Stop playing... the fathers nakednesss is his wife. Levitcus 18 7- 8. Cannan was more than likely Hams son by Noah's wife. Else why would the bible mention Cannan twice before he was even born!! ? Genesis 9 "Ham was the father of Cannan." Is mentioned twice. If you understand the language of the text you would know that the bible us pointing us to something, called a Remez (in Hebrew). As bad as it may seem to some. The bible is written about real people and their experiences, good or bad!
So, his brothers covered up Noah’s wife, their mother? The detail in how they covered him up seems to imply this can be taken literally, at least that Noah was really passed out, drunk and naked, at some point in the story.
Noah was humiliated by the fact that ham publicly disgraced him by talking about what he had seen, instead of keeping it to himself and telling no one or simply covering his father up and telling no one, there would have not been an offence, for he would have respected Noah, humiliation can be an extremely powerful spiritual condition it can drive people to murder or suicide, it is clear that viewing one's nakedness was a great humiliation or offence because by the other two brothers walking backwards and covering Noah's nakedness, Noah being put the shame and humiliated by ham Noah cursed his son it also shows how the children can be affected by the deeds of the father.
@@deanfry879 exactly we're talking thousands of years ago, however, you find the same ignorance in different cultures today, you would be surprised of the things that you would say or do which would be of a great offence or humiliation, and the punishment that you would suffer because of it.
I’m not exactly sure how race plays into it. We found out my father’s haplo group which is traced back to Ham. That was from my sister doing the 23 and me DNA test. We also did the ancestry test. We are not from Africa that that we know of. We are pretty much right off the boat from England and Ireland and very white. So I don’t know how race plays into it and that doesn’t bother me, but the sin does bother me. I was so upset, knowing our family lineage was trace back to ham but I shouldn’t be surprised because there’s been generational sins in our family that are terrible. I just beg God for his mercy.
You have many assumptions. Like the general sin issue. Please look at what GotQuestions has to say on that. You seem upset based on your assumptions and theories. Please go back to the word and find hope in scripture. You are free in Christ. The past doesn't hold you in any form of bandage. Move forward my friend
Considering the anology to true crime, if we were to bring all the evidence into a court, is there enough evidence to get past reasonable doubt for any of the scenarios? If God deliberately left it that way, how many people could He judge for judging without justice? How long after the flood was this event? If all the people mentioned were alive at the time, it could be over a decade.
It's so interesting to speculate what happened there as it was written potentially 2400 to 2900 years ago. I guess we'll never know and that's as far as it goes. It's very interesting the language which was used throughout the Bible at that time which can suggest it was him having sex which Noah's wife, it seems like he may have done something to his father, the mention of alcohol is clearly important, something happens as the result of Noah's drunkness. I think one theory which isn't thrown out there much as is: Noah curses Cannan NOT God. The part before with Noah's curse is stating Noah was drunk, it makes a point of mentioning Noah was making bad decisions, maybe Noah was drunk on power with an entire vineyard showing he has plently, after the tent incident, it is then stated Noah's decision. Noah may potentially blamed the wrong person out of anger to get at Ham. I believe the passage maybe making the point that Noah's path at this point focused on intoxication led to him punishing an innocent out of anger. Once he turned to drunkenness, he is making bad judgements and the passion was wtitten to show the injustice on Kaanan due to Noah's bad decisions. Maybe we are meant to feel an injustice and to look at Noah's actions which led to that decision. We are meant to say "but why not curse Ham?!?" Then reflect on Noah's decisions. It's clearly a passage which is to show Noah in a bad light. That's my theory but we'll never be certain of the intention so no theory should never be presented as 'the truth'. Nobody can ever truly know. I think it's a commentary to show Noah makes bad decisions once he builds the vineyards and Kaanan is simply the victim of his bad decisions but we'll never know. You 3 did a fantastic job putting out the theories but stressing it can not and most likely will ever be understand the intention of the passage.
