"The truth is, marriages are intensely personal and they are defined not by courts or voters, but by the people who live inside of them." Possibly one of the best commentaries on marriage I have ever heard.
I mean marriage is a procession acknowledge by society or a binding institution. You can, have love life, raise kids and stay together without marriage. Many couple in USA dont marry even normal one. As for most it doesnt seem necesarry.
but isn't marriage a thing by people adhering to their religion? Why can't gay people just invent their own religion with their own set of laws with one saying "this gay religion accepts gay marriage"
@@hetaeramancer some people consider themselves as having no religion and still get married. So rather than religion, marriage is people adhering to their culture instead.
There used to be a video on their channel of him discussing Christian Baker court decision Christian Baker refused to serve a gay couple a wedding cake because of his Christian beliefs Do you know what video I'm talking about?
but isn't marriage a thing by people adhering to their religion? Why can't gay people just invent their own religion with their own set of laws with one saying "this gay religion accepts gay marriage"
@@hetaeramancer No, marriage is not "a thing by people adhering to their religion". Marriage is a social institution, which many religions have tried to usurp.
One of the most crucial points was not mentioned. The reason marriage is between one man and one woman in the first place is because that's how you get a child. There's a strong implied meaning behind it. If you remove that part, then you get to the following questions. Why between a man and a woman? Why not between a man and a man? What's the standard? Why between a man and a man? Why not between 3 women and 2 men? Heck, why not between a man and an animal? Why not between an animal and a child? Why not between 4 men and one inannimate object? It completely trivialises the entire concept of marriage
@@methatis3013 That would also imply that a straight couple who can't have kids or chooses not to have kids also trivializes the concept of marriage. That's ridiculous.
@@veevolt492 well... Yes lol. That's why there is such a high divorce rate. Marriage doesn't mean anything to anyone anymore. And you conveniently chose not to respond to the rest of my point
@@methatis3013 To a logical person the rest of your point would've been nullified by what I wrote, but I see that's not the case here. Like John states in the video, marriage throughout history has been defines as a lifelong pledge of love to another person. This is how most of the world sees marriage regardless of religion or belief. Marriages who don't see it this way are the ones that end in divorce the most. If you divorce someone because they can't make a baby with you, then you didn't love them fully. To answer your other point about what the standard should be for a legal marriage. It should be between any adults above legal age regardless of gender or number of people.
Fun fact: it is because of this video that my partner and I are now married. In the sense of we are married by pre-16th century standards as in we both decided we want to be married. So we are. Boom. Thank you Vlogbrothers for that wonderful moment in my life
"Gay marriage is already happening. It has been happening, in fact, for as long as human beings have been pledging themselves to each other." Hello. I'm bi, and I'm crying because that was unexpectedly beautiful.
WOW have things changed. It is genuinely baffling to me that both this video and Hank's video from a couple of days before were not at all received very well. Seeing the more recnet comments being more well recieved, even from other religious people, shows just how much we've progressed as a society, and it makes me happy to see that positive change.
Thank you so much, John, for having had these types of opinions and points to make even this long ago. Your inclusion of intersex people meant a lot to me back then, and I just *know* that if this was something you talked about today, you would also include gender identity in your recognition of the absurdity of denying people rights. Thank you and Hank for decreasing worldsuck for so long. DFTBA
well the intersex argument is hard to counter. Plus he asks people to define what a marriage is which many people are opposed to do so and any argument in the comments will reference this to attack any argument attempting to or giving reasoning. When there is a obvious rebuttal which no one wants to deal with, aggressive arguments tend to occur rarely and most are quickly dealt with using said rebuttal.
I know this is an old video, but it just popped up on my feed, and I am commenting so that hopefully it can appear on more people's feeds. I think the world needs this.
You know, if I had watched this 10 years ago when it was uploaded, it could have made me stop watching the Greens, which would have been a sore loss for me. I've done a lot of growing up since then and I'm glad to say I'm a better person than I was and I owe at least part of that to watching these two brother talk on the internet.
I am a conservative christian. I believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible, not taken out of context, but the new and old testaments taken as a whole. Whenever I make choices in my life, great or small, the Bible is the principle thing that informs my choices. I believe sexual relations outside of the parameters described in the Bible, ARE in rebellion to God's will, my definition of sin. BUT...these are my beliefs, my choices. The laws of this country do not exist to force others to conform to my beliefs. The laws of this country exist to protect people and property. No one needs protection from consenting adults in the privacy of their own home. All of us need protection to pursue the mandates of our conscience, so long as we ourselves are not harming other people or their property in that pursuit. As much as I believe that homosexual relationships defy God's will, I also believe so called anti-homosexual marriage laws violate freedom of religion. Ultimately, people marry based on their own specific set of morals, beliefs and ethics, and while some are uncomfortable calling this their religion, I believe they are in the same family and should be protected in the same manner. Examples of sexual practices that should be prohibited by law: pedophilia, bestiality, rape, any form of prostitution that is exploitive. Why these and not gay marriage? Simple. The law is to protect people and property. Homosexual adults are consenting and of an age to consent. The other sexual practices I listed harm someone who does not consent, who is vulnerable and needs the protection of the law. Examples of sexual practices that violate my personal beliefs about God's law, but that should NOT be prohibited by law: adultery, sex outside marriage, homosexual sex, prostitution where the prostitute is not being exploited or coerced, but is in charge of the transaction. (The assumption being with all of these that all parties are consenting adults.) Why? There is neither property or a person that needs to be protected by the law. ( On a side note, bigamy, where all are adults that consent, should be lawful. I think it's impractical, and I can think of a few notable examples in the Bible where it made for some pretty toxic family dynamics, but I digress...) We need to realize in this country that while we do have a right to our constitutionally-protected freedoms, we do not have a right to be un-offended. The law does not exist to make you feel like everyone agrees with you and prevent another person's viewpoint from hurting your feelings. I write this to Christians, Atheists, Homosexuals, Heterosexual, whatever... "Tolerance" is not demanding that everyone conforms to your version of rightness, AND DEMONIZING THEM WHEN THEY DON'T. Tolerance is respecting the rights of all people in this country to have their own life and own opinion, so long as they are not physically hurting someone (I'm sorry, words definitely hurt but it is impractical in most cases to legislate hurt feelings), or destroying others property. And remember that generally offensive opinions are a TWO-WAY street. Usually if someone's opinion or choices offend YOU, YOUR opposite opinion or choices are equally offensive to THEM. We need to celebrate that we have the privilege of being an diverse country because that means our own person is provided for, and bear patiently the inescapable side effect of a generally free society: hurt feelings when others think we are wrong-- being respectful to each other anyway! (And prosecuting the crap out of someone when they are not good stewards of those freedoms--whether it's firing a gun into a church or beating a LGBT person, or any person!!!)
I totally agree with this line of reasoning. While I'm a Christian that isn't sure personally that homosexual acts are sinful or not (honestly I just don't know), I don't feel like it should be made illegal as it is a personal belief and is, as you say, an act between consenting adults anyway. Like John said, marriage is a personal thing, and, whether the law recognizes the marriages or not they are still marriages. When this went to vote in NC (where I'm from), I would hear some more conservative Christians say that they wanted to stop the marriages from happening for this reason, and I argued that they were still happening anyway and their not recognizing them wouldn't make the marriage/connection disappear because it wasn't an issue of law anyway. Just as marriage between slaves weren't recognized by law, they were still married in the religious sense. I guess, my opinion on law making often can be summarized by this Thomas Jefferson quote, " It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own." In other words, live and let live so long as it is not harming others, and, if we don't want others to be able to mandate our free will, we shouldn't do it to others - golden rule ftw. :)
J.G. Janz I think you have a healthy perspective. However, I am curious about this... *"I believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible, not taken out of context, but the new and old testaments taken as a whole."* Are you a Fundamentalist? By *"context"*, do you mean only Scriptural context, or do you mean all context?
I really appreciate that you respect that your beliefs don't define anyone else's life, and that you can be happy for others to practise things that you wouldn't. I think that makes you pretty awesome :) However, I'm just curious, how do you think, from the perspective of the individuals rather than the behaviour, that gay people are rebelling against God's will? It's not a choice they're making, it's just who they are, so according to your beliefs, God has made them to be gay. So far the only response to this I've heard is that it becomes a choice when they choose to act on it which is when it becomes a sin, but then I don't understand how an all-loving God would want people to spend their lives alone or denying who they really are. So yeah, I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts :)
Today the SCOTUS ruled for marriage equality. Most of the anger I see about this decision is the same rhetoric that "God made marriage between one man and one woman." So yes, even 3 years later, this video is still relevant. It will probably remain relevant for many years to come. Whenever I have a friend pull out the religion thing, this is my go to video because it explains the situation more calmly, better thought out, and more rational than I could ever do myself because it has been an issue which affected me directly. Thank you John Green.
Joseph Laser I was surprised because he said something 100% wrong. Divorce is part of the religion Islam. If you don't like your husband/wife it is legal in Islam to divorce. "Until death do us part" is I think Christian concept. So muslims can never say "God made marriage between ONE man and ONE woman." And another reason this is wrong is because a muslim man can can have 4 wives. So obviously one man and one woman rule is not for Islam.
Maryam Hussein Old post, but a correction: In Islam, husbands are allowed to divorce their wives, but wives cannot divorce. They can seek divorce which will be decided by a judge if her reasons for divorce are not un-Islamic.
You’re probably not surprised to hear that the right people were given 7 years ago is now under a court that could easily decide that it is no longer a right.
I think people associate homophobia with religion too much. Sadly it's pretty widespread, even state atheist countries like the Soviet states, China, kind of North Korea, and others were all pretty homophobic. The same has been true, off and on, with many "philosophy as a religion" kind of countries like South Korea and Japan. Humans often have an inate fear of "the other", especially when they have first contact. The greeks and Roman's felt anyone outside their culture was a barbarian, part man and part beast. The Chinese thought anyone outside of their cultural sphere were barbarians, uncultured beasts. For a time many Europeans thought those outside of their race were literally sub human. For many people "gay" was something purely hypothetical, like telling someone from Kansas what the ocean is like in a time before TV; she won't know the roar and the spray of endless tides until she goes to the coast. Now suddenly they find out the 2 roommates down the street only had 1 bed, your coworker has a rainbow flag on her desk, and your cousin starts identifying with "they"/"them" pronouns. When my grandma was a nurse in the psych ward homosexulaity was a rarity and a disease, then my uncle introduced her to his boyfriend, and my aunt admitted her roommate wasn't just her roommate and at first it was sort of a shamefull secret, but now it's an open fact. Many of the first countries to recognize marriage equality were Christian majority and we're seeing the same attitude crop up in some Islamic countries and in East Asia and in "folk religion" countries like Vietnam.
This is awesome. A guy who calls himself a Christian, whose writing is the voice of our generation today, and is pro gay marriage. We need more people like this!
I just want to marry my japanese boyfriend so that we can have the same RIGHTS as everyone else. If a black man can marry a white woman, a white man marry more than one woman (Utah...), and straight people marry and divorce, then why not just let me marry to a man. It makes more sense than most.
