Incredible video, I get a lot of questions about the hybrid system in wec, I appreciate that someone who knows exactly what he is talking about explaining it for the newcomers (for the game)
This looks very promising actually. As an automotive engineer I can image they had a lot of work with getting the hybrid system management simulation behaving accurately as there is also a software component to this problem and not just physics simulation
Oh yeah for sure! I mean you see it with the virtual energy consumption not being 100 % identical despite it should be according to FIA WEC regulations. or generally also to the idea and sense of the hybrid. Its surely an impressive piece of work that they have done with it.
I’m also an automotive engineer and I happen to have worked in the developed of multiple hybrid platforms(all for road cars however). I look forward to watching the video! I’m curious if the hybrid is a real simulation or just an equation with a few lines of code that doesn’t take into account the real forces the car needs to be moved. With inclines of the course, different friction for different tires and aero etc.
I assume there is not much about the general friction from tyres about the code. Aero is also just very simple Im afraid. What do you think of it after watching the video / maybe you have even driven the car? you developed Hybrids? Intreeeesting :D which cars?
Hi Michi, being old school and mainly into classic sim racing, bar modern GT's, I am just now jumping into these space ships, the LMP 2 and 3 I can handle. But I have yet to get into these hyper cars, have to say I have watched this vid a few times and I am going to need to watch again, very interesting. Seems that there is so much to think about whilst on track!
Thank you Michi for all your videos about LMU, youve been a awsome help spreading the word for LMU, im sure it will get better and better, new 2024 content will also be a big plus this year.
Thanks for this huge video ! Very helpful. I never knew how the hypercar hybrid work, I was thinking first it's like F1, very interesting ! Thanks ! :D
boy oh boy gonna have to bust out them calculators during practice sessions. Incredible work guys, congrats for the game it's a massive achievement, and there's more to come... Love from Paris
Hey Michi, these hybrid systems bring a new dimension to sims. Very good! And thx a lot for the video! Without it I would never get it by myself and will be completely confused. Same with your videos about controller and Ffb settings. I started with videos from Dan Suzuki (Ffb, Radar…). But the final kick was your video for Ffb. I also use a simucube and with your settings in driver and game it is the best so far. Without you pro guys the game would be still very weird for me. Now it is a lot of fun and has great potential. So, thank you very much!
Thank you for this detailed feedback and your appreciation of the guides and my videos! I am glad that I can help everyone getting a bit better into the game, enjoying it and unleashing the potential it has!
Great tutorial, as always;) Man this getting complicated, I'm struggling with calculating amount of fuel to take for the race on conventional ICE car, and now this. Also it could open interesting stint strategy like burning more fuel at the start of stint to get lower weight, and later in stint deploy more energy to longer utilize light car.
This is exactly what I had in mind too, drain the battery towards the end, and then do not deploy at all in the first few laps (maybe even use less regen to do that for longer) and at the right cross over points - max deploy and electric support. who knows maybe thats what we need to do
We could also say start with less fuel and use some deploy at the start, as that would be more efficient than just going for burn fuel and not use any battery at the start?
in theory that is correct yes. if you use a lot of slight braking and trailbraking you could effectively save even more fuel (=less weight over stint needs to be carried). But I think that is very marginal
Thanks for this very interesting and informative video. I have two questions: 1. now that the new LMGT3 cars got added to the game I did a daily race on portimao with the Mclaren and in the last lap ran out of virtual energy, how can that be, giving the fact that these cars are non-hybrids? (Unfortunately I was 1st and got a drive-through on the last lap 😅😢) 2. how do you get this knowledge as I‘m also very interested in general mechanics of the rather new LMH / LMdH class? Hope to here from you, keep on pushing
Great video, no one has done anything as good as this explaining how this works. What do you feel is missing from this implementation compared to real world car? For the Caddilac or Porsche will you do any further video explaining in detail how they operate? Again, solid job on this!!
Thank you mate. In all fairness, I am afraid that I am lacking the real life experience to furhter elaborate on it. I would also assume that in real life there is more factors that play a role - air temp / battery temp etc. I believe the cars have build in batteries with much more capacity of what they can have - so while fully charged means only 80 % fulfillment of the battery, fully depleted means 20 % or so... what I want to say is they surely wont run 100 % / 0 % at any point for durability and reliability reasons I guess!
This is a very good video especially for people just getting started, I have been watching your LMU videos since I just bought it and I was wondering if you could make a video about the setup system and how to use it and how it works such as things to fix Understeer/Oversteer? , as I still dont have a grasp on it.
Hey mate. Thanks for the feedback. I need to see about that. Because sometimes the cars are not really reacting to the setup changes as I intend or expect them to do. I am sure I can get some videos in about that though in the future. Just right now I am a bit too busy with all stuff & life :D
I am wondering with the regeneration setting. For example on the Ferrari.. what are the benefits of running high/low regeneration? Does it affect the brake balance or have any other benefits? Or should you just always have it at 200kW?
It does affect the brake balance and does not have any other benefits other than regenerating energy and of course braking-effect. I advise to always have max regen for most efficiency, best brakes and most stable behaviour.
Very interesting. So: - dont' brake when the regen is off (is it valid with all hybrid or only Ferrari ? ) - don't box with empty battery - don't box with 0 % virtual fuel
- you can brake but you need to move brake bias a lot to make up for the missing deceleration. Also one car has the regeneration at the back... I cannot remember which one. But that car is then i think locking the fronts heavily isntead. So yeah basically I would always want to make sure that you have regeneration possible - yes - yes
long video but the most common questions are still open. Can you explain in some more details how to use the different settings for Regeneration profile, Engine Map for E-engine and Recupoeration mode. There are 3 functions which needs to be controlled during a race. How to use it and why ? You touched the point when talking about braking with full green bar, but then you stopped. That would be really helpful. Unfortunately on the S397 website they don't explain(currently) Many Thanks!