So the Holy Spirit through Paul tells us through the inspired Word of God that we are not even to use the gift of tongues unless there is an interpreter present, since God is not a God of confusion, and yet He's just going to leave passages like this sitting in the middle of the Bible like turds in a punch bowl? Carefully worded, conveying some inspired thought, but in the long run just completely inexplicable and that's "as far as it goes". That is quite the hot take.
Or you`re just simply over thinking the situation. He saw his fathers nakedness, and instead of covering up his fathers shame he went and told his brothers.
If the Bible is the Truth, and I believe it absolutely is, it leads me to think Ham did something to him. Because it says plainly Noah woke up and realized what Ham and DONE to him. Also, there was no one else on the planet so why would the outrage be so intense that Noah would curse a entire lineage of his son?
So just as the sins of Adam fell on his descendants the sin of ham fell on his descendants also therefore being extended and abused for generations and centuries to come when it should have actually died off when Canaan died that should have been the end of that punishment but instead it has passed on to today
Why does Noah point the curse to he's son's son? Noah was concerned about the kind of example he's son, as a leader or father, would show to he's descendants or kids, remember now Noah was the root of us all, and he's concern isn't on ham but the son learning from ham's Spirit, and accordingly he prophesied because the son follows the father, God had blessed the sons of noah Gen9:1 and so he couldn't be cursed, but because ham showed disrespect to Noah, he showed a weakness in Spirit, the same weakness Abraham showed on the sacrificial table that led to the enslavement. God can't bless those who don't approve of he's blessing, and for him to make a point, they go through what Canaanites went through, or Israel in Egypt.
Also we should concern about the key words in these verses, vineyard, wine, nakedness, why the relevancy in cursing, which I think is an outcome of dishonor. These key words require the help of the Holy Spirit to interpret them further. Though on my side I don't think the Holy Spirit would help me because am naked and in sin and calling for mercy like forever 😢. Am sorry Jesus
God blesses anyone He wants to, but if a person rejects God's blessing, then is that person not cursed by definition? There is nothing in the curse put on Canaan that negated any specifics in the blessing given to Ham, which Canaan would have inherited.
Simple, Noah was technically cursed by his son, so in return, he cursed his son's son, and all of his descendents...in return. Instead of Ham directly.?
Maybe, but by the time one cultivates a vineyard and ferments the wine, there would be enough time to recover from the worst of the emotions. There would also be a lot of evil to be glad not to see. To me, it is more likely Noah was celebrating his harvest.
In the words of Slim Pickens, "WHAT IN THE WIDE WORLD OF SPORTS IS GOIN ON HERE?" This is, hands down the most exegetically lazy discussion I have ever seen. Scripture reliably interprets scripture. Leviticus 19 gives context, as does 2 Samuel 16:22. Ham slept with Noah's wife -- his own mother-- who gave birth to Canaan -- who was cursed for that very reason. Not the most pleasant subject matter, obviously, but what reason is there to dance around it? Are the kids still awake or something?
It never says she was his biological mother. She is referred to as Noahs wife. Also I believe she was also passed out drunk or inebriated and he came in and forced himself on her
Yes the curse is not in the name the strength is in the name you are fearfully and wonderfully made and must follow your path you are not a Slave please study your word and follow yhwh do not succumb to the world view of the sins of Canaan you have the gift of redemption and you are not a Slave
i salute you guys for Not shying away from difficult understandings❤❤🙏🙏
Absolutely amazing video and great commentary one of the best I've heard on this particular section of the Bible
Good topic.🙏🏼💙👍🏼
Stop playing... the fathers nakednesss is his wife. Levitcus 18 7- 8. Cannan was more than likely Hams son by Noah's wife. Else why would the bible mention Cannan twice before he was even born!! ?
Genesis 9 "Ham was the father of Cannan." Is mentioned twice. If you understand the language of the text you would know that the bible us pointing us to something, called a Remez (in Hebrew). As bad as it may seem to some. The bible is written about real people and their experiences, good or bad!
