I did Red Flag too. Our C-130s were assigned to sneak past the Eagle-jets at low level and airdrop supplies to friendly forces behind enemy lines. They didn't find us until we were on the edge of the exercise area on our way out. Mission achieved. Ergo, the Herk is better at air combat than the F-15. ;)
thats AWACS fault. and as for GCI, if they were tasked that area, not surprising. --former tps75 operator. the eagle is still probably the best go to war air superiority fighter. f22 has too many reliability issues.
@@ciaran7780 there are limits to what the radar can see. In the real world it's unlikely that the plane will be within 150 or even 200 miles from the nearest sa10 or 21 could be located. Which means there will be terrain created blind spots.
The F-22 v Balloon kill is an incredible piece of one-up manship. It tells China three things: 1:The US will defend its airspace from even the slightest threat. 2:US "heat seeking" AIM-9X missiles do not require a heat source to track. As balloons are acclimated to ambient temp. At that altitude, the balloon was sub freezing. 3:All of Chinas efforts to hack and steal Lockheeds data and intellectual property on the F-22/F-35. And their subsequent J-20 development is null and void. (Because the F-35 can track threats from over 800NM, which is several MOA below the horizon, using thermal sensors. This was in the news at the same time as the Balloon. And it can fire AIM-9X "heat seeking" missiles that are so sensitive, they can smash a frozen balloon, let alone an afterburner equipped stealth jet. Even an ordinary jet skin surface heats up due to friction at cruise speed). The next layers of brilliance is the general public is outraged that this balloon was allowed to drift entirely across the country after crossing into Montana airspace, all the way to DC. Then was shot down with an expensive missile. By an expensive jet that has never seen real combat. Average joe thinks this is an embarrassment. But NORAD nullified the balloons ability to gather and transmit data, while also gathering their own intel about the systems capability, since it was actively trying to transmit information back to China. Allowing ground based receivers to determine what intel it was gathering. While allowing it to drift across the continent on national TV. A total embarrassment to China. And a great publicity stunt to gin more Military support and funding for a potential (someday maybe) war in the South China Sea in aid of Taiwan.
@@TheJustinJit took us forever to get a fighter in the air.. and it is an embarrassment because the "Most Dominate Air Superiority" Jet only killed a balloon while others actually saw combat and proved its worthiness. If the J-20 or Su-57 had done the same, the reaction will be the same and they'll become a laughing stock. I understand if the base had an active F-22 or one was nearby but you can easily use an F-15 and 16 to take down a simple balloon. It's not a total embarrassment to China, because they did it over and over to see how quick the response time is so they can get a good idea on how the US will respond to their invasion on Taiwan. China even stuck a drone into Japan and pinpoint its helicopter carrier which Japan got scared. If you look on the map, you can see mock ups of US jets in the desert where they tested the carrier model. Why do you think they haven't sent more? They learned and are now implementing tactics.
We used to regularly get the first shot on Raptors with the JHMCS and 9X (Rhino) post-merge. They didn’t have a HOBS capability at the time. Fox 2, continue. Then, 9/10 times, you were immediately defensive 😂 Good luck talking sense into the Jane’s nerds, though. Nothing quite like a bunch of internet warriors telling me what my jet can and cannot do, all with UNCLAS, open source information and zero time in [any] seat.
HOBS is pretty cool, seems like there's really no beating it if your aircraft isn't similarly-equipped, BUT obviously a merge is a situation a Raptor driver ideally never gets into in the first place. I'm jealous that you got to see the initial turn though, must have been kinda terrifying seeing how quickly that nose comes around at you.
Ok but hear me out… I’ve got some advice for MLB pitchers and NFL GMs as well. I’ve also sat in a old f-18 when I was 6 at an air show thank you very much. No “seat time”
Just imagining you merging with a Raptor, getting a shot off, and then immediately have to go defense because the Raptor has such an insane turn rate and can essentially turn its nose on demand.
Its sad but also good that the F22 was never able to see any air to air combat. Its like creating the ultimate hyper car that you dont get to race because it is 10 times the price with nothing on earth that can give it a competition. We haven’t fought an enemy with any sort of air force since before the F22’s development
@@stanislavkostarnov2157the risk of losing f22 to the enemy hands far outweigh the benefits of testing it. F22 is tested all the time in stimulated fight against other us aircrafts, that's more then enough for now. Losing F22 to Russia would undermine decades and billions worth of intelligence loss, they can reverse engineer everything
I think people have stopped thinking analytically and often don't ask or think about context. Like "4 out of 5 dentists choose Crest" they leave out 4 out of 5 dentists in the study work for Crest.
OK, maybe for that exercise it posted that record. However, if you go to Nellis Air Force Base and take a look at the overall training record they have for the F-22A there have been kills scored against it from a German Euro Fighter Typhoon, an F/A-18 Super Hornet (gun kill), numerous times Op For F-16 Aggressor aircraft were able to catch it by surprise, there is even a picture floating around of an A-10C that has an F-22A painted on his fuselage with the rest of us kill sorties. Of course these are training kills And even the F-15 that both a real world combat record of zero losses has quite a few losses in training. People fail to understand is they do things to train these F-22 pilots by purposely putting them in real bad scenarios because as we have come to figure out the world is not a perfect or ideal place and fights. Don’t always happen your terms.. I still think the Germans boasting about the euro fighter typhoon kill is kind of funny because they were fighting Raptors that were still carrying their drop tanks. They were not clean.
