It's sad that the majority of Simracers will disagree with me and will say its XYZ setting Exactly like with ACC and other sims , however you have to keep in mind whenever we point out the sims that do it right people all basically agree and agree with the specifc points and reasons .. so its a bit strange that people get so defensive No its not settings , Yes The bald git knows what he talking about , Yes Many Real World drivers agree with me , Yes its a dumb hill to die on , Maybe consider that i know what I'm talking about when it comes to this one thing. Who knows what it is ? BLESSED BE THE BEHOLDERS OF THE TRUTH ! - I welcome the dislikes
The discord seems a bit off. They just muted me for asking questions about what they intend to do about all the SR B0 drivers ruining lobbies in beginner & now being in the subscription paid for servers, Instant mute.
@@TIMMAAYY007 I actually used to speak french but these videos are in english with an english accent so Its weard to worry about how people say things in there own language , I actually don't care when french people say english stuff in a French accent. And I genuinely love german English accent
@@TIMMAAYY007 You realise that Pronunciation is closely tied to accent and that accent can change pronunciation - you also realise its honestly really a strange thing to care about given that language is about understanding what people mean or are saying and obviously everyone knows what we are talking about with this game and how I have said it. If you are going to get upset by how I pronounce some things the way I spell will make your brain fall out your nostrils.
To be honest it’s the best/easiest online experience I’ve had in sim racing. Super fun to drive and easy to get to the limit, also drives intuitively which is a biggie
If you don’t love the ffb in LMU you are either mocking, trolling or simply need another dd-system. I play AC, ACC, RR, Automobilista 2 , RFactor 2 and IRacing. This by far is the best FFB. I’ve had that FFB bug too, go back to garage and it’s there again. Needs a fix though. But i guess you are the FFB professor.
@@bhendrikabel He had enormous success with click baiting the ACC fan boys... However he was pretty spot on with that. I never got on with ACC. LMU is feeling pretty on point to me and I have had to use the in game dampener because my T818 is trying to disassemble my sturdy simlab rig.
I play the same games as you, but i still find rFactor 2 to have way more satisfying FFB than any other sim title. I almost only race GTE and now GT3 in LMU though. I have a Fanatec clubsport DD+ 15nm base.
I dont get it. I agree with you on the topic of FFB Regarding AC ACC Iracing etc. so i thought we would be on the same page but i cant agree with you on LMU FFB for me its one of the best feeling sims along with AC and rf2.
something MAJOR changed. to be honest i think its a bug on some wheel bases. i main iracing but always hopped on lmu when i was bored. you're correct the ffb is AMAZING! from the road feel to the side wall flex its all there. i think when they started implementing the cold tire physics something got messed up or some wheel bases are not reacting properly. recently i have had insane amounts of ffb fade and this weird filtered feeling "its as if the crazy road feel is gone and i just get random forces". its not the same ffb that i felt when i first picked up lmu. i have no idea why but i kind of agree at the moment for me the ffb feels terrible. i even hopped on rfactor 2 to see if i was crazy and im not.
the devs have said there is a bug with the game with moza wheels. gm is using moza but then jardier isnt. jardier says its quite good but needs more feel on the back end. who knows lol. as for the sound thing... thats never been a thought for me.
I’ve been a loyal supporter of rF2 and LMU from the very beginning, and I absolutely love the software and the community around it. That’s why it pains me to say that I’m genuinely disappointed with the force feedback on the new LMGT3 cars after the latest update. Here are my key concerns: GTE FFB Feels Superior: The GTE cars offer a much nicer and more pronounced FFB experience. Compared to those, the LMGT3 feels lackluster. Comparison to rF2: Using the same track and a GT3 car (not LMGT3) on rF2, the FFB feels far more satisfying. The difference is night and day. Luxury Car Feeling: The LMGT3 FFB reminds me of driving a luxury car with power steering-it feels overly refined and disconnected, rather than raw and engaging. Numb Center: The FFB feels particularly numb around the center, which detracts from immersion and control. No In-Game FFB Intensity Adjustment: After all this time, we still don’t have an option to adjust FFB intensity in-game. This would go a long way in addressing individual preferences. I know I might sound overly critical, but my intention is to provide constructive feedback. I had high hopes for S397 to set a new standard in the GT3 market with this update, and this falls short of my personal hopes and expectations.
Can report, VR is astonishingly good. Been in VR since day one and with this update performance is terrific and visually bar the AMS2 amaising light effects, this looks to me more real.
@GamerMuscleVideos You haven't tried VR and reported that it is not working well while this update made it amazing out of the box, no fiddling and great looks. Put a disclaimer on the video quick! :D
I would say vr is 8 out 10. Its very good, but it doesn't look the sharpest, will have hiccups at times based on track details, and doesn't have a customizable HUD atm.
Returned after only 40 mins, what sort of VR enthusiast are you? 😊 The hud is customizable in scale and widgets. Come on guys, VR needs a bit of love and attention to get the very best out of your gear with any VR SIM. It's just par for the course.
I agree with you. Keep telling the truth because that's why most of us are here. That said, do some more RaceRoom content now after you have been focused on the newer sims. It's stuff like this video that make us appreciate RaceRoom = the sim that doesn't do really anything the best, but also does nothing badly. RaceRoom is the only package that doesn't put me off playing it. The other sims all have some heartbreaking deal breaking issue.
Weve been discussing this in the Discord and we have a feeling its linked to Camber and Tyres, it will only become alot better once these issues get fixed which will proabably take a long time as its alot more core than other things to adjust with tyre models
To be honest RF2 has also always had massively overated FFB on the grand scheme of things I think sure generating better FFB from underlying physics / steering rack is ideal however in the end lots of cars especially GT3 have really bad wheel forces to then present to player. So all sims really need to look at other ways of giving the player the info to drive from ( unless the rack forces do work) Beam for example offers some other options as it's just a simple fact that specific gemotary gives no FFB or even inverted FFB lol 😂 Obviously it's not number 1 priority for developers but FFB is life ! Blessed be the FFB
@@GamerMuscleVideos FFB is something that is very important, LMU just has the steering rack forces from the tyres and Suspension but it feels more like just the suspension with damping not the tyres if that makes sense its hard to explain
One thing I like about LMU and rF2 is that you take a few laps and heat up the tires, you get 5ish laps (maybe 15 minutes) at full grip, and then they start to slowly drop off and you actually have to change how you drive the track throughout the race. Everything I've heard from real drivers this is how it is.
What's odd is the FFB being a little off seems to be just the GT3 cars for me. I went back and drove the GTE and Hypercars, and after warming up the tires, they still feel good like they did before the update. So I'm guessing it has to do with how the game translates the GT3 tire into FFB. Its pretty low force and then ramps up dramatically, instead of smooth ramp up like in the GTE and HYP. Wonder if some of it is default setup related too.
I noticed this too. Maybe their simulating how little traction cold tires have or something, but even one lap into a practice session the FFB weight ramps way up.
I'm also someone affected by the engine sound not matching the rpm/gear where I think there's another lower gear available and instead end up in neutral. It's like the developers know this and had to put in a don't shift into neutral feature
I’m sorry gamermuscle I’m going to have to disagree with you on ffb because I honestly feel like being a esports driver who’s come from Assetto Corsa Competizione so I also know what I’m talking about, LMU probably has the best FFB I’ve felt in a long time there’s a lot cars on acc where I can’t feel like what the car is doing. There have been gt3 drivers and lmp2 that have played it and have said the FFB is great and how you feel more connected to the car and I would agree with that tbh. I’m not too sure how long you played it for or if you even tried seeking descent settings to make it feel more immersive. End of the day it’s still brand new nothing was ever perfect to start with but I’m sure this game is definitely a one for the future and a game changer
Thanks GM. One thing to contest - VR is actually excellent, but takes work to dial it in (its my thing). Settings are in game (some are confusing and make things worse) and also on GPU software. Having said this, I am using Quest 3 and a 4090. I manage to run on ALL max settings and its almost as good as good as AMS2 1.6. Better than everthing else (I have tested all this back to back in the last week). Happy to share settings if you want to do a video.
Exactly, it feels pretty good but I noticed I keep correcting my steering where I don't need to, and sometimes don't correct when I have to. It's not terrible but a bit weird.
Unpopular opinion but I think the physics are mid. Gotta slide for speed in hairpins and there’s nothing that feels intuitive about it. Just does not feel like a car and no feeling of weight to the car either.
I can’t take GM serious. I’ve watched him race in every sim. His inputs are terrible, just watch, over correct, twitchy, jerks the wheel. Learn how to enter an apex, hone your skills. Just because you’ve been doing it a long time doesn’t mean you know everything or are good. You’ve just been shitty for longer then some
Your really knocking out the videos. Really interesting too. I was wondering if it would be possible sometime down the track if could make a video demonstrating a sim that you consider to have the best FFB right now, In your case probably AC and maybe a couple that you would consider are lacking in certain areas. On the same track/tracks with the same car. Just narrowing it down to a few specific sections of a circuit that best demonstrate particular points. I for one would find it very interesting. I also understand it would take a fair bit off work and time. You always bring a certain seance of sanity and blinding logic to the genre of sim racing. so a big thank you from myself.