I have a lot of gay friends and I believe that they should e able to have the same rights as my wife and I. That being said the word marriage has a much deeper meaning that a union between a man and wife. Also your argument about one man being able to marry more than one woman in Utah isn't entirely true, in fact it is illegal. Yup illegal, but it doesn't mean they don't do it. I'm all for you having the same rights, but a lot of my friends in the gay community argue that marriage is just a word and that they want the word and the rights that come with it. My only thing is that if just a word to them why does it matter as long as they( and the homosexual community as a whole) have the same rights as my wife and I do, when we believe that marriage is much more that just a word?
Nate Broberg What about the people who fall outside of the stereotype of marriage being "just a word to them" and genuinely believe marriage is an important step in a relationship? You can't just lump people together like that.
The whole reason I said that is because it is one of the biggest argument points in many of the debates. That being said I understand that there are people in the LGBT community that genuinely believe that marriage is more than just a word. But in the same turn isn't it unfair to lump all members of the LDS faith together when saying that Mormon's don't support equal rights for gays, or any other religion? No it's not fair. When it comes right down to it, I don't think congress/courts/the president/politicians should be deciding on whether people can be married or not. I believe that is up to the people and the religion the belong to- or in some cases don't belong to. How I have felt since this whole argument came up is that the government should just call what is now a Marriage License a License of Union, for everybody, and give all the same rights that Married people now enjoy to everybody that has taken part in a License of Union. Then in turn for anybody to be Married it requires something more- e.g. a religious leader or someone who will marry that also has the ability to join people into a lawful union. There are many religions that will Marry anyone, and in the same respect many that will not because it is against what they believe. I just don't want to see the day come when the government looks at a religion and says "You must marry these people because it is the law." completely circumventing one of the main reasons our forefathers came to this continent, freedom of religion without persecution. So here's to a License of Union, heck if it'd been around when I got Married I'd have two separate things on my wall displayed so all could see. A Certificate of Union and a Certificate of Marriage, heck who doesn't like to have more certificates?
Nate Broberg I understand that your argument is not in fact condeming gay marriage, and like you said earlier you would like gay people to have exactly the same rights as your wife and yourself, which is a standpoint I agree with :) However, I'd like to comment on a point you mentioned (the one you said was 'one of the biggest argument points in many of the debates'). That argument is: if marriage is "just a word", some people say, why is it such a big deal to the LGBT community that they be allowed to use it? Well, that argument can be reversed effortlessly: if marriage is "just a word", why is it such a big deal that we deny it to the LGBT community? At worst, denying them the word is denying them legitimacy in the social and legal context. At best, it's "you can't have that word because we say so", and that's just plain bullying, which is petty and immoral. So in my opinion, that particular argument that people have been throwing around is flawed and an indulgence of meanness.
ignorance is bliss. People fear what they do not understand. The times have changed and people will realize they will need to adapt. I'm tired of gay men pretending to be straight and marrying straight women and playing on the side and breaking their hearts. That is even crueler than not allowing gay marriage.
I would like to point out a very important fact, there are the 10 commandments and there is the bible. The commandments state: You shall have no other gods before Me. You shall not make idols. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Honor your father and your mother. You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. You shall not covet. The most frequently quoted line in the bible that states anything about gay sex/marriage is by Leviticus 18:22 "You shall not lie with a man as you do a woman, it is an abomination." However when we take a closer look we realise that the Levitical laws were rules limiting the "Ancient Jews", in the new testament Jesus Christ throws out these laws along with the laws that forbid eating pig, these laws no longer apply to the christian/catholic world. The 10 commandments simply state (in terms of sex), by the word of Our Father that adultery shall not be committed and one MUST be married before sexual relations arise. These were the words of the lord. Now how many may I ask of you work on a sunday? How many of you say "Oh My God!", how many of you have not honoured your parents, how many of you have lusted after another when already committed, how many of you have stolen, how many of you have lied and how many of you have had sex before marriage. If we are to talk about the sanctity of marriage in terms of the bible then those who have had sex before marriage and who have committed adultery should be stoned. If you are to use the bible, a book that endorses love, forgiveness and kindness, to hide behind your own personal prejudices is to not live by the word of God and by doing so are the least respectful of your religion. To disallow two people to get married but to go ahead and eat pork is the highest form of hypocrisy. Do not use the bible to justify your personal prejudices, God is the almighty loving being and to discriminate a group of people by using him is the severest form of sin.
No actually it is also in the New Testament, in several places, reaffirming that it is indeed an unnatural abomination for men to lie with men as with a women. Romans chapter one for example. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. (Biblegateway.com Romans Chapter 1) This is pretty darn clear. I am do not condemn anyone, I am just reporting what the Bible clearly says. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and if we truly love our friends and loved ones we lead them to a knowledge of the truth and don't leave them to die in sin and lies. I have had many gay friends over the years they are dear to me. I have been able to be their friends and still stand for the truth without throwing it in their faces. However, you young Christians need to learn to let your lights shine with love AND truth. Love is not just a sympathetic heart (though that is a very good start). Love is also, standing firm in truth and not wavering, no matter how badly you feel watching someone suffer in their sins. We can catch them when they fall and bind up their wounds but we should not encourage them to feel good about sin.
Makemeaspark Laurion The only problem I have with this is the definition of "shameful acts." I mean, Christians think romantic relations between a man and a woman is not shameful as long as it happens within a marriage. However does that mean that the same romantic relation between two men is shameful even when it is within a marriage? I mean, anyone would agree that the Bible clearly states lustful acts are bad, and obviously that means that lustful acts between two men or two women would be just as bad as between a man and a woman, but, in the case of a heterosexual relationship, the Bible says those same actions cease to be lustful once performed within the boundaries of a marriage. Is this different for homosexual relationships simply because they are homosexual? To my knowledge, the Bible does not say that two men or two women cannot get married, it simply states that two men or two women cannot commit lustful acts with one another, which it also says the same thing about a man and a woman. Not to start an argument or even a debate, but I am interested as to how one would counter that with evidence from the Bible. I mean, from my past experience as a Christian, I always felt that God was more about people honoring their commitments and loving one another unconditionally, rather than categorizing and restricting love based on things like gender, religion, etc. Also I figured God would be more against people getting divorced and remarried ten thousand times than gay people getting married and honoring that commitment forever.
If you love someone, and are willing to make that commitment to them, then absolutely get married. Make that promise to them. I don't care what sex you identify as. Find someone you love, and who loves you, and be happy in life.
I’ll never understand how people can personally believe gay marriage is a sin, and try to force that view on others. The first amendment is pretty clear on religion and how the US shouldn’t establish one for all.
@@joshuaemrich7785 What loving and respectful Muslims do around the world is the same as everyone else. You don't judge all Christians by the Christian nutjobs who murder abortion doctors or who shoot Jews in their synagogues, so perhaps try employing the same non-prejudiced reasoning to Muslims too?
Wow... This is the first time I have heard anyone that has brought up intersex when discussing this issue. It seems like a very difficult thing for one man one women people to argue against.
I know this video was from six years ago, but I stumbled upon it once again. I love how you mentioned that not all people in a certain religion believe that gay marriage is bad. This is very true because I am Muslim and many of my friends and peers who also share the same religion are either part of the LGBTQ+ community as well, or support it. Just because someone is part of a certain religion that is not in favor of LGBTQ+ relationships, doesn’t mean EVERYONE in the religion believes so. Like many of my Christian friends have quite unsupportive parents when it comes to this subject matter, but they themselves are very supportive or even gay themselves. Just a thought. Thank you, John.
2023 comment from an Aussie. Hey USA, what happened to all the great strides you made in equality, personal freedom and equity? I think you broke humanity.
I don’t think the US made any great strides. They had some personal growth moments like with the stonewall riots or with the civil rights movement, but other parts of the world were already ahead of them. In honesty, they have always been behind the times in terms of social or economic equality.
Also an aussie chiming in to remind you that the US only codified protections for same-sex marriage (actually effectively legalising it) LAST YEAR. The 2015 legalisation didn't come about by congressional action, but because someone managed to push a relevant case to a favourable supreme court.
We're doing what we can! Our electoral system is just really stupid and some weird criminal managed to make himself president for four years, against the wishes of the general populace. He's getting indicted on espionage charges now, which should help, but he did a lot of damage on his way out and fixing everything he trashed is gonna be a ton of work. Oh, hey, you're in Australia? I don't suppose you could get rid of Rupert Murdoch, could you? He's not done either of our lands any favors. :P
@@Fralexion It is still a really interesting question as to "WHO" gets to decide when the civil rights movement ends. Who gets to decide we have had enough rights for now and we should focus on other issues? It isn't conservatives, because if they had their way there never would have been any civil rights movement in the first place. It isn't liberals because they always support civil rights. It is the type of person who initially supports civil rights but backs off of it when """"the left has gone too far""". This type of personality decides when civil rights movements begin and when they end. More research definitely needs to be conducted on this type of personality. I know dozens of these people and I am sure you do to. If it were up to Liberals there would always be new civil rights legislation being pass all the time. if it were up to conservatives then no civil rights legislation would ever get passed. Movements start with a vibe and end with a vibe. There is no systematic nature to it. They don't always last a certain number of years or end when a certain degree of rights are achieved. They end on random dates and in random places with half baked legislation that was always meant to be a temporary measure until more equal legislation could be passed in the future.
Kevin Hambleton I'm not talking about his personalitiy, but about how he handle the topic of gay marriage even when it contradicts his religious belief. Besides that he's also a nice person and, thought I think religious is most of the time a depicable thing, a lot of religious people are nice too.
I completely agree with you Mr.Green. It's no Different than discriminating against religion. What someone chooses to believe is their right under the constitution and we have no right to discriminate against them because of their beliefs and quite frankly the fact that it happens is just sad. Thank you for making the point point that I have been thinking of for months.
For all those who see the latest comments, let this be a warning: DON'T SCROLL DOWN. Don't. If you are a good person, you'll be very brought down by the stupidity, and if you are a bigot, your small dried up brain will hurt from the arguments against your point. There is only pain in this comment thread. Leave, for your own sake.
Honestly personal lives are not the place for anyone to set rules or regulations. Religion shouldn't go anywhere past beliefs in god and government should only get involved with things that affect other people. If someones personal life isn't negatively affecting anyone else, then nobody has the right to say that it is wrong
Although this was posted years ago, this is still so incredibly relevant. This guy has always been a grounding and informational force for me, especially in this video as a person of the LGBTQ+ community. I appreciate this so much 🤍🤍
Hello. As a member of one of those religious institutions that see homosexuality for what is, a sin, hopefully you will find a way to get through that sin and be closer to God. People tend to think that religious people hate homosexuals, but that was never what God wants. God just wants everyone to understand sin and help each other through it.
@@SaintSobaHello. Other people that aren't in your religion shouldn't be forced to obey a rule in your religion if it doesn't hurt anybody, and marriage to the same sex definitely doesn't hurt anybody
@@Lizard_Ri Other people that aren't in "my" religion (God's word, aka the truth) are frankly, going to hell. Unlike you, I actually care about people and don't want that, so I will do anything in my power to prevent that. Also if you actually do literally any research about the detrimental effects of homosexuality on the people involved, their children, and society as a whole. You would rethink your stance even in a secular only view.
+Vince Fernandez I like people like you. I'm glad you are accepting. Do you believe in the god of the Bible? If so, why do you think it is okay to ignore the verses that clearly state that homosexuality is wrong? I'm not a Christian or trying to start an argument. I'm just curious.
+Samuel Lee John 3:16 sums it up in my opinion. God loved the world so much that He sent us a Savior. I believe that someone's sexual orientation will never stop God from loving them.
