Regarding the fees for selling cards, I'm actually saying that the expected fee is 15%, although not explicitly announced, just suggested from the Steam fees. I listened again to the video, sorry it sounds like 50.
Kripparrian hello ! Dont you think that custom competitive games will be the free to play try hard ? Let imagine some big fan-sites and discord organize no price tournaments every week and keep records on sites or discord bots for ranking , I think I would more play a custom tournament and not use the ticket system and with that maybe learn more the game and eventually hit high competitive level .. I think that will be a thing if not I will be sure to make one for my community or enter in contact with a popular streamer to make weekly tournaments
Valve has already said that the fee will be 5%. They replaced the 15% steam fee with a 5% steam fee and added a game specific fee for Dota 2, CSGO and TF2 but NOT Artifact.
They are also charging massive fees on market transactions, and you basically get in store credit in return. So a big fuck you for those into card games, but not expensive steam games.
That's exactly what I'm going to do. But I'm sure it will just be a flash in the pan while it's new. There's no way Kripp is going to predominantly stream this garbage.
This game will solely stay alive based on the fact it’s valve and dota. If this was a completely independent ip made by some random company that made the exact same game? Dead on arrival
And because it's a genuinely good game. Like holy shit people, a game costs money to play? Waow. A game like WoW can cost up to $200 a year to play and nobody bats an eye. Artifact might* cost half of that per year and people are all up in arms.
No because Hearthstone came in to a market where there werent tons of card games before. Also you can actually play HS a a f2p unlike Artifact @@SeethinGreenin
Of course it's expensive. It's only why they made the game, to rake in all the cash they could see other companies enjoying, but according to absolute morons on the internet only Blizzard are capable of such atrocities...
But Artifact, well that's different... This game is just going to be handed to all players for free with a complete collection of cards and an infinite supply of arena tickets...
@@r.algamar8821 Alexa played the theme. I had nothing to do with it. WhereIsNoKripperinoInTheThumbnaileriono you're one of the best Kripperinos out there, keep it up with great job!
I was willing to pay the 20$ to buy the Game. But now, since there no way to play the game without constantly paying money, I won't even try it. Sure the HS System has its flaws, too. But for the casual 1-2 games a day its perfect.
@@CT-ju5lc Yeah, I'm not paying $20 for a game that i play very casually for 5-10 mins a day at most. And you can't do much else without constantly spending. For which I have no money, so yeah, why would I bother?
@@CT-ju5lc I don't understand how people can defend such bullshit monetization systems from huge companies. Do you want the game to be more expensive?? "Don't bitch" that the game requires you to continuously pay to actually make progress?
For every 200 players in a Phantom Draft there are $200 spent (1 entry ticket fee per person). 137 of these people will end up with 0,1, or 2 wins and lose their $1. 25 of these people will end up with 3 wins and break even. 16 of these people will end up with 4 wins and get $2, (1 pack). 22 of these people will end up with 5 wins and get $4, (2 packs). That means for each and every person that ends a draft with either 4 or 5 wins … 3 people have lost $1. This also means for each and every person that enters a draft, Valve makes $0.40. Every time, every person that enters a draft, Valve makes forty cents.
As much shit as Hearthstone gets, i never spent a single dollar on that game and still was able to make "expensive" decks like control warrior with full legendary cards and had enough gold to buy all expansions, all earned from just playing Arena. I eventually stopped playing due to all the RNG bullshit but damn hearing this shit just makes me appreciate Hearthstone more.
I did the math. 64 player start a gauntlet: Phantom draft: - 64$ entry fees - 44 Player loose - 8 Player get entry fee back - 5 player get out +2$ (in packs) - 7 player get out +4$ (in packs) ------------ rewards: 56$ of 64$ entry fees Keeper draft: - 128$ entry fees - 44 Loose - 8 get out +2$ (in packs) - 5 get out +4$ (in packs) - 7 get out +6$ (in packs) ------------- rewards: 122$ of 128$ entry fees
@@mig6789 well hearthstone arena also doesn't reward as much as you put in. Somebody is going to lose. Not saying that it is good. Just saying it's not exclusive to valve
Yeah, these rates are nonsense. Since it takes MMR into account, your win rate would be statistically 50%. Which means, 2/3 times you play, you get absolutely nothing back.
Btw, how did you do the math for that? It seems weird that there are 40% more players getting 5 wins compared to 4 wins. Getting 4 wins should be easier, so there should be more people, am I wrong somehow?
Even if Artifact turns out to be really good I feel like a lot of people in these comments would rather play hearthstone and complain about how shit it is as a game for 2 more years instead of spend a bit more money. At least there won’t be as many casual morons as hearthstone though.
so you need to spend money to get the game to then spend money to get packs to make decent decks to then spend money to actually get anything out of playing it. And people say WotC are greedy
But dont the draft modes mean that you dont really need to own many cards. You just need a ticket and you draft a deck and perhaps get the full ticket back.
Buying cards is fine. Even with the $20 price tag it’s fine imo. No constant revenue no updates, reasonable business, i get that; but why the fuck do I HAVE to pay money to even play the game in any serious way? This is ridiculous. It’s like magic if all the game stores were owned directly by wizards, with way worse prizes, and no social aspect, and no tangible monetary value in the cards. Thanks for the video kripp. It kinda sucks you had to make a hit piece on this even though you clearly didn’t want too. Good on you for saying exactly what’s up! Take an upvote
The game itself is 'free', what you're paying for is the cards that come with it. (Also the event tickets which, combined with the cards and packs, is much higher value than the $20) You could argue, however, that if there's a buy-in cost to playing the draft modes that it should - in that case - be free but not include the cards, and sell the starter cards separately, reason being to enable people that just want to play draft to not have to buy cards. That is a fair argument.
@@simonbuysse8559 MTGA is way better than this or hearthstone, playing free i constantly get packs and free uncommons rares and mythics, and gold to participate in drafts where you get to keep all the cards plus prices, in Hearthstone you can in avarage make 350 gold each week just from quests thats like 3.5 packs, in MTGA you get 5 packs each week plus an avarage of 9450 gold thats another 9.4 packs worth of gold
@@simonbuysse8559 In MTGA you get 15 free decks, 1 of them being moderately good, also, i'm f2p in MTGA and crafted a full tier 1 deck with sideboard and i'm close to finishing other 2 tier 1 decks. if doind that for free is worse then paying $20 to start playing and then having to buy packs and tickets with real money, maybe you are smoking.
So after my initial $20 events tickets run out, I will be stuck with nothing to do and nowhere to go. No way to progress my account unless I shell out more money. That's horrible.
Its just like a physical card game, you buy a starter deck, try it out from there and if you enjoy it you dish out the money for more stuff. It isnt for everyone sure, but its hardly new.
@solame10101 It maters because you need a PC and internet connection to play it. You also depend on the provider to actually keep the service up. If the steam/Valve is down or stops existing say goodbye to your investment and as unlikelly that is it is still a risk which you cannot just ignore. When somebody releases physical copies of cards there is cost associated with them. When game is online there is no reason, apart from trying to make more money, to use the same model. ANd yes i do understand they need money to keep the servers up and of course they are a company not a charity, but the costs and gains have to be aligned. To me it seams this game is to expensive for most people and i think it does not need to be that way. Also with physical copies there is a tactile element to it it just feels different and better. Of course online has its own benefits you can play with people you would never be able to otherwise it opens up many oportunities.. but that is mostly thanks to internet. But this is only my opinion. Hopefully they have people who know way more shit than i do who designed this model, but since prices are subject to chance still maybe not and maybe they are just testing the waters. At the end of the day my ruling is that for me the prices are to high and i lost the interest i had and the game seams right in my alley. For somebody else the prices might be just right and that is ok as well. But what i said stands there is obvious difference between copies of cards being digital and actually printed and those differences have to be respected.
I'm a competitive card player with a background in paper MTG, Decipher SWCCG, Hex the Shards of Fate, and Hearthstone. I've played many other lesser known card games over the years and also maintain a library of deck builders, and living card games. IMHO market has been pretty harsh to most card games over the years that dared to compete with the big dogs.I spend $70 when a new Hearthstone expansion comes out and I can usually craft whatever I need past that, it's hard to say if Artifact will be cheaper or more expensive than Hearthstone. One of the largest driving factors behind me leaving MTG was the cost to play and time away from home was to high a price to pay in time, money, and effort. I spent a lot of time playing Hex the Shards of Fate which has the same monetization as Artifact, but it allows players to directly trade and even do COD through mail. It did have the Legendary Rarity and 4 of a kind rules for decks but the highest single was around $25 due to the player base. On average you could pay $7 for a draft which takes ~3 hours to complete ($5 if you purchased packs on the Auction House). I expect the price points for Artifact to be similar. $7 for 3 hours of entertainment seems pretty fair to me. Ultimately, prices will be set by players with supply and demand. If the game isn't fun it will suffer, and it competes with many, many card games. I judge Hearthstone to be a viable FTP game but I'd have to spend between 6-8 hours a day playing it which I simply don't have. Therefore spending $70 to catch up to competitive players seems reasonable to me. MTG, Hex, and Artifact have price points which are fine as long as they are palatable to people, but it's nothing that I haven't seen before. The ticketing system is almost same tix system in MTGO accept that events cost 2 tix in MTGO. Rebuilding my modern deck in MTGO cost ~$200 but that's an eternal format deck that needs minimal updates over the years.Given that Artifact is "fun" and I want to keep playing it my purchase strategy will be to purchase drafts and cap out on a certain number per week. I'll build my constructed collection in that way and learn to play the game. Playing draft mode should ensure a mostly even play experience. Eventually I'll start working on constructed decks when I feel like I know what I'm doing. I'm assuming I'll spend $10 per week until constructed becomes more important then I'll invest in a meta deck while building multiple other T1/T2 meta decks. Kripp mentions that he thinks that the draft mode will be the larger focus of the competitive scene, and although it might be that way for the first 2 months I'd have to say that I don't see it going that way past that. Historically speaking constructed play has been the primary competitive scene for most card games over the years. That's not to say that limited play doesn't have its place but, on average companies make more money on competitive constructed players and the auction house system with the singles sale in game seems to lean to that point. Also there's a higher variance in draft play which means that good players won't always get rewarded. It's for this reason that a lot of card players stay away from cards with random effects as it's best to control as much of the game as you can. One thing I'm worried about is the number of tournament modes available to players. It shouldn't be a problem at launch however if the game starts to lose momentum and the player base wanes then it will splinter the tournament cues and make it hard to get a tournament to launch. That's a concern I'd see a year to 2 years from now however. Hex is going through this now as it's lost popularity and no new card set has been launched. The payment for entry might also be a hindrance to new players that are already invested in other card games. It is likely that future players will get everything we're getting on the 28th for free next year around this time, which is fine because that's just how these sorts of things go. Ultimately, there's a lot of hype for the game and as with most games I hope it does well however there are a fair number of challenges ahead. I'm looking forward to playing it and I hope that it's going to be a fun engaging, strategic experience.
