Interested in purchasing TE products? Here are affiliate purchase link to either: ►OP-1:bit.ly/3e11gjC ►OP-Z: bit.ly/2Qxuu0N ►OB-4: bit.ly/3Oq53a6 ►PO 33: bit.ly/33yNkHJ
Hi I just wanted to add that when teenage engineering initially posted about the new field, the complaints coming from users weren’t just about the price of the unit, they were also about how teenage engineering continues to raise prices while their customer service remains substandard and unresponsive. For someone like me who was debating getting the new OP-1 or the Synthstrom Deluge the price disparity and TE’s lack of customer service was the tiebreaker. It also bears mentioning that teenage engineering blocked me on social media for politely echoing what other users had been saying, specifically that I was hesitant to spend money on a big ticket item seeing the range of complaints about their lack of response or inability to fix broken items. As it stands now I will only be using their pocket operators and will be going for the Deluge over the field.
I think what rubs a lot of people the wrong way is feeling like they’re being roped into a particularly pathological form of GAS. These devices are among the most displayed by music production influencers, and yet, they are some of the most expensive relative to features on offer. It feels like the highest possible level of manipulation, in a space that’s already rife with it. Teenage Engineering always seems to outdo themselves, and have now taken it to a point where all you can do is laugh. They make content-fodder for social media influencers. If they just scaled up operations, they’d push more units and be able to bring prices down, but it seems they’re content to operate more as a lifestyle brand than a company that makes accessible gear for musicians. By contrast, I feel like Elektron consistently proves that a company can ride that same line and satisfy both requirements. They have extraordinary design and reasonable prices for their gear relative to features. Their product line has a unique workflow/philosophy, and yet contains basically all the interfaces expected by the majority of prospective users. Nobody is left wondering why, for example, it’s so damned hard to get audio off the device, as with the original OP-1. I dunno. I feel like if TE wants to be a lifestyle brand, that’s all fine and well. Whatever. But what I’d say is that it’s absolutely to the detriment of the music-making/production community. They are peddling GAS-inducing luxury fantasies when they could be making products “for the masses.” The first time I saw an OP-1, I was like “this is brilliant,” and then laughed when I learned it cost more than $600. Just immediately dawns on you that it’s not supposed to be anything more than a toy for rich dabblers.
I agree with you about Elektron. Mind you they’re not a design company, they’re just focused on electronic music gear. Maybe TE is spreading themselves too thin to really focus on one “group”. It’s very clear that their attention is on the next design and maybe not so much their clientele.
@@LiamKillen Elektron isn't a design company, true, but I think they care about design and aesthetics a lot more than most electronic music gear companies. They have their own aesthetic, and you can definitely tell an "Elektron box" when you see one (and not just because of the company logo on it!). I just feel like Elektron finds a better balance, where things are very much still music-gear-forward, and design serves that end. I don't have my Digitakt and Digitone anymore, but I never once felt they weren't worth the money I paid for them. It honestly makes me laugh to think right now that those two products combined would still come in less than an OP-1 Field. Just an insane realization.
I own an OG op-1 and OP-Z. They are both great products. I also recently got a Digitone Keys. I agree with you, Elektron products are really well designed and build. With TE, I always find myself thinking: « why this feature is missing? ». With Elektron, It’s « Wow it also does this! ». Especially, the Digitone Keys is an amazing instrument.
The problem with calling them a design company, though accurate, is that most people will take that to mean their products are shallow or dilettantish. Braun, another design company, didn't make radios or shavers until they conceived some of the best ever made. Apple (arguably a design-first company during the Jobs/Ive era) didn't make phones until they created the most revolutionary phone in existence.
Also calling them a design company feels like letting them off the hook for their steady climb in prices, essentially pricing all their old customers out of buying their products.
@@darkeye79 Yeah, agreed on that. I feel crummy for OP-1 fans who really liked the device and wanted to support the product line moving forward, only to essentially be told "That'll be $800 over what you paid for the OG, thankyouverymuch." That's a lot to ask anyone to shell out for a device that basically nobody's favorite artists are actually using to make music. But it's an even bigger punch in the gut for loyal users who want the latest version of the workflow they enjoy.
Don't really agree with that. Design to me means they should be raising the bar for usability and human interaction, things that are really important for devices that are both highly complex but need to feel fun and creative. How many synths do you have where you might think, if only TE had designed this and made it a pleasure to use? That takes a lot of skill and adds to the price though.
I really lost interest in TE products after buying an OP-Z which developed a problem with double triggers in the first 3 days. After that it only got worse, to the point where I just could not really use it anymore so had to send it back. In my opinion the build quality of that thing is just abysmal especially for over 500€
I got an OP-Z for Christmas last year and the double triggers started on day 1 although I wasn’t initially realising it was doing it. It got worse over the year and now the track button is so bad. I have to hold it down and wait for it to stop double triggering. Almost any button will do it t some point. Literally everyone on the forum mentions this problem. Apparently the Electron machines also have this issue. But it’s not worth the £500+ price tag for that reason. It’s useable but painful. *So* many times you lose notes by accident and all the settings fit that trigger. No undo feature. Then the pitch bend is insane how hard you have to press down. Like my finger muscles are in pain afterwards and I’m worried the thing will snap. Also it is banana shaped. It’s one of the first thing I notice about it. I’ve literally never seen a plastic product not be perfectly straight before. It’s really good. But those issues make it actually kind of garbage. But at some point I want to open it up and clean the contacts to see if that helps but honestly I don’t think it would.
The first OP-Z I had lasted about a month before the double triggering made it unusable. Sent off for repair, came back just as bad. Was given a new replacement. It lasted a day before double triggering.
For me it is more or less that im a big fan of their designs. Their Products look stunning, the handling is great, they even make menu diving enjoyable. They sound great, are fun to do and id love to own all of them. Sadly i am not in a position to be able to just buy what they come out with. Got my OP-1, got my pocket operators, got my ikea frekvens stuff but i wont be able to have my op-1 field or tx-6 so soon. I would not say im disappointed in the direction they took but its more or less im sad that im not in the position to buy everything they come up with now
Wowzer ... talk about a deep dive ! ... Thanks for all of your insights and commentary on the TE product line .. always informative as you provide such extensive detail to product .. cheers !
I feel that when you mention the problems with the OP-Z, you are a little bit dismissive "Sometimes people complain about the built quality..... I've had it for 3 years, and I havent had any issues with it... so..". I am super glad that the unity that you have, didnt present ay problems, but this is a big reality for the OP-Z. Everyone that I know that has an OP-Z has a faulty unity... mine cant perform at all without the annoying double-triggers for instance, which made me stop using it all together.
I know that some units are faulty according to the forums- for sure. That being said I’m not going to start speaking on behalf of other people- I can only speak on my own experience with the unit. I know several people who have owned it for a few years with no issues as well.
I'm on my second unit already and both had all the well known problems. Double trigs, got bent after a few months, encoders popping out and so on. And what is worst, no single word from TE about it, no fix, nothing. Oh, and after 5 years with a brand new OP-1, it's so full of problems that I barely use it.
@Liam Killen No one is asking you to speak on their behalf, I just mentioned you dont have to be dismissive when talking about actual problems that a lot of users are having with this specific equipment - me included. Just because you didnt experience these problems yourself, it doesnt make it less real (this goes for a lot of other situations in life too) . This is not a made-up issue, and your fortunate good experience (and your friend's experience) with the OP-Z, does not represent the entire user base regarding the built quality (or lack thereof) of this specific product. My issue is that this video seems like it will be a neutral and informative resource, but you are just advertising their products, and downplaying the reality of this specific product (specialy the way you say "so....") as if we were crazy or something.
@@HelloFabs Nah this video is not even pretending to be neutral he starts out admitting he gets gear and they get content. He basically just says "hey you get it, I shill their stuff. They get free advertising, I get to make a living on youtube" Thats how the entire synth nerd influencer space works. Hes not even trying to hide. I want to be mad but how could i be.
It isn’t just that they charge what they do for their products. It’s the fact that someone could spend over $600 on something like the OP-Z, just to have it bend, or double trig, or have encoders fall out. And how does Teenage Engineering address this? They up the price of the unit to $650, without change the build quality whatsoever. It’s acts like that which has turned me off of them. Not to mention their customer service, or lack there of.
I know I would feel guilty buying OP-1 because I now I wouldn't have time to use it. I have too much gear already. Still, I decided to have the new screen retrofitted to my Deluge. Yes, they upgrade hardware as well which is why I love Synthstrom and their product.
Design is important with any product, but with musical devices both fun and function are vital and I think TE is just trying to balance all three of these attributes in each of their products. For me the OP-Z hits the sweetest spots, it's an incredibly deep and intuitive instrument, well worth the price for what you get in such a tiny portable package. As they get pricier they seem to get more "quirky" and less functional. The OP-1 is a ton of fun as a creative toy, but its weird workflow just doesn't click with me for serious music creation. I got mine used but would never consider paying full price for one. The Field isn't even on my radar.
I agree that they're a design firm who happens to make synths, but the company's first products were synthesizers and they presented themselves as a synth company for quite some time. I'm willing to bet someone realized how badly they screwed up with sourcing the parts for the screen on the OP-1's first run and decided to just go all-in with the lifestyle/design firm thing to justify being so prohibitively expensive. If TE hadn't utterly flubbed the design of the OP-1 to such a degree to where they had to completely re-engineer the device with new components and a higher price point, they may have remained primarily a musical instrument company, methinks. I feel like the OP-Z was an attempt to redeem themselves for that mess and when people began reporting that their units were falling apart under their own weight they just said "fuck it, our products are status symbols anyway. Lets never try to make anything useful again."