I still really want to try it, im sure id love it, but all the content id want to drive in LMU i already have in AMS2, plus AMS2 has so much more that i like (historic stuff, indycars, literally every F1 era from the 60's onwards) I feel like i know i will continue to play AMS2 regardless, so why get LMU? Im waiting for that one feature or piece of content that sells me on it, so far its not there
@TrackDayMedia The content you want is in AMS2 in the same way it's in Forza 4, but it's a very different experience totally worth the price. Given the focus of LMU the cars are done to a much higher standard! Not knocking AMS2 it's a decent all rounder, but for hypercars, lmp2, GTE and LMGT3 these sims are different leagues (as expected given the focus!)
Some might not be aware but rFactor has a reset FFB feature that you can bind to a button. Maybe LMU has it too? In rF2 I would have to hit it every other session because the wheel would go limp. Speaking of rF2, do you think it is dead now that LMU is out James?
The slide at 4:20 is a great example of one of the ISI/rFactor physics engine's long standing major physics issues going back to even before F1 Ch 99-02. You properly applied opposite lock but the car kept rotating more & more as if the physics engine was ignoring your opposite lock. Then, in order to avoid the typical ISI snap-overcorrect (which tends to happen when applying a completely natural and proper amount of opposite lock), you returned the wheel back to around the centre position (even though that's the last thing you'd want to do in the same situation in real life) and then just waited for the slide to finish off on it's own. Ridiculous physics behaviour. Also, instead of the car's inertia keeping the car's direction of travel heading towards the outside of the corner, the car instead ends up turning sharply towards the inside of track almost as if you simply decided to make a sharp turn with incredible amounts of front-end grip rather than controlling a rear-end slide. This is completely ridiculously poor, unnatural, and just flat out wrong over-the-limit physics / vehicle behaviour that exists in every iteration of the ISI / rFactor physics engine from it's latest version in RF2 & LMU all the way back to even before F1 Ch 99-02.
The sim trolly spin it's weard , maybe it's to do with rotational slip / grip and in real.lofe front tires resist this but in a sim past a point it's like front tires basically have no way to counteract that type of rotational twisting.
@@GamerMuscleVideos The thing that's frustrating is that this behaviour is so much less prevalent in other sim engines. AC being the best at it in "modern" sims and NK Pro (2nd place) and especially LFS (1st) being the absolute best ever at it. Another thing that's frustrating is that it seems the devs are either A) unaware of it or B) unable to dig deep into the core underlying physics engine and/or core underlying tyre model to fix it. It's been going on for 20+ years in every iteration of the engine.
Wow, reading this comment section you would think GMV personally attacked your dog .... like what is going on in here? LMU loved you for calling out iR and now they hate you cause you said one bad thing ?
You don't have to drive a real race car to know if there are massive physics differences , for sure you probably do for all the subtle stuff but we are talking about really large scale things. Like you can play take on helicopters and know they are not realistic to dcs or you can tell dcs is better than MSFS it's really obvious physics stuff.
Look at that, GMV has grown and is becoming a real professional. Well done, a very nice positivity sandwich with a little criticism in the middle. ☺ Cheers!
FFB/Physics are best on the market for me, GT3's are different from GTE's though, just need to get used to them. FFB is subjective, I have to say it's the best sim for me where I can feel what the tyre is doing. Everyone has there own opinion and that is what they are, opinions, nothing more. So thank you for your opinion, but that is all it is, you will always get people disagreeing with you, as you put your opinions out there, so don't take it personally. When you say people don't know how good FFB can be, this is still only based on what you believe it to be and other people may see it differently. All I know is this title has reignited by love for Sim Racing as I have spent the last year playing iRacing and it feels boring to drive compared to this in my opinion. On a more general note, I wish I could get my Simagic haptic motors working with the ABS. Feeling it through the wheel is cool but needs to be felt through the pedals. Any advice on how to enable this would be great!!!
For me there is one more big negative: the apearance of the cars in front of you during the night stints is ridiculous. No reflections at all, no shades, just plain solid colour like in cartoons. Besides that LMU is absolutely great and the racing feeling is somewhat miraculous.
The reason I stopped playing is because I couldn’t load into an online race without FFB stopping. Game has a ton of potential but I’m not completely convinced on it yet.
I agree with the physics being better in LMU versus AMS2 but man I prefer and enjoy AMS2 more because of how good the ffb is in that sim even now more so with this steering rack custom ffb file. Wish more sims would allow custom ffb files.
This is in a great state considering how recently it came out, and how long other sims took to mature. With SimHub being basically standard for most other types of feedback, I wonder if we'll ever reach a point where it's normal for it or a similar tool to be able to take over the wheel's force feedback as well. Maybe that would need cooperation between parties that wouldn't want to help each other, IDK, but it'd be nice as an option, and could also mean games with minimal budget for force feedback (e.g. arcade racers) could still plumb in the telemetry to let someone else do it, as well as replacing or tweaking the FFB in games that have their own, if you don't like it. Would be neat, given how great SimHub works at everything it does.
I've over a 1000 hours in AC and I really don't understand this. Rf2 and LMU are for me objectively better than even AC for every aspect of ffb EXCEPT the one you mention. It's actually true that AC gave you great feel for the adhesion limit of tyre to the road part. But that is only one part of what FFB does and in every other department LMU and RF2 are superior IN MY EXPERIENCE. I do only have a g920 so maybe this is a DD thing. Opinions are like tea mugs - everyone has one and they prefer their own.
FFB does feel strange , I can’t put my finger on what it’s missing. The center feels a bit light and at times I can’t feel the limit in the wheel. Asetek base.
GMV you can map a button for”force feedback reset” so if it disappears you just press it. It happens to me if i fiddle with simhub or something outside the sim. But just pressing it gets ffb back
For me one of the biggest obstacle to this game is graphics. I have a really hard time managing good FPS and image quality at the same time with my triple 1440p setup and 3080 GPU. Also, I dont like how the cars behave on rotation at the apex. It is not natural for me. This being said, I havent had the opportunity to try GT3s yet.
I’m vr only so yesterday was my first day in LMU and I absolutely love it, so much so within one hour of testing it I purchased the season pass. It’s so natural to drive, I love how it feels under braking, over kerbs and when going through high speed turns at Spa. I found it really enjoyable to drive and clicked straight away and it gave me most of the info I need to get quicker. I do agree with you that the physics are lovely and me being an RF2 fan boy, I was left a little underwhelmed by the FFB. I did make the mistake of just assuming it will work perfectly on my DD2 RF2 preset. I had to turn up the wheel base by ten and in game strength ten higher and it feels a lot better, but I agree with you it’s not the best and most dynamic FFB out there, but it gives me enough info to be immersed and get quicker. VR runs and looks very similar to RF2, I can’t wait to upgrade to 5000 series and a modern team red cpu.
You’re not going crazy with the sound issues Yesterday I lost all sound over a certain rpm Also had a second delay sometimes from throttle on to engine note and it throws you off so much
Well you touched on another controversial topic. Real drivers will tell you that effects are not realistic but can helpful in a sim. I would say the more direct the ffb is the better and i don‘t need effects I find it counterintuitive.
Direct FFB with dynamic range are fine , the issue is LMU has no dynamic range for tire slip its just super aggressive self aligning for rear and super aggressive suspension. For example rack steer in AMS1 or AMS2 is no real "fake" effects its just direct tire feel and it gives you tons of info. I still think drivers need something else but i can see why that should be optional big issue with lots of real race cars is the wheel forces and detail in real life are not what the driver uses to drive from but they use Gforce on body so its no issue , obvously this is a huge issue for racing sims that are not trying to be RC car sims. I have driven cars in real life with a ton of wheel feel and some with 0 feel at all for tires rotation or anything
@@GamerMuscleVideos I remember interesting comment from RaceBeyondMatter (he drives (or used to) real cars too, was that although the feedback from FFB/haptic pedals is very different from real cars, but to his brain it does not matter how he receives the info - either via real G-s or via wheel/pedal vibration - it has the same effect - the information is important, not the channel how he got.
I play this in VR...latest update made it easier to launch. I have a 4080s and 7800x3d, performance is very good,smooth and graphicaly great. It's second to AMS2.
You have the gold standard of gaming PCs right now... I'd hope that it runs well! If it can't run on your PC with those specs, there's no hope for the rest of us 😂
@Starmast3rmusic lol, I know. But I'm pretty sure GM has a decently beefy PC as well... I was just replying to him stating the game is not good for VR players. I think if you have a 3070 with a 5800x you'll be fine. I also use Open XR and bypass steamvr.
the discord is having a fun conversation about FFB today, just before your video dropped. im in agreement. i really like LMU, but it needs a lot of ffb work...we'll see if it gets it. Right now all i hear is, "LMU has ONLY the REAL FFB, NO EFFECTS!" argument. and rF2 players who think its the best ffb in the market already. Although i will say the devs have said they are working on ffb and trying to always make people want to play their sim. so that is positive.
