Very interesting seeing the responses of everyone who liked the scene. Seems like a lot of the positive judgments comes from Silco doing badass underworld boss things in the scene, which I totally get. But the sentiment I cannot get behind, but DO find really fascinating, is the justifications for the scene based on what it accomplished for LATER -- ie what it achieved for Silco's character or the worldbuilding or themes relevant for OTHER scenes after this, but not in this one. It takes a lot for a scene to NOT NEED the essentials (eg relevance, stakes, nuance, dynamics, etc) in the moment the viewer experiences it, and purely stand on what it accomplishes later. When the Force Awakens came out, I encountered the same sentiment. I seriously disliked the movie and half the positive arguments I heard for it focused on what it set up for in future movies, and I was again bewildered by that kind of justification when the movie itself couldn't stand on its own. Arcane is FILLED with scenes that carry HUGE significance for future scenes, but the writers always gave more than enough attention to the scene in its own right that it pulls its own weight. This chem baron scene does well in what it accomplishes outside itself, but my criticisms are about this aspect: that it's weak in its own right. Even my disconnection critique isn't about the audience's experience of the surrounding scenes, but the impact of the disconnection as this scene happens. Ofc, in a cursory way, I feel like I'm in the right here. But the more I see this sentiment, the more I wonder if it's just a way of taking in stories that's completely different from my own current experience. My theory is that a certain kind of immersion fully takes the story's word on whatever happens, almost like watching history unfold. So with a high level of immersion going into a scene, even scenes that don't necessarily measure up to "writing rules" carry the weight of "being what's REALLY happening NOW in this world I'm immersed in", which make things interesting even if (and especially) they diverge wildly from patterns/expectations. But then in contrast, the way I take in fiction is maybe less immersive compared to this, and aspects I find weak or random or undeveloped I just don't "accept", because I have a preoccupation with all the options of how to change every story aspect I'm seeing. I also sensed this with the later seasons of Game of Thrones. For some fans, the ending for example was too much, but for so many people I talked to, the ending was just "what really happened", and since they were never thinking of how to change things, that actually made the experience more exciting and dramatic for them. Anyway, I'm more and more intrigued each time this comes up. Love reading all the comments as always! Keep it up! (Especially if you disagree with me!)
I have the feeling that the scene is good but everything other than Finn and Silco/Sevika is too forgettable for the theoretical importance of the scene, I don't mind Silco being a cartoon villain here because it felt he was acting, like they did not deserve complex character Silco, the scene is at the same time too big of an introduction hook for the chem barons and too small to give them the context they need.
I really feel like you picked and chose which comments to process. Half of them told you why the scene was great as a self-contained scene, and this comment instead focuses on seemingly random points the majority of people never said. This scene was largely well-received, established Silco as a static character, needed to be set in the location it was in (requiring 'needless' travel to said location), advanced both the immediate and potentially future plots, was a direct result of story beats leading up to it *and* provided a self-contained story - all of which was perfectly illustrated in the wall of comments you seemed to miss - then the scene was absolutely on par with the overall quality of the show. It was not an "objectively" bad scene, or even the "worst scene, but still pretty good." To be clear, I do not blame you for missing the complexity of the scene. It did not land with you, and you asked yourself why. You did make some valid arguments, and proposed a hypothetical way to do it better. The problem I have is not with the video, but this comment itself. Several people gave you very detailed reasons why the scene landed for them, fleshed out misconceptions you had about the scene's purpose, theme and, most importantly, relevance and necessity to the story. In response, we got this comment, which lacks the critical thinking I have become quite fond of from your content. It felt like a twitter-grade double down that ignored valid arguments to single out the weakest among them. Then again, maybe that is just my take and others will disagree.
@@peaceandloveusa6656 Sounds like I'm making a subtler point than you think I'm making. The strengths you're listing are all in that same category I'm talking about: effects of the scene as it relates to the larger story, not strengths of the scene in and of itself. My criticisms were not about purpose or effect, they were about what was lacking in the experience of the scene. You can have a scene that establishes character or develops character or furthers plot goals or accomplishes worldbuilding, and it can do all of these things WELL, but still be a weak scene in and of itself: eg for being too tropey, not investing the audience enough, undeveloped characters, etc. For me, the scene has to land first in that regard in order for any of its effects to matter. Once you're in the realm of "establishing" "demonstrating" "advancing", that will only matter to me once the scene stands on its own experientially. Something off about the way you're thinking this comment fits into the larger discussion too that's sounds like it's causing you to take offense somehow. Sorry you feel that way, thought we were all just sharing opinions here
I really disagree with one point in particular, setting it in the bar would have destroyed the meaning entirely. The point was that they had grown fat and happy in the fresh air of topside, Silco was bringing them down back to his level with the fissure gasses, and shown that Silco himself despite have all the power, wealth, and influence remained with the people of Zaun. It’s to show the difference between Silco and the Chembarons. The Chembarons are only in it for themselves, they don’t care what happens to the Undercity so long as they profit from it and live comfortable lives. Silco genuinely wants to help the Undercity in his own way and won’t leave them down in the sumps.
You know that the series is earth shatteringly good when a scene like this , one that could be a highlight for many series, is considered it’s weakest scene
Considered weakest by who? A guy who ran out of video ideas to make so he is trying to be all negative because his last few constructive videos didn’t get the attention he wanted.
@@shadowgamer4306 and criticized by a guy who can't provide a legitimate criticism except calling someone a crybaby? Think you need to watch the video again, or find something better to do with your time ;)
One thing I think was missed about this scene. Silco's inspiration for gassing them came from Jynx. She gassed Sevika and immediately following that he uses the same strategy on the chem barrons.
There are a lot of mirrored mannerisms between Silco and Jinx in Act 2 and 3, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Jinx actually got the idea of gassing Sevika from Silco. Maybe something she'd seem him do before.
It's supposed to tell the viewers he's still the same brutal crime lord that he was in the first episode, that Jinx didn't make him soft like everyone seems to think she did. It's to reaffirm the idea that he's still very much in control and quell the doubts people may have. If we didn't have this, seeing him come to the realization that he lost control the moment he hugged Powder would not have hit as hard as it did in episode 9 when he was talking to Vander's statue.
Yeah, it achieves this effect and totally valid that it supports other parts of the story in this necessary way. But "necessary" and "good in its own right" are two separate evaluations for me.
@@schnee1 What I feel too is it is a annoyance : The business part of his life is trivial and he is confident in his abilities It's literally a mandatory sidequest to him despite the fact that the others chem barons seems to have enough control on the city to have to meet them AND remind them what place they belong to
I actually really liked this scene with silco showing how far theve come and how complacent everyone but him seemingly has become. Deepens his character even more than it was already.
Right. This was my take. This wasn't a cartoon villain making his lessers grovel. This was the only Zaunite in the room showing the posers that they're posers. He's a real Zaunite while their complacency shows that they're no better than Pilties in Zaun cosplay.
Same. Silco's power is that he does nothing petty or half way. Watching Silco calmly tear a new one with top thugs was fun to watch and made me respect him more
I think this also shows that Silco is not "Slipping" as everyone including us seem to think due to enabling Jinx actions , he is still the mastermind and strong underworld boss he has always been I think this also plays into Sevika show of loyalty later on , he didnt kill the Chem Barons but put them in place , keeping his bussiness strong and running instead of weakening it by killing them and having to replace them or starting a gang war since all of them are strong gang leaders on their own , showing that he still thinks ahead of the game and is not ruled by emotions , giving Sevika the security that he is still the best bet around
yeah it's showing that silco remembers how things were and how far they have come and how much further they can go. Finn is essentially trying to be little finger from game of thrones but is trying to be under handed with someone who is far out of his league in terms of how people respect silco. Silco is a great Villain because he really doesn't seem outright evil, he wants things to be better for the undersiders. But his idea of how to handle things are violent and more us vs them driven.
The scene was supposed to emphasize that, despite all Silco's power and privilege, he's still immersed in the undercity. These other crime lords got a taste of power from him and immediately started living like topsiders in an ivory tower, but Silco genuinely loves the undercity and never left, to the point that he's the only one in the room who can breathe its air. It emphasizes that he's not just another crime lord, but a man wholly dedicated to his hometown and his aspirations for an independent Zaun.
Exactly. So many people overlook everything that Silco says in this scene. The fact that he is still accustomed to breathing the toxins shows us that he’s still down there in the trenches. Meanwhile, all of the other chembarons aren’t used to it anymore. Loved this scene
He may have aspirations but he hasnt taken action against piltover, in fact he’s working with piltover police. Its been years and years and he’s just sitting around making life worse for zaunites
@paulcruz168 he may not be working with piltover as a whole, but you can't deny that he had been working with their chief for quite some time. Not that Marcus had a choice in the matter, but that doesn't change that they were cooperating with eachother on the regular (screw Marcus btw).
One of the things I liked about this scene is showing the similarities between the other barons and Piltovers leaders, it shows me that Silco IS Zaun, maybe he doesn't look it like Snake Boy does, but he shows us here that he lives it, literally BREATHS it, none of Zauns other so-called leaders do. This scene made me feel more connected to Silcos goals in fighting for Zaun
Yeah the fact he was uneffected by the gas just shows he DID and still DOES live that reality he reminded the others of, that while they grew complacent and fat with piltover he still lived in the hardships of zaun just like they all once did.
Yep, i think his dislike of the meeting also shows how much he cant stand his Zaun. These are the people hes put in power, and what are they? Basically Piltoverites, theyre too used to the clean air and too divorced from the ground. Their room is up in the sunlight and gold and white to contrast Silco's office in the depths of the city.
I would argue that the fact that Silco is *annoyed* with meeting the chem barons made me intrigued for the meeting. His interaction with Sevika with their tone of voice changing added a bit of seriousness. Because until now, he seemed to have a grasp on controlling the undercity. This is a side of Silco we hadn’t seen yet, and it spirals for him from there, trying to regain control, and deal with Jinx, and deal with catching Vi and Caitlyn, and deal with Marcus slipping, etc.
Exactly how I felt. It's one of the only times we see Silco sound annoyed and tired and seeing him like that made me feel that it was important. I do see how it could make others find the scene as a nuisance, but it did intrigue me, even if not as much as the other scenes
I also loved Silco’s annoyance because I think it’s an emotion people can really empathise with, especially given the context of this scene - everyone understands that feeling of something you don’t want to have to deal with, in particular that feeling of dread/frustration that comes with needing to attend an annoying or pointless meeting
Same. As much as I enjoy the crazy stuff that happens in the show it felt good to slow down and see that Silco, while top dog, still has to deal with the pressures of being a crime boss. Yeah he's evil and definitely can't be allowed to win in the end but the scene reminds me he's still human, that the world won't stop and wait for him to solve his (family) issues, and that even if Silco falls there are others who would happily try to seize power in the vacuum he'd leave behind. I wouldn't call that weak.
Yes, exactly! Things are unraveling for Silco and we see him dealing with these things personally. Jinx has gone rouge, Vi and Caitlyn need to be dealt with, the chem barons are unhappy, Marcus is keeping important information from him. These are problems that "tropey" villains don't have to deal with, or are dealt with easily. We see Silco putting in boss level effort to hold things together. This is another delicious parallel between Silco and Vander. Part of Silco's arc is that he grows from not understanding Vander to basically becoming Vander.
100% agreed! This scene made me curious about what was to come next. The audience automatically reflecting whatever emotion characters on screen show, seems over theoretical and does not account for narrative nuance. In any case, I do not at all think it applies here.
I actually loved this scene. "The arc is literally skippable" Yeah. For the first season. Chem-barons play a significant role in the political landscape of Zaun. And with Silco out of the picture, the chem-barons are gonna fight over the power vaccuum left behind, on top of Piltover getting ready to move against the undercity. The scene not only introduces the chem-barons but also expands on the world-building surrounding them and their relationship with the undercity. But personally, the reason why I loved this scene is because Silco's decisions made absoulte sense. The chem-barons were becoming unruly. If he didn't address it, Finn would've gained major influence on the chem-barons, and with it the undercity as a whole. So Silco does what he has to do. Gassing the room up serves triply as a power-move, a threat and a reminder of what life used to be like before Silco elevated them into their current positions and the role Piltover played in their previous struggles before Silco came along
The biggest issue I have with the critique, or the "BAD" is that you've taken a setup scene and you've judged it without properly observing it's payoff. 'Undeveloped characters'? Dude, you were just introduced to them . Caitlyn had fuck-all screentime in the first act and now she's one of the key players. 'Detour plot'? Has it ever occurred to you that they were introduced in the final act to set up the next season? If they needed to play a more significant role in the season entire, maybe they would've been introduced a lot earlier? As for the 'cartoonish villainy', may I suggest observing the benefits and/or shortfalls of Silco's decisions rather than the superficiailities of how interesting or uninteresting his decisions are. You can have Silco do the most interesting thing in the world, but if it's not in character, then you f*cked up as a writer. His decisions make sense with his motivations and goals. If you understood his other options, you'd know that gassing up that room was the best and only option he has in that moment
Honestly a big issue I have with Movies on a personal level is how they have to be so self contained to be considered great. It's why I'm a huge fan of the MCU. I much perfer ongoing narratives that are fine-to-great or cartoony with tons of interesting looking characters over a great self-contained story that leaves me with nothing to do afterwards.
I was going to make a similar post but you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I think Schnee finds politics and business boring (more or less in his own words). Great video, but I think he's not appreciating the scene because he's focused on the characters more than what they represent. We can't get a back story on everyone in the whole world but we want to learn more about the world and how it functions outside of the primary and secondary characters (e.g. we get a sense of how big Zaun is in that Silco can't just be the crime lord that controls the lanes. It's a whole city with a lot going on because that's more realistic. I mean, he is in control but the scene shows us how he does it and how far his control goes. Without that I would just be wondering the entire time how exactly Zaun functions.).
@@HxH2011DRA congrats I guess, but up until the most recent spider man movie, the marvel films have been....fine (at best) for years. Because they're pretty much all the same, just with different characters, they're very predictable and you kind of already know what the "big plot" is going to be once they finally connect the 20 whatever movies they made for the current "phase". It's not particularly clever writing, and that's the problem. They're not movies. They're basically long TV episodes. Every once in awhile an episode will be super good but the rest of them are Just fine. Because 'movies' are supposed to be self-contained unless they're trying to make it like a trilogy or something. But it's supposed to be a self contained story, so maybe you just don't like movies or maybe you just haven't seen any really good ones. And that's a damn shame, if you are looking for recommendations though, I know some pretty good movies, my dude. Mind you this entire response is assuming that you actually get how significant Arcane is, right like this show is a masterpiece in storytelling and writing. So if I did give you a few recommendations for movies it would be based on those merits. I say this because your comment is only talking about movies and the MCU which has nothing to do with this video.
@@aaronmillette763 I don't think he finds politics or business boring. I think he has a more superficial expectation of how the characters should behave. He sees Silco and expects "complex character writing" but sees him threaten a room full of minions and conflates it with 'simplistic cartoonish villain character writing'. While I'm sitting here going "No. This is the right move. This is clever." What do you expect him to do? He can't ignore it. Because then their discontent will grow and someone like Finn will use that dissatisfaction to take power away from Silco. Silco knows this. Which is why he doesn't ignore it. He can't appeal and beg them to trust him. That makes him look weak and that he doesn't know what he's doing. A weak mafia boss is a dead mafia boss. Silco knows this. Which is why he doesn't play softball with them. He can't just kill all, some or even at least one of them. Because if he kills at least one of them to 'show strength', it's only a matter of time before one of the chem-barons thinks "Well if s/he's dead, how long will it be before he kills me?" Silco knows this. Which is why he spared Finn. Not because he's merciful. If killing Finn would help him keep the other chembarons in line, he would never have given him the mask. But it wouldn't keep them in line, so he keeps Finn alive. So the best option is to show strength without killing them. But he can't just go "If you don't listen to me, I'll suffocate y'all". That makes him sound petulant and childish. So he frames the threat as a reminder of how things used to be. Which is genius. His shifts the subtext from "If you don't follow me, I'll kill you" to "If you don't follow me, Piltover will kill you. Which is why you have to follow me." That's some sexy-ass nuanced writing. So while I'm watching this high IQ political maneuver taking place in front of me, rivalling Mel Medarda's scheming, I'm genuinely confused as to why all schnee sees is a 'cartoonish villain'. Like, what?
I actually really like this scene it's just such a total power move. And to end it with "Good meeting." GOD DAMN Silco is just a class act. You hate him, but you love him cause he takes care of Jinx, but you hate him cause what he did to her family, but you like him cause HE GOT THE POWER MOVES MAN. He is the embodiment of "a villain who doesn't need to yell, is scarier than ones who feel the need to yell." It's why villains like Scar, Darth Vader are PETRIFYING because they are scary with just their mere presence. I also like Silco's reaction when she sliced up Finn. He doesn't just act like nothing happened. He has a very human reaction to almost being murdered. Again.
@@DarkR55 Nope I mean The Lion King Scar. Yes in the end he does get shouty and yelly, but the entire point of his character is that he's charming and manipulative and you don't be CHARMNG by screeching out orders lol. It's why Vader only yells like twice in ANH and that's it never again ever until Kenobi which felt very weird and off putting
Well I think you made some real good points and I totally agree that Silco is an embodiment of a villain that doesn't need to yell. And is while physically strong rather unimpressive compared to everyone around. Being elegant and smart as his main attributes, being so cunning and outclassing everyone around while being at a massive disadvantage just because of your sheer wits. That makes for some of the most memorable Badasses in my opinion, it kinda is the complete man that doesn't do the macho stereotypes when you first look but really embodies it. Makes me think about Tommy Shelby in Peaky Blinders and Ragnar Lothbrok in Vikings who basically carried that show. Always being in control and calm with that look in their wild eyes. They all got that stare and that extremely calm exterior but you know they are the coolest and that every second they can erupt in extreme violence and assert control if they want to. Tom Hardy also had this as does Mads Mikkelsen and others but they are amongst my favourite actors for this reason and all have played good or bad extreme badasses. Silco is not as "perfect" physically as mentally but he definitely would destroy a lot of physically more impressive characters. But that being clearly the boss in the room without others even knowing while you see all the signs is just epic and Silco has it.