+Julia Levelle I understand that, but what about the verses that clearly condemn homosexuality? Are you just choosing to ignore them? If so, why is that okay?
+Vince Fernandez What evidence do you have that he preached love and faith? Did you meet with him? Did you record his preachings? Do you even have a selfie with him? Or is all this made up without any shred of evidence?
I have been a homophobe like many of the people here who hate on us. Saying homosexuality is bad I almost died being straight, I almost took my life from something I wasn't, I almost left everyone I loved for something I wasn't, I went through pain after pain after pain broken relationships, the lgbt being accepted, no finding love I was going crazy I just wanted to die. But you know even though I was hurt jesus gave me a second chance, he got me up and changed me I never liked men I always hated on lgbt people, then one day out of no where I grew a big amount of love on men and ever since the day I came out my life has never been better. I have been happier, supporting, helpful, I was much more intelligent, I was able to help my family, my depression went away, and so on I am in peace and it's all thanks to god. And this can prove to you homophobes that I was just like you exactly like you but god got me out of my sadness and I have never been happier ever since. Amen 🙏. Get this message everywhere so everyone learns that you can be both gay and christian.
Yeah religion can cause a ton of issues. That's why I'm anti-theist but it would be a terrible idea to try to ban religion. The real solution is teaching people to question if their beliefs are unfounded from a young age. There have been so many people killed because of religion (directly or indirectly) and that is not something that should be ignored.
Should have also mentioned that marriage is not an invention by Judeo-Christian religions, but can be traced back even to the first human civilizations and was very likely always a mere contract between two (and sometimes more) people to find an agreement on how to share and inherit property and wealth. Most of Christians' understanding of Marriage, as that kind of romanticized thing is extremely young and modern. I'd say for at least three millennia people only married because of financial reasons (and of course to inherit a throne or other important posiition in a country) and not out of love. Even after Christianity came around in Europe that hold true, you only need to peak into the crazy arranged marriages between nobilities until the 19th century. There is a reason why the whole "young girl is married to sadistic but rich douche, actually wants to marry the farmer's son but can't" trope became so popular in fiction around that time. Also about the "didn't marry in churches" thing: apparently the majority of regular people (so more than the half of europe's population) could only symbolically marry, because they were too piss poor to even pay for the whole thing.
i am religious and everytime someone say bullshit like god hates gays i get really angry,because my religion says he loves EVERYONE...and we should do the same....love everyone,treat everyone as equals...
I agree. I was never taught that homosexuality was bad in any shape or form whatsoever. Just the idea that being gay is bad makes no sense to me. Love is about giving yourself up for another person.
I agree. Sadly, my mom taught me that homosexuals are bad. I started to be more religious (Muslim) at age 8, and all the rules that we have to follow are so stupid. I just got so tired of it and started to hate religion. Anyways, my moms hate for homosexuals really showed when it was pride month (2019). I was so mad at her but I didn’t wanna say anything. Turns out I’m an asexual homoromantic. I remember my mom being mad that my sister (she’s 25) wanted to travel alone. She said what if she’s lying and she’s going to travel with boys and all I was thinking is jokes on you, I like girls.
I don't know if you are a male or a female but imagine if you were a woman but your entire life you felt like a man trapped inside a woman's body can you imagine the confusion that would bring how lost you would feel. to answer your question yes we have been bigoted for decades it is just now coming into the public eye though just like how it is still racist to discriminate against black people even if you live in 3rd century Italy even if no one cares of calls it bigotry but I would also like to say that this issue is being blown way out of proportion transgender people make up 0.03% of the population so the odds are that if some law is passed saying you can use the bathroom you identify as you would never even be in the same bathroom as a transgender person to care. Besides you can't even tell most transgender people from their gender of choice so the vast majority of people shouldn't care at all what bathrooms transgender people use, so why not let them use what they want?
***** The people in charge of north Carolina were chosen by those who live there which means that the people in charge of north Carolina hold the same views (or similar enough) as the people they represent that's the way democratic republics like the united states work.
I'm a Christian and although I may not agree with everything you said, I want to thank you for posting this informative video. You presented yourself not only intelligently, but respectfully. I appreciate that. I think we need more sharing like this.
I'm religious. I'm not gay. I'm also under 18 and, as I've concluded, I'm much more mature than most adults. My religion does not define my beliefs. As a Christian I'm told that it's a sin or whatever but if that is what it means to be Christian then I don't know what I want to believe. When we were kids we were all told to be ourselves and to not worry about what others think but when we grow up and begin to discover our sexuality and discover who we truly are, those same people immediately turn around and tell us what is right and what is wrong. What happened to everyone accepting who we are? Isn't it just easier to let other be free to be who they'd like? So let them be.
You know Lida I'm thinking about not following religion much anymore because God is more hate than love now and can't accept people for who they are. If that is the God there is then I don't want him.
I guess its 12 years ago. Thanks google. This video aged well. The arguments are good and presented well, if a bit fast, though that was the style. It's also sadly still extremely relevant. It's also exhausting. 12 years, and it's the same tired religious arguments again and again and again, even after a million responses. Here in 2024, It's hard not to imagine another 100 years without this feeling relevant.
Note that four years later and we have actually come a long way. Sometimes it's hard to tell that we've changed, with all the hatred, but a large portion of comments on these videos are now positive. It's a tiny little start.
So glad you made this video. I think that since you became so identifiable with the younger generation i.e teenagers, this video could help those who come from a traditional/conservative background to accept the fact that, whether they like it or not, gay marriages are human rights and are already happening. You can never stop people from living their rights. Thank you John Green, you have truly made a difference in the lives of millions of young people.
Hanks video about this got recommended to me 11 years later and now this ones getting recommended to me now Im happy about it, I'd never seen them before!
My mom, who was accepting of homosexuality, started watching TBN (a Christian TV network) and now she thinks homosexuality is a sin and gays will burn in hell. I'm very frustrated by this.
I was scared to scroll down but I'm actually surprised at how supportive these comments are, like it's a huge suprise after things I've seen and I don't feel discouraged for who I am. The internet is a good place for once.
Oh I love you. Everytime I find a person like you, I gain a little of faith in humanity. And then I see the commenn this kind of videos and it just disappears again. I really have to learn to ignore the comments.
Goddamn it EQUAL RIGHTS FOR EVERYONE OKAY? Please, please please please, follow you religion and believe in it and worship it as much as you like. BUT DONT FORCE YOUR BELIEFS ONTO OTHERS AND OPRESS THEM FOR IT. Just because you believe something, doesn't mean everyone else has to too.
I'm a Christian and agree with John and it bothers me sooo much that there are Christians out there who don't accept it. A real christian is accepting of everybody.
@@ashtuatara but isn't marriage a thing by people adhering to their religion? Why can't gay people just invent their own religion with their own set of laws with one saying "this gay religion accepts gay marriage"
Sometimes it strikes me that gay marriage only became legal nationally for US in 2015 and I see videos like this that aren’t that old but came out 3 years before and it’s very disorienting
I have come across this video quite often and I have never been sick of watching it. The points made in both this and Hank's video are just incredible. I am honestly left astounded by how anyone can argue against them.
GAH. This video makes me so happy. You guys don't even know. I'm straight, and entirely female, but that doesn't negate the right to other people being happy. And because I fall into a category people consider "normal" or "socially acceptable" doesn't mean that I hate on people who are considered not to be. Yes, I am a Christian. Yes, I believe that God created men and women to be together but that does not mean that He does not love those who believe- and feel - otherwise. Gods grace covers all people. When will the world finally learn that?
Agreed. What would solve this issue is educating and implementing the difference between a marriage of the state and a marriage of god. While were at it, lets make the metric system standard in the US.
As a conservative Christian, I would love to see the total separation of church and state, in marriage and in everything else.(Here in the UK we are still constitutionally an Anglican country, and that leads to all kinds of trouble for the Church of England and some weirdness for the State).
I'm neither religious or gay, but i want to say something. As John said, their marriage doesn't affect yours. The bible was written a really, really long time ago, and i think it's weird some people still consider living after it. The People who wrote the bible had great points back then, but they doesn't fit in todays society anymore. You can still marry the classical way and be happy, others may arent. All religious people say god loves everyone, and i think that's true, becaue your sexual orientation doen't define you as a human being!
Problem is people don't see how ridiculous it is to base your life any document written in a complete different way of mentality. If only everyone can have your mentality.
The age of a text does not determine its validity. The Bible is still extremely relevant to our society today, and contains ideas are still important in this time.
Its also interesting to note that while other churches in my area are actively and deliberately refusing gay couples and individuals even entrance into their churches, the Local episcopal church next door to my home (actually just down the street) is welcoming all into their fold with open arms no matter what their belief, race gender and sexual preference is. The pastor of that church who is a wonderful fellow preaches a message of love and forgiveness to all, not this segregation and hate of someone simply because of their sexual preference. That fellow is an example of what a Christian SHOULD be, not these intolerant bigoted idiots intent on segregation a certain part of our population because of something their buying into they THINK their bibles say.
+Lisa winn “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” -Mahatma Gandhi. Seems like the Epicopal church is taking following the footsteps of Christ seriously.
Exactly, Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Christian myself,( I'm an Atheist) but I can recognize and respect someone like this pastor that actually does his best to live according to the tenants and teachings of the religion he believes in unlike many so called Christians buying into the dogma of mainstream religion that teaches intolerance, bigotry and in some cases ( wbc) outright hatred.
Same here. And I don't hate Christianity I must point out, but I am very quick to expose the flaws in the logic of those perverting it to suit their own dogma. I mean, would real, died in the wool Christian get in your face with a megaphone for example? make a public spectacle of themselves? no, they would approach you softly, gently and talk to you about what they believe and be respectful and leave you be when you tell them not interested, not try to ram it down peoples throats.
I have to repost this part because it´s so good: "We need to realize in this country that while we do have a right to our constitutionally-protected freedoms, we do not have a right to be un-offended. The law does not exist to make you feel like everyone agrees with you and prevent another person's viewpoint from hurting your feelings." (Part of a long post by a Christian, reposted by an atheist - we disagree with what the other says, but will defend their right to say it. And live it. Go democracy!)
Laura Mundy "There's no point in continuing the conversation." Probably the truest statement here. The sad part is I don't think any of you disagree, it's just that this argument is hugely based on useless semantics. ***** Aaron isn't anti-gay. Far from it actually. He says so himself and actually makes a good point. Anyway, here is another good list to go with your other one, though it's in slideshow format. It includes companies like Apple, American Apparel, Tide, Target, and Ford. www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/29/pro-lgbt-companies-holiday-shopping_n_4356335.html ***** "you are making an incorrect assumption that only homosexuals are good best workers." He didn't say that, but I can see why you might have thought he did. What he's saying is there are great gay workers out there on top of the non-gay ones, and they won't consider working for an anti-gay company, and neither will the pro-gay straight workers, so those companies will have less of a pool to choose the best employees they can find from. You're right that some businesses seek to save money by not having to pay out benefits. It seems people are mistaking that view with the assumption you think businesses won't make money supporting gay marriage, as there is a difference between saving money on benefit payouts and making it on increased sales. I think you understand that difference. The main thing here is we're all for gay marriage because we all realize not only how equal rights are important, but how useful gay marriage can be in society. P.S. "the percentage of people who are homosexual in this country number less than 2 percent," It might actually be as high as 10%, but it's most likely hovering around 4-6%. (See? Useless semantics.)
