Tamiya DT-03 & DT-02 MS Shocks: Playing with Tamiya Damper Oil!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Can't say Tamiya doesn't ad some color to life and the hobby! Here's an introduction to Tamiya's line-up of different shock oil - or damper oil - for your RC Car. Simply messing around with some oil, some different methods of bleeding and getting rid of air bubbles and and testing the effect on a pair of Tamiya DT-02 MS Shocks on a Tamiya DT-03 Racing Fighter.
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Please understand, this is not an instructional video. Just some clips from a quiet afternoon in the hobby room, with me trying to tune up my shocks and testing some tips with my limited knowledge. But here you can see what happens to a pair of shocks if you do like I do - and then decide for yourself. All helpful comments, tips and tricks are welcome in the comment section!
For those who are unfamiliar with Tamiya Oil, the colors can be very helpful when opening up some shocks to see what type of oil was applied - if you, like me, is just a hobbyist and collector (not a racer) who doesn't type up the set-up for each car in the collection. Well, of course, my problem in this video was opening up some old shocks, detecting clear oil, and then having no idea if I used Tamiya 900 clear oil or a different brand with no colors. But when absolutely sure Tamiya oil was used, the colors can be really helpful later on.
For a quick overview of some of the other content in the video:
- Even though oil was the subject of this video, oil is not the only option for tuning your shocks: Length, springs and pistons can also be altered to your choice.
- The numbers Tamiya use for the different oils is based on the viscosity of the liquid. Water viscosity is 1. The hardest oil from the standard Tamiya oil line-up is the red 200 and ending with the light blue 1000.
- This is the second time I've tried out the "under-the-piston'-method. And it simply doesn't work for me. Maybe it works for you. I don't think the main problem of getting rid of air bubbles is all due to bubbles being trapped under the piston when pouring oil from the top, above the piston. Many of the bubbles come from an 'uneven pouring' (if that makes sense). From the oil itself. I also find that the angle and awkwardness of trying to pour oil underneath the piston is causing more bubbles in the oil.
- I always find it essential to let the shocks with the new oil sit for a while. Occasionally moving the piston up and down. And then letting them sit again. For me, when patient, this method has proven the most effective, and when done right there are NO bubbles (visible) in the oil in the final result. I don't see any way around this method, unless you got some magic up your sleeve or you skip inspecting the oil thoroughly for bubbles. To detect them it requires the best lighting and patience. Best way, of course, would be to get a semi-professional Oil Air Remover tool. Tamiya and other brands have them available.
- Maybe the end result in this particular video wasn't the best, but it takes a long time, waiting for the bubbles to disappear, so in the end, time ran out for me on this particular afternoon. But it certainly helped a lot with some harder oil - especially with reducing the rebounce. Maybe #1000 would have been better. And maybe testing a two-hole piston in the rear with the right type of oil could have proven the best best result. But fine tuning wasn't really the goal anyway - since the shocks will be sitting on another car.
- I am still experimenting with the correct type of bleeding and position of the piston when closing/sealing the shock body. In this video positioning the piston in the middle produced the best result in my humble opinion. But it also produces some weird rebounce effects. According to the official Tamiya manual the piston should be placed at the bottom. According to comments in the last video, the piston should be placed at the top. Let me know what you think?
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#NordicRCVisions Statement:
This video features homemade footage of my own #RcCar #TamiyaRCCar #TamiyaDT03 #TamiyaDT02 from my personal #RC collection. All rights reserved.
All #RcCars and RC parts in this video are hobby-grade and intended for adults and ages +14 years.
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I found on the buggies lighter oil makes them work better when you put the heavy oil and then make the springs stiffer the buggy will bounce and float over the bumps more and with a lighter oil you will see the a arms moving up and down over all the bumps making the buggy run smoother... I liked the second set up you did... and actually try to use the stock CVA's and put 10wt then try 15wt oil in them I always run light oil in those CVA shocks they work much better tamiya always makes you make the shocks and with the oil they make you use they are always way to thick and over dampened feeling and when you drive the buggies they bounce over all the little ruts in the terrain. You don't want them over dampened because when you hit a bump it could bounce the buggy up and the A arm wont come back down fast enough to absorb the next bump and it will float over it and with a shock that is just right the a arm will go up to absorb the bump and quickly come back down without bouncing fast enough so it's ready to absorb the next bump, You have to actually ride off road and do a actually driving test because what you think looks good by dropping the buggy down can work the opposite in real world testing. 😁That's my take on tamiya shocks.