Back in my misspent youth as a gubmint apparatchik we used to have same sort of problem with sponsors and funding agents from the mighty P-Gon, so it's not limited to keyboard warriors on the intertubers, sadly. It's really hard to explain the differences between training, experimentation, and free play, and the last is extremely rare. In fact we largely stopped going to 'exercises' (circa 2019) in spite of the opportunity for greater visibility and potential cost savings, because said exercises were too heavily scripted (due to training and/or 'performance anxiety' in big-ticket programs) because us RDT&E people couldn't get any uncertainty into the schedule. We found it better for productivity and results to just pay the price for running our own lower-visibility 'field experiments' where we could let loose our engineers and military advisers to 'think hinky' about this system or that. Anyway, great stuff as always.
Back in the day, tomcats used to fly as red air and behave like MIG 23s, they would simulate their flight characteristics and behaviors in order to give their fellow tomcat pilots realistic simulation of an enemy
Man, the F22 Pilot will have to mess up to lose , You Supercruise at 1.7,Stealth Radar return smaller than F-35, With Aesa Radars & E-3 AWACS how many advantages do you need? **Example- The poor Iranian F-4 Fighter who the Pilots didn’t even Know The F-22 was there,told you should really go home embarrassingly 😳
Thank you Sir! As usual, you provide an awesome answer, supporting documentations, and a "behind the curtain" look at the exercises. Love the channel! My respect!
TBH the only thing that matters is being ready for the actual fight no matter what you fly, and most people if given the choice hope that irl fight never has to happen.
Good morning, Mover. Excellent video. Are you enjoying our 100°+ temperatures and high humidity? Yeah, me either. Stay safe, hugs and pets to Miss Luna.🐾🥰🐾
In actual combat thus far (Iran still has a few F-14s): “F-15 has an air-to-air record of 104 and 0. That's better than the F-16 (76-1), the F-14 Tomcat (135-4)”. F-22 is the best fighter jet ever made until the US 6th Gen comes out. However, thus far only real “combat” is against a ballon.
This reminds me of jui jitsu when people say “oh yeah I tapped that guy out during sparring”. Everyone looks down on that guy, because who cares who got tapped out during sparring? That’s literally where you’re meant to utilize tapping out. Gloat about competition, not about training.
Well, wouldn't it be interesting to set up a trial where the two meet with symmetric objectives and all out (within some bounds for safety)? I don't think it'd be entirely a "waste of gas", given how expensive these programs are and the lack of any actual outcome data? Of course, there's also a reason why not only despite, but because certain medications are horribly expensive, there are studies that show them to work, but often no studies running them directly against a control group with generic medications for the same condition.
In actual aviation combat anything can happen.... you train to develop situational awareness... when it comes down to act or react you have mere seconds
I saw a video of Sindwinder in DCS, and I have a question for a ex fighter pilot, regarding the use of Antiradiotion missels against Air targets instead of ground targets, when ur not able to see the enemy on your radar, but get locked yourself. Is there a world where this could be used as a last resort? Or is it just outright useless.
A B-52 tailgun radar painted a F-4G during desert storm and thinking it was a ground radar the WSO fired an anti-radiation missile. It shredded the B-52s tail but it landed and was dubbed "In HARM's Way".
@ChucksSEADnDEAD that is truly unlucky for the B-52. But pretty interesting things like that can happen. A combination of all sensoretyps in one missile would probably be intresting to see, that also slows down and starts it burners again when requiring. I mean Imagen a missle that can be guided have its on radar, has its own visuel sensors not only infrared to the see the jet and use theire ow radar and Jamming against them too. That stuff would be really hard to avoid. But I am not sure of a combination of HRAM, optical guided, radarguided and infrared missals even exist. Would be wild if it dose
If your platform is undefeated in a TRAINING environment then you’re not training right. In training you keep pushing the platform into more and more disadvantageous situations until it loses, that way you find where the true limits are and it puts you in a better position to utilize them properly in real life.
Very nice. I helped out the TRACOR F-86 pilot when I was Ammo up at Elmendorf AFB, AK (93-97) with chaff out of bad chaff sticks to get a F-15C "kill" during DACT training. He would make chaff packs out of poptart packs with a bit of tape. He'd place them in his air brakes. Was 1 time use but it got him a few "kills". It gave the training pilots something to learn,so not to discount older enemy aircraft.
Exercise Pitch Black 2024 is a week away from kicking off in Australia. No doubt an interesting testing experience for machines and crews with the French bringing the Rafale, the Spanish and Germans bringing the Typhoons the Italian's too and the F-35, the Singaporeans, South Koreans, Indonesians bringing various Falcons and Eagles, the Thai's with the Grippen. Not to forget the Indians with the Flanker and of course the US with the F-35B and the F-22. And the home team with F-35A, F-18F and the F-18G.