Your forgetting how Silco, as he chokes the Chem barons, monologues about how they came from a world where there was never go around and how the Barons have become fat and complacent implied to be like the council of Piltover, which adds to his persona as a complex villain . Just saying, i think you make somewhat valid points, but I think the Chem Barons will be more developed in season 2.
This scene: -Shows Silco as a genuine Zaunite in touch with his roots -Shows Silco as a ruthless crime boss who doesn’t let Jinx make him soft -Shows Silco “playing with his food” like any good villain should -Shows Silco in a genuine leadership role and convinces us that his “Nation of Zaun” could actually work -Makes a connection to the Enforcers through the breathing metaphor -Sets up Sevika’s big slash
First of all, I reject the premise that a central character's reaction to a scene necessarily means you feel the same emotion in the same way. Annoyance, boredom, or disinterest can motivate interesting behavior and consequences. Sometimes you have a "wait. What?" moment where the emotion seems strange, and the question of why they're like that is dramatic. As for Silco choking the chem barons, that wasn't uncomplicated villainy any less interesting than the rest of his character. At least it was more complex than you made it seem because he was trying to make a point about the disconnect between the chem baron's mentality and his. He just did it with a cartoonish villain aesthetic, adding a new layer to the trope in a way that's in character, which is exactly the right way to use a trope.
Ohh this makes it a useful scene to show how things and people, aren't always what they seem. Our first impression of Silco was a scary cold bad guy that has no empathy, that gets flipped by revealing more sides of his character, especially through his interactions with Jinx, so he's still very consistent and exactly the same character, it's once we see the full character instead of one side we realise how complex he really is. Finn from his introduction and character design looks cool, powerful, levelheaded, but through this scene we see how weak he truly is
This also makes me consider how Silco is following the advice he gives Jinx, to “be what they fear”, so this trope villainy is an act that he puts on to keep people in their place 😯
i find very interesting in terms or character what the scene portrayed, that silco can still breathe contamined air without a cough and how it represents his direct conection to the working and lower class, like a leader humble enough to understand his people
I'm not sure enough "humble" and "understand" but it is a really good observation! I was wondering why he didn't need a mask but used it for three seconds before giving it to Finn. I get that it was a power move, but what more does it tell us? That he doesn't need the privilege but takes it anyway?
I think he probably was still affected but can deal with it better than them?, it helped him to show them that he is doing what he’s doing for Zaun and not just for himself.
I love everything about arcane, but I felt kinda jebaited that the "enemy" music video showed powder and Ekko being friends, but we didn't get that in the show. Young Ekko and Powder never even interact, which is a shame since the things we got from the music video look so sweet and it would have set the scene on the bridge up way better
It also would’ve made their fight a lot more obvious and predictable. If they’d established a relationship like that before, we all would have expected them to meet up again. And the fight would have just referenced things we’ve seen already instead of showing us new things like it does. It was really cool to realize the significance and history of the fight during the fight
@@randomname191 well put. That's just one of many things that made it one of the best damn scenes I've ever seen in anything, ever. I mean they essentially told an entire backstory and tied it directly to the current, albeit tragic state of the relationship between two of the most important characters. With almost NO dialogue, and they did all of that in like 3 minutes. Goddamn amazing, honestly.
@@jordanfelt5978 yep. It’s weird that one of the things I hear people say is a flaw in the show the most often is actually part of what makes one of the best scenes so great and so unique
@@randomname191 I can't say I've heard specifically that more than like once, but I can relate. And if you've seen a lot of other movies or perhaps TV shows that require you to do some thinking for yourself you'll understand it.....It's because way too many people don't seem to have the ability to think for themselves and it's really sad, honestly. They believe whatever their particular news outlet says and they can't understand a movie that doesn't outright explain everything to them. Like, remember when inception came out and how "confusing" the movie was even though it was amazing? Yeah, It's not that confusing, it's really not, you just got to fill in some of the blanks for yourself and you are good to go.
I want more videos about things that aren't positive or negative like this, it helps a lot at the point I'm at in my writing. I know how to avoid the mistakes, I know what I'm aiming for and how to structure but I don't know how to make those things engaging. I think we need to talk more about the scenes and movies that are just "fine" and how to make them better not as a criticism of the original but a tutorial for the writers that are stuck at just "fine"
@@schnee1 I feel that to go from "bad" to "fine" you just have to care enough. But to go from "fine" to "great" you have to care enough, and work at it for years. Honing your craft, writing fine story, after fine story, constantly working to make each one better then the last (or re-writing the same story over and over again). Only then will you start writing great stories.
I liked that scene, because, at least for me, the tropey villainness was actually a good touch in order to remind the audience that Silco isn't just a dad for Jinx, he's an actual mobster with a twisted worldview who have done and will do terrible things, sometimes just for the sake of exercising cruelty.
I was going to say something similar. Not sure if I'd heard it before as a fan theory or writer idea, but it does help remind the audience about his darker side.
@@LifeEnemy We do get plenty of smaller touches throughout the season that convey Silco's villainy. Namely, the fact that his Shimmer factories are full of child workers (Episode 8) and we get a scene of him handing out drugs to the populace of Zaun in the trench when he confronts Vi and Caitlyn (Episode 6). Plus the scene of Silco blackmailing Marcus in his own home, presumably in Piltover, and him bribing Marcus to frame the Firelights and get the Piltover Council off his trail. Silco gassing the Chem Barons in Episode 7 still works, but it's by far his most overt action of villainy since the time skip. I can see why people view as a bit heavy-handed.
The chambaron meeting is a reaction to the border shutdown. The shimmer factory gets destroyed and the chembarons are right there again, saying: now we lose shimmer? Jinx gonna fix this issue aswell? I think that part was well done.
I was looking for this exact comment. The creator of this video seemed to miss this speciffic point. There was a connection and tension building up, reflecting Silcos and other characters actions as well, Finn is there as someone who is power hungry and preying on possible mistakes. Silco handles it perfectly with the gas, every detail on the scene shows us (and the chem barons) that he is the one in charge. This is also the build up for the part when Silco is at his weakest and still, Sevika chooses to stay loyal to him. His reaction, her reaction, and the choices they all make in the following segments add a whole lot to their characters.
I like the idea of showing young Fin in Act 1, but I disagree to an extent with your analysis of the scene. Silco's annoyance doesn't set me up to be annoyed with the scene, but intrigued. What could annoy a character that's as cool, collected, and ruthless as Silco? Also, I don't see Silco's handling of the Chem Barons as any kind of character regression, because the show has made it clear that when it comes to Silco's relationship to power, he hasn't progressed at all. It's not a regression because there's nowhere to regress to. Silco may love Jinx and treat her as his daughter, but he's still the same man who holds power through manipulation and threats that he always was. To me, Silco is a character who doesn't really grow throughout the series as much as his largely static character gets revealed as events happen around him and he responds to them.
Agreed! People mistake Silco as someone who "used to be" cruel and bad, then "became" loving when he adopted Powder. That isn't true. Silco was always a loving person and adopting Jinx only showed the side of himself that was already there. And Silco remained a cruel crime boss all the way to the end, even while being a loving and loyal father. His major transformation and growth happened BEFORE the show. When Vander's betrayal and murder attempt transformed him into the monster he is now. But I wouldn't say he is a static character during the show, he still grew in a smaller way - he finally managed to understand where Vander was coming from after all those years.
Honestly think it's hard to understand Silco's character without this speech. not impossible, you could still cut it out potentially, but it makes it far to easy imo to characterize him as a completely dark character outside of his love for Jinx. Thing is (something about him many still don't get unfortunately) is that for Silco power is the means to the end, not the end itself. Understanding that is the difference between recognizing his love for Jinx & the Undercity vs writing it off, and it is solidify here where he faces off the Chem Barons. Perhaps THAT'S why the scene communicates annoyance; Having to explain that this complex character that you've written isn't just power-hunger can be a necessary but annoying detour. But as my favorite author once said you've got to enjoy the little detours to the fullest because that's where you'll find the things more important than what you want.
Right? I I didn't think the speech was corny at all because it reflected what people in that environment would want to hear. The speech is something people can get behind. It's politics. The scene helps us to understand why people follow him.
But schnee said that in its way of fixing the scene he would keep the speech... This villain trope is not about the speech itself, but doing a monologue while you impose power by near-death.
In retrospect after Season 2 Part 1, I think this scene was supposed to show how in control and powerful Silco is and how the Chem Barons are LITERALLY nothing without him.
I took it as they were showing that even silco has to answer to someone. "there are bigger fish than silco". the sequence of scenes also set up Sevika's finale. it shows that everyone respects her and in the finale song, she's seen recovering in the office by the empty throne. either she becomes the bigger fish or she chooses the next ruler. without those scenes, she might have less clout.
silco answers to no one though, he was showing that these new money types that the old money (himself) had to climb through the mud and breath the toxic air, and he was showing them what they would be without him. choking on the smog and wilting like that beutiful green house.
These are great ideas but your second idea wouldn't work for one major reason. You can't have the chem barons in the undercity because that defeats the whole point of the scene (and the silent worldbuilding of Zaun). The point of this "penthouse" where they're meeting and the whole point of Silco's dialogue is that they are living ABOVE the toxins of the undercity and it's made them think they're superior. Logistically, they couldn't go into the last drop because they'd be coughing and choking the entire time because it's been so long since they've set foot in the undercity. I'm pretty sure Silco's cannisters aren't even filled with poison, just literal air from down below that they aren't used to anymore. And the penthouse they visit is an intentional part of the worldbuilding with the hierarchies going on in Zaun. There's great concept art of it and everything.
Did you miss the part were Finn dies in the last drop? And he spoke to Sevika there with no problem. The cannister was filled with poison because even Sevika needed a mask too.
@@salia3542 It looked to me like it was just very concentrated air from the downside. Grayson could breath without a mask too for some time, she was still wearing one for the rest of it.
Before even going into this video, I want to comment on the aprehension VS excitement thing for character responses to upcoming events: Silco's "this is a nuisance" only carries if you consider Silco the only actor in the scene. When I first saw the prelude to that scene, I didn't hear Silco's boredom - I heard the contrast between Sevika's delivery, which I felt was a subtle but pointed "hey this is serious" and Silco's dismissal of the same. This builds up under the distance that is growing between Silco and his people, here showcased (again) by Sevika, before we're even introduced to the chembarons.
I also really liked this scene XD it's a moment this late in the season for Silco to be a cartoonish villain again, putting his cartoonish henchmen back in their place. At the same time it's a solid setup for the Chem Barons to return in season 2, more organized as a gang and more developed as characters. All of your points about Finn specifically though are on-point. Finn stands out as underdevloped to me because he's supposed to be the voice of the Barons, but the show just didn't have enough time to delve any deeper into him.
Huh. Hard disagree on this one. It's one of my favorite moments for Sevika, and I like that Silco gets to trounce on some of his peers. It fleshes out the world a little, even if it was too little too late. Maybe the difference is that I'm not so automatically opposed to Silco? I don't generally mind that Silco rose to power since it seems to have brought some good along with the bad, so I'm more invested in his business doing well than you seem to be.
oh also, I loved the Trade Federation stuff in the Star Wars prequels. I know it's popular to condemn them but I enjoy what George was trying to say with them about raging capitalists, and we got introduced to the Trade Federation almost right away, so what else would we care about?
@@sabrina0013 I'd usually find that appalling, but then again I'm an arcane youtuber who never played league. (If you tell me you liked Rogue One though, fair warning: i WILL be appalled.)
For me the gas scene was awesome. His subordinates had forgotten how hard life was before Silko changed everything in the undercity . Notice Silko isn't wearing a mask because he has lived his entire life accustomed to the terrible air while the others in the room are rolling on the floor because of it . It tells you about his life, it tells you about his relationship whit his subordinates, it tells you how far he is willing to go for change. A brilliant scene!
I think Finn could've even been one of the kids Vi and Co beat up. It could've shown him he needed to grasp for whatever power he can, however he can. Could've been how he hurt his jaw
I do like your suggested changes, except for the Last Drop one. I think, while throwing the meeting in the Last Drop would, as you said, give it a bigger sense of stakes, I think it would kinda destroy the first impressions we're supposed to have about the Chem-Barons. We are SUPPOSED to find the Chem-Barons as sorta a leech to Silco. Why? Because, in League and in the universe overall, a majority of Chem-Barons ARE leeches. They're not respected and yet have power over the Zaunites. Even Renata Glasc is dismissive of Chem-Barons herself, even as one of them. To quote her; "Most Chem-Barons are just lackies who failed upward." But most importantly, I think the environment is more important in giving our impressions of these Chem-Barons. You see Silco and Sevika going up the elevator, exiting the fissures of Zaun into this immaculate room, sun shining through, clean air readily available, plant life growing all around... A greenhouse almost. With life, plants, carefully cultivated, providing clean air and oxygen. The environment is there to subtly show us that these people, despite being Zaunites, aren't living like other Zaunites at all. They're disconnected, both from the sense of suffering Zaun has and from the causes being fought for; they're more Piltovan than Zaunite, with their clean air, business sense, and modern sense of fashion. Silco even comments about this, but the environment is there to help give weight to what he's saying. If he gives the same speech in the Last Drop, we don't really know what he's talking about because we don't know these characters; upon seeing them for the first time in the depths of Zaun, we aren't assuming they're living any different than other Zaunites, and thus gives Silco's monologue here less meaning, and gives us a 'tell don't show' situation when we can't really have one. But I think these scenes will be far more important come S2 when the power vacuum in Zaun becomes an issue. Sevika is surely next in line, but I don't think that'll last for long, and the Chem-Barons will likely be making plays to try and gain power. By that point I think we'll get a few more fleshed out Chem-Baron characters.
I think this is a fair critique. While I initially agreed that the Last Drop would be good to add to the importance of Chem Barons, I think this high rise location is actually important on its own right. It also fits the trope too of fancy surroundings for people of fancy standing. I just think then that the location should have been established earlier in the show, maybe in the prologue episodes. This would make it so it doesn’t just feel like a stereotypical high-rolling high-rise like I sort of mentioned before. That may be part of why Schnee dismissed so readily, because it primarily exists within that trope. Maybe Vander could mention that it’s a place known as the play area for those few disconnected by wealth from his more wholesome rule of Zaun, and that he doesn’t bother visiting. While Silco mentions he’s been making overtures to the rich there to support his bid for power. This would also complicate the substantial prologue part of the show by showing further symptoms of Silco’s rule having further appeal. It would move the power dynamic out of just being Silco vs. Vander. Showing that there are divisions based on class in Zaun earlier, and we can wonder how the rich changed to chem barons. It also shows how Silco changes, going from beseeching the idle rich of Zaun to being annoyed by them due to his power and growing Vander-ish characteristics. Or simply show it earlier in the various Zaun montages in the second half of the show. A montage shot of the Chem Barons meeting there mixed in with the sizzle reel we get of Zaun when Vi visits after prison.
Your analysis definitely holds water now that we have season 2, the Chem barons are more important and the angle of the under-city air being toxic is even more important with the grey.
I honestly felt this scene, and his complacency towards meeting with the chem barons was the start of them turning Silco's new leaf over, and start to make him sympathetic as a father figure for Jinx. So I think his "annoyance" is more his pre-occupation with something more important. We're SUPPOSED to feel uninterested in this meeting because he is, because his mind is on something more important. His daughter, Jinx. This is also why Sevika has her moment, because they're starting to draw this father-daughter parallel more and more as this third act starts.
Honestly, this could have been one of the best scenes in Arcane due to couple of interesting things: 1) The Chem barons act as a “Council” for Zuan - showing how power can creep up when society progresses technologically. The council is similarly underdeveloped, it acts as a set piece almost. Treating it like a set piece, like a chore that Silco is doing in the background while in conflict with Sevika, would have worked. It’s also nice to make the audience reminded again that what we see about Silco’s ambiguity and emotion is the exception, and 90% of the time he’s this incredibly ruthless individual. 2) Finn works well as a parallel to Mel; young, stylish, mysterious, cunning -> it could have been a way to show how Mel would not have made it far in Zuan, and how unfit she was to make decisions about Zuan. Likewise, if Jynx mirrors Jayce then Silco mirrors Hiemerdinger. Silco’s “don’t forget where you come from” mirrors Hiemerdinger’s “never again”. Whereas in Piltover change and progress is needed to help people, in Zuan change is used to control them. The Finn vs. Silco and the Hiemerdinger vs. Jayce/Mel being explored at the same time would have fit nicely thematically. 3) Seeing a couple of tough characters react scared to the mention of the Chem Barons, would have made Silco’s boredom kinda badass, and possibly a source for hype.
I like your "negative" videos a lot especially because you suggest how you'd approach to changing it. Like, it's one thing to say this wasn't good because this this and that. But it's way more interesting/constructive/informative to think about how you'd try to make it better. Thanks for the awesome video!
Here i am, atleast a year late to the party giving my opinion that is probably never read. 1. I think that scene is very important for reasons quite invisible at first glance, the most important one, we would have a major plothole if it didnt to some extend exist (the extend is arguable): Silco didnt really took over the underground, he brought the already somewhat reigning crimelords together to work in somewhat of unison. So in status silco is just ever so slightly above them, therefore if all this trade block caused by jinxes actions happened, it would not seem right for the chembarons to sit around ideling for long since their own buisness is their own and not silcos, but yet is it severly impacted. 2. The scene also gives us more insight about silcos background, when he released the toxin that made all other chembarons choke, he revealed that it is the same toxin that was all present in the underground when it was little than a mining colony of piltover, the point where his and vanders revolution started. Furthermore we see that this toxin doesnt make silco choke, he is used to it because he was exposed to it for many years, which he also directly declares to finn (the pathetic one). 3. For a third point, this scene also introduces the viewer to the chembarons for the first time, they arent named yet at this point, but are later fleshed out somewhat in the first season, atleast finn and renni are, finn was the naive yet ruthless upstart that dared silco, renni was the mother of the kid that was killed when jayce raided silcos factory. Not much characterisation for sure yet this is only the first season you cant expect tertiary villains to already be fleshed out at that point. The scene also tells us that silcos operation is indeed nested in a larger set of communities, there are leaders powerfull enough to demand answeres from silco when the shit hits the fan. I agree with you that it was one of the weaker scenes of the show, it showed silco performing a physical powerplay, which is really not what he is good at. However the season still gained much from this seasons the point i brought up covered: 1. worldbuilding, 2. history of silco, 3. worldbuilding / setup. These points i think are enough to warrant this scene to put in. I apologize for any grammatical or spelling mistakes, english isnt my native language but i am in love with arcane and the universe it is based on, so i made this comment anyway.