So Artifact has an initial cost, card packs can't be earned ingame, and it has the cancerous steam community market integration for buying and selling cards? This is the worst monetization I've seen in a very long time. F
If the game didnt have an initial cost then they wouldn't be able to give you card packs or anything, you would just download the game and can't play it. And before you say that they should give you stuff, the cards can be sold for actual money so you can't just download and sell everything. And this monetization is literally every paper card game ever.
@@duggerless You can't sell anything for real money. You give Valve real money for artifact, but if you cash out you get steam funbux since you can only sell on the market. If you buy into MTG you don't get WOTC funbux when you sell. Huge difference.
@@duggerless You could still easily fix that issue by giving new players an untradable basic set like the basic set in HS. Of course these cards would need to be more simplistic/weaker but it would at least give new players who are unsure on spending money yet an opportunity to learn the game.
"And this monetization is literally every paper card game ever." Just because things were done one way in the past doesn't mean it's a good way of doing things. Especially since it is digital, not physical.
not even that bad, alot of the "top" games cost $60+. $2.00 a pack with decent value, and resell potential. Just dont get hung up in collecting cards (trading card game not collectible card game) and it will be alright in price . But i agree not lovin the lack of "free cards", too bad tho, the gameplay looks pretty interesting
it has the same model as Solforge had and in that game the "Keepers" draft was the only way to play in order to get new cards provided you were lucky enough to be given good cards every time you could play. It definitely needs a daily reward like Shadowverse and more new player friendly system because it is not a free to play game since you buy it and Solforge which on the contrary was a free to play game is now "dead" mostly because of this unfriendly model.
I thought Solforge had an ingame currency that bought you boosters? I might be wrong though or things might have changed. As soon as I got into HS closed beta I stopped playing it, but for what it was, I really liked it at the time and the way you play and evolve cards was quite unique.
@@2starkiller there was ingame currency you are right . Silver coins were awarded to you by completing the dailies and playing drafts and reaching a certain number of wins. SInce you played it you might remember that in the beginning this system was too lenient and you could make a decent deck not for competitive play but just to enjoy the game. Well things changed drastically when all but the core booster packs in the store could be bought only with gold. I played from the beginning so i had couple of decent decks but new players could not get in because they would solely rely on the awards from the campaign mostly which was a finite deal. I also liked it and i remember Brian Kibler streaming it in the beginning since he was actively involved in the making of the game.
@@EmilClassic Oh right that might have been the case already when I played. I remember getting those packs was quite fast by just playing and there were cards that were at least to my mind really good. But yeah it was just one pack type, thanks for clarifying. It was a fun game to play and I loved how each card had so much art created for them and the unique way it played. Unfortunately it was basically the waiting room for Hearthstone for me. I got into it as I signed for closed beta for Hearthstone and when I got in finally I stopped playing Solforge.
@Agustin RoGo You comment is a complete fallacy. The fact you can't sell HS cards is irrelevant, what matters is the total cost. If you spend $100 on Hearthstone and obviously get nothing back, but spend $300 on Artifact and get 50% back, you still pay $50 more playing Artifact. And 50% back is being generous, if Artifact is anything like MTG or Yugioh your cards may be worth 20% of what they were if you sell after rotation/bans/new set etc, and with Artifact taking 15% cut of your sales price making it even worse. Not to mention the fact that HS IS FREE, many people, including me, have played the game since 2013 without paying a cent. This isn't just some irrelevant trivia you can brush aside, this is a major part of the game. "If you want competitive decks day 1 you must pay in HS" WTF are you talking about, why should a fresh newbie want or require a competitive deck day 1? And you have to pay to get that competitive deck in Artifact as well, HS has the option to not pay while in Artifact paying is mandatory Does HS have problems, absolutely, I've played it since 2013 and criticised it since 2013. But the fact the game has problems with its monetising system doesn't mean another game can't have more, bigger problems with its system. And Artifact is, without doubt, more expensive
seems like artifact doesnt reward your time as much as hearthstone, but it rewards your money more. however it seems like putting time in artifact is more rewarding on a gameplay level
@@frogbaseball i said on a gameplay level, read the rest of the sentence and put the two pieces together. im trying to say that its worth putting time in artifact because not because it gives you stuff but because of the quality of the gameplay and various ways to play that keeps you interested.
Caleb Klusaw i think i agree with this statement. Its more of a rewarding game from a gameplay perspective. More technical and less rng swingy than hearthstone. Hearthstone is easier to get into really though.
thats never how it works out. there will be a best deck and you will have to pay a high price for it or get lucky with packs. and you say its less rpg singy than hearthstone... in kripps video from yesterday a good amount of heroes had 50% chances to activate the ability... that game looks like a massive cash grab and after a while they'll go down with your money. @@Palleto12
KrackerUncle When you watch 5 mins of gameplay i can see how you come to your conclusions. There are i think 4 abilities or cards or something with 50% chance things. Thats about all i can remember. Deployment rng can be controlled by having cards to reposition heroes and creeps. Meta cards are always more valuable no doubt. Its a question of hour much more. Considering the amount of rares isnt huge and you get one per pack. Im thinking its not gonna be $30 a pack.
Thanks for the video. It's a strange feeling knowing you can kind of "cash out" and liquidate your collection when you're done with the game, but not being able to go obviously infinite without some side hustle in card sales coupled with the price of entry is not enticing. You can probably justify the event model or the $20 up front separately, but both together is a bit much. I don't see myself buying this, however I do look forward to watching my favorite card game streamers playing it.
Hearthstone is only cheaper for casual players. Any competitive player is going to have it rough compared to Artifact. Card packs are less expensive in Artifact, the highest raritiy is "rare" and you can buy singles.
The Vannarch just play warlock or hunter if you want competitive on a budget. Warlock will probably always have a viable aggro/ zoo deck while hunter’s best cards bar deathstalker rexxar virtually never cost more than rare.
@@whatisthis-uw9ok Maybe for buying every single card in game game. HS is cheaper by a mile if you are fine with just owning a couple of good decks instead of every possible one. Not even talking about people who are fine with playing the game for free and working a on new pack every couple of days. If you do you daily quest every day in HS you acutally can get a crazy amount of cards of the newest expansion for free. So nah artifact is much much more expensive unless you want to own every last card.
How expensive is Artifact? Too expensive to bother. Unless this game is vastly superior to all the rest of its competition you can easily find wallet friendly free to play that are already great. CCG competition is abundant. If a game wants to gouge you....skip it.
One important thing you missed is that your cards will always have value. If I want a deck, I can buy the cards for that deck. If I then want to get a different deck, I can sell those cards and fund that other deck With something like Hearthstone, to dust cards in that manner would lose 75% of the value of those cards instantly. With Artifact, it's pretty reasonable to be able to recover almost all of the value you put in to be used on something different, be it a different deck, tickets, or heck any game on steam. That's pretty great.
A problem with the steam marketplace is there is a limit to 200 sales per year unless you give them additional information(Proof of ID, etc.) So this could be an issue later in the road.
If you look at TF2 or CS:GO for reference on how market items are going to be handled, it would make sense that when you get 12 items for $2 instead of 1 item for $2.50, it logically makes sense that VERY quickly the value of cards is going to devalue from the total card price of $2 per pack to something much less than that. Especially if the cards from the packs that come with the base game are marketable. There will very quickly be an oversaturation of people wanting to sell the very common cards. I wouldn't be surprised to see the total cost of the cards in each pack to typically be less than .75 cents
not even that bad, alot of the "top" games cost $60+ so its gonna be alright.$2.00 a pack with decent value, and resell potential. Just dont get hung up in collecting cards and it will be alright in price
Asking for 20 dollars just to try out the game is gonna cut the potential playerbase more than in half. Pretty bad move but we'll see. If a game doesn't want a f2p playerbase that is fine I guess but you will loose out on a decent chunk of community feedback and interaction since in my opinion people who work hard for a collection tend to stay longer than people that just buy stuff and move on to the next thing when they get bored after 2 weeks.
I think artifact is kinda intended to be like that? Maybe valve could care less about playerbase since it was build to be very competitive. Maybe it will not attract casual but I could confirm many pros will try it out.
Well the casual playerbase is actually the one that spends way more on a game statistically. Because they don't have much time and want to cut corners by spending money or they just have loads because they are whales. That is the playerbase every game developer is after so I would be suprised if Artifact is gonna be a success financially.
@@KartoffelKonig Valve has been literally drowning in money for years now. They care about their games and not just money. The whole concept of artifact is to create a great competitive game that is actually fair for the players spending their money. Why do you think they still haven't made half life 3? They could make the shittiest, most low effort fps game and call it half life 3 and they would make billions but they don't want to make it until they figure out how to create a new truly ground breaking game like half life 2 was. Valve is still a private corporation which means they don't have any stock holders to answer to. It's ridiculous people are calling artifact a cash grab when valve is literally the only major gaming company left that cares about the games and not just money.
I have not called Artifact a cashgrab. I just said that this is the wrong price model for a digital cardgame to be sucessful because most casual players don't want to pay something just to try it out especially in cardgames that is already by design build with lootboxes aka cardpacks at every corner.
Will the sets rotate from the artifact store? In 5 years will cards from the first set only be available from the marketplace? So, buying up good cards early will be like buying magic cards back in 1994?
The game looks really interesting. It also looks really expensive. I'd like to play it, but unless the cost to play comes down by a third or so I'm not likely to do so.
These card games are the only games I find myself always playing. I play Hearthstone, Shadowverse and MTG Arena. They're free to play and I only have to put in real money if I want to. I can f2p on all 3 and enjoy them thoroughly. I wish Artifact was the same
Maybe they should've changed the entry fee to like x amount of cards? You would get them back if you win at least 3 times. The advantage of this would be that these cards are (if lost) eliminated from the market, thus preventing inflation? Just an idea.
@@-Kidzin Physical copies are nice. But physical cards also lack alot special effects found in video games, I haven't seen a card game augmented with AR yet, and i don't want to use phones for games in any regard. And pretty much most EULA's for games state that you don't own the game instead license it's use and such. That's just part of digital media.
Artifact sounded interesting to me right up until I heard about the pricing structure. The name Artifact makes sense because this game is going to get fucking buried.
I think the big issue right now in evaluating cost is the lack of information. I mean we have no idea how the market is going to work or how Valve will manipulate card distribution in packs or even the size of the player base. These are all things that will greatly dictate prices going forward. It's too complicated for anyone to make a prediction about price. Now if the only concern or scope is base price of the game, event ticket price, and pack price then there we can argue price points. I myself am an old school magic player so the stated business model doesn't bother me to much. And since I can't sink endless hours into the game f2p isn't really f2p for me seeing as I have to sink money into it anyways the get anything out of f2p.