There is no way to explain it to people that "don't get it" they litrally have to experience it and have it shown to them and explained to them and they also have to be a moderately good driver or moderately good at flight sims to really understand the point. Things are diluted by the fact that a person can rote learn to drive to top E-sports level I mean just look at RC car driving as well , no FFB but people are super fast because they know all the lines and brake points and inputs from sheer practice and internalising physics knowledge ( which a skilled person has to do anyway) Then things are confused by the "realistic steering " argument which is besides the point and also not a binary situation Then things are confused by people not knowing how much you drive real cars from Gforces and how much that fundamentally grounds a driver and also lets them drive premptively Then people also don't understand the abstraction and the degrees to which things can be abstracted and in what ways make sense lol then people also don't know the relivence of low frequency ffb and high freqeuncy effects And finally people are also rather confused over the degree to which motion rigs can and cannot work or help. Then how this relates to low and high end FFB wheels .. Basically its just way too much on top of also needing to know about racing sims operate and also on top of physics and how that interacts with everything , so basically having had these conversations with ACC fans for years i know its a totally lost cause without as I say sitting down and showing people. Its VERY MUCH like VR when I'd explain the ins and outs of VR back in the 2000s and people would just not accept it or understand things until you put a VR HMD on there head or ideally one of the more modern HMDS from last 4 years.
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@@GamerMuscleVideos Will share this comment around if you don't mind... One of the other problems in the industry is the language that we use to describe effects, force feedback and haptics in general. Often times new people coming into the sim market, have certain expectations from the few track events they have done. They get stuck or psychologically anchored to certain terms such as loss of tractions, latency and haptics, but these terms are very colloquial or informal words used within certain communities to loosely explain some very complicated ideas. One of our gripes here is the term traction loss. What traction loss means to us as engineers is a lower coefficient of friction... Something measurable and calculated by the physics engine. What the community refers to is the motion platform swaying or yawing from side to side, and sometimes on the same pivot rotation (which is not accurate). There are so many motion and FFB concepts out there. Some are gimmicks created to trick the brain and others are more clear representations of what is, and sometimes what is, is not the best. It's hard to measure preferences or how something "feels" to someone. That's a hard game to play and why here at Sigma we stick to pure motion telemetry as it's the better long-term game to play, as software and physics engine get better over time.
Absolutely 100 % Agreed .. It's the FFB that let's me down every time I fire up LMU. And for this reason alone I don't play LMU very often. Very Disappointing.
I am very surprised when people say that this game is fun to drive. Absolutely shitty force feedback does not allow me to understand what is happening with the car, maybe all people except me still feel g-forces on their body sitting at home, but I do not, and since I do not understand what is happening, it is impossible to talk about fun from driving. I would rather drive unrealistic cars 7 seconds faster than in life than suffer from shitty decisions of developers
Hello fellow tea drinker! For the neutral story: in the settings you map a button for the neutral then you change a setting that disabled downshifting to neutral when a button is mapped. I think yours it's a fair review however since most people don't know what a good FFB is this will do just fine. It's not amazing but I think it's good enough ( my opinion of course) Also I don't understand people in general going at war with you about FFB. People just play what makes you happy. Whether mister FFB GOD HERE is right or wrong don't matter. Hell will be still our favourite tea drinker😂
Ah about VR there is a file from GitHub that makes the whole thing so much Opencomposite or something like that don't remember l. I play LMU exclusively in VR
I hate it .I get no sense of speed no matter what fov I use. The feel through the wheel feels like nothing. I cant feel the car. I have a simucube pro. If someone has a good profile let me know
I think every sim right now is good enough for nice Racing. Every sim has a downside, iracing rf2 ac acc raceroom, every sim has one big flaw, so it depends on taste. I am an iracer since 14 years, but now i drive lmu more than iracing. Maybe this will change when iracing gets its new engine, or ac evo is ready.
i agree that you don't get much of the front but the rear is communicated well IMO. exhibit A) bald man oversteered out of every corner for 21 minutes straight, i doubt you would've had this issue with ffb on. also this may be semantics but wouldn't all sims be easier to drive in some way if you turned off FFB? i've done races in iRacing without FFB etc. and just showed me how much of the feedback we get from the sim is just visual, and how much one relies on memorizing the track. not that your complaints about LMU's FFB implementation are unfounded, just trying to add some nuance. you should definitely test VR yourself
yah aggressive oversteer FFB with no real subtle detail is basically one of the most basic aspects of FFB but its something lots of people latch onto and its a big thing for new drivers as new drivers tend to lose rear easily for a multitude of reasons. Yes in some way no FFB can make all games easier in specific ways but for different reasons good or bad it depends on the specific things.
@GamerMuscleVideos You did not notice the lack of grass ! I am flabergasted ! That aside though I strongly disagree about the stability of the software, it is still very difficult to get it running appropriately, far from plug and play. In my half day of testing yesterday it crashed 3 times on me, I had to restart it countless time with the game suddenly refusing to accept any keyboard input (and no I don't use anything fancy as hardware or software). Pretty much an early access feeling, which hurts that you have to pay for pricey DLC and an upcoming subscription...
I disagree with the fact that you can't feel understeer, you not only feel it, but you can see on the FFB bar on the HUD, that when you overdrive the bar loses FFB force, as if the car was entering the dynamic friction of the tires. It's subtle, but you can feel it. I understand that in the AC1 you can feel this loss of grip of the front tires better, it even has an enhanced understeer option, which is totally fake. I don't know how much dynamic range a race car's FFB must have, because I've never driven one. But for sure in the LMU it's more subtle than in the AC1. Maybe you're putting too much whisky in your tea!
DLC is basicly mostly 3d models, i guess thats for covering the 3d scanning/modelling costs (which are the same regardless of the beta status of the app alone). IMO thats fair - you dont want to be a beta tester on wider range of cars/tracks, just skip those. What would maybe more sense to lower the subscription cost while in early access - that would be fair (and pro already includes all DLC's).
The problem is that they ran out of funding like half a year ago... They had the choice between trying to sell dlc or just shut the whole thing down. Still feels icky and justifiably puts people off, but they didn't really have much choice.
To be fair to them, the content promised is complete and the DLC is new content that was not promised in the base game. If there was DLC features for an unfinished game I would agree with you.
@ali09gaming58 I'm on a 4090 and a crystal light. 3090 and G2 Should be fine. Depends on the rest of the settings. AA and Postprocessing hits pretty hard, but there's not that much visual difference. AA 2x or 4x, PP on low Use the Mbucchia OpenXR tool to enable CAS filtering and set it to your liking, I use 100%.
The only thing I’ll say is that you really like the fake FFB of AC which is ac unique approach. Also lock to horizon is for the kind of people do order well done steak.
These actually a meme , AC 1 doesn't have "fake" FFB , that's just the additional options that you can turn off and most do , it's also not really unique.
I think the in-car sounds are some of the worst while so much of the rest is really great. It is echoey and dull. It feels like they turned bass down and you’re a listening to the car through an aluminum can.
@@GamerMuscleVideos Wouldn't it be nice to have cockpit view and an option for external sound. Possibly not that hard to implement based on my lack of knowledge about game programing. There would be a few games that would benefit from it. Sound is highly underrated in racing games and not enough attention is given to it. Apart from information it give you an emotional feeling.
I feel dirty for saying this and I might need to bathe after typing this, but I agree with everything you said in this video - both positive and negative. The FFB is a major downer for me. I want so much to love this title, but can't because of the complete lack of feel of what going on with the front axle and the tires.
I wanted to watch the whole video before commenting because I do fully agree with most of what you've said, but I truly don't understand the majority of the negativity towards the force feedback. Primarily with regard to the feel at the limit of the front end. To be clear, I'm no where near as experienced and I recognize that. I am in no way trying to imply i know more than you. I don't. These are just my opinions as a very average sim racer who would like to open a dialogue about it. I have spent hours in just about every major sim and put LMU's ffb behind only AC1, RBR and maybe GTR2. I wasn't able to watch your entire stream but in the 40 minutes or so I saw, you mentioned how bad the ffb feel was during your outlaps. On a couple occasions, you didn't even finish the full out lap. I had to leave during the race when your ffb cut out entirely so I never got to see if you spent time talking about the ffb once your tires were up to temperature. I have to assume you did, but if not, this was a major omission. You're definitely right, there is nothing at all through the wheel when the tires are cold. But from interviews/videos I've seen, plus actually getting to talk to some drivers at the IMSA races I've been to, outlaps on cold slicks really do feel like that. Once the tires come up to temp, the feel through the wheel comes back. I personally feel LMU recreates this better than any other sim. Once there's heat in the tires, I can actually feel the point of understeer through the front which only a few sims do correctly.There's still plenty to be improved upon (namely VR jesus christ), but If nothing else, I feel LMU's intention towards authentically recreating the WEC experience can be commended. I hope they're able to gain some traction and continue to improve the game for years to come because it can only get better from here
It was our first race with this update and the FFB was off due to a bug 😂. Was just what I happened to have recorded B roll from. Keep in mind I was also reading chat and talking whast driving as it's from a live stream 😆
I agree with the ffb in this game (and others) I can drive this and enjoy it but I know it could be so so much better. We have the hardware but somehow in many games the ffb has gone worse. AMS1 and AC are old games but they got it right🤔 Why is this? I find it weird. We should have God like ffb in all games but it is just numb. You seem to be the only one calling this out when it comes to ffb. Keep doing that. People are missing out great ffb!
God bless the FFB Messiah, the only true and eternally great. May he enlighten us with his wisdom, for he is the only enlightened one who can show us the way to the holy FFB Church.