I agree. I first heard heiser speak on this and yeah, what you said makes sense
So just because it is a euphemism in one place it is used means it is a euphemism every place it is used. Who made that rule?
So, his brothers covered up Noah’s wife, their mother? The detail in how they covered him up seems to imply this can be taken literally, at least that Noah was really passed out, drunk and naked, at some point in the story.
I tend to agree with Pastor Kevin as it’s the same thing that occurred to me.
The conversation is interesting and I'm learning alot, but I tend to be of the opinion, where the Bible is silent, I think it's best to stay silent.
Thanks as always for your ministry. Extremely helpful for me.
Noah was humiliated by the fact that ham publicly disgraced him by talking about what he had seen, instead of keeping it to himself and telling no one or simply covering his father up and telling no one, there would have not been an offence, for he would have respected Noah, humiliation can be an extremely powerful spiritual condition it can drive people to murder or suicide, it is clear that viewing one's nakedness was a great humiliation or offence because by the other two brothers walking backwards and covering Noah's nakedness, Noah being put the shame and humiliated by ham Noah cursed his son it also shows how the children can be affected by the deeds of the father.
Maybe people of that time thought more seriously about nakedness than we do today.
@@deanfry879 exactly we're talking thousands of years ago, however, you find the same ignorance in different cultures today, you would be surprised of the things that you would say or do which would be of a great offence or humiliation, and the punishment that you would suffer because of it.
I’m not exactly sure how race plays into it. We found out my father’s haplo group which is traced back to Ham. That was from my sister doing the 23 and me DNA test. We also did the ancestry test. We are not from Africa that that we know of. We are pretty much right off the boat from England and Ireland and very white. So I don’t know how race plays into it and that doesn’t bother me, but the sin does bother me. I was so upset, knowing our family lineage was trace back to ham but I shouldn’t be surprised because there’s been generational sins in our family that are terrible. I just beg God for his mercy.
You have many assumptions. Like the general sin issue. Please look at what GotQuestions has to say on that.
You seem upset based on your assumptions and theories.
Please go back to the word and find hope in scripture. You are free in Christ. The past doesn't hold you in any form of bandage. Move forward my friend
*generational sins
Africa is not white
✅ interesting video
Considering the anology to true crime, if we were to bring all the evidence into a court, is there enough evidence to get past reasonable doubt for any of the scenarios? If God deliberately left it that way, how many people could He judge for judging without justice?
How long after the flood was this event? If all the people mentioned were alive at the time, it could be over a decade.
It's so interesting to speculate what happened there as it was written potentially 2400 to 2900 years ago. I guess we'll never know and that's as far as it goes. It's very interesting the language which was used throughout the Bible at that time which can suggest it was him having sex which Noah's wife, it seems like he may have done something to his father, the mention of alcohol is clearly important, something happens as the result of Noah's drunkness. I think one theory which isn't thrown out there much as is: Noah curses Cannan NOT God. The part before with Noah's curse is stating Noah was drunk, it makes a point of mentioning Noah was making bad decisions, maybe Noah was drunk on power with an entire vineyard showing he has plently, after the tent incident, it is then stated Noah's decision. Noah may potentially blamed the wrong person out of anger to get at Ham. I believe the passage maybe making the point that Noah's path at this point focused on intoxication led to him punishing an innocent out of anger. Once he turned to drunkenness, he is making bad judgements and the passion was wtitten to show the injustice on Kaanan due to Noah's bad decisions. Maybe we are meant to feel an injustice and to look at Noah's actions which led to that decision. We are meant to say "but why not curse Ham?!?" Then reflect on Noah's decisions. It's clearly a passage which is to show Noah in a bad light. That's my theory but we'll never be certain of the intention so no theory should never be presented as 'the truth'. Nobody can ever truly know. I think it's a commentary to show Noah makes bad decisions once he builds the vineyards and Kaanan is simply the victim of his bad decisions but we'll never know. You 3 did a fantastic job putting out the theories but stressing it can not and most likely will ever be understand the intention of the passage.
