Thanks a lot Dave, great show! As for me 6.5 Creedmoor slightly better (I can hunt with it and try stretched out shots). Practically both of these calibers can be converted from 308 brass and any rifle made to shoot 308 Win can shoot any of these, just change the barrel. Best luck and Merry Christmas!
I’ve been watching your videos for a couple of years, I think, but I enjoy your content and appreciate the manner in which you address the various options of equipment and munitions… especially enjoy it when you can include some actual varmint time…thanks, keep it coming…!!!
Big Dave! Thanks for the excellent video!! But recently a friend of mine shot a eight point buck with a 6.5 Creedmoor Mauser M 18 at 300 yards for the kill!
As a hunter I totally agree with your philosophy. Speed overcomes drop and wind better than BC out past hunting ranges. If you get off the calculators and go shooting you can see for yourself.
That seems backwards. An AR-15 with 3100 fps at the muzzle shoots way flatter and faster than any bolt gun I personally have shot, and no way is it performing well beyond “hunting ranges”, compared to any 6.5 or 308, which are way way slower but have a massive BC advantage. BC is the only thing those rounds have going for them. Within typical hunting ranges light, flat, and fast makes perfect sense, but beyond that not so much.
Those Seekins Hit rifles are great. In the last two years I've shot a dozen of them in 308 win, 6.5 creed and 6 creed and they were all super precise. I've thought about getting one in 6 GT, maybe next year.
Yes, the Seekins Hit rifle only requires a barrel switch that anyone can do, just one screw then hand twist off and on.. That is the main reason I bought it. Thanks for watching and commenting here. I enjoy your channel.
Shooters calculator provides time of flight. With similar weight and ballistic coefficient, your 6.5mm 100 grain Ballistic Tip has a .35 G1, the time of flight between a 2900 fps mv and a 3200 fps mv is only .05 seconds at 300 yards. Not a lot, but on a perpendicular running target at 20 mph that is 1.5 feet behind your point of aim at 300 yards. On a deer taking a single step it is about half an inch. Those are some good shooting rifles
Holy 🐄 that 6.5CM is a straight shooter. The Federal 95 grain VMax are box rated at 3200 ft/sec, too. Wish I could buy some of these 100 grain loads off you. Wow those are sweet.
That's the funny thing about ammo, what shoots great in one gun can preform like junk in another. Your best bet is to shoot as many different factory loads as you can find (or afford) then stick with the one that groups best. After doing that the easiest way to improve the platform's performance is attach a tuner brake.
I have been doing some loads with 100 grain Sierra #1710 Hollow Point Flat Base in my Savage 18" 6.5 Creedmoor Hunter. I know you are looking for speed the last loads I chrono graphed were a couple of Varget samples. 41.3 grains yielded 2926 AVG with a SD of 6.7 five shot group @ 100 yards was .479". 41.8 yielded 2957 AVG with a SD of 13.6 five shot group @ 100 yards was .701. The Sierra book I have lists Max load @ 43.4 grains and 3200 FPS out of a 24" barrel so I have room to go yet on that one. I also loaded some 95 grain V Max with Varget. The charge weight was 42.3 grains of Varget and yielded 3026 FPS average with a SD of 15.3 five shot group @ 100 yards was .769". The Hornady book lists Max load for Varget @ 41.1 grains and 3150 FPS out of a 24" barrel. Hodgdon gives a little different charge for Max at 43.0 grains of Varget for this bullet and 3286 FPS from a 24" barrel. I bought the Hornady book after using Hodgdon's data I didn't notice any pressure signs as usual start low and come up gradually every chamber is a little different. I chose the Savage Hunter for its short barrel for my style of shooting there are sacrifices made with velocity that six inches makes a lot of difference believe me. You should get some high velocities with the longer barrels for sure. I think I can get my .243 a little faster than the 6.5 and it is only a 20" tube I just have to find a 100 grain bullet it likes. . I like the shorter rifles. I just made a load of 87 grain Bergers for my .257 Roberts with Viht N550 that checked in at over 3200 FPS I'm anxious to get back on it.
@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 Thanks, getting over the anxiety of lower velocities due to the shorter barrels takes some getting used to. I have a .260 Remington and a 6.5x55 Swede also at least they have longer barrels I don't think they can come close to the accuracy of the Savage though. I built the .260 when slower barrel twists were the only ones available for pre fits kind of killed it for the sleek long heavier bullets.