Now this scenes makes a lot more sense after watching the first act of season 2. The reason why the underworld or Zaun fell into chaos is because the other chem barons started fighting for power after Silco, their leader, was gone. This scene showed us the power Silco had of the underground since all of these factions seem powerful themselves. And it shows that when he left it all devolved into chaos because of these people. Had Silco not been their leader the underground would be in a constant civil war.
The one thing I dislike about the show is very niche. Surprisingly enough, I don't like Vi in Arcane that much, not make because she is a bad character (Vi is an AMAZING character), but because I can no longer look at Vi in LoL or LoR. I can't enjoy the "One Girl Wrecking Crew" because all I see is a girl who lost basically all of her family. This problem I specifically have also extendens to Ekko. And I know that Arcane is not technically cannon (which is a real missed oppurtunity), but the characters in the show are so good that they end up affecting the characters outside the show.
you should go read the short stories in runeterra and other character sources. Vi in League And Arcane are great fun characters, but its difficult to say that a character in limited media (for LOR and LOL) to have as much depth as a character in expanded media (arcane)
I definitely think the scene could've been done in a more powerful and captivating way (even if I could never produce such a scene), but I think some of the suggested reworks presented take away some key elements that really add to the ultimate goal of the scene even if it may make it feel more interesting in the moment. I agree that one major limitation is that we need to make the "villains" feel / be weak, but I think there are other things that help set the tone as well Fix #1 Commentary: In my opinion the fact that we don't know these characters and we don't really care about them either is actually pretty important. That might sound counter-intuitive, but I think even the tiniest of hooks detracts, however slightly, from the feeling that we're supposed to get from this scene. It isn't a scene about these "villains", it's a scene about Zaun, about Sevika, and about the Silco that the undercity knows rather than the one we know. We've spent a lot of time with Silco, but we see the real him. Clearly this wouldn't be the case for most people. They see the front that he puts up. The "cartoony villain Silco" appears here because that's what he wants villager A (or in this case Fin) to see him as. And this lack of understanding is what leads to Fin's downfall. He's not an important part of the plot. He's just some guy who sees this cartoony villain Silco at the top and thinks he can take over. Thinks he's got what it takes to become the new top dog. Little does he know that the Silco he sees isn't the real Silco, and that Sevika who stands by his side isn't going to see the same qualities in Fin, because Fin is fundamentally weak and unimportant. Not just physically, but also mentally, politically, his drive, everything. He. Is. A nobody. Fix #2 Commentary: I actually think you're spot on with the concept of this one. I think this scene could have more of a reason for existing. It works fine (if a bit meh) as just another meeting, but it would make more sense why this overthrowing business is coming up now if we had some kind of reason for it. Ultimately it's still important that Silco sees it as tedious, though. We don't want to lose that feeling of this is just another day in the office for Silco, even if it isn't for the Chem-Barons. For that reason I don't know about the whole last drop thing in particular, but some kind of stakes from the Chem-Barons' perspective would be a good idea imo. Fix #3 Commentary: It's hard to say much about this one because it really fundamentally changes the scene to the point that it's not really the same scene / arc anymore in my opinion. It's hard for me to say whether it would be more or less engaging with the current version vs the proposed version unless I see it in action in a more fleshed out production. Ultimately what I can say is that I don't feel the need to uproot the scene as is, even if it is a bit boring (which it is, especially on a first watch, I'll admit that).
I think you could have still gotten across that he is a nobody who only sees the cartoon inside of Silco while still putting in an Act 1 hook, and I personally always found the scene extremely entertaining, but on absolutely everything else I agree 1'000'000%!
I really loved Finns design, especially looking at the visual similarities he has with his voice actor Miyavi. Too sad we didn’t get to see more of him….
I really like this scene, it serves many goals. It expanded the world, introduced secondary villains, and set up consequences and the foundation for Sevica's and Vi's arcs. But most importantly, it reinforced the complexity of a character and reminds us that Silco is not only a father to Jinx. She has been his primary concern since the beginning of the second act. He was basically running around town fixing her messes, trying to kill off threats to their relationship, making therapy sessions with her, taking her to the doctor, etc. But this scene has nothing to do with Jinx. It's about his business, ideology, and power - all important things to him, and he deals with it as a ruthless sociopath. Without this scene, it would look like Silco was completely transformed by Powder's hug, and now even if he doing something horrible he just acting like a papa bear protecting his kid. With it, you can not help but wonder if a guy this cold is even capable of love, making his choice in the final less certain and more impactful.
to be fair Finn called Jinx a Dog so he kind of deserved it XD (And Silco was visibly pissed at the comment too so it does tie back into the daddy bear element just the tiniest bit~)
@@HxH2011DRA well, now we all know where his true loyalty lies 😏 However, back then it seemed as annoyance at the underling daring to question his decision.
@@tj3603 the scene also served to show Silcos convictions are stronger than the others who are just money hungry. Silco actually believes in something greater than mere money and hasn't forgotten what hes foghting for while the others grew spoiled.
I guess this scene was not originally written in the show,it was added later according to Amanda‘a interview.She said the episode 9 we see actually used to be episode 8,they saved the original episode 9 to the season 2,so they had to add some scenes to expand the original episode 8 into two episodes ,and i guess the chem barons scene is one of them
@@schnee1 You and your fanboys are the only ones who felt this was disconnected from the entire show. Everyone in the comments doesn’t see any issues in the scene.
I think the chem barrons act as a foil for the council in piltover. In a way, the fact that they don't really 'feel' like a council shows us the disconnect between the political nature of Zaun and Piltover. It's almost like a parody/sattire for the way the council acts e.g. attempting to make deals like in the scene with Finn and Sevika, gathering in a 'fancy-looking' place for an audience, etc, only for everything to go wrong, appear 'immature' as in they cannot do this well. It might be a bit of a stretch, but the foil idea could also imply the meeting between Caitlyn, Vi and the council, and how that played out. Overall, it's as if the chem barrons are trying to recreate the idea of power in Piltover, but because Zaun and Piltover are so different, they fail.
Precisely this and to add on to what your saying this is why Silco has such a problem with Piltover wannabes, despite ironically being so much like a topsider himself!
finn is a leader of assassin organization, the fact he died just like that is quite confusing;also fun fact, the old man in a wheelchair is in charge of surveillance organization; the lady is the leader of escort business, they are oligarchs, monopolize all the businesses in undercity that's lucrative; and they all deal with shimmers
I think this whole group of scenes is going to be used as a foil in the next season. It’s pretty clear that with Silco gone, there’s going to be a power vacuum. It is mentioned that there are “bigger fish” than silco, so this scene if anything is just the prelude to this.
Only thing I wish we got in act 3 was a scene with Jayce and Cait where he addresses her using his name and status for her own goals. He brushed it off to Marcus but I doubt he was just all chill about it. At the very least a brief "Hey, why did you do that?" And Cait answering would have been nice.
@@ROB-cj4kq no doubt. I'm not saying Cait was wrong, but it's one of those things that has a (most likely) simple solution but feels wierd as a loose end.
Now this scene has become a lot more impactful in retrospective after season 2, introducing both the chem-barons and the gray, and giving us insight into the power struggle at play there
I feel like if they had introduced Finn earlier in the show, even as a side character for one scene, they could have given him a jaw defect. It would make him a foil to Victor as a kid disabled due to the pollution in undercity, but during his glow up he actively sought power and recognition in a way Victor was to quiet or self conscious to do.
@@finezyjnafantazja2495i mean it could still work, Finn sought working around his defect with tried and true augmentation via steel (aka "what's kept us going through tough times") and Viktor looks beyond that with Magic thanks to his influence from Jayce/Piltover? Its an idea to entertain for sure bc it seem like it could lead to a more nuanced outlook. Plus on top of that it described more about the character, Finn the boy who used to have no voice and Viktor who felt stuck in place.
I think the changes you suggested are pretty extreme. I think that there are 3 minor changes that improve this scene in a way that benefits the story and avoids adding extra characters that muddy the waters. 1. Have the chem barons brought up in conversation ideally between Silco and Jinx in the early parts of act 2 possibly right after the Shimmer shipment scene. To make it more impactful you could even have one of them probably Finn discussing business with Silco as Sevika walks in and have Silco dismiss him with a nonchalant hand wave and a "we'll finish this later" in a tone that reflects this discussion isn't worth his time. You could even have Finn look kinda miffed as he walks out to show he feels disrespected but not in a position to do anything about it. The scene then plays out as it normally does except before Silco asks jinx about what happened with the shipment she asks why he even bothers with the chem barons. He replies that they are a necessary step for an independent Zaun. This separates Silco from the Barons in that they see running the undercity as the pinnacle of power but shows that Silco has more lofty goals that puts him in step with them but also above them. They are developed in how they fit into the new version of the lanes, Finn is more fleshed out but still below Silco. 2. The scene before the meeting keep almost exactly the same where Silco says he doesn't need another headache except have Sevika respond that this meeting is important to maintain a united front or something along those lines. This raises the stakes of the meeting but also shows that Sevika is still focused on the bigger picture while Silco is focusing on Jinx and has not realized yet that he may eventually have to choose between his goal and his daughter. It also hints at a slight separation between Sevika and Silco. 3. Keep the meeting scene the same except when Silco looks to Sevika to start the gas, have her hesitate then have her unleash the gas with the slightest of sighs. When it cuts back to Silco have Finn's eyes be looking at Sevika (clocking the slight hesitation) before coughing and looking back at Silco. This may seem like cartoony villainy but this is Silco putting on a performance to show his priorities have not changed even though internally they may have whether he knows it or not. Having Finn clock Sevika's hesitation tells him and us that this act may not be as true as it seems and there may be a crack in the loyalty that Finn can exploit, which is why he goes to Sevika to turn her against Silco. This then plays out exactly like it did with Finn's plan failing and Sevika staying with Silco but makes it more of an uncertainty until she kills Finn.
@@mr.unkownxoxo Very true but the amount of times I've watched that is so unhealthy that my brain is going insane making myself to burntout Yeah its just me expression my shit
Bold of you to assume I wasn't rooting for Silco politically. But I agree with the fixes, it would have been stronger to have it happen at the bar. Would've loved that parallel.
No. It had to be up higher than the bar to signify the chem-barons rise above the rest of the city and their 'entitlement' to fresher air compared to the air down below
No, setting it in the bar would have destroyed the meaning entirely. The point was that they had grown fat and happy in the fresh air of topside, Silco was bringing them down back to his level with the fissure gasses, and shown that Silco himself despite have all the power, wealth, and influence remained with the people of Zaun.
I always hate the “character eavesdrops on a conversation and walks away before someone can clarify what they said” thing. Like with Powder in episode 1, Vi and Mylo are talking about Powder. Mylo is complaining that Powder can’t do anything, and Vi replies with “You know what Mylo? You’re right. There’s just a bunch of things Powder can’t do.” Powder hears this and immediately leaves, only for Vi to say right after that Mylo complains and picks fights with the group etc. I never really understood why people did this, and it always makes me frustrated.
See, I initially had the same reaction, but I've always hated the trope because it's so often used as a contrived way to create artificial conflict. When Powder first overheard that conversation, I was worried the writers were going to have her blow up and hold a grudge against Vi or Mylo. Instead, she internalized Mylo's words (notice how he's the primary antagonistic force in her hallucinations). She mentions his criticism in the later conversation with Vi, but it's handled in a much more realistic way.
Vi not only clarifies later that she meant well but also ends up helping her feel better about what happened. The scene was not the misunderstanding trope moment and said trope isn't even meant to be the interpretation of the scene. What happened here is that we got to see that although Powder, like any child, is hurt by criticism of that kind, she doesn't actually take it seriously until it comes from Vi. The only time Vi says something she sees as judgemental or belittling and she doesn't try to leave the room/conversation is in episode three when Vi punches her and calls her a Jinx but Powder doesn't leave because, as she says herself in the scene, she needs Vi. And I'm sure it's obvious why her reactions to judgement depending on if it's Vi or not is relevant as Jinx lol.
Gotta disagree with your first point, about Silco’s annoyance translating to us. If anything it makes us MORE intrigued to know how bad the assembly must be to compare with Jinx’s chaos (which also created such “headaches”, and was extremely entertaining).
While the scene shows a power move from Silco, I always wondered why Finn just stands by, begging for the mask, when he is clearly much stronger than Silco and could just have taken it right away. It's also a bit far fetched that he would end up on the ground from the suffocating gas while Silco is completely unaffected when even Sevika dons a mask. It's also hard to believe that the other chem barons would just remain seated in such an event. Still a fun scene to watch, and I was looking forward to it because I wanted to know who it was that annoyed Silco that much. ;)
Personally, my least favourite scene is the "playroom" scene with Marcus' child and Silco. It just feels... Pointless. It drags, it's boring, it doesn't build tension. It almost insults your intelligence with it posturing about "oh so threatening!" and I just couldn't care less. It's like they wanted to humanise Marcus but only had "father" as his character trait aside from "bad cop". This scene is... Passable. It's fine, I think it's alright. It's cool to see Silco assert his dominance and while it's totally not the best I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as watching Silco cringily knock the house of dominos down
I remember being so upset that finn got k1lled off because i liked him for the design even if there wasnt much to him yet. but because he kinda showed up out of nowhere and then got taken out that quickly i was just disappointed and couldnt get too attached.
You say this scene is Silco being a cartoony-villain, but how many cartoony villains do you know that'll walk into a room full of rebels, choke them out, and then...just let them live after he made his point. A cartoony villain would've used violence and intimidation to make his point. What did Silco do instead? Object lesson. Any violence that Silco leveraged in the scene was secondary to him having an actual argument that he felt they could understand. "I should lead Zaun because I'm the reason we have clean air." But here's the weird thing. Silco does make a very cartoony threat in the scene, but its not where I think you think it is. The cartoony threat Silco makes is not with the gas. Its not with the gas mask. It is in him not wearing one. Not using one. Silco's threat to Finn was simple: Don't drag me back to the way Zaun used to be. Don't make this cutthroat. Cause if you bring us back to that world of toxicity, you won't be able to stop me. And he did it by not using a gas-mask. By just standing there holding one, and making it clear to Finn that while Finn couldn't stand the toxic air, Silco -could-. And then to really drive things home to Finn, Silco casually kicks Finn, partakes a breath, before passing his gas mask to Finn. I.e., this clean topside world is mine, and I welcome you into it, as long as you yield.
I like the idea that it happens at the last drop, but remember that the chem barons are the only ones who have gotten to accustomed to fresh air, it would be even more powerful if everyone else in the last drop were barely affected by the gas
I Love this scene. It shows how people tend to forget its bad origins when they are at good position. They forgot their position and should be reminded. Silko has this serene consciousness despite being fully crazy and has some ingenious way of showing his way of thinking.
in the first fix, what if finn, becomes the leader of the kid group Vi beats up, they were clearly trying to seize control on that entrance to the udnercity, that would clearly communicate his desire for control, and we can even add a little scene when we are seeing the first wide shot into the undercity, to were he scoffs at vi and them vi makes a mean face and he rattles away, that could be a very interesting setup for him
Personally I love the chem barons scene because of sylco being annoyed at this pathetic character, for me it reminds me a bit of the sylco taking jynx to the river with his metaphors about reminding people where they came from, but I do get the it is a very cartoony villain style I do agree if it was taken out it wouldn’t change much but I still like the scene for sylco using the past to possibly kill their future for me it fells very metaphorical in his own sylco style metaphors but I can also see that it didn’t have a massive point in the whole story
i think the entire point of that small arc was to show how the chem barons, who can easily be inferred by the spectator to be mafia bosses, are simply irrelevant in front of silco. silco is technically one more drug lord just like them, and yet he's trampling them. later the climax is about showing how sevika is not just a mindless obedient henchman, and how the powerful silco is vulnerable. i consider that the power of a character can only ever be as impressive as that character is vulnerable. for example, guts in berserk might be wielding a sword heavier than him like it's nothing, and show time and time again prowess of superhuman strength, yet because of how vulnerable he is, he still gives off that feeling of human limits, which make his feats and power all the more impressive. some characters feel like they don't desserve their strength, like it's just an arbitrary number written by the author. some characters feel like they desserve their strength, worked for it or made sacrifices, and now are getting that payoff. and finally, some characters feel like they shouldn't even be able to attain that sort of strength, not like they have some "pushing past their limits" gimmick, but like they are breaking they are breaking universal laws. in some instances, silco gives off that feeling, he's not just a mastermind or manipulator, he actually pulls it off, ruling over zaun, a place were even the strong get eaten by the stronger, and he does it and dominate people as a man who can't even fight.
Well it's not thrilling, it's humanizing. He's humanized by showing him try to terrify his people but we're meant to feel for him that he Has to have this talk with them.
The 3rd fix is definitely the best. Shows a bit of contrast between Finn and the father and it doesn’t take that much more time in the story itself to have this extra character who plays a relatively small role.
I think the chem barons were put there to plant seeds for season 2. With Silco dead, and Jinx being a solo operative more or less, it is those same chem barons who will be running the underground in season 2. I imagine when they were writing this scene, they were initially going to develop the characters more, but basically decided they'd have all of season 2 to do that so it would be a waste of effort to do it now.
For the fashion section I was thinking the same thing in terms of the subliminal messages of his characters appearance and how it supports his role. The snake tattoo. The Jaw Mod-he’s reinforced only by his mouth. Other things I noticed as well is his hair being shaved on one side gives him 2 different profiles. I think this could represent how he’s “two faced.” In loyalty. Same thing with his jacket. He wears it only half on. I interpreted that as symbolism that he’s only got “one toe” in the water…like it’s a representation of his lack of commitment and it hides his body just like he hides his true intentions. The lighter. He want’s to burn it all down. I also love how the lighter moments in Arcane often represent a deal being “sealed” or are an insinuation of the direction the loyalty paths are going.