Well that just isn't true, that if someone can't get married, then no one can get married. The government, (sadly, democrats most of the time) is known for discriminating against people and treating different people differently and using different laws as if all people shouldn't treated the same legally. We as a democracy should defend the equal treatment of all citizens ensure the church and state stays separate.
Well, they don't. Technically. You can marry whoever you want. But if you want your government to recognize your marriage and give you tax breaks, lower insurance, and all that lower-price stuff because you with someone. Then they get say in what they recognize.
It’s only been legal in the US for five years and already it’s hard for me to imagine it being “illegal”. I’ve been with my husband fifteen years. We finally got married in 2015, after Obergefell. And, just as I predicted, the right threw a fit in the immediate aftermath, then quickly moved on to something else because the American people los interest once they realized it had no effect on their lives. Now hardly anyone bats an eye at it. Which is exactly how it should be.
ok my problem with making marriage that happens to be between two people of the same sex illegal is this, while I would be totally fine giving my girlfriend a ring and telling her I am committed to her for life the problem is when one of us gets cancer and cant leave the hospital because legally we aren't related in any way and so could not see each other or use our insurance for each other which is just plain wrong. To those of you married people against gay marriage I want to ask how you would feel if your husband or wife was dying in the hospital and you couldn't see them because other people had decided your marriage made them uncomfortable.
Thank you for this ;) I know I’m like 7 almost 8 years late but this really helped me feel better about myself since I’m gay and have been told I can’t get married to a woman if I love god.
I am a Christian and my wife is a Christian. We are also both inherently sinful people. But our marriage was blessed by God. Who are we to deny the word of God to gay people or to anyone at all?
Thank you very much for this video. I always appreciate it when someone gives their thoughts and why the think them as it gives people knowledge and hopefully broadens their empathy just a bit more.
I think he explains it beautifully. And being a Gay man in a relationship with my loving husband for the past 17 years, I would have to say that I wholeheartedly agree with him. You have a right to your religion and beliefs, but you don't have a right to impose them on others.
It is interesting to observe the extent to which this video is both still relevant and also partially outdated. For example, gender identity was not mentioned at 1:06 but the fact of nonbinary people was brought up. Both out of date, but also still recent.
I just want to say that although I'm a Brit and many of your fabulous videos are tangential to my life. I am completely hooked on them. I love your delivery and your wit and the clarity of your argument. Total fan.
hey john green, i love how you say that sex=gender. i love being a gay transgender boy whose sex is what you would call "female", and how you are telling me that i am a female because of this sex. i love how you're you're totally ignoring and invalidating my identity and so many others' in this video. i also love how you're saying that intersex folk are not male or female, when i know for a fact that most people who are intersex, for a fact, are either one of those. keep up the good work teen whisperer. and keep teaching the entire world that transgender and intersex folk have invalid identities! i really appreciate it!
Dw, this kind of video just breeds attention from the worst kinds of people. Just be glad they're not getting mass upvoted compared to the rest of the comments.
Even tho this is an old video, I am so glad that both this and Hank's video on this topic exist. With how out of control people are about hating lgbtq+ people (primarily because of the dailywire+), this was a huge breath of fresh air to me. People fail to understand that humans are unique and that non typical things are in fact natural. People suddenly believe that people are trying to appropriate womanhood, "mutilate" themselves, groom children, and take away "real" womens rights. Then they use very extreme pictures of horrible disgusting things happening in front of kids saying "See what they're doing!" They treat them like a hivemind that all does the exact same thing. A lot more crap is happening that I don't have to explain (look at twitter and certain laws going into effect).
What is a man wants to have sex with his brother ? they are humans too . common sense says its not good same for homosexuality, most of the ppl see it as an immoral act
@@MM-pk3rl why is homosexuality immoral though? people have been gay and trans for thousands of years, it's just as natural as being straight or cis. give a reason, completely unrelated to religion, for why being queer is immoral. a reason with merit and weight- not just 'it's unnatural' or something like that. why is the act of a man loving another man, or a woman another woman, inherently bad?
Shaving one's beard is listed as a sin much more frequently in the Bible than gay marriage. So unless you've never shaved, you have no room throw a stone at gay people. In other words, don't be intolerant over another biblical abiding imperfection, unless you are as perfect as Jesus supposedly was.
And in India, we are still sweeping it under the rug and discriminating (and mixing up) gay and trans people, even though trans people (specifically trans women) have been a part of our culture and considered a good omen since ancient times and are recognized as a third gender according to law
I can't believe that this debate was 11 years ago. It feels like a long settled issue. And of course John Green was on the right side of history with this one, as he seems to be with everything.
Ok, I am a Christian, but I support Gay Marriage. Yes, almost unheard of I know. But I have researched everything I could in the bible that apparently states gay's aren't allowed, the only things I've found is that one cannot bed with another of the same gender for LUST ONLY. Which is the same for EVERYONE! So the whole, 'The bible says NO on getting married because you love the other gay person' is wrong. The bible only says no to having sex with someone strictly for Lust and not for actually Love. So if you actually love the person you're marrying, I really hope so, than go crazy. Also, the bible speaks of giving forgiveness and kindness, so every single Christian/Catholic hating on gay people for going against the bible are also going against the bible as well. I have stated my case, go nuts.
This video is important and necessary. John and Hank I appreciate eveything you do for this community, keep up the good work you do for all disenfranchised communities. lu. see u in the next video.
"The truth is, marriages are intensely personal and they are defined not by courts or voters, but by the people who live inside of them."
Possibly one of the best commentaries on marriage I have ever heard.
I mean marriage is a procession acknowledge by society or a binding institution.
You can, have love life, raise kids and stay together without marriage. Many couple in USA dont marry even normal one. As for most it doesnt seem necesarry.
but isn't marriage a thing by people adhering to their religion?
Why can't gay people just invent their own religion with their own set of laws with one saying "this gay religion accepts gay marriage"
@@hetaeramancer some people consider themselves as having no religion and still get married. So rather than religion, marriage is people adhering to their culture instead.
@@hetaeramancer Because I don't want to have a religion.
Except it isn’t true. A marriage is a three way legal contract between two people and the state. That’s it. It’s basically a personal business merger.
Honestly, eight years later this still holds up, I feel like that's special. Really appreciated the inclusion of intersex people in this conversation.
There used to be a video on their channel of him discussing Christian Baker court decision
Christian Baker refused to serve a gay couple a wedding cake because of his Christian beliefs
Do you know what video I'm talking about?
but isn't marriage a thing by people adhering to their religion?
Why can't gay people just invent their own religion with their own set of laws with one saying "this gay religion accepts gay marriage"
Yep... 9 yrs now.
@@hetaeramancer No, marriage is not "a thing by people adhering to their religion". Marriage is a social institution, which many religions have tried to usurp.
I think it would be better if it didnt hold up tho
I am not against non-traditional marriages.
I am very opposed to theme weddings.
hahaha well said! very tacky.
Liberals.
Apples and Grapes for dinner Yeah, liberals don't hate nobody.
We suck that way...
That's fine.
Waltham1892 liberals tend to hate Christians in my experience. And tax payers. republicans.. people who vouch for freedom.. etc.
"Those marriages won't affect yours". Such a simple concept that so many can't seem to understand.
One of the most crucial points was not mentioned. The reason marriage is between one man and one woman in the first place is because that's how you get a child. There's a strong implied meaning behind it. If you remove that part, then you get to the following questions.
Why between a man and a woman? Why not between a man and a man? What's the standard? Why between a man and a man? Why not between 3 women and 2 men? Heck, why not between a man and an animal? Why not between an animal and a child? Why not between 4 men and one inannimate object? It completely trivialises the entire concept of marriage
@@methatis3013 That would also imply that a straight couple who can't have kids or chooses not to have kids also trivializes the concept of marriage. That's ridiculous.
@@veevolt492 well... Yes lol. That's why there is such a high divorce rate. Marriage doesn't mean anything to anyone anymore. And you conveniently chose not to respond to the rest of my point
@@methatis3013 To a logical person the rest of your point would've been nullified by what I wrote, but I see that's not the case here. Like John states in the video, marriage throughout history has been defines as a lifelong pledge of love to another person. This is how most of the world sees marriage regardless of religion or belief. Marriages who don't see it this way are the ones that end in divorce the most. If you divorce someone because they can't make a baby with you, then you didn't love them fully. To answer your other point about what the standard should be for a legal marriage. It should be between any adults above legal age regardless of gender or number of people.
@@veevolt492 why though? Where does that standard come from?
Fun fact: it is because of this video that my partner and I are now married. In the sense of we are married by pre-16th century standards as in we both decided we want to be married. So we are. Boom. Thank you Vlogbrothers for that wonderful moment in my life
I hope it's still going great for the two of you!
hope youre both well
Congrats to you!
Congratulations on your marriage .
cool never thought about that im in the Middle East so getting married is not a possibility
But i can do that too
"Gay marriage is already happening. It has been happening, in fact, for as long as human beings have been pledging themselves to each other."
Hello. I'm bi, and I'm crying because that was unexpectedly beautiful.
Me too
Same
Im bi too! Yeay!!!
It wasn’t how humanity started did it ?
Bro I was literally about to comment the same thing
WOW have things changed. It is genuinely baffling to me that both this video and Hank's video from a couple of days before were not at all received very well. Seeing the more recnet comments being more well recieved, even from other religious people, shows just how much we've progressed as a society, and it makes me happy to see that positive change.
“You can’t get married because of my religion”
=
“You can’t eat a cookie because of my diet”
Already been posted before you. It's in top comments. How did you not notice it?
You cant breathe because im in a breath-holding-contest!
Not the same thing. One deals with truth claims or an intellectual and moral calibre. The other deals with bias.
Joshua James exactly!
@@anakinjames92 tehe u funny
I am offensive and I find this very married.
Offensive i am and married find this very i
LMFAO
eautifulB!
+
There is an issue with what he said about Solomon he did it to make relationships between nations
Thank you so much, John, for having had these types of opinions and points to make even this long ago. Your inclusion of intersex people meant a lot to me back then, and I just *know* that if this was something you talked about today, you would also include gender identity in your recognition of the absurdity of denying people rights. Thank you and Hank for decreasing worldsuck for so long. DFTBA
Wow, I'm really impressed with these comments. You go, internet! You didn't suck for once.
Ok....
+Steveo Parker If by 'brain dead liberals" you mean people who genuinely want to allow other human beings their personal rights... Alright.
+Steveo Parker I find it rather hilarious that you _think_ your comment is making John Green and liberals look bad.
well the intersex argument is hard to counter. Plus he asks people to define what a marriage is which many people are opposed to do so and any argument in the comments will reference this to attack any argument attempting to or giving reasoning. When there is a obvious rebuttal which no one wants to deal with, aggressive arguments tend to occur rarely and most are quickly dealt with using said rebuttal.
Give this snow flake a safe space in the comments. Oh and some golden stars because you are special
I know this is an old video, but it just popped up on my feed, and I am commenting so that hopefully it can appear on more people's feeds. I think the world needs this.
I support gay marriage, because I support any opportunity to have cake
Based
As an ace person gotta agree😂
Cake for all.
Let them eat cake.
Spittin' facts.
Is there anyway to save a comment on TH-cam, because this made me cry laughing😂
John Green for president.
#Vlogbrothers2020
+Marie B y
phlgmetic ; h;
Y not? Besides anyone's better than what we got now.