Contact Mathew Renbarger who flies the F-1 against F-22s out of Luke AFB. He's a former F-22 and F-35 USAF pilot. You should interview him about dogfighting. He works for AATC and dogfights against F-35 student pilots at Luke every work day.
Our F/A-18C pilots of VFA83 beat fresh F-22 pilots in training. Nothing to brag against either aircraft, but to acknowledge new pilots learned tactics from us. When they are allowed to keep their distance with speed, then the scenario changes.
Afaik the original Gripen at Red Flag reports were that the Gripens (as Red side) just avoided the Raptors et al., while carrying out their assigned missions. So no "kills" either way. The accomplishment was to know enough about the location of the Raports to give them a wide berth. (This was 2006, 2007 or so. Seems Sweden hasn't been invited back since anyway.)
21y 7m retired US Army. It is the same thing on the ground. Have deployed, been there, got the t-shirt. Both Conus and OConus have also played profession OpFor and BluFor. Have taken out SF types, and have had fresh out of AIT FNGs take me out. It is all about training to the mission and/or task. Everyone is human, humans' make mistakes. Better to make the mistake in training and not wherever you may be going. None of those training results translates into one countries/nations soldiers being more high-speed than the other.
Absolutely sure that the pilot killed in an F22 won't forget being shot down by a T38 wont forget it and learnt alot more than they probably did from other days they probably had to buy alot of beer/cake too! Even beyond what was said in this video there's an awful lot more to what makes an aircraft "good" than just how it perfoms in a relatively idealised setting of an exercise. Does it break all the time? Is it easy to fix when it breaks (no point having a fighter if it can't fly) how expensive is it to operate and fix (no point having a fighter if you can't afford it or can afford lots more of another one), how efficient is it on fuel (all of that fuel needs to be brought to theatre by ships, tankers etc), nowadays how good is it at sharing information and working with other elements within the battlespace (you might not be the best fighter but if you can get enemy aircraft shot down by someone else what matters is the endgame).
People should understand by now that it's NOT the weapon that makes the man, but the MAN that makes the WEAPON.
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I do not know abpout kill ratio in training but jesus I like so much seeing agressors F-15 and F-16 wih these color schemes (it is so sad the normal grey one) :) :)
Mover, would you please answer a question for me. Years back, I flew in the F-100F many times, but not as a pilot. The IP always told me to keep the O2 mask on during take off and while in flight, in case of an IFE. I see many movies were the pilots in fighters don't have them fully attached. Who's right? (My IP had over 4,000 hrs of "Hun." time.
In the movies they often remove the masks because it makes it easier to recognize who is who and get better quality audio. Trying to capture any facial expressions and emotions is also much harder with a mask on. Same with why they always have their visors up or they are always clear (except for bad guys!). Real world you definitely want your mask on. Oxygen, radio/intercom, protection during ejection are the big reasons that come to mind.
Something to note as well is that the Gripens main competitor for overseas sales as a budget option is the F-16 The Gripen is performing poorly in terms of foreign sales so they market heavily against the F-16 to try and drum up sales for the plane It also loses out heavily against the F-35 and the F-18 as well I don’t think anyone’s picked the Gripen over the F-35 as of yet and while it seems the super Hornet tends to get preference over the Gripen I don’t think anyone is really all that interested in either The one thing that’s curious to me though is that while the F-35 is an amazing plant especially for the money having it as your only fighter does leave holes in your defensiveness because it simply lacks capacity and it’s extremely important in a BVR fight Trees the plane is stealth but in an engagement against bigger planes it just can’t stay in the fight as long and that’s extremely detrimental in a BVR fight You can’t rely upon stealth to get in close to get kills It’s a very dangerous thing to do and is really against modern fighter doctrine Ofc I’m not in the military and don’t know everything Maybe they have an ace that we don’t know about with the F-35 but the F-16 in Ukraine faces a similar problem without the benefits of stealth Training can definitely fill in the gaps because Russian training is abysmal unless they’ve stepped up their game in recent years since the war started They just don’t invest as much in their pilots training and don’t give them enough flight hours to be competitive but again that could have changed recently and would make sense of it did
Except your just making uneducated assumptions. In BVR your gonna have to get closer to get a kill that just simple missile employment mindset. Nvm the fact that an F-35 in stealth config carries the same amount of missiles as an Air to Air Config F-16 and Gripen C/E as they both need to carry fuel tanks since both fighters simply doesnt have the endurance to loiter for an amount of time using internal fuel alone. If the F-35 needs more AAM's she could go beast mode allowing her to carry up to 14 AAM or 16 if we include the sidekick upgrade and back up her reduced stealth with her extensive electronic warfare capability.