@@LiamKillen Are you kidding "fuck it (and fuck the customer)" is basically the motto of all of today's tech companies, whether they deal in music technology or something else. Why do you think right to repair is such a controversial topic these days? These people don't give a shit about making useful products, they care about their portfolios, their bottom line, and their fancy lunches and dinners.
Great explanation on the reasons behind the TE products. You mentioned that there are great alternatives for the OP-1, can you recommend some for a beginner? I have the OG OP-1 and I like to noodle on it, but I can't get a song out of it. That's mostly on me because I cannot play keys, but I also feel the OP-1 is so complex that it doesn't click for me
some really good ones to get going on are imo the novation circuit for performing and playing your stuff and if you like to program your music in a sequencer kind of way then the op-z or dirtywave m8 are super great.
I bought a PO-30 for 45 bucks and it brought me into the music world after learning wind/string instruments. Someone has their head shoved somewhere i dont want to mention if they think any audio equipment is user friendly. I have an akai mpk and I feel like an absolute moron when trying to load stuff to buttons and record with any freeware or whatever. Simple, stylish and feature packed? Its like what DJI did with drones. I still have my Inspire 1.
I'm in that bent OP-Z camp that replaced my DOA OP-Z. Not fun. That's what makes me wonder about buying a TE product again but can see why they're revered as having a nice looking device can help bring you some inspiration too.
I have been trying to return my product for over a week. I changed my mind on day 2 and now have been waiting for a return label for an entire week. I think they are purposely doing this so to go over the 14 day mark. How can anyone trust this company?
Coming from playing guitar my whole life I really don’t understand why people get so up in arms about the price of TE products. Some people spend hundreds on a single pedal, $1000+ on just one guitar, $1000+, on just one amp. Yeah, the op-1f is $2000. Go look at the going rate for a Klon centaur, a gain pedal with hundreds of serviceable alternates for a fraction the price. There is literally nothing like any TE product that I’m aware of, if there were actually an alternative to the op-1 for less then I would have that instead.
They’ve simply become a hypebeast brand along the lines of Supreme, Bape, Etc. A designer brand that can make whatever they want and charge so much that who they exclude with the price doesn’t matter. Of course they have the cheap stuff for us normal folks (like supreme has underwear and hanes shirts and what not for cheap) but that’s not where they’re makin the money, it’s the expensive shit
OP-1 Field delay is still mono. Also, there is most definitely latency on the OB-4 speaker input, live jamming is not fun with it. If you don't have latency on your OB-4, then this is grounds for a replacement as TE sent me a faulty unit.
I still don't really understand what kinds of musicians these products are for. I feel like if I go to a live techno night, or an industrial gig, of all the gear not a single TE piece is used. Most of this stuff seems like it's mainly for people who like to dabble and noodle, and not necessarily write actual songs? Or they're trying to replace the "Family piano" with something more modern. I just don't really see these as instruments for serious song writers, at least not on their own.
I think everyone understands now why teenage engineering stuff is so expensive and appreciate its high quality. The problem is that quality still does not justify the price- there is a large market of extremely high quality audio products that are very expensive but still much less expensive than teenage engineering offerings-
Yeah I mean, in a world with the MPC One, there really is no way a person can rationalize the price of any OP-1 (OG or Field) as not at least majority driven by artificial scarcity and badge/prestige tax.
@@mlhbro How about they just enjoy using it? Or it’s portable… which an MPC one is not. I sold my Live 2 and Octatrack mk2 and used the money for a Field. It makes music fun again. I was tired of being stuck to a desk, tired of having to name my samples while sampling and projects when I just want to flip on the device and play. If it’s not worth the money to you that fair but people have their own reasons why they buy things. No clue why a lot of you guys claim it’s for prestige or cache… synths get zero pussy, this ain’t about cache lol
Great vid as always. It definitely helps to define TE as a design company that happens to make synths. Lucky you haven't experienced the OP-Z bending issue! Mine is bent; apparently a local music shop has been seeing them come bent right out of the box. Might be a climate thing - Australia (where I am) has some pretty hot days/temp fluctuations, so I'm wondering if that affects the material of the OP-Z body some. It must happen during shipping I guess.
They are all bent. It’s a new kind of plastic TE is using which I think is one of a kind. They wanted the exact specific texture. But they are all bent. They also all suffer from double triggers. I don’t believe this guy doesn’t get them.
I don't get double triggers. Why would you think they all get them? There isn't any evidence either way. There would be a lot more outrage on the internet if everyone got them. It only takes 5% of people complaining on the internet to make it feel like everyone has an issue.
I really like the po33, learned it thoroughly and played the hell out of it! I do think that, in the right hands, it can become a groovebox in its own right...but It's badly designed 😔 Mine started acting weird after one year of use, with power issues (the low battery message popping even with new batteries) and then not powering at all 💀 I get that it's a 100$ item, but it shouldn't be an excuse for it to be designed to break. Let's compare with a same price item: a boss pedal costs about 100$ used. You can throw it in your backpack and expect it to work, even after 40 years. And it will hold value, unlike my po33, which now is probably worth less than a casio pocket calculator 😭
They're a design company yet they couldn't put a backlit screen on their playdate handheld console....People tend to forget that the concept of design is meant to be practical first. I mean it's cool to play with those small OP, but yeah not gonna pay for "design". OP Field is the same price as a computer on which you could do way much more. But to each his own I guess, I heard they are very satisfying to play with and the materials used a top notch (which is the least you would expect from a product in that price range)
I remember the swedish TE guys when they were packings the firsts OP1… they had a lamborghini Countach in their garage were they they close the OP1 … they wanted to do a new casio with nice olivetti design…and promote the stuff in swiss design magasin… nothing has change , love the company, even if the service is apparently crap!
Other than the Pocket Operators (some of the most affordable gear) I have never wanted anything else they offer. Nothing has ever appealed to me in the slightest and that was before I saw how expensive much of their product line was.
@@LiamKillen This is kind of a snotty take, to be honest- especially when you admit at the start of the video that you get all of their products for free.
@@LiamKillen like I said it isnt that the price is an issue, it is before I even get to price teenage engineering stuff just doesnt appeal to me. The Form factor and work flow just dont appeal to me. I understand people who like them but I much prefer other brands offerings.
I had money in the bank sitting doing nothing. Now I’m playing the OP1F sitting in my house. Is it expensive? Yah. So? A lot of things in life are expensive. Op1’s are selling. I bought the first one at $800, it broke. Now that’s expensive! I would buy an alternative in a sec, if it was as fun.
Just in general swedish products are highly over priced. But that's because the employees of Swedish companies have salaries that are x2, x3, x5 or x10 the salary of a German, a French, Greek or mexican engineer/employee. So small Swedish companies can't compete in the international market. The only way they can subsist is by making products that are perceived as high added value, are just plain overpriced and targeting snobs that need to feel unique and special.
lol, OP-1 is one of the top selling synths because everyone wants to get rid of it after they have it and they turn over constantly. The PC case is a joke, there is sooo much better out there for less. The modular stuff isn't modular since the modules can't be changed. Calculator circuit boards they can't be bother to put a case around. Need I go on through their entire product catalog? I struggle to find any product of theirs that is fully baked.
It has become luxury music gear. If they had a customer service that comes close to apples one, i would understand the price tag. As it is i think they are separating the community that they once had in a negative way :)
They’re a design company indeed. The majority of their products are actually fashion designer prices clothing and accessories. Ppl shouldn’t hate tho because TE will make more affordable products in the future no doubt.
I feel like they have abandoned further Pocket Operator development- which is a shame. There is certainly room for something like a Super PO-33... PO-66? - With pretty much double the specs of everything on the 33. Love the PO line. Not interested in anything else they sell, especially the ridiculously priced OP1.
Nice vid, thanks! My op-z has a very severe bend and some of the buttons double trigger frequently. I like their stuff and I’m not a hater, but I don’t feel comfortable buying from them after that experience.
Pocket operators awesome! Opz good price bad build quality bends double triggers etc, everything they made after that I think they lost touch of reality where is pocket operator 2.0 or a better built opz ? That ish would sell like hot cakes .
I'd buy one if I had the money, I think it has some unique ways of generating music that aren't really found in other places, but it is so insanely expensive, I can't see someone purchasing this if they're only going to purchase the occasional synth. Makes more sense to get something more cost effective and flexible imo.
Yes there’s a lifestyle element to their synth products for sure. Other companies hire them to design units for them, such as: maiku multiplier, Donda stem player (which was never released), Frekvens speakers (with ikea), play date gaming console, pixel in collaboration with Google. I’m sure we’ll see other designs from them as well in the future. So yes, they are DEFINITELY a design company.
