Norman Finlestein says: "I abhor any of the atrocities committed that day, but I refuse to condemn people under occupation". S ... that is paraphrasing.
This is wrong. There is no excuse for Hamas killing thousands of Gazans for the crime of being supporters of the NSF lions, PA, Fatah, Dahlan, Salam Fayad's third way, Mustafa, Marwan, femnism, lbgtq+. Almost every muslim majority country in the world opposes Hamas, for cause. Any Hamas member would to arrested or under surveillance if they visited almost any muslim majority. And again, rightly so. Why are so many nonmuslims so reticent about criticizing Hamas?
@@AnAn___ "Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas," Netanyahu told his Likud party's Knesset members in March 2019. "This is part of our strategy" Haaretz, October 2023...
@@minismith7329 I do love Norman. I think he has done a lot of good for Palestinians. However, Hamas has done a lot of harm for Palestinians. Hamas has made a one state solution or a two state solution far more difficult.
We were made to believe that Israel could inflict nonstop violence day after day, year after year, generation after generation for the last 75 years without ever incurring any violence in return. This claim is made to dehumanize palestinian and the palestinian resistance.
what on earth are you talking about? the intifadas, the rockets from Gaza and WB, all the terrorist attacks, suicide bombings in cafes, buses... all of this. either you think it didn't exist and you are an absolute ignoramus, or you think it's nonsense and in that case you are a monster, which are you?
Thank you for speaking up about this issue. As a Palestinian American it truly breaks my heart when we are condemned to silence and acceptance of our utter destruction and demise with no sympathy to our moral resistance. We are expected to just sit back and let the world see our suffering and wait for any change. The last 75 years has proven that this does not work.
And I fear the patient and persistent efforts to seek justice through the structure of international law are being revealed to be basically an empty gesture full of western hypocrisy and cowardice… the remaining alternatives are grim.
@@JayShapiroDilemmaHost Yes , unfortunately the international community has failed and more and more of us see these small gestures as ways of smoothing our anger and frustration while the injustice and suffering continues relentlessly. The structure that has been built to cause this pain is not nearly been chipped at even slightly in the last 7 months. It is a suffocating web that has been reenforced with money, (corporations) lies, (media) miseducation, (universities) and blackmail (politicians and entertainers) on all fronts.
@@user-lh2og2ib1i I agree he's a non serious party trying to ride this wave of momentum into relevancy. did u see Cornell West going off on him few weeks ago? Idk if Prof West was calling me a racist I'd probably reflect on that a bit
My youngest child is a 13 year old boy. I must confess to holding back a few sobs every time I’ve seen that young boy’s anguish, heartbreak and fully understandable rage. How anybody could watch/listen to that and not be moved is positively crazy to me. I see my boy there, and my heart breaks. It’s so utterly soul destroying what’s going on now, let alone what’s been going on in that region for something like 75+ years. Violence begets violence. Subjugation, oppression, pervasive generational denial of dignity and basic respect for your fellow human being results in a perpetual cycle of the same. We must change as a species.
@@AnAn___ I really, really wish I had a clear idea, let alone a cohesive, actionable plan for such a thing. I’ve thought about this for quite a while, and I find that’s it’s a tough nut to crack. There are so many angles to consider in the U.S. alone. Massive population mixed with low information voters or folks that are simply apathetic and are completely disengaged. Massively corrupt government due to legalized bribery (lobbying). Complete lack of equal justice (being held accountable literally depends on the size of your bank account). The military industrial complex makes policy that quite literally prioritizes endless war. The sheer volume of disenfranchisement/disempowerment through wage slavery and continuously eroding social safety nets engender a highly cynical populace…and on and on. I think, ultimately, one of the largest hurdles that needs to be figured out is how to get a clear, empowering, moralizing and action inducing message out there that somehow bridges pretty significant ideological divides on a fairly massive scale. Seeing the Palestinian freedom focused movements continue to grow, despite or in-spite of state forced clamp downs on freedom of speech is incredibly inspiring. This gives me hope. I think this is forcing a sea change and is actually elevating consciousness to a not insignificant extent. I’m hoping this continues to grow and the message remains clear. People must be treated with dignity and respect, and be allowed the basics for life (Maslow’s hierarchy of needs). I wish I had a better answer 😕 What do you think?