I actually this scene. It's a very clever way to flesh out the relationship between Silco and Sevika, who shows here that she's more than just muscles and making ugly faces. Finn is a prop but he serves the purpose wonderfully. Plus, I like how it shows that Silco is not a business man but an idealist disguised as a business man. I don't totally agree with the nuissance idea. Meeting the chem barons is not "we need to do the laundry because we are out of clean socks" but a consequence of everything in this part of the story going south for Silco.
I love your channel and how deeply you analyze stories in such a intricate but simplistic way, but one of my favorite things is your visual gag for stakes.
This scene's main purpose was to show how much Silco raised Zaun in its history. He roleplays that with the gas attack and playing resources with the gas mask. The chem barons were just there to act as NPCs. The head chem baron guy is just there so Sevika can show loyalty to Silco. These characters dont need development, theyre just free pushes for the main cast.
Came now after season 2 ( first 3 ep ) I can't say they 100% fixed everything with this scene BUT they did put to good use Now this scene acts as an introduction to the Chem barons and compares how negligible they are under Silco's rule and Sevika's at full strength VS how central and threatening they are after Silco's death
Silco’s disinterest in the meeting didn’t at all make me disinterested in the scene to come, it showed Silco is a man who is so wrapped up in his own world, that he doesn’t have interest or time in things “he” deems unimportant. It shows his status. When those doors open and we are presented to these new, extremely visually pleasing characters, with this giant growth looming behind their table, it successfully expanded to world of Arcane and what we can expect to see in the future. I didn’t know these new characters, but I WANTED to! The design is so powerful and adds SO much to the world building! And I viewed everything as a power play. This scene shows unrest within the ranks of Zaun, yet Silco will show up and forcibly bend everyone back in line. The scene shows how ruthless and powerful Silco is within a matter of minutes. It shows he’s fighting for Zaun, yet will not tolerate people that don’t believe in his leadership. Powerful scene in many ways.
I've not seen this sentiment echoed anywhere else so I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion or not, but I actually felt that the big climactic fight of ep3 (where Vi, Milo and Claggor are trying to break Vander out) actually went on a bit too long. I remember watching it and loving it, don't get me wrong, BUT I though there was a few too many "darkest hour" moments. You know, - First they break in and set about freeing Vander, but then Silco's goons show up and things look hopeless. - But then Vi actually starts beating them up and winning, but then the shimmer goon turns up and things look hopeless. - But then she retreats and holds him out long enough for the rescue to start going well, but then Powder sets off the bomb, killing Milo and Claggor and things look hopeless. - BUT THEN a freed Vander goes and starts fighting the Shimmer goon, but Silco stabs him and throws him off the walkway and things look hopeless. - BUT THEN! Vander injects himself with shimmer, surviving long enough to actually beat the shimmer goon & get Violet out. Now all of these were utterly badass and everything, but it was just too much in too short a timeframe, and every "darkest hour" moment & recovery lessened the impact of the next one. After a while I was actually just waiting for it to end. But yeah - it's easy to say, but I don't have a good idea for restructuring it as nearly every beat was important to have (assuming Vander's shimmer use comes back in a later season).
I think the whole point was to make the audience question the outcome. At first we all guess that it's a trap but surely they can make it, everything after that is just to make the viewer question how bad it can get and eventual answer is "worse than you imagine" and it works.
I fully agree that there were too many "Darkest hour" moments. The moments before Vi picked up the Gauntlets or when Silco stabbed Vander were definitely important, but the whole "This'll be a very short reunion" bit was trying a bit too hard.
I personally loved this scene. We are now seeing more of Silco's "softer" side at this point. It shows that he's still ruthless at his core. Also, he's hella badass. dealing with a threat without even batting an eye. It also shows that despite how far he has come he is still very humble. (being able to deal with the toxic air) I think the idea was that eating was meant to be secret because these people didn't have the nerve to face Silco face to face. They went behind his back and if Silco didn't deal with it they maybe have been able to get their nerves up to face him. So yeah. He could just ignore them. but he dousn't want them to think they can get away with it. So yeah, it's just a bother to him because they are not a threat to him. (at this point)
Maybe from a very technical film school perspective its not the scene you would put there but for what its trying to be its so good. Silco is fascinating because hes fighting for Zaunite independence... alone. Its not a movement, not a revolution (yet). Its just him. He is constantly trying to manage both Jinx and his business while also scaling his ideological pet project of recreating Zaun. For the scene to be a "nuisance" for Silco says a lot. Its another layer of how he cares for his people in the abstract but materially he couldn't give 2 shits. He spends his time talking about loyalty and the strength of the people of Zaun but then distributes shimmer and drops his business to the ground. The scene is also in episode 7, we are finally at the point in the story where Silcos priority is beginning to shift towards Jinx. This being an afterthought meeting not only worldbuilds but conveys how unimportant they are to him now. At the start he was all business and all talk. Now hes just throwing words to the chem barons whenever they show up and actually taking action to forge Zaun and save Jinx. In 2 more episodes hes at the point where hes willing to drop his entire production of Shimmer at the drop of a hat in order to get the Zaun he wants. It conveys so much that this dosent matter to him because a few episodes earlier it was the one thing he was concerned about
My biggest issue with Arcane is I feel we needed one more episode. Specifically with the characters as kids. Id also add the way Mylo and the Clagger died was too abrupt and felt too plot armor/arrow. Personally I think we needed half an episode more with them as children to really establish the connections, specifically with Echo and the other kids, there's a hint but we don't actually see anything. Id then dedicate the other half of an episode to in between the time skip, specifically Id kill Clagger in the factory scene but keep Mylo alive as he escapes Silko and doesn't get captured like Vi, then we see a shorter time skip where Jinx is with Silko and we have Mylo and Echo together beginning to form the Firelights and we have Jinx kill Mylo here. I feel seeing her more directly kill Mylo would show more of her spiral and also aid in the actual spiral itself, plus it would explain why Jinx's version of Mylo she sees in her head is older than when he died. Most people who experience extreme trauma with loss don't age up the person they loss with them, they normally remember them exactly how they were when they last saw them, but we clearly see an aged up Mylo in the Guns for Hire scene and with the Mylo Doll Jinx made. I'd also like to add in the other hinted at moments that took place in the time skip here such as Cait joining the enforcers, Jace creating the teleporters, Echo creating the hover boards, the mad scientist guy creating the specific version of Shimmer he gives Victor. Do a little more show don't tell, give us a little more time to feel invested in the kids as kids, and make Mylo and Clagger's death less abrupt and plot arrow like. Those two kids only died because they needed too, but absolutely no one else died, not even the juiced up guy who was the actual target of the bomb. That's why I say plot arrow not plot armor, if everyone but those two kids had plot armor Id say more so the kids had plot arrow. I just feel it was way too cheap to have only them die, have them die so quickly and frankly Final Destination style where they only died because it happened to line up just right. But then literally no one else did, not even the random henchmen on the bridge. Random henchmen don't get plot armor
But the juiced up guy DID die And ps the mad scientist guy's name is Singed. I don't think they ever once say his name in arcane, you either need to have the subtitles on or just know LOL lore
@@castlesteinway7741 the juiced up kid didn't die. Vander killed him when he got all juiced up and then he only died when he jumped out the window saving Vi. The actual Hex crystal explosion that killed Clagger and Mylo ONLY killed Clagger and Mylo. Just felt cheap to me, the only other causulty was Sevika's arm. Which never made sense to me because her arm is vaporized but the nameless henchmen literally on the bridge are just fine but they're closer to the explosion.
Was writing a whole ass essay but i was kinda going nowhere so i'll kinda summarize why this is one of my favorite scenes: -It shows that Silco is still the cold and calculating crimelord he was -With his ability to breathe the bad air it shows that unlike the others he's never taken his position for granted -It's a powerful display of authority against characters we don't know/care about, meaning that their reactions can be tailored to be exactly what makes it feel the coolest -It's a good parallel with the council on the topside, specifically with the situation where Jayce had a target on his back, showing 2 ways of resolving that situation -It's a great set-up for later scenes -It expands the undercity from having just one 'leader' to a whole 'council' -It makes it clear that if Silco keeps messing up there'll be people trying to take over his throne
it does it's job of conveying how silco is being percieved at the time, because of his delays and attitude change influenced by jinx, and how from the eyes of the newer generation of the undercity he is starting to look weak. at the same time, it highlights silcos' experience leaving him on a similar yet different position as vander (he saw what happened, he stuck with the undercity in his own way, and now a newer generation, in this case of the mafia, thinks they know better). On that regard, it works on it's own with what we know up to that point, it highlights silco's set of beliefs and the difficulties he has to deal with while jinx is on her ownn madlab doing things and kidnapping her sister lol. Now, on top of that it subtly makes you feel for silco, how time didn't stop for him once vander died, it shows a snbeakpeak at how and what he has to handle, and what are the stakes. The cherry on top of course is how it compliments the moment at vander's statue, but it works on it's own up to here. On that note, i do think you may be a little misguided about the "good on it's own" idea rom what comes before or after. The showing of a gun under a table doesn0t have to a whole arc in itself; a series works as a whole, not just scene to scene. And could a new viwer skip it? i mean, sure, but then the undercity and silco are left a little hollow honestly, this scene for exammple mirrors vander's situation discussing with a newer generation on what to do in a day to day basis under pressure, now this is silco's context and way of things, a parallel, it connects with with the whole theme of paraleles betwen silco and vander that the series sets up. you can skip it just like you could skip every scene with vander and the enforcers and just go straight from the initial heist to the last fight + vander's death, or skip the concil and just know that some weirdos plus mel made certain decissions eventually, but that's not how a series works. Besides, it is a good scene, it shouldn't be skipped, it build upon the undercity silco sevikka and their inner workings, and just for the voice acting and animation it already is worth watching What i could empathise with is a guilty pleassure of wanting to see more of finn, but i think if they didn't show more of certain characters it's really a matter of time, not every character can get a full fledged arc in a short series with as many characters unless you count several seasons. They would have had to introduce him earlier, dedicate more on screen time to him, or leave his story to continue in season 2, but i think honestly he is a fine secondary character, i actually appreciate that there's a big main cast, but it doesn't go from main to freaking npcs straight away, there are characters like finn that make the whole thing feel more alive, and the series has enough "big" arcs as is.
I think the problem was that nobody cared about Finn's character, just having him in more earlier scenes would have been all that was needed so he would be more compelling
Funny you mention that Finn reminds you of a snake, considering he is voiced by Miyavi, who (together with PVRIS) is the artist behind the song Snakes, which was played during the Hextech-weapons-fight scene with Jayce and Vi. I wonder if that is a coincidence or intentional...
What stuck out to me after thinking about this scene was how Zaun was becoming just like Piltover, in the sense that the chembarons were worried about making financial losses just like the council members. Both of their trade routes were "blocked", for the chembarons it was the bridge and the council it was the Hexgates. Ironic how Silco wants to free the undercity from Piltover's oppression when he is causing it himself as well. There is now a class divide WITHIN Zaun (the chembarons at the top and the shimmer addicts at the bottom).
I don't like fix #2 since it would have the viewer believe that the conflict between silco and the chem barons has already escalated to a point where they would invade his home, while the scene in question is only the introduction of the chem barons. That would mean in order to apply fix #2 we would have to establish the chem barons way earlier and have a conflict between them and silco brewing which then reaches it's boiling point at the last drop. Which would mean more changes to previous events...
This scene is actually one of my favorites in terms of character development. To me, Silco was a nuanced character behind the scenes, but in terms of his goals, he was a bit cartoony supervillain UNTIL this point. Sure he says he wants to rise up against Piltover to bring freedom to Zaun, and we see why Piltover sucks for the undercity, but in terms of how he operates, we just see him bribing people and dealing drugs as he makes money does other shady stuff. He is just a mafia boss. He is a typical megalomaniacal, power hungry opportunist. But then this scene contrasts him with the chem barons. And I actually did find myself rooting for one side over the other, because this scene showed me that, hold up, Silco DOES actually stand for something. And as evil as he is, he truly believes in the virtues of his cause, while surrounded by greedy worms just trying to ride his rising star into personal enrichment. Unlike the others, Silco isn't trying to leave the undercity behind because it's a dump. He wants to transform it because it is a part of him. HE still lives in the undercity. HE still breathes the undercity. HE literally has undercity flowing through his veins, something that his eye is a badge of. When watching this scene, I realized NO ONE is more undercity than Silco. And I started to share his disgust for the chem barons. Greedy and sniveling, but necessary pawns that need to be reminded of their place. And so yeah, I rooted for Silco. Because as indefensible and evil as so many of his actions are, he is basically Zaun's champion.
Wow. 100% agree with this! The best villains are the ones that believe they're the heroes. I love how you said he's basically the embodiment of the undercity and literally has undercity in his veins.
Have your opinions evolved more with the new season, when taken as part of the whole? There is more to it but the fight with Smeech, the infighting between the barons, and the assassination attempt on Jayce by Renni would have less weight if we were less familiar with the barons.
I think the "solutions" you gave were not very good honestly, the dad thing is very like cliche-y daddy's boy takes up business typa deal. I think its great that it happened in that weird room because it's somewhere that Silco is supposedly not in control, but he shows how much he actually is in control of everything. Bringing the gas and being a threat in an enviroment that isn't yours shows a lot of control. I thought the scene was sick as hell, the speech was cool and I just really liked this scene in general, when I watched it it gave me chills
Fun fact, to confirm the editing out and no difference part, when I watched Arcane for the first time I accidentally skipped that episode, I didn't realize I skipped anything until I realized Ekko stuff
I think the point of the chem barons was to establish what the undercity is like now. We don’t like it, along with Silco. The meeting takes place in a high tower above the dank depths that people continue to suffer from. Like a flower spending too much time in the sun. The barons are pathetic because Silco thinks they are pathetic. He sees them as pawns. His true people are the people of the sumps. Not these pigs. But he needs to exert his control over them to keep his financial resources for the war against Piltover.
About the connection point (fix 2) let me give you a tiny example as to how important and massive that fix could have been. Until I watched this video I had _forgotten_ that this scene happened before Jayce and Vi attacked the factory. I remembered it existed but the "when" was foggy, so I remembered the Chem Barons were upset with Silco and my brain put 2 and 2 together. "Oh right, Jayce and Vi just destroyed one of their Shimmer production facilities, of _course_ they want to have a _totally_ innocent (completely not innocent) 'business meeting' with the man who just let this happen." Then the video reminds me that it _didn't_ and then proposes what I thought had actually happened as a fix. Got a little bit of whiplash there but it really hammered the point home. Even if it was an inviable fix.
The scene happened shortly after Jace ordered a lockdown of the bridge and travel so it makes perfect sense. The talk between Sevika and Silco also happened immediately following a scene of Mel and Jayce talking about a council meeting showing that Silco is a mirror or foil to Jayce at the time. It was the perfect time for the scene as it showed that Silco's grasp on everything was beginning to slip and that the other crime lords would look to replace him if it wasn't fixed soon.
Very interesting seeing the responses of everyone who liked the scene. Seems like a lot of the positive judgments comes from Silco doing badass underworld boss things in the scene, which I totally get. But the sentiment I cannot get behind, but DO find really fascinating, is the justifications for the scene based on what it accomplished for LATER -- ie what it achieved for Silco's character or the worldbuilding or themes relevant for OTHER scenes after this, but not in this one. It takes a lot for a scene to NOT NEED the essentials (eg relevance, stakes, nuance, dynamics, etc) in the moment the viewer experiences it, and purely stand on what it accomplishes later. When the Force Awakens came out, I encountered the same sentiment. I seriously disliked the movie and half the positive arguments I heard for it focused on what it set up for in future movies, and I was again bewildered by that kind of justification when the movie itself couldn't stand on its own.
Arcane is FILLED with scenes that carry HUGE significance for future scenes, but the writers always gave more than enough attention to the scene in its own right that it pulls its own weight. This chem baron scene does well in what it accomplishes outside itself, but my criticisms are about this aspect: that it's weak in its own right. Even my disconnection critique isn't about the audience's experience of the surrounding scenes, but the impact of the disconnection as this scene happens.
Ofc, in a cursory way, I feel like I'm in the right here. But the more I see this sentiment, the more I wonder if it's just a way of taking in stories that's completely different from my own current experience. My theory is that a certain kind of immersion fully takes the story's word on whatever happens, almost like watching history unfold. So with a high level of immersion going into a scene, even scenes that don't necessarily measure up to "writing rules" carry the weight of "being what's REALLY happening NOW in this world I'm immersed in", which make things interesting even if (and especially) they diverge wildly from patterns/expectations. But then in contrast, the way I take in fiction is maybe less immersive compared to this, and aspects I find weak or random or undeveloped I just don't "accept", because I have a preoccupation with all the options of how to change every story aspect I'm seeing. I also sensed this with the later seasons of Game of Thrones. For some fans, the ending for example was too much, but for so many people I talked to, the ending was just "what really happened", and since they were never thinking of how to change things, that actually made the experience more exciting and dramatic for them.
Anyway, I'm more and more intrigued each time this comes up. Love reading all the comments as always! Keep it up! (Especially if you disagree with me!)
I have the feeling that the scene is good but everything other than Finn and Silco/Sevika is too forgettable for the theoretical importance of the scene, I don't mind Silco being a cartoon villain here because it felt he was acting, like they did not deserve complex character Silco, the scene is at the same time too big of an introduction hook for the chem barons and too small to give them the context they need.
I really feel like you picked and chose which comments to process. Half of them told you why the scene was great as a self-contained scene, and this comment instead focuses on seemingly random points the majority of people never said.
This scene was largely well-received, established Silco as a static character, needed to be set in the location it was in (requiring 'needless' travel to said location), advanced both the immediate and potentially future plots, was a direct result of story beats leading up to it *and* provided a self-contained story - all of which was perfectly illustrated in the wall of comments you seemed to miss - then the scene was absolutely on par with the overall quality of the show. It was not an "objectively" bad scene, or even the "worst scene, but still pretty good."