I believe it was staited there will be free tournaments where you can earn cards, and if I also remember correctly there are game modes where you get access to every card free.
It wont have free content because It would mess up the game's Marketplace. If you could sell the cards you get for free you would be able to make "free money" in your Steam account.
@@jakobpaulsson3827 i dont get It. Why everyone is complaining. You can get free cards in HS but is Impossible to play reliable without buying packs. Its the same Shit.
@@atlas6538 why? you get more value out of packs, you get at least 1 rare a pack which is the highest rarity, and you can buy individual cards on the market.
@@MrPtakopisk true, im talking about if you pay for packs for each game , or use the in game economy system. in a vacuum, hs has infinite more value of artifact because technically you can get all the cards for free.
@@MrPtakopisk the problem is making tier 1 decks because they will so god damn expensive other than that you can just keep selling your cards and creating a new deck. Still valve did mention that they will ensure cards aren't overly expensive in the market and a rare card is in every packs so the rare cards will be pretty common.
if there are cards that are essential necessary then they will be higher as a pack costs. it has a market so it will be like a real card game like magic.
@@norsehorse84 Enabling the ability for players to trade cards is a better model than that of hearthstone. You have to spend less money and time to build the decks you want. Hearthstone has succeeded greatly in creating an illusion of value.
The info Kripp provides is relatively well hidden - instead of being in the game description on the store page, it's in the "News" section of the Community Hub. There are bound to be some players who, without visiting the Community Hub or watching TH-cam vids, will buy that game, believing that all they have to pay is $20. The lucky ones will find out about additional payments within the 2 hour time window and get their money back. The rest will try to sue Valve for trying to "mislead the consumers, by concealment of important information". After that, Valve would panic and introduce a way to earn cards in game. However, those people who got their refund and left will probably not return, as, unlike in "No Man's Sky", there seems to be nothing unique enough or compelling enough in the game for them to bother. Some of these players will go to "Yu-gi-oh: Legacy of the Duelist" or "Faeria". Others will start playing "MTG:A"
What Valve has done is essentially bring the paper TCG economy to the digital space. It works quite well for Magic, Pokemon, YuGiOh, and other games, but when you play those games, you have choice of where to play, who you want to buy/trade with, what store you want to support. Here, we only have one choice (aside from events, since you can make custom events): Valve. It would be super nice if we could play a free mode, grind out some in-game currency, and get packs or event tickets for free, but that would go against this "paper economy" they've made. On the plus side, I'd say it's likely to be much safer to spend event tickets in Artifact than it would be to buy entry into something like FNM. The likely large player base means that if you lose 1 or 2 matches, you'll have a much higher chance to be matched against players who don't have netdecks, while at an in-store event, you probably know exactly what deck every player has, and in my experience it's about 10-20% who are not net decking (2-3 matches if you're lucky).
As a longtime Mtg player I guess it's no suprise that I'm very excited over this business model. One of the many reasons I don't play hearthstone is because you can't effectively construct the decks you actually want to play through the random acquisition of cards. If you have infinite time on your hands to grind, the hearthstone model might be better but in reality you get more content for the money you put in with this model.
Basically its a collecting game that you buy but cant really collect anything unless you pay more money constantly yet cant really collect anything anyway quz you need to sell them to pay little less Oh ok I am out
yeah ik well its a trading card game not a ccg like hearthstone. And when you sell a card you lose %15 to steam. When i dust a card in hearthstone blizzard takes %75 of its value. Pretty basic math.
+Palleto Katelo (Palleto) nono. youose a lot more than 15% you open a 2 dollar pack a d get 10 cards worth 3 cents and then from the 3 cents you pay 2cent for valve. you sold 30cents worth of cards that the buyer pays you get 10cent valve gets 20cent and you payed 200ce ts for the pack to start this process XD
Gizdalord You see that reall depends on the value of things. Generally rarer and meta defining cards will be higher valued. Every pack gets a rare. Really depends on what the peak value us vs the low point. If cards will be 3cents or something for the most part than sure yea your right. But i'm doubtful most cards will be that cheap.
@@Palleto12 Actually that's pretty accurate compared to physical TCGs. In Magic, Yugioh, Pokemon etc the pack filler is worth literally nothing, as in nobody will buy it because everyone has 20 copies already, pack filler rares might cost 50¢ or a couple dollars or something, and only the really strong rares have any real value. How expensive these op cards are depends on how rare Valve decides to make them, but if the rarities are similar to e.g. Yugioh they might cost dozens or even hundreds of dollars. The beauty of HS's crafting system is that you can dust whatever card and always get the sane value, it doesn't matter if you dust a pack filler legendary or the best meta legendary, you always get 1/4 of the price of a new legendary
@@Palleto12 blizzard takes 0% of its value quz its not real money and you probably got it from some free daily quest for 0$ anyway and hearthstone is trash i am not a fan of hearthstone nor i am a fan of this game either... and you cant "trade" something if no one is collecting which means some are collecting it which means its a collecting game after all :)
In what age do we live in? The Information Age. Digitizing everything makes sense. We have digital money. 30 years ago that would make no sense at all.
so... you rather pay twice the price for cheap cardboard instead and deal with card warping (especially in mtg these days, the card stock is horrible), card damage, buying card sleeves to protect it, having a place to put the cards, and carrying around a deckbox(es) and binders when you want to play/trade?
For $50 you get: Acces to the game, 2 starter decks, 10 packs and 5 keeper drafts. That's much more than what you get for $50 in hearthstone (keep in mind each keeper draft gives you 60 cards of your choosing + rewards)
But then the game doesn't have ranked, ingame currency neither ingame rewards and most of the game modes are behind a paywall. So, just don't buy the game if you don't pretend to put more money than that 20€. Is much, much more expensive than HS or Magic Arena.
@@alejandroagudosanchez5183 They can't give rewars for free, or else the market value would frop off and noone would buy a single pack. You don't pay $20 for the game, you pay that for the cards. The same way you can't "buy" magic, you can only buy cards. And any time you can get rewards, you need to pay. But there's an in-game torunament system where you can play free tourneys from day 1 so I don't see the problem with events being paid only
Is irrelevant if no-one buys a single pack (whales will always buy thousand of packs no matter what), packs are the main reward in €$€ game modes so there is always going to be more packs and more cards in circulation. So free rewards or not, packs are going to devalue pretty fast. 2weeks, maybe 6, depends of the momentum of the game. And another factor, if draft is the principal game-mode, then the packs would de-value even faster.
@@inuzukasama9080 true that,havent payed anything,still haveing fun playing HS,even managed to build 2 fun tier one decks over 4 months Atrifact just seems to need far too much money to actually get anywhere with
@Cunt Goblin Aye, lemme play memeAfact and sink 20 dollars, than 100 dollars, than an extra 10 dollars just to play competitive only to get POWER CREEPED 2 expansions later!
What HS gives you for free yearly just playing casually: 52 classic packs from Tawern brawls ~10 packs from each expansion (plus free legendary from each) - 30 per year ~60 gold from daily quests - 21 900 gold per year = 219 packs some other packs I do not count (choose your champion etc.) But minimalistic count is ~300 packs. This will cost $600 in Artifact. And I do not know, how will Artifact fight staleness in meta - will they just create new expansions (meaning more and more cards to buy for real money)?
This sounds a little too money hungry for me. I've had to completely cut myself off from spending money on HS, and it feels like that's not an option in Artifact. Sounds great for those who have money to spend tho!
Unlike Hearthstone, Artifact doesn't pretend to be something it's not. Competitive HS costs a shit ton of money. Artifact has more options to alleviate the cost in competitive.
The thing with Artifact is that they can't really give free cards or the market values would drop tremedously and they'd never a pack. I'll probably only pay a top of 5 bucks a month for keepers drafts and then just casual and free toruneys, also trying out budget decks which never fail to exist in these types of games. It'll still be cheaper than buying each hearthstone expansion every year (and more fun!)
Artifact might actually be cheaper than your average HS experience, the access is 17.95€, you get a decent bundle for the price and you will probably be able to buy low power level cards for dirty cheap. What's awful is that for how low it might costs if you don't keep paying you don't make any progress, and cards power level is all over the place so opening packs is literally gambling.
Hearthstone is free experinace. When you start out you are given like 5-6 packs. A free death knight. Dungeon run. Monster hunt. 20 packs for climbing from 50-25 which should be pretty easy (you will be matched with other new players) guaranteed legendary on first 10 pack of each set. A free arena run. You are given enough free stuff to make a tier1/2 deck so don't bullshit yourself, artifact is certainly not cheaper to try out. And as for starter pack there is welcome bundle, basically equivalent of buying artifact base game just to try it but it's $5
Too many variables to tell now which games will end up being cheaper to play to a decent level without grinding ladder, when artifact will be on regime it will be easier to compare to HS and other games economy. My point was that in HS if you don't spend more money you can still play a couple of arena games or get a new card you didn't have, in Artifact if you don't put money in the system you are always stuck with what you have.
@@MrVietga That was 5 years ago. We don't live in 2013, expectation and standards have gone up a lot. Nowadays that kind of slow start don't cut it. The card games genre isn't lacking either. There are many games that are showering you with free content just to stand a chance against hs.
The average player only buys the welcome bundle and, in the past, the adventures which also gave you single player content. The average semi-competitive player chains enough arenas and spends his gold/dust efficiently enough to have multiple competitive decks for free. The average /r/hearthstone player plays 4 hours a week which isn't even enough to complete the dailies, blows hundreds on the game then, constantly bitches about not having a full collection of pretty gifs he'll never use in an actual deck, in a game he barely plays.
I think people concede a lot in tavern, because it is a limited time and often it is boring or annoying. I play a lot in Casual and it doesn't happen that often in there.
After watching the video, it is very clear: "We are here to steal your last coins" A game, which is said to be "free" (hearthstone, ESO, MTG Arena, etc.) must have given more FREE things than this one where you already have to start paying on the first day. Nothing against Kripp, but the game is as mercenary as the others that cost nothing, the game is only more explicit in saying this. What I can say is this: In less than one year the game will become free ...
If the game doesn't do well the cards wont sell on steam, so they'll have to drop the price. It seems better to wait, but yeah I don't see this game doing that well after 6 months or so. People don't like complexity and thinking too hard. When it comes out there will be a lot of people watching, including me, but maybe not buying.
@@Rob-uv6fb people dont like complexity but games like dota which are way more complex than artifact still has one of the biggest and the most loyal playerbase. Cant use complexity as an argument cos people like that
@@stallon720 My guess is that more HS players will be playing/trying artifact than dota players and that HS players (mostly casuals) are less likely to enjoy complex games. I just cant see dota players having any interest in a card game, but we'll see.