Which common question do you consider to still be open? the regen should mostly be set to maximum, so there is not much difference to talk about really. I tend to set the engine map to be set in a way the battery never drains, I keep readjusting them all 5-6 laps a bit. In LMH you always want to be able to deploy for balance reasons in high speed turns. Since the hybrid is here for boosting efficiency there is not "too much" to really adjust about as it hardly adds performance (just efficiency as mentioned)
Really Love this video. I watched it twice now, just so I really understood everything. Not sure I got it all, but we’ll see. ;) I would really love to see some videos specifically to some of these cars. And how would this play out in strategies? You always take 100 Virtual, but what do you do with fuel. Do you just trust the maths the menu makes? Oder take more or less fuel? And how do you know how much to deploy? Thanks so far. :)
Watching this twice even! Bro what a pleasure to have you hooked so much on it. Feel free to put questions if they arise later! About the fuel im about to make a dedicated video to that, as it seems to be a concern of more people. So we will check on this later. But yeah for full stint always 100 % NRG and then the amount of fuel you need to reach 100 % NRG usage :) Deployment always depends on state of charge and where I need it for balance, other than that always have deploy available. you are welcome !
An excellent video Michi, thank you for taking the time to make it. Quick question: If the energy deployment (specifically for the LMh cars) is restricted to certain amount and as mentioned the hybrid doesn't kick in until say 190kmh does the ICE pick up the slack of the entire energy output until the hybrid kicks in or is power lost during this period?
No the ICE always adjust accordingly. The entire car is designed to always deliver the same amount of power at all times. if the eletric motor cuts out the ICE increases the power immedately - if the electric motor starts working (e.g. above 190 kph) the ICE reduces its power accordingly. You can compare it to X+Y= 530 kW (random power value for these cars)
Very excited and appreciative...we finally have proper (enough) hybrid simulation in a sim and also have LMH/LMDh cars that are outright hard to drive fast. Have been jonesing for a squirrelly and difficult take on the class in a sim, in my limited testing it seems like we got just that. Never has Eau Rouge felt so terrifying and been so difficult to take at the limit as it is in an LMU hypercar. Very excited for the sim's future. Thank you for the thorough and excellent video, lots of good information!
Thank you very much for your feedback here mate. Yeah I think with LMU we enter a new era of simracing really as we get a Hybrid system thats extremly complex, demanding and important for the racing. I think it sucks a bit that LMU has not explained these things very well somewhere, but we will get there :)
So I've gotten a couple key points about battery like Battery full on brake = bad, Battery empty in pit with eg. Porsche = bad. But what I don't get is, in standard deploy modes, the battery will fully drain in like 2-3 laps ingame, is there any downside to driving around with a fully depleted battery over most of the lap apart from directly after braking zones? Since the hybrid isn't perf. based I assume nothing happens apart from maybe having higher fuel usage or do drained batteries also affect cornering?
You may encouter a downside with LMH vehicle in highspeed turns as you can use power deploy on front wheels to improve/adjust balance in high speed corners / exits. Other than that no bad effect
Very informative thank you, so basically higher deployment on tracks with lots of corners and lower for tracks like Monza to keep battery between 10-90%? let’s say 40kw for Monza and 120kw for a track like Sebring? Am I understanding it correctly like this ?
Hey mate, I guess we will eventually come across all these tracks in the near future, so dont worry about them :P Maybe a good idea to do track guides. Thinking about it.
very informative, but I still have questions. -regen: as far as I understood, example in Ferrari that's a no go with run without regen without setting bb, right? -never go with 100% nor 0%, true for both lmh & lmdh? -brakemigration. is it applicable in case of 100% battery in lmh to avoid bb issues? -btw how the braking performance is changing/affected in lmdh in case of 100% battery?
Hi mate, - if regen off, the mechanical brake bias needs to be adjusted for that (I have not tested how much, but i assume about 5-7 %) never go with 100% true for both LMh and LMDh / 0 % more valid for LMH only, as the LMDh has electric engine on the rear so deploy or no deploy doesnt make a differnece. brake migration should be applicaple at all times - unsure though have not tested. good point actually - I think the LMDh regenerator is sitting at the back. so in this case you would lose rear end braking performance leading to a front axis lock up.
Exactly this is not the case in LMU. The hybrids are there to safe fuel not to increase the power/performance of the powertrain. - like it is supposed to be in WEC regulation
Brake Bias: Mechanical brake torque split between front and rear axis. Brake Migration: Brake by wire action / addition to the brake bias according to the settings & pedal input e.g a +2.5 % F Brake migration adds 2.5 % front brake bias at 100 % brake --> In a scenario where you have 51% BB front 100 % brake: 53,5 % Front 50 % brake 52,25 % Front 0 % brake 51.0 % Front --> It lineraily moves the brakebias according to the pedal input.
Only on LMH and LMDh. I heard in LMDh it may work diffrent as in the other way around, but I am unsure. To me it adds brake bias to the front lineary to the applied pressure.
You mentioned to map a lot of car control settings to your steering wheel related to the hybrid system. Do you get to use all those buttons? For steering wheels with fewer buttons/dials, it looks like the only option is to map them to the keyboard.
its most convenient to have them on the wheel yes (e.g. I would put motor map on the wheel before I would put TC settings there e.g.) As @Da_Osta already mentioned (thank you btw.) your alternative route is always to go via the MFD, but that indeed is a lot of clicking and doing there.
Hi, nein hab ich noch nicht gemacht. Ist aber relativ trivial. TC = Generelle TC TC Slip = ab welchem slip angle oder ab welchem Drift winkel die TC einsetzt TC Cut = wie stark sie runterregelt :)
Michi - unrelated question, but braking in general. I take it you run with ABS off…really struggling with locking. I know some run with ABS on low or high in gameplay settings to make life a little easier…but I assume it’s slower overall at the top end? Your thoughts?
It may be slower in general as activating ABS or TC will likely add you some weight penalty on to the car in order to balance out the advantage that you have. so yeah. Less top speed might be a result.
Never would have known this without the video, thanks. Regarding the virtual energy, if you set the max fuel in pitstop to 0 litres (i assume you can change the value to something other than 82L) will the virtual energy still refill to 90% even though nothing is actually happening? So you be sitting there just waiting for virtual energy meter to fill up? As I understand this is simply an allocation for your stint. Then the max fuel you set is equivalent to 100% virtual energy in a pitstop, irrespective of hybrid deploy mode which can change Also does the regen help add to braking performance? If so why would you ever want to make it below max regen setting, unless you have too much fuel and want to burn some by reducing energy deployment, then reduce regen so you don’t reach 100% battery. But wouldn’t the additional braking performance still be more powerful than having a little more fuel load? Edit: I saw your response below about lap 1 T1 big braking zone to reduce regen to not go above 100% battery as well. Also when you did max battery deploy it seemed quite inefficient as the fuel savings you gained weren’t a lot compared to the 80kw laps. Yet the battery was all used up in less than one lap.