To be clear, I do not blame you for missing the complexity of the scene. It did not land with you, and you asked yourself why. You did make some valid arguments, and proposed a hypothetical way to do it better. The problem I have is not with the video, but this comment itself. Several people gave you very detailed reasons why the scene landed for them, fleshed out misconceptions you had about the scene's purpose, theme and, most importantly, relevance and necessity to the story. In response, we got this comment, which lacks the critical thinking I have become quite fond of from your content. It felt like a twitter-grade double down that ignored valid arguments to single out the weakest among them. Then again, maybe that is just my take and others will disagree.
@@peaceandloveusa6656 i mean i agree but chill
@@peaceandloveusa6656 Sounds like I'm making a subtler point than you think I'm making. The strengths you're listing are all in that same category I'm talking about: effects of the scene as it relates to the larger story, not strengths of the scene in and of itself. My criticisms were not about purpose or effect, they were about what was lacking in the experience of the scene. You can have a scene that establishes character or develops character or furthers plot goals or accomplishes worldbuilding, and it can do all of these things WELL, but still be a weak scene in and of itself: eg for being too tropey, not investing the audience enough, undeveloped characters, etc. For me, the scene has to land first in that regard in order for any of its effects to matter. Once you're in the realm of "establishing" "demonstrating" "advancing", that will only matter to me once the scene stands on its own experientially.
Something off about the way you're thinking this comment fits into the larger discussion too that's sounds like it's causing you to take offense somehow. Sorry you feel that way, thought we were all just sharing opinions here
I really disagree with one point in particular, setting it in the bar would have destroyed the meaning entirely. The point was that they had grown fat and happy in the fresh air of topside, Silco was bringing them down back to his level with the fissure gasses, and shown that Silco himself despite have all the power, wealth, and influence remained with the people of Zaun. It’s to show the difference between Silco and the Chembarons. The Chembarons are only in it for themselves, they don’t care what happens to the Undercity so long as they profit from it and live comfortable lives. Silco genuinely wants to help the Undercity in his own way and won’t leave them down in the sumps.
You know that the series is earth shatteringly good when a scene like this , one that could be a highlight for many series, is considered it’s weakest scene
Considered weakest by who? A guy who ran out of video ideas to make so he is trying to be all negative because his last few constructive videos didn’t get the attention he wanted.
@@shadowgamer4306 and criticized by a guy who can't provide a legitimate criticism except calling someone a crybaby? Think you need to watch the video again, or find something better to do with your time ;)
@@shadowgamer4306 unprompted and unnecessary
Basically the meme of Strongest soda drinker vs weakest water enjoyer
@@def3ndr887 exactly
One thing I think was missed about this scene.
Silco's inspiration for gassing them came from Jynx. She gassed Sevika and immediately following that he uses the same strategy on the chem barrons.
There are a lot of mirrored mannerisms between Silco and Jinx in Act 2 and 3, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Jinx actually got the idea of gassing Sevika from Silco. Maybe something she'd seem him do before.
How did you spell jinx's name wrong
@@alphabloodpaw3233 Maybe they were thinking of the Pokemon?
More likely Jinx got it from Silco. Her father.
It's supposed to tell the viewers he's still the same brutal crime lord that he was in the first episode, that Jinx didn't make him soft like everyone seems to think she did. It's to reaffirm the idea that he's still very much in control and quell the doubts people may have. If we didn't have this, seeing him come to the realization that he lost control the moment he hugged Powder would not have hit as hard as it did in episode 9 when he was talking to Vander's statue.
I have understand that too
Yeah, it achieves this effect and totally valid that it supports other parts of the story in this necessary way. But "necessary" and "good in its own right" are two separate evaluations for me.
@@schnee1 What I feel too is it is a annoyance : The business part of his life is trivial and he is confident in his abilities
It's literally a mandatory sidequest to him despite the fact that the others chem barons seems to have enough control on the city to have to meet them AND remind them what place they belong to
@@schnee1 Yea, but also said if they removed this scene and other scenes with Finn, it wouldn't matter.
@@valmiro4164 I believe I said a new viewer could skip these scenes and not realize anything was missing, not that they had no effect.
I actually really liked this scene with silco showing how far theve come and how complacent everyone but him seemingly has become. Deepens his character even more than it was already.
Would’ve been cool to see some political infighting between small Chem-Baron factions are pro Silco, meanwhile others are anti Silco
Right. This was my take. This wasn't a cartoon villain making his lessers grovel. This was the only Zaunite in the room showing the posers that they're posers. He's a real Zaunite while their complacency shows that they're no better than Pilties in Zaun cosplay.
Same. Silco's power is that he does nothing petty or half way. Watching Silco calmly tear a new one with top thugs was fun to watch and made me respect him more
I think this also shows that Silco is not "Slipping" as everyone including us seem to think due to enabling Jinx actions , he is still the mastermind and strong underworld boss he has always been
I think this also plays into Sevika show of loyalty later on , he didnt kill the Chem Barons but put them in place , keeping his bussiness strong and running instead of weakening it by killing them and having to replace them or starting a gang war since all of them are strong gang leaders on their own , showing that he still thinks ahead of the game and is not ruled by emotions , giving Sevika the security that he is still the best bet around
yeah it's showing that silco remembers how things were and how far they have come and how much further they can go. Finn is essentially trying to be little finger from game of thrones but is trying to be under handed with someone who is far out of his league in terms of how people respect silco. Silco is a great Villain because he really doesn't seem outright evil, he wants things to be better for the undersiders. But his idea of how to handle things are violent and more us vs them driven.
The scene was supposed to emphasize that, despite all Silco's power and privilege, he's still immersed in the undercity. These other crime lords got a taste of power from him and immediately started living like topsiders in an ivory tower, but Silco genuinely loves the undercity and never left, to the point that he's the only one in the room who can breathe its air. It emphasizes that he's not just another crime lord, but a man wholly dedicated to his hometown and his aspirations for an independent Zaun.
Exactly. So many people overlook everything that Silco says in this scene. The fact that he is still accustomed to breathing the toxins shows us that he’s still down there in the trenches. Meanwhile, all of the other chembarons aren’t used to it anymore. Loved this scene
He may have aspirations but he hasnt taken action against piltover, in fact he’s working with piltover police. Its been years and years and he’s just sitting around making life worse for zaunites
@@sfglim5341he's not "working with" the police. He's bought them all out.
Something which could've still been shown better.
@paulcruz168 he may not be working with piltover as a whole, but you can't deny that he had been working with their chief for quite some time. Not that Marcus had a choice in the matter, but that doesn't change that they were cooperating with eachother on the regular (screw Marcus btw).
One of the things I liked about this scene is showing the similarities between the other barons and Piltovers leaders, it shows me that Silco IS Zaun, maybe he doesn't look it like Snake Boy does, but he shows us here that he lives it, literally BREATHS it, none of Zauns other so-called leaders do. This scene made me feel more connected to Silcos goals in fighting for Zaun
Yeah the fact he was uneffected by the gas just shows he DID and still DOES live that reality he reminded the others of, that while they grew complacent and fat with piltover he still lived in the hardships of zaun just like they all once did.
Yep, i think his dislike of the meeting also shows how much he cant stand his Zaun. These are the people hes put in power, and what are they? Basically Piltoverites, theyre too used to the clean air and too divorced from the ground. Their room is up in the sunlight and gold and white to contrast Silco's office in the depths of the city.
I would argue that the fact that Silco is *annoyed* with meeting the chem barons made me intrigued for the meeting. His interaction with Sevika with their tone of voice changing added a bit of seriousness. Because until now, he seemed to have a grasp on controlling the undercity. This is a side of Silco we hadn’t seen yet, and it spirals for him from there, trying to regain control, and deal with Jinx, and deal with catching Vi and Caitlyn, and deal with Marcus slipping, etc.
Exactly how I felt. It's one of the only times we see Silco sound annoyed and tired and seeing him like that made me feel that it was important. I do see how it could make others find the scene as a nuisance, but it did intrigue me, even if not as much as the other scenes
I also loved Silco’s annoyance because I think it’s an emotion people can really empathise with, especially given the context of this scene - everyone understands that feeling of something you don’t want to have to deal with, in particular that feeling of dread/frustration that comes with needing to attend an annoying or pointless meeting
Same. As much as I enjoy the crazy stuff that happens in the show it felt good to slow down and see that Silco, while top dog, still has to deal with the pressures of being a crime boss. Yeah he's evil and definitely can't be allowed to win in the end but the scene reminds me he's still human, that the world won't stop and wait for him to solve his (family) issues, and that even if Silco falls there are others who would happily try to seize power in the vacuum he'd leave behind. I wouldn't call that weak.
Yes, exactly! Things are unraveling for Silco and we see him dealing with these things personally. Jinx has gone rouge, Vi and Caitlyn need to be dealt with, the chem barons are unhappy, Marcus is keeping important information from him. These are problems that "tropey" villains don't have to deal with, or are dealt with easily. We see Silco putting in boss level effort to hold things together. This is another delicious parallel between Silco and Vander. Part of Silco's arc is that he grows from not understanding Vander to basically becoming Vander.
100% agreed! This scene made me curious about what was to come next.
The audience automatically reflecting whatever emotion characters on screen show, seems over theoretical and does not account for narrative nuance.
In any case, I do not at all think it applies here.
I actually loved this scene.
"The arc is literally skippable"
Yeah. For the first season. Chem-barons play a significant role in the political landscape of Zaun. And with Silco out of the picture, the chem-barons are gonna fight over the power vaccuum left behind, on top of Piltover getting ready to move against the undercity.
The scene not only introduces the chem-barons but also expands on the world-building surrounding them and their relationship with the undercity.
But personally, the reason why I loved this scene is because Silco's decisions made absoulte sense. The chem-barons were becoming unruly. If he didn't address it, Finn would've gained major influence on the chem-barons, and with it the undercity as a whole. So Silco does what he has to do. Gassing the room up serves triply as a power-move, a threat and a reminder of what life used to be like before Silco elevated them into their current positions and the role Piltover played in their previous struggles before Silco came along
The biggest issue I have with the critique, or the "BAD" is that you've taken a setup scene and you've judged it without properly observing it's payoff. 'Undeveloped characters'? Dude, you were just introduced to them . Caitlyn had fuck-all screentime in the first act and now she's one of the key players. 'Detour plot'? Has it ever occurred to you that they were introduced in the final act to set up the next season? If they needed to play a more significant role in the season entire, maybe they would've been introduced a lot earlier?
As for the 'cartoonish villainy', may I suggest observing the benefits and/or shortfalls of Silco's decisions rather than the superficiailities of how interesting or uninteresting his decisions are. You can have Silco do the most interesting thing in the world, but if it's not in character, then you f*cked up as a writer. His decisions make sense with his motivations and goals. If you understood his other options, you'd know that gassing up that room was the best and only option he has in that moment
Honestly a big issue I have with Movies on a personal level is how they have to be so self contained to be considered great. It's why I'm a huge fan of the MCU. I much perfer ongoing narratives that are fine-to-great or cartoony with tons of interesting looking characters over a great self-contained story that leaves me with nothing to do afterwards.
I was going to make a similar post but you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I think Schnee finds politics and business boring (more or less in his own words). Great video, but I think he's not appreciating the scene because he's focused on the characters more than what they represent. We can't get a back story on everyone in the whole world but we want to learn more about the world and how it functions outside of the primary and secondary characters (e.g. we get a sense of how big Zaun is in that Silco can't just be the crime lord that controls the lanes. It's a whole city with a lot going on because that's more realistic. I mean, he is in control but the scene shows us how he does it and how far his control goes. Without that I would just be wondering the entire time how exactly Zaun functions.).
@@HxH2011DRA congrats I guess, but up until the most recent spider man movie, the marvel films have been....fine (at best) for years. Because they're pretty much all the same, just with different characters, they're very predictable and you kind of already know what the "big plot" is going to be once they finally connect the 20 whatever movies they made for the current "phase". It's not particularly clever writing, and that's the problem. They're not movies. They're basically long TV episodes. Every once in awhile an episode will be super good but the rest of them are Just fine. Because 'movies' are supposed to be self-contained unless they're trying to make it like a trilogy or something.
But it's supposed to be a self contained story, so maybe you just don't like movies or maybe you just haven't seen any really good ones. And that's a damn shame, if you are looking for recommendations though, I know some pretty good movies, my dude.
Mind you this entire response is assuming that you actually get how significant Arcane is, right like this show is a masterpiece in storytelling and writing. So if I did give you a few recommendations for movies it would be based on those merits. I say this because your comment is only talking about movies and the MCU which has nothing to do with this video.
@@aaronmillette763 I don't think he finds politics or business boring. I think he has a more superficial expectation of how the characters should behave. He sees Silco and expects "complex character writing" but sees him threaten a room full of minions and conflates it with 'simplistic cartoonish villain character writing'.
While I'm sitting here going "No. This is the right move. This is clever." What do you expect him to do?
He can't ignore it. Because then their discontent will grow and someone like Finn will use that dissatisfaction to take power away from Silco. Silco knows this. Which is why he doesn't ignore it.
He can't appeal and beg them to trust him. That makes him look weak and that he doesn't know what he's doing. A weak mafia boss is a dead mafia boss. Silco knows this. Which is why he doesn't play softball with them.
He can't just kill all, some or even at least one of them. Because if he kills at least one of them to 'show strength', it's only a matter of time before one of the chem-barons thinks "Well if s/he's dead, how long will it be before he kills me?" Silco knows this. Which is why he spared Finn. Not because he's merciful. If killing Finn would help him keep the other chembarons in line, he would never have given him the mask. But it wouldn't keep them in line, so he keeps Finn alive.
So the best option is to show strength without killing them. But he can't just go "If you don't listen to me, I'll suffocate y'all". That makes him sound petulant and childish. So he frames the threat as a reminder of how things used to be. Which is genius. His shifts the subtext from "If you don't follow me, I'll kill you" to "If you don't follow me, Piltover will kill you. Which is why you have to follow me." That's some sexy-ass nuanced writing.
So while I'm watching this high IQ political maneuver taking place in front of me, rivalling Mel Medarda's scheming, I'm genuinely confused as to why all schnee sees is a 'cartoonish villain'. Like, what?
I actually really like this scene it's just such a total power move.
And to end it with "Good meeting." GOD DAMN Silco is just a class act. You hate him, but you love him cause he takes care of Jinx, but you hate him cause what he did to her family, but you like him cause HE GOT THE POWER MOVES MAN. He is the embodiment of "a villain who doesn't need to yell, is scarier than ones who feel the need to yell." It's why villains like Scar, Darth Vader are PETRIFYING because they are scary with just their mere presence. I also like Silco's reaction when she sliced up Finn. He doesn't just act like nothing happened. He has a very human reaction to almost being murdered. Again.
thats nice.....but did u say scar as in the lion king scar?(not to be rude)
@@DarkR55 I'd say more probably talking about FullMetal Alchemist Scar, but I'm not in her head
@@sacrijuts7265 i just read about the scar u are talking about and yeah it seems more likely, thx!
@@DarkR55 Nope I mean The Lion King Scar. Yes in the end he does get shouty and yelly, but the entire point of his character is that he's charming and manipulative and you don't be CHARMNG by screeching out orders lol. It's why Vader only yells like twice in ANH and that's it never again ever until Kenobi which felt very weird and off putting
Well I think you made some real good points and I totally agree that Silco is an embodiment of a villain that doesn't need to yell. And is while physically strong rather unimpressive compared to everyone around. Being elegant and smart as his main attributes, being so cunning and outclassing everyone around while being at a massive disadvantage just because of your sheer wits.
That makes for some of the most memorable Badasses in my opinion, it kinda is the complete man that doesn't do the macho stereotypes when you first look but really embodies it. Makes me think about Tommy Shelby in Peaky Blinders and Ragnar Lothbrok in Vikings who basically carried that show. Always being in control and calm with that look in their wild eyes. They all got that stare and that extremely calm exterior but you know they are the coolest and that every second they can erupt in extreme violence and assert control if they want to. Tom Hardy also had this as does Mads Mikkelsen and others but they are amongst my favourite actors for this reason and all have played good or bad extreme badasses.
Silco is not as "perfect" physically as mentally but he definitely would destroy a lot of physically more impressive characters. But that being clearly the boss in the room without others even knowing while you see all the signs is just epic and Silco has it.
Your forgetting how Silco, as he chokes the Chem barons, monologues about how they came from a world where there was never go around and how the Barons have become fat and complacent implied to be like the council of Piltover, which adds to his persona as a complex villain . Just saying, i think you make somewhat valid points, but I think the Chem Barons will be more developed in season 2.
Honestly I'm glad they introduced the Chem-baron stuff this season otherwise everyone and their mother would wonder where these guys were b4 😂
@@HxH2011DRA Right?!
Oh I didn't think about the fact that there's a lot of comparisons to be drawn between the individual Chem-Barons and Councilors.
If only you knew, Chem barons go so hard in season 2
This scene:
-Shows Silco as a genuine Zaunite in touch with his roots
-Shows Silco as a ruthless crime boss who doesn’t let Jinx make him soft
-Shows Silco “playing with his food” like any good villain should
-Shows Silco in a genuine leadership role and convinces us that his “Nation of Zaun” could actually work
-Makes a connection to the Enforcers through the breathing metaphor
-Sets up Sevika’s big slash
First of all, I reject the premise that a central character's reaction to a scene necessarily means you feel the same emotion in the same way. Annoyance, boredom, or disinterest can motivate interesting behavior and consequences. Sometimes you have a "wait. What?" moment where the emotion seems strange, and the question of why they're like that is dramatic.
As for Silco choking the chem barons, that wasn't uncomplicated villainy any less interesting than the rest of his character. At least it was more complex than you made it seem because he was trying to make a point about the disconnect between the chem baron's mentality and his. He just did it with a cartoonish villain aesthetic, adding a new layer to the trope in a way that's in character, which is exactly the right way to use a trope.