Great points, Steve! Thank you! I will pin the comment for others to read it too. What I don’t like though with the light oil is the quick rebounce in the rear - which will turn the rear into a hopping bouncy hopper - especially with these light rear-motor-mounted 2WD models. And light oil is terrible for the hard belly-landings in jumps. With the thicker oil I find them more controllable - less bouncy - especially in light off road terrain and on road - and better landings. But you are right, they really can be too stiff - making the flexibility of the suspension in heavy off road terrain useless.
@@NordicRC That's weird check out my vanquish and monster beetle older test run videos and then look at my later ones with the 10wt oil being tested in them they drive much smoother and better with the lighter oil over unprepared dirt surfaces.
haha that desert gator at the end was a great addition to put things in perspective😉
He he, yeah, compared to those “shocks” any oil in any kind of oil filled shocks would be an improvement 😅😊
So many different options concerning shocks; it can make one’s head spin! Thanks for navigating us through the choices like a pro Mikael!👍😊
Thank you, Jeremy! Yeah, I consider the racers (that actually know something about it unlike me) to be true artists with shock positions, length, pistons, oil, bleeding, pre-load and springs! But changing the oil from soft to hard is simple enough. That’s what I like about it - it suits my skills 😅
Hi Mikael, a very interesting video! Oh what fun we have trying to tune shock absorbers! I read Steve's comment with interest. I think a lot of this is dependent on personal preferences. I find with using a 3 hole piston, a harder oil woks better, but that then depends on the type of driving and the terrain you are running on. And as you say, whether any big jumps are involved! Best wishes to you and your (now larger!) family - cheers!
Hi Mark! Well, thank you, I’m always in doubt when doing these videos. Somebody might think it is a tutorial 🙃 But just me playing with oil. Yeah, I think, when not racing, it’s a bit of a jungle of a lot of different preferences. I remember when building these shocks according to the manual, several commented that it was the wrong oil, too thin, the wrong bleeding etc. Well, I was merely showing what happens when building them according to the manual. Then I do the opposite, playing with harder oil and the bleeding process, and several comments that it should be the opposite again 😅 Well, I like them this way. Not too bouncy, not too much rebounce. I agree it is at the cost of some flexibility and rebounce speed, but I do remember, as shown in the video, to check the flexibility (not just slamming it up and down). So I think it’s good. Good for some light off road, asphalt and some jumps. But if not, I can always change it 😊 Thank you for your comment my good mate. And thank you! Yeah, a larger and more busy family now - at the cost of hobby time - but all is good. Best wishes to your family too!
I have played with the shocks on my dt03 and others quite a bit. From watching your first video, it's obvious to me, the oil was too thin or piston has too many holes in it.
You can see the spring rate, was overcoming the damping effect of the oil. As You wound on more preload, it got even more bouncy.
See, You need a certain spring preload or spring rate to suit the cars weight, So it doesn't bottom out everywhere. Then you need to tune the oil or piston damper holes to be able to slow and absorb that particular spring rate.
The 3 racing shocks you tried in your first video, mine were exactly the same. I put the pistons with 2 holes in them, and it improved a lot. Adding slightly heavier oil, totally transformed then.
You don't want to put thick oil to stop the car bottoming out, you use the spring strength for that, and then tune the oil and/or piston holes to suit that rate and slow that spring movement down so it's not bouncy.
I hope i explained that well 😊.
Hi Pete. It’s a great explanation - and I hope people can have benefit reading it here. Remember I do videos for TH-cam without any lengthy talks. So what I do is to show the effect of different shocks or different solutions. In the previous videos I showed the shocks exactly how they performed according to the instructions. And since the DT-03 is an entry-level buggy my guess is that a lot of people will build the shocks and hop-up shocks they purchase exactly according to the instructions. So a hop-up shock, in my book, that is advertised to fit a DT-03 should come with springs, oil and pistons that fit the DT-03. So with the video I show how badly set up they are from the factory and they actually doesn’t fit the DT-03. In this video I just showed some effects (that doesn’t make any major difference: bleeding, air bubbles, preload - as people in the original video said that those things would work) and then showed what one can do with just oil (I show other springs and two-hole pistons in the beginning, which also may make a difference, and stating that this video is not about them).