Gripen is a great aircraft but its particular strengths are things that often matter alot in real warfare but don't show up in politicans minds - it's designed to be maintained by conscripts with minimal training, it has great senors and is focused on netowrk centric warfare (but that requires you to have the network for it to work with). Also it's made by Sweden, Sweden is still pretty much neutral, buying fighter jets from Sweden makes you friends in Sweden which most countries don't really care about. Buying US jets makes you friends with the US which is much more significant. Then there's the security of supply - not always guaranteed that the US wont cut off supplies to a country that's attacked but probably sweden is more likely to. Then there's the strengths of the F35 - much lower RCS and similarly great sensors and network capability (but more expensive). I am a bit surprised that the Grippen hasn't sold well in developing countries - it does seem kind of like a modern version of the Mirages, but perhaps those countries have been going for the Rafale. It's worth noting that the Viggen didn't sell well either and neither do British designs.
@@tomriley5790 well, you said it.. It’s not just the plane but the country that sells it The F-16 has been around for a long time and is still being produces which means availability of parts and munitions which are standardized btw for the long term While I agree that politicians don’t know what they’re doing the people that run their military hopefully do and are the ones testing the planes and considering all the ins and outs of the purchase
The reason why American fighter jets win so many contracts over smaller competitors, like Saab Gripen, is that financial muscle of the US. Smaller counties can’t compete with the counter offers that the US can make, like industrial investments and political gains etc. Saab has managed that in Brazil, by letting the South Americans build the aircraft themselves but usually its companies like Lockheed Martin that wins the bidding on pure financial muscle. I recon it will be slightly different now that Sweden is in NATO.
Thanks for the explanation on training to prevent a kill of our pilots. I agree it’s more about the ability of the pilot at a given time to handle the battle mission. The F22 is a great plane and I believe the stealth and long range detection ability gives it an advantage. Yet there is a report out about one F22 against multiple F15’s with F22 pilots flying the F15’s (knowing the ability of the F22 is my take away) but the F22 won all simulated missions. At Airshows they say the F22 only shows certain features of the plane and it has more capabilities. Some reports say how close the F22 can get to enemy, before the other planes see it on radar. I think some of the reports have merit to a degree, but as you say training is what protects the pilot.
It's standard practice to not reveal the full capabilities of military hardware, tactics and strategies. You only go all out when it truly matters, at all other times you hold back. This is true for all advanced militaries in the world. Anything else is plain foolish.
I did Red Flag too. Our C-130s were assigned to sneak past the Eagle-jets at low level and airdrop supplies to friendly forces behind enemy lines. They didn't find us until we were on the edge of the exercise area on our way out. Mission achieved.
Ergo, the Herk is better at air combat than the F-15. ;)
thats AWACS fault. and as for GCI, if they were tasked that area, not surprising. --former tps75 operator.
the eagle is still probably the best go to war air superiority fighter. f22 has too many reliability issues.
Success
@@ciaran7780 there are limits to what the radar can see. In the real world it's unlikely that the plane will be within 150 or even 200 miles from the nearest sa10 or 21 could be located. Which means there will be terrain created blind spots.
You could fit a lot of amrams and a cwis or two in a herc😂
@@ciaran7780 not necessarily F15's have their own radars and are responsible for their own mission.
Short answer - No. however, it does have the only Chinese spy balloon kill 😂
@@brellnobI can see how that would make sense to someone who isn’t a fighter pilot, but it really doesn’t.
The F-22 v Balloon kill is an incredible piece of one-up manship.
It tells China three things:
1:The US will defend its airspace from even the slightest threat.
2:US "heat seeking" AIM-9X missiles do not require a heat source to track. As balloons are acclimated to ambient temp. At that altitude, the balloon was sub freezing.
3:All of Chinas efforts to hack and steal Lockheeds data and intellectual property on the F-22/F-35. And their subsequent J-20 development is null and void.
(Because the F-35 can track threats from over 800NM, which is several MOA below the horizon, using thermal sensors. This was in the news at the same time as the Balloon. And it can fire AIM-9X "heat seeking" missiles that are so sensitive, they can smash a frozen balloon, let alone an afterburner equipped stealth jet. Even an ordinary jet skin surface heats up due to friction at cruise speed).
The next layers of brilliance is the general public is outraged that this balloon was allowed to drift entirely across the country after crossing into Montana airspace, all the way to DC. Then was shot down with an expensive missile. By an expensive jet that has never seen real combat. Average joe thinks this is an embarrassment.
But NORAD nullified the balloons ability to gather and transmit data, while also gathering their own intel about the systems capability, since it was actively trying to transmit information back to China. Allowing ground based receivers to determine what intel it was gathering. While allowing it to drift across the continent on national TV. A total embarrassment to China. And a great publicity stunt to gin more Military support and funding for a potential (someday maybe) war in the South China Sea in aid of Taiwan.
When i'm in a yapping competition and my opponent is this guy:
@@dawixd2678when you believe everything you read on the internet lol 😂
@@TheJustinJit took us forever to get a fighter in the air.. and it is an embarrassment because the "Most Dominate Air Superiority" Jet only killed a balloon while others actually saw combat and proved its worthiness. If the J-20 or Su-57 had done the same, the reaction will be the same and they'll become a laughing stock. I understand if the base had an active F-22 or one was nearby but you can easily use an F-15 and 16 to take down a simple balloon. It's not a total embarrassment to China, because they did it over and over to see how quick the response time is so they can get a good idea on how the US will respond to their invasion on Taiwan. China even stuck a drone into Japan and pinpoint its helicopter carrier which Japan got scared. If you look on the map, you can see mock ups of US jets in the desert where they tested the carrier model. Why do you think they haven't sent more? They learned and are now implementing tactics.