*Completely* agree
Ohh this makes it a useful scene to show how things and people, aren't always what they seem. Our first impression of Silco was a scary cold bad guy that has no empathy, that gets flipped by revealing more sides of his character, especially through his interactions with Jinx, so he's still very consistent and exactly the same character, it's once we see the full character instead of one side we realise how complex he really is. Finn from his introduction and character design looks cool, powerful, levelheaded, but through this scene we see how weak he truly is
This also makes me consider how Silco is following the advice he gives Jinx, to “be what they fear”, so this trope villainy is an act that he puts on to keep people in their place 😯
i find very interesting in terms or character what the scene portrayed, that silco can still breathe contamined air without a cough and how it represents his direct conection to the working and lower class, like a leader humble enough to understand his people
I'm not sure enough "humble" and "understand" but it is a really good observation! I was wondering why he didn't need a mask but used it for three seconds before giving it to Finn. I get that it was a power move, but what more does it tell us? That he doesn't need the privilege but takes it anyway?
@@Yeneney It has more to do with Silco saying that hard times make strong men.
I think he probably was still affected but can deal with it better than them?, it helped him to show them that he is doing what he’s doing for Zaun and not just for himself.
I love everything about arcane, but I felt kinda jebaited that the "enemy" music video showed powder and Ekko being friends, but we didn't get that in the show. Young Ekko and Powder never even interact, which is a shame since the things we got from the music video look so sweet and it would have set the scene on the bridge up way better
This
It also would’ve made their fight a lot more obvious and predictable. If they’d established a relationship like that before, we all would have expected them to meet up again. And the fight would have just referenced things we’ve seen already instead of showing us new things like it does. It was really cool to realize the significance and history of the fight during the fight
@@randomname191 well put. That's just one of many things that made it one of the best damn scenes I've ever seen in anything, ever. I mean they essentially told an entire backstory and tied it directly to the current, albeit tragic state of the relationship between two of the most important characters. With almost NO dialogue, and they did all of that in like 3 minutes. Goddamn amazing, honestly.
@@jordanfelt5978 yep. It’s weird that one of the things I hear people say is a flaw in the show the most often is actually part of what makes one of the best scenes so great and so unique
@@randomname191 I can't say I've heard specifically that more than like once, but I can relate. And if you've seen a lot of other movies or perhaps TV shows that require you to do some thinking for yourself you'll understand it.....It's because way too many people don't seem to have the ability to think for themselves and it's really sad, honestly. They believe whatever their particular news outlet says and they can't understand a movie that doesn't outright explain everything to them. Like, remember when inception came out and how "confusing" the movie was even though it was amazing? Yeah, It's not that confusing, it's really not, you just got to fill in some of the blanks for yourself and you are good to go.
I want more videos about things that aren't positive or negative like this, it helps a lot at the point I'm at in my writing. I know how to avoid the mistakes, I know what I'm aiming for and how to structure but I don't know how to make those things engaging.
I think we need to talk more about the scenes and movies that are just "fine" and how to make them better not as a criticism of the original but a tutorial for the writers that are stuck at just "fine"
yeah very true, seems like theres as big of a gap between "bad" and "fine", and "fine" and "great"
@@schnee1 I feel that to go from "bad" to "fine" you just have to care enough. But to go from "fine" to "great" you have to care enough, and work at it for years. Honing your craft, writing fine story, after fine story, constantly working to make each one better then the last (or re-writing the same story over and over again). Only then will you start writing great stories.
I liked that scene, because, at least for me, the tropey villainness was actually a good touch in order to remind the audience that Silco isn't just a dad for Jinx, he's an actual mobster with a twisted worldview who have done and will do terrible things, sometimes just for the sake of exercising cruelty.
I was going to say something similar. Not sure if I'd heard it before as a fan theory or writer idea, but it does help remind the audience about his darker side.
@@LifeEnemy We do get plenty of smaller touches throughout the season that convey Silco's villainy. Namely, the fact that his Shimmer factories are full of child workers (Episode 8) and we get a scene of him handing out drugs to the populace of Zaun in the trench when he confronts Vi and Caitlyn (Episode 6). Plus the scene of Silco blackmailing Marcus in his own home, presumably in Piltover, and him bribing Marcus to frame the Firelights and get the Piltover Council off his trail. Silco gassing the Chem Barons in Episode 7 still works, but it's by far his most overt action of villainy since the time skip. I can see why people view as a bit heavy-handed.
The chambaron meeting is a reaction to the border shutdown. The shimmer factory gets destroyed and the chembarons are right there again, saying: now we lose shimmer? Jinx gonna fix this issue aswell? I think that part was well done.
I was looking for this exact comment. The creator of this video seemed to miss this speciffic point.
There was a connection and tension building up, reflecting Silcos and other characters actions as well, Finn is there as someone who is power hungry and preying on possible mistakes. Silco handles it perfectly with the gas, every detail on the scene shows us (and the chem barons) that he is the one in charge.
This is also the build up for the part when Silco is at his weakest and still, Sevika chooses to stay loyal to him. His reaction, her reaction, and the choices they all make in the following segments add a whole lot to their characters.
I like the idea of showing young Fin in Act 1, but I disagree to an extent with your analysis of the scene. Silco's annoyance doesn't set me up to be annoyed with the scene, but intrigued. What could annoy a character that's as cool, collected, and ruthless as Silco? Also, I don't see Silco's handling of the Chem Barons as any kind of character regression, because the show has made it clear that when it comes to Silco's relationship to power, he hasn't progressed at all. It's not a regression because there's nowhere to regress to. Silco may love Jinx and treat her as his daughter, but he's still the same man who holds power through manipulation and threats that he always was.
To me, Silco is a character who doesn't really grow throughout the series as much as his largely static character gets revealed as events happen around him and he responds to them.
I agree, Silco is a static character much in the same way Vi is, but due to personality opposed ideologically
Agreed! People mistake Silco as someone who "used to be" cruel and bad, then "became" loving when he adopted Powder. That isn't true. Silco was always a loving person and adopting Jinx only showed the side of himself that was already there. And Silco remained a cruel crime boss all the way to the end, even while being a loving and loyal father.
His major transformation and growth happened BEFORE the show. When Vander's betrayal and murder attempt transformed him into the monster he is now. But I wouldn't say he is a static character during the show, he still grew in a smaller way - he finally managed to understand where Vander was coming from after all those years.
@@ahsink.3080 *nods nods*
I loved silcos speech, first time disagreeing with you, but I appreciate your point of view.
Honestly think it's hard to understand Silco's character without this speech. not impossible, you could still cut it out potentially, but it makes it far to easy imo to characterize him as a completely dark character outside of his love for Jinx. Thing is (something about him many still don't get unfortunately) is that for Silco power is the means to the end, not the end itself. Understanding that is the difference between recognizing his love for Jinx & the Undercity vs writing it off, and it is solidify here where he faces off the Chem Barons. Perhaps THAT'S why the scene communicates annoyance; Having to explain that this complex character that you've written isn't just power-hunger can be a necessary but annoying detour. But as my favorite author once said you've got to enjoy the little detours to the fullest because that's where you'll find the things more important than what you want.
Right? I I didn't think the speech was corny at all because it reflected what people in that environment would want to hear. The speech is something people can get behind. It's politics. The scene helps us to understand why people follow him.
But schnee said that in its way of fixing the scene he would keep the speech...
This villain trope is not about the speech itself, but doing a monologue while you impose power by near-death.
In retrospect after Season 2 Part 1, I think this scene was supposed to show how in control and powerful Silco is and how the Chem Barons are LITERALLY nothing without him.
I took it as they were showing that even silco has to answer to someone. "there are bigger fish than silco". the sequence of scenes also set up Sevika's finale. it shows that everyone respects her and in the finale song, she's seen recovering in the office by the empty throne.
either she becomes the bigger fish or she chooses the next ruler. without those scenes, she might have less clout.
silco answers to no one though, he was showing that these new money types that the old money (himself) had to climb through the mud and breath the toxic air, and he was showing them what they would be without him. choking on the smog and wilting like that beutiful green house.
These are great ideas but your second idea wouldn't work for one major reason. You can't have the chem barons in the undercity because that defeats the whole point of the scene (and the silent worldbuilding of Zaun). The point of this "penthouse" where they're meeting and the whole point of Silco's dialogue is that they are living ABOVE the toxins of the undercity and it's made them think they're superior. Logistically, they couldn't go into the last drop because they'd be coughing and choking the entire time because it's been so long since they've set foot in the undercity. I'm pretty sure Silco's cannisters aren't even filled with poison, just literal air from down below that they aren't used to anymore. And the penthouse they visit is an intentional part of the worldbuilding with the hierarchies going on in Zaun. There's great concept art of it and everything.
yesss went into the comments section to see if anybody had brought this up haha
I think he missed the whole flower dying part as well. Like that's the best part of the scene...
Did you miss the part were Finn dies in the last drop? And he spoke to Sevika there with no problem. The cannister was filled with poison because even Sevika needed a mask too.
@@salia3542 It looked to me like it was just very concentrated air from the downside. Grayson could breath without a mask too for some time, she was still wearing one for the rest of it.
@@KaterynaM_UA And Caitlyn too. It was toxic air from the mines, I think.
Before even going into this video, I want to comment on the aprehension VS excitement thing for character responses to upcoming events: Silco's "this is a nuisance" only carries if you consider Silco the only actor in the scene. When I first saw the prelude to that scene, I didn't hear Silco's boredom - I heard the contrast between Sevika's delivery, which I felt was a subtle but pointed "hey this is serious" and Silco's dismissal of the same. This builds up under the distance that is growing between Silco and his people, here showcased (again) by Sevika, before we're even introduced to the chembarons.
I also really liked this scene XD it's a moment this late in the season for Silco to be a cartoonish villain again, putting his cartoonish henchmen back in their place. At the same time it's a solid setup for the Chem Barons to return in season 2, more organized as a gang and more developed as characters. All of your points about Finn specifically though are on-point. Finn stands out as underdevloped to me because he's supposed to be the voice of the Barons, but the show just didn't have enough time to delve any deeper into him.
I think we can get that in season 2. In LoL lore Corvina Verosa and Renata Glasc are very cunning and powerful women
Huh. Hard disagree on this one. It's one of my favorite moments for Sevika, and I like that Silco gets to trounce on some of his peers. It fleshes out the world a little, even if it was too little too late. Maybe the difference is that I'm not so automatically opposed to Silco? I don't generally mind that Silco rose to power since it seems to have brought some good along with the bad, so I'm more invested in his business doing well than you seem to be.
oh also, I loved the Trade Federation stuff in the Star Wars prequels. I know it's popular to condemn them but I enjoy what George was trying to say with them about raging capitalists, and we got introduced to the Trade Federation almost right away, so what else would we care about?
wow I always appreciate reading your dissenting opinions on my videos but... the trade federation??? :O
@@schnee1 I blame my Prequel apologia on watching them before the OT lol
@@sabrina0013 I'd usually find that appalling, but then again I'm an arcane youtuber who never played league. (If you tell me you liked Rogue One though, fair warning: i WILL be appalled.)
@@TitterpigRancher this betrayal is my powder ep3 moment...
For me the gas scene was awesome.
His subordinates had forgotten how hard life was before Silko changed everything in the undercity .
Notice Silko isn't wearing a mask because he has lived his entire life accustomed to the terrible air while the others in the room are rolling on the floor because of it .
It tells you about his life, it tells you about his relationship whit his subordinates, it tells you how far he is willing to go for change.
A brilliant scene!
I think Finn could've even been one of the kids Vi and Co beat up. It could've shown him he needed to grasp for whatever power he can, however he can. Could've been how he hurt his jaw
I do like your suggested changes, except for the Last Drop one.
I think, while throwing the meeting in the Last Drop would, as you said, give it a bigger sense of stakes, I think it would kinda destroy the first impressions we're supposed to have about the Chem-Barons.
We are SUPPOSED to find the Chem-Barons as sorta a leech to Silco. Why? Because, in League and in the universe overall, a majority of Chem-Barons ARE leeches. They're not respected and yet have power over the Zaunites. Even Renata Glasc is dismissive of Chem-Barons herself, even as one of them. To quote her; "Most Chem-Barons are just lackies who failed upward."
But most importantly, I think the environment is more important in giving our impressions of these Chem-Barons. You see Silco and Sevika going up the elevator, exiting the fissures of Zaun into this immaculate room, sun shining through, clean air readily available, plant life growing all around... A greenhouse almost. With life, plants, carefully cultivated, providing clean air and oxygen. The environment is there to subtly show us that these people, despite being Zaunites, aren't living like other Zaunites at all. They're disconnected, both from the sense of suffering Zaun has and from the causes being fought for; they're more Piltovan than Zaunite, with their clean air, business sense, and modern sense of fashion.
Silco even comments about this, but the environment is there to help give weight to what he's saying. If he gives the same speech in the Last Drop, we don't really know what he's talking about because we don't know these characters; upon seeing them for the first time in the depths of Zaun, we aren't assuming they're living any different than other Zaunites, and thus gives Silco's monologue here less meaning, and gives us a 'tell don't show' situation when we can't really have one.
But I think these scenes will be far more important come S2 when the power vacuum in Zaun becomes an issue. Sevika is surely next in line, but I don't think that'll last for long, and the Chem-Barons will likely be making plays to try and gain power. By that point I think we'll get a few more fleshed out Chem-Baron characters.
I think this is a fair critique. While I initially agreed that the Last Drop would be good to add to the importance of Chem Barons, I think this high rise location is actually important on its own right. It also fits the trope too of fancy surroundings for people of fancy standing. I just think then that the location should have been established earlier in the show, maybe in the prologue episodes. This would make it so it doesn’t just feel like a stereotypical high-rolling high-rise like I sort of mentioned before. That may be part of why Schnee dismissed so readily, because it primarily exists within that trope.
Maybe Vander could mention that it’s a place known as the play area for those few disconnected by wealth from his more wholesome rule of Zaun, and that he doesn’t bother visiting. While Silco mentions he’s been making overtures to the rich there to support his bid for power. This would also complicate the substantial prologue part of the show by showing further symptoms of Silco’s rule having further appeal. It would move the power dynamic out of just being Silco vs. Vander. Showing that there are divisions based on class in Zaun earlier, and we can wonder how the rich changed to chem barons. It also shows how Silco changes, going from beseeching the idle rich of Zaun to being annoyed by them due to his power and growing Vander-ish characteristics.
Or simply show it earlier in the various Zaun montages in the second half of the show. A montage shot of the Chem Barons meeting there mixed in with the sizzle reel we get of Zaun when Vi visits after prison.
@@wampower6848 Also there's a great detail that might have been missed: the magnificent plant behind Finn withered by the end of the scene
Your analysis definitely holds water now that we have season 2, the Chem barons are more important and the angle of the under-city air being toxic is even more important with the grey.
I honestly felt this scene, and his complacency towards meeting with the chem barons was the start of them turning Silco's new leaf over, and start to make him sympathetic as a father figure for Jinx. So I think his "annoyance" is more his pre-occupation with something more important. We're SUPPOSED to feel uninterested in this meeting because he is, because his mind is on something more important. His daughter, Jinx. This is also why Sevika has her moment, because they're starting to draw this father-daughter parallel more and more as this third act starts.
Honestly, this could have been one of the best scenes in Arcane due to couple of interesting things:
1) The Chem barons act as a “Council” for Zuan - showing how power can creep up when society progresses technologically. The council is similarly underdeveloped, it acts as a set piece almost. Treating it like a set piece, like a chore that Silco is doing in the background while in conflict with Sevika, would have worked. It’s also nice to make the audience reminded again that what we see about Silco’s ambiguity and emotion is the exception, and 90% of the time he’s this incredibly ruthless individual.
2) Finn works well as a parallel to Mel; young, stylish, mysterious, cunning -> it could have been a way to show how Mel would not have made it far in Zuan, and how unfit she was to make decisions about Zuan. Likewise, if Jynx mirrors Jayce then Silco mirrors Hiemerdinger. Silco’s “don’t forget where you come from” mirrors Hiemerdinger’s “never again”. Whereas in Piltover change and progress is needed to help people, in Zuan change is used to control them. The Finn vs. Silco and the Hiemerdinger vs. Jayce/Mel being explored at the same time would have fit nicely thematically.
3) Seeing a couple of tough characters react scared to the mention of the Chem Barons, would have made Silco’s boredom kinda badass, and possibly a source for hype.
after season 2 batch 1, i feel like this scene was just meant to introduce the idea of chem barrons, since they become more important later.
I like your "negative" videos a lot especially because you suggest how you'd approach to changing it. Like, it's one thing to say this wasn't good because this this and that. But it's way more interesting/constructive/informative to think about how you'd try to make it better. Thanks for the awesome video!
Here i am, atleast a year late to the party giving my opinion that is probably never read.
1. I think that scene is very important for reasons quite invisible at first glance, the most important one, we would have a major plothole if it didnt to some extend exist (the extend is arguable): Silco didnt really took over the underground, he brought the already somewhat reigning crimelords together to work in somewhat of unison. So in status silco is just ever so slightly above them, therefore if all this trade block caused by jinxes actions happened, it would not seem right for the chembarons to sit around ideling for long since their own buisness is their own and not silcos, but yet is it severly impacted.
2. The scene also gives us more insight about silcos background, when he released the toxin that made all other chembarons choke, he revealed that it is the same toxin that was all present in the underground when it was little than a mining colony of piltover, the point where his and vanders revolution started. Furthermore we see that this toxin doesnt make silco choke, he is used to it because he was exposed to it for many years, which he also directly declares to finn (the pathetic one).
3. For a third point, this scene also introduces the viewer to the chembarons for the first time, they arent named yet at this point, but are later fleshed out somewhat in the first season, atleast finn and renni are, finn was the naive yet ruthless upstart that dared silco, renni was the mother of the kid that was killed when jayce raided silcos factory. Not much characterisation for sure yet this is only the first season you cant expect tertiary villains to already be fleshed out at that point.
The scene also tells us that silcos operation is indeed nested in a larger set of communities, there are leaders powerfull enough to demand answeres from silco when the shit hits the fan.
I agree with you that it was one of the weaker scenes of the show, it showed silco performing a physical powerplay, which is really not what he is good at. However the season still gained much from this seasons the point i brought up covered: 1. worldbuilding, 2. history of silco, 3. worldbuilding / setup.