Thank you mate for multible questions. I try summing them up. The amount of virtual energy you want to have & what the equivalent of 100% energy is in terms of fuel E.g. if you set in the MFD NRG 100% Fuel 82/110l - You get 82l and 100 NRG If you set 90% NRG and 82/100l you get 90% NRG and 73,2l of fuel (which is 90 % of the 82l) If you set 50% NRG and 41l you get 50% NRG and 25.5l of fuel So the fuel load needs to always be set to the value you need for 100% NRG - so yeah in the pits you sit and wait to get no fuel but NRG if you put the fuel to 0l. Both refuling rates. In fact you will refuel fuel faster than NRG so NRG is the limiting factor Yes braking does indeed be affected by the amount of regen. The only szenario to have regen less in my PoV is for lap 1 turn 1 occasions where you want to make sure your brake bias is always the same during the entire progress. - As you have mentioned in your edit. Yes, the most efficient engine you find in a steady deploy at all times, or in other words - max deploy at max regen - the efficiency is triggered by how much you can regain in braking zones (e.g. hard braking regens less then moderate but 5-10m early braking as you are on the brakes for longer, thus increasing efficiency for the loss of a bit of laptime of course)
Hi, thanks for the video. In terms of strategy, using a Ferrari or Toyota how much you regenerate in race or qualifying? How much you deploy? How balanced or unbalanced does the car brakes with differing regn levels...I just tried once the Ferrari, braking was weird. The release required very different from LMP2...strange
For qualifying neither deployment nor regen really matters. In the race, the longer you are on the brake the more you regen obiously. Including Lift & Coast you can save battery big time as well. However since you burn virtual energy, it doesnt really play a role as in how much you actually regen or deploy as the virtual fuel is either burned by ICE fuel or electricity. Balance shifts a lot with diffrent regen levels. For instance regen off, the rear starts locking super early. Regen max, you may even lock the front (as long as the regen can fill up battery). I think difference is up to 7-8 % of Brake Bias.
I'm a bit confused: In my testing with the Ferrari and Peugeot, I found that a regen of 160-180 kw actually gave better stability and performance under braking compared to the full 200, but your obviously more informed opinion states that it's the opposite. I remember from the LMP1s that high regen actually made braking performance worse, so you had to balance that, but they were rear-ward so it might have been just to avoid locking up and spinning. I wonder if I'm just placebo-ing myself at this point or there is something I don't get yet.
Hey mate, the lower regen may give you improved stability - as less regen means a slightly diffrent brake balance. So in your case I would advise to set regen to high and find a brake balance you get the same balance than before. As mechanically it should be possible therefore increasing your efficiency. I think these Hypercar brakes at the axis that has the regen is designed to not have the full braking power as the other axis --> they rely on the regen to do their up to 200kW regeneration in order to decelerate the car.
@@MichiHoyer alright, so it just happened that those regen value matched my brake bias perfectly and that's why it happened. I'll have to test more with this new info. Thanks for your reply!
@@giuseppefazio9313 yes could have just been that. Crank up that Regen and see what your car does and then move bb to the direction you may need and let me know how it went
@@MichiHoyer Hey Michi, just had the time to do 20ish laps in Bahrain with the 9x8,, took me a minute but the car brakes properly even at 200kw, so as expected, I absolutely stand corrected. Since I love in-car management I'm a bit disappointed there's one less control to fiddle with, but alas, it's fixed now. Thanks again.
If you fuel up 100 %of virtual energy you need to be stationary for a specific time. If you only fuel up 60 % you only be stationary for 60% of the time. Of course Virtual Energy will never be taken out of the car. Its not possible and as you say dumb.
Is there any use to changing regeneration rate especially on lmdhs, I assume on lmhs it will effect breaking but is there any reason to change regeneration rate
It goes for both LMDh and LMH. It makes sense to reduce the Regen Map for Lap 1 in races, because for example Bahrian T1. Heavy braking zone, lap 1 - battery is at 100 %. A little deploy from the start but loooong and heavy braking into turn 1 the battery hits 100 % very fast. so instead of maybe having brake balance change mid braking zone due to the regenerator cutting out at 100% you put regen only to like 100 instead of 200 (170 LMDh) kW to prevent the battery from hitting 100%. Remember that less Regeneration also means diffrent brake balance so still need to be careful.
Does regeneration rate affect every lmhs and lmdhs breaking balance on top of 100% battery. Also for a more casual player would this be noticeable or worth trying to implement into my driving
@@Xesh77 1st question: yes - every hypercar is affected. you can set this up for you once, go into the Hypercars and adjust deploy in a way that in the next braking zone you surely gonna hit 100% on the battery while still braking. See what happens :) I think it needs to be taken into consideration indeed.
@@MichiHoyerthank you for the replies, just 2 final questions for lmdhs will 100% have as big of an impact as it does in the Toyota and Ferrari Also for lmhs is reaching 0% battery much of a worry (as it is for lmdhs) or is it just not ideal
i think locking the fronts is easier to deal with that locking the rears... so less worse for LMDh IMO@ and for the 0 %. it depends if you need a bit of a front power lik ein Pouhon exit in Spa or Stavelot where you may need that front power indeed, and if you ran out of that too early then RIP / because when you lose the drive at the front all power goes to the rear and thats like activation 40 % of your power suddenly --> likely to spin you around
Chri$t.... I will need to watch this about 5 times to understand everything... I think only the sim racing aliens have rims with that many required buttons 😁
I personally think Michi is one of the best sim racers. I have a question for you. Would you like to participate in real races, how would you rate your chances of getting on the podium in endurance racing in the hypercar class? After watching the video, it seems to me that the pilot’s physical training is less important here than strategy. Thanx
I divide my answers :P 1) yeah i would love to race in real races and participate there 2) if you go for simracing - high // if you go for real racing 0 3) both is important, these cars are extremly quick in high speed corners still!