A very fair and balanced review, I feel. For me this is unquestionably sim of the year and, considering it's Motorsport Games and the attendant baggage of the past, also the surprise sim of the year too. The development team clearly has a love for the subject matter, as LMU is being meticulously polished all the time and, as you rightly say, the sim in its current form is worthy of a 1.0 release. I still rock a G27 and I don't recognise the FFB issues you outline. Could that possibly be the rFactor heritage of the sim and is it likely that the FFB is more suited to ye olde belt drive? Not sure, anyway I still love my G27 (with the Ricmotech load cell brake mod), and it feels fabulous on all sims, but actually really good on LMU for whatever reason. Up until this latest update, the performance wasn't all that good, but they've clearly been beavering away at graphic optimisations and it not only runs better, but I think looks brilliant too. There's just something about this sim that I find so immersive. I kind of regret getting the new AMS2 DLC at full price, because LMU is simply far more enjoyable as an endurance sim, also with that all important, if a bit limited, race save option. I dont' envisage spending much time on AMS2 in the coming days, but we'll see about that I guess. Anyway congrats on a fine summation of where this one is at. I'm really excited where it's headed.
@@GamerMuscleVideos fair enough. Doesn't feel aggressive in any way though. Very smooth though positive in fact. I actually don't like a lot of FFB and find that the G27 allows me to dial in just right amount, for me anyway. Every year I say I'll go to DD, but if it ain't broke don't fix it is a bit of a motto anyway. Maybe next year (I've been saying that since before Covid, lol).
You know what GamerBastardVideos, I wrote a whole comment about wtf are you talking about with the FFB, the rF2 and LMU FFB are the best in the industry. I just had more time to play for about an hour and you're right, they definitely changed it. What sucks is that this is kind of how it felt when LMU came out, and then they came to their senses and made the FFB feel like rF2. Now they've flipped back to removing a lot of the feel in the steering, pretty disappointing and i hope they don't keep it like this. It's not so bad that it sucks to play LMU, but they really need to bring back that rF2 FFB magic.
Im interested in why you think FFB is bad, when I have heard raving about rf2 FFB in the past. I bet they changed little about the FFB code from rf2, its.just the car physics that are different.
RF2 FFB is massively overated it's just based on people repeating what they have heard they can't actually quantify the specific aspects and what is specifically good or bad.
Which title do I buy to experience the best quality FFB in a circuit racing title? I wasn’t particularly impressed with AMS2 although the general game physics were so bad I found it unplayable anyway (circa. Q4 2022), and it’s clearly not in my beloved iRacing. So which title just for best FFB and ignoring any other attribute?
I'm a controller player, now that most people aren't reading this comment here's why I think FFB sucks in some of the sims. I have a G923 so I know what FFB feels like in most modern sims, but I honestly hate that wheel enough to the point I just went back to controller. Since I have no FFB I have gotten used to judge the car mostly on visual, and sometimes sound, cues to understand what the car is doing. Most games that you say have bad FFB are the same ones I have a hard time figuring out the car, and vice-versa. I wonder if it's a case where the tyres, or physics, are vague themselves, therefore giving the FFB nothing to relay back to the driver. It's definitely not the only reason, but I wouldn't say it's impossible. There's the case of AMS2, where the FFB has detail but the way the cars drive would make you think you'd feel nothing. Just food for thought I guess. So far all tyre/physics changes to LMU have improved the driving and I'm all for that. Non-ABS cars still have a weird tendency to snap under braking like if you pulled the handbrake, then you look at the replay and there's no lock up, in general the inputs look fine, but the car just wipes out somewhat randomly at times. That aspect reminds me of AMS2 or iRacing, but in LMU it's only under braking. I know it's nitpicking but so far all these physics changes have addressed issues in my nitpick list, so I wonder if it's just a matter of time until all of them are solved and I can truly enjoy this game. The quality of the tracks and car models is unmatched, the game runs well and looks clean so I really want to like it.
Completely disagree on the FFB take. Interesting how you talk about the tires grip going away and coming back but then say there is a disconnect between the FFB and what the car is doing. Are both true or are you talking out of both sides of your mouth, I can’t tell.
Thier's three type of race games, free roam, arcade style games like Assetto Corsa Evo, Test Drive Solar Crown and The Crew Motorfest, some are in the middle like Gran Turismo, the Forza games and EA F1, but so I didn't waste $150(AUS) on a TS-PC wheel base (no wheel rim) and waste time building a sim-rig from MDF that looks like the original Daytona USA cabient, we still need smaller developers to release games like LMU. I want to see more smaller developers make games with licensed tie-in's to real motorsport, and with motorsport regulations the way they are now, it never been easier. F4, TCR, GT3 series all use the same regulations around the world, do for these series what ACC did for GT3 racing. Maybe this games won't sell has many, but the developer cost I believe would also be lower, with fewer cars to develop for???, Things have changed a lot since F1 2010.
Tbh, Forza games, both motorsport 8 and Horizon, have remarkebly good ffb, the dynamic range on the grip or lack of grip in the front is very well done, sure those games has their downsides, but the ffb is not one of them, once you get your ffb settings right (and guides on the internet is NOT right) its a blast to drive in those games!
It's a damn sight better than ACC and we're in early access. They've turned EVO into Forza Horizon so I think it's LMU going forward for competitive sim racers like me.
Turned? AC has always been about driving and a wide selection of cars. It was never aimed at dethroning serious dedicated racing titles like ACC or LMU, and we don't need that. Horizon? Lol. AC itself has a ton of free roam mods, people love it
@@msum23 the whole in game credits and having to buy your own petrol and blot on parts though... It's just starting to feel like the Project Cars 3 debacle. Hope I'm wrong.
To me iRacing has the best looking graphics and ACC has the worst. For some reason, people feel it’s the complete opposite. iRacing looks crisp and fresh with its high details, high quality textures without all these filters and effects. And runs smoothly too. I hope AC EVO will run smoothly from the start. I really struggle to enjoy the new Le Mans game.
What are you smoking iRacing has the most antique graphics of all actual sims! Even raceroom tried to revamp their engine with new shaders etc. The best graphics for now are definitely AMS2 and I would say Rennsport. LMU does the best job at rendering tracks.
It's sad that the majority of Simracers will disagree with me and will say its XYZ setting Exactly like with ACC and other sims , however you have to keep in mind whenever we point out the sims that do it right people all basically agree and agree with the specifc points and reasons .. so its a bit strange that people get so defensive
No its not settings , Yes The bald git knows what he talking about , Yes Many Real World drivers agree with me , Yes its a dumb hill to die on , Maybe consider that i know what I'm talking about when it comes to this one thing.
Who knows what it is ? BLESSED BE THE BEHOLDERS OF THE TRUTH ! - I welcome the dislikes
The discord seems a bit off. They just muted me for asking questions about what they intend to do about all the SR B0 drivers ruining lobbies in beginner & now being in the subscription paid for servers, Instant mute.
I know nothing, so all what you're saying make sense 😂
@@TIMMAAYY007 I actually used to speak french but these videos are in english with an english accent so Its weard to worry about how people say things in there own language , I actually don't care when french people say english stuff in a French accent. And I genuinely love german English accent
@@TIMMAAYY007 You realise that Pronunciation is closely tied to accent and that accent can change pronunciation - you also realise its honestly really a strange thing to care about given that language is about understanding what people mean or are saying and obviously everyone knows what we are talking about with this game and how I have said it.
If you are going to get upset by how I pronounce some things the way I spell will make your brain fall out your nostrils.
To be honest it’s the best/easiest online experience I’ve had in sim racing. Super fun to drive and easy to get to the limit, also drives intuitively which is a biggie
If you don’t love the ffb in LMU you are either mocking, trolling or simply need another dd-system. I play AC, ACC, RR, Automobilista 2 , RFactor 2 and IRacing. This by far is the best FFB. I’ve had that FFB bug too, go back to garage and it’s there again. Needs a fix though. But i guess you are the FFB professor.
There is literally a button mapping to reset FFB. It's been a bug since rF2 and the mapping is in that too.
or he just has a different opinion
@@bhendrikabel I agree
@@bhendrikabel He had enormous success with click baiting the ACC fan boys... However he was pretty spot on with that. I never got on with ACC. LMU is feeling pretty on point to me and I have had to use the in game dampener because my T818 is trying to disassemble my sturdy simlab rig.
I play the same games as you, but i still find rFactor 2 to have way more satisfying FFB than any other sim title.
I almost only race GTE and now GT3 in LMU though.
I have a Fanatec clubsport DD+ 15nm base.
I dont get it. I agree with you on the topic of FFB Regarding AC ACC Iracing etc. so i thought we would be on the same page but i cant agree with you on LMU FFB for me its one of the best feeling sims along with AC and rf2.
something MAJOR changed. to be honest i think its a bug on some wheel bases. i main iracing but always hopped on lmu when i was bored. you're correct the ffb is AMAZING! from the road feel to the side wall flex its all there. i think when they started implementing the cold tire physics something got messed up or some wheel bases are not reacting properly. recently i have had insane amounts of ffb fade and this weird filtered feeling "its as if the crazy road feel is gone and i just get random forces". its not the same ffb that i felt when i first picked up lmu. i have no idea why but i kind of agree at the moment for me the ffb feels terrible. i even hopped on rfactor 2 to see if i was crazy and im not.
the devs have said there is a bug with the game with moza wheels. gm is using moza but then jardier isnt. jardier says its quite good but needs more feel on the back end. who knows lol.
as for the sound thing... thats never been a thought for me.