@@NordicRC oh exactly, i agree with you. Something advertised as being an upgrade for a dt03.. should in fact be an upgrade!
And like you say, set up as per instructions should work properly for those who do not have the knowledge or desire to tinker.
I don't often comment on videos, but i hope i have shared something from my limited experience that helps.
I really enjoy your videos and what you do. Sometimes i wish you would just say something 😂 but in a way, that's what makes your videos unique!
We have lots of the same cars and look forward to each video you do.
Cheers, from Australia!
@@peteuncle2935 Hi again Pete! Yeah, your comment can be really useful for people coming to this video. I thank you very much! And yes, I feel if a shock upgrade is advertised as being an upgrade for a particular car, the instructions and shock set up should fit that car. Otherwise it should just be advertised with the length, material etc. Acquiring the right oil and finding the right springs can really turn that purchase into a very long research-experience and a much much more expensive experience. Especially of brands like GPM and 3Racing do not have packages of spring options etc. All the Tamiya spare springs I have do not fit the GPM and 3Racing. So even for me, a Tamiya nerd, it can turn out to be a long and expensive process finding and trying out springs.
Ahh, and by the way, I have a second channel where I talk. Or well, not so much anymore. Spare time is rare.
Great video as always! I like the idea of colourful oils to be able to easily see how the shocks are set when opened up. I need to take a look at the Tamiya range of oils and get some in the OAG kit. Thanks for the excellent tutorial on setting up shocks 🙌🏻👍🏻
Thank you so much my good friend! Ahh my lack of skills and knowledge doesn’t make it a tutorial. Just a video about the oil line-up from Tamiya and me trying to do my best 😊
And yes, the colors of the Tamiya oil is excellent!
Thanks for sharing
Thank you for watching mate!
Nice Video 😎👍🏻
Thank you bro!
Ah some good nerdy shock experiments. I was just reading Steve's comment and he's right that you need to see what works when you drive them. You can get a good idea by dropping them on the bench. Thing is it depends what type of driving you are doing. The soft setup might be great over the bumpy surface but not as good in the bends on a smooth surface. Also if you are doing jumps you might want a firmer set-up where the chassis doesn't hit the ground every time it lands. It's really difficult to get it right for everything. Anyway, good stuff mate. I hope you and yours are all well 🙂
Hi Pete! Yeah, well, I think, if not racing, but just running, everyone should set up their shocks to their own liking 😊 I usually don’t just drop them up and down. Visually it’s just best for a video and demonstration. I also move them up and down a lot to ‘feel’ them (I think there’s even some seconds of that in the video) and I also roll them over obstacles on the table (like my hand) etc to get a feel for how they would behave. But it just doesn’t ‘translate’ very good on video. But yeah, hard terrain with lot’s of small bumps you would want some fast shocks. I definitely want a harder set up. For jumps, for asphalt, for my lawn. Besides that there’s the aesthetics- which often is more important for me than performance 😅 Nothing less sexy than too quick a rebounce 😉
Oh, that was a joy to watch, Mikael! I'm watching on the big screen, it's nice to see, you're an experienced TH-camr, you got a nice setup, great lighting, crisp focus and some really snappy nice clips.
Regarding the shocks, I'm seriously leaning to just almost only using CVA's. I have a "budget" restoration of a Top Force I am manning up to do soon, I might just use some DT-03 CVA's for it, why not? I think it might work alright, and if it doesn't it's not a lot of money wasted, ha ha, they can always be put to use somewhere else.
Hi Mads! Thank you so much for the kind words! Hope you are doing good too. I haven’t had much time catching up on channels lately due to the new baby. Yeah, the CVA’s usually work great. Some come with weird springs but mostly good. The CVA’s on the DF-03 work great I think so I see no reason why they shouldn’t perform good on the DF-01. It’s almost the same weight and weight distribution. Go for it I would say! 😊
Super vidéo ! Merci Mika !
Thank you, Alex!
Great upload and information
Thank you, Duke!
Nice build vid..would recomend lighter oil n 3 hole piston for off road setup..n drilling top cap for no rebound works as well...its an art..takes time but once master..makes running em so much fun.
Thanks for the recommendations, bro.
Super like, 🤩👍
Thank you bro!