These points i think are enough to warrant this scene to put in.
I apologize for any grammatical or spelling mistakes, english isnt my native language but i am in love with arcane and the universe it is based on, so i made this comment anyway.
Now this scenes makes a lot more sense after watching the first act of season 2. The reason why the underworld or Zaun fell into chaos is because the other chem barons started fighting for power after Silco, their leader, was gone. This scene showed us the power Silco had of the underground since all of these factions seem powerful themselves. And it shows that when he left it all devolved into chaos because of these people. Had Silco not been their leader the underground would be in a constant civil war.
The one thing I dislike about the show is very niche. Surprisingly enough, I don't like Vi in Arcane that much, not make because she is a bad character (Vi is an AMAZING character), but because I can no longer look at Vi in LoL or LoR. I can't enjoy the "One Girl Wrecking Crew" because all I see is a girl who lost basically all of her family. This problem I specifically have also extendens to Ekko. And I know that Arcane is not technically cannon (which is a real missed oppurtunity), but the characters in the show are so good that they end up affecting the characters outside the show.
Shouldn't play LoL before watching Arcane haha
you should go read the short stories in runeterra and other character sources. Vi in League And Arcane are great fun characters, but its difficult to say that a character in limited media (for LOR and LOL) to have as much depth as a character in expanded media (arcane)
Thats how i feel with Jinx
Arcane seems to be extended canon to me, from everything I''ve read so far. If it does not contradict it's canon.
I definitely think the scene could've been done in a more powerful and captivating way (even if I could never produce such a scene), but I think some of the suggested reworks presented take away some key elements that really add to the ultimate goal of the scene even if it may make it feel more interesting in the moment. I agree that one major limitation is that we need to make the "villains" feel / be weak, but I think there are other things that help set the tone as well
Fix #1 Commentary: In my opinion the fact that we don't know these characters and we don't really care about them either is actually pretty important. That might sound counter-intuitive, but I think even the tiniest of hooks detracts, however slightly, from the feeling that we're supposed to get from this scene. It isn't a scene about these "villains", it's a scene about Zaun, about Sevika, and about the Silco that the undercity knows rather than the one we know. We've spent a lot of time with Silco, but we see the real him. Clearly this wouldn't be the case for most people. They see the front that he puts up. The "cartoony villain Silco" appears here because that's what he wants villager A (or in this case Fin) to see him as. And this lack of understanding is what leads to Fin's downfall. He's not an important part of the plot. He's just some guy who sees this cartoony villain Silco at the top and thinks he can take over. Thinks he's got what it takes to become the new top dog. Little does he know that the Silco he sees isn't the real Silco, and that Sevika who stands by his side isn't going to see the same qualities in Fin, because Fin is fundamentally weak and unimportant. Not just physically, but also mentally, politically, his drive, everything. He. Is. A nobody.
Fix #2 Commentary: I actually think you're spot on with the concept of this one. I think this scene could have more of a reason for existing. It works fine (if a bit meh) as just another meeting, but it would make more sense why this overthrowing business is coming up now if we had some kind of reason for it. Ultimately it's still important that Silco sees it as tedious, though. We don't want to lose that feeling of this is just another day in the office for Silco, even if it isn't for the Chem-Barons. For that reason I don't know about the whole last drop thing in particular, but some kind of stakes from the Chem-Barons' perspective would be a good idea imo.
Fix #3 Commentary: It's hard to say much about this one because it really fundamentally changes the scene to the point that it's not really the same scene / arc anymore in my opinion. It's hard for me to say whether it would be more or less engaging with the current version vs the proposed version unless I see it in action in a more fleshed out production. Ultimately what I can say is that I don't feel the need to uproot the scene as is, even if it is a bit boring (which it is, especially on a first watch, I'll admit that).
I think you could have still gotten across that he is a nobody who only sees the cartoon inside of Silco while still putting in an Act 1 hook, and I personally always found the scene extremely entertaining, but on absolutely everything else I agree 1'000'000%!
I really loved Finns design, especially looking at the visual similarities he has with his voice actor Miyavi. Too sad we didn’t get to see more of him….
I liked the scene because Silco went into THEIR house and just stomped on them without even breaking a sweat. “Good meeting.” Badass!
the way this scene is extremely relevant and foreshadowing a massive part of the story now the first act of season 2 released !!!
I really like this scene, it serves many goals. It expanded the world, introduced secondary villains, and set up consequences and the foundation for Sevica's and Vi's arcs. But most importantly, it reinforced the complexity of a character and reminds us that Silco is not only a father to Jinx. She has been his primary concern since the beginning of the second act. He was basically running around town fixing her messes, trying to kill off threats to their relationship, making therapy sessions with her, taking her to the doctor, etc. But this scene has nothing to do with Jinx. It's about his business, ideology, and power - all important things to him, and he deals with it as a ruthless sociopath. Without this scene, it would look like Silco was completely transformed by Powder's hug, and now even if he doing something horrible he just acting like a papa bear protecting his kid. With it, you can not help but wonder if a guy this cold is even capable of love, making his choice in the final less certain and more impactful.
to be fair Finn called Jinx a Dog so he kind of deserved it XD (And Silco was visibly pissed at the comment too so it does tie back into the daddy bear element just the tiniest bit~)
@@HxH2011DRA well, now we all know where his true loyalty lies 😏 However, back then it seemed as annoyance at the underling daring to question his decision.
Agreed!
@@tj3603 the scene also served to show Silcos convictions are stronger than the others who are just money hungry. Silco actually believes in something greater than mere money and hasn't forgotten what hes foghting for while the others grew spoiled.
I guess this scene was not originally written in the show,it was added later according to Amanda‘a interview.She said the episode 9 we see actually used to be episode 8,they saved the original episode 9 to the season 2,so they had to add some scenes to expand the original episode 8 into two episodes ,and i guess the chem barons scene is one of them
“We were able to add more of the chem barons and more kind of lore of the undercity that we hadn’t really able to touch on yet”That’s what she said
wow that's so interesting!! im sure thats why it felt so disconnected then
@@schnee1 You and your fanboys are the only ones who felt this was disconnected from the entire show. Everyone in the comments doesn’t see any issues in the scene.
@@schnee1 only you man. This scene was very important imo.
Your solutions are really thought through to the point that I just want to watch them, and I didn't even dislike the original scene! Well done.
I think the chem barrons act as a foil for the council in piltover. In a way, the fact that they don't really 'feel' like a council shows us the disconnect between the political nature of Zaun and Piltover. It's almost like a parody/sattire for the way the council acts e.g. attempting to make deals like in the scene with Finn and Sevika, gathering in a 'fancy-looking' place for an audience, etc, only for everything to go wrong, appear 'immature' as in they cannot do this well. It might be a bit of a stretch, but the foil idea could also imply the meeting between Caitlyn, Vi and the council, and how that played out. Overall, it's as if the chem barrons are trying to recreate the idea of power in Piltover, but because Zaun and Piltover are so different, they fail.
Precisely this and to add on to what your saying this is why Silco has such a problem with Piltover wannabes, despite ironically being so much like a topsider himself!
finn is a leader of assassin organization, the fact he died just like that is quite confusing;also fun fact, the old man in a wheelchair is in charge of surveillance organization; the lady is the leader of escort business, they are oligarchs, monopolize all the businesses in undercity that's lucrative; and they all deal with shimmers
for some who leads assassins it's funny he couldn't detect killing intent directed at him XD
@@HxH2011DRA he thought his play at her ego was gonna work lol
Is it just me or I really like this scene
nah it's my favorite scene. Different strokes and all that
It really is s shame that these fellas didn't get more context .
Its basically a set up for
season 2
I think this whole group of scenes is going to be used as a foil in the next season. It’s pretty clear that with Silco gone, there’s going to be a power vacuum. It is mentioned that there are “bigger fish” than silco, so this scene if anything is just the prelude to this.
Only thing I wish we got in act 3 was a scene with Jayce and Cait where he addresses her using his name and status for her own goals.
He brushed it off to Marcus but I doubt he was just all chill about it. At the very least a brief "Hey, why did you do that?" And Cait answering would have been nice.
Cait: I'm a misfit remember~
To be fair, they didn’t exactly have the time to bring that up, considering the other shit they have to deal with.
@@ROB-cj4kq no doubt. I'm not saying Cait was wrong, but it's one of those things that has a (most likely) simple solution but feels wierd as a loose end.
Now this scene has become a lot more impactful in retrospective after season 2, introducing both the chem-barons and the gray, and giving us insight into the power struggle at play there
I feel like if they had introduced Finn earlier in the show, even as a side character for one scene, they could have given him a jaw defect. It would make him a foil to Victor as a kid disabled due to the pollution in undercity, but during his glow up he actively sought power and recognition in a way Victor was to quiet or self conscious to do.
No, it makes him even more simmilar to Viktor coz both of them treat their bodies like an object not like something sacred
@@finezyjnafantazja2495i mean it could still work, Finn sought working around his defect with tried and true augmentation via steel (aka "what's kept us going through tough times") and Viktor looks beyond that with Magic thanks to his influence from Jayce/Piltover? Its an idea to entertain for sure bc it seem like it could lead to a more nuanced outlook. Plus on top of that it described more about the character, Finn the boy who used to have no voice and Viktor who felt stuck in place.
I think the changes you suggested are pretty extreme. I think that there are 3 minor changes that improve this scene in a way that benefits the story and avoids adding extra characters that muddy the waters.
1. Have the chem barons brought up in conversation ideally between Silco and Jinx in the early parts of act 2 possibly right after the Shimmer shipment scene. To make it more impactful you could even have one of them probably Finn discussing business with Silco as Sevika walks in and have Silco dismiss him with a nonchalant hand wave and a "we'll finish this later" in a tone that reflects this discussion isn't worth his time. You could even have Finn look kinda miffed as he walks out to show he feels disrespected but not in a position to do anything about it. The scene then plays out as it normally does except before Silco asks jinx about what happened with the shipment she asks why he even bothers with the chem barons. He replies that they are a necessary step for an independent Zaun. This separates Silco from the Barons in that they see running the undercity as the pinnacle of power but shows that Silco has more lofty goals that puts him in step with them but also above them. They are developed in how they fit into the new version of the lanes, Finn is more fleshed out but still below Silco.
2. The scene before the meeting keep almost exactly the same where Silco says he doesn't need another headache except have Sevika respond that this meeting is important to maintain a united front or something along those lines. This raises the stakes of the meeting but also shows that Sevika is still focused on the bigger picture while Silco is focusing on Jinx and has not realized yet that he may eventually have to choose between his goal and his daughter. It also hints at a slight separation between Sevika and Silco.
3. Keep the meeting scene the same except when Silco looks to Sevika to start the gas, have her hesitate then have her unleash the gas with the slightest of sighs. When it cuts back to Silco have Finn's eyes be looking at Sevika (clocking the slight hesitation) before coughing and looking back at Silco. This may seem like cartoony villainy but this is Silco putting on a performance to show his priorities have not changed even though internally they may have whether he knows it or not. Having Finn clock Sevika's hesitation tells him and us that this act may not be as true as it seems and there may be a crack in the loyalty that Finn can exploit, which is why he goes to Sevika to turn her against Silco. This then plays out exactly like it did with Finn's plan failing and Sevika staying with Silco but makes it more of an uncertainty until she kills Finn.
The question is, whats the best scene?
Now thats a hard choice
Guns of hire
@@mr.unkownxoxo Very true but the amount of times I've watched that is so unhealthy that my brain is going insane making myself to burntout
Yeah its just me expression my shit
Guns for hire will always always will be the best scene in arcane
what about dynasties and dystopia? 😸
@@plagueknight8026 Bridge scene is absolutely epic! (Though personally I would have to go with old geezer beats Caitlyn to the Undercity)
Bold of you to assume I wasn't rooting for Silco politically.
But I agree with the fixes, it would have been stronger to have it happen at the bar. Would've loved that parallel.
No. It had to be up higher than the bar to signify the chem-barons rise above the rest of the city and their 'entitlement' to fresher air compared to the air down below
@@chrishaven1489 Agreed.
No, setting it in the bar would have destroyed the meaning entirely. The point was that they had grown fat and happy in the fresh air of topside, Silco was bringing them down back to his level with the fissure gasses, and shown that Silco himself despite have all the power, wealth, and influence remained with the people of Zaun.
I always hate the “character eavesdrops on a conversation and walks away before someone can clarify what they said” thing. Like with Powder in episode 1, Vi and Mylo are talking about Powder. Mylo is complaining that Powder can’t do anything, and Vi replies with “You know what Mylo? You’re right. There’s just a bunch of things Powder can’t do.” Powder hears this and immediately leaves, only for Vi to say right after that Mylo complains and picks fights with the group etc. I never really understood why people did this, and it always makes me frustrated.
See, I initially had the same reaction, but I've always hated the trope because it's so often used as a contrived way to create artificial conflict. When Powder first overheard that conversation, I was worried the writers were going to have her blow up and hold a grudge against Vi or Mylo.
Instead, she internalized Mylo's words (notice how he's the primary antagonistic force in her hallucinations). She mentions his criticism in the later conversation with Vi, but it's handled in a much more realistic way.
Vi not only clarifies later that she meant well but also ends up helping her feel better about what happened. The scene was not the misunderstanding trope moment and said trope isn't even meant to be the interpretation of the scene.
What happened here is that we got to see that although Powder, like any child, is hurt by criticism of that kind, she doesn't actually take it seriously until it comes from Vi.
The only time Vi says something she sees as judgemental or belittling and she doesn't try to leave the room/conversation is in episode three when Vi punches her and calls her a Jinx but Powder doesn't leave because, as she says herself in the scene, she needs Vi.
And I'm sure it's obvious why her reactions to judgement depending on if it's Vi or not is relevant as Jinx lol.
Gotta disagree with your first point, about Silco’s annoyance translating to us.
If anything it makes us MORE intrigued to know how bad the assembly must be to compare with Jinx’s chaos (which also created such “headaches”, and was extremely entertaining).
While the scene shows a power move from Silco, I always wondered why Finn just stands by, begging for the mask, when he is clearly much stronger than Silco and could just have taken it right away. It's also a bit far fetched that he would end up on the ground from the suffocating gas while Silco is completely unaffected when even Sevika dons a mask. It's also hard to believe that the other chem barons would just remain seated in such an event. Still a fun scene to watch, and I was looking forward to it because I wanted to know who it was that annoyed Silco that much. ;)
Personally, my least favourite scene is the "playroom" scene with Marcus' child and Silco. It just feels... Pointless. It drags, it's boring, it doesn't build tension. It almost insults your intelligence with it posturing about "oh so threatening!" and I just couldn't care less. It's like they wanted to humanise Marcus but only had "father" as his character trait aside from "bad cop".
This scene is... Passable. It's fine, I think it's alright. It's cool to see Silco assert his dominance and while it's totally not the best I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as watching Silco cringily knock the house of dominos down
I remember being so upset that finn got k1lled off because i liked him for the design even if there wasnt much to him yet. but because he kinda showed up out of nowhere and then got taken out that quickly i was just disappointed and couldnt get too attached.
Can we get a short on what Marcus original Deal with Silco could have been? "THIS WASN'T THE DEAL", Silco: "Deals change *tosses coinbag*"
I was curious about that too
0:40 this is an insane stretch
You say this scene is Silco being a cartoony-villain, but how many cartoony villains do you know that'll walk into a room full of rebels, choke them out, and then...just let them live after he made his point. A cartoony villain would've used violence and intimidation to make his point. What did Silco do instead? Object lesson. Any violence that Silco leveraged in the scene was secondary to him having an actual argument that he felt they could understand. "I should lead Zaun because I'm the reason we have clean air."
But here's the weird thing. Silco does make a very cartoony threat in the scene, but its not where I think you think it is. The cartoony threat Silco makes is not with the gas. Its not with the gas mask. It is in him not wearing one. Not using one. Silco's threat to Finn was simple: Don't drag me back to the way Zaun used to be. Don't make this cutthroat. Cause if you bring us back to that world of toxicity, you won't be able to stop me. And he did it by not using a gas-mask. By just standing there holding one, and making it clear to Finn that while Finn couldn't stand the toxic air, Silco -could-. And then to really drive things home to Finn, Silco casually kicks Finn, partakes a breath, before passing his gas mask to Finn. I.e., this clean topside world is mine, and I welcome you into it, as long as you yield.
I like the idea that it happens at the last drop, but remember that the chem barons are the only ones who have gotten to accustomed to fresh air, it would be even more powerful if everyone else in the last drop were barely affected by the gas
underrated comment
I love how s2 actually fixes almost all of this by building off this scene for jinx's new arc
I Love this scene. It shows how people tend to forget its bad origins when they are at good position. They forgot their position and should be reminded. Silko has this serene consciousness despite being fully crazy and has some ingenious way of showing his way of thinking.
in the first fix, what if finn, becomes the leader of the kid group Vi beats up, they were clearly trying to seize control on that entrance to the udnercity, that would clearly communicate his desire for control, and we can even add a little scene when we are seeing the first wide shot into the undercity, to were he scoffs at vi and them vi makes a mean face and he rattles away, that could be a very interesting setup for him
Personally I love the chem barons scene because of sylco being annoyed at this pathetic character, for me it reminds me a bit of the sylco taking jynx to the river with his metaphors about reminding people where they came from, but I do get the it is a very cartoony villain style I do agree if it was taken out it wouldn’t change much but I still like the scene for sylco using the past to possibly kill their future for me it fells very metaphorical in his own sylco style metaphors but I can also see that it didn’t have a massive point in the whole story
Silco did say everyone betrays us after all
@@HxH2011DRA true
i think the entire point of that small arc was to show how the chem barons, who can easily be inferred by the spectator to be mafia bosses, are simply irrelevant in front of silco. silco is technically one more drug lord just like them, and yet he's trampling them. later the climax is about showing how sevika is not just a mindless obedient henchman, and how the powerful silco is vulnerable.
i consider that the power of a character can only ever be as impressive as that character is vulnerable. for example, guts in berserk might be wielding a sword heavier than him like it's nothing, and show time and time again prowess of superhuman strength, yet because of how vulnerable he is, he still gives off that feeling of human limits, which make his feats and power all the more impressive. some characters feel like they don't desserve their strength, like it's just an arbitrary number written by the author. some characters feel like they desserve their strength, worked for it or made sacrifices, and now are getting that payoff. and finally, some characters feel like they shouldn't even be able to attain that sort of strength, not like they have some "pushing past their limits" gimmick, but like they are breaking they are breaking universal laws.
in some instances, silco gives off that feeling, he's not just a mastermind or manipulator, he actually pulls it off, ruling over zaun, a place were even the strong get eaten by the stronger, and he does it and dominate people as a man who can't even fight.