MayMay Malamute yeah we could have really used that now! lol
Definitely. Smart wise ppl
You know, if I had watched this 10 years ago when it was uploaded, it could have made me stop watching the Greens, which would have been a sore loss for me. I've done a lot of growing up since then and I'm glad to say I'm a better person than I was and I owe at least part of that to watching these two brother talk on the internet.
Im proud of you! I can only hope to make the same impact on someone else!
Ur a big person much appreciation for people like you that can share ur experiences of opening up ur mind to other people and their experiences
I am a conservative christian. I believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible, not taken out of context, but the new and old testaments taken as a whole. Whenever I make choices in my life, great or small, the Bible is the principle thing that informs my choices. I believe sexual relations outside of the parameters described in the Bible, ARE in rebellion to God's will, my definition of sin. BUT...these are my beliefs, my choices. The laws of this country do not exist to force others to conform to my beliefs. The laws of this country exist to protect people and property. No one needs protection from consenting adults in the privacy of their own home.
All of us need protection to pursue the mandates of our conscience, so long as we ourselves are not harming other people or their property in that pursuit. As much as I believe that homosexual relationships defy God's will, I also believe so called anti-homosexual marriage laws violate freedom of religion. Ultimately, people marry based on their own specific set of morals, beliefs and ethics, and while some are uncomfortable calling this their religion, I believe they are in the same family and should be protected in the same manner.
Examples of sexual practices that should be prohibited by law: pedophilia, bestiality, rape, any form of prostitution that is exploitive. Why these and not gay marriage? Simple. The law is to protect people and property. Homosexual adults are consenting and of an age to consent. The other sexual practices I listed harm someone who does not consent, who is vulnerable and needs the protection of the law.
Examples of sexual practices that violate my personal beliefs about God's law, but that should NOT be prohibited by law: adultery, sex outside marriage, homosexual sex, prostitution where the prostitute is not being exploited or coerced, but is in charge of the transaction. (The assumption being with all of these that all parties are consenting adults.) Why? There is neither property or a person that needs to be protected by the law. ( On a side note, bigamy, where all are adults that consent, should be lawful. I think it's impractical, and I can think of a few notable examples in the Bible where it made for some pretty toxic family dynamics, but I digress...)
We need to realize in this country that while we do have a right to our constitutionally-protected freedoms, we do not have a right to be un-offended. The law does not exist to make you feel like everyone agrees with you and prevent another person's viewpoint from hurting your feelings. I write this to Christians, Atheists, Homosexuals, Heterosexual, whatever...
"Tolerance" is not demanding that everyone conforms to your version of rightness, AND DEMONIZING THEM WHEN THEY DON'T. Tolerance is respecting the rights of all people in this country to have their own life and own opinion, so long as they are not physically hurting someone (I'm sorry, words definitely hurt but it is impractical in most cases to legislate hurt feelings), or destroying others property. And remember that generally offensive opinions are a TWO-WAY street. Usually if someone's opinion or choices offend YOU, YOUR opposite opinion or choices are equally offensive to THEM. We need to celebrate that we have the privilege of being an diverse country because that means our own person is provided for, and bear patiently the inescapable side effect of a generally free society: hurt feelings when others think we are wrong-- being respectful to each other anyway! (And prosecuting the crap out of someone when they are not good stewards of those freedoms--whether it's firing a gun into a church or beating a LGBT person, or any person!!!)
I totally agree with this line of reasoning. While I'm a Christian that isn't sure personally that homosexual acts are sinful or not (honestly I just don't know), I don't feel like it should be made illegal as it is a personal belief and is, as you say, an act between consenting adults anyway. Like John said, marriage is a personal thing, and, whether the law recognizes the marriages or not they are still marriages. When this went to vote in NC (where I'm from), I would hear some more conservative Christians say that they wanted to stop the marriages from happening for this reason, and I argued that they were still happening anyway and their not recognizing them wouldn't make the marriage/connection disappear because it wasn't an issue of law anyway. Just as marriage between slaves weren't recognized by law, they were still married in the religious sense.
I guess, my opinion on law making often can be summarized by this Thomas Jefferson quote, " It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own." In other words, live and let live so long as it is not harming others, and, if we don't want others to be able to mandate our free will, we shouldn't do it to others - golden rule ftw. :)
J.G. Janz
I think you have a healthy perspective. However, I am curious about this...
*"I believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible, not taken out of context, but the new and old testaments taken as a whole."*
Are you a Fundamentalist?
By *"context"*, do you mean only Scriptural context, or do you mean all context?
J.G. Janz This comment should have ALL the upvotes.
I really appreciate that you respect that your beliefs don't define anyone else's life, and that you can be happy for others to practise things that you wouldn't. I think that makes you pretty awesome :) However, I'm just curious, how do you think, from the perspective of the individuals rather than the behaviour, that gay people are rebelling against God's will? It's not a choice they're making, it's just who they are, so according to your beliefs, God has made them to be gay. So far the only response to this I've heard is that it becomes a choice when they choose to act on it which is when it becomes a sin, but then I don't understand how an all-loving God would want people to spend their lives alone or denying who they really are. So yeah, I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts :)
This comment should be posted everywhere. Cookies to you, bro.
"Oh yeah, that one recent North Carolina law that's hugely upsetting."
Video from 2012, yet still topical.
ಠ_ಠ
Yayyyyyy...
I know! I saw it and I said "wow, fast response!"
And then I saw the year. You do you NC, you do you.
KAHN!!!
Right? Once he said North Carolina, I had to check the timestamp and I was like, "Oh."
+
Today the SCOTUS ruled for marriage equality. Most of the anger I see about this decision is the same rhetoric that "God made marriage between one man and one woman." So yes, even 3 years later, this video is still relevant. It will probably remain relevant for many years to come.
Whenever I have a friend pull out the religion thing, this is my go to video because it explains the situation more calmly, better thought out, and more rational than I could ever do myself because it has been an issue which affected me directly.
Thank you John Green.
Joseph Laser I was surprised because he said something 100% wrong. Divorce is part of the religion Islam. If you don't like your husband/wife it is legal in Islam to divorce. "Until death do us part" is I think Christian concept. So muslims can never say "God made marriage between ONE man and ONE woman." And another reason this is wrong is because a muslim man can can have 4 wives. So obviously one man and one woman rule is not for Islam.
Maryam Hussein
Old post, but a correction: In Islam, husbands are allowed to divorce their wives, but wives cannot divorce. They can seek divorce which will be decided by a judge if her reasons for divorce are not un-Islamic.
Autumn 2022. Still relevant
You’re probably not surprised to hear that the right people were given 7 years ago is now under a court that could easily decide that it is no longer a right.
I think people associate homophobia with religion too much. Sadly it's pretty widespread, even state atheist countries like the Soviet states, China, kind of North Korea, and others were all pretty homophobic. The same has been true, off and on, with many "philosophy as a religion" kind of countries like South Korea and Japan.
Humans often have an inate fear of "the other", especially when they have first contact. The greeks and Roman's felt anyone outside their culture was a barbarian, part man and part beast. The Chinese thought anyone outside of their cultural sphere were barbarians, uncultured beasts. For a time many Europeans thought those outside of their race were literally sub human. For many people "gay" was something purely hypothetical, like telling someone from Kansas what the ocean is like in a time before TV; she won't know the roar and the spray of endless tides until she goes to the coast. Now suddenly they find out the 2 roommates down the street only had 1 bed, your coworker has a rainbow flag on her desk, and your cousin starts identifying with "they"/"them" pronouns. When my grandma was a nurse in the psych ward homosexulaity was a rarity and a disease, then my uncle introduced her to his boyfriend, and my aunt admitted her roommate wasn't just her roommate and at first it was sort of a shamefull secret, but now it's an open fact. Many of the first countries to recognize marriage equality were Christian majority and we're seeing the same attitude crop up in some Islamic countries and in East Asia and in "folk religion" countries like Vietnam.
This is awesome. A guy who calls himself a Christian, whose writing is the voice of our generation today, and is pro gay marriage. We need more people like this!
noodle089
No
Where do you do your research?? Barely any Christians are pro-LGBT??
I'm a Bisexual Christian. I exist. So yeah that's it that's all I'm gonna say. I'll just leave this here.
@@mostazezothat's like saying I'm a Muslim, I eat pork yeah we exist
@@mostazezo I'm a straight christian. I don't support gay marriage. I exist. So yeah that's it that's all I'm gonna say. I'll just leave this here.
I don’t get all these people who aren’t even married getting all fed up over people they will probably never meet
And he addresses intersex people and trans* stuff. JOHN GREEN, you sir, get a fucking Boy Scout badge for awesome.
ijustlovetea Make that two Boy Scout badges
Jacob Weston ..... oh fuck.
Jacob Weston you made the world suck that was a seriously bogas comment true or not.
Correction: he gets a Girl Scout badge for awesome. :D
im not saying its true but you just said that john green was gay which is not true so it was kinda bogas. (i have nothing against homosexuals)
I just want to marry my japanese boyfriend so that we can have the same RIGHTS as everyone else. If a black man can marry a white woman, a white man marry more than one woman (Utah...), and straight people marry and divorce, then why not just let me marry to a man. It makes more sense than most.
I have a lot of gay friends and I believe that they should e able to have the same rights as my wife and I. That being said the word marriage has a much deeper meaning that a union between a man and wife. Also your argument about one man being able to marry more than one woman in Utah isn't entirely true, in fact it is illegal. Yup illegal, but it doesn't mean they don't do it. I'm all for you having the same rights, but a lot of my friends in the gay community argue that marriage is just a word and that they want the word and the rights that come with it. My only thing is that if just a word to them why does it matter as long as they( and the homosexual community as a whole) have the same rights as my wife and I do, when we believe that marriage is much more that just a word?
Nate Broberg What about the people who fall outside of the stereotype of marriage being "just a word to them" and genuinely believe marriage is an important step in a relationship? You can't just lump people together like that.
The whole reason I said that is because it is one of the biggest argument points in many of the debates. That being said I understand that there are people in the LGBT community that genuinely believe that marriage is more than just a word. But in the same turn isn't it unfair to lump all members of the LDS faith together when saying that Mormon's don't support equal rights for gays, or any other religion? No it's not fair. When it comes right down to it, I don't think congress/courts/the president/politicians should be deciding on whether people can be married or not. I believe that is up to the people and the religion the belong to- or in some cases don't belong to. How I have felt since this whole argument came up is that the government should just call what is now a Marriage License a License of Union, for everybody, and give all the same rights that Married people now enjoy to everybody that has taken part in a License of Union. Then in turn for anybody to be Married it requires something more- e.g. a religious leader or someone who will marry that also has the ability to join people into a lawful union. There are many religions that will Marry anyone, and in the same respect many that will not because it is against what they believe. I just don't want to see the day come when the government looks at a religion and says "You must marry these people because it is the law." completely circumventing one of the main reasons our forefathers came to this continent, freedom of religion without persecution. So here's to a License of Union, heck if it'd been around when I got Married I'd have two separate things on my wall displayed so all could see. A Certificate of Union and a Certificate of Marriage, heck who doesn't like to have more certificates?