Seems like a fair point, but then again there are a lot of MOBA players that are also card players. They both share an out of game building aspect. Card games allow you to build your deck whereas MOBA's encourage itemization build orders, talent points etc.... I'm curious to see how much you can get out of the game without spending more than the initial $20 for entry although I'd be ok with draft formats that allow you to keep your cards.
im never playing this game. i dont want to come in later than everyone else, be out skilled and then need to put money in it. I am not going to give this game an ounce of support, so hopefully in the future games dont go this route.
Lmao what a joke xD i'll stick with eternal thank you very much. But seriously though you pay 20$ to play the game then pay more to get better cards p2w in a free card game i can understand but not in a paid game, artifact will die very fast it's even greedier than heartstone! xD Long story short don't bother people don't get scammed!
8:39 oh kripp, if only you knew the TF2 trading experience. It'll take some time for traders to set in, but eventually you'll be able to get that money back to your account
Lord Jaraxxus Nyet comrade, those normal games are pay to play aka you pay once and then you can play. Not need to pay money so you can pay more money lol
I'm pretty sure Artifact's business model is going to fail spectacularly. $20 to start is completely reasonable, but there's going to be thousands of players up-front that will never try the game because of that initial cost. That's not really the issue though. The redditors have done their homework, and it likely costs ~$400 to obtain a complete set. That's a fact that Kripp can't state because it would turn too many people off. I started Hearthstone as free-to-play, but I'm in my mid-30s with disposable income. I spend $50 on the set pre-orders, and between that and playing 5-6 days/week for an hour or less, I have no problem obtaining most, if not all, Tier 1 and Tier 2 legendaries and epics through packs and crafting in the course of 3-4 months. Kripp just buys 400 packs (even more these days) which gives about a full set, which is $500. So my playing of the game, my regular enjoyment, is actually worth hundreds of dollars in cards in Hearthstone. A full set of Artifact will cost me almost three years of my Hearthstone budget. I know that people will argue that going for a full set isn't how Artifact is supposed to work. I've played Magic before so I get it all too well. I'm not a completionist with Hearthstone either. It's just nice to have the cards to try off-meta decks, fun decks, or when an underpowered card fits the meta (Raid Leader in 2018?!). It's fun to save up dust for a legendary that I want to experiment with, say Malygos or Genn, which unlock new archetypes. I think paying $2 for a specific card will actually ruin the experience for a lot of people. You're going to feel dissatisfied. I think Artifact is missing out on the psychological rewards of playing Hearthstone. You might call me an idiot for preferring to play a month's worth of quests to save up enough gold for enough arena packs for enough dust for a single legendary when I could pay $2 for it instead. But I like experimenting with new decks each day to complete my quests. I don't feel pressured to just play the meta net-deck. But I might if 1) I paid actual money for that meta net-deck and 2) I don't have a lot of extra cards other than the meta net-deck that I paid for. The meta is going to go stale super fast in Artifact without an aggressive expansion schedule which means even more money to shell out. And if my free-time playing the game isn't getting me anything, then I definitely don't want to spend my free time fiddling around with the marketplace all the time selling my excess collection. Basically, this is going to be the next HEX: Shards of Fate, not the next Hearthstone. BUT... The great part about Artifact though is that it is a digital card game. So when their business model fails they can keep the cool game they've designed and convert the business model to free to play. I'll check it out then.
Interesting : i immediately thought of HEX: shards of fate during the video, all i remember from the game is trying gauntlet once or twice before becoming basically a trader : constantly buying cards below their value and selling them back at full price, because that was the best way to grind...
The initial cost may be higher but we will have to see what the cost over time will be like. Valve won't have as much of a need to keep pushing out new power creepy crap every couple of months because releasing new cards won't be their only source of income.
If there is no investment on your time o feel of progression, I feel bad for the people that burn 20 bucks out the gate. It will basically all be tavern brawl as you explained. If you start losing just back out cause it just doesn't matter. MTGA has been awesome so far, I can build plenty of decks without dumping lots of money, which actually makes me spend some money.
Looks like buying cigarettes when you are a nicotine accro though. Also I am afraid about the possible market prices crazyness if people can choose the prices.
Just look at MTG, 99% of the cards cost less than 0.09€, which destroys de value of packs. And then the meta cards, the first 10-20 more rare, powerfull cards, cost from 5 to 50€ each one.
@@alejandroagudosanchez5183 But neither cs go and dota 2 has a meta consisting of the 1% of all the game's materials at the player's disposal. Dota 2 has an enormous pool of viable heroes that can easily adapt towards a multitude of situations. CS GO on the other hand, has different tiers of skins, which conditions a wide range of cosmetics that can be bought and you may choose one of them or not, depending on your current available money.
It will be on life support because sweaty steam fanboys. But it will never beat games like gwent. And it will never come close to to HS. That's mtg and yu gui oh monetization on a new online game. And that's bullshit.
@@SkyllerSY You're just an delusional fool if you think artifact is worse than this piece of hot garbage named Gwent homecoming. Look at this simple fact all gwent streamers flee like rats from this joke of a game.
Events are kinda bad, because if they do eventually achieve 50% win rate, here is the breakdown 0-2: 25% 1-2: 25% 2-2: 18.75% 3-2: 12.5% 4-2: 7.8125% 5-1: 7.8125% 5-0: 3.125% Total rewards: Phantom/Constructed, .3125 ticket, 0.296875 pack, or 1 ticket = .4318 pack. Keeper, .625 ticket, .609375 pack, or 1 ticket = .4431 pack Given tickets are $0.99 each, each pack "costs" a bit over $2, taken the "better" rate keeper draft, for example, it would be $2.23 This is more expensive than buying the packs at $1.99 So the only reason you should play events is.... if you can do better than 50% which is supposedly not possible long term(?) due to mmr. So events is literally jumping through hoops to get LESS. So yeah, they better update the ratio, because this is pure stupidity.
![[Hearthstone] Baku’s Revival of Hadronox](/img/n.gif)
Regarding the fees for selling cards, I'm actually saying that the expected fee is 15%, although not explicitly announced, just suggested from the Steam fees. I listened again to the video, sorry it sounds like 50.
yep, 15% is the standard. it will look like this (unless they make one specifically for the game - unlikely) steamcommunity.com/market/
Kripparrian hello ! Dont you think that custom competitive games will be the free to play try hard ? Let imagine some big fan-sites and discord organize no price tournaments every week and keep records on sites or discord bots for ranking , I think I would more play a custom tournament and not use the ticket system and with that maybe learn more the game and eventually hit high competitive level .. I think that will be a thing if not I will be sure to make one for my community or enter in contact with a popular streamer to make weekly tournaments
Valve has already said that the fee will be 5%. They replaced the 15% steam fee with a 5% steam fee and added a game specific fee for Dota 2, CSGO and TF2 but NOT Artifact.
Thank-you for clarifying
It's usually 10% going to Steam and 5% goes to the "game devs/side"
They just made a game with a paper tcg business model but they don't have to spend anything on printing or distribution. Clever.
they just have to pay for servers, which are fre... oh wait
They are also charging massive fees on market transactions, and you basically get in store credit in return. So a big fuck you for those into card games, but not expensive steam games.
Still way cheaper than making and distributing cards. Not to mention they already have servers so that's even cheaper for them.
@@justingenovese9538 "massive fees"
15 percent bro. If a card costs 5 bucks it's 75 cents extra.
Justin Genovese Well put by someone who has no idea how the steam marketplace actually works.
Is this monetisation model an off season april fools joke?
Do you guys not have credit cards?
@@SoKewlify hah good one
@@SoKewlify no, but I have a phone.
@@KrackerUncle Then you're gonna love this new upcoming Blizzard game
@@panosxatz4600 whats it about? I always wanted to have a diablo-esque game on my phone.
0:04 watch artifact
15:33 skip artifact
That's exactly what I'm going to do. But I'm sure it will just be a flash in the pan while it's new. There's no way Kripp is going to predominantly stream this garbage.
@@cardsharpHS what garbage?
+Horia - It's obvious. The game. Artifact. It's hot garbage.
@@cardsharpHS what garbage?
@@cardsharpHS Someone sounds triggered
This game will solely stay alive based on the fact it’s valve and dota. If this was a completely independent ip made by some random company that made the exact same game? Dead on arrival
Oh also valve pouring a shit ton of money into tournaments
And because it's a genuinely good game. Like holy shit people, a game costs money to play? Waow. A game like WoW can cost up to $200 a year to play and nobody bats an eye. Artifact might* cost half of that per year and people are all up in arms.
Yes, but that is because Valve literally don't give a fuck about advertising this game at all, for some reason.
Yeah just like hearthstone. If it wasnt for blizzard ip and characters that game would be DoA too.
No because Hearthstone came in to a market where there werent tons of card games before. Also you can actually play HS a a f2p unlike Artifact @@SeethinGreenin
Turns out Artifact is pretty expensive
For a game that no one expects to work you think they would at least make it free to start.
Gee, what a surprise. The subreddit told me it was going to be so cheap, though!
@@777Sir no way. Pretty sure subreddits been saying it's expensive since very early on
Of course it's expensive. It's only why they made the game, to rake in all the cash they could see other companies enjoying, but according to absolute morons on the internet only Blizzard are capable of such atrocities...
But Artifact, well that's different... This game is just going to be handed to all players for free with a complete collection of cards and an infinite supply of arena tickets...
Nowhere, just like where my career is going at this pace
This is actually very sad.
*Alexa plays Hearthstone theme in the distance*
@@jackieririan hearthstone theme is happy, ure happy with his/her career?
Stay strong my dude
@@r.algamar8821 Alexa played the theme. I had nothing to do with it.
WhereIsNoKripperinoInTheThumbnaileriono you're one of the best Kripperinos out there, keep it up with great job!
@@jackieririan chill bro kiddin, go make some goood custom card
I was willing to pay the 20$ to buy the Game. But now, since there no way to play the game without constantly paying money, I won't even try it. Sure the HS System has its flaws, too. But for the casual 1-2 games a day its perfect.
Casual constructed mode is free. The ticket modes give rewards so dont bitch
@@CT-ju5lc free = 20$ hmmm
@@CT-ju5lc Yeah, I'm not paying $20 for a game that i play very casually for 5-10 mins a day at most. And you can't do much else without constantly spending. For which I have no money, so yeah, why would I bother?
@@CT-ju5lc I don't understand how people can defend such bullshit monetization systems from huge companies. Do you want the game to be more expensive?? "Don't bitch" that the game requires you to continuously pay to actually make progress?
Magic The Gathering : Arena best model for card acquisition for free players imo. I nearly have 2 tier 1 decks complete after only a month or so.
You put kripp in krippling depression.
wait 20 dollars for a game which u have to buy packs also......was hyped about the game but i no longer am
@Cunt Goblin and good meta rares like Axe, Drow - up to 30 $
@@dlr5668 nope, they will control the marketplace so no deck or card reaches such price
@Cunt Goblin you will still have to pay to get cards...