That would be an interesting story of the T-38 vs F-22 training sortie. And the take-aways from it for both yourself and the Pilot.
Allen Iverson reference at 4:06 gave me a chuckle...
thank you Mover for your sharing of insight and understanding.
We used to regularly get the first shot on Raptors with the JHMCS and 9X (Rhino) post-merge. They didn’t have a HOBS capability at the time. Fox 2, continue. Then, 9/10 times, you were immediately defensive 😂
Good luck talking sense into the Jane’s nerds, though. Nothing quite like a bunch of internet warriors telling me what my jet can and cannot do, all with UNCLAS, open source information and zero time in [any] seat.
Amen. 🙏
But, but, but DCS pros say ______! 🤣🙄
HOBS is pretty cool, seems like there's really no beating it if your aircraft isn't similarly-equipped, BUT obviously a merge is a situation a Raptor driver ideally never gets into in the first place.
I'm jealous that you got to see the initial turn though, must have been kinda terrifying seeing how quickly that nose comes around at you.
Ok but hear me out… I’ve got some advice for MLB pitchers and NFL GMs as well. I’ve also sat in a old f-18 when I was 6 at an air show thank you very much. No “seat time”
Just imagining you merging with a Raptor, getting a shot off, and then immediately have to go defense because the Raptor has such an insane turn rate and can essentially turn its nose on demand.
Raptor 1:kill 🎈, Thank you Mover for explaining how Red Flag works I never really understood it all, now I have some kind of understanding.
Ah, common sense. Who would guess?
Its sad but also good that the F22 was never able to see any air to air combat. Its like creating the ultimate hyper car that you dont get to race because it is 10 times the price with nothing on earth that can give it a competition. We haven’t fought an enemy with any sort of air force since before the F22’s development
@@stanislavkostarnov2157the risk of losing f22 to the enemy hands far outweigh the benefits of testing it. F22 is tested all the time in stimulated fight against other us aircrafts, that's more then enough for now. Losing F22 to Russia would undermine decades and billions worth of intelligence loss, they can reverse engineer everything
I think people have stopped thinking analytically and often don't ask or think about context. Like "4 out of 5 dentists choose Crest" they leave out 4 out of 5 dentists in the study work for Crest.
Mover ruins magazine racing 🤣🤣
OK, maybe for that exercise it posted that record. However, if you go to Nellis Air Force Base and take a look at the overall training record they have for the F-22A there have been kills scored against it from a German Euro Fighter Typhoon, an F/A-18 Super Hornet (gun kill), numerous times Op For F-16 Aggressor aircraft were able to catch it by surprise, there is even a picture floating around of an A-10C that has an F-22A painted on his fuselage with the rest of us kill sorties. Of course these are training kills And even the F-15 that both a real world combat record of zero losses has quite a few losses in training. People fail to understand is they do things to train these F-22 pilots by purposely putting them in real bad scenarios because as we have come to figure out the world is not a perfect or ideal place and fights. Don’t always happen your terms.. I still think the Germans boasting about the euro fighter typhoon kill is kind of funny because they were fighting Raptors that were still carrying their drop tanks. They were not clean.
No one is keeping score. There are no kill counts or “training records.”
Criminally underrated point, people forget this too often
Balloon Kills Matter
Glad a BKM representative is here!
My daughter popped several balloons this weekend. It mattered.
No such thing as the perfect/best tool. Its the best tool for a specific job.
Hi Luna ( snoozing in the background)
Back in my misspent youth as a gubmint apparatchik we used to have same sort of problem with sponsors and funding agents from the mighty P-Gon, so it's not limited to keyboard warriors on the intertubers, sadly. It's really hard to explain the differences between training, experimentation, and free play, and the last is extremely rare. In fact we largely stopped going to 'exercises' (circa 2019) in spite of the opportunity for greater visibility and potential cost savings, because said exercises were too heavily scripted (due to training and/or 'performance anxiety' in big-ticket programs) because us RDT&E people couldn't get any uncertainty into the schedule. We found it better for productivity and results to just pay the price for running our own lower-visibility 'field experiments' where we could let loose our engineers and military advisers to 'think hinky' about this system or that.
Anyway, great stuff as always.
In other words, it was during practice just like TD's/goals/HR's/points scored in practice don't actually appear on a player's official statistics.
Hey Mover I have a question for you,when you were at Red Flag did you ever go up against Canadian fighter pilots?
I was on the blue side, so no.
Thx Mover for clarifying the Red Flag/Blue Flag objectives.
Back in the day, tomcats used to fly as red air and behave like MIG 23s, they would simulate their flight characteristics and behaviors in order to give their fellow tomcat pilots realistic simulation of an enemy
I distinctly remember seeing an A-10 with an F-22 painted on the nose.
@rodneypayne4827 f22s were intentionally nerferd and we in an un stealth configuration.. not how it would be in real combat so does it really count?