Hey mate. Dont worry about it - it happens. Meanwhile I can come back to your question about the real race experience. Coming back from a 24h karting race with modified rental karts. We have won the race :) I have not been slowest but not quickest all around too - so i may revert a bit on my IRL racing expectations :D
@@MichiHoyer Congratulations! I also had experience in a 3-hour team endurance race at a rental car. The stints lasted about half an hour. it was very difficult. and it seems to me that karting is physically much heavier than gt3, 4. especially kz2, it’s just a beast. (I'm not an athlete, just an amateur)
Agree, they expect everyone to be a WEC engineer or mechanic. Even some WEC drivers have said the system is too complicated and they need a lot of engineers to make sense of it. Ran out of “energy” during the 2h Le Mans race and I was totally lost.
Yeah I agree. I have asked LMU for a guide too, as I knew this was going to be a huge topic. After all I went for analysing and reconciliation of my own thoughts and did some research and then decided to do a big video out of it trying to explain it.
@@ldplays9431 I will come up with a couple of more tutorials in the future for sure yes. Some of them will be Multiclass racing some of them perhaps strategy related although there is no black & white on stratgies at times ;)
No, its very important hence i keep stressing about it. the WEC hypercar and IMSA Hypercar hybrids are totally efficiency focused and not performance focused.
I love you see it to be an answer to iRacing. I have to admit I never had the GTR2 sim! But if you think its great then thats awesome. I want this game to be good and popular.
Ce serait vraiment cool de faire cette vidéo en français..je sais que vous parlez français...car maigres la traduction ce n'ai pas très clair à cause du traducteurs...merci de votre compréhension ..et merci pour tout c'est tuto
Hello there, sorry mate I am unable to speak French. I can understand fractions of it but not speak it. Im sorry, I hope one of my French colleagues will help with this!
So you always want to be regenerating electricity when braking, not at 💯. You didn’t explain how to do that. Lifting rebuilds the battery to 💯 but how to drain it so you don’t spin it out, like you did.
you always want to be regenerating energy as you need it for brake perfromance yes! Lifting does not rebuild the battery but it also does not drain it further. You drain it by using high energy deploy modes (e.g. maximum) - any Hypercar with max. deploy mode with definetly burn more battery than regain on a lap
@@MichiHoyerso if you’re at (won’t happen much) 💯 and you brake you’ll get no front brake braking. So you’d need to keep an eye out and take some rear bb out. I run the Alpine in the rf2 mid by SGS and it’s Rwd so not a problem there. I’ll have to find a new car in LMU. I’ll probably sign up beginning of next week
@@fremen321 I was thinking deploying a lot of energy in the beginning of the stint and then reduce e-motor regen rate so your batterry never hits 100% again. So you won't have the hassle to change your brake balance during the race
@RacingWithChuck27 - yes that exactly means that. if you hit 100% of the brakes you instantly lock the rears. as you are setting a "system brake bias" on the BBW system. And that includes the effect from the regen motor - which if 100% battery, cuts out. And @fremen you are right! if you hit 100% you need to adjust the brakebias. @fza6159 you can do that in LMH as they dont start in the pitlane from the hybrid. But in LMDh you need battery to kickstart the car.
Very informative, never would have known all this without this video !
Thank you a lot! Appreciate the feedback. Glad you liked it.
Incredible video, I get a lot of questions about the hybrid system in wec, I appreciate that someone who knows exactly what he is talking about explaining it for the newcomers (for the game)
Thanks a lot mate! Really apprecite the feedback. It was my target to try and explain it for everyone, thats why it got so long.
This looks very promising actually. As an automotive engineer I can image they had a lot of work with getting the hybrid system management simulation behaving accurately as there is also a software component to this problem and not just physics simulation
Oh yeah for sure! I mean you see it with the virtual energy consumption not being 100 % identical despite it should be according to FIA WEC regulations. or generally also to the idea and sense of the hybrid. Its surely an impressive piece of work that they have done with it.
I’m also an automotive engineer and I happen to have worked in the developed of multiple hybrid platforms(all for road cars however).
I look forward to watching the video!
I’m curious if the hybrid is a real simulation or just an equation with a few lines of code that doesn’t take into account the real forces the car needs to be moved.
With inclines of the course, different friction for different tires and aero etc.
I assume there is not much about the general friction from tyres about the code. Aero is also just very simple Im afraid.
What do you think of it after watching the video / maybe you have even driven the car?
you developed Hybrids? Intreeeesting :D which cars?
Hi Michi, being old school and mainly into classic sim racing, bar modern GT's, I am just now jumping into these space ships, the LMP 2 and 3 I can handle. But I have yet to get into these hyper cars, have to say I have watched this vid a few times and I am going to need to watch again, very interesting. Seems that there is so much to think about whilst on track!
There is incredibly much to think about. Personally I already screwed up 2 races because I have not had my head on top of the things all around!
Incredibly helpful! Thank you for the video.
Thank you for watching it! Glad to hear it was helpful
Thank you Michi for all your videos about LMU, youve been a awsome help spreading the word for LMU, im sure it will get better and better, new 2024 content will also be a big plus this year.
Thanks a lot mate! I appreciate the feedback. Yeah lets see where LMU takes this title. For sure its an awesome base to build on!
Thanks for this huge video ! Very helpful. I never knew how the hypercar hybrid work, I was thinking first it's like F1, very interesting ! Thanks ! :D
Thank you for the feedback! Great to hear this helped you :)
boy oh boy gonna have to bust out them calculators during practice sessions. Incredible work guys, congrats for the game it's a massive achievement, and there's more to come... Love from Paris
Thank you mate. Yeah the new system really needs some proper thinking about things for sure!
Great video, its good to see the hybrid systems being implemented properly.
I agree. Its the first simulation that at least for the WEC needs gets this right!
Hey Michi, these hybrid systems bring a new dimension to sims. Very good! And thx a lot for the video! Without it I would never get it by myself and will be completely confused. Same with your videos about controller and Ffb settings. I started with videos from Dan Suzuki (Ffb, Radar…). But the final kick was your video for Ffb. I also use a simucube and with your settings in driver and game it is the best so far. Without you pro guys the game would be still very weird for me. Now it is a lot of fun and has great potential. So, thank you very much!