Nate Broberg I understand that your argument is not in fact condeming gay marriage, and like you said earlier you would like gay people to have exactly the same rights as your wife and yourself, which is a standpoint I agree with :)
However, I'd like to comment on a point you mentioned (the one you said was 'one of the biggest argument points in many of the debates'). That argument is: if marriage is "just a word", some people say, why is it such a big deal to the LGBT community that they be allowed to use it? Well, that argument can be reversed effortlessly: if marriage is "just a word", why is it such a big deal that we deny it to the LGBT community?
At worst, denying them the word is denying them legitimacy in the social and legal context. At best, it's "you can't have that word because we say so", and that's just plain bullying, which is petty and immoral. So in my opinion, that particular argument that people have been throwing around is flawed and an indulgence of meanness.
ignorance is bliss. People fear what they do not understand. The times have changed and people will realize they will need to adapt. I'm tired of gay men pretending to be straight and marrying straight women and playing on the side and breaking their hearts. That is even crueler than not allowing gay marriage.
I would like to point out a very important fact, there are the 10 commandments and there is the bible. The commandments state:
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.
The most frequently quoted line in the bible that states anything about gay sex/marriage is by Leviticus 18:22
"You shall not lie with a man as you do a woman, it is an abomination."
However when we take a closer look we realise that the Levitical laws were rules limiting the "Ancient Jews", in the new testament Jesus Christ throws out these laws along with the laws that forbid eating pig, these laws no longer apply to the christian/catholic world.
The 10 commandments simply state (in terms of sex), by the word of Our Father that adultery shall not be committed and one MUST be married before sexual relations arise. These were the words of the lord.
Now how many may I ask of you work on a sunday? How many of you say "Oh My God!", how many of you have not honoured your parents, how many of you have lusted after another when already committed, how many of you have stolen, how many of you have lied and how many of you have had sex before marriage.
If we are to talk about the sanctity of marriage in terms of the bible then those who have had sex before marriage and who have committed adultery should be stoned. If you are to use the bible, a book that endorses love, forgiveness and kindness, to hide behind your own personal prejudices is to not live by the word of God and by doing so are the least respectful of your religion.
To disallow two people to get married but to go ahead and eat pork is the highest form of hypocrisy. Do not use the bible to justify your personal prejudices, God is the almighty loving being and to discriminate a group of people by using him is the severest form of sin.
Thank you! This is the point I make to my fellow Christian friends, so great to see it on here (concerning Jesus abolishing Old Testament laws).
But there are actually like 613 commandments.
No actually it is also in the New Testament, in several places, reaffirming that it is indeed an unnatural abomination for men to lie with men as with a women. Romans chapter one for example.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. (Biblegateway.com Romans Chapter 1)
This is pretty darn clear. I am do not condemn anyone, I am just reporting what the Bible clearly says. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and if we truly love our friends and loved ones we lead them to a knowledge of the truth and don't leave them to die in sin and lies. I have had many gay friends over the years they are dear to me. I have been able to be their friends and still stand for the truth without throwing it in their faces.
However, you young Christians need to learn to let your lights shine with love AND truth. Love is not just a sympathetic heart (though that is a very good start). Love is also, standing firm in truth and not wavering, no matter how badly you feel watching someone suffer in their sins. We can catch them when they fall and bind up their wounds but we should not encourage them to feel good about sin.
Makemeaspark Laurion The only problem I have with this is the definition of "shameful acts." I mean, Christians think romantic relations between a man and a woman is not shameful as long as it happens within a marriage. However does that mean that the same romantic relation between two men is shameful even when it is within a marriage? I mean, anyone would agree that the Bible clearly states lustful acts are bad, and obviously that means that lustful acts between two men or two women would be just as bad as between a man and a woman, but, in the case of a heterosexual relationship, the Bible says those same actions cease to be lustful once performed within the boundaries of a marriage. Is this different for homosexual relationships simply because they are homosexual? To my knowledge, the Bible does not say that two men or two women cannot get married, it simply states that two men or two women cannot commit lustful acts with one another, which it also says the same thing about a man and a woman.
Not to start an argument or even a debate, but I am interested as to how one would counter that with evidence from the Bible. I mean, from my past experience as a Christian, I always felt that God was more about people honoring their commitments and loving one another unconditionally, rather than categorizing and restricting love based on things like gender, religion, etc. Also I figured God would be more against people getting divorced and remarried ten thousand times than gay people getting married and honoring that commitment forever.
You realize the Jewish state and many American Jews support gay marriage and it was never written in the Torah a man and a woman is the right marriage
If you love someone, and are willing to make that commitment to them, then absolutely get married. Make that promise to them. I don't care what sex you identify as. Find someone you love, and who loves you, and be happy in life.
I am religious and I don't find this offensive
I like the way you think.
High Five
😊
Joe Lewis for president
Christianity caused the KKK to be a thing
I’ll never understand how people can personally believe gay marriage is a sin, and try to force that view on others.
The first amendment is pretty clear on religion and how the US shouldn’t establish one for all.
I am Muslim and I support love, respect and peace. sending love to all you humans :)
@@joshuaemrich7785 Bad joshua
@@joshuaemrich7785 joshua the whole point of living is to respect and love one another -a muslim
@@joshuaemrich7785 what ?? 💀
@@joshuaemrich7785 generalising doesn't make your statement valid
@@joshuaemrich7785 What loving and respectful Muslims do around the world is the same as everyone else. You don't judge all Christians by the Christian nutjobs who murder abortion doctors or who shoot Jews in their synagogues, so perhaps try employing the same non-prejudiced reasoning to Muslims too?
Wow... This is the first time I have heard anyone that has brought up intersex when discussing this issue. It seems like a very difficult thing for one man one women people to argue against.
I know this video was from six years ago, but I stumbled upon it once again. I love how you mentioned that not all people in a certain religion believe that gay marriage is bad. This is very true because I am Muslim and many of my friends and peers who also share the same religion are either part of the LGBTQ+ community as well, or support it. Just because someone is part of a certain religion that is not in favor of LGBTQ+ relationships, doesn’t mean EVERYONE in the religion believes so. Like many of my Christian friends have quite unsupportive parents when it comes to this subject matter, but they themselves are very supportive or even gay themselves. Just a thought. Thank you, John.
I marry you! I marry you! Mmmmmmmarried!
😂
Lmao
That's really quite biblical. We messed it up!
2023 comment from an Aussie. Hey USA, what happened to all the great strides you made in equality, personal freedom and equity? I think you broke humanity.
I don’t think the US made any great strides. They had some personal growth moments like with the stonewall riots or with the civil rights movement, but other parts of the world were already ahead of them. In honesty, they have always been behind the times in terms of social or economic equality.
Also an aussie chiming in to remind you that the US only codified protections for same-sex marriage (actually effectively legalising it) LAST YEAR. The 2015 legalisation didn't come about by congressional action, but because someone managed to push a relevant case to a favourable supreme court.
We're doing what we can! Our electoral system is just really stupid and some weird criminal managed to make himself president for four years, against the wishes of the general populace. He's getting indicted on espionage charges now, which should help, but he did a lot of damage on his way out and fixing everything he trashed is gonna be a ton of work.
Oh, hey, you're in Australia? I don't suppose you could get rid of Rupert Murdoch, could you? He's not done either of our lands any favors. :P
@@Fralexion It is still a really interesting question as to "WHO" gets to decide when the civil rights movement ends. Who gets to decide we have had enough rights for now and we should focus on other issues?
It isn't conservatives, because if they had their way there never would have been any civil rights movement in the first place. It isn't liberals because they always support civil rights. It is the type of person who initially supports civil rights but backs off of it when """"the left has gone too far""". This type of personality decides when civil rights movements begin and when they end. More research definitely needs to be conducted on this type of personality. I know dozens of these people and I am sure you do to.
If it were up to Liberals there would always be new civil rights legislation being pass all the time. if it were up to conservatives then no civil rights legislation would ever get passed. Movements start with a vibe and end with a vibe. There is no systematic nature to it. They don't always last a certain number of years or end when a certain degree of rights are achieved. They end on random dates and in random places with half baked legislation that was always meant to be a temporary measure until more equal legislation could be passed in the future.
@@connorgrynol9021you people got put in internment camps for a couple years. Something about glass houses lol.
First TH-cam recommends me Hanks, then a day later it recommends John's. The year is 2024. Life is good. The Greens are still allies.
A day later? Mine was 10 seconds. 🫨
I would love if all religious persons were like you.
You have the best name of anyone I've seen on youtube!
Kevin Hambleton I'm not talking about his personalitiy, but about how he handle the topic of gay marriage even when it contradicts his religious belief. Besides that he's also a nice person and, thought I think religious is most of the time a depicable thing, a lot of religious people are nice too.
Kevin Hambleton It also comes down to the fact that is a religion based on the writings of homophobic tribal leaders
You can justify or prohibit anything using the bible. I have even heard republicans talking about how Jesus suported capitalism.
What not having values
I completely agree with you Mr.Green. It's no Different than discriminating against religion. What someone chooses to believe is their right under the constitution and we have no right to discriminate against them because of their beliefs and quite frankly the fact that it happens is just sad. Thank you for making the point point that I have been thinking of for months.
S.G. Black I like how u said “Mr. Green”
Yes, but when their opinion affects whether or not I get to marry the person I love or be comfortable in my own skin, don't I get a say?
For all those who see the latest comments, let this be a warning: DON'T SCROLL DOWN. Don't. If you are a good person, you'll be very brought down by the stupidity, and if you are a bigot, your small dried up brain will hurt from the arguments against your point. There is only pain in this comment thread. Leave, for your own sake.
thanks for the heads up!!
Arrggghhh....I looked. *sigh*. I should have listened.
It is important to see. It is important to feel. It is important to think.
Mik ail Okay, Here is quick recap of what's going on down there:
Derp HURR DURR, Slippery slope, Durr Hurr Bible motherlover! Herp Derp Unnatural!
the stupid ones are getting weeded out slowly. but dont check the replies.
Honestly personal lives are not the place for anyone to set rules or regulations. Religion shouldn't go anywhere past beliefs in god and government should only get involved with things that affect other people. If someones personal life isn't negatively affecting anyone else, then nobody has the right to say that it is wrong
As a famous Canadian Prime Minster put it: 'There's no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation'
You right😄👍👏😌
Although this was posted years ago, this is still so incredibly relevant. This guy has always been a grounding and informational force for me, especially in this video as a person of the LGBTQ+ community. I appreciate this so much 🤍🤍
Hello. As a member of one of those religious institutions that see homosexuality for what is, a sin, hopefully you will find a way to get through that sin and be closer to God. People tend to think that religious people hate homosexuals, but that was never what God wants. God just wants everyone to understand sin and help each other through it.
@@SaintSobaHello. Gay people deserve the ability to get married and have lives together regardless of what religious people think of it.
@@williamkaplan1430 as I said. Homosexuality is a sin, and the wages of sin is death. I hope they find a way to get back to the Lord and recover
@@SaintSobaHello. Other people that aren't in your religion shouldn't be forced to obey a rule in your religion if it doesn't hurt anybody, and marriage to the same sex definitely doesn't hurt anybody
@@Lizard_Ri Other people that aren't in "my" religion (God's word, aka the truth) are frankly, going to hell. Unlike you, I actually care about people and don't want that, so I will do anything in my power to prevent that. Also if you actually do literally any research about the detrimental effects of homosexuality on the people involved, their children, and society as a whole. You would rethink your stance even in a secular only view.
Jesus preached LOVE and FAITH. So I have FAITH that the God I believe in does not condemn any two people promising to LOVE each other until they die.