Maybe that's why I don't feel it since I'm using a VRS DFP. FFB for me is consistent and feels great.
If someone asked me which sim to start sim racing with, its this one. No brainer.
No way. Acc. Way more car feel. Try it. I'll bet ull see.
I’ve been a loyal supporter of rF2 and LMU from the very beginning, and I absolutely love the software and the community around it. That’s why it pains me to say that I’m genuinely disappointed with the force feedback on the new LMGT3 cars after the latest update.
Here are my key concerns:
GTE FFB Feels Superior: The GTE cars offer a much nicer and more pronounced FFB experience. Compared to those, the LMGT3 feels lackluster.
Comparison to rF2: Using the same track and a GT3 car (not LMGT3) on rF2, the FFB feels far more satisfying. The difference is night and day.
Luxury Car Feeling: The LMGT3 FFB reminds me of driving a luxury car with power steering-it feels overly refined and disconnected, rather than raw and engaging.
Numb Center: The FFB feels particularly numb around the center, which detracts from immersion and control.
No In-Game FFB Intensity Adjustment: After all this time, we still don’t have an option to adjust FFB intensity in-game. This would go a long way in addressing individual preferences.
I know I might sound overly critical, but my intention is to provide constructive feedback. I had high hopes for S397 to set a new standard in the GT3 market with this update, and this falls short of my personal hopes and expectations.
Can report, VR is astonishingly good. Been in VR since day one and with this update performance is terrific and visually bar the AMS2 amaising light effects, this looks to me more real.
@GamerMuscleVideos You haven't tried VR and reported that it is not working well while this update made it amazing out of the box, no fiddling and great looks. Put a disclaimer on the video quick! :D
I would say vr is 8 out 10. Its very good, but it doesn't look the sharpest, will have hiccups at times based on track details, and doesn't have a customizable HUD atm.
Man I couldn't get it to run in VR so I returned it after trying for 40 minutes
Returned after only 40 mins, what sort of VR enthusiast are you? 😊
The hud is customizable in scale and widgets.
Come on guys, VR needs a bit of love and attention to get the very best out of your gear with any VR SIM. It's just par for the course.
Can also confirm VR is fantastic in this and runs better than AMS2 & iRacing. Lacks hud moving but can now resize at least.
I agree with you. Keep telling the truth because that's why most of us are here.
That said, do some more RaceRoom content now after you have been focused on the newer sims. It's stuff like this video that make us appreciate RaceRoom = the sim that doesn't do really anything the best, but also does nothing badly. RaceRoom is the only package that doesn't put me off playing it. The other sims all have some heartbreaking deal breaking issue.
Weve been discussing this in the Discord and we have a feeling its linked to Camber and Tyres, it will only become alot better once these issues get fixed which will proabably take a long time as its alot more core than other things to adjust with tyre models
To be honest RF2 has also always had massively overated FFB on the grand scheme of things I think sure generating better FFB from underlying physics / steering rack is ideal however in the end lots of cars especially GT3 have really bad wheel forces to then present to player.
So all sims really need to look at other ways of giving the player the info to drive from ( unless the rack forces do work)
Beam for example offers some other options as it's just a simple fact that specific gemotary gives no FFB or even inverted FFB lol 😂
Obviously it's not number 1 priority for developers but FFB is life !
Blessed be the FFB
@@GamerMuscleVideos FFB is something that is very important, LMU just has the steering rack forces from the tyres and Suspension but it feels more like just the suspension with damping not the tyres if that makes sense its hard to explain
One thing I like about LMU and rF2 is that you take a few laps and heat up the tires, you get 5ish laps (maybe 15 minutes) at full grip, and then they start to slowly drop off and you actually have to change how you drive the track throughout the race. Everything I've heard from real drivers this is how it is.
What's odd is the FFB being a little off seems to be just the GT3 cars for me. I went back and drove the GTE and Hypercars, and after warming up the tires, they still feel good like they did before the update. So I'm guessing it has to do with how the game translates the GT3 tire into FFB. Its pretty low force and then ramps up dramatically, instead of smooth ramp up like in the GTE and HYP. Wonder if some of it is default setup related too.
I noticed this too. Maybe their simulating how little traction cold tires have or something, but even one lap into a practice session the FFB weight ramps way up.
I'm also someone affected by the engine sound not matching the rpm/gear where I think there's another lower gear available and instead end up in neutral. It's like the developers know this and had to put in a don't shift into neutral feature
I’m sorry gamermuscle I’m going to have to disagree with you on ffb because I honestly feel like being a esports driver who’s come from Assetto Corsa Competizione so I also know what I’m talking about, LMU probably has the best FFB I’ve felt in a long time there’s a lot cars on acc where I can’t feel like what the car is doing. There have been gt3 drivers and lmp2 that have played it and have said the FFB is great and how you feel more connected to the car and I would agree with that tbh. I’m not too sure how long you played it for or if you even tried seeking descent settings to make it feel more immersive. End of the day it’s still brand new nothing was ever perfect to start with but I’m sure this game is definitely a one for the future and a game changer
@@bigprenta4264 for me it’s got too weak FFB in the low speed. How would you improve the feeling of losing the rear in the low speed?
Thanks GM. One thing to contest - VR is actually excellent, but takes work to dial it in (its my thing). Settings are in game (some are confusing and make things worse) and also on GPU software. Having said this, I am using Quest 3 and a 4090. I manage to run on ALL max settings and its almost as good as good as AMS2 1.6. Better than everthing else (I have tested all this back to back in the last week). Happy to share settings if you want to do a video.
13:46 haha love the overlay! Surely its your settings, lol
Exactly, it feels pretty good but I noticed I keep correcting my steering where I don't need to, and sometimes don't correct when I have to.
It's not terrible but a bit weird.
Unpopular opinion but I think the physics are mid. Gotta slide for speed in hairpins and there’s nothing that feels intuitive about it. Just does not feel like a car and no feeling of weight to the car either.
I can’t take GM serious. I’ve watched him race in every sim. His inputs are terrible, just watch, over correct, twitchy, jerks the wheel. Learn how to enter an apex, hone your skills. Just because you’ve been doing it a long time doesn’t mean you know everything or are good. You’ve just been shitty for longer then some
Your really knocking out the videos. Really interesting too.
I was wondering if it would be possible sometime down the track if could make a video demonstrating a sim that you consider to have the best FFB right now, In your case probably AC and maybe a couple that you would consider are lacking in certain areas. On the same track/tracks with the same car. Just narrowing it down to a few specific sections of a circuit that best demonstrate particular points.
I for one would find it very interesting.
I also understand it would take a fair bit off work and time.
You always bring a certain seance of sanity and blinding logic to the genre of sim racing. so a big thank you from myself.
I still really want to try it, im sure id love it, but all the content id want to drive in LMU i already have in AMS2, plus AMS2 has so much more that i like (historic stuff, indycars, literally every F1 era from the 60's onwards) I feel like i know i will continue to play AMS2 regardless, so why get LMU? Im waiting for that one feature or piece of content that sells me on it, so far its not there
My personal feeling going from LMU to AMS2 is like going to an arcade races. AMS2 just feels too forgiving while LMU feels more hard core. To me.
@TrackDayMedia The content you want is in AMS2 in the same way it's in Forza 4, but it's a very different experience totally worth the price. Given the focus of LMU the cars are done to a much higher standard! Not knocking AMS2 it's a decent all rounder, but for hypercars, lmp2, GTE and LMGT3 these sims are different leagues (as expected given the focus!)
@@irijgillman1815Correct. AMS2 is more simcade.
That was an old rF1 special, where disabling the FFB made you faster. Guess some things never change.
Some might not be aware but rFactor has a reset FFB feature that you can bind to a button. Maybe LMU has it too? In rF2 I would have to hit it every other session because the wheel would go limp. Speaking of rF2, do you think it is dead now that LMU is out James?
LMU has it also👍
Oh shi you can just press that whenever the ffb decides to randomly cut? Does it turn the wheel off or it just quickly resets?
@henrylynch9437 It resets FFB immediately. Just keep driving. 👍
@ dope 🔥
The slide at 4:20 is a great example of one of the ISI/rFactor physics engine's long standing major physics issues going back to even before F1 Ch 99-02. You properly applied opposite lock but the car kept rotating more & more as if the physics engine was ignoring your opposite lock. Then, in order to avoid the typical ISI snap-overcorrect (which tends to happen when applying a completely natural and proper amount of opposite lock), you returned the wheel back to around the centre position (even though that's the last thing you'd want to do in the same situation in real life) and then just waited for the slide to finish off on it's own. Ridiculous physics behaviour. Also, instead of the car's inertia keeping the car's direction of travel heading towards the outside of the corner, the car instead ends up turning sharply towards the inside of track almost as if you simply decided to make a sharp turn with incredible amounts of front-end grip rather than controlling a rear-end slide.