I feel like this test doesnt really prove much. Lets test some more typical loads for the calibers respectively and compare the performance, and determine what each is best suited for.
Thanks, You may want to see my playlist on each caliber/ cartridge for the information you seek. This demo had to show the same bullet weight for comparison and versatility of each.
I love your videos been watching you for a long time 👌 but I have to say I have never had any I have shot get back up and tell me that they are not going fast enough 🤷♂️
Ol teusty 243 is my favorite cartrage. I wont ahoot past about 300 yrds. If you want a 6,5 to fit in with the cool kids that is fine. Im not trying to apend 1200 bucke thinking it is going to make any difference in the 243 at 300 yrds. People act like rverything is better because its new. Nope, just aaroeting ploy to get folks to buy them. If you own a 6.5 you dont meed a 243 practicaly speaking they are close enough to the same. Hell both are great cslliners for whitetail
Difficult to get the same accuracy and speed out of a gas gun compared to a bolt. Too many variables. Check out the Taylor Knock Out Factor formula, where bullet diameter plays a factor.
6mm Creed., allows for a factory barrel twist that can accommodate bullet weights of 103-115 grain higher BC projectiles. For the .243 Win. 75-100 grain bullet weights are optimal with a traditional 1-10 twist barrel. You will get 50-100fps faster speed with the 6mm Creed if you handload.
@@freeworld-i3t How so? The .243 has 60 plus years of time testing by "hunters" with great success. The 6 creed developed in the last 15 years and is designed and more prone towards, newer manufactured heavy for caliber match bullets, better used by competition shooters. So .243 Win. or 6mm Creed. is a personal choice.
Did you see the energy chart towards the end of this video? At all distances shown on the chart, the 6.5 creedmoor has a higher sectional density and higher energy.
Well it's hard to put a semi auto up agents a coustom bolt gun . I mean come on now at least give it a fair shot bolt gun against bolt gun . I really enjoy all your content very Informational and educational . But you can't compare a bot gun especially a custom bolt gun to a semi auto . That's two different categories of rifles regardless of how good they shoot . Not trying to break your balls just making a true statement. Look at competition shooter's you don't see semi auto's on the bench with bolt guns unless it a semi auto competition. God bless you and your family God-bless America 🇺🇸
Thanks for your input here. All my rifles (regardless of action or stock configuration) must qualify as "Hunting capable", because I do not match shoot." I have done several videos comparing my MSR's and semi auto's vs Bolt actions of the same caliber and loads, all with acceptable hunting accuracy. Lord's Blessing's be to you and yours also.
I'm at a loss here. You are shooting reloads that haven't been tested in your guns that are over max charge and you don't know what kind of velocity you are getting because you did not chrono them? Am I gettint this straight? Seems very careless to me.
No, these handloads are not over max load. I have 3 other 6.5 creedmoors that these loads were tested and developed for and chronographed. I have 2 other 243 Win rifles that the loads were developed, tested and chronographed. I never go over the Max load and always follow the bullet manufacturers published book data. Again, these loads were not pre tested in the rifles featured in this video but are safe and accurate in my other rifles. Feel free to view my 6.5 Creedmoor and .243 playlists for more data.
@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 still if you are an experienced handloader you should know that every rifle is different and by the way on the hodgdon website your load for the 6.5 is a half grain over max.
I have said for decades (including my time as a Hunter Ed Instructor in Idaho!) that 400 yards was the furthest ETHICAL distance to shoot an animal (besides varmints ;)) mostly due to the time of bullet flight.. further than that, the animal has a good chance of moving while the bullet is in the air (1/2 second? I'm guessing) Not to mention MOST people aren't skilled enough/ get enough practice at those distances, to get consistent shots on target out there, with reading wind, slope, and other environmental factors...
Very well said. I cringe and sometimes marvel at the TH-cam videos of Long range shots taken on Deer and Elk sized game. I am a little envious of the skill of those that can make instant kill shots, at ranges of 400+ yards. I guess the old saying of "it 'aint brag if you can prove it," applies.