@@LiamKillen All lifestyle products. :) I'm just saying, don't mistake the map for the territory. Even McDonalds does "design" work. See, "design" is not about making a fancy high tech gizmo people love. Nor is it about "coming up with great ideas". It's about solving problems and motivating people's behavior. How to get 10,000 people across a bridge twice a day. How to offload manual labor into an automated process. How to bring a vase to market that is both interesting enough to be noticed, yet not fancy enough to be too expensive. How to get people to the moon and back. These are "designs". TE did not approach the "design" of their device the same way Akai, Elektron, Roland, etc would. Instead their design "problem" to solve was: "How to make a device that is highly portable, looks and feels visually like other global leading lifestyle design companies (Apple), and offers just enough features to be seen as fitting a product category, yet maintains some forward facing novelties that set it apart from a market perspective so that it can be priced at the upper price tier, so as to be marketed as a lifestyle product." They never expected to sell these at the scale of Roland. That's the whole strategy of high end lifestyle stuff. And it worked. Many people still think Apple is a computer company, but it's not. Many people think Nike is a shoe company, but it's not. Many people think Monster is a pro-audio cable company, but it's not. And many people think Teenage Engineering is in the audio instrument market, but they are not. Sure, you can use/do all those things with that product, but it's not the point. The point was to get a loyal base of followers that would pay anything for any product they produced, without question, and praise said things loudly. ...and it totally works. :) Seriously though, this is all in fun for me, hope you aren't riled. But do some research into this stuff. It's pretty amazing, and you will be surprised how little people understand the product worlds they actually live in. And they count on us not understanding what's going on. For instance, when you get a product launch with two similar products, but the more expensive one has basically no extra worthwhile features... they never intended anyone to buy the expensive one. It only exists to show you how much "value" there is in the slightly less expansive one. Or the inverse... every buy a car? The base model is 20k and has no features, and the high end one is 35k. But for only 27k you can get the middle model that has all the options other than big rims, leather trim on the doors and a slightly bigger motor. You are supposed to buy the middle one, because you made a market decision based on only the information they gave you. It's a deep well, but super interesting. I seriously encourage you to explore it. It will change your world view.
Here's the thing that makes me not like teenage engineering that much, the components are extremely inexpensive, you don't get a ton of bang for your buck hardware wise. The pocket operators are basically something similar to an arduino but even cheaper, each pocket operator probably costs around 5 bucks to make in parts.
Its definitely catered to a certain kind of person, which isn't hard to tell when looking at the people that own it. Some people make serious music. Some people like gadgets. Something for everybody.
There are a lot of big music producers who uses some of their stuff in their pipeline, not sure if calling it just "gadgets" is a fair description. It is very overpriced for what it is, yes, but it has its great capabilities (only if it had a better built quality though..)
Arguably I’m more okay with the op1 field or the TX-6 than I am with the pocket operators. They are cheap but they have the most annoying design choices I’ve ever seen in any gear of any price (#1 being no chromatic scale !). At least the OP1 and the TX6 do what they claim to do
TE has fully pivoted towards the commodification of the "creative lifestyle" to people *who are not really part of that lifestyle*. This infuriates people because it feels like TE is effectively gentrifying the creative space. It's making music gear, but not for musicians. Whereas a Moog or Prophet or Jupiter may be out of reach for most of us, if we save up or, I don't know, buy it with our advance after getting signed or getting a placement, we'd actually be able to make music with them. TE's products either do really basic things or do nothing musical at all, and cost a fortune in the bargain. Personally, I think it's kinda brilliant as a business strategy, but (and feel free to fight me on this) I don't consider them to be musical instrument makers anymore. No one likes having their passion turned into a commodity, but welcome to America...
I respect your take but I dunno I still think that musicians/producers do use TE gear. OP-1 is still one of the best “idea machines”- all the sampling POs I think are also great sampling idea tools. OP-Z is great too.
Yeah, honestly it would be like if Fender only made the Acoustasonic product line (e.g. guitars designed to sit in the background of influencer videos) or something like that. But even in that case, you'd have umpteen other guitar brands to choose from. There is nothing else quite like the OP-1, which sucks because TE seems to only be interested in making it less and less obtainable for ordinary people. Like, I almost am rooting for Behringer to rip off the OP-1 and sell it for half price, if only to see TE's reaction.
@@LiamKillen Very fair - TBH, I don't think people would care this much if TE had never made instruments. To the contrary, I know people who have used all the things you listed and are passionate about them. What stings, I think, is that all the products you listed are in the rearview mirror: OP-1: 2011, PO's 2015-2020, OP-Z 2018. It's a deliberate pivot that seems out of step with their existing customers in favor of, presumably, a shinier and better off clientele.
TE is really setting themselves up to be overtaken by competition with their pricing. 2k is a price that has lots of wiggle room for a OP-1 type product competitor.
While I like the products I definitely feel they are taking advantage of the people that truly like there niche products. It’s kind of like they care more about being boutique like then getting their device into people’s hands and being about the people. Typical greed move but it’s their choice. Sad but 🤷🏽♂️
The Pocket Operators aren't expensive. I would pay 100 € more for a nice comfortable display where i can see the patterns and different tracks and so on. But yes, the other machines are not cheap 😉
Only teenage engineering product I own is the p.o KO 33 it's cool for what it is and reasonably priced but stuff like the op1 is too expensive even if it was half the price it is it would still be to expensive ..but it shows u no matter how expensive something is there's a minority of people who will buy it just because they can most of us will never own one ..
It isn't that TE is so expensive, it is that their products are expensive for what they are. And this video is feeling like a joke of excusing the cost to function as opposed to be being an actual look at it. This is basically 14 minutes of, "I get it but....oh and here are affiliate links." The TX6, I have no doubt someone has put out "high quality audio" on tiktok with it. "High quality" audio is pretty easily achievable these days. But for the price, there is a world of cheaper portable mixers to choose from, or a world of not so portable. But oh we are all just freaking out and finally calming down. ...never mind you can pick up a 1010 bluebox and blackbox for the same wad of cash. The 400 is a good start into modular? If you want something you'll end up leaving behind, won't know the knob positions on, need chopsticks to work them, won't really play well with a future modular setup and you ignore the other options out there.
There’s a demographic of hobbyists / pros that actually enjoy + are willing to pay for TE products. My suggestion to you would be to just buy / consume content related to other products instead of wasting your time + energy watching videos about things that you seemingly hate?
@@LiamKillen Oh I'm sorry I found your video and thought it might be interesting and insightful (maybe with insight to something I was overlooking) clicked on it and watched it and then I have a different take on it than you. I seek out information on things. I don't look for an echo chamber. Nowhere did I say there wasn't a demographic willing to pay. Obviously there is, but the existence of a demographic is hardly proof that something isn't expensive for what it is.
@@LiamKillen today is the golden age of abundant affordable gear and a plethora of information, tutorials. Comparatively just recently bought a Akai MPC Live 2 and compared its older sibling a Akai S6000, which i bought new for 5600$ in 1999 The power and speed of the Live 2 is staggering , however the interface is somewhat clunky.
TE stuff is fine if portability is you main thing,but honestly that is all they are useful for. Personally I use an IPad or the Roland Mc101 (especially with the recent update) for that purpose both of which are more powerful though workflow is different. In the the studio TE stuff is a waste of money. EG My most recent purchase is a Yamaha MODx 61 which I got for £750.00, which is an amazing value synth compared to OP1. I genuinely do not see the point of the mixer at that price point. Even at £600 it would be expensive and any mixer without XLR jacks is a failure waiting to happen. To me It’s a toy for Dawless jammers who won’t work it too hard. The speaker I have less of an issue with as you can pay thousands for a decent pair, but it feels more a lifestyle product than anything else and hey go for it if you have the spare cash. Finally I know the OP1 sells well on Reverb, but I question how many of those are new and how many are recycled secondhand. Sweetwater, Thomann or Andertons maybe a better judge of sales figures as can’t imagine it outsells some of the cheap behringer Synths.
@@LiamKillen Yep I have no probs if it works for you, which means you see the value in it. I would give it a go if it was the same price as an MPC one. I’m not against expensive gear if it offers value to me. EG Check out Chase Bliss CXM 1978 reverb pedal. Well worth the money if reverb is your thing.
One thing I like about their company is that they make everything super fun. And I also like how every release is something thought provoking. It makes you curious how it works. But i'm my eyes they are an innovative electronics company that specializes in design. The only company that they could compare to as far as aesthetics is elektron. Both swedish. But yeah they are basically a modern art company that will get people to buy whatever they throw at them, if it makes them happy, they will produce it.
Well said! I get a bit annoyed when I see people dunking on their products. I personally love them, and I understand why they are out of some people's budgets, but that doesn't make them overpriced imo. You are paying for the design as much as the functionality.
@@RedHedDes Personally insulted? I don’t know any other looks at anything overpriced and takes it as a personal insult. I can certainly afford to buy any of it. I just can’t see a reason I should, or why when compared to the rest of the market, their stuff has so much markup on it. I’m not bargain hunting open box Behringer equipment but there seems to be very little reason for cost….unless their trying to take the Ferrari approach to exclusivity. Hence, I clicked and watched hoping for some insight but sorry, got nothing of the sort from it.
It's a shame the potential of this machine is hardly even scratched with people who can afford this, guess it's always been the bourgeois having things, not exactly talent. Such beige examples out there with such expensive gear.