@@ОлександрЛуговий-л7ь Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
@@ОлександрЛуговий-л7ь наивный
For every 200 players in a Phantom Draft there are $200 spent (1 entry ticket fee per person).
137 of these people will end up with 0,1, or 2 wins and lose their $1.
25 of these people will end up with 3 wins and break even.
16 of these people will end up with 4 wins and get $2, (1 pack).
22 of these people will end up with 5 wins and get $4, (2 packs).
That means for each and every person that ends a draft with either 4 or 5 wins … 3 people have lost $1.
This also means for each and every person that enters a draft, Valve makes $0.40. Every time, every person that enters a draft, Valve makes forty cents.
That piece of hair in Kripps mustache that comes over his lip absolutely triggers me
You'd get used to it with the time, like I did haha
bro i was going to mention it
It looks so uncomfortable
GREAT. NOW I CAN'T UN-SEE IT.
I miss seeing kripp play mmos.
As much shit as Hearthstone gets, i never spent a single dollar on that game and still was able to make "expensive" decks like control warrior with full legendary cards and had enough gold to buy all expansions, all earned from just playing Arena. I eventually stopped playing due to all the RNG bullshit but damn hearing this shit just makes me appreciate Hearthstone more.
I did the math. 64 player start a gauntlet:
Phantom draft:
- 64$ entry fees
- 44 Player loose
- 8 Player get entry fee back
- 5 player get out +2$ (in packs)
- 7 player get out +4$ (in packs) ------------ rewards: 56$ of 64$ entry fees
Keeper draft:
- 128$ entry fees
- 44 Loose
- 8 get out +2$ (in packs)
- 5 get out +4$ (in packs)
- 7 get out +6$ (in packs) ------------- rewards: 122$ of 128$ entry fees
The house always wins. This game is literally a casino
@@mig6789 well hearthstone arena also doesn't reward as much as you put in. Somebody is going to lose. Not saying that it is good. Just saying it's not exclusive to valve
@@cat4laugh But you can play HS arena without paying real money.
Yeah, these rates are nonsense. Since it takes MMR into account, your win rate would be statistically 50%. Which means, 2/3 times you play, you get absolutely nothing back.
Btw, how did you do the math for that? It seems weird that there are 40% more players getting 5 wins compared to 4 wins. Getting 4 wins should be easier, so there should be more people, am I wrong somehow?
Dont you guys have money?
Even if Artifact turns out to be really good I feel like a lot of people in these comments would rather play hearthstone and complain about how shit it is as a game for 2 more years instead of spend a bit more money. At least there won’t be as many casual morons as hearthstone though.
This is the best one yet.
I have a *pHoNe* :v
no :(
hahahahaha me having money, funny
so you need to spend money to get the game to then spend money to get packs to make decent decks to then spend money to actually get anything out of playing it. And people say WotC are greedy
Thats how it works...unfortunately
At least wizards gives you a piece of cardboard you can resell FOR REAL MONEY!
But dont the draft modes mean that you dont really need to own many cards. You just need a ticket and you draft a deck and perhaps get the full ticket back.
@Xaxa xa If you buy singles you can easily build a deck for like $50.
wotc's trying to kill to kill off the printed, physical version of the game
Buying cards is fine. Even with the $20 price tag it’s fine imo. No constant revenue no updates, reasonable business, i get that; but why the fuck do I HAVE to pay money to even play the game in any serious way? This is ridiculous. It’s like magic if all the game stores were owned directly by wizards, with way worse prizes, and no social aspect, and no tangible monetary value in the cards. Thanks for the video kripp. It kinda sucks you had to make a hit piece on this even though you clearly didn’t want too. Good on you for saying exactly what’s up! Take an upvote
How expensive is
B A N A N A B R E A D ?
BANANABREAD prices going UP!!! Is bananabread PAY TO EAT now?
Imagine buying a game where you have to spend additional money to play it
Its like cable TV where you have to spend additional money to watch pay per view even though you spend so much a month on it already
People did it for WoW.
Like most games these days you mean
@@jvy012896 Cable is also 60% commercials LUL There's a reason cable is falling off a cliff as older generations die. Internet is all that is needed.
The game itself is 'free', what you're paying for is the cards that come with it. (Also the event tickets which, combined with the cards and packs, is much higher value than the $20)
You could argue, however, that if there's a buy-in cost to playing the draft modes that it should - in that case - be free but not include the cards, and sell the starter cards separately, reason being to enable people that just want to play draft to not have to buy cards. That is a fair argument.
Basically just play MTGA instead, got it.
MTGA is even worse, what are you smoking
@@simonbuysse8559 MTGA is way better than this or hearthstone, playing free i constantly get packs and free uncommons rares and mythics, and gold to participate in drafts where you get to keep all the cards plus prices, in Hearthstone you can in avarage make 350 gold each week just from quests thats like 3.5 packs, in MTGA you get 5 packs each week plus an avarage of 9450 gold thats another 9.4 packs worth of gold
@@simonbuysse8559 In MTGA you get 15 free decks, 1 of them being moderately good, also, i'm f2p in MTGA and crafted a full tier 1 deck with sideboard and i'm close to finishing other 2 tier 1 decks. if doind that for free is worse then paying $20 to start playing and then having to buy packs and tickets with real money, maybe you are smoking.
@@MerolLord MTGA is way worse for arena only (compared to HS). Constructed you may be right.
1000 times better. both as gameplay or as businnes model
So after my initial $20 events tickets run out, I will be stuck with nothing to do and nowhere to go. No way to progress my account unless I shell out more money. That's horrible.
Well I mean tickets are only $1 each... Playing 5 drafts a week isn't bad since you may also get back some tickets.
Its just like a physical card game, you buy a starter deck, try it out from there and if you enjoy it you dish out the money for more stuff. It isnt for everyone sure, but its hardly new.
@solame10101
Yea except in physical game you actually get physical copies of cards... here you do not.
@@gametips8339
Thanks for the observation, want to point out how it matters or are you just going to state the obvious?
@solame10101
It maters because you need a PC and internet connection to play it. You also depend on the provider to actually keep the service up. If the steam/Valve is down or stops existing say goodbye to your investment and as unlikelly that is it is still a risk which you cannot just ignore.
When somebody releases physical copies of cards there is cost associated with them. When game is online there is no reason, apart from trying to make more money, to use the same model.
ANd yes i do understand they need money to keep the servers up and of course they are a company not a charity, but the costs and gains have to be aligned. To me it seams this game is to expensive for most people and i think it does not need to be that way.
Also with physical copies there is a tactile element to it it just feels different and better. Of course online has its own benefits you can play with people you would never be able to otherwise it opens up many oportunities.. but that is mostly thanks to internet.
But this is only my opinion. Hopefully they have people who know way more shit than i do who designed this model, but since prices are subject to chance still maybe not and maybe they are just testing the waters.
At the end of the day my ruling is that for me the prices are to high and i lost the interest i had and the game seams right in my alley.
For somebody else the prices might be just right and that is ok as well.
But what i said stands there is obvious difference between copies of cards being digital and actually printed and those differences have to be respected.
I'm a competitive card player with a background in paper MTG, Decipher SWCCG, Hex the Shards of Fate, and Hearthstone. I've played many other lesser known card games over the years and also maintain a library of deck builders, and living card games. IMHO market has been pretty harsh to most card games over the years that dared to compete with the big dogs.I spend $70 when a new Hearthstone expansion comes out and I can usually craft whatever I need past that, it's hard to say if Artifact will be cheaper or more expensive than Hearthstone. One of the largest driving factors behind me leaving MTG was the cost to play and time away from home was to high a price to pay in time, money, and effort.
I spent a lot of time playing Hex the Shards of Fate which has the same monetization as Artifact, but it allows players to directly trade and even do COD through mail. It did have the Legendary Rarity and 4 of a kind rules for decks but the highest single was around $25 due to the player base. On average you could pay $7 for a draft which takes ~3 hours to complete ($5 if you purchased packs on the Auction House). I expect the price points for Artifact to be similar. $7 for 3 hours of entertainment seems pretty fair to me. Ultimately, prices will be set by players with supply and demand. If the game isn't fun it will suffer, and it competes with many, many card games.
I judge Hearthstone to be a viable FTP game but I'd have to spend between 6-8 hours a day playing it which I simply don't have. Therefore spending $70 to catch up to competitive players seems reasonable to me. MTG, Hex, and Artifact have price points which are fine as long as they are palatable to people, but it's nothing that I haven't seen before. The ticketing system is almost same tix system in MTGO accept that events cost 2 tix in MTGO. Rebuilding my modern deck in MTGO cost ~$200 but that's an eternal format deck that needs minimal updates over the years.Given that Artifact is "fun" and I want to keep playing it my purchase strategy will be to purchase drafts and cap out on a certain number per week. I'll build my constructed collection in that way and learn to play the game. Playing draft mode should ensure a mostly even play experience. Eventually I'll start working on constructed decks when I feel like I know what I'm doing. I'm assuming I'll spend $10 per week until constructed becomes more important then I'll invest in a meta deck while building multiple other T1/T2 meta decks. Kripp mentions that he thinks that the draft mode will be the larger focus of the competitive scene, and although it might be that way for the first 2 months I'd have to say that I don't see it going that way past that. Historically speaking constructed play has been the primary competitive scene for most card games over the years. That's not to say that limited play doesn't have its place but, on average companies make more money on competitive constructed players and the auction house system with the singles sale in game seems to lean to that point. Also there's a higher variance in draft play which means that good players won't always get rewarded. It's for this reason that a lot of card players stay away from cards with random effects as it's best to control as much of the game as you can. One thing I'm worried about is the number of tournament modes available to players. It shouldn't be a problem at launch however if the game starts to lose momentum and the player base wanes then it will splinter the tournament cues and make it hard to get a tournament to launch. That's a concern I'd see a year to 2 years from now however. Hex is going through this now as it's lost popularity and no new card set has been launched. The payment for entry might also be a hindrance to new players that are already invested in other card games. It is likely that future players will get everything we're getting on the 28th for free next year around this time, which is fine because that's just how these sorts of things go. Ultimately, there's a lot of hype for the game and as with most games I hope it does well however there are a fair number of challenges ahead. I'm looking forward to playing it and I hope that it's going to be a fun engaging, strategic experience.
So Artifact has an initial cost, card packs can't be earned ingame, and it has the cancerous steam community market integration for buying and selling cards?
This is the worst monetization I've seen in a very long time.
F
If the game didnt have an initial cost then they wouldn't be able to give you card packs or anything, you would just download the game and can't play it. And before you say that they should give you stuff, the cards can be sold for actual money so you can't just download and sell everything. And this monetization is literally every paper card game ever.
@@duggerless You can't sell anything for real money. You give Valve real money for artifact, but if you cash out you get steam funbux since you can only sell on the market. If you buy into MTG you don't get WOTC funbux when you sell. Huge difference.