@@squad-wh4ig the point of the video is that none of it counts for anything, except taking an air to air L to an A-10.
I’ve also seen one on a T-38
Ye I once saw a Cessna 172 with a F-22 painted on the engine cowling. So what?
Cope
Man, the F22 Pilot will have to mess up to lose , You Supercruise at 1.7,Stealth Radar return smaller than F-35, With Aesa Radars & E-3 AWACS how many advantages do you need? **Example- The poor Iranian F-4 Fighter who the Pilots didn’t even Know The F-22 was there,told you should really go home embarrassingly 😳
Makes sense Mover , Regards from Dublin Ireland
Thank you Sir! As usual, you provide an awesome answer, supporting documentations, and a "behind the curtain" look at the exercises. Love the channel! My respect!
TBH the only thing that matters is being ready for the actual fight no matter what you fly, and most people if given the choice hope that irl fight never has to happen.
I'm glad you said this. Training is training for a reason. Kills are counted for ACTUAL kills, not training. Training makes the pilots better.
Good morning, Mover. Excellent video. Are you enjoying our 100°+ temperatures and high humidity? Yeah, me either. Stay safe, hugs and pets to Miss Luna.🐾🥰🐾
In actual combat thus far (Iran still has a few F-14s):
“F-15 has an air-to-air record of 104 and 0. That's better than the F-16 (76-1), the F-14 Tomcat (135-4)”.
F-22 is the best fighter jet ever made until the US 6th Gen comes out.
However, thus far only real “combat” is against a ballon.
The Raptor is the best jet because it's pretty strong in Ace Combat
Even if training kills DID count, the Eurofighter Typhoon would like a word about that 0 you got there 👀
This reminds me of jui jitsu when people say “oh yeah I tapped that guy out during sparring”. Everyone looks down on that guy, because who cares who got tapped out during sparring? That’s literally where you’re meant to utilize tapping out. Gloat about competition, not about training.
Well, wouldn't it be interesting to set up a trial where the two meet with symmetric objectives and all out (within some bounds for safety)? I don't think it'd be entirely a "waste of gas", given how expensive these programs are and the lack of any actual outcome data? Of course, there's also a reason why not only despite, but because certain medications are horribly expensive, there are studies that show them to work, but often no studies running them directly against a control group with generic medications for the same condition.
Great explanation for the GRUNTS 🫡 I knew I liked you Air Wienie for some reason 🤷🏻♂️🇺🇸👍🏻
That's 2,674 flight hours per plane - is that amazing? I have no idea.
With regards to international exercises, I have heard the US will not reveal the true capability of their high tech assets like F22.
Correct
In actual aviation combat anything can happen.... you train to develop situational awareness... when it comes down to act or react you have mere seconds
great vidio, thank you, i had to mention that you resemble hangman from topgun maverick!
German Eurofighters have confirmed raptor training kills haha
I heard the Ghost of Kyiv took out all Russian fighters.🤔🤣
I was an F-15 crew chief. When did red flag alaska start. Ive only heard of nellis.
You mean that I don't get a decal for every balloon I pop???? Unacceptable!
The Call of Duty Mover fans are disappointed. 😂
Though I bet you didn't stop smiling after getting the f22 :)
I saw a video of Sindwinder in DCS, and I have a question for a ex fighter pilot, regarding the use of Antiradiotion missels against Air targets instead of ground targets, when ur not able to see the enemy on your radar, but get locked yourself. Is there a world where this could be used as a last resort? Or is it just outright useless.
A B-52 tailgun radar painted a F-4G during desert storm and thinking it was a ground radar the WSO fired an anti-radiation missile. It shredded the B-52s tail but it landed and was dubbed "In HARM's Way".
@ChucksSEADnDEAD that is truly unlucky for the B-52. But pretty interesting things like that can happen. A combination of all sensoretyps in one missile would probably be intresting to see, that also slows down and starts it burners again when requiring.
I mean Imagen a missle that can be guided have its on radar, has its own visuel sensors not only infrared to the see the jet and use theire ow radar and Jamming against them too. That stuff would be really hard to avoid. But I am not sure of a combination of HRAM, optical guided, radarguided and infrared missals even exist. Would be wild if it dose
In real life & war, doesn't matter. All theory.
If your platform is undefeated in a TRAINING environment then you’re not training right. In training you keep pushing the platform into more and more disadvantageous situations until it loses, that way you find where the true limits are and it puts you in a better position to utilize them properly in real life.
Gripen fanboys are almost as annoying as Rafale fanboys.
Very nice. I helped out the TRACOR F-86 pilot when I was Ammo up at Elmendorf AFB, AK (93-97) with chaff out of bad chaff sticks to get a F-15C "kill" during DACT training. He would make chaff packs out of poptart packs with a bit of tape. He'd place them in his air brakes. Was 1 time use but it got him a few "kills". It gave the training pilots something to learn,so not to discount older enemy aircraft.
Love the professional perspective
Makes sense Mover, thank you for the clarification!