Thank you for this detailed feedback and your appreciation of the guides and my videos! I am glad that I can help everyone getting a bit better into the game, enjoying it and unleashing the potential it has!
Great video Michi, this is very helpful.
Thank you very much, I appreciate the feedback
Thank you for taking the time to make this tutorial guide.
Thank you for taking the time watching it. I know its a tad too long!
yeah but we will recover this time on the track 😅@@MichiHoyer
Thats great - at least you may get some satisfaction in the races from it by outsmarting other people :D
Great tutorial, as always;)
Man this getting complicated, I'm struggling with calculating amount of fuel to take for the race on conventional ICE car, and now this.
Also it could open interesting stint strategy like burning more fuel at the start of stint to get lower weight, and later in stint deploy more energy to longer utilize light car.
This is exactly what I had in mind too, drain the battery towards the end, and then do not deploy at all in the first few laps (maybe even use less regen to do that for longer) and at the right cross over points - max deploy and electric support. who knows maybe thats what we need to do
We could also say start with less fuel and use some deploy at the start, as that would be more efficient than just going for burn fuel and not use any battery at the start?
in theory that is correct yes. if you use a lot of slight braking and trailbraking you could effectively save even more fuel (=less weight over stint needs to be carried). But I think that is very marginal
Very good stuff Michi. I think S397/LMU need to post this video on their channels
Apparently they did this afternoon & I am super happy and grateful about it!
Great video mate 👍
Thanks for this very interesting and informative video. I have two questions:
1. now that the new LMGT3 cars got added to the game I did a daily race on portimao with the Mclaren and in the last lap ran out of virtual energy, how can that be, giving the fact that these cars are non-hybrids? (Unfortunately I was 1st and got a drive-through on the last lap 😅😢)
2. how do you get this knowledge as I‘m also very interested in general mechanics of the rather new LMH / LMdH class?
Hope to here from you, keep on pushing
Great video, no one has done anything as good as this explaining how this works. What do you feel is missing from this implementation compared to real world car? For the Caddilac or Porsche will you do any further video explaining in detail how they operate? Again, solid job on this!!
Thank you mate. In all fairness, I am afraid that I am lacking the real life experience to furhter elaborate on it. I would also assume that in real life there is more factors that play a role - air temp / battery temp etc. I believe the cars have build in batteries with much more capacity of what they can have - so while fully charged means only 80 % fulfillment of the battery, fully depleted means 20 % or so... what I want to say is they surely wont run 100 % / 0 % at any point for durability and reliability reasons I guess!
I think they have done it well, and it is something that has not really been attempted before, it was a bold move but it looks great!
It needs optimization still but I think its a great start and something entirely new
Great in depth video Mitchi, thanks! 👍🏼
Thank you very much! Glad you liked it
thank you for the video , i had no idea this is how it all worked . really good video .
Thank you very much for the feedback! appreciated
Vidéo incroyable!!! Merci Michi pour ces expications. Thank you
My Pleasure! Glad you liked it :)
This is a very good video especially for people just getting started, I have been watching your LMU videos since I just bought it and I was wondering if you could make a video about the setup system and how to use it and how it works such as things to fix Understeer/Oversteer? , as I still dont have a grasp on it.
Hey mate. Thanks for the feedback. I need to see about that. Because sometimes the cars are not really reacting to the setup changes as I intend or expect them to do. I am sure I can get some videos in about that though in the future. Just right now I am a bit too busy with all stuff & life :D
I am wondering with the regeneration setting. For example on the Ferrari.. what are the benefits of running high/low regeneration? Does it affect the brake balance or have any other benefits? Or should you just always have it at 200kW?
It does affect the brake balance and does not have any other benefits other than regenerating energy and of course braking-effect. I advise to always have max regen for most efficiency, best brakes and most stable behaviour.
Very interesting.
So:
- dont' brake when the regen is off (is it valid with all hybrid or only Ferrari ? )
- don't box with empty battery
- don't box with 0 % virtual fuel
- you can brake but you need to move brake bias a lot to make up for the missing deceleration. Also one car has the regeneration at the back... I cannot remember which one. But that car is then i think locking the fronts heavily isntead. So yeah basically I would always want to make sure that you have regeneration possible
- yes
- yes
Thank you from southwestern France
Thank you for watching from southern west Germany
long video but the most common questions are still open. Can you explain in some more details how to use the different settings for Regeneration profile, Engine Map for E-engine and Recupoeration mode. There are 3 functions which needs to be controlled during a race. How to use it and why ? You touched the point when talking about braking with full green bar, but then you stopped. That would be really helpful.
Unfortunately on the S397 website they don't explain(currently)
Many Thanks!
Which common question do you consider to still be open?
the regen should mostly be set to maximum, so there is not much difference to talk about really. I tend to set the engine map to be set in a way the battery never drains, I keep readjusting them all 5-6 laps a bit.
In LMH you always want to be able to deploy for balance reasons in high speed turns. Since the hybrid is here for boosting efficiency there is not "too much" to really adjust about as it hardly adds performance (just efficiency as mentioned)
great exolanation! Thank you! I really like this game
Awesome to hear mate! looking forward seeing you on the track
Really Love this video. I watched it twice now, just so I really understood everything. Not sure I got it all, but we’ll see. ;)
I would really love to see some videos specifically to some of these cars.
And how would this play out in strategies? You always take 100 Virtual, but what do you do with fuel. Do you just trust the maths the menu makes? Oder take more or less fuel? And how do you know how much to deploy?
Thanks so far. :)
Watching this twice even! Bro what a pleasure to have you hooked so much on it. Feel free to put questions if they arise later!
About the fuel im about to make a dedicated video to that, as it seems to be a concern of more people. So we will check on this later. But yeah for full stint always 100 % NRG and then the amount of fuel you need to reach 100 % NRG usage :)
Deployment always depends on state of charge and where I need it for balance, other than that always have deploy available.
you are welcome !
An excellent video Michi, thank you for taking the time to make it.
Quick question: If the energy deployment (specifically for the LMh cars) is restricted to certain amount and as mentioned the hybrid doesn't kick in until say 190kmh does the ICE pick up the slack of the entire energy output until the hybrid kicks in or is power lost during this period?