One Year ago I started using the Tamiya - Air Remover Tool (54152): It works great and is much more difference, especially with big offroad dampers! Give it a try!
Hi my old friend. Good to read you again. Yeah, I often hear good things about it. Not sure I will get it though. Probably much better and easier but there’s something satisfying about trying to remove air bubbles the old fashioned way 😅
1 hole piston about 35weight oil.
2 hole piston with 45weight oil.
👍🏻
Tolles Video 👍Perfekt
Thank you so much for watching!
I prefer 3 Hole piston, makes the dampers run smoother, and tune the damper with the oil weight.
Yeah, me too 🙂
I accomplished the same thing using the stock dampers with modifications. I removed the one piece rod/piston and black o rings. I ordered the df03 rebuild kit from tamiya usa for 2 dollars (it is on sale right now) and it comes with red o-rings, piston rods, hard 900 damper oil, springs, and the red/green bladders. they are so cheap I ordered 10 of them. I used the piston rods and red o-rings from the df03 rebuild kit and installed the one hole pistons from the dt-03 kit which were included in the box. I found that the one hole pistons are the equivalent of two hole trf pistons. Why? because the trf seal tight and the ones included in the kit don't. they are about the equivalent.
The dampers will behave totally different now compared to the one piece piston/rod with shock spacers.
So I installed one hole front and rear dampers with red o-rings. fronts have 40wt (500cst) and rears have 60wt(800cst) associated oil. the front has the thinnest spacer on top and so does the rear. the rear has the longest piston rod spacer placed underneath the spring perch. the drop test in the rear is just like yours except I can lift the car on its front vertically and then let the rear fall and will get no chassis slap. in the front I moved the bottom shock mount to the inner hole so that I have some droop. I noticed comparing my sand viper dt02 to my racing fighter dt03 that the rear of the dt03 with the battery installed is heavier in the rear than my dt02. the dampers work so well now I am almost convinced they are just as good as the df03 dampers. I have ordered the df03 dampers just to find out myself.
I got the dt-03 and I think I have to redo the shocks after watching this video
I assembled the stock DT-03 shocks according to the instructions - and they work great - so yours do probably too 😊
@@NordicRC is there a trick to getting the back tires on the rims?
What's the best oil for buggy 1:12 ?
Great video, thanks a lot. Can you share your thoughts on the setup for a monster truck such as a Clod Buster or so?
Hi Christopher ! I think it’s the same principle. Adjust them according to your preferences and according to the weight of the truck and where you want to run it (light off road, bashing, jumping, asphalt etc). But didn’t the Clod come with friction shocks?
@@NordicRC True. The stock dampers have no oil. I exchanged them some time ago with oil-filled ones. I think I used oil that is not hard enough. The tires are filled with foam material. The setup is tricky.
I keep putting it off but this spring I'm gonna be in the shed and rebuilding all my shocks ( way overdue ) this video is very helpful !
I love the DT03 it's my most recent rc it was very cheap and has given me no problems at all, very impressed would highly recommend a dt02 or dt03 as a first tamiya to anyone !!
Thanks for the upload buddy 👍
Hi bro! Uhh, sounds like a good project. I need to revisit the shocks on some of my other cars too before the spring. Yeah, the DT 2WD line is a great Tamiya and kit started. 😊
The scratch on your left hand is that from your cat?
One of those scratches that I can’t account for. Probably from moving around furniture or from moving around branches 😂
I thought you don't want the piston to move in and out on its own you just wanted to stay in one position when you compress it without the spring on it.
Yeah, it depends on your needs. If you want that you need to bleed it completely like I showed in the beginning of the video
Don't have enough patience for that just want to know which oil to use for my hbx 16886 and how frequently it should be changed. Bought 4 oil shocks for the hbx 16889 and what a difference but I think they are not filled equally...
That reminds me I got a set of oil filled shocks to try out on my 16889 or 16980A. They look great. On normal hobby-grade cars (not race cars) oil should be changed whenever you have the time for it 😊👍🏻 But it depends. If running a lot in mud and dirt they should be changed whenever you feel a lack of performance. When ever the oil gets too dirty.