+Vince Fernandez I like people like you. I'm glad you are accepting. Do you believe in the god of the Bible? If so, why do you think it is okay to ignore the verses that clearly state that homosexuality is wrong? I'm not a Christian or trying to start an argument. I'm just curious.
+Samuel Lee John 3:16 sums it up in my opinion. God loved the world so much that He sent us a Savior. I believe that someone's sexual orientation will never stop God from loving them.
+Julia Levelle I understand that, but what about the verses that clearly condemn homosexuality? Are you just choosing to ignore them? If so, why is that okay?
+Vince Fernandez What evidence do you have that he preached love and faith? Did you meet with him? Did you record his preachings? Do you even have a selfie with him? Or is all this made up without any shred of evidence?
Torben Rudgaard Read the Gospels, dude. I swear to you that you'll find the answers to your questions.
wow, the comments on this video are a lot less hectic than the ones in Hank's video. The relaxation is nice.
I have been a homophobe like many of the people here who hate on us. Saying homosexuality is bad I almost died being straight, I almost took my life from something I wasn't, I almost left everyone I loved for something I wasn't, I went through pain after pain after pain broken relationships, the lgbt being accepted, no finding love I was going crazy I just wanted to die.
But you know even though I was hurt jesus gave me a second chance, he got me up and changed me I never liked men I always hated on lgbt people, then one day out of no where I grew a big amount of love on men and ever since the day I came out my life has never been better.
I have been happier, supporting, helpful, I was much more intelligent, I was able to help my family, my depression went away, and so on I am in peace and it's all thanks to god.
And this can prove to you homophobes that I was just like you exactly like you but god got me out of my sadness and I have never been happier ever since.
Amen 🙏.
Get this message everywhere so everyone learns that you can be both gay and christian.
Yeah religion can cause a ton of issues. That's why I'm anti-theist but it would be a terrible idea to try to ban religion. The real solution is teaching people to question if their beliefs are unfounded from a young age. There have been so many people killed because of religion (directly or indirectly) and that is not something that should be ignored.
You cannot be gay and Christian because to be gay you are identifying yourself with sin.
Should have also mentioned that marriage is not an invention by Judeo-Christian religions, but can be traced back even to the first human civilizations and was very likely always a mere contract between two (and sometimes more) people to find an agreement on how to share and inherit property and wealth.
Most of Christians' understanding of Marriage, as that kind of romanticized thing is extremely young and modern. I'd say for at least three millennia people only married because of financial reasons (and of course to inherit a throne or other important posiition in a country) and not out of love. Even after Christianity came around in Europe that hold true, you only need to peak into the crazy arranged marriages between nobilities until the 19th century. There is a reason why the whole "young girl is married to sadistic but rich douche, actually wants to marry the farmer's son but can't" trope became so popular in fiction around that time.
Also about the "didn't marry in churches" thing: apparently the majority of regular people (so more than the half of europe's population) could only symbolically marry, because they were too piss poor to even pay for the whole thing.
The issue here is that Christians' appeal is theological not historical.
Joshua Steele the point is that they always argue it as a christian tradition, which is simply not true
Yep. Like marriage far outdates Judeo-Christian religions existing, but they still use it as an excuse. It's just pathetic really.
i am religious and everytime someone say bullshit like god hates gays i get really angry,because my religion says he loves EVERYONE...and we should do the same....love everyone,treat everyone as equals...
I agree. I was never taught that homosexuality was bad in any shape or form whatsoever. Just the idea that being gay is bad makes no sense to me. Love is about giving yourself up for another person.
same here...they manipulate the bible just to support their hate.....not one part of God is hate, so they can take their bs elsewhere
AMEN!
I agree. Sadly, my mom taught me that homosexuals are bad. I started to be more religious (Muslim) at age 8, and all the rules that we have to follow are so stupid. I just got so tired of it and started to hate religion. Anyways, my moms hate for homosexuals really showed when it was pride month (2019). I was so mad at her but I didn’t wanna say anything. Turns out I’m an asexual homoromantic. I remember my mom being mad that my sister (she’s 25) wanted to travel alone. She said what if she’s lying and she’s going to travel with boys and all I was thinking is jokes on you, I like girls.
Haley West I feel ya, dude.
1:07 - they do not teach us this! If it weren't for Tumblr, I'd have never had known!
I’m way late to this party, but thank you! I always wondered how churches got themselves tangled into such a universal thing.
Damn, North Carolina, back at it again with the bigotry
NORTH CAROLINA!!!!! YOU GIVE US JOHN GREEN AND THIS IS HOW YOU FOLLOW IT!!!
the cishets strike again
I don't know if you are a male or a female but imagine if you were a woman but your entire life you felt like a man trapped inside a woman's body can you imagine the confusion that would bring how lost you would feel. to answer your question yes we have been bigoted for decades it is just now coming into the public eye though just like how it is still racist to discriminate against black people even if you live in 3rd century Italy even if no one cares of calls it bigotry but I would also like to say that this issue is being blown way out of proportion transgender people make up 0.03% of the population so the odds are that if some law is passed saying you can use the bathroom you identify as you would never even be in the same bathroom as a transgender person to care. Besides you can't even tell most transgender people from their gender of choice so the vast majority of people shouldn't care at all what bathrooms transgender people use, so why not let them use what they want?
do you even know how changing rooms work or,,
***** The people in charge of north Carolina were chosen by those who live there which means that the people in charge of north Carolina hold the same views (or similar enough) as the people they represent that's the way democratic republics like the united states work.
I'm a Christian and although I may not agree with everything you said, I want to thank you for posting this informative video. You presented yourself not only intelligently, but respectfully. I appreciate that. I think we need more sharing like this.
I'm religious. I'm not gay. I'm also under 18 and, as I've concluded, I'm much more mature than most adults. My religion does not define my beliefs. As a Christian I'm told that it's a sin or whatever but if that is what it means to be Christian then I don't know what I want to believe. When we were kids we were all told to be ourselves and to not worry about what others think but when we grow up and begin to discover our sexuality and discover who we truly are, those same people immediately turn around and tell us what is right and what is wrong. What happened to everyone accepting who we are? Isn't it just easier to let other be free to be who they'd like? So let them be.
You know Lida I'm thinking about not following religion much anymore because God is more hate than love now and can't accept people for who they are. If that is the God there is then I don't want him.
Timmy Motyka in your opinion or belief,however you want it to be worded, how is God more Hate than Love?
How's it going these days?
I guess its 12 years ago. Thanks google.
This video aged well. The arguments are good and presented well, if a bit fast, though that was the style. It's also sadly still extremely relevant.
It's also exhausting. 12 years, and it's the same tired religious arguments again and again and again, even after a million responses. Here in 2024, It's hard not to imagine another 100 years without this feeling relevant.
Note that four years later and we have actually come a long way. Sometimes it's hard to tell that we've changed, with all the hatred, but a large portion of comments on these videos are now positive. It's a tiny little start.
+ It's definitely one of those time where nothing seems different until you look back far enough to see the differences.
I agree. And now comes Trump. And I don't know anymore.
This is basically all the ideas that I've been trying to explain to people for ages summed up in a 2 minute video. Thankyou John Green!
So glad you made this video. I think that since you became so identifiable with the younger generation i.e teenagers, this video could help those who come from a traditional/conservative background to accept the fact that, whether they like it or not, gay marriages are human rights and are already happening. You can never stop people from living their rights. Thank you John Green, you have truly made a difference in the lives of millions of young people.
Hanks video about this got recommended to me 11 years later and now this ones getting recommended to me now
Im happy about it, I'd never seen them before!
My mom, who was accepting of homosexuality, started watching TBN (a Christian TV network) and now she thinks homosexuality is a sin and gays will burn in hell. I'm very frustrated by this.
+PooleParty24/7 Ohh i feel sry 4 u
righteous and unrighteous men alike are not going to heaven unless they repent. No one is righteous without God.
Emily Corneail Your sympathy means a lot to me.
yifan lu lol
That sucks. Since I realised that I'm pansexual, I have done a lot of research into whether it's a sin or not. I've concluded that it isn't.
I was scared to scroll down but I'm actually surprised at how supportive these comments are, like it's a huge suprise after things I've seen and I don't feel discouraged for who I am. The internet is a good place for once.
Oh I love you. Everytime I find a person like you, I gain a little of faith in humanity. And then I see the commenn this kind of videos and it just disappears again. I really have to learn to ignore the comments.
Comments in * sorry :s
Goddamn it EQUAL RIGHTS FOR EVERYONE OKAY? Please, please please please, follow you religion and believe in it and worship it as much as you like. BUT DONT FORCE YOUR BELIEFS ONTO OTHERS AND OPRESS THEM FOR IT. Just because you believe something, doesn't mean everyone else has to too.
I'm a Christian and agree with John and it bothers me sooo much that there are Christians out there who don't accept it. A real christian is accepting of everybody.
@@ashtuatara but isn't marriage a thing by people adhering to their religion?
Why can't gay people just invent their own religion with their own set of laws with one saying "this gay religion accepts gay marriage"
Sometimes it strikes me that gay marriage only became legal nationally for US in 2015 and I see videos like this that aren’t that old but came out 3 years before and it’s very disorienting
I have come across this video quite often and I have never been sick of watching it. The points made in both this and Hank's video are just incredible. I am honestly left astounded by how anyone can argue against them.
This video randomly popped up on my feed, and that singamajig, my god, that really takes me back to a time and place I had long forgotten.
GAH. This video makes me so happy. You guys don't even know. I'm straight, and entirely female, but that doesn't negate the right to other people being happy. And because I fall into a category people consider "normal" or "socially acceptable" doesn't mean that I hate on people who are considered not to be.
Yes, I am a Christian. Yes, I believe that God created men and women to be together but that does not mean that He does not love those who believe- and feel - otherwise.
Gods grace covers all people. When will the world finally learn that?
+
@Ez bikûtim tirka (دەیکا ترکا بگێم) that’s not love… that’s a philia.
@Ez bikûtim tirka (دەیکا ترکا بگێم) stop strawmaning these arguements.
Agreed. What would solve this issue is educating and implementing the difference between a marriage of the state and a marriage of god. While were at it, lets make the metric system standard in the US.
I had to like this comment because you threw in "let's make the metric system standard in the US."
Darius Dixon
Yep go metric, and whilst you are at it spell Aluminium and colour properly.
@@maxximumb fun fact, the origin from the word colour came from the Latin word Color.
As a conservative Christian, I would love to see the total separation of church and state, in marriage and in everything else.(Here in the UK we are still constitutionally an Anglican country, and that leads to all kinds of trouble for the Church of England and some weirdness for the State).
I've never seen this put so succinctly and thoroughly before! Thank you!! Happy pride months folks! :D
I'm neither religious or gay, but i want to say something. As John said, their marriage doesn't affect yours. The bible was written a really, really long time ago, and i think it's weird some people still consider living after it. The People who wrote the bible had great points back then, but they doesn't fit in todays society anymore. You can still marry the classical way and be happy, others may arent. All religious people say god loves everyone, and i think that's true, becaue your sexual orientation doen't define you as a human being!
THANK YOU
Problem is people don't see how ridiculous it is to base your life any document written in a complete different way of mentality. If only everyone can have your mentality.
Beautifully said!!
i totally agree (:
The age of a text does not determine its validity. The Bible is still extremely relevant to our society today, and contains ideas are still important in this time.