You are an old guy, with some faulty thinking. In the hunting world, it's always been heavy for cartridge bullets. Especially when you are using cup and core bullets. If you are using mono's, you run light bullets. In the 243, I'll run 100gr C&C bullets every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Another example is using the 200gr Nosler partition in the 30-06 for elk or bear. 250gr Sierra gamekings in the 338wm for elk. 160gr in the 7mm RM. etc. etc. You run too light of a bullet in any cartridge, and you are just asking for trouble: Less penetration, more wind deflection, and more meat damage/blood shot meat. Just how it is..
Glad I got to be an "Old Guy". Agree with you about matching the caliber/bullet to the size of the game intended ie: small for small, medium for medium and large for large. Higher velocity in all calibers and bullet weights is flatter shooting and gets to the target faster with more energy at ethical hunting range. As stated in this video, "Hunt however the way you want to hunt." For me, ethical hunting ranges are under 400 yards
Thanks a lot Dave, great show! As for me 6.5 Creedmoor slightly better (I can hunt with it and try stretched out shots). Practically both of these calibers can be converted from 308 brass and any rifle made to shoot 308 Win can shoot any of these, just change the barrel. Best luck and Merry Christmas!
I tend to stay with cartridge specific brass. Merry Christmas to you and yours.
I’ve been watching your videos for a couple of years, I think, but I enjoy your content and appreciate the manner in which you address the various options of equipment and munitions… especially enjoy it when you can include some actual varmint time…thanks, keep it coming…!!!
Thanks for your kind words here and for watching.
I just going to be straight up front… I’m biased towards the .243!
Nothing wrong with that statement. "Just shoot the rifle/ammo combination that you shoot the best. Thanks for watching.
Great video, thanks! New to .243 Win, and this was very helpful.
Hope this will help you more. Thanks for watching. th-cam.com/play/PLXqfgzMyk7eFEiKxP54iu73Oxbpbz_I-X.html
Big Dave! Thanks for the excellent video!! But recently a friend of mine shot a eight point buck with a 6.5 Creedmoor Mauser M 18 at 300 yards for the kill!
Yes, and congratulations to your friend. Thanks for watching.
Hell of a target there Dave with different rifles like that.
It was a good (lucky) day for sure. Thanks for watching.
As a hunter I totally agree with your philosophy. Speed overcomes drop and wind better than BC out past hunting ranges. If you get off the calculators and go shooting you can see for yourself.
Hunters believe a flatter trajectory curve is better than a rainbow curve always. Thanks for your input here and for watching.
That seems backwards. An AR-15 with 3100 fps at the muzzle shoots way flatter and faster than any bolt gun I personally have shot, and no way is it performing well beyond “hunting ranges”, compared to any 6.5 or 308, which are way way slower but have a massive BC advantage. BC is the only thing those rounds have going for them. Within typical hunting ranges light, flat, and fast makes perfect sense, but beyond that not so much.
Good test. Now repeat it, only, this time include the 25-06. 🤔
Thanks, Dave!
It's a tie!. But in my analogy where speed (faster to target) is best, the 25-06 wins when both are using a 100gn. projectiles.
Those Seekins Hit rifles are great. In the last two years I've shot a dozen of them in 308 win, 6.5 creed and 6 creed and they were all super precise. I've thought about getting one in 6 GT, maybe next year.
Yes, the Seekins Hit rifle only requires a barrel switch that anyone can do, just one screw then hand twist off and on.. That is the main reason I bought it. Thanks for watching and commenting here. I enjoy your channel.
Dave. Good and interesting video. Also, great shooting. Thanks for sharing and take care. Have a good evening.
Thanks Bobcat.
Thanks for the info Dave. Great video
Tanks for your comment and for watching.
I would like to see .243 -vs- Rem 6mm -vs- 6mm Creedmoor ......... and separately see 6.5 Creedmoor -vs- 6.5-284 Norma.
I am sure those comparisons are on TH-cam somewhere.
Thank you for another great video. God Bless You.
Thanks for the kind words here and for watching.
.243 is king in my book.
Great cartridge indeed. Thanks for watching.
Great video Dave 👍
Thanks for watching.
Shooters calculator provides time of flight. With similar weight and ballistic coefficient, your 6.5mm 100 grain Ballistic Tip has a .35 G1, the time of flight between a 2900 fps mv and a 3200 fps mv is only .05 seconds at 300 yards. Not a lot, but on a perpendicular running target at 20 mph that is 1.5 feet behind your point of aim at 300 yards. On a deer taking a single step it is about half an inch.