@@AnAn___ I really, really wish I had a clear idea, let alone a cohesive, actionable plan for such a thing. I’ve thought about this for quite a while, and I find that’s it’s a tough nut to crack. There are so many angles to consider in the U.S. alone. Massive population mixed with low information voters or folks that are simply apathetic and are completely disengaged. Massively corrupt government due to legalized bribery (lobbying). Complete lack of equal justice (being held accountable literally depends on the size of your bank account). The military industrial complex makes policy that quite literally prioritizes endless war. The sheer volume of disenfranchisement/disempowerment through wage slavery and continuously eroding social safety nets engender a highly cynical populace…and on and on. I think, ultimately, one of the largest hurdles that needs to be figured out is how to get a clear, empowering, moralizing and action inducing message out there that somehow bridges pretty significant ideological divides on a fairly massive scale. Seeing the Palestinian freedom focused movements continue to grow, despite or in-spite of state forced clamp downs on freedom of speech is incredibly inspiring. This gives me hope. I think this is forcing a sea change and is actually elevating consciousness to a not insignificant extent. I’m hoping this continues to grow and the message remains clear. People must be treated with dignity and respect, and be allowed the basics for life (Maslow’s hierarchy of needs). I wish I had a better answer 😕 What do you think?
@@AnAn___ I really, really wish I had a clear idea, let alone a cohesive, actionable plan for such a thing. I’ve thought about this for quite a while, and I find that’s it’s a tough nut to crack. There are so many angles to consider in the U.S. alone. Massive population mixed with low information voters or folks that are simply apathetic and are completely disengaged. Massively corrupt government due to legalized bribery (lobbying). Complete lack of equal justice (being held accountable literally depends on the size of your bank account). The military industrial complex makes policy that quite literally prioritizes endless war. The sheer volume of disenfranchisement/disempowerment through wage slavery and continuously eroding social safety nets engender a highly cynical populace…and on and on…
I think, ultimately, one of the largest hurdles that needs to be figured out is how to get a clear, empowering, moralizing and action inducing message out there that somehow bridges pretty significant ideological divides on a fairly massive scale. Seeing the Palestinian freedom focused movements continue to grow, despite or in-spite of state forced clamp downs on freedom of speech is incredibly inspiring. This gives me hope. I think this is forcing a sea change and is actually elevating consciousness to a not insignificant extent. I’m hoping this continues to grow and the message remains clear. People must be treated with dignity and respect, and be allowed the basics for life (Maslow’s hierarchy of needs). I wish I had a better answer 😕 What do you think?
That might be true... but lets not pretend that the states of mind that im describing can operate in less ´rational´ ways as well.... especially when the soldiers might not be right in front of him. either way, we all have to move urgently to save him.
I would guess that Nimr is feeling vulnerable and he wants to feel safe. If he can't feel safety then there is a high likelihood that he will be a fighter and will seek revenge. He and thousands of others can be saved if they have a safe future with opportunities for happiness.
The first step to stopping people fighting you, is to stop making them have to. But there is no incentive for this. Israel is an expansionary state, part of why they are so abusive to Palestinians in their control is to try and provoke a response from their relatives, the refugees in neighbouring countries like Jordan, as this then gives them to pretext to expand (there is already talk in the country about wanting the East Bank). Selling land outside of their recognised territory is a great way to bring in white supremacists who want to beat up brown people and become the new land owning class of a new nation from Europe and N.America, giving them a bigger army for further conquest. This, like N.America, is a multi century project, it cannot be understood without being recognised as such. Until this project is dismantled, and the gradual elimination of the indigenous Arabian population stops being the chosen path, it makes no sense to even talk about revenge. It's simply resistance. The boy's words are an expression of powerlessness. This feeling will no longer be there once the boot on his neck is removed. If he chooses to become a fighter, it will be because that is the best option available to him.