@@duggerless You could still easily fix that issue by giving new players an untradable basic set like the basic set in HS.
Of course these cards would need to be more simplistic/weaker but it would at least give new players who are unsure on spending money yet an opportunity to learn the game.
"And this monetization is literally every paper card game ever."
Just because things were done one way in the past doesn't mean it's a good way of doing things. Especially since it is digital, not physical.
not even that bad, alot of the "top" games cost $60+. $2.00 a pack with decent value, and resell potential. Just dont get hung up in collecting cards (trading card game not collectible card game) and it will be alright in price
. But i agree not lovin the lack of "free cards", too bad tho, the gameplay looks pretty interesting
it has the same model as Solforge had and in that game the "Keepers" draft was the only way to play in order to get new cards provided you were lucky enough to be given good cards every time you could play. It definitely needs a daily reward like Shadowverse and more new player friendly system because it is not a free to play game since you buy it and Solforge which on the contrary was a free to play game is now "dead" mostly because of this unfriendly model.
That's pretty hard to do since they wanna make money on card sales
I thought Solforge had an ingame currency that bought you boosters? I might be wrong though or things might have changed. As soon as I got into HS closed beta I stopped playing it, but for what it was, I really liked it at the time and the way you play and evolve cards was quite unique.
@@2starkiller there was ingame currency you are right . Silver coins were awarded to you by completing the dailies and playing drafts and reaching a certain number of wins. SInce you played it you might remember that in the beginning this system was too lenient and you could make a decent deck not for competitive play but just to enjoy the game. Well things changed drastically when all but the core booster packs in the store could be bought only with gold. I played from the beginning so i had couple of decent decks but new players could not get in because they would solely rely on the awards from the campaign mostly which was a finite deal. I also liked it and i remember Brian Kibler streaming it in the beginning since he was actively involved in the making of the game.
@@EmilClassic Oh right that might have been the case already when I played. I remember getting those packs was quite fast by just playing and there were cards that were at least to my mind really good. But yeah it was just one pack type, thanks for clarifying. It was a fun game to play and I loved how each card had so much art created for them and the unique way it played. Unfortunately it was basically the waiting room for Hearthstone for me. I got into it as I signed for closed beta for Hearthstone and when I got in finally I stopped playing Solforge.
Anywhere
Smells like Cash Grab. Funny to think about a random DC is worth like 2 bucks. You really prevented me from putting money into this, THX Bro!
Guys who made CS:GO, DOTA2 and TF2 a hats/skin hysteria, are making new game that is also a cash grab? Damn, what a twist.
@Agustin RoGo wrong. In HS you get 3k dust per month. Some russian dude hit top1000 legend from rank50 in 5 days as f2p. HS is free.
@@robosergTV HS is "free" but costs a shit ton to play competitively.
A game that costs money is automatically a cash grab - 2018 F2P gamer.
@Agustin RoGo You comment is a complete fallacy. The fact you can't sell HS cards is irrelevant, what matters is the total cost. If you spend $100 on Hearthstone and obviously get nothing back, but spend $300 on Artifact and get 50% back, you still pay $50 more playing Artifact. And 50% back is being generous, if Artifact is anything like MTG or Yugioh your cards may be worth 20% of what they were if you sell after rotation/bans/new set etc, and with Artifact taking 15% cut of your sales price making it even worse.
Not to mention the fact that HS IS FREE, many people, including me, have played the game since 2013 without paying a cent. This isn't just some irrelevant trivia you can brush aside, this is a major part of the game. "If you want competitive decks day 1 you must pay in HS" WTF are you talking about, why should a fresh newbie want or require a competitive deck day 1? And you have to pay to get that competitive deck in Artifact as well, HS has the option to not pay while in Artifact paying is mandatory
Does HS have problems, absolutely, I've played it since 2013 and criticised it since 2013. But the fact the game has problems with its monetising system doesn't mean another game can't have more, bigger problems with its system. And Artifact is, without doubt, more expensive
Draft is the most popular game mode right now and you just need the base game to play all the cards in that mode.
seems like artifact doesnt reward your time as much as hearthstone, but it rewards your money more. however it seems like putting time in artifact is more rewarding on a gameplay level
"Artifact doesn't reward your time as much as hearthstone."
"Putting time in artifact is more rewarding."
???
@@frogbaseball i said on a gameplay level, read the rest of the sentence and put the two pieces together. im trying to say that its worth putting time in artifact because not because it gives you stuff but because of the quality of the gameplay and various ways to play that keeps you interested.
Caleb Klusaw i think i agree with this statement. Its more of a rewarding game from a gameplay perspective. More technical and less rng swingy than hearthstone. Hearthstone is easier to get into really though.
thats never how it works out. there will be a best deck and you will have to pay a high price for it or get lucky with packs.
and you say its less rpg singy than hearthstone... in kripps video from yesterday a good amount of heroes had 50% chances to activate the ability...
that game looks like a massive cash grab and after a while they'll go down with your money. @@Palleto12
KrackerUncle When you watch 5 mins of gameplay i can see how you come to your conclusions. There are i think 4 abilities or cards or something with 50% chance things. Thats about all i can remember. Deployment rng can be controlled by having cards to reposition heroes and creeps.
Meta cards are always more valuable no doubt. Its a question of hour much more. Considering the amount of rares isnt huge and you get one per pack. Im thinking its not gonna be $30 a pack.
You could go unlimited with expert phantom draft, for 1 ticket if you win 3 you get your ticket back if you win 5 you get 1 tickets and 2 packs.
lmao at kripp talking about artifact "in five years time"
Captain Handsome in five years this game will be loooooong dead jajaja
Thanks for the video. It's a strange feeling knowing you can kind of "cash out" and liquidate your collection when you're done with the game, but not being able to go obviously infinite without some side hustle in card sales coupled with the price of entry is not enticing. You can probably justify the event model or the $20 up front separately, but both together is a bit much. I don't see myself buying this, however I do look forward to watching my favorite card game streamers playing it.
I remember when people flamed Kripp for saying that Hearthstones model is cheaper than the Artifact/MTG model...
Hearthstone is only cheaper for casual players. Any competitive player is going to have it rough compared to Artifact. Card packs are less expensive in Artifact, the highest raritiy is "rare" and you can buy singles.
The Vannarch just play warlock or hunter if you want competitive on a budget. Warlock will probably always have a viable aggro/ zoo deck while hunter’s best cards bar deathstalker rexxar virtually never cost more than rare.
@Reginald Holt The MtG and MtGA model are not the same.
Artifact is cheaper than hearthstone though..
@@whatisthis-uw9ok Maybe for buying every single card in game game. HS is cheaper by a mile if you are fine with just owning a couple of good decks instead of every possible one. Not even talking about people who are fine with playing the game for free and working a on new pack every couple of days. If you do you daily quest every day in HS you acutally can get a crazy amount of cards of the newest expansion for free. So nah artifact is much much more expensive unless you want to own every last card.
Great information sir! Can't wait to get into the game on Monday. Thank you for the content.
How expensive is Artifact?
Too expensive to bother. Unless this game is vastly superior to all the rest of its competition you can easily find wallet friendly free to play that are already great. CCG competition is abundant. If a game wants to gouge you....skip it.
One important thing you missed is that your cards will always have value.
If I want a deck, I can buy the cards for that deck. If I then want to get a different deck, I can sell those cards and fund that other deck
With something like Hearthstone, to dust cards in that manner would lose 75% of the value of those cards instantly. With Artifact, it's pretty reasonable to be able to recover almost all of the value you put in to be used on something different, be it a different deck, tickets, or heck any game on steam.
That's pretty great.
NAXX OUT?
Now In right its store!
A problem with the steam marketplace is there is a limit to 200 sales per year unless you give them additional information(Proof of ID, etc.) So this could be an issue later in the road.
Just play Gwent. It's F2P and the most rewarding card game on the market
Ruin Davidson hmmm you didn’t try eternal didn’t you?
Infinity Wars was the most rewarding card game ever. It's quite dead nowadays, sadly.
Shadowverse pls
Eternal Card Game most f2p and rewarding CCG ever
Eternal Card Ga..... ResidentSleeper
If you look at TF2 or CS:GO for reference on how market items are going to be handled, it would make sense that when you get 12 items for $2 instead of 1 item for $2.50, it logically makes sense that VERY quickly the value of cards is going to devalue from the total card price of $2 per pack to something much less than that. Especially if the cards from the packs that come with the base game are marketable. There will very quickly be an oversaturation of people wanting to sell the very common cards. I wouldn't be surprised to see the total cost of the cards in each pack to typically be less than .75 cents
not gonna buy this shit. still gonna watch you play it though 🌚
Then don't, they won't crash and burn because of you.
You have the best Avatar ever :D
@@Grobyc315 thanks darling
@@thevannmann No, but if many people are gonna have that mindset, they will.
not even that bad, alot of the "top" games cost $60+ so its gonna be alright.$2.00 a pack with decent value, and resell potential. Just dont get hung up in collecting cards and it will be alright in price
The answer always is "if you have to ask, you can't afford it"
Asking for 20 dollars just to try out the game is gonna cut the potential playerbase more than in half. Pretty bad move but we'll see. If a game doesn't want a f2p playerbase that is fine I guess but you will loose out on a decent chunk of community feedback and interaction since in my opinion people who work hard for a collection tend to stay longer than people that just buy stuff and move on to the next thing when they get bored after 2 weeks.
I think artifact is kinda intended to be like that? Maybe valve could care less about playerbase since it was build to be very competitive. Maybe it will not attract casual but I could confirm many pros will try it out.
Well the casual playerbase is actually the one that spends way more on a game statistically. Because they don't have much time and want to cut corners by spending money or they just have loads because they are whales. That is the playerbase every game developer is after so I would be suprised if Artifact is gonna be a success financially.
@@KartoffelKonig Valve has been literally drowning in money for years now. They care about their games and not just money. The whole concept of artifact is to create a great competitive game that is actually fair for the players spending their money. Why do you think they still haven't made half life 3? They could make the shittiest, most low effort fps game and call it half life 3 and they would make billions but they don't want to make it until they figure out how to create a new truly ground breaking game like half life 2 was. Valve is still a private corporation which means they don't have any stock holders to answer to. It's ridiculous people are calling artifact a cash grab when valve is literally the only major gaming company left that cares about the games and not just money.
I have not called Artifact a cashgrab. I just said that this is the wrong price model for a digital cardgame to be sucessful because most casual players don't want to pay something just to try it out especially in cardgames that is already by design build with lootboxes aka cardpacks at every corner.
Will the sets rotate from the artifact store? In 5 years will cards from the first set only be available from the marketplace? So, buying up good cards early will be like buying magic cards back in 1994?
Looks like dead on arrival. Pass.
The game looks really interesting. It also looks really expensive. I'd like to play it, but unless the cost to play comes down by a third or so I'm not likely to do so.
tl;dw Really.
The economy sounds whack.