No the ICE always adjust accordingly. The entire car is designed to always deliver the same amount of power at all times. if the eletric motor cuts out the ICE increases the power immedately - if the electric motor starts working (e.g. above 190 kph) the ICE reduces its power accordingly. You can compare it to X+Y= 530 kW (random power value for these cars)
@@MichiHoyer Lovely, thank you for the reply!
Anytime@@alaric3415
Great video Michi. It helps me a lot. Thanks
Thanks for letting me know! much appreciated.
Very helpful thanks!!!
Thank you for the feedback @Kireth much appreciated! Thank you also for becoming a member on the channel!
Thank you for this video, I learned a lot from it!
Thank you for watching it! much appreciated.
Thanks for the video !
thank you for watching it and appreciting it.
Very excited and appreciative...we finally have proper (enough) hybrid simulation in a sim and also have LMH/LMDh cars that are outright hard to drive fast. Have been jonesing for a squirrelly and difficult take on the class in a sim, in my limited testing it seems like we got just that. Never has Eau Rouge felt so terrifying and been so difficult to take at the limit as it is in an LMU hypercar. Very excited for the sim's future.
Thank you for the thorough and excellent video, lots of good information!
Thank you very much for your feedback here mate.
Yeah I think with LMU we enter a new era of simracing really as we get a Hybrid system thats extremly complex, demanding and important for the racing.
I think it sucks a bit that LMU has not explained these things very well somewhere, but we will get there :)
So I've gotten a couple key points about battery like Battery full on brake = bad, Battery empty in pit with eg. Porsche = bad.
But what I don't get is, in standard deploy modes, the battery will fully drain in like 2-3 laps ingame, is there any downside to driving around with a fully depleted battery over most of the lap apart from directly after braking zones? Since the hybrid isn't perf. based I assume nothing happens apart from maybe having higher fuel usage or do drained batteries also affect cornering?
You may encouter a downside with LMH vehicle in highspeed turns as you can use power deploy on front wheels to improve/adjust balance in high speed corners / exits. Other than that no bad effect
Very informative thank you, so basically higher deployment on tracks with lots of corners and lower for tracks like Monza to keep battery between 10-90%?
let’s say 40kw for Monza and 120kw for a track like Sebring?
Am I understanding it correctly like this ?
This goes very much into that direction yes. In Le Mans you use 20/40 kW and i think in Sebring 80/100
Could you do lap guides for different tracks? Keep losing about 4 tenths on tracks like turn 7 in sebring.
Hey mate, I guess we will eventually come across all these tracks in the near future, so dont worry about them :P
Maybe a good idea to do track guides. Thinking about it.
Thanks for the explanation! Is there a cheat sheet / cliff's notes version for my small brain?
No, I have not created something like that. But at www.improveyourlaptime.com in the membership area we may introduce that
very informative, but I still have questions.
-regen: as far as I understood, example in Ferrari that's a no go with run without regen without setting bb, right?
-never go with 100% nor 0%, true for both lmh & lmdh?
-brakemigration. is it applicable in case of 100% battery in lmh to avoid bb issues?
-btw how the braking performance is changing/affected in lmdh in case of 100% battery?
Hi mate,
- if regen off, the mechanical brake bias needs to be adjusted for that (I have not tested how much, but i assume about 5-7 %)
never go with 100% true for both LMh and LMDh / 0 % more valid for LMH only, as the LMDh has electric engine on the rear so deploy or no deploy doesnt make a differnece.
brake migration should be applicaple at all times - unsure though have not tested. good point actually
- I think the LMDh regenerator is sitting at the back. so in this case you would lose rear end braking performance leading to a front axis lock up.
In Automobilista 2 you can get more topspeed in the LMDh on high hybrid deployment. Is this not the case in LMU?
Exactly this is not the case in LMU. The hybrids are there to safe fuel not to increase the power/performance of the powertrain. - like it is supposed to be in WEC regulation
Thank you, very good video
Thanks alot! appreciate if you guys see this being useful :)
Awesome video thanks
And can you please explain what Brake migration is compared to Brake Bias ?
Brake Bias: Mechanical brake torque split between front and rear axis.
Brake Migration: Brake by wire action / addition to the brake bias according to the settings & pedal input
e.g a +2.5 % F Brake migration adds 2.5 % front brake bias at 100 % brake
--> In a scenario where you have 51% BB front
100 % brake: 53,5 % Front
50 % brake 52,25 % Front
0 % brake 51.0 % Front
--> It lineraily moves the brakebias according to the pedal input.
@@MichiHoyer Thank you for that, I wasn't sure if it was in addition or substraction.
And is it only on Lmh / Lmdh, or also on LMP2 and GTE ?
Only on LMH and LMDh. I heard in LMDh it may work diffrent as in the other way around, but I am unsure. To me it adds brake bias to the front lineary to the applied pressure.
You mentioned to map a lot of car control settings to your steering wheel related to the hybrid system. Do you get to use all those buttons?
For steering wheels with fewer buttons/dials, it looks like the only option is to map them to the keyboard.
You could do it via the MFD on the bottom left but this is a bitt fiddly in racing and traffic situations.
its most convenient to have them on the wheel yes (e.g. I would put motor map on the wheel before I would put TC settings there e.g.)
As @Da_Osta already mentioned (thank you btw.) your alternative route is always to go via the MFD, but that indeed is a lot of clicking and doing there.
Hey Michi, hast du zufällig schonmal ein Tutorial zu TC/Cut/Slip Angle gemacht? 🙈 danke dir
Hi, nein hab ich noch nicht gemacht. Ist aber relativ trivial.
TC = Generelle TC
TC Slip = ab welchem slip angle oder ab welchem Drift winkel die TC einsetzt
TC Cut = wie stark sie runterregelt :)
@@MichiHoyer danke
Gerne
great important info thanks michi
Thank you very much! glad you guys can learn from this.
Michi - unrelated question, but braking in general. I take it you run with ABS off…really struggling with locking. I know some run with ABS on low or high in gameplay settings to make life a little easier…but I assume it’s slower overall at the top end? Your thoughts?
It may be slower in general as activating ABS or TC will likely add you some weight penalty on to the car in order to balance out the advantage that you have. so yeah. Less top speed might be a result.