@@LiamKillen indeed, but I feel it's a deep machine and potentials are extremely massive. But, a lot you see is as you said, insta gear people, it's so depressing. They should offer more as in good customer support or support actual musicians, artists who push it to the limits it can go, not these cookie cutter parasites. But, yeah... Anyway Love your channel and content. Best to you
While I appreciate an opinion piece, I won't lie, this comes across extremely biased and more of an ad for TE. Also the title asks the question. Why they are expensive yet I feel like you haven't really answered that. All I noticed was a brochure of their products and how you like them all and or have purchased them. It is absolutely ok to be a fan and wave the flag of your favorite brand, but it is also noteworthy to address the question which you have raised. Do they make interesting and creative gadgets? Yes. Does it change the fact that it's still over priced and their gear is faulty and customer service is horrid? No.
As I mentioned in the video they are a DESIGN company that happens to make synths which is the reason why they get away with charging outrageous prices. Also “product review” in the title is why I reviewed all of their products and classified them as “free/affordable” all the way up to “extremely expensive” categories in the video.
Until recently the image and ‘feeling’ around TE was approachable for anyone at any level, pushing boundaries on so many different fronts creatively and encouraging people to be and enjoy creativity…. Now I show my op-1 (original) to people and no matter how much they do or don’t know they just flag ‘cost’, or turn their nose up to the logo rather than listen to me talk about creative daily use and inspiration.. I guess no wonder there is a sleuth of videos supporting TE coming up at the moment… I know it’s a really horrible word, but I do mean it in the best way, they really need to tone and stop pursuing the ‘snobbery’… that’s now how people act when I try to show my OP-1 :( Great video as usual and wonderful to open the discussion and dialogue I hope! X
@@LiamKillen Like Yoda said “It will be……” It’s the nature of that type of plastic compared to a Korg Volca for instance. There is a lot of flaw in TE design🥲 Thanks for the video.
Hey Liam, love the channel I used to want an op1, but since the release of that itty bitty mixer for an extreme price, and then they doubled down with the new op1 that.... uh.... is too much money i now dont want an op1 at all, because i feel like they are like religious folks... you know begging for money lol
p.s. i thought the tx6 was 600 and thought that was waaaaaay overpriced hahaha, THAT THING IS 1200?!!!! what the fffff lolol honestly, you could likely use the zoom h6 with an sp404mk2 and 5 more inputs and a bluetooth speaker and busk and get weird.... ANNNNND get everything stolen, and buy it again, and do it again without even crying (i mean.. of course you would cry if anything got stolen, but i feel like, 500 dollars being stolen would be sad, but like .... JUST that mixer being stolen (easily due to tiny size) would be heart breaking)
"in my opinion theyre one of the most important synth (related) companies out there right now" - " they pretty much send me all of their synth related products in exchange for content"..... aaand thats all i need to know about this channel. see ya!
@@LiamKillen all youtubers are parasites as far as im concerned. it used to be an honorable space filled with legitimate enthusiasts but now thats been replaced by charlatans trying to make money / buy me a coffee / patreon begging bowl culture..
Lost me at "they'll never be another company like TE." There are far better ideas out there synth wise, and trust that capitalism will produce a company to come along and capitalise on them. Oh, and TE is much more in vogue with content creators who like to show pretty things off that they are in the broader music making community.
TE is a weird company, and while I know people have done great work on their gear, and the Pocket Operators are cool, things like the $1500+ table, which is some aluminum and a piece of plywood that can't cost more than $50 to produce, makes it hard for me to take them seriously. It feels like their trolling us sometimes.
Because they can, because our US money isn’t worth quite as much as it used to be, because you’re paying for the human interface between person and product. That’s the big thing. It’s not just the name or the materials. You can have a product with half the features of another product, but if the first one feels better to use and inspires creativity, then it can command a higher price. Everyone gets distracted by the fancy designs or the high quality, but that’s not the biggest part of it. It’s the things you can’t touch that ultimately define a TE product, and why they charge more for it. No different from people who for years have said “but Android can do this and iPhone can’t”. Sure, but the iPhone just works. It feels intuitive to use. A tractor does a lot more than an Audi GTRS, right? You can ultimately accomplish so much more with a tractor. However, they feel different to drive, don’t they? There’s a value to the intangible feeling of driving the GTRS compared to the tractor, yes? If you’re just trying to get from point to point quickly and easily, and feel good while you’re doing it, the GTRS is gonna win. This is all a given. What you don’t see is farmers flooding the Audi forums to complain that Audis cost too much money. That’d be kinda silly, right?
@@LiamKillen Thanks man. I just think it’s something that gets overlooked a lot. We’re all tech guys here in the electronic music world, and so it’s easy to get distracted by spec sheets and feature lists and this and that. I do it too! However, there’s a reason that everyone from beginners to pros enjoy their products, it’s just that anything above a PO comes with a pro price tag.
It’s funny though I just bought the RMX-1000 for like 1000 and it does one thing- it’s strictly an FX unit. People say it’s expensive but they don’t completely shit over pioneer as a whole.
Dont encourage them... Their prices are so out of touch not even close to being justifiable. Even as a design company I would say they're not that great, I mean those headphones look the cheapo headphones you get for free on flights. Most of their products look cheap imo
@@LiamKillen while we're both here id also like to ask you. which reverb pedal would you reccomend for digitone ambience/atmospheric? ive been eyeing bigsky and empress. thx for your input. love ur vids
Interested in purchasing TE products? Here are affiliate purchase link to either:
►OP-1:bit.ly/3e11gjC
►OP-Z: bit.ly/2Qxuu0N
►OB-4: bit.ly/3Oq53a6
►PO 33: bit.ly/33yNkHJ
Hi I just wanted to add that when teenage engineering initially posted about the new field, the complaints coming from users weren’t just about the price of the unit, they were also about how teenage engineering continues to raise prices while their customer service remains substandard and unresponsive. For someone like me who was debating getting the new OP-1 or the Synthstrom Deluge the price disparity and TE’s lack of customer service was the tiebreaker. It also bears mentioning that teenage engineering blocked me on social media for politely echoing what other users had been saying, specifically that I was hesitant to spend money on a big ticket item seeing the range of complaints about their lack of response or inability to fix broken items. As it stands now I will only be using their pocket operators and will be going for the Deluge over the field.
Sorry to hear that they blocked you- that’s shitty
I’ve had nothing but great and responsive customer service, so it’s maybe it’s just inconsistent or better now?
@@aoterouidk, every TE product I bought never broke, over several years of constant use.
I think what rubs a lot of people the wrong way is feeling like they’re being roped into a particularly pathological form of GAS. These devices are among the most displayed by music production influencers, and yet, they are some of the most expensive relative to features on offer. It feels like the highest possible level of manipulation, in a space that’s already rife with it. Teenage Engineering always seems to outdo themselves, and have now taken it to a point where all you can do is laugh. They make content-fodder for social media influencers. If they just scaled up operations, they’d push more units and be able to bring prices down, but it seems they’re content to operate more as a lifestyle brand than a company that makes accessible gear for musicians.
By contrast, I feel like Elektron consistently proves that a company can ride that same line and satisfy both requirements. They have extraordinary design and reasonable prices for their gear relative to features. Their product line has a unique workflow/philosophy, and yet contains basically all the interfaces expected by the majority of prospective users. Nobody is left wondering why, for example, it’s so damned hard to get audio off the device, as with the original OP-1.
I dunno. I feel like if TE wants to be a lifestyle brand, that’s all fine and well. Whatever. But what I’d say is that it’s absolutely to the detriment of the music-making/production community. They are peddling GAS-inducing luxury fantasies when they could be making products “for the masses.” The first time I saw an OP-1, I was like “this is brilliant,” and then laughed when I learned it cost more than $600. Just immediately dawns on you that it’s not supposed to be anything more than a toy for rich dabblers.
I agree with you about Elektron. Mind you they’re not a design company, they’re just focused on electronic music gear.
Maybe TE is spreading themselves too thin to really focus on one “group”. It’s very clear that their attention is on the next design and maybe not so much their clientele.
@@LiamKillen Elektron isn't a design company, true, but I think they care about design and aesthetics a lot more than most electronic music gear companies. They have their own aesthetic, and you can definitely tell an "Elektron box" when you see one (and not just because of the company logo on it!).
I just feel like Elektron finds a better balance, where things are very much still music-gear-forward, and design serves that end. I don't have my Digitakt and Digitone anymore, but I never once felt they weren't worth the money I paid for them. It honestly makes me laugh to think right now that those two products combined would still come in less than an OP-1 Field. Just an insane realization.
I own an OG op-1 and OP-Z. They are both great products. I also recently got a Digitone Keys. I agree with you, Elektron products are really well designed and build. With TE, I always find myself thinking: « why this feature is missing? ».
With Elektron, It’s « Wow it also does this! ».
Especially, the Digitone Keys is an amazing instrument.
Best comment ever
The problem with calling them a design company, though accurate, is that most people will take that to mean their products are shallow or dilettantish. Braun, another design company, didn't make radios or shavers until they conceived some of the best ever made. Apple (arguably a design-first company during the Jobs/Ive era) didn't make phones until they created the most revolutionary phone in existence.
Good points
Also calling them a design company feels like letting them off the hook for their steady climb in prices, essentially pricing all their old customers out of buying their products.
@@darkeye79 Yeah, really hard to defend them on the pricing thing. I greatly admire the OP-1, but the current price feels greedy plain and simple.