Well it's not thrilling, it's humanizing. He's humanized by showing him try to terrify his people but we're meant to feel for him that he Has to have this talk with them.
The 3rd fix is definitely the best. Shows a bit of contrast between Finn and the father and it doesn’t take that much more time in the story itself to have this extra character who plays a relatively small role.
I think the chem barons were put there to plant seeds for season 2.
With Silco dead, and Jinx being a solo operative more or less, it is those same chem barons who will be running the underground in season 2.
I imagine when they were writing this scene, they were initially going to develop the characters more, but basically decided they'd have all of season 2 to do that so it would be a waste of effort to do it now.
Especially the woman who's son was killed by Jayce. I imagine we'll see her and Jayce, and Ambesssa as well, pushing for war on both sides in season 2
@@magicfeather7871you should watch season 2
For the fashion section I was thinking the same thing in terms of the subliminal messages of his characters appearance and how it supports his role.
The snake tattoo. The Jaw Mod-he’s reinforced only by his mouth.
Other things I noticed as well is his hair being shaved on one side gives him 2 different profiles. I think this could represent how he’s “two faced.” In loyalty. Same thing with his jacket. He wears it only half on. I interpreted that as symbolism that he’s only got “one toe” in the water…like it’s a representation of his lack of commitment and it hides his body just like he hides his true intentions.
The lighter. He want’s to burn it all down. I also love how the lighter moments in Arcane often represent a deal being “sealed” or are an insinuation of the direction the loyalty paths are going.
I actually this scene. It's a very clever way to flesh out the relationship between Silco and Sevika, who shows here that she's more than just muscles and making ugly faces. Finn is a prop but he serves the purpose wonderfully. Plus, I like how it shows that Silco is not a business man but an idealist disguised as a business man.
I don't totally agree with the nuissance idea. Meeting the chem barons is not "we need to do the laundry because we are out of clean socks" but a consequence of everything in this part of the story going south for Silco.
"he's not a business man but an idealist disguised as a business man" perfectly sums up Silco!
Well said
I love your channel and how deeply you analyze stories in such a intricate but simplistic way, but one of my favorite things is your visual gag for stakes.
This scene's main purpose was to show how much Silco raised Zaun in its history. He roleplays that with the gas attack and playing resources with the gas mask. The chem barons were just there to act as NPCs. The head chem baron guy is just there so Sevika can show loyalty to Silco. These characters dont need development, theyre just free pushes for the main cast.
Came now after season 2 ( first 3 ep )
I can't say they 100% fixed everything with this scene
BUT they did put to good use
Now this scene acts as an introduction to the Chem barons and compares how negligible they are under Silco's rule and Sevika's at full strength VS how central and threatening they are after Silco's death
Silco’s disinterest in the meeting didn’t at all make me disinterested in the scene to come, it showed Silco is a man who is so wrapped up in his own world, that he doesn’t have interest or time in things “he” deems unimportant.
It shows his status.
When those doors open and we are presented to these new, extremely visually pleasing characters, with this giant growth looming behind their table, it successfully expanded to world of Arcane and what we can expect to see in the future.
I didn’t know these new characters, but I WANTED to! The design is so powerful and adds SO much to the world building!
And I viewed everything as a power play. This scene shows unrest within the ranks of Zaun, yet Silco will show up and forcibly bend everyone back in line. The scene shows how ruthless and powerful Silco is within a matter of minutes.
It shows he’s fighting for Zaun, yet will not tolerate people that don’t believe in his leadership.
Powerful scene in many ways.
I've not seen this sentiment echoed anywhere else so I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion or not, but I actually felt that the big climactic fight of ep3 (where Vi, Milo and Claggor are trying to break Vander out) actually went on a bit too long.
I remember watching it and loving it, don't get me wrong, BUT I though there was a few too many "darkest hour" moments.
You know,
- First they break in and set about freeing Vander, but then Silco's goons show up and things look hopeless.
- But then Vi actually starts beating them up and winning, but then the shimmer goon turns up and things look hopeless.
- But then she retreats and holds him out long enough for the rescue to start going well, but then Powder sets off the bomb, killing Milo and Claggor and things look hopeless.
- BUT THEN a freed Vander goes and starts fighting the Shimmer goon, but Silco stabs him and throws him off the walkway and things look hopeless.
- BUT THEN! Vander injects himself with shimmer, surviving long enough to actually beat the shimmer goon & get Violet out.
Now all of these were utterly badass and everything, but it was just too much in too short a timeframe, and every "darkest hour" moment & recovery lessened the impact of the next one. After a while I was actually just waiting for it to end.
But yeah - it's easy to say, but I don't have a good idea for restructuring it as nearly every beat was important to have (assuming Vander's shimmer use comes back in a later season).
I think the whole point was to make the audience question the outcome. At first we all guess that it's a trap but surely they can make it, everything after that is just to make the viewer question how bad it can get and eventual answer is "worse than you imagine" and it works.
I fully agree that there were too many "Darkest hour" moments. The moments before Vi picked up the Gauntlets or when Silco stabbed Vander were definitely important, but the whole "This'll be a very short reunion" bit was trying a bit too hard.
I personally loved this scene. We are now seeing more of Silco's "softer" side at this point. It shows that he's still ruthless at his core. Also, he's hella badass. dealing with a threat without even batting an eye. It also shows that despite how far he has come he is still very humble. (being able to deal with the toxic air)
I think the idea was that eating was meant to be secret because these people didn't have the nerve to face Silco face to face. They went behind his back and if Silco didn't deal with it they maybe have been able to get their nerves up to face him. So yeah. He could just ignore them. but he dousn't want them to think they can get away with it. So yeah, it's just a bother to him because they are not a threat to him. (at this point)
Maybe from a very technical film school perspective its not the scene you would put there but for what its trying to be its so good. Silco is fascinating because hes fighting for Zaunite independence... alone. Its not a movement, not a revolution (yet). Its just him. He is constantly trying to manage both Jinx and his business while also scaling his ideological pet project of recreating Zaun. For the scene to be a "nuisance" for Silco says a lot. Its another layer of how he cares for his people in the abstract but materially he couldn't give 2 shits. He spends his time talking about loyalty and the strength of the people of Zaun but then distributes shimmer and drops his business to the ground. The scene is also in episode 7, we are finally at the point in the story where Silcos priority is beginning to shift towards Jinx. This being an afterthought meeting not only worldbuilds but conveys how unimportant they are to him now. At the start he was all business and all talk. Now hes just throwing words to the chem barons whenever they show up and actually taking action to forge Zaun and save Jinx. In 2 more episodes hes at the point where hes willing to drop his entire production of Shimmer at the drop of a hat in order to get the Zaun he wants. It conveys so much that this dosent matter to him because a few episodes earlier it was the one thing he was concerned about
My biggest issue with Arcane is I feel we needed one more episode. Specifically with the characters as kids. Id also add the way Mylo and the Clagger died was too abrupt and felt too plot armor/arrow.
Personally I think we needed half an episode more with them as children to really establish the connections, specifically with Echo and the other kids, there's a hint but we don't actually see anything.
Id then dedicate the other half of an episode to in between the time skip, specifically Id kill Clagger in the factory scene but keep Mylo alive as he escapes Silko and doesn't get captured like Vi, then we see a shorter time skip where Jinx is with Silko and we have Mylo and Echo together beginning to form the Firelights and we have Jinx kill Mylo here. I feel seeing her more directly kill Mylo would show more of her spiral and also aid in the actual spiral itself, plus it would explain why Jinx's version of Mylo she sees in her head is older than when he died. Most people who experience extreme trauma with loss don't age up the person they loss with them, they normally remember them exactly how they were when they last saw them, but we clearly see an aged up Mylo in the Guns for Hire scene and with the Mylo Doll Jinx made.
I'd also like to add in the other hinted at moments that took place in the time skip here such as Cait joining the enforcers, Jace creating the teleporters, Echo creating the hover boards, the mad scientist guy creating the specific version of Shimmer he gives Victor. Do a little more show don't tell, give us a little more time to feel invested in the kids as kids, and make Mylo and Clagger's death less abrupt and plot arrow like. Those two kids only died because they needed too, but absolutely no one else died, not even the juiced up guy who was the actual target of the bomb. That's why I say plot arrow not plot armor, if everyone but those two kids had plot armor Id say more so the kids had plot arrow. I just feel it was way too cheap to have only them die, have them die so quickly and frankly Final Destination style where they only died because it happened to line up just right. But then literally no one else did, not even the random henchmen on the bridge. Random henchmen don't get plot armor
But the juiced up guy DID die
And ps the mad scientist guy's name is Singed. I don't think they ever once say his name in arcane, you either need to have the subtitles on or just know LOL lore
@@castlesteinway7741 the juiced up kid didn't die. Vander killed him when he got all juiced up and then he only died when he jumped out the window saving Vi.
The actual Hex crystal explosion that killed Clagger and Mylo ONLY killed Clagger and Mylo. Just felt cheap to me, the only other causulty was Sevika's arm. Which never made sense to me because her arm is vaporized but the nameless henchmen literally on the bridge are just fine but they're closer to the explosion.
Was writing a whole ass essay but i was kinda going nowhere so i'll kinda summarize why this is one of my favorite scenes:
-It shows that Silco is still the cold and calculating crimelord he was
-With his ability to breathe the bad air it shows that unlike the others he's never taken his position for granted
-It's a powerful display of authority against characters we don't know/care about, meaning that their reactions can be tailored to be exactly what makes it feel the coolest
-It's a good parallel with the council on the topside, specifically with the situation where Jayce had a target on his back, showing 2 ways of resolving that situation
-It's a great set-up for later scenes
-It expands the undercity from having just one 'leader' to a whole 'council'
-It makes it clear that if Silco keeps messing up there'll be people trying to take over his throne
As usual, amazing analysis, great suggestions and an overall very entertaining video. One of the best channels on youtube, thank you!
Machinae is also a good channel and it makes theories in Russian
@@finezyjnafantazja2495 Посмотрел, отличный канал. Благодарю.
it does it's job of conveying how silco is being percieved at the time, because of his delays and attitude change influenced by jinx, and how from the eyes of the newer generation of the undercity he is starting to look weak. at the same time, it highlights silcos' experience leaving him on a similar yet different position as vander (he saw what happened, he stuck with the undercity in his own way, and now a newer generation, in this case of the mafia, thinks they know better). On that regard, it works on it's own with what we know up to that point, it highlights silco's set of beliefs and the difficulties he has to deal with while jinx is on her ownn madlab doing things and kidnapping her sister lol. Now, on top of that it subtly makes you feel for silco, how time didn't stop for him once vander died, it shows a snbeakpeak at how and what he has to handle, and what are the stakes. The cherry on top of course is how it compliments the moment at vander's statue, but it works on it's own up to here.
On that note, i do think you may be a little misguided about the "good on it's own" idea rom what comes before or after. The showing of a gun under a table doesn0t have to a whole arc in itself; a series works as a whole, not just scene to scene. And could a new viwer skip it? i mean, sure, but then the undercity and silco are left a little hollow honestly, this scene for exammple mirrors vander's situation discussing with a newer generation on what to do in a day to day basis under pressure, now this is silco's context and way of things, a parallel, it connects with with the whole theme of paraleles betwen silco and vander that the series sets up. you can skip it just like you could skip every scene with vander and the enforcers and just go straight from the initial heist to the last fight + vander's death, or skip the concil and just know that some weirdos plus mel made certain decissions eventually, but that's not how a series works. Besides, it is a good scene, it shouldn't be skipped, it build upon the undercity silco sevikka and their inner workings, and just for the voice acting and animation it already is worth watching
What i could empathise with is a guilty pleassure of wanting to see more of finn, but i think if they didn't show more of certain characters it's really a matter of time, not every character can get a full fledged arc in a short series with as many characters unless you count several seasons. They would have had to introduce him earlier, dedicate more on screen time to him, or leave his story to continue in season 2, but i think honestly he is a fine secondary character, i actually appreciate that there's a big main cast, but it doesn't go from main to freaking npcs straight away, there are characters like finn that make the whole thing feel more alive, and the series has enough "big" arcs as is.
I’m obsessed with Finn’s design I absolutely love the metal jaw, it’s sad he wasn’t used much
I think the problem was that nobody cared about Finn's character, just having him in more earlier scenes would have been all that was needed so he would be more compelling
Funny you mention that Finn reminds you of a snake, considering he is voiced by Miyavi, who (together with PVRIS) is the artist behind the song Snakes, which was played during the Hextech-weapons-fight scene with Jayce and Vi. I wonder if that is a coincidence or intentional...
What stuck out to me after thinking about this scene was how Zaun was becoming just like Piltover, in the sense that the chembarons were worried about making financial losses just like the council members. Both of their trade routes were "blocked", for the chembarons it was the bridge and the council it was the Hexgates.
Ironic how Silco wants to free the undercity from Piltover's oppression when he is causing it himself as well. There is now a class divide WITHIN Zaun (the chembarons at the top and the shimmer addicts at the bottom).
theory: they included this subplot cause they made a model for finn and decided it would be too criminal to waste it.
seems like they did set up, these faces are one of the engines of the story at the start of S2
I actually really like these "negative" videos. It opens up room for discussion and also constructive criticism is always appreciated
I don't like fix #2 since it would have the viewer believe that the conflict between silco and the chem barons has already escalated to a point where they would invade his home, while the scene in question is only the introduction of the chem barons. That would mean in order to apply fix #2 we would have to establish the chem barons way earlier and have a conflict between them and silco brewing which then reaches it's boiling point at the last drop. Which would mean more changes to previous events...
Meh, I liked this scene. Especially the little smile as he watched Finn struggle to breath.
My least favorite part of Arcane is Silco dying XD Yeah, silco fan girl here, lol.
I mean who wouldn't, Finn was an ass 🤣
This scene is actually one of my favorites in terms of character development. To me, Silco was a nuanced character behind the scenes, but in terms of his goals, he was a bit cartoony supervillain UNTIL this point. Sure he says he wants to rise up against Piltover to bring freedom to Zaun, and we see why Piltover sucks for the undercity, but in terms of how he operates, we just see him bribing people and dealing drugs as he makes money does other shady stuff. He is just a mafia boss. He is a typical megalomaniacal, power hungry opportunist.
But then this scene contrasts him with the chem barons. And I actually did find myself rooting for one side over the other, because this scene showed me that, hold up, Silco DOES actually stand for something. And as evil as he is, he truly believes in the virtues of his cause, while surrounded by greedy worms just trying to ride his rising star into personal enrichment. Unlike the others, Silco isn't trying to leave the undercity behind because it's a dump. He wants to transform it because it is a part of him. HE still lives in the undercity. HE still breathes the undercity. HE literally has undercity flowing through his veins, something that his eye is a badge of.
When watching this scene, I realized NO ONE is more undercity than Silco. And I started to share his disgust for the chem barons. Greedy and sniveling, but necessary pawns that need to be reminded of their place. And so yeah, I rooted for Silco. Because as indefensible and evil as so many of his actions are, he is basically Zaun's champion.
Wow. 100% agree with this! The best villains are the ones that believe they're the heroes. I love how you said he's basically the embodiment of the undercity and literally has undercity in his veins.
Have your opinions evolved more with the new season, when taken as part of the whole? There is more to it but the fight with Smeech, the infighting between the barons, and the assassination attempt on Jayce by Renni would have less weight if we were less familiar with the barons.
I think the "solutions" you gave were not very good honestly, the dad thing is very like cliche-y daddy's boy takes up business typa deal. I think its great that it happened in that weird room because it's somewhere that Silco is supposedly not in control, but he shows how much he actually is in control of everything. Bringing the gas and being a threat in an enviroment that isn't yours shows a lot of control. I thought the scene was sick as hell, the speech was cool and I just really liked this scene in general, when I watched it it gave me chills
Honestly, i never found this scene that bad. But having Finn as a kid in act 1 would have made it even better
Fun fact, to confirm the editing out and no difference part, when I watched Arcane for the first time I accidentally skipped that episode, I didn't realize I skipped anything until I realized Ekko stuff
I think the point of the chem barons was to establish what the undercity is like now. We don’t like it, along with Silco. The meeting takes place in a high tower above the dank depths that people continue to suffer from. Like a flower spending too much time in the sun. The barons are pathetic because Silco thinks they are pathetic. He sees them as pawns. His true people are the people of the sumps. Not these pigs. But he needs to exert his control over them to keep his financial resources for the war against Piltover.
About the connection point (fix 2) let me give you a tiny example as to how important and massive that fix could have been. Until I watched this video I had _forgotten_ that this scene happened before Jayce and Vi attacked the factory. I remembered it existed but the "when" was foggy, so I remembered the Chem Barons were upset with Silco and my brain put 2 and 2 together. "Oh right, Jayce and Vi just destroyed one of their Shimmer production facilities, of _course_ they want to have a _totally_ innocent (completely not innocent) 'business meeting' with the man who just let this happen."
Then the video reminds me that it _didn't_ and then proposes what I thought had actually happened as a fix. Got a little bit of whiplash there but it really hammered the point home. Even if it was an inviable fix.
The scene happened shortly after Jace ordered a lockdown of the bridge and travel so it makes perfect sense. The talk between Sevika and Silco also happened immediately following a scene of Mel and Jayce talking about a council meeting showing that Silco is a mirror or foil to Jayce at the time. It was the perfect time for the scene as it showed that Silco's grasp on everything was beginning to slip and that the other crime lords would look to replace him if it wasn't fixed soon.