Those are some good shooting rifles
Thanks for you added insight here. Thanks for watching.
Holy 🐄 that 6.5CM is a straight shooter. The Federal 95 grain VMax are box rated at 3200 ft/sec, too. Wish I could buy some of these 100 grain loads off you. Wow those are sweet.
HaHa! Thanks for watching. "No Sale"
That's the funny thing about ammo, what shoots great in one gun can preform like junk in another. Your best bet is to shoot as many different factory loads as you can find (or afford) then stick with the one that groups best. After doing that the easiest way to improve the platform's performance is attach a tuner brake.
@@withoutprejudice8301 These are my hand loads.
@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 sorry Dave I thought I was talking to the commenter.
I have been doing some loads with 100 grain Sierra #1710 Hollow Point Flat Base in my Savage 18" 6.5 Creedmoor Hunter. I know you are looking for speed the last loads I chrono graphed were a couple of Varget samples. 41.3 grains yielded 2926 AVG with a SD of 6.7 five shot group @ 100 yards was .479". 41.8 yielded 2957 AVG with a SD of 13.6 five shot group @ 100 yards was .701. The Sierra book I have lists Max load @ 43.4 grains and 3200 FPS out of a 24" barrel so I have room to go yet on that one.
I also loaded some 95 grain V Max with Varget. The charge weight was 42.3 grains of Varget and yielded 3026 FPS average with a SD of 15.3 five shot group @ 100 yards was .769". The Hornady book lists Max load for Varget @ 41.1 grains and 3150 FPS out of a 24" barrel. Hodgdon gives a little different charge for Max at 43.0 grains of Varget for this bullet and 3286 FPS from a 24" barrel. I bought the Hornady book after using Hodgdon's data I didn't notice any pressure signs as usual start low and come up gradually every chamber is a little different. I chose the Savage Hunter for its short barrel for my style of shooting there are sacrifices made with velocity that six inches makes a lot of difference believe me. You should get some high velocities with the longer barrels for sure. I think I can get my .243 a little faster than the 6.5 and it is only a 20" tube I just have to find a 100 grain bullet it likes. . I like the shorter rifles. I just made a load of 87 grain Bergers for my .257 Roberts with Viht N550 that checked in at over 3200 FPS I'm anxious to get back on it.
Looks and sounds like you know what you are doing, quite well indeed. Thanks for your input here.
@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 Thanks, getting over the anxiety of lower velocities due to the shorter barrels takes some getting used to. I have a .260 Remington and a 6.5x55 Swede also at least they have longer barrels I don't think they can come close to the accuracy of the Savage though. I built the .260 when slower barrel twists were the only ones available for pre fits kind of killed it for the sleek long heavier bullets.
I feel like this test doesnt really prove much. Lets test some more typical loads for the calibers respectively and compare the performance, and determine what each is best suited for.
Thanks, You may want to see my playlist on each caliber/ cartridge for the information you seek. This demo had to show the same bullet weight for comparison and versatility of each.
I love your videos been watching you for a long time 👌 but I have to say I have never had any I have shot get back up and tell me that they are not going fast enough 🤷♂️
HaHa! Thanks for watching and for your down to earth comment here.
Good info 👍
Thanks for watching and commenting here.
“400 yards and in.” 👍
Yes, and Thanks for watching.
Ol teusty 243 is my favorite cartrage. I wont ahoot past about 300 yrds. If you want a 6,5 to fit in with the cool kids that is fine. Im not trying to apend 1200 bucke thinking it is going to make any difference in the 243 at 300 yrds. People act like rverything is better because its new. Nope, just aaroeting ploy to get folks to buy them. If you own a 6.5 you dont meed a 243 practicaly speaking they are close enough to the same. Hell both are great cslliners for whitetail
Agree with you that both will get the job done. Thanks for watching.
Difficult to get the same accuracy and speed out of a gas gun compared to a bolt. Too many variables. Check out the Taylor Knock Out Factor formula, where bullet diameter plays a factor.
Thanks for watching.
What do you think of 6mm Creedmoor compared to 243?
6mm Creed., allows for a factory barrel twist that can accommodate bullet weights of 103-115 grain higher BC projectiles. For the .243 Win. 75-100 grain bullet weights are optimal with a traditional 1-10 twist barrel. You will get 50-100fps faster speed with the 6mm Creed if you handload.
@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 that's a bit biased.