Exercise Pitch Black 2024 is a week away from kicking off in Australia. No doubt an interesting testing experience for machines and crews with the French bringing the Rafale, the Spanish and Germans bringing the Typhoons the Italian's too and the F-35, the Singaporeans, South Koreans, Indonesians bringing various Falcons and Eagles, the Thai's with the Grippen. Not to forget the Indians with the Flanker and of course the US with the F-35B and the F-22. And the home team with F-35A, F-18F and the F-18G.
Contact Mathew Renbarger who flies the F-1 against F-22s out of Luke AFB. He's a former F-22 and F-35 USAF pilot. You should interview him about dogfighting. He works for AATC and dogfights against F-35 student pilots at Luke every work day.
Doesn't the F-15 have that in real life?
Hey, could you review Man of Steel, there's a scene where there's a couple of A-10s and littlebirds during the smallville fight
Our F/A-18C pilots of VFA83 beat fresh F-22 pilots in training. Nothing to brag against either aircraft, but to acknowledge new pilots learned tactics from us. When they are allowed to keep their distance with speed, then the scenario changes.
Afaik the original Gripen at Red Flag reports were that the Gripens (as Red side) just avoided the Raptors et al., while carrying out their assigned missions. So no "kills" either way. The accomplishment was to know enough about the location of the Raports to give them a wide berth. (This was 2006, 2007 or so. Seems Sweden hasn't been invited back since anyway.)
Mover ruins stupid articles.
21y 7m retired US Army. It is the same thing on the ground. Have deployed, been there, got the t-shirt. Both Conus and OConus have also played profession OpFor and BluFor. Have taken out SF types, and have had fresh out of AIT FNGs take me out. It is all about training to the mission and/or task. Everyone is human, humans' make mistakes. Better to make the mistake in training and not wherever you may be going. None of those training results translates into one countries/nations soldiers being more high-speed than the other.
That sounds like the line from that documentary Top Gun Maverick; "It's not the plane Sir, it's the pilot."
Absolutely sure that the pilot killed in an F22 won't forget being shot down by a T38 wont forget it and learnt alot more than they probably did from other days they probably had to buy alot of beer/cake too!
Even beyond what was said in this video there's an awful lot more to what makes an aircraft "good" than just how it perfoms in a relatively idealised setting of an exercise. Does it break all the time? Is it easy to fix when it breaks (no point having a fighter if it can't fly) how expensive is it to operate and fix (no point having a fighter if you can't afford it or can afford lots more of another one), how efficient is it on fuel (all of that fuel needs to be brought to theatre by ships, tankers etc), nowadays how good is it at sharing information and working with other elements within the battlespace (you might not be the best fighter but if you can get enemy aircraft shot down by someone else what matters is the endgame).
People should understand by now that it's NOT the weapon that makes the man, but the MAN that makes the WEAPON.
I do not know abpout kill ratio in training but jesus I like so much seeing agressors F-15 and F-16 wih these color schemes (it is so sad the normal grey one) :) :)
Ok mover. I hear what you are saying. F-22 secretly bad, f-5 red air is best kills raptors. Writing article now
“I’ve killed Raptor’s as red air.” training kills or not thats still a flex
More respect on this mans name 🤙🏿
Although, since you mention the Eagle - Doesn't it actually have 104-0 combat air to air ratio and would be a valid thing to bring up?
As a youtube comment creator, I can confidently say that waffles are superior to pancakes.
I tell everyone about C.W. Lamoine and watch you regularly. You are awesome. Thanks for all the effort in making these videos. Keep going!
97% MC rate for F-22s? 😂😂😂😂
Lmao, loved the Iverson reference. Dude was my favorite player back in the day.
In the old day Redflag was based on the first 10 days of war with the Russians, now it’s just the first morning.
Is flying an F-15.F-16,F-18 or F-22 ever a waste of gas for the pilot?
Thank you for your analysis and commentary.
Excellent talk on training. Thanks.
Reds give in to blues?😁
4:05 great reference
we talking about Practice, not the game i love but practice, practice. Love the AI reference
What about the F-5 training kill ratio versus all the more modern fighters?
F 15 - still the most beautiful fighter.
*F-22 Raptor has entered the chat*
When the two way rifle range is hot, then it counts. Ps. two way rifle ranges suck.
#moverkilledanf22 🤣
They matter as much as diversity, equity, and inclusion do in an actual war.
It's always good to hear it from someone who did it in real life. Thank you for the video.
100% accurate
Mover, great episode. I liked how you broke it down and provided some important context!
So CW if you had to fly into air cap which plane would you take?
Mover, would you please answer a question for me. Years back, I flew in the F-100F many times, but not as a pilot. The IP always told me to keep the O2 mask on during take off and while in flight, in case of an IFE. I see many movies were the pilots in fighters don't have them fully attached. Who's right? (My IP had over 4,000 hrs of "Hun." time.
In the movies they often remove the masks because it makes it easier to recognize who is who and get better quality audio. Trying to capture any facial expressions and emotions is also much harder with a mask on. Same with why they always have their visors up or they are always clear (except for bad guys!).
Real world you definitely want your mask on. Oxygen, radio/intercom, protection during ejection are the big reasons that come to mind.