So the Holy Spirit through Paul tells us through the inspired Word of God that we are not even to use the gift of tongues unless there is an interpreter present, since God is not a God of confusion, and yet He's just going to leave passages like this sitting in the middle of the Bible like turds in a punch bowl? Carefully worded, conveying some inspired thought, but in the long run just completely inexplicable and that's "as far as it goes". That is quite the hot take.
Or you`re just simply over thinking the situation. He saw his fathers nakedness, and instead of covering up his fathers shame he went and told his brothers.
If the Bible is the Truth, and I believe it absolutely is, it leads me to think Ham did something to him. Because it says plainly Noah woke up and realized what Ham and DONE to him. Also, there was no one else on the planet so why would the outrage be so intense that Noah would curse a entire lineage of his son?
That was a mouth full.
So just as the sins of Adam fell on his descendants the sin of ham fell on his descendants also therefore being extended and abused for generations and centuries to come when it should have actually died off when Canaan died that should have been the end of that punishment but instead it has passed on to today
Why does Noah point the curse to he's son's son? Noah was concerned about the kind of example he's son, as a leader or father, would show to he's descendants or kids, remember now Noah was the root of us all, and he's concern isn't on ham but the son learning from ham's Spirit, and accordingly he prophesied because the son follows the father, God had blessed the sons of noah Gen9:1 and so he couldn't be cursed, but because ham showed disrespect to Noah, he showed a weakness in Spirit, the same weakness Abraham showed on the sacrificial table that led to the enslavement. God can't bless those who don't approve of he's blessing, and for him to make a point, they go through what Canaanites went through, or Israel in Egypt.
Also we should concern about the key words in these verses, vineyard, wine, nakedness, why the relevancy in cursing, which I think is an outcome of dishonor. These key words require the help of the Holy Spirit to interpret them further. Though on my side I don't think the Holy Spirit would help me because am naked and in sin and calling for mercy like forever 😢. Am sorry Jesus
God blesses anyone He wants to, but if a person rejects God's blessing, then is that person not cursed by definition? There is nothing in the curse put on Canaan that negated any specifics in the blessing given to Ham, which Canaan would have inherited.
@@harveywabbit9541 I do not see any references to Canaan or to winter in that verse, and it talks about five months.
Simple, Noah was technically cursed by his son, so in return, he cursed his son's son, and all of his descendents...in return.
Instead of Ham directly.?
After dealing with a huge flood meant to wipe out everyone and everything, knocking back a few wine glasses doesn't seem far fetched.
Maybe, but by the time one cultivates a vineyard and ferments the wine, there would be enough time to recover from the worst of the emotions. There would also be a lot of evil to be glad not to see. To me, it is more likely Noah was celebrating his harvest.
What about the "she bears"?
Was Thinking Of The Same Account! "Mocking"
In the words of Slim Pickens, "WHAT IN THE WIDE WORLD OF SPORTS IS GOIN ON HERE?" This is, hands down the most exegetically lazy discussion I have ever seen. Scripture reliably interprets scripture. Leviticus 19 gives context, as does 2 Samuel 16:22. Ham slept with Noah's wife -- his own mother-- who gave birth to Canaan -- who was cursed for that very reason. Not the most pleasant subject matter, obviously, but what reason is there to dance around it? Are the kids still awake or something?
It never says she was his biological mother. She is referred to as Noahs wife. Also I believe she was also passed out drunk or inebriated and he came in and forced himself on her
Is it possible to be a good Jewish boy if your name is Ham?
Yes the curse is not in the name the strength is in the name you are fearfully and wonderfully made and must follow your path you are not a Slave please study your word and follow yhwh do not succumb to the world view of the sins of Canaan you have the gift of redemption and you are not a Slave
Ham in Hebrew isn't English.
Noah was prophesying in regards to Ham based on Hams action..he was merely stating the curse on Ham's descendants brought on by Ham's action is all