@@freeworld-i3t How so? The .243 has 60 plus years of time testing by "hunters" with great success. The 6 creed developed in the last 15 years and is designed and more prone towards, newer manufactured heavy for caliber match bullets, better used by competition shooters. So .243 Win. or 6mm Creed. is a personal choice.
Comparing bolt action velocity wui SR semi auto rifle.....no quite faor.
My hand loads for the .243 and the Creedmoor were tested in both bolt actions and MSR's with very little change in velocity prior to this test.
Had to laugh.., after the 3rd Creedmoor shot i said "holey moley" and you said "holey smokes". That rifle shoots.
The rifle shoots better than I do... Thanks for watching.
243 is deadly and more knock down and some people can shoot better than others 😮😂
Did you see the energy chart towards the end of this video? At all distances shown on the chart, the 6.5 creedmoor has a higher sectional density and higher energy.
Well it's hard to put a semi auto up agents a coustom bolt gun . I mean come on now at least give it a fair shot bolt gun against bolt gun . I really enjoy all your content very Informational and educational . But you can't compare a bot gun especially a custom bolt gun to a semi auto . That's two different categories of rifles regardless of how good they shoot . Not trying to break your balls just making a true statement. Look at competition shooter's you don't see semi auto's on the bench with bolt guns unless it a semi auto competition. God bless you and your family God-bless America 🇺🇸
Thanks for your input here. All my rifles (regardless of action or stock configuration) must qualify as "Hunting capable", because I do not match shoot." I have done several videos comparing my MSR's and semi auto's vs Bolt actions of the same caliber and loads, all with acceptable hunting accuracy. Lord's Blessing's be to you and yours also.
I'm at a loss here. You are shooting reloads that haven't been tested in your guns that are over max charge and you don't know what kind of velocity you are getting because you did not chrono them? Am I gettint this straight? Seems very careless to me.
No, these handloads are not over max load. I have 3 other 6.5 creedmoors that these loads were tested and developed for and chronographed. I have 2 other 243 Win rifles that the loads were developed, tested and chronographed. I never go over the Max load and always follow the bullet manufacturers published book data. Again, these loads were not pre tested in the rifles featured in this video but are safe and accurate in my other rifles. Feel free to view my 6.5 Creedmoor and .243 playlists for more data.
@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 still if you are an experienced handloader you should know that every rifle is different and by the way on the hodgdon website your load for the 6.5 is a half grain over max.
I have said for decades (including my time as a Hunter Ed Instructor in Idaho!) that 400 yards was the furthest ETHICAL distance to shoot an animal (besides varmints ;)) mostly due to the time of bullet flight.. further than that, the animal has a good chance of moving while the bullet is in the air (1/2 second? I'm guessing)
Not to mention MOST people aren't skilled enough/ get enough practice at those distances, to get consistent shots on target out there, with reading wind, slope, and other environmental factors...
Very well said. I cringe and sometimes marvel at the TH-cam videos of Long range shots taken on Deer and Elk sized game. I am a little envious of the skill of those that can make instant kill shots, at ranges of 400+ yards. I guess the old saying of "it 'aint brag if you can prove it," applies.
When I saw the title I figured 243 was gonna be the hare. 55 gr vs 147 or something like that. Good vid.
HaHa!...4,000fps vs 2,700fps??? I wonder about that match up indeed.
You’re splitting hairs
Creedmore is so much better than the rest, see how accurate those shots were?
You are an old guy, with some faulty thinking. In the hunting world, it's always been heavy for cartridge bullets. Especially when you are using cup and core bullets. If you are using mono's, you run light bullets. In the 243, I'll run 100gr C&C bullets every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Another example is using the 200gr Nosler partition in the 30-06 for elk or bear. 250gr Sierra gamekings in the 338wm for elk. 160gr in the 7mm RM. etc. etc. You run too light of a bullet in any cartridge, and you are just asking for trouble: Less penetration, more wind deflection, and more meat damage/blood shot meat. Just how it is..
Glad I got to be an "Old Guy". Agree with you about matching the caliber/bullet to the size of the game intended ie: small for small, medium for medium and large for large. Higher velocity in all calibers and bullet weights is flatter shooting and gets to the target faster with more energy at ethical hunting range. As stated in this video, "Hunt however the way you want to hunt." For me, ethical hunting ranges are under 400 yards