@@darkeye79 Yeah, agreed on that. I feel crummy for OP-1 fans who really liked the device and wanted to support the product line moving forward, only to essentially be told "That'll be $800 over what you paid for the OG, thankyouverymuch." That's a lot to ask anyone to shell out for a device that basically nobody's favorite artists are actually using to make music. But it's an even bigger punch in the gut for loyal users who want the latest version of the workflow they enjoy.
Don't really agree with that. Design to me means they should be raising the bar for usability and human interaction, things that are really important for devices that are both highly complex but need to feel fun and creative. How many synths do you have where you might think, if only TE had designed this and made it a pleasure to use? That takes a lot of skill and adds to the price though.
I really lost interest in TE products after buying an OP-Z which developed a problem with double triggers in the first 3 days. After that it only got worse, to the point where I just could not really use it anymore so had to send it back. In my opinion the build quality of that thing is just abysmal especially for over 500€
I’m sorry you had this issue
based on a sample size of 1?
I got an OP-Z for Christmas last year and the double triggers started on day 1 although I wasn’t initially realising it was doing it.
It got worse over the year and now the track button is so bad. I have to hold it down and wait for it to stop double triggering.
Almost any button will do it t some point.
Literally everyone on the forum mentions this problem.
Apparently the Electron machines also have this issue.
But it’s not worth the £500+ price tag for that reason. It’s useable but painful. *So* many times you lose notes by accident and all the settings fit that trigger. No undo feature.
Then the pitch bend is insane how hard you have to press down. Like my finger muscles are in pain afterwards and I’m worried the thing will snap.
Also it is banana shaped. It’s one of the first thing I notice about it. I’ve literally never seen a plastic product not be perfectly straight before.
It’s really good. But those issues make it actually kind of garbage.
But at some point I want to open it up and clean the contacts to see if that helps but honestly I don’t think it would.
The first OP-Z I had lasted about a month before the double triggering made it unusable. Sent off for repair, came back just as bad. Was given a new replacement. It lasted a day before double triggering.
@@floodo1 lol youre ok with spending 2200 and having it be inconsistent quality?
This guy is in their key demographic for sure.
😏
Dudes who don’t have a big problem with the price of products they get sent for free?
For me it is more or less that im a big fan of their designs. Their Products look stunning, the handling is great, they even make menu diving enjoyable. They sound great, are fun to do and id love to own all of them.
Sadly i am not in a position to be able to just buy what they come out with. Got my OP-1, got my pocket operators, got my ikea frekvens stuff but i wont be able to have my op-1 field or tx-6 so soon.
I would not say im disappointed in the direction they took but its more or less im sad that im not in the position to buy everything they come up with now
Yeah they’ve put themselves in that much less attainable position. No worry there’s so many other options
4:38 Wow that really is an eye opening statement. "a design company that happens to make synths." It's something so obvious, but very easily missed 😄
It’s what they are 🤷♂️
Wowzer ... talk about a deep dive ! ... Thanks for all of your insights and commentary on the TE product line .. always informative as you provide such extensive detail to product .. cheers !
🍻
🙌🏼
Cheers cuckoo!
I feel that when you mention the problems with the OP-Z, you are a little bit dismissive "Sometimes people complain about the built quality..... I've had it for 3 years, and I havent had any issues with it... so..".
I am super glad that the unity that you have, didnt present ay problems, but this is a big reality for the OP-Z. Everyone that I know that has an OP-Z has a faulty unity... mine cant perform at all without the annoying double-triggers for instance, which made me stop using it all together.
I know that some units are faulty according to the forums- for sure. That being said I’m not going to start speaking on behalf of other people- I can only speak on my own experience with the unit. I know several people who have owned it for a few years with no issues as well.
I'm on my second unit already and both had all the well known problems. Double trigs, got bent after a few months, encoders popping out and so on.
And what is worst, no single word from TE about it, no fix, nothing. Oh, and after 5 years with a brand new OP-1, it's so full of problems that I barely use it.
@Liam Killen No one is asking you to speak on their behalf, I just mentioned you dont have to be dismissive when talking about actual problems that a lot of users are having with this specific equipment - me included. Just because you didnt experience these problems yourself, it doesnt make it less real (this goes for a lot of other situations in life too) .
This is not a made-up issue, and your fortunate good experience (and your friend's experience) with the OP-Z, does not represent the entire user base regarding the built quality (or lack thereof) of this specific product. My issue is that this video seems like it will be a neutral and informative resource, but you are just advertising their products, and downplaying the reality of this specific product (specialy the way you say "so....") as if we were crazy or something.
@@HelloFabs Nah this video is not even pretending to be neutral he starts out admitting he gets gear and they get content. He basically just says "hey you get it, I shill their stuff. They get free advertising, I get to make a living on youtube" Thats how the entire synth nerd influencer space works. Hes not even trying to hide. I want to be mad but how could i be.
It isn’t just that they charge what they do for their products. It’s the fact that someone could spend over $600 on something like the OP-Z, just to have it bend, or double trig, or have encoders fall out. And how does Teenage Engineering address this? They up the price of the unit to $650, without change the build quality whatsoever. It’s acts like that which has turned me off of them. Not to mention their customer service, or lack there of.
Fair enough
Behringer cloning OP-1 and selling it for $200 would be the best troll ever.
Don’t see it happening lol
Now I'm praying for them to undercut TE 😅😅😅😅😅😅😅🤣💯💯💯💯🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
I know I would feel guilty buying OP-1 because I now I wouldn't have time to use it. I have too much gear already.
Still, I decided to have the new screen retrofitted to my Deluge. Yes, they upgrade hardware as well which is why I love Synthstrom and their product.
Yeah that would be an expensive buy not to use lol
Design is important with any product, but with musical devices both fun and function are vital and I think TE is just trying to balance all three of these attributes in each of their products. For me the OP-Z hits the sweetest spots, it's an incredibly deep and intuitive instrument, well worth the price for what you get in such a tiny portable package. As they get pricier they seem to get more "quirky" and less functional. The OP-1 is a ton of fun as a creative toy, but its weird workflow just doesn't click with me for serious music creation. I got mine used but would never consider paying full price for one. The Field isn't even on my radar.
Yeah I think there’s something for everyone in the TE universe
@@LiamKillen This guy still promoting TE says all you need to know about his channel.
I agree that they're a design firm who happens to make synths, but the company's first products were synthesizers and they presented themselves as a synth company for quite some time. I'm willing to bet someone realized how badly they screwed up with sourcing the parts for the screen on the OP-1's first run and decided to just go all-in with the lifestyle/design firm thing to justify being so prohibitively expensive. If TE hadn't utterly flubbed the design of the OP-1 to such a degree to where they had to completely re-engineer the device with new components and a higher price point, they may have remained primarily a musical instrument company, methinks. I feel like the OP-Z was an attempt to redeem themselves for that mess and when people began reporting that their units were falling apart under their own weight they just said "fuck it, our products are status symbols anyway. Lets never try to make anything useful again."
I don’t think successful companies ever just say “fuck it” lol
@@LiamKillen Are you kidding "fuck it (and fuck the customer)" is basically the motto of all of today's tech companies, whether they deal in music technology or something else. Why do you think right to repair is such a controversial topic these days? These people don't give a shit about making useful products, they care about their portfolios, their bottom line, and their fancy lunches and dinners.
Great explanation on the reasons behind the TE products.
You mentioned that there are great alternatives for the OP-1, can you recommend some for a beginner? I have the OG OP-1 and I like to noodle on it, but I can't get a song out of it. That's mostly on me because I cannot play keys, but I also feel the OP-1 is so complex that it doesn't click for me
It really depends personally I’m really into the digitakt- I think MPC one is also a great unit to come up with a finished product
some really good ones to get going on are imo the novation circuit for performing and playing your stuff and if you like to program your music in a sequencer kind of way then the op-z or dirtywave m8 are super great.
@@Apticx Thanks for the suggestions. I like the sequencer way to make music, so I'll look into those
I bought a PO-30 for 45 bucks and it brought me into the music world after learning wind/string instruments. Someone has their head shoved somewhere i dont want to mention if they think any audio equipment is user friendly. I have an akai mpk and I feel like an absolute moron when trying to load stuff to buttons and record with any freeware or whatever.
Simple, stylish and feature packed? Its like what DJI did with drones. I still have my Inspire 1.
Woah great deal :-)
I'm in that bent OP-Z camp that replaced my DOA OP-Z. Not fun. That's what makes me wonder about buying a TE product again but can see why they're revered as having a nice looking device can help bring you some inspiration too.
Man I’ve heard this too many times
Ikea speaker is amazing. Some design tweaks could be made but overall smart design and quality.
Absolutely :-)
I have been trying to return my product for over a week. I changed my mind on day 2 and now have been waiting for a return label for an entire week. I think they are purposely doing this so to go over the 14 day mark. How can anyone trust this company?
I have heard that their customer service is not the best. Sorry you're going through that.
Coming from playing guitar my whole life I really don’t understand why people get so up in arms about the price of TE products.
Some people spend hundreds on a single pedal, $1000+ on just one guitar, $1000+, on just one amp.
Yeah, the op-1f is $2000. Go look at the going rate for a Klon centaur, a gain pedal with hundreds of serviceable alternates for a fraction the price.
There is literally nothing like any TE product that I’m aware of, if there were actually an alternative to the op-1 for less then I would have that instead.
Yeah I mean it’s the same for drums too, really. Although 2k can get you a great vintage Ludwig + the. Some.