This is completely ridiculously poor, unnatural, and just flat out wrong over-the-limit physics / vehicle behaviour that exists in every iteration of the ISI / rFactor physics engine from it's latest version in RF2 & LMU all the way back to even before F1 Ch 99-02.
The sim trolly spin it's weard , maybe it's to do with rotational slip / grip and in real.lofe front tires resist this but in a sim past a point it's like front tires basically have no way to counteract that type of rotational twisting.
@@GamerMuscleVideos The thing that's frustrating is that this behaviour is so much less prevalent in other sim engines. AC being the best at it in "modern" sims and NK Pro (2nd place) and especially LFS (1st) being the absolute best ever at it. Another thing that's frustrating is that it seems the devs are either A) unaware of it or B) unable to dig deep into the core underlying physics engine and/or core underlying tyre model to fix it. It's been going on for 20+ years in every iteration of the engine.
Wow, reading this comment section you would think GMV personally attacked your dog .... like what is going on in here? LMU loved you for calling out iR and now they hate you cause you said one bad thing ?
The best part is none of us drive real race cars but think we know how realistic one or the other is
You don't have to drive a real race car to know if there are massive physics differences , for sure you probably do for all the subtle stuff but we are talking about really large scale things.
Like you can play take on helicopters and know they are not realistic to dcs or you can tell dcs is better than MSFS it's really obvious physics stuff.
It feels like an old outdated game
Look at that, GMV has grown and is becoming a real professional.
Well done, a very nice positivity sandwich with a little criticism in the middle. ☺
Cheers!
FFB/Physics are best on the market for me, GT3's are different from GTE's though, just need to get used to them. FFB is subjective, I have to say it's the best sim for me where I can feel what the tyre is doing. Everyone has there own opinion and that is what they are, opinions, nothing more. So thank you for your opinion, but that is all it is, you will always get people disagreeing with you, as you put your opinions out there, so don't take it personally. When you say people don't know how good FFB can be, this is still only based on what you believe it to be and other people may see it differently. All I know is this title has reignited by love for Sim Racing as I have spent the last year playing iRacing and it feels boring to drive compared to this in my opinion. On a more general note, I wish I could get my Simagic haptic motors working with the ABS. Feeling it through the wheel is cool but needs to be felt through the pedals. Any advice on how to enable this would be great!!!
@@rendrag72 best sim for me too, the physics and tyre model is what keeps me coming back
For me there is one more big negative: the apearance of the cars in front of you during the night stints is ridiculous. No reflections at all, no shades, just plain solid colour like in cartoons. Besides that LMU is absolutely great and the racing feeling is somewhat miraculous.
The reason I stopped playing is because I couldn’t load into an online race without FFB stopping. Game has a ton of potential but I’m not completely convinced on it yet.
Never happened to me yet (Simucube pro)
I agree with the physics being better in LMU versus AMS2 but man I prefer and enjoy AMS2 more because of how good the ffb is in that sim even now more so with this steering rack custom ffb file. Wish more sims would allow custom ffb files.
This is in a great state considering how recently it came out, and how long other sims took to mature.
With SimHub being basically standard for most other types of feedback, I wonder if we'll ever reach a point where it's normal for it or a similar tool to be able to take over the wheel's force feedback as well. Maybe that would need cooperation between parties that wouldn't want to help each other, IDK, but it'd be nice as an option, and could also mean games with minimal budget for force feedback (e.g. arcade racers) could still plumb in the telemetry to let someone else do it, as well as replacing or tweaking the FFB in games that have their own, if you don't like it. Would be neat, given how great SimHub works at everything it does.
I've over a 1000 hours in AC and I really don't understand this. Rf2 and LMU are for me objectively better than even AC for every aspect of ffb EXCEPT the one you mention. It's actually true that AC gave you great feel for the adhesion limit of tyre to the road part. But that is only one part of what FFB does and in every other department LMU and RF2 are superior IN MY EXPERIENCE.
I do only have a g920 so maybe this is a DD thing.
Opinions are like tea mugs - everyone has one and they prefer their own.
FFB does feel strange , I can’t put my finger on what it’s missing. The center feels a bit light and at times I can’t feel the limit in the wheel. Asetek base.
Really not keen on the feeling of the GT3's not a patch on the GTE or LMP2's in my op
I'd buy this if they weren't selling DLC for an unfinished game.
I’m missing the GTEs. The LMGT3 are like every GT3s dull to drive.
GMV you can map a button for”force feedback reset” so if it disappears you just press it. It happens to me if i fiddle with simhub or something outside the sim. But just pressing it gets ffb back
@@Rene_Bo I know I couldn't find what I'd mapped it to lol
For me one of the biggest obstacle to this game is graphics. I have a really hard time managing good FPS and image quality at the same time with my triple 1440p setup and 3080 GPU.
Also, I dont like how the cars behave on rotation at the apex. It is not natural for me. This being said, I havent had the opportunity to try GT3s yet.
I’m vr only so yesterday was my first day in LMU and I absolutely love it, so much so within one hour of testing it I purchased the season pass. It’s so natural to drive, I love how it feels under braking, over kerbs and when going through high speed turns at Spa. I found it really enjoyable to drive and clicked straight away and it gave me most of the info I need to get quicker. I do agree with you that the physics are lovely and me being an RF2 fan boy, I was left a little underwhelmed by the FFB. I did make the mistake of just assuming it will work perfectly on my DD2 RF2 preset. I had to turn up the wheel base by ten and in game strength ten higher and it feels a lot better, but I agree with you it’s not the best and most dynamic FFB out there, but it gives me enough info to be immersed and get quicker. VR runs and looks very similar to RF2, I can’t wait to upgrade to 5000 series and a modern team red cpu.
You’re not going crazy with the sound issues
Yesterday I lost all sound over a certain rpm
Also had a second delay sometimes from throttle on to engine note and it throws you off so much
Well you touched on another controversial topic. Real drivers will tell you that effects are not realistic but can helpful in a sim.
I would say the more direct the ffb is the better and i don‘t need effects I find it counterintuitive.
Direct FFB with dynamic range are fine , the issue is LMU has no dynamic range for tire slip its just super aggressive self aligning for rear and super aggressive suspension.
For example rack steer in AMS1 or AMS2 is no real "fake" effects its just direct tire feel and it gives you tons of info.
I still think drivers need something else but i can see why that should be optional
big issue with lots of real race cars is the wheel forces and detail in real life are not what the driver uses to drive from but they use Gforce on body so its no issue , obvously this is a huge issue for racing sims that are not trying to be RC car sims.
I have driven cars in real life with a ton of wheel feel and some with 0 feel at all for tires rotation or anything
@@GamerMuscleVideos I remember interesting comment from RaceBeyondMatter (he drives (or used to) real cars too, was that although the feedback from FFB/haptic pedals is very different from real cars, but to his brain it does not matter how he receives the info - either via real G-s or via wheel/pedal vibration - it has the same effect - the information is important, not the channel how he got.
VR works amazing, wrong info my guy!!
I play this in VR...latest update made it easier to launch. I have a 4080s and 7800x3d, performance is very good,smooth and graphicaly great. It's second to AMS2.
You have the gold standard of gaming PCs right now... I'd hope that it runs well! If it can't run on your PC with those specs, there's no hope for the rest of us 😂
@Starmast3rmusic lol, I know. But I'm pretty sure GM has a decently beefy PC as well... I was just replying to him stating the game is not good for VR players. I think if you have a 3070 with a 5800x you'll be fine. I also use Open XR and bypass steamvr.
Free - LFM - AMS2 - AC Evo are the iRacing killer.
Does anyone know why the famous "LADIES AND GENTLEMEN PLEASE START YOUR ENGINES" has been removed from the game? I miss it so much.
the discord is having a fun conversation about FFB today, just before your video dropped. im in agreement. i really like LMU, but it needs a lot of ffb work...we'll see if it gets it. Right now all i hear is, "LMU has ONLY the REAL FFB, NO EFFECTS!" argument. and rF2 players who think its the best ffb in the market already. Although i will say the devs have said they are working on ffb and trying to always make people want to play their sim. so that is positive.
There is no way to explain it to people that "don't get it" they litrally have to experience it and have it shown to them and explained to them and they also have to be a moderately good driver or moderately good at flight sims to really understand the point.
Things are diluted by the fact that a person can rote learn to drive to top E-sports level I mean just look at RC car driving as well , no FFB but people are super fast because they know all the lines and brake points and inputs from sheer practice and internalising physics knowledge ( which a skilled person has to do anyway)
Then things are confused by the "realistic steering " argument which is besides the point and also not a binary situation
Then things are confused by people not knowing how much you drive real cars from Gforces and how much that fundamentally grounds a driver and also lets them drive premptively
Then people also don't understand the abstraction and the degrees to which things can be abstracted and in what ways make sense
lol then people also don't know the relivence of low frequency ffb and high freqeuncy effects
And finally people are also rather confused over the degree to which motion rigs can and cannot work or help.
Then how this relates to low and high end FFB wheels ..
Basically its just way too much on top of also needing to know about racing sims operate and also on top of physics and how that interacts with everything , so basically having had these conversations with ACC fans for years i know its a totally lost cause without as I say sitting down and showing people.
Its VERY MUCH like VR when I'd explain the ins and outs of VR back in the 2000s and people would just not accept it or understand things until you put a VR HMD on there head or ideally one of the more modern HMDS from last 4 years.