These card games are the only games I find myself always playing. I play Hearthstone, Shadowverse and MTG Arena. They're free to play and I only have to put in real money if I want to. I can f2p on all 3 and enjoy them thoroughly. I wish Artifact was the same
Artifact looks cool, but it seems to be even more money grab than those mobile games...
The market place has existed for years, it's used for other steam games, it's under the community tab in steam, nooberino kripperino
Thanks for warning me Kripp - now I know it's not even f2p game
It'll be interesting to see how this turns out. They've replicated a physical card game market rather than a digital card game market.
$10 Happy Meal PogChamp
Maybe they should've changed the entry fee to like x amount of cards? You would get them back if you win at least 3 times. The advantage of this would be that these cards are (if lost) eliminated from the market, thus preventing inflation? Just an idea.
Thanks for covering it. Now i know to not bother with this game, business model is disgusting.
That means standard card games, you know the physical ones are also disgusting.
@@callumjennings6336 well at least you get physical card, instead of "lending access" to anything from valve
@@-Kidzin Physical copies are nice. But physical cards also lack alot special effects found in video games, I haven't seen a card game augmented with AR yet, and i don't want to use phones for games in any regard. And pretty much most EULA's for games state that you don't own the game instead license it's use and such. That's just part of digital media.
the question is how money do you have to invest to play competetively all the time....
This payment model seems unsustainable.
Artifact sounded interesting to me right up until I heard about the pricing structure. The name Artifact makes sense because this game is going to get fucking buried.
The more I stop thinking this is a video game the more I can accept its existence and just stay away peacefully.
I think the big issue right now in evaluating cost is the lack of information. I mean we have no idea how the market is going to work or how Valve will manipulate card distribution in packs or even the size of the player base. These are all things that will greatly dictate prices going forward. It's too complicated for anyone to make a prediction about price.
Now if the only concern or scope is base price of the game, event ticket price, and pack price then there we can argue price points. I myself am an old school magic player so the stated business model doesn't bother me to much. And since I can't sink endless hours into the game f2p isn't really f2p for me seeing as I have to sink money into it anyways the get anything out of f2p.
So there is no ingame currency? So you cant earn packs for free once you bought it? If thats the case.. No fkn way..
I believe it was staited there will be free tournaments where you can earn cards, and if I also remember correctly there are game modes where you get access to every card free.
It wont have free content because It would mess up the game's Marketplace.
If you could sell the cards you get for free you would be able to make "free money" in your Steam account.
@@luccasliuti8098 Soooo like how you can get free stuff in dota, tf2 and csgo (Drops and trading)? Wow what a huge problem.
@@jakobpaulsson3827 i dont get It. Why everyone is complaining.
You can get free cards in HS but is Impossible to play reliable without buying packs.
Its the same Shit.
Luccas Liuti yeah but you still get packs for FREE in hearthstone and most other digital card games, don’t know what your not getting
So basically like a real life TCG. A bold move. It reduces the playerbase size potential by a lot.
HS: free to play *Spend hundreds of dollars on the game*
Artifact: p2p *No way in hell I'm gonna pay for a darn cardgame*
Hundreds of dollars over years isn't much. Over time the amount of money you spend on artifact will get much higher then hs
@@atlas6538 why? you get more value out of packs, you get at least 1 rare a pack which is the highest rarity, and you can buy individual cards on the market.
yea but you dont make any progress unless you keep spending money
@@MrPtakopisk true, im talking about if you pay for packs for each game , or use the in game economy system. in a vacuum, hs has infinite more value of artifact because technically you can get all the cards for free.
@@MrPtakopisk the problem is making tier 1 decks because they will so god damn expensive other than that you can just keep selling your cards and creating a new deck. Still valve did mention that they will ensure cards aren't overly expensive in the market and a rare card is in every packs so the rare cards will be pretty common.
if there are cards that are essential necessary then they will be higher as a pack costs. it has a market so it will be like a real card game like magic.
The state of valve in 2018 is depressing. How the mighty have fallen.
You have no idea...
I don't see a problem, magic online has same business model (kinda) and there is a stable player base
Game's not out and it's dead already lul
not really, but ok
I hope so, this game is a fucking joke.
Why do you care if a game you won''t play dies?
@@Ericnorify Because of the precedent it sets for other games like this
@@norsehorse84 Enabling the ability for players to trade cards is a better model than that of hearthstone. You have to spend less money and time to build the decks you want. Hearthstone has succeeded greatly in creating an illusion of value.
The info Kripp provides is relatively well hidden - instead of being in the game description on the store page, it's in the "News" section of the Community Hub.
There are bound to be some players who, without visiting the Community Hub or watching TH-cam vids, will buy that game, believing that all they have to pay is $20. The lucky ones will find out about additional payments within the 2 hour time window and get their money back. The rest will try to sue Valve for trying to "mislead the consumers, by concealment of important information".
After that, Valve would panic and introduce a way to earn cards in game. However, those people who got their refund and left will probably not return, as, unlike in "No Man's Sky", there seems to be nothing unique enough or compelling enough in the game for them to bother. Some of these players will go to "Yu-gi-oh: Legacy of the Duelist" or "Faeria". Others will start playing "MTG:A"
Artifact bad praise Geraldo now gimme like
EA BAD
What Valve has done is essentially bring the paper TCG economy to the digital space. It works quite well for Magic, Pokemon, YuGiOh, and other games, but when you play those games, you have choice of where to play, who you want to buy/trade with, what store you want to support. Here, we only have one choice (aside from events, since you can make custom events): Valve. It would be super nice if we could play a free mode, grind out some in-game currency, and get packs or event tickets for free, but that would go against this "paper economy" they've made.
On the plus side, I'd say it's likely to be much safer to spend event tickets in Artifact than it would be to buy entry into something like FNM. The likely large player base means that if you lose 1 or 2 matches, you'll have a much higher chance to be matched against players who don't have netdecks, while at an in-store event, you probably know exactly what deck every player has, and in my experience it's about 10-20% who are not net decking (2-3 matches if you're lucky).
Can't wait to play it and watch your streams
As a longtime Mtg player I guess it's no suprise that I'm very excited over this business model. One of the many reasons I don't play hearthstone is because you can't effectively construct the decks you actually want to play through the random acquisition of cards. If you have infinite time on your hands to grind, the hearthstone model might be better but in reality you get more content for the money you put in with this model.
Basically its a collecting game that you buy but cant really collect anything unless you pay more money constantly yet cant really collect anything anyway quz you need to sell them to pay little less
Oh ok I am out
yeah ik well its a trading card game not a ccg like hearthstone. And when you sell a card you lose %15 to steam. When i dust a card in hearthstone blizzard takes %75 of its value. Pretty basic math.
+Palleto Katelo (Palleto) nono. youose a lot more than 15% you open a 2 dollar pack a d get 10 cards worth 3 cents and then from the 3 cents you pay 2cent for valve. you sold 30cents worth of cards that the buyer pays you get 10cent valve gets 20cent and you payed 200ce ts for the pack to start this process XD
Gizdalord You see that reall depends on the value of things. Generally rarer and meta defining cards will be higher valued. Every pack gets a rare. Really depends on what the peak value us vs the low point. If cards will be 3cents or something for the most part than sure yea your right. But i'm doubtful most cards will be that cheap.
@@Palleto12 Actually that's pretty accurate compared to physical TCGs. In Magic, Yugioh, Pokemon etc the pack filler is worth literally nothing, as in nobody will buy it because everyone has 20 copies already, pack filler rares might cost 50¢ or a couple dollars or something, and only the really strong rares have any real value. How expensive these op cards are depends on how rare Valve decides to make them, but if the rarities are similar to e.g. Yugioh they might cost dozens or even hundreds of dollars.
The beauty of HS's crafting system is that you can dust whatever card and always get the sane value, it doesn't matter if you dust a pack filler legendary or the best meta legendary, you always get 1/4 of the price of a new legendary
@@Palleto12 blizzard takes 0% of its value quz its not real money and you probably got it from some free daily quest for 0$ anyway
and hearthstone is trash i am not a fan of hearthstone nor i am a fan of this game either...
and you cant "trade" something if no one is collecting which means some are collecting it which means its a collecting game after all :)
You can just make the game with paper and play it with anyone irl and it only costs - paper!
Idiots are still gonna buy this shit...
card game that cost like real card game without the physical copy.... why
In what age do we live in?
The Information Age.
Digitizing everything makes sense. We have digital money. 30 years ago that would make no sense at all.
so... you rather pay twice the price for cheap cardboard instead and deal with card warping (especially in mtg these days, the card stock is horrible), card damage, buying card sleeves to protect it, having a place to put the cards, and carrying around a deckbox(es) and binders when you want to play/trade?
For $50 you get: Acces to the game, 2 starter decks, 10 packs and 5 keeper drafts. That's much more than what you get for $50 in hearthstone (keep in mind each keeper draft gives you 60 cards of your choosing + rewards)
@Francesco De Luca 20$ base game + 5$ for 5 extra tickets + 20$ for all the drafts = $50. Didn't say that was the base price, it's just a comparisson
And then play with your starter deck in casual mode vs some randoms without a ranking system. Seems fun.
But then the game doesn't have ranked, ingame currency neither ingame rewards and most of the game modes are behind a paywall. So, just don't buy the game if you don't pretend to put more money than that 20€. Is much, much more expensive than HS or Magic Arena.
@@alejandroagudosanchez5183 They can't give rewars for free, or else the market value would frop off and noone would buy a single pack. You don't pay $20 for the game, you pay that for the cards. The same way you can't "buy" magic, you can only buy cards. And any time you can get rewards, you need to pay. But there's an in-game torunament system where you can play free tourneys from day 1 so I don't see the problem with events being paid only
Is irrelevant if no-one buys a single pack (whales will always buy thousand of packs no matter what), packs are the main reward in €$€ game modes so there is always going to be more packs and more cards in circulation. So free rewards or not, packs are going to devalue pretty fast. 2weeks, maybe 6, depends of the momentum of the game.
And another factor, if draft is the principal game-mode, then the packs would de-value even faster.
Let me tell you a joke: checking out artifact
@Cunt Goblin The fact, that im not a hs player makes your answer more laughable
Even more laughable that you don’t need to spend a dime to make an above average deck.
@@inuzukasama9080 true that,havent payed anything,still haveing fun playing HS,even managed to build 2 fun tier one decks over 4 months
Atrifact just seems to need far too much money to actually get anywhere with
Your comment is the joke, considering the game isn't going to die any time soon. :))
@Cunt Goblin Aye, lemme play memeAfact and sink 20 dollars, than 100 dollars, than an extra 10 dollars just to play competitive only to get POWER CREEPED 2 expansions later!
What HS gives you for free yearly just playing casually:
52 classic packs from Tawern brawls
~10 packs from each expansion (plus free legendary from each) - 30 per year
~60 gold from daily quests - 21 900 gold per year = 219 packs
some other packs I do not count (choose your champion etc.)