They’ve simply become a hypebeast brand along the lines of Supreme, Bape, Etc. A designer brand that can make whatever they want and charge so much that who they exclude with the price doesn’t matter. Of course they have the cheap stuff for us normal folks (like supreme has underwear and hanes shirts and what not for cheap) but that’s not where they’re makin the money, it’s the expensive shit
I’m willing to bet they make the most of their cheapest item - pocket operators
Also, slapping a label on the clothes is very different from R&D and manufacturing electronic products that have no analogue anywhere else
OP-1 Field delay is still mono. Also, there is most definitely latency on the OB-4 speaker input, live jamming is not fun with it. If you don't have latency on your OB-4, then this is grounds for a replacement as TE sent me a faulty unit.
There was latency but they corrected it with their latest update- I suggest updating!
It’s pretty much imperceivable after updating.
9:49. Just what you need for huge stereo sound! Both speakers, right next to each other. 😉
😏
@@LiamKillen I couldn't resist, sorry. 😄
Thanks for your video , awesome work
🍻
I still don't really understand what kinds of musicians these products are for.
I feel like if I go to a live techno night, or an industrial gig, of all the gear not a single TE piece is used.
Most of this stuff seems like it's mainly for people who like to dabble and noodle, and not necessarily write actual songs?
Or they're trying to replace the "Family piano" with something more modern.
I just don't really see these as instruments for serious song writers, at least not on their own.
I feel you. It’s partly because they’re just more fragile.
I feel like they’re more idea sketchers and studio instruments
I think everyone understands now why teenage engineering stuff is so expensive and appreciate its high quality. The problem is that quality still does not justify the price- there is a large market of extremely high quality audio products that are very expensive but still much less expensive than teenage engineering offerings-
Yeah for sure
Yeah I mean, in a world with the MPC One, there really is no way a person can rationalize the price of any OP-1 (OG or Field) as not at least majority driven by artificial scarcity and badge/prestige tax.
@@mlhbro *points at dirtywave m8*
@@mlhbro How about they just enjoy using it? Or it’s portable… which an MPC one is not. I sold my Live 2 and Octatrack mk2 and used the money for a Field. It makes music fun again. I was tired of being stuck to a desk, tired of having to name my samples while sampling and projects when I just want to flip on the device and play.
If it’s not worth the money to you that fair but people have their own reasons why they buy things. No clue why a lot of you guys claim it’s for prestige or cache… synths get zero pussy, this ain’t about cache lol
High quality? Op-z is probably the worst quality music instrument on the market
Great vid as always. It definitely helps to define TE as a design company that happens to make synths.
Lucky you haven't experienced the OP-Z bending issue! Mine is bent; apparently a local music shop has been seeing them come bent right out of the box. Might be a climate thing - Australia (where I am) has some pretty hot days/temp fluctuations, so I'm wondering if that affects the material of the OP-Z body some. It must happen during shipping I guess.
Yeah that could be it 🤔
They are all bent. It’s a new kind of plastic TE is using which I think is one of a kind. They wanted the exact specific texture. But they are all bent. They also all suffer from double triggers. I don’t believe this guy doesn’t get them.
I don't get double triggers. Why would you think they all get them? There isn't any evidence either way. There would be a lot more outrage on the internet if everyone got them. It only takes 5% of people complaining on the internet to make it feel like everyone has an issue.
I really like the po33, learned it thoroughly and played the hell out of it! I do think that, in the right hands, it can become a groovebox in its own right...but
It's badly designed 😔
Mine started acting weird after one year of use, with power issues (the low battery message popping even with new batteries) and then not powering at all 💀
I get that it's a 100$ item, but it shouldn't be an excuse for it to be designed to break. Let's compare with a same price item: a boss pedal costs about 100$ used. You can throw it in your backpack and expect it to work, even after 40 years. And it will hold value, unlike my po33, which now is probably worth less than a casio pocket calculator 😭
Yeah they’re not the most durable lil things
They're a design company yet they couldn't put a backlit screen on their playdate handheld console....People tend to forget that the concept of design is meant to be practical first. I mean it's cool to play with those small OP, but yeah not gonna pay for "design". OP Field is the same price as a computer on which you could do way much more. But to each his own I guess, I heard they are very satisfying to play with and the materials used a top notch (which is the least you would expect from a product in that price range)
Yeah the user experience on these things is completely unique.
I remember the swedish TE guys when they were packings the firsts OP1… they had a lamborghini Countach in their garage were they they close the OP1 … they wanted to do a new casio with nice olivetti design…and promote the stuff in swiss design magasin… nothing has change , love the company, even if the service is apparently crap!
I guess that’s their vision!
They claim the prices have raised because of the increasing cost of build materials. Plus they do have to make a profit and feed their families too.
Yeah it’s true everything went up
Other than the Pocket Operators (some of the most affordable gear) I have never wanted anything else they offer. Nothing has ever appealed to me in the slightest and that was before I saw how expensive much of their product line was.
Yeah it’s not attainable to everyone
@@LiamKillen This is kind of a snotty take, to be honest- especially when you admit at the start of the video that you get all of their products for free.
@@LiamKillen like I said it isnt that the price is an issue, it is before I even get to price teenage engineering stuff just doesnt appeal to me. The Form factor and work flow just dont appeal to me. I understand people who like them but I much prefer other brands offerings.
@@JohnnyTakeAll same
I’ll lend you my Playdate. Do you think you could turn it around in ~90 days?
Lololol
Wait if you’re actually serious e mail me at liam@liamkillen.com
I felt like I just watched a 17 mins infomercial
lol!
I had money in the bank sitting doing nothing. Now I’m playing the OP1F sitting in my house. Is it expensive? Yah. So? A lot of things in life are expensive. Op1’s are selling. I bought the first one at $800, it broke. Now that’s expensive! I would buy an alternative in a sec, if it was as fun.
Yeah if you think it’s worth it then pick it up! Simple as that!
The POKO is so much for so little and with a very thoughtful usable functionality that I would forgive them anything.
😏
Just in general swedish products are highly over priced. But that's because the employees of Swedish companies have salaries that are x2, x3, x5 or x10 the salary of a German, a French, Greek or mexican engineer/employee. So small Swedish companies can't compete in the international market. The only way they can subsist is by making products that are perceived as high added value, are just plain overpriced and targeting snobs that need to feel unique and special.
True!
lol, OP-1 is one of the top selling synths because everyone wants to get rid of it after they have it and they turn over constantly. The PC case is a joke, there is sooo much better out there for less. The modular stuff isn't modular since the modules can't be changed. Calculator circuit boards they can't be bother to put a case around. Need I go on through their entire product catalog? I struggle to find any product of theirs that is fully baked.
I agree- there is better for the price
Not to mention their Offwhite collab. luxury items like the OB-4 limited edition and all sorts of apparel, and TE have DIY computer cases too!
Yes! Computer 1! I mentioned those
It has become luxury music gear. If they had a customer service that comes close to apples one, i would understand the price tag. As it is i think they are separating the community that they once had in a negative way :)
Yeah apple’s customer service is second to none
TE is the Dolce Gabanna of instruments. You're buying the brand
Yup
They’re a design company indeed. The majority of their products are actually fashion designer prices clothing and accessories. Ppl shouldn’t hate tho because TE will make more affordable products in the future no doubt.
Yeah pixel is a great example
PC 1 came out in 2014??? I thought it was a newer thing. I wish it was ATX but I get the draw of a pretty ITX case.
Oh really? Didn’t know that
They should start making buses, short ones.
🤔
try some behringer stuff really good and pretty cheap/
They got a bad wrap - I consider them the Walmart of the synth world
I would really love a cow pedal
maybe one day that will exist lol
I feel like they have abandoned further Pocket Operator development- which is a shame. There is certainly room for something like a Super PO-33... PO-66? - With pretty much double the specs of everything on the 33. Love the PO line. Not interested in anything else they sell, especially the ridiculously priced OP1.
PO-66!! I mean the OP-Z is an extension of the PO workflow IMO- their quite similar in that way
Nice vid, thanks! My op-z has a very severe bend and some of the buttons double trigger frequently. I like their stuff and I’m not a hater, but I don’t feel comfortable buying from them after that experience.
Should mention I issued a support ticket within a year of owning it and was told by TE’s official support, that it was normal 🤷♂️
Yeah I understand that- sorry to hear it
Pocket operators awesome! Opz good price bad build quality bends double triggers etc, everything they made after that I think they lost touch of reality where is pocket operator 2.0 or a better built opz ? That ish would sell like hot cakes .
They’re focusing on a lot outside the synth world
@@LiamKillen the jump suit made me chuckle a bit on price
PO133 is my favorite for when travelling on the train!
I’m a 33 kinda guy
Bro you deserve millions of subscribers like Andrew Huang!
I'd buy one if I had the money, I think it has some unique ways of generating music that aren't really found in other places, but it is so insanely expensive, I can't see someone purchasing this if they're only going to purchase the occasional synth. Makes more sense to get something more cost effective and flexible imo.
Yeah the price is heavy
I’ll stick to my MPC one
Fair
Calling them a "design" company is wrong. They are a "lifestyle brand" company, with an audio theme. Google lifestyle brand. It's a real thing.
Yes there’s a lifestyle element to their synth products for sure.