@@GamerMuscleVideos Will share this comment around if you don't mind...
One of the other problems in the industry is the language that we use to describe effects, force feedback and haptics in general.
Often times new people coming into the sim market, have certain expectations from the few track events they have done. They get stuck or psychologically anchored to certain terms such as loss of tractions, latency and haptics, but these terms are very colloquial or informal words used within certain communities to loosely explain some very complicated ideas.
One of our gripes here is the term traction loss. What traction loss means to us as engineers is a lower coefficient of friction... Something measurable and calculated by the physics engine. What the community refers to is the motion platform swaying or yawing from side to side, and sometimes on the same pivot rotation (which is not accurate). There are so many motion and FFB concepts out there. Some are gimmicks created to trick the brain and others are more clear representations of what is, and sometimes what is, is not the best.
It's hard to measure preferences or how something "feels" to someone. That's a hard game to play and why here at Sigma we stick to pure motion telemetry as it's the better long-term game to play, as software and physics engine get better over time.
Absolutely 100 % Agreed .. It's the FFB that let's me down every time I fire up LMU. And for this reason alone I don't play LMU very often. Very Disappointing.
Yeah I agree. It's weird because the FFB in rF2 was some of the best ever, and then LMU comes from the same studio but the FFB sucks
reverse ffb and map ffb reset. Anytime you dont feel it, reset the ffb.
FFB is good for me!
Check your settings
Ffb is great
Strange because LMU is known to have the best FFB on the market. May be an issue with your setting / wheel.
I am very surprised when people say that this game is fun to drive. Absolutely shitty force feedback does not allow me to understand what is happening with the car, maybe all people except me still feel g-forces on their body sitting at home, but I do not, and since I do not understand what is happening, it is impossible to talk about fun from driving. I would rather drive unrealistic cars 7 seconds faster than in life than suffer from shitty decisions of developers
Good review!
Spot on dude....I just can't get into LMU now with how the FFB feels.
I clicked the like button only because you said I didn't have to. I'm a rebel like that.
what a lettuce
I LOVE how iRacing looks
Do we have an offline championship mode yet?
Hello fellow tea drinker!
For the neutral story: in the settings you map a button for the neutral then you change a setting that disabled downshifting to neutral when a button is mapped.
I think yours it's a fair review however since most people don't know what a good FFB is this will do just fine. It's not amazing but I think it's good enough ( my opinion of course)
Also I don't understand people in general going at war with you about FFB. People just play what makes you happy. Whether mister FFB GOD HERE is right or wrong don't matter. Hell will be still our favourite tea drinker😂
Ah about VR there is a file from GitHub that makes the whole thing so much Opencomposite or something like that don't remember l. I play LMU exclusively in VR
I hate it .I get no sense of speed no matter what fov I use.
The feel through the wheel feels like nothing. I cant feel the car.
I have a simucube pro.
If someone has a good profile let me know
I think every sim right now is good enough for nice Racing. Every sim has a downside, iracing rf2 ac acc raceroom, every sim has one big flaw, so it depends on taste. I am an iracer since 14 years, but now i drive lmu more than iracing. Maybe this will change when iracing gets its new engine, or ac evo is ready.
The low speed FFB on the LMP2 is where I struggle. Almost non existent. Thought it was my FFB but I think it’s in game.
The main issue of RF2 FFB, many cars (not all) have a very weak low speed FFB, so... AC and AMS2 are now gold standard for FFB.
i agree that you don't get much of the front but the rear is communicated well IMO. exhibit A) bald man oversteered out of every corner for 21 minutes straight, i doubt you would've had this issue with ffb on. also this may be semantics but wouldn't all sims be easier to drive in some way if you turned off FFB? i've done races in iRacing without FFB etc. and just showed me how much of the feedback we get from the sim is just visual, and how much one relies on memorizing the track. not that your complaints about LMU's FFB implementation are unfounded, just trying to add some nuance.
you should definitely test VR yourself
yah aggressive oversteer FFB with no real subtle detail is basically one of the most basic aspects of FFB but its something lots of people latch onto and its a big thing for new drivers as new drivers tend to lose rear easily for a multitude of reasons.
Yes in some way no FFB can make all games easier in specific ways but for different reasons good or bad it depends on the specific things.
@GamerMuscleVideos You did not notice the lack of grass ! I am flabergasted !
That aside though I strongly disagree about the stability of the software, it is still very difficult to get it running appropriately, far from plug and play. In my half day of testing yesterday it crashed 3 times on me, I had to restart it countless time with the game suddenly refusing to accept any keyboard input (and no I don't use anything fancy as hardware or software). Pretty much an early access feeling, which hurts that you have to pay for pricey DLC and an upcoming subscription...
I disagree with the fact that you can't feel understeer, you not only feel it, but you can see on the FFB bar on the HUD, that when you overdrive the bar loses FFB force, as if the car was entering the dynamic friction of the tires. It's subtle, but you can feel it. I understand that in the AC1 you can feel this loss of grip of the front tires better, it even has an enhanced understeer option, which is totally fake. I don't know how much dynamic range a race car's FFB must have, because I've never driven one. But for sure in the LMU it's more subtle than in the AC1. Maybe you're putting too much whisky in your tea!
FFB reset button Still does Nothing for me on my TM wheel
We agree on many things and this is no exception. It was better before this latest update/dlc. I am disappoint.
What bothers me is that they're charging for DLC while still in early access. DLC is supposed to be expansions of an already finished game.
DLC is basicly mostly 3d models, i guess thats for covering the 3d scanning/modelling costs (which are the same regardless of the beta status of the app alone). IMO thats fair - you dont want to be a beta tester on wider range of cars/tracks, just skip those.
What would maybe more sense to lower the subscription cost while in early access - that would be fair (and pro already includes all DLC's).
The problem is that they ran out of funding like half a year ago... They had the choice between trying to sell dlc or just shut the whole thing down. Still feels icky and justifiably puts people off, but they didn't really have much choice.
To be fair to them, the content promised is complete and the DLC is new content that was not promised in the base game.
If there was DLC features for an unfinished game I would agree with you.
I'd agree with this point if the base EA game was $60. If you add the current EA cost and the Season Pass it's basically the price of a full game.
Its money for development and simply staying alive. A good deal.
VR is also good, OpenXR, test it!
What gpu you have ? Any stuttering ? If i use 3090 its enough for hp reverb g2 90hz ? 90fps
@ali09gaming58
I'm on a 4090 and a crystal light.
3090 and G2 Should be fine.
Depends on the rest of the settings.
AA and Postprocessing hits pretty hard, but there's not that much visual difference.
AA 2x or 4x, PP on low
Use the Mbucchia OpenXR tool to enable CAS filtering and set it to your liking, I use 100%.
Unsubscribed. I didn’t even watch the video. I’m just tired of the negativity and toxicity around sim racing.
It was actually all positives; with only one thing he didn't like. Most of the toxicity seems to be coming from the comment section tbh.
@ thank you for a polite response
The only thing I’ll say is that you really like the fake FFB of AC which is ac unique approach.
Also lock to horizon is for the kind of people do order well done steak.
I like my steak well done. Thanks for the tip!
These actually a meme , AC 1 doesn't have "fake" FFB , that's just the additional options that you can turn off and most do , it's also not really unique.
I think the in-car sounds are some of the worst while so much of the rest is really great. It is echoey and dull. It feels like they turned bass down and you’re a listening to the car through an aluminum can.
Yah in care is bad , external are great though and external sounds of other cars when you are in car are great.
@@GamerMuscleVideos Wouldn't it be nice to have cockpit view and an option for external sound. Possibly not that hard to implement based on my lack of knowledge about game programing. There would be a few games that would benefit from it.
Sound is highly underrated in racing games and not enough attention is given to it. Apart from information it give you an emotional feeling.
I'm NOT a subscriber ;-)
I feel dirty for saying this and I might need to bathe after typing this, but I agree with everything you said in this video - both positive and negative. The FFB is a major downer for me. I want so much to love this title, but can't because of the complete lack of feel of what going on with the front axle and the tires.
I wanted to watch the whole video before commenting because I do fully agree with most of what you've said, but I truly don't understand the majority of the negativity towards the force feedback. Primarily with regard to the feel at the limit of the front end. To be clear, I'm no where near as experienced and I recognize that. I am in no way trying to imply i know more than you. I don't. These are just my opinions as a very average sim racer who would like to open a dialogue about it. I have spent hours in just about every major sim and put LMU's ffb behind only AC1, RBR and maybe GTR2. I wasn't able to watch your entire stream but in the 40 minutes or so I saw, you mentioned how bad the ffb feel was during your outlaps. On a couple occasions, you didn't even finish the full out lap. I had to leave during the race when your ffb cut out entirely so I never got to see if you spent time talking about the ffb once your tires were up to temperature. I have to assume you did, but if not, this was a major omission. You're definitely right, there is nothing at all through the wheel when the tires are cold. But from interviews/videos I've seen, plus actually getting to talk to some drivers at the IMSA races I've been to, outlaps on cold slicks really do feel like that. Once the tires come up to temp, the feel through the wheel comes back. I personally feel LMU recreates this better than any other sim. Once there's heat in the tires, I can actually feel the point of understeer through the front which only a few sims do correctly.There's still plenty to be improved upon (namely VR jesus christ), but If nothing else, I feel LMU's intention towards authentically recreating the WEC experience can be commended. I hope they're able to gain some traction and continue to improve the game for years to come because it can only get better from here
For being easy to drive you sure lost the rear of the cars a lot
It was our first race with this update and the FFB was off due to a bug 😂. Was just what I happened to have recorded B roll from. Keep in mind I was also reading chat and talking whast driving as it's from a live stream 😆
7:51 😂🤣😅🥹
Yea it's still bugged for AmD
I agree with the ffb in this game (and others) I can drive this and enjoy it but I know it could be so so much better. We have the hardware but somehow in many games the ffb has gone worse. AMS1 and AC are old games but they got it right🤔 Why is this? I find it weird. We should have God like ffb in all games but it is just numb. You seem to be the only one calling this out when it comes to ffb. Keep doing that. People are missing out great ffb!