Its also interesting to note that while other churches in my area are actively and deliberately refusing gay couples and individuals even entrance into their churches, the Local episcopal church next door to my home (actually just down the street) is welcoming all into their fold with open arms no matter what their belief, race gender and sexual preference is. The pastor of that church who is a wonderful fellow preaches a message of love and forgiveness to all, not this segregation and hate of someone simply because of their sexual preference. That fellow is an example of what a Christian SHOULD be, not these intolerant bigoted idiots intent on segregation a certain part of our population because of something their buying into they THINK their bibles say.
+Lisa winn “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” -Mahatma Gandhi. Seems like the Epicopal church is taking following the footsteps of Christ seriously.
Exactly, Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Christian myself,( I'm an Atheist) but I can recognize and respect someone like this pastor that actually does his best to live according to the tenants and teachings of the religion he believes in unlike many so called Christians buying into the dogma of mainstream religion that teaches intolerance, bigotry and in some cases ( wbc) outright hatred.
+Lisa winn another atheist in complete agreement with you. i wouldn't hate christianity so much if there were more christians like him.
Same here. And I don't hate Christianity I must point out, but I am very quick to expose the flaws in the logic of those perverting it to suit their own dogma. I mean, would real, died in the wool Christian get in your face with a megaphone for example? make a public spectacle of themselves? no, they would approach you softly, gently and talk to you about what they believe and be respectful and leave you be when you tell them not interested, not try to ram it down peoples throats.
I like this pastor... We should get him a cookie.
0:59 still a better love story than twilight
Eating a burrito is a better love story than twilight
@@waffles3629 that time of day that's between day and night is still a better story than twilight
To all the people who start to say Bible verse in the comment about how God still forbidden gay marriage : You all missing the point.
I have to repost this part because it´s so good:
"We need to realize in this country that while we do have a right to our constitutionally-protected freedoms, we do not have a right to be un-offended. The law does not exist to make you feel like everyone agrees with you and prevent another person's viewpoint from hurting your feelings."
(Part of a long post by a Christian, reposted by an atheist - we disagree with what the other says, but will defend their right to say it. And live it. Go democracy!)
Why does the government get a say in who we marry? If you are going to say someone can't get married, then NO ONE can get married gay or straight.
It's mostly because of tax laws that surround married couples.
*****
True. Which is funny, because economists have now realized the potential money maker gay marriage is, if New York is any indication.
Laura Mundy "There's no point in continuing the conversation." Probably the truest statement here.
The sad part is I don't think any of you disagree, it's just that this argument is hugely based on useless semantics.
***** Aaron isn't anti-gay. Far from it actually. He says so himself and actually makes a good point.
Anyway, here is another good list to go with your other one, though it's in slideshow format. It includes companies like Apple, American Apparel, Tide, Target, and Ford.
www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/29/pro-lgbt-companies-holiday-shopping_n_4356335.html
***** "you are making an incorrect assumption that only homosexuals are good best workers."
He didn't say that, but I can see why you might have thought he did. What he's saying is there are great gay workers out there on top of the non-gay ones, and they won't consider working for an anti-gay company, and neither will the pro-gay straight workers, so those companies will have less of a pool to choose the best employees they can find from.
You're right that some businesses seek to save money by not having to pay out benefits. It seems people are mistaking that view with the assumption you think businesses won't make money supporting gay marriage, as there is a difference between saving money on benefit payouts and making it on increased sales. I think you understand that difference.
The main thing here is we're all for gay marriage because we all realize not only how equal rights are important, but how useful gay marriage can be in society.
P.S. "the percentage of people who are homosexual in this country number less than 2 percent,"
It might actually be as high as 10%, but it's most likely hovering around 4-6%.
(See? Useless semantics.)
Well that just isn't true, that if someone can't get married, then no one can get married. The government, (sadly, democrats most of the time) is known for discriminating against people and treating different people differently and using different laws as if all people shouldn't treated the same legally. We as a democracy should defend the equal treatment of all citizens ensure the church and state stays separate.
Well, they don't. Technically. You can marry whoever you want. But if you want your government to recognize your marriage and give you tax breaks, lower insurance, and all that lower-price stuff because you with someone. Then they get say in what they recognize.
peson: homosexuality is unnatural
me: homosexuality is in over 400 hundred species and homophobia is in one... and your calling me unnatural
@@matt11306 no, it was meant. my half gayness was meant to happen
me: so are clothes and houses
It’s only been legal in the US for five years and already it’s hard for me to imagine it being “illegal”. I’ve been with my husband fifteen years. We finally got married in 2015, after Obergefell. And, just as I predicted, the right threw a fit in the immediate aftermath, then quickly moved on to something else because the American people los interest once they realized it had no effect on their lives.
Now hardly anyone bats an eye at it. Which is exactly how it should be.
ok my problem with making marriage that happens to be between two people of the same sex illegal is this, while I would be totally fine giving my girlfriend a ring and telling her I am committed to her for life the problem is when one of us gets cancer and cant leave the hospital because legally we aren't related in any way and so could not see each other or use our insurance for each other which is just plain wrong. To those of you married people against gay marriage I want to ask how you would feel if your husband or wife was dying in the hospital and you couldn't see them because other people had decided your marriage made them uncomfortable.
When I saw that this was 11 years ago I got a lil nervous but based asf
Thank you for this ;) I know I’m like 7 almost 8 years late but this really helped me feel better about myself since I’m gay and have been told I can’t get married to a woman if I love god.
It's easy to forget that good people exist when the bad people are loud. Thankfully John and Hank make themselves heard, too.
I hope this video will make people feel better even 10 years from now or more. These to guys are awesome and wholesome.
I think you need a different church ... and maybe different neighbors.
I know this was 11 years ago John, but well said my man.
I am a Christian and my wife is a Christian. We are also both inherently sinful people. But our marriage was blessed by God. Who are we to deny the word of God to gay people or to anyone at all?
SMART CHRISTIANS NOW WAY!?
that is very smart. leave it up to God, don't do his work for him and make assumptions on what he'd want
Wow - my opinion of Christians just went up five notches. Thanks!
Thank you very much for this video. I always appreciate it when someone gives their thoughts and why the think them as it gives people knowledge and hopefully broadens their empathy just a bit more.
I think he explains it beautifully. And being a Gay man in a relationship with my loving husband for the past 17 years, I would have to say that I wholeheartedly agree with him. You have a right to your religion and beliefs, but you don't have a right to impose them on others.
It is interesting to observe the extent to which this video is both still relevant and also partially outdated. For example, gender identity was not mentioned at 1:06 but the fact of nonbinary people was brought up. Both out of date, but also still recent.
Non-binary people aren't mentioned at all, intersex people are.
I wish there were more chill religious people like you. You're awesome.
I just want to say that although I'm a Brit and many of your fabulous videos are tangential to my life. I am completely hooked on them. I love your delivery and your wit and the clarity of your argument. Total fan.
Just the energy he executes is amazing..
Yup. The existence of intersex people kinda blows the whole argument against "gay marriage" out of the water.
This is an old video, but I had to comment and say that this is one of my personal favorite videos ever made.
hey john green, i love how you say that sex=gender. i love being a gay transgender boy whose sex is what you would call "female", and how you are telling me that i am a female because of this sex. i love how you're you're totally ignoring and invalidating my identity and so many others' in this video. i also love how you're saying that intersex folk are not male or female, when i know for a fact that most people who are intersex, for a fact, are either one of those. keep up the good work teen whisperer. and keep teaching the entire world that transgender and intersex folk have invalid identities! i really appreciate it!
These comments are really disappointing, I thought there would be more progression
Dw, this kind of video just breeds attention from the worst kinds of people. Just be glad they're not getting mass upvoted compared to the rest of the comments.
Even tho this is an old video, I am so glad that both this and Hank's video on this topic exist. With how out of control people are about hating lgbtq+ people (primarily because of the dailywire+), this was a huge breath of fresh air to me. People fail to understand that humans are unique and that non typical things are in fact natural. People suddenly believe that people are trying to appropriate womanhood, "mutilate" themselves, groom children, and take away "real" womens rights. Then they use very extreme pictures of horrible disgusting things happening in front of kids saying "See what they're doing!" They treat them like a hivemind that all does the exact same thing. A lot more crap is happening that I don't have to explain (look at twitter and certain laws going into effect).
What is a man wants to have sex with his brother ? they are humans too .
common sense says its not good same for homosexuality, most of the ppl see it as an immoral act
@@MM-pk3rl why is homosexuality immoral though? people have been gay and trans for thousands of years, it's just as natural as being straight or cis. give a reason, completely unrelated to religion, for why being queer is immoral. a reason with merit and weight- not just 'it's unnatural' or something like that. why is the act of a man loving another man, or a woman another woman, inherently bad?
@@MM-pk3rl Whataboutism.
i love you 8 years later this is still very important
I feel so happy to see how understanding nerd fighters are. this community is awesome and I believe it will make this world a better place. DFTBA
I don't know why, but the sentiment at 0:46 about how people used to get married is probably the most beautiful thing I have heard all day.
Shaving one's beard is listed as a sin much more frequently in the Bible than gay marriage. So unless you've never shaved, you have no room throw a stone at gay people. In other words, don't be intolerant over another biblical abiding imperfection, unless you are as perfect as Jesus supposedly was.
Slay john I want to start clapping because all religious people should express their views the way you do and stop making us Christians look bad
I come back to this video over and over, it is just brilliant
amazing we are STILL arguing about this in Australia
And in India, we are still sweeping it under the rug and discriminating (and mixing up) gay and trans people, even though trans people (specifically trans women) have been a part of our culture and considered a good omen since ancient times and are recognized as a third gender according to law
As long as people are happy, then I don't care who they marry.
@@nattytatty759 better than being ignorant
@@cheesenugget9845 what can be worse than sinners?
@@sadasdasddsadas5042 You
@@cheesenugget9845 ik you but except you what else
@@sadasdasddsadas5042 Lol was that supposed to be a comeback? It didn't make sense whatsoever. Lmaoo
hey i know this was uploaded 11 years ago but thank you so so so much
I can't believe that this debate was 11 years ago. It feels like a long settled issue. And of course John Green was on the right side of history with this one, as he seems to be with everything.
in John Green we trust
Ok, I am a Christian, but I support Gay Marriage. Yes, almost unheard of I know. But I have researched everything I could in the bible that apparently states gay's aren't allowed, the only things I've found is that one cannot bed with another of the same gender for LUST ONLY. Which is the same for EVERYONE! So the whole, 'The bible says NO on getting married because you love the other gay person' is wrong. The bible only says no to having sex with someone strictly for Lust and not for actually Love. So if you actually love the person you're marrying, I really hope so, than go crazy. Also, the bible speaks of giving forgiveness and kindness, so every single Christian/Catholic hating on gay people for going against the bible are also going against the bible as well. I have stated my case, go nuts.
how about atheists?
+Senodh Jayasinghe What's the atheist logic for being opposed to homosexual marriage?
I don't know any atheists that are opposed to gay marriage but I know almost all of homophobes are religious people, so.....
Centurion CRO
Unfounded accusation.
+Centurion CRO Can you put some more substance into that argument? How are they an idiot?
10 yrs later, still a slaying king 🙌
This video is important and necessary. John and Hank I appreciate eveything you do for this community, keep up the good work you do for all disenfranchised communities. lu. see u in the next video.