@@MichiHoyer do you always have TC and ABS off or does it depend on the car for you?
I am driving without any assists whatsoever. However, the onboard TC is always in use ase it is required to push the car.
Never would have known this without the video, thanks. Regarding the virtual energy, if you set the max fuel in pitstop to 0 litres (i assume you can change the value to something other than 82L) will the virtual energy still refill to 90% even though nothing is actually happening? So you be sitting there just waiting for virtual energy meter to fill up? As I understand this is simply an allocation for your stint.
Then the max fuel you set is equivalent to 100% virtual energy in a pitstop, irrespective of hybrid deploy mode which can change
Also does the regen help add to braking performance? If so why would you ever want to make it below max regen setting, unless you have too much fuel and want to burn some by reducing energy deployment, then reduce regen so you don’t reach 100% battery. But wouldn’t the additional braking performance still be more powerful than having a little more fuel load?
Edit: I saw your response below about lap 1 T1 big braking zone to reduce regen to not go above 100% battery as well.
Also when you did max battery deploy it seemed quite inefficient as the fuel savings you gained weren’t a lot compared to the 80kw laps. Yet the battery was all used up in less than one lap.
Thank you mate for multible questions. I try summing them up.
The amount of virtual energy you want to have & what the equivalent of 100% energy is in terms of fuel
E.g. if you set in the MFD
NRG 100% Fuel 82/110l - You get 82l and 100 NRG
If you set 90% NRG and 82/100l you get 90% NRG and 73,2l of fuel (which is 90 % of the 82l)
If you set 50% NRG and 41l you get 50% NRG and 25.5l of fuel
So the fuel load needs to always be set to the value you need for 100% NRG - so yeah in the pits you sit and wait to get no fuel but NRG if you put the fuel to 0l. Both refuling rates. In fact you will refuel fuel faster than NRG so NRG is the limiting factor
Yes braking does indeed be affected by the amount of regen. The only szenario to have regen less in my PoV is for lap 1 turn 1 occasions where you want to make sure your brake bias is always the same during the entire progress. - As you have mentioned in your edit.
Yes, the most efficient engine you find in a steady deploy at all times, or in other words - max deploy at max regen - the efficiency is triggered by how much you can regain in braking zones (e.g. hard braking regens less then moderate but 5-10m early braking as you are on the brakes for longer, thus increasing efficiency for the loss of a bit of laptime of course)
Hi, thanks for the video. In terms of strategy, using a Ferrari or Toyota how much you regenerate in race or qualifying? How much you deploy? How balanced or unbalanced does the car brakes with differing regn levels...I just tried once the Ferrari, braking was weird. The release required very different from LMP2...strange
For qualifying neither deployment nor regen really matters. In the race, the longer you are on the brake the more you regen obiously. Including Lift & Coast you can save battery big time as well. However since you burn virtual energy, it doesnt really play a role as in how much you actually regen or deploy as the virtual fuel is either burned by ICE fuel or electricity.
Balance shifts a lot with diffrent regen levels. For instance regen off, the rear starts locking super early. Regen max, you may even lock the front (as long as the regen can fill up battery). I think difference is up to 7-8 % of Brake Bias.
@@MichiHoyer Thanks a lot..!!
You are welcome!
I'm a bit confused: In my testing with the Ferrari and Peugeot, I found that a regen of 160-180 kw actually gave better stability and performance under braking compared to the full 200, but your obviously more informed opinion states that it's the opposite.
I remember from the LMP1s that high regen actually made braking performance worse, so you had to balance that, but they were rear-ward so it might have been just to avoid locking up and spinning. I wonder if I'm just placebo-ing myself at this point or there is something I don't get yet.
Hey mate, the lower regen may give you improved stability - as less regen means a slightly diffrent brake balance. So in your case I would advise to set regen to high and find a brake balance you get the same balance than before. As mechanically it should be possible therefore increasing your efficiency.
I think these Hypercar brakes at the axis that has the regen is designed to not have the full braking power as the other axis --> they rely on the regen to do their up to 200kW regeneration in order to decelerate the car.
@@MichiHoyer alright, so it just happened that those regen value matched my brake bias perfectly and that's why it happened. I'll have to test more with this new info. Thanks for your reply!
@@giuseppefazio9313 yes could have just been that. Crank up that Regen and see what your car does and then move bb to the direction you may need and let me know how it went
Perfect! Looking forward to see you improve and getting along well with it then :) @@giuseppefazio9313
@@MichiHoyer Hey Michi, just had the time to do 20ish laps in Bahrain with the 9x8,, took me a minute but the car brakes properly even at 200kw, so as expected, I absolutely stand corrected. Since I love in-car management I'm a bit disappointed there's one less control to fiddle with, but alas, it's fixed now.
Thanks again.
Thanks for the tutorial. I still don’t understand what the point of decreasing the virtual energy for a pit stop or something
If you fuel up 100 %of virtual energy you need to be stationary for a specific time. If you only fuel up 60 % you only be stationary for 60% of the time.
Of course Virtual Energy will never be taken out of the car. Its not possible and as you say dumb.
Is there any use to changing regeneration rate especially on lmdhs, I assume on lmhs it will effect breaking but is there any reason to change regeneration rate
It goes for both LMDh and LMH. It makes sense to reduce the Regen Map for Lap 1 in races, because for example Bahrian T1.
Heavy braking zone, lap 1 - battery is at 100 %. A little deploy from the start but loooong and heavy braking into turn 1 the battery hits 100 % very fast. so instead of maybe having brake balance change mid braking zone due to the regenerator cutting out at 100% you put regen only to like 100 instead of 200 (170 LMDh) kW to prevent the battery from hitting 100%. Remember that less Regeneration also means diffrent brake balance so still need to be careful.
Does regeneration rate affect every lmhs and lmdhs breaking balance on top of 100% battery. Also for a more casual player would this be noticeable or worth trying to implement into my driving
@@Xesh77 1st question: yes - every hypercar is affected. you can set this up for you once, go into the Hypercars and adjust deploy in a way that in the next braking zone you surely gonna hit 100% on the battery while still braking. See what happens :)
I think it needs to be taken into consideration indeed.