Cute dog, Sir.
Raptor fanboys will say, “you’re just jealous bc you’re not a raptor pilot.” I’m calling it now.
The voice of reason and clarity as usual. Thanks Mover !
Any chance you can do something with The Spad?
Yes. Yes.
Thanks!
Something to note as well is that the Gripens main competitor for overseas sales as a budget option is the F-16
The Gripen is performing poorly in terms of foreign sales so they market heavily against the F-16 to try and drum up sales for the plane
It also loses out heavily against the F-35 and the F-18 as well
I don’t think anyone’s picked the Gripen over the F-35 as of yet and while it seems the super Hornet tends to get preference over the Gripen I don’t think anyone is really all that interested in either
The one thing that’s curious to me though is that while the F-35 is an amazing plant especially for the money having it as your only fighter does leave holes in your defensiveness because it simply lacks capacity and it’s extremely important in a BVR fight
Trees the plane is stealth but in an engagement against bigger planes it just can’t stay in the fight as long and that’s extremely detrimental in a BVR fight
You can’t rely upon stealth to get in close to get kills
It’s a very dangerous thing to do and is really against modern fighter doctrine
Ofc I’m not in the military and don’t know everything
Maybe they have an ace that we don’t know about with the F-35 but the F-16 in Ukraine faces a similar problem without the benefits of stealth
Training can definitely fill in the gaps because Russian training is abysmal unless they’ve stepped up their game in recent years since the war started
They just don’t invest as much in their pilots training and don’t give them enough flight hours to be competitive but again that could have changed recently and would make sense of it did
Except your just making uneducated assumptions.
In BVR your gonna have to get closer to get a kill that just simple missile employment mindset.
Nvm the fact that an F-35 in stealth config carries the same amount of missiles as an Air to Air Config F-16 and Gripen C/E as they both need to carry fuel tanks since both fighters simply doesnt have the endurance to loiter for an amount of time using internal fuel alone.
If the F-35 needs more AAM's she could go beast mode allowing her to carry up to 14 AAM or 16 if we include the sidekick upgrade and back up her reduced stealth with her extensive electronic warfare capability.
Gripen is a great aircraft but its particular strengths are things that often matter alot in real warfare but don't show up in politicans minds - it's designed to be maintained by conscripts with minimal training, it has great senors and is focused on netowrk centric warfare (but that requires you to have the network for it to work with). Also it's made by Sweden, Sweden is still pretty much neutral, buying fighter jets from Sweden makes you friends in Sweden which most countries don't really care about. Buying US jets makes you friends with the US which is much more significant. Then there's the security of supply - not always guaranteed that the US wont cut off supplies to a country that's attacked but probably sweden is more likely to. Then there's the strengths of the F35 - much lower RCS and similarly great sensors and network capability (but more expensive). I am a bit surprised that the Grippen hasn't sold well in developing countries - it does seem kind of like a modern version of the Mirages, but perhaps those countries have been going for the Rafale. It's worth noting that the Viggen didn't sell well either and neither do British designs.
@@gotanon9659 what do you know about BVR?
Have you ever been in it witnessed a BVR fight or actually learned about BVR tactics and standard doctrine?
@@tomriley5790 well, you said it..
It’s not just the plane but the country that sells it
The F-16 has been around for a long time and is still being produces which means availability of parts and munitions which are standardized btw for the long term
While I agree that politicians don’t know what they’re doing the people that run their military hopefully do and are the ones testing the planes and considering all the ins and outs of the purchase
The reason why American fighter jets win so many contracts over smaller competitors, like Saab Gripen, is that financial muscle of the US. Smaller counties can’t compete with the counter offers that the US can make, like industrial investments and political gains etc. Saab has managed that in Brazil, by letting the South Americans build the aircraft themselves but usually its companies like Lockheed Martin that wins the bidding on pure financial muscle. I recon it will be slightly different now that Sweden is in NATO.
Oh, I like it when some reality chimes into the madness of media hype
Thanks for the explanation on training to prevent a kill of our pilots. I agree it’s more about the ability of the pilot at a given time to handle the battle mission. The F22 is a great plane and I believe the stealth and long range detection ability gives it an advantage. Yet there is a report out about one F22 against multiple F15’s with F22 pilots flying the F15’s (knowing the ability of the F22 is my take away) but the F22 won all simulated missions.
At Airshows they say the F22 only shows certain features of the plane and it has more capabilities. Some reports say how close the F22 can get to enemy, before the other planes see it on radar. I think some of the reports have merit to a degree, but as you say training is what protects the pilot.
It's standard practice to not reveal the full capabilities of military hardware, tactics and strategies. You only go all out when it truly matters, at all other times you hold back.
This is true for all advanced militaries in the world. Anything else is plain foolish.
People like simple, but it's rarely reality.
I saw those exact two articles a week or two ago. Thank you for adding proper context!
Where did you get that shirt? Looks fire
Thank you for an honest propaganda-free take on this topic.
What does Frat mean when speaking about the Strike Eagle?
Friendly fire
Good and informative episode, Mover!