@@steve7236yes, he and his peers will feel safer when Israel stops dropping 2,000 lb ordnance on them. Although this particular child may not live to see such a possibility unfold, since a charitable assessment of IDF's kill ratio is 1:64. Which is to be expected in one of the densest populations on Earth, a populace that has endured over 40k airstrikes in the last 7 months. Incidentally, if you overlay a heat map indicating population density with a map indicating Israeli airstrikes carried out using Lavender and other AI software (employed ostensibly to limit civilian deaths), one would be forgiven for thinking that civilian carnage was the objective.
The most calm and interesting video I've seen in many months... I'm Algerian, in our country, there's not a single family who doesn't have lost a least a member in our revolution against french colonialism. Gideon Levy made the analogy between our struggle for freedom, and the Palestinian one a few years ago.... colonialism cannot treat people violently and not expect this violence to come back to its face. The only way is to break the circle of violence. Let's hope that leaders understand that soon
The question "Do you condemn Hamas?" is accusatory, irrelevant, unanswerable, and dishonest. It is accusatory because it implicitly assumes that the person being asked agrees with the violence. It is irrelevant because the person being asked has little influence over Hamas by answering it, one way or another. It is unanswerable because the person being asked was likely never in the situation that Hamas fighters are, and therefore cannot know, whether they would actually use violence in that situation. It is dishonest because the point of the question is not to get any information, but to signal loyalty. It is, simply, a loyalty test. Like the greengrocers declaration of peace in Havel's essay Power of the Powerless.
I totally agree. I hope my serious response to it though does reveal all of that and would hopefully adjust the entire playing field for these very tiresome and unhelpful rhetoric games that are played... to something actually helpful?
I think the question is relevant. Because many nonmuslims around the world back sunni islamists against good liberal muslims. And this is the proximate cause for many problems that muslims around the world confront. What is wrong with outing the nonmuslim supporters of islamists against good liberal muslims?
@@AnAn___ I think you're completely wrong, I don't know any non-muslims who would back radical islamism against non-radical one. If you want to do sweeping generalizations like that, better back it up with data or, at least, examples. Even if such people existed, if they do it out of ignorance or ill-intentions, they shouldn't be asked this question, therefore, the question remains irrelevant.
@@jansamohyl7983 I wrote many articles about this topic. But I can't post links to them without TH-cam eating this comment. But if you have to read or watch any content on this very important topic, please read "Woke Army" by Asra Nomani. Please feel free to watch Asra Nomani's many videos on this topic. You can watch her conversations with Yasmine Mohammed or Rajiv Malhotra; or any others that appeal to you. Look up how Soros' Open Society has donated money to major organizations of the muslim brotherhood. The muslim brotherhood and Hamas have been consistently backed by nonmuslims as a hammer to hurt good liberal muslims. Many Al Qaeda linked networks have also received a lot of support from nonmuslims to harm muslims. Will stop writing more to prevent this comment from getting eaten up by TH-cam.
@@jansamohyl7983 My comment to you was eaten by youtube. Have written many articles on this topic but can't link to them in this comment. Please read "Woke Army" by Asra Nomani. Or watch one of her many conversations. Her conversations with Yasmine Mohammed and Rajiv Malhotra were good. But many of her other conversations were also very good. Soros' Open Foundation has donated to several of the muslim brotherhood's organizations. Nonmuslims have consistently backed the muslim brotherhood, Hamas and Al Qaeda linked networks.
Why he didn’t like this comment ? He liked most of them :p he is a liberal zionist, twisting reality in many different ways, while he interviewed Pappe he didn’t argue or say anything he just let Pappe say what he have to say and then at the begging and end of the interview he give his zionist twisted confusing ideas. New style of Israel supporters, hasbarista still :) I’m watching you Mr zionist ;)
Bassam Youseff’s response to being asked this question is the best. He lays it out very simply and undresses it to show the blatant bias and hypocrisy.