@@MichiHoyerthank you for the replies, just 2 final questions for lmdhs will 100% have as big of an impact as it does in the Toyota and Ferrari
Also for lmhs is reaching 0% battery much of a worry (as it is for lmdhs) or is it just not ideal
i think locking the fronts is easier to deal with that locking the rears... so less worse for LMDh IMO@ and for the 0 %. it depends if you need a bit of a front power lik ein Pouhon exit in Spa or Stavelot where you may need that front power indeed, and if you ran out of that too early then RIP / because when you lose the drive at the front all power goes to the rear and thats like activation 40 % of your power suddenly --> likely to spin you around
Chri$t.... I will need to watch this about 5 times to understand everything... I think only the sim racing aliens have rims with that many required buttons 😁
Yeah it is complex mate. very complex. Probably I have to also do more again. if things remain unclear.
I personally think Michi is one of the best sim racers. I have a question for you. Would you like to participate in real races, how would you rate your chances of getting on the podium in endurance racing in the hypercar class? After watching the video, it seems to me that the pilot’s physical training is less important here than strategy. Thanx
I divide my answers :P
1) yeah i would love to race in real races and participate there
2) if you go for simracing - high // if you go for real racing 0
3) both is important, these cars are extremly quick in high speed corners still!
@@MichiHoyer your answers tell me that you soberly assess your capabilities. it means you can be trusted. thank you for your content
@@MichiHoyer and sorry for the collision in practice at Laguna Seca RF2 last year, I remember and I’m still ashamed (( Sergii Soroka, Ukrane
Hey mate. Dont worry about it - it happens. Meanwhile I can come back to your question about the real race experience. Coming back from a 24h karting race with modified rental karts. We have won the race :) I have not been slowest but not quickest all around too - so i may revert a bit on my IRL racing expectations :D
@@MichiHoyer Congratulations! I also had experience in a 3-hour team endurance race at a rental car. The stints lasted about half an hour. it was very difficult. and it seems to me that karting is physically much heavier than gt3, 4. especially kz2, it’s just a beast. (I'm not an athlete, just an amateur)
Thanks for the video. Need an engineer. Wonder how Ferrari pit crew manage 😆?
Intrestingly enough that Ferrari pitcrew was good enough to win LM24 hahhaah.
You are welcome !appreciate you have watched the video
Other Le Mans Ultimate tutorials are welcome !
Have you checked our playlist yet :) ?
Thx man👍
Pleasure! Enjoy it mate
this information should be in game, maybe they should add your video file into the game in a tutorial section for people to watch
Thank you mate! At least lately they have put it out on their socials :)
That explain why i sometime just spin a corner.
May very much be down to that battery level and 100% - have it in check :)
Great explanation, but I honestly think it's insane that none of this is explained inside LMU itself.
Agree, they expect everyone to be a WEC engineer or mechanic. Even some WEC drivers have said the system is too complicated and they need a lot of engineers to make sense of it. Ran out of “energy” during the 2h Le Mans race and I was totally lost.
Yeah I agree. I have asked LMU for a guide too, as I knew this was going to be a huge topic. After all I went for analysing and reconciliation of my own thoughts and did some research and then decided to do a big video out of it trying to explain it.
@@MichiHoyer You're such a tremendous help for many of us man! Thank you so much 🙏 Could there be set-up and strategy guides in the future?
@@ldplays9431 I will come up with a couple of more tutorials in the future for sure yes. Some of them will be Multiclass racing some of them perhaps strategy related although there is no black & white on stratgies at times ;)
I think Jimmy did not watch this video yet 😂
I am afraid so too haha - feel free to send it to him, if you are close to him :P
Hm thought it would impact more on the performance
No, its very important hence i keep stressing about it. the WEC hypercar and IMSA Hypercar hybrids are totally efficiency focused and not performance focused.
Your right! Thanks!
No worries! Thats why we are here.
LMU in my opinion the true successor of gtr 2...return of the king and the best answer to iracing ;-)
I love you see it to be an answer to iRacing. I have to admit I never had the GTR2 sim! But if you think its great then thats awesome. I want this game to be good and popular.
Damn... I wish iracing has the hybrid systems like this. As it is we dont do a thing to the deployment during a whole 24
yeah. Since i raced Daytona 24 in fact the first few laps until your car deployed from 100 to like 55% SOC you gain performance - which is also wrong.
Ce serait vraiment cool de faire cette vidéo en français..je sais que vous parlez français...car maigres la traduction ce n'ai pas très clair à cause du traducteurs...merci de votre compréhension ..et merci pour tout c'est tuto
Hello there, sorry mate I am unable to speak French. I can understand fractions of it but not speak it. Im sorry, I hope one of my French colleagues will help with this!
não tem tutorial em portugues? 👎
show.....
Show of what :) ?
So you always want to be regenerating electricity when braking, not at 💯. You didn’t explain how to do that. Lifting rebuilds the battery to 💯 but how to drain it so you don’t spin it out, like you did.
you always want to be regenerating energy as you need it for brake perfromance yes! Lifting does not rebuild the battery but it also does not drain it further. You drain it by using high energy deploy modes (e.g. maximum) - any Hypercar with max. deploy mode with definetly burn more battery than regain on a lap
@@MichiHoyerso if you’re at (won’t happen much) 💯 and you brake you’ll get no front brake braking. So you’d need to keep an eye out and take some rear bb out. I run the Alpine in the rf2 mid by SGS and it’s Rwd so not a problem there. I’ll have to find a new car in LMU. I’ll probably sign up beginning of next week
Another thing to do is if you have the battery to 100 without deploying, push the brake bias forward to avoid the oversteer.
@@fremen321 I was thinking deploying a lot of energy in the beginning of the stint and then reduce e-motor regen rate so your batterry never hits 100% again. So you won't have the hassle to change your brake balance during the race
@RacingWithChuck27 - yes that exactly means that. if you hit 100% of the brakes you instantly lock the rears. as you are setting a "system brake bias" on the BBW system. And that includes the effect from the regen motor - which if 100% battery, cuts out.
And @fremen you are right! if you hit 100% you need to adjust the brakebias.
@fza6159 you can do that in LMH as they dont start in the pitlane from the hybrid. But in LMDh you need battery to kickstart the car.