Luthier and Instructor, Robert O'Brien, along with luthier Alan Dunwell, shows how to construct a double top or composite top guitar soundboard. Part one of two.
@OBrienGuitars Thanks Robbie. I was just confused where the weight was being saved if almost the same amount of spruce was being used. But I suppose the bracing would factor into ore weight saved as well. I appreciate the videos!
@danbombliss The top in this video was for a steel string guitar. Most folks doing double tops for classicals are going thinner than what I show in the videos.
Very informative video about how to make a double top guitar. I have had 2 German made double tops in my workshop the past few weeks that needed various repairs, not related to the double top construction. I have had a chance to examine both guitars inside and outside. I have played both guitars as well. I am a traditional builder of classical guitars. That said, I do experiment A LOT. I have resisted building double top guitars as I looked at them as a waste of extra tone wood, and the expense of buying other materials like Nomex, a vacuum press, as well as extra hours of labor. For me, the verdict of quality of sound from these high end German double top guitars is still out. I am not yet convinced. However, I am finding that the marketplace is demanding that I make double top guitars, so I will start making them. This video and part 2 of this video have been very helpful to me in understanding some of the construction principles of building double top Nomex guitars. Thanks to Robbie and Alan for sharing this information! Much appreciated.
@danbombliss In some cases the double tops are thicker than normal tops. However, it is a totally different ballgame and seems to work. You can go just as thin as regular tops when making composite tops too. Good luck.
@danbombliss ad to scratch my head a couple of times too about that very issue. I recently had a student make a double top that came in at 3.5mm thick. It sounded awesome!!! There is more going on than just the total thickness. Bracing has a big bearing in this too. Let me know how it goes.
@OBrienGuitars I understand it's for a steel string. The only part I'm confused by is a regular steel string top is only about .120", for solid spruce. The double top here is a total of .160", with a total of .100" of solid spruce, plus the skin in the middle. I did come across Alan Dunwell's website and he has some information on there, where both of his skins are .040" with a .060" center. I'm not trying to find any contridictions, just making sure I get my info correct before I try it
@OBrienGuitars Do you have any advice or know of any online resources for bracing information on double tops? Because I have not found any information on the topic, I was going to go with the standard bracing, but thinned out a bit.
do you know if anyone has ever applied this technique to a violin ? if not.. how would would it be different ? How do you get the tap tones.. I'm assuming it would have to be tuned after its connected ? because wouldn't the pitch change once you put it together ?
Hi... regarding double top bracing, I am being inspired by the Ovation Adamas bracing. That consists of a fan with variable length members with a single lateral >unbonded to the braces
Great videos, use to work in a traditional way but i´m reading about this and some guitar players my friends talk about me do a double top.. well your video shows the techniques very well explained... great ;) I have only a question, the classical guitars use to be thinner can you tell me if you have some idea , or have you done some, of the measures of the woods? of course can be changes but i wish to have something to start and in the future do my modifications if needed . Once time more thank you a lot for your videos JM
+José Marques José - you can keep a double top as thing as a traditional top if you like. A good rule of thumb is to make the sandwiched parts come in about 2.5mm or so. Good luck. The video you just saw was for a steel string guitar.
thank you very much i aprecciated. PLease i have others important questions i hope you help me. I need to know in milimeters what thick is the internal and external top. Also I purchased the NOmex (with 1/8 ") I need to know if into the construction process i have to reduce the thick of nomex too. if so what is the total thick with the 2 tops and nomex as final proccess. thanks
I've got a question... Unless I'm missing something the tally for the 3 sections comes out to .160". .060" skin+ .060" Nomex+ .040" Skin. What's the final thickness for use of this top? Which skin gets the brute of the material taken off? .100" of spruce plus the nomex seems as if it would defeat the purpose. I really appreciate the video, it's great information. I'm just missing something here is all. Thanks again for another vib, Robbie.