Great job sorting out the MS shocks bro. My set up is a little different thou..lol Since I do a little club racing on Astro turf ,I usually run a little bit heavy setup since we have a lot of jumps on our track. Usually 30-35 weight oil front and 40-50 rear depending on buggy or stadium truck. For the DT-02 MS at the track it's stock springs,3 hole pistons, 30wt frt and 40wt rear using Losi shock oil. It works fairly well I'm usually in the top five in vintage modified..lol So you're actually going to finally put proper shocks on the Desert Gator...Yay‼️👍
Hi Chris! Thank you! Nice you do some racing. And winning 😊 Ahh, 30 and 40. From what I can look up it’s equivalent to 350 and 500. More or less the same in the front as I have but far from the 900 in the rear I used in this video. The rear rebounce is what I was trying to avoid. And yes! The Desert Gator is getting a face lift 😅 If I ever get to it. Got a DT-03 and a DF-02 to make ready for the spring and then a couple of kids … and too little time 😊 Thank you for the interesting comment, Chris. I hope other people read it too.
@@NordicRC Anytime bud 🙂 I can't wait to see what you come up with for those buggies. Plus the builds for the kids! Unfortunately I get the lack of time to wrench and build.. Still have a bunch of projects to get to as well.. As for racing I get to go usually twice a month considering that track is about 45 mins away in a different state. But on a good note there's one that's about to open in my city so looking forward to checking that one out 👍 Hope all is well with you and your family bro 🙂
Hiya Mikael, Great tests my brother!!! As a rule, off-road tend to use "softer" shocks (oil) to get over (absorb) bumps and jumps (if the buggy (or truck) was ran true to scale, I never seen a real buggy jump equivalent to a 3 story house like RC buggies & trucks are subjected to). I agree with both Mark & Steve. Preloading the springs only set ride height (unless the spring is so tight from preloading that the coils bottom out before the shock shaft (again, as a rule, preload is used to level the lower arms, level with the surface with full gear in the chassis). There are so many ways to set these up but this is my insight from a racing point of view. TH-cam some videos on Pro-buggy racing, that just might help you out (or anyone else), It's pretty big racing over here in the States. I have a set of Team Losi shock oil from 104 CST to 610 CST (15wt to 45wt) oil. Pistons, oil, springs (both weight & tension) & shock angle all play a part. Keep going my friend, Tuning is the hard part but also fun and we all learn from it. ATB my friend, stay safe & healthy to you & yours!!!!!
Hi Bob! Thank you! Wish I could pin more than one comment - good tips you have for all of us. Yeah, springs and pre-load I also just use for ride height. Problem with many cheaper shocks is that they use the hardest springs with no option to set them. I also find that too hard and too long springs can alter the rebounce effect. And of course too hard springs can render the shock useless. Well, more-or-less the same point you had. I have watched some racer’s videos about shocks. But they often tend to be too focused on the exact surface and track condition. A bit too contextualized - for me and maybe other hobbyists. I just want a set up where I can run a little on asphalt, a little on grass, a little on sand/dirt and do a few jumps. So a set up that is not too hard/unforgiven but also not too soft so it will be useless on jumps and even surface. But yeah, the best one can do is set it up to one’s own preferences. I usually do not use my buggies on extreme off road conditions. I know Steve do after watching many of his off road running videos. I can see why he likes more flexibility than me. I do like the flexibility but not the extreme one and not a too quick rebounce. In my experience with these rear-motor-mounted light 2WD’s it will just make the rear extremely bouncy and uncontrollable. Ohh, well, I live and learn. Maybe when I learn more I will change my mind 😅 Thank you for the interesting comment my friend
@@NordicRC Yes sir, all that really matters is what "You" like and how "You" want to set up your RC. I run Pro-Line shocks on my Thunder Tech Ripper Pro race chassis on my Clod with 20wt (195 CST Team Losi oil), My buddy Kevin (Madmustang RC) and I are getting ready for some Monster Truck racing when it gets warmer out, right now its only 12 degrees out, ATB my friend, stay safe & healthy, to you & and the family!!
Good video. I think you should try closing the shocks when the shaft is mostly out, that way you get faster rebound than compression. The way you close them is the opposit and can cause bottoming on repeated bumps
So first bleed them and then retract the shaft and close them?
And thank you
Impossible to get perfect 👊🏻👍🏻
Ha ha, only time sets the limit 😊 I bet if one had a whole day (and some more knowledge than me) they could be set up perfect 😅