Other companies hire them to design units for them, such as: maiku multiplier, Donda stem player (which was never released), Frekvens speakers (with ikea), play date gaming console, pixel in collaboration with Google. I’m sure we’ll see other designs from them as well in the future.
So yes, they are DEFINITELY a design company.
@@LiamKillen All lifestyle products. :) I'm just saying, don't mistake the map for the territory. Even McDonalds does "design" work. See, "design" is not about making a fancy high tech gizmo people love. Nor is it about "coming up with great ideas". It's about solving problems and motivating people's behavior. How to get 10,000 people across a bridge twice a day. How to offload manual labor into an automated process. How to bring a vase to market that is both interesting enough to be noticed, yet not fancy enough to be too expensive. How to get people to the moon and back. These are "designs". TE did not approach the "design" of their device the same way Akai, Elektron, Roland, etc would. Instead their design "problem" to solve was: "How to make a device that is highly portable, looks and feels visually like other global leading lifestyle design companies (Apple), and offers just enough features to be seen as fitting a product category, yet maintains some forward facing novelties that set it apart from a market perspective so that it can be priced at the upper price tier, so as to be marketed as a lifestyle product."
They never expected to sell these at the scale of Roland. That's the whole strategy of high end lifestyle stuff. And it worked. Many people still think Apple is a computer company, but it's not. Many people think Nike is a shoe company, but it's not. Many people think Monster is a pro-audio cable company, but it's not. And many people think Teenage Engineering is in the audio instrument market, but they are not. Sure, you can use/do all those things with that product, but it's not the point. The point was to get a loyal base of followers that would pay anything for any product they produced, without question, and praise said things loudly.
...and it totally works. :) Seriously though, this is all in fun for me, hope you aren't riled. But do some research into this stuff. It's pretty amazing, and you will be surprised how little people understand the product worlds they actually live in. And they count on us not understanding what's going on. For instance, when you get a product launch with two similar products, but the more expensive one has basically no extra worthwhile features... they never intended anyone to buy the expensive one. It only exists to show you how much "value" there is in the slightly less expansive one. Or the inverse... every buy a car? The base model is 20k and has no features, and the high end one is 35k. But for only 27k you can get the middle model that has all the options other than big rims, leather trim on the doors and a slightly bigger motor. You are supposed to buy the middle one, because you made a market decision based on only the information they gave you.
It's a deep well, but super interesting. I seriously encourage you to explore it. It will change your world view.
@@ChristopherOrth There’s a middle version of the OP1? Cool.
Well if you put it like that then I understand the prices. Now I’m not mad about it. I thought they where a music company first and designers second.
Def designers first at this point
I have a Few pocket operators , I wouldn’t buy anything else from them, it’s for people with money to burn
Op-1 is pretty unique and an amazing tool though
Here's the thing that makes me not like teenage engineering that much, the components are extremely inexpensive, you don't get a ton of bang for your buck hardware wise. The pocket operators are basically something similar to an arduino but even cheaper, each pocket operator probably costs around 5 bucks to make in parts.
Yeah I get that
Its definitely catered to a certain kind of person, which isn't hard to tell when looking at the people that own it. Some people make serious music. Some people like gadgets. Something for everybody.
OP-1 is used by countless top artists. And I’ve seen POs used in a pro studio for sampling ideas- no joke
There are a lot of big music producers who uses some of their stuff in their pipeline, not sure if calling it just "gadgets" is a fair description. It is very overpriced for what it is, yes, but it has its great capabilities (only if it had a better built quality though..)
@@LiamKillen How many of them got those units comped by the company?
Arguably I’m more okay with the op1 field or the TX-6 than I am with the pocket operators. They are cheap but they have the most annoying design choices I’ve ever seen in any gear of any price (#1 being no chromatic scale !).
At least the OP1 and the TX6 do what they claim to do
Haha yeah I get that- po 128 can program any note though!
They shipped me an opz with a faulty battery n wouldn’t take a return since I was in the hospital 🙏
🤔 that’s weird
Love my Tx-6. It’s the ultimate utility synth.
Me loves it too!
I don't like op1
I really don't like it at all
😢
TE has fully pivoted towards the commodification of the "creative lifestyle" to people *who are not really part of that lifestyle*. This infuriates people because it feels like TE is effectively gentrifying the creative space. It's making music gear, but not for musicians.
Whereas a Moog or Prophet or Jupiter may be out of reach for most of us, if we save up or, I don't know, buy it with our advance after getting signed or getting a placement, we'd actually be able to make music with them. TE's products either do really basic things or do nothing musical at all, and cost a fortune in the bargain.
Personally, I think it's kinda brilliant as a business strategy, but (and feel free to fight me on this) I don't consider them to be musical instrument makers anymore. No one likes having their passion turned into a commodity, but welcome to America...
I respect your take but I dunno I still think that musicians/producers do use TE gear. OP-1 is still one of the best “idea machines”- all the sampling POs I think are also great sampling idea tools. OP-Z is great too.
Yeah, honestly it would be like if Fender only made the Acoustasonic product line (e.g. guitars designed to sit in the background of influencer videos) or something like that. But even in that case, you'd have umpteen other guitar brands to choose from. There is nothing else quite like the OP-1, which sucks because TE seems to only be interested in making it less and less obtainable for ordinary people.
Like, I almost am rooting for Behringer to rip off the OP-1 and sell it for half price, if only to see TE's reaction.
@@LiamKillen Very fair - TBH, I don't think people would care this much if TE had never made instruments. To the contrary, I know people who have used all the things you listed and are passionate about them. What stings, I think, is that all the products you listed are in the rearview mirror: OP-1: 2011, PO's 2015-2020, OP-Z 2018. It's a deliberate pivot that seems out of step with their existing customers in favor of, presumably, a shinier and better off clientele.
TE is really setting themselves up to be overtaken by competition with their pricing. 2k is a price that has lots of wiggle room for a OP-1 type product competitor.
Oh yeah you can go wayyy more capable than the field at that price.
Tbh the only TE product that I would mess with is the speaker lol
It’s ddddoooope!
While I like the products I definitely feel they are taking advantage of the people that truly like there niche products. It’s kind of like they care more about being boutique like then getting their device into people’s hands and being about the people. Typical greed move but it’s their choice. Sad but 🤷🏽♂️
I mean I guess it’s a fair take
The Pocket Operators aren't expensive. I would pay 100 € more for a nice comfortable display where i can see the patterns and different tracks and so on. But yes, the other machines are not cheap 😉
Pixel’s free!
Only teenage engineering product I own is the p.o KO 33 it's cool for what it is and reasonably priced but stuff like the op1 is too expensive even if it was half the price it is it would still be to expensive ..but it shows u no matter how expensive something is there's a minority of people who will buy it just because they can most of us will never own one ..
Yeah there's no way getting around it...it's expensive AF
It isn't that TE is so expensive, it is that their products are expensive for what they are.
And this video is feeling like a joke of excusing the cost to function as opposed to be being an actual look at it. This is basically 14 minutes of, "I get it but....oh and here are affiliate links."
The TX6, I have no doubt someone has put out "high quality audio" on tiktok with it. "High quality" audio is pretty easily achievable these days. But for the price, there is a world of cheaper portable mixers to choose from, or a world of not so portable.
But oh we are all just freaking out and finally calming down. ...never mind you can pick up a 1010 bluebox and blackbox for the same wad of cash. The 400 is a good start into modular? If you want something you'll end up leaving behind, won't know the knob positions on, need chopsticks to work them, won't really play well with a future modular setup and you ignore the other options out there.
There’s a demographic of hobbyists / pros that actually enjoy + are willing to pay for TE products.
My suggestion to you would be to just buy / consume content related to other products instead of wasting your time + energy watching videos about things that you seemingly hate?
@@LiamKillen Oh I'm sorry I found your video and thought it might be interesting and insightful (maybe with insight to something I was overlooking) clicked on it and watched it and then I have a different take on it than you. I seek out information on things. I don't look for an echo chamber.
Nowhere did I say there wasn't a demographic willing to pay. Obviously there is, but the existence of a demographic is hardly proof that something isn't expensive for what it is.
@@AveragePicker Theres nothing like the TX-6 though, definitely not the 10 10 bluebox which is basically the same thing but cheaper and better.
*Free if you own a Google Pixel 5 and above
But POPX is great
😏
Try buying a synth in 70s ,80s or 90s.
Expensive ? That’s a joke right.
Yup- plus there’s way less information to make any decisions
@@LiamKillen today is the golden age of abundant affordable gear and a plethora of information, tutorials.
Comparatively just recently bought a Akai MPC Live 2 and compared its older sibling a Akai S6000, which i bought new for 5600$ in 1999
The power and speed of the Live 2 is staggering , however the interface is somewhat clunky.
"I think they are smart and their timing is impeccable", says the guy waiting over a year for a product on backorder
Lol sorry to hear that
TE stuff is fine if portability is you main thing,but honestly that is all they are useful for. Personally I use an IPad or the Roland Mc101 (especially with the recent update) for that purpose both of which are more powerful though workflow is different. In the the studio TE stuff is a waste of money. EG My most recent purchase is a Yamaha MODx 61 which I got for £750.00, which is an amazing value synth compared to OP1.
I genuinely do not see the point of the mixer at that price point. Even at £600 it would be expensive and any mixer without XLR jacks is a failure waiting to happen. To me It’s a toy for Dawless jammers who won’t work it too hard.