I guess it's not just about saving weight but increasing stiffness for the same weight. You increase the thickness by 1.5x then the relative stiffness increases by the cube of the multiple ie 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 which equates to approx 3.4x stiffer
Hi Robert, how do I tell if the guitar I bought is truly a double top? It's not Nomex, but I think two thin pieces together. How do I tell if there are really two thin pieces together?
WHY is everyone giving away trade secrets for free ? What good does this video for he and the rest of luthiers ? Yeah, teach everybody out there who has tools and a shop how to copy this craft and create more competition for yourselves; maybe even outdo you ! Same for all the performers. Why bother to schlep to a concert hall anymore or even buy a CD ? You can watch them all for free on TH-cam. and forum videos.....I don't have a shop, but I have a friend who does........
Mark, lutherie, like any other talent, is a craft that is developed over many years, perhaps a lifetime. I have been down this road and know first hand the struggles and dues that must be paid while in pursuit of making a better guitar. Having this knowledge gives me the peace of mind that anyone watching my videos will have to not only take the first steps of this journey but continue down this road for many years to arrive where I have arrived with the knowledge I have been able to obtain. I have been blessed with information. Some of it I fought hard for and some of it was passed to me from others willing to share. If you or anyone else benefits from this information and can build a better mousetrap then congratulations but don't forget to pay it forward.
Sorry. Doesn't cut it . I still say, why show ANYONE how you do it ! ! ? These are TRADE secrets. Or is it that it's a subversive way of advertising your services , knowing most will never cut into your profits anyway ?
Thank you for these profound explanations!
@OBrienGuitars Thanks Robbie. I was just confused where the weight was being saved if almost the same amount of spruce was being used. But I suppose the bracing would factor into ore weight saved as well.
I appreciate the videos!
Hi,thank you for this tips!
Have you also for a Doubleback guitar video how to build it?
Thank you
@danbombliss Standard bracing thinned a bit is a good starting point. I know of no online resource for this.
@danbombliss The top in this video was for a steel string guitar. Most folks doing double tops for classicals are going thinner than what I show in the videos.
Very informative video about how to make a double top guitar. I have had 2 German made double tops in my workshop the past few weeks that needed various repairs, not related to the double top construction. I have had a chance to examine both guitars inside and outside. I have played both guitars as well. I am a traditional builder of classical guitars. That said, I do experiment A LOT. I have resisted building double top guitars as I looked at them as a waste of extra tone wood, and the expense of buying other materials like Nomex, a vacuum press, as well as extra hours of labor. For me, the verdict of quality of sound from these high end German double top guitars is still out. I am not yet convinced. However, I am finding that the marketplace is demanding that I make double top guitars, so I will start making them. This video and part 2 of this video have been very helpful to me in understanding some of the construction principles of building double top Nomex guitars. Thanks to Robbie and Alan for sharing this information! Much appreciated.
Glad you found the information useful. Thanks for watching.
@danbombliss In some cases the double tops are thicker than normal tops. However, it is a totally different ballgame and seems to work. You can go just as thin as regular tops when making composite tops too. Good luck.
Thanks a million
@danbombliss ad to scratch my head a couple of times too about that very issue. I recently had a student make a double top that came in at 3.5mm thick. It sounded awesome!!! There is more going on than just the total thickness. Bracing has a big bearing in this too. Let me know how it goes.
very cool! Technology meets tradition.
@OBrienGuitars I understand it's for a steel string. The only part I'm confused by is a regular steel string top is only about .120", for solid spruce. The double top here is a total of .160", with a total of .100" of solid spruce, plus the skin in the middle. I did come across Alan Dunwell's website and he has some information on there, where both of his skins are .040" with a .060" center.
I'm not trying to find any contridictions, just making sure I get my info correct before I try it
@OBrienGuitars Do you have any advice or know of any online resources for bracing information on double tops? Because I have not found any information on the topic, I was going to go with the standard bracing, but thinned out a bit.
hi, from where to buy the nomex please?
do you know if anyone has ever applied this technique to a violin ? if not.. how would would it be different ? How do you get the tap tones.. I'm assuming it would have to be tuned after its connected ? because wouldn't the pitch change once you put it together ?