Spot on comment on the FFB!
i also hate bouncy horizon.
LMU is KING
.... "it's 💩 guys"
Lock to horizon? Really?
Bro you are too much.
You have to be to be able to make 2 videos a day and then do 10 hour live streams !
God bless the FFB Messiah, the only true and eternally great. May he enlighten us with his wisdom, for he is the only enlightened one who can show us the way to the holy FFB Church.
Blessed be your front end feels brother
I know he went ffb 😂😂😂 I also noticed gt3 cars ffb is shitty compared gtes
A very fair and balanced review, I feel. For me this is unquestionably sim of the year and, considering it's Motorsport Games and the attendant baggage of the past, also the surprise sim of the year too. The development team clearly has a love for the subject matter, as LMU is being meticulously polished all the time and, as you rightly say, the sim in its current form is worthy of a 1.0 release. I still rock a G27 and I don't recognise the FFB issues you outline. Could that possibly be the rFactor heritage of the sim and is it likely that the FFB is more suited to ye olde belt drive? Not sure, anyway I still love my G27 (with the Ricmotech load cell brake mod), and it feels fabulous on all sims, but actually really good on LMU for whatever reason.
Up until this latest update, the performance wasn't all that good, but they've clearly been beavering away at graphic optimisations and it not only runs better, but I think looks brilliant too.
There's just something about this sim that I find so immersive. I kind of regret getting the new AMS2 DLC at full price, because LMU is simply far more enjoyable as an endurance sim, also with that all important, if a bit limited, race save option. I dont' envisage spending much time on AMS2 in the coming days, but we'll see about that I guess.
Anyway congrats on a fine summation of where this one is at. I'm really excited where it's headed.
G27 doesn't really have much dynamic range anyway so aggressive oversteer forces and vibrations will probably be best for that type of wheel.
@@GamerMuscleVideos fair enough. Doesn't feel aggressive in any way though. Very smooth though positive in fact. I actually don't like a lot of FFB and find that the G27 allows me to dial in just right amount, for me anyway. Every year I say I'll go to DD, but if it ain't broke don't fix it is a bit of a motto anyway. Maybe next year (I've been saying that since before Covid, lol).
I also found it much easier to drive when the FFB stopped working.
You know what GamerBastardVideos, I wrote a whole comment about wtf are you talking about with the FFB, the rF2 and LMU FFB are the best in the industry. I just had more time to play for about an hour and you're right, they definitely changed it. What sucks is that this is kind of how it felt when LMU came out, and then they came to their senses and made the FFB feel like rF2. Now they've flipped back to removing a lot of the feel in the steering, pretty disappointing and i hope they don't keep it like this. It's not so bad that it sucks to play LMU, but they really need to bring back that rF2 FFB magic.
Im interested in why you think FFB is bad, when I have heard raving about rf2 FFB in the past. I bet they changed little about the FFB code from rf2, its.just the car physics that are different.
RF2 FFB is massively overated it's just based on people repeating what they have heard they can't actually quantify the specific aspects and what is specifically good or bad.
Which title do I buy to experience the best quality FFB in a circuit racing title? I wasn’t particularly impressed with AMS2 although the general game physics were so bad I found it unplayable anyway (circa. Q4 2022), and it’s clearly not in my beloved iRacing. So which title just for best FFB and ignoring any other attribute?
I'm a controller player, now that most people aren't reading this comment here's why I think FFB sucks in some of the sims. I have a G923 so I know what FFB feels like in most modern sims, but I honestly hate that wheel enough to the point I just went back to controller.
Since I have no FFB I have gotten used to judge the car mostly on visual, and sometimes sound, cues to understand what the car is doing. Most games that you say have bad FFB are the same ones I have a hard time figuring out the car, and vice-versa.
I wonder if it's a case where the tyres, or physics, are vague themselves, therefore giving the FFB nothing to relay back to the driver. It's definitely not the only reason, but I wouldn't say it's impossible. There's the case of AMS2, where the FFB has detail but the way the cars drive would make you think you'd feel nothing. Just food for thought I guess.
So far all tyre/physics changes to LMU have improved the driving and I'm all for that. Non-ABS cars still have a weird tendency to snap under braking like if you pulled the handbrake, then you look at the replay and there's no lock up, in general the inputs look fine, but the car just wipes out somewhat randomly at times. That aspect reminds me of AMS2 or iRacing, but in LMU it's only under braking.
I know it's nitpicking but so far all these physics changes have addressed issues in my nitpick list, so I wonder if it's just a matter of time until all of them are solved and I can truly enjoy this game.
The quality of the tracks and car models is unmatched, the game runs well and looks clean so I really want to like it.
Vr is oké James. 👍
300th like.
The best FFB is SimExperience added effects.
Exactly. I have accuforce wheel v2 and the ffb is absolutely great as the game ffb is only a portion of the total ffb
I had a DD system when you first heard about DD 😅 The FFB is more than fine in LMU. What do you think about rF2's FFB?
100% wrong about FFB... It's the benchmark for all SIM's. Also these are WEC GT3 cars not the other Series GT3 cars.
Completely disagree on the FFB take. Interesting how you talk about the tires grip going away and coming back but then say there is a disconnect between the FFB and what the car is doing. Are both true or are you talking out of both sides of your mouth, I can’t tell.
Because you can visually see the car moving and can understand physics without FFB ....
Thier's three type of race games, free roam, arcade style games like Assetto Corsa Evo, Test Drive Solar Crown and The Crew Motorfest, some are in the middle like Gran Turismo, the Forza games and EA F1, but so I didn't waste $150(AUS) on a TS-PC wheel base (no wheel rim) and waste time building a sim-rig from MDF that looks like the original Daytona USA cabient, we still need smaller developers to release games like LMU. I want to see more smaller developers make games with licensed tie-in's to real motorsport, and with motorsport regulations the way they are now, it never been easier. F4, TCR, GT3 series all use the same regulations around the world, do for these series what ACC did for GT3 racing. Maybe this games won't sell has many, but the developer cost I believe would also be lower, with fewer cars to develop for???, Things have changed a lot since F1 2010.
I drove Evo at simracing expo it's physics are better than ACC , for a start it seems they fixed the suspension issues
Its actually sad to see you shitting on these amazing sims just for views. This is the kind of greed they talk in bible
He's not shitting on it stop being childish. Have a discussion. He makes accurate observations.
Ah yes, Deuteronomy 23:13. I know it well.
Tbh, Forza games, both motorsport 8 and Horizon, have remarkebly good ffb, the dynamic range on the grip or lack of grip in the front is very well done, sure those games has their downsides, but the ffb is not one of them, once you get your ffb settings right (and guides on the internet is NOT right) its a blast to drive in those games!
@@Speedyey ffb in forza games absolutely sucks. What are you on dude?
@Rider07041 ah yes, the old "i dont agree with you so you're wrong"
I guess u think acc has good ffb?
@@Speedyey 🤣
@@Rider07041 noce arguments for your cause. Hows it feeling being such a npc?
It's a damn sight better than ACC and we're in early access.
They've turned EVO into Forza Horizon so I think it's LMU going forward for competitive sim racers like me.
Evo isn't even out. So a pretty wild thing to say.
Turned? AC has always been about driving and a wide selection of cars. It was never aimed at dethroning serious dedicated racing titles like ACC or LMU, and we don't need that. Horizon? Lol. AC itself has a ton of free roam mods, people love it
Tf is this dude yappin about?🤣
@@msum23 the whole in game credits and having to buy your own petrol and blot on parts though... It's just starting to feel like the Project Cars 3 debacle. Hope I'm wrong.
@@namesii1880 in game currency is cringe.
To me iRacing has the best looking graphics and ACC has the worst.
For some reason, people feel it’s the complete opposite.
iRacing looks crisp and fresh with its high details, high quality textures without all these filters and effects. And runs smoothly too. I hope AC EVO will run smoothly from the start.
I really struggle to enjoy the new Le Mans game.
You have to be Trolling
What are you smoking iRacing has the most antique graphics of all actual sims! Even raceroom tried to revamp their engine with new shaders etc.
The best graphics for now are definitely AMS2 and I would say Rennsport. LMU does the best job at rendering tracks.
wat
you look like a clown saying i racing has best graphics lol. after playing lmu and ams2 and i cant go back to iracing cardboard graphics