The speaker I have less of an issue with as you can pay thousands for a decent pair, but it feels more a lifestyle product than anything else and hey go for it if you have the spare cash.
Finally I know the OP1 sells well on Reverb, but I question how many of those are new and how many are recycled secondhand. Sweetwater, Thomann or Andertons maybe a better judge of sales figures as can’t imagine it outsells some of the cheap behringer Synths.
Op1 is the best idea sketch machine I got js
@@LiamKillen Yep I have no probs if it works for you, which means you see the value in it. I would give it a go if it was the same price as an MPC one. I’m not against expensive gear if it offers value to me. EG Check out Chase Bliss CXM 1978 reverb pedal. Well worth the money if reverb is your thing.
I don't bother with TE. There are other companies out there that will give me better value for my money.
Fair enough!
Marketing. That's it. They guessed that people would way too much and they were right.
Big part of it!
Your OP-Z skin is beautiful.
Got it from oversynth
Overpriced. Very Overpriced.
💰 💰 💰
One thing I like about their company is that they make everything super fun. And I also like how every release is something thought provoking. It makes you curious how it works. But i'm my eyes they are an innovative electronics company that specializes in design. The only company that they could compare to as far as aesthetics is elektron. Both swedish. But yeah they are basically a modern art company that will get people to buy whatever they throw at them, if it makes them happy, they will produce it.
They are certainly one of a kind, that's for sure.
Well said! I get a bit annoyed when I see people dunking on their products. I personally love them, and I understand why they are out of some people's budgets, but that doesn't make them overpriced imo. You are paying for the design as much as the functionality.
TX-6 is a perfect example of this- other companies will copy the design, save shit tons of money there and sell for much less.
They are pioneers of the industry in that way but yes…they are expensive there’s no two ways about it
Sorry people being reasonable annoys you...?
@@AveragePicker People being personally insulted that a company would sell a product for more than they are willing to pay for it annoy me.
@@RedHedDes Personally insulted? I don’t know any other looks at anything overpriced and takes it as a personal insult. I can certainly afford to buy any of it. I just can’t see a reason I should, or why when compared to the rest of the market, their stuff has so much markup on it. I’m not bargain hunting open box Behringer equipment but there seems to be very little reason for cost….unless their trying to take the Ferrari approach to exclusivity.
Hence, I clicked and watched hoping for some insight but sorry, got nothing of the sort from it.
It's a shame the potential of this machine is hardly even scratched with people who can afford this, guess it's always been the bourgeois having things, not exactly talent.
Such beige examples out there with such expensive gear.
It pricey AF
@@LiamKillen indeed, but I feel it's a deep machine and potentials are extremely massive.
But, a lot you see is as you said, insta gear people, it's so depressing.
They should offer more as in good customer support or support actual musicians, artists who push it to the limits it can go, not these cookie cutter parasites.
But, yeah...
Anyway
Love your channel and content.
Best to you
While I appreciate an opinion piece, I won't lie, this comes across extremely biased and more of an ad for TE. Also the title asks the question. Why they are expensive yet I feel like you haven't really answered that. All I noticed was a brochure of their products and how you like them all and or have purchased them. It is absolutely ok to be a fan and wave the flag of your favorite brand, but it is also noteworthy to address the question which you have raised. Do they make interesting and creative gadgets? Yes. Does it change the fact that it's still over priced and their gear is faulty and customer service is horrid? No.
As I mentioned in the video they are a DESIGN company that happens to make synths which is the reason why they get away with charging outrageous prices.
Also “product review” in the title is why I reviewed all of their products and classified them as “free/affordable” all the way up to “extremely expensive” categories in the video.
Until recently the image and ‘feeling’ around TE was approachable for anyone at any level, pushing boundaries on so many different fronts creatively and encouraging people to be and enjoy creativity….
Now I show my op-1 (original) to people and no matter how much they do or don’t know they just flag ‘cost’, or turn their nose up to the logo rather than listen to me talk about creative daily use and inspiration.. I guess no wonder there is a sleuth of videos supporting TE coming up at the moment…
I know it’s a really horrible word, but I do mean it in the best way, they really need to tone and stop pursuing the ‘snobbery’… that’s now how people act when I try to show my OP-1 :(
Great video as usual and wonderful to open the discussion and dialogue I hope! X
Yeah there’s some truth to what you’re saying for sure
Op-z definitely bends over time……if it was a metal or carbon fiber case, I would be super happy. Even if it was more expensive.
Mine actually hasnt bent!
@@LiamKillen Like Yoda said “It will be……” It’s the nature of that type of plastic compared to a Korg Volca for instance. There is a lot of flaw in TE design🥲 Thanks for the video.
Hey Liam, love the channel
I used to want an op1, but since the release of that itty bitty mixer for an extreme price, and then they doubled down with the new op1 that.... uh.... is too much money
i now dont want an op1 at all, because i feel like they are like religious folks... you know begging for money lol
p.s. i thought the tx6 was 600 and thought that was waaaaaay overpriced hahaha, THAT THING IS 1200?!!!! what the fffff lolol
honestly, you could likely use the zoom h6 with an sp404mk2 and 5 more inputs and a bluetooth speaker and busk and get weird.... ANNNNND get everything stolen, and buy it again, and do it again without even crying (i mean.. of course you would cry if anything got stolen, but i feel like, 500 dollars being stolen would be sad, but like .... JUST that mixer being stolen (easily due to tiny size) would be heart breaking)
Lol
elitist and overrated toys
Check out pixel it’s free
they're widely available, and to anyone who wants one. The fact they're relatively expensive doesn't make them elitist.
Jacket or OP-1? Jacket, of course🤣🤣🤣
😂
"in my opinion theyre one of the most important synth (related) companies out there right now" - " they pretty much send me all of their synth related products in exchange for content"..... aaand thats all i need to know about this channel. see ya!
Just remember to be consistent! You’re basically cutting out most synth content here on TH-cam / the internet in general with that sentiment
@@LiamKillen all youtubers are parasites as far as im concerned. it used to be an honorable space filled with legitimate enthusiasts but now thats been replaced by charlatans trying to make money / buy me a coffee / patreon begging bowl culture..
Lost me at "they'll never be another company like TE." There are far better ideas out there synth wise, and trust that capitalism will produce a company to come along and capitalise on them. Oh, and TE is much more in vogue with content creators who like to show pretty things off that they are in the broader music making community.
They’re not a synth company.
@@LiamKillen I agree, the term "lifestyle brand" gets thrown around a lot. They are _also_ a synth company. Unsure we can skirt that.
TE is a weird company, and while I know people have done great work on their gear, and the Pocket Operators are cool, things like the $1500+ table, which is some aluminum and a piece of plywood that can't cost more than $50 to produce, makes it hard for me to take them seriously. It feels like their trolling us sometimes.
Yeah they've made some very interesting moves for sure lol.
Cuckoo sent me. 😉👍
Welcome
Ferrari in your pocket.
😏
Don duh is how you pronounce Dr. Donda West name.
Hence the “pardon my pronunciation” that I captioned in the video
Because they can, because our US money isn’t worth quite as much as it used to be, because you’re paying for the human interface between person and product. That’s the big thing. It’s not just the name or the materials. You can have a product with half the features of another product, but if the first one feels better to use and inspires creativity, then it can command a higher price. Everyone gets distracted by the fancy designs or the high quality, but that’s not the biggest part of it. It’s the things you can’t touch that ultimately define a TE product, and why they charge more for it. No different from people who for years have said “but Android can do this and iPhone can’t”. Sure, but the iPhone just works. It feels intuitive to use. A tractor does a lot more than an Audi GTRS, right? You can ultimately accomplish so much more with a tractor. However, they feel different to drive, don’t they? There’s a value to the intangible feeling of driving the GTRS compared to the tractor, yes? If you’re just trying to get from point to point quickly and easily, and feel good while you’re doing it, the GTRS is gonna win. This is all a given. What you don’t see is farmers flooding the Audi forums to complain that Audis cost too much money. That’d be kinda silly, right?
Yeah I like this take
@@LiamKillen Thanks man. I just think it’s something that gets overlooked a lot. We’re all tech guys here in the electronic music world, and so it’s easy to get distracted by spec sheets and feature lists and this and that. I do it too! However, there’s a reason that everyone from beginners to pros enjoy their products, it’s just that anything above a PO comes with a pro price tag.
Extreme prices for extreme snobs
It’s funny though I just bought the RMX-1000 for like 1000 and it does one thing- it’s strictly an FX unit. People say it’s expensive but they don’t completely shit over pioneer as a whole.
PF is included. (Poor Filter)
😏
Dont encourage them... Their prices are so out of touch not even close to being justifiable. Even as a design company I would say they're not that great, I mean those headphones look the cheapo headphones you get for free on flights. Most of their products look cheap imo
Yeah their prices be bonkers for sure.
Even synth fans are entitled and childish about things
True
Marketing and scamming. There. Done.
Lol
teenage engineering is just like apple in that regard. you overpay for stuff simply because of the brand. its silly af
There’s for sure an element of that
@@LiamKillen while we're both here id also like to ask you. which reverb pedal would you reccomend for digitone ambience/atmospheric? ive been eyeing bigsky and empress. thx for your input. love ur vids
With the difference that Apple actually does deliver quality and has a decent customer service.
is laggy as hell.