Hi... regarding double top bracing, I am being inspired by the Ovation Adamas bracing. That consists of a fan with variable length members with a single lateral >unbonded to the braces
Hi. How to write German makers name to see their web site please.
Thanks
Great videos, use to work in a traditional way but i´m reading about this and some guitar players my friends talk about me do a double top.. well your video shows the techniques very well explained... great ;)
I have only a question, the classical guitars use to be thinner can you tell me if you have some idea , or have you done some, of the measures of the woods? of course can be changes but i wish to have something to start and in the future do my modifications if needed .
Once time more thank you a lot for your videos
JM
+José Marques José - you can keep a double top as thing as a traditional top if you like. A good rule of thumb is to make the sandwiched parts come in about 2.5mm or so. Good luck. The video you just saw was for a steel string guitar.
great... thank you Robbie
hello. Thanks for the videoI is great. Please can you help me with the glue used for nomex. thanks
You can use an epoxy like in the video or some folks even use polyurethane glue.
thank you very much i aprecciated. PLease i have others important questions i hope you help me. I need to know in milimeters what thick is the internal and external top. Also I purchased the NOmex (with 1/8 ") I need to know if into the construction process i have to reduce the thick of nomex too. if so what is the total thick with the 2 tops and nomex as final proccess.
thanks
@micheloderso
Sie könnten versuchen, Schere. Wenn es funktioniert lass es mich wissen.
Warum schneidet man das "nomax" nicht mit einer Schere aus nachdem man die Konturen aufgezeichnet hat?
I've got a question... Unless I'm missing something the tally for the 3 sections comes out to .160". .060" skin+ .060" Nomex+ .040" Skin.
What's the final thickness for use of this top? Which skin gets the brute of the material taken off? .100" of spruce plus the nomex seems as if it would defeat the purpose.
I really appreciate the video, it's great information. I'm just missing something here is all.
Thanks again for another vib, Robbie.
I guess it's not just about saving weight but increasing stiffness for the same weight. You increase the thickness by 1.5x then the relative stiffness increases by the cube of the multiple ie 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 which equates to approx 3.4x stiffer
Hi Robert, how do I tell if the guitar I bought is truly a double top? It's not Nomex, but I think two thin pieces together. How do I tell if there are really two thin pieces together?
Sometimes it is really hard to tell. Look on the inside and see if the grain matches the outside of the top. You could also ask the maker.
Ikea door construction nice ;D
Boa noite onde posso comprar essa tela de nomex eu não acho nem um cite que fala a respeito
Eu compro na LMI. www.lmii.com/nomex/3591-nomex-14-honeycomb-080-sheet.html
@@OBrienGuitars obrigado amigo
Gernot Wagner and Mathias Dammann
Link to part 2... th-cam.com/video/hcXZRhJFu1M/w-d-xo.html
WHY is everyone giving away trade secrets for free ? What good does this video for he and the rest of luthiers ? Yeah, teach everybody out there who has tools and a shop how to copy this craft and create more competition for yourselves; maybe even outdo you ! Same for all the performers. Why bother to schlep to a concert hall anymore or even buy a CD ? You can watch them all for free on TH-cam. and forum videos.....I don't have a shop, but I have a friend who does........
Mark, lutherie, like any other talent, is a craft that is developed over many years, perhaps a lifetime. I have been down this road and know first hand the struggles and dues that must be paid while in pursuit of making a better guitar. Having this knowledge gives me the peace of mind that anyone watching my videos will have to not only take the first steps of this journey but continue down this road for many years to arrive where I have arrived with the knowledge I have been able to obtain. I have been blessed with information. Some of it I fought hard for and some of it was passed to me from others willing to share. If you or anyone else benefits from this information and can build a better mousetrap then congratulations but don't forget to pay it forward.
Sorry. Doesn't cut it . I still say, why show ANYONE how you do it ! ! ? These are TRADE secrets. Or is it that it's a subversive way of advertising your services , knowing most will never cut into your profits anyway ?
Mark if it was hidden as you are wanting it to be, Then your friend would not be building guitars. He would have never known where to start.