But minimalistic count is ~300 packs. This will cost $600 in Artifact.
And I do not know, how will Artifact fight staleness in meta - will they just create new expansions (meaning more and more cards to buy for real money)?
For me its too much pay to play
Most games are?
What I figured when Valve announced a card game. They were looking at dollar signs.
I have my doubts that this game will stand the test of time.
This sounds a little too money hungry for me. I've had to completely cut myself off from spending money on HS, and it feels like that's not an option in Artifact. Sounds great for those who have money to spend tho!
Unlike Hearthstone, Artifact doesn't pretend to be something it's not. Competitive HS costs a shit ton of money. Artifact has more options to alleviate the cost in competitive.
@@thevannmann Wrong, you can play competitive HS without ( so long you are not a moron) to spend a single Cent
The thing with Artifact is that they can't really give free cards or the market values would drop tremedously and they'd never a pack. I'll probably only pay a top of 5 bucks a month for keepers drafts and then just casual and free toruneys, also trying out budget decks which never fail to exist in these types of games. It'll still be cheaper than buying each hearthstone expansion every year (and more fun!)
Artifact might actually be cheaper than your average HS experience, the access is 17.95€, you get a decent bundle for the price and you will probably be able to buy low power level cards for dirty cheap. What's awful is that for how low it might costs if you don't keep paying you don't make any progress, and cards power level is all over the place so opening packs is literally gambling.
Hearthstone is free experinace. When you start out you are given like 5-6 packs. A free death knight. Dungeon run. Monster hunt. 20 packs for climbing from 50-25 which should be pretty easy (you will be matched with other new players) guaranteed legendary on first 10 pack of each set. A free arena run. You are given enough free stuff to make a tier1/2 deck so don't bullshit yourself, artifact is certainly not cheaper to try out. And as for starter pack there is welcome bundle, basically equivalent of buying artifact base game just to try it but it's $5
@@atlas6538 when hs realase it did'nt have alot like you talk, and now 5 years already. who know artifact after 5 years?
Too many variables to tell now which games will end up being cheaper to play to a decent level without grinding ladder, when artifact will be on regime it will be easier to compare to HS and other games economy. My point was that in HS if you don't spend more money you can still play a couple of arena games or get a new card you didn't have, in Artifact if you don't put money in the system you are always stuck with what you have.
@@MrVietga That was 5 years ago. We don't live in 2013, expectation and standards have gone up a lot. Nowadays that kind of slow start don't cut it. The card games genre isn't lacking either. There are many games that are showering you with free content just to stand a chance against hs.
The average player only buys the welcome bundle and, in the past, the adventures which also gave you single player content. The average semi-competitive player chains enough arenas and spends his gold/dust efficiently enough to have multiple competitive decks for free. The average /r/hearthstone player plays 4 hours a week which isn't even enough to complete the dailies, blows hundreds on the game then, constantly bitches about not having a full collection of pretty gifs he'll never use in an actual deck, in a game he barely plays.
I think people concede a lot in tavern, because it is a limited time and often it is boring or annoying. I play a lot in Casual and it doesn't happen that often in there.
After watching the video, it is very clear:
"We are here to steal your last coins"
A game, which is said to be "free" (hearthstone, ESO, MTG Arena, etc.) must have given more FREE things than this one where you already have to start paying on the first day.
Nothing against Kripp, but the game is as mercenary as the others that cost nothing, the game is only more explicit in saying this.
What I can say is this:
In less than one year the game will become free ...
If the game doesn't do well the cards wont sell on steam, so they'll have to drop the price. It seems better to wait, but yeah I don't see this game doing that well after 6 months or so. People don't like complexity and thinking too hard. When it comes out there will be a lot of people watching, including me, but maybe not buying.
@@Rob-uv6fb people dont like complexity but games like dota which are way more complex than artifact still has one of the biggest and the most loyal playerbase. Cant use complexity as an argument cos people like that
@@stallon720 My guess is that more HS players will be playing/trying artifact than dota players and that HS players (mostly casuals) are less likely to enjoy complex games. I just cant see dota players having any interest in a card game, but we'll see.
Seems like a fair point, but then again there are a lot of MOBA players that are also card players. They both share an out of game building aspect. Card games allow you to build your deck whereas MOBA's encourage itemization build orders, talent points etc.... I'm curious to see how much you can get out of the game without spending more than the initial $20 for entry although I'd be ok with draft formats that allow you to keep your cards.
im never playing this game. i dont want to come in later than everyone else, be out skilled and then need to put money in it. I am not going to give this game an ounce of support, so hopefully in the future games dont go this route.
He neglected to mention that each keeper draft costs 12 dollars, which goes down to 10 if you get to 3 wins.
Lmao what a joke xD i'll stick with eternal thank you very much.
But seriously though you pay 20$ to play the game then pay more to get better cards p2w in a free card game i can understand but not in a paid game, artifact will die very fast it's even greedier than heartstone! xD
Long story short don't bother people don't get scammed!
8:39 oh kripp, if only you knew the TF2 trading experience. It'll take some time for traders to set in, but eventually you'll be able to get that money back to your account
...
I'm excited, but then again I am a casual player and just a fan of dota 2 characters, lore etc.
PAY TO PAY MODEL
just like: every other game that is not Free to play...
Lord Jaraxxus Nyet comrade, those normal games are pay to play aka you pay once and then you can play. Not need to pay money so you can pay more money lol
@@calebloveshockey you say pay to play model but never sayed play more than once to play...
blame my tf2 history for that comment...
I was really looking forward to this and Fallout 76... Maybe I'll have better luck next year.
I'm pretty sure Artifact's business model is going to fail spectacularly. $20 to start is completely reasonable, but there's going to be thousands of players up-front that will never try the game because of that initial cost. That's not really the issue though. The redditors have done their homework, and it likely costs ~$400 to obtain a complete set. That's a fact that Kripp can't state because it would turn too many people off.
I started Hearthstone as free-to-play, but I'm in my mid-30s with disposable income. I spend $50 on the set pre-orders, and between that and playing 5-6 days/week for an hour or less, I have no problem obtaining most, if not all, Tier 1 and Tier 2 legendaries and epics through packs and crafting in the course of 3-4 months. Kripp just buys 400 packs (even more these days) which gives about a full set, which is $500. So my playing of the game, my regular enjoyment, is actually worth hundreds of dollars in cards in Hearthstone. A full set of Artifact will cost me almost three years of my Hearthstone budget.
I know that people will argue that going for a full set isn't how Artifact is supposed to work. I've played Magic before so I get it all too well. I'm not a completionist with Hearthstone either. It's just nice to have the cards to try off-meta decks, fun decks, or when an underpowered card fits the meta (Raid Leader in 2018?!). It's fun to save up dust for a legendary that I want to experiment with, say Malygos or Genn, which unlock new archetypes. I think paying $2 for a specific card will actually ruin the experience for a lot of people. You're going to feel dissatisfied.
I think Artifact is missing out on the psychological rewards of playing Hearthstone. You might call me an idiot for preferring to play a month's worth of quests to save up enough gold for enough arena packs for enough dust for a single legendary when I could pay $2 for it instead. But I like experimenting with new decks each day to complete my quests. I don't feel pressured to just play the meta net-deck. But I might if 1) I paid actual money for that meta net-deck and 2) I don't have a lot of extra cards other than the meta net-deck that I paid for. The meta is going to go stale super fast in Artifact without an aggressive expansion schedule which means even more money to shell out. And if my free-time playing the game isn't getting me anything, then I definitely don't want to spend my free time fiddling around with the marketplace all the time selling my excess collection.
Basically, this is going to be the next HEX: Shards of Fate, not the next Hearthstone. BUT... The great part about Artifact though is that it is a digital card game. So when their business model fails they can keep the cool game they've designed and convert the business model to free to play. I'll check it out then.
Interesting : i immediately thought of HEX: shards of fate during the video, all i remember from the game is trying gauntlet once or twice before becoming basically a trader : constantly buying cards below their value and selling them back at full price, because that was the best way to grind...
Try shadow verse my dude, it has better memes than hearthstone :^) with lower the cost
The initial cost may be higher but we will have to see what the cost over time will be like. Valve won't have as much of a need to keep pushing out new power creepy crap every couple of months because releasing new cards won't be their only source of income.
If there is no investment on your time
o feel of progression, I feel bad for the people that burn 20 bucks out the gate. It will basically all be tavern brawl as you explained. If you start losing just back out cause it just doesn't matter. MTGA has been awesome so far, I can build plenty of decks without dumping lots of money, which actually makes me spend some money.
Looks like buying cigarettes when you are a nicotine accro though. Also I am afraid about the possible market prices crazyness if people can choose the prices.
Clearly, one does not understand economics.
Just look at MTG, 99% of the cards cost less than 0.09€, which destroys de value of packs. And then the meta cards, the first 10-20 more rare, powerfull cards, cost from 5 to 50€ each one.
@@alejandroagudosanchez5183 But neither cs go and dota 2 has a meta consisting of the 1% of all the game's materials at the player's disposal. Dota 2 has an enormous pool of viable heroes that can easily adapt towards a multitude of situations. CS GO on the other hand, has different tiers of skins, which conditions a wide range of cosmetics that can be bought and you may choose one of them or not, depending on your current available money.
It's much easier to like putting in large amounts of time when you effectively get paid for it because it's literally your job :-)
Dead on arrival
Has any game Valve released been dead on arrival? I think you can answer that yourself.
It will be on life support because sweaty steam fanboys.
But it will never beat games like gwent.
And it will never come close to to HS.
That's mtg and yu gui oh monetization on a new online game.
And that's bullshit.
@@SkyllerSY You're just an delusional fool if you think artifact is worse than this piece of hot garbage named Gwent homecoming.
Look at this simple fact all gwent streamers flee like rats from this joke of a game.
Hopefully hearthstone will die when this game arrives.
Calling it right now. Going f2p within 3 months.
Oh is a paid game, goodbyle then
Events are kinda bad, because if they do eventually achieve 50% win rate, here is the breakdown
0-2: 25%
1-2: 25%
2-2: 18.75%
3-2: 12.5%
4-2: 7.8125%
5-1: 7.8125%
5-0: 3.125%
Total rewards:
Phantom/Constructed, .3125 ticket, 0.296875 pack, or 1 ticket = .4318 pack.
Keeper, .625 ticket, .609375 pack, or 1 ticket = .4431 pack
Given tickets are $0.99 each, each pack "costs" a bit over $2, taken the "better" rate keeper draft, for example, it would be $2.23
This is more expensive than buying the packs at $1.99
So the only reason you should play events is.... if you can do better than 50% which is supposedly not possible long term(?) due to mmr. So events is literally jumping through hoops to get LESS.
So yeah, they better update the ratio, because this is pure stupidity.