Beautifully explained. We should ask that person in return who is questioning us about condemnation of Hamas, if he or she condemns killings of Palestinians for the last 75 years, stealing of their land and resources and making them hostages. They likely won’t answer it. Then we should ask if they condemn killing and burning of 14,000 children, displacement and starvation of 2 millions. I am sure those people won’t condemn even those evil actions.
I do condemn all of this but stealing of land. Because Israel is Jewish uncestral homeland, just at is homeland for Palestinias, US soil is uncestral homeland for native Americans and new Zealand for Maory people. I sincerely think that we need to condemn HAMAS as political party and ideology. Of course individual people can make mistakes. I wish that teenage boy from the video all the best.
How can it be a European ancestral homeland when they say Judaism is a race, but their people are from converted kazars and ashkenazis. It doesn't .Ake sense how they can be part of the Jewish race. Albeit I don't believe Judaism is a race.
Is this mentality only offered to people who are occupied and colonized or does it extend to people who have been systematically and societally bullied?
When the question is asked, it's not the part of the question that begins with, 'do you condemn Hamas...?' It's always in how the question is finished: 'for their atrocities; or terrorist attack on October 7th?' And THAT'S the problem with the question. They've already framed the attack as a 'terrorist' act, which I have a problem with, for several reasons. And it seems to me, that we always have to reiterate, over and over again, that October 7th was NOT the first day in the entire history of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Oppression breeds resistance. And as history has shown us, time and time again, it's NEVER pretty. Just like the Civil War and the slave revolts from our own history, as he rightly referenced. The question becomes just as 'loaded' as the other well-worn question: 'Does Israel have the right to defend itself'? Especially when we're witnessing in real time, what Israel qualifies and justifies as 'defense'. That Palestinian kid did nothing but exemplify one of the most natural traits of the Human Condition that we hold dear: Anger and resentment toward ANYONE who violates our personal space with unnecessary authoritarianism, humiliation and violence.
thats exactly right. i hope the second half of my essay gets to that point a bit with trying to unplug some of the 'terrorism' propaganda stuff with the analogies to native tribes and the language used around their 'resistance' to the regime of manifest destiny
"Terrorist" is a legal status that excludes them from Geneva Convention protections. If you accept them as terrorists, you're "allowed" to torture them. Torture is the most widely applied form of terrorism, and the damage it does to people does result in many of them wanting to do something "back"... not usually as revenge, but as a desire to grab attention as a desperate attempt to get it to stop. This includes in 9/11 attacks, most people I don't think will remember that the hijackers did actually send a letter saying why they were doing it... and yes, it involved support for Israel. Our response to "terrorism" actually creates an incentive to those who wish to abuse populations to maximise the cruelty, close down peaceful means of redress, so the only time we see anything, we simply "condemn", wish to go and "sort them out"... and we become the apparatus of their oppression. Of course, "terrorist" as a legal status doesn't really mean anything. When the US was arresting "terrorists" to send to Guantanamo after 9/11, they offered rewards, so all that happened was organised crime sprang up that would kidnap people to sell to the Americans. It was just a taxi driver who was tortured into "confessing" that he worked for Saddam Hussein, purchasing uranium for a nuclear program. But the designation of "terrorist" means you don't have to care... you still get to torture them ("get to", *sigh*)
When the path of non violent resistance is met with violence, violent resistance is inevitable. Active resistance is a choice people make and to draw on your analysis, people condemn themselves so their future generations don't have to condemn themselves. They sacrifice whatever is left of their humanity so their future generations have their humanity. And the issue we have to solve is that our systems are flawed, they shouldn't have to condemn themsleves in order for their people to receive the same human rights everyone deserves.
I´ve thought of that same thing - (condemning yourself so the future doesnt have to)... its a chilling thought... a bit religious to be sure... but there is something to it.
@@JayShapiroDilemmaHost not necessarily religious, definitely ideological though. The one example I can give is Avram Iancu who was the leader of the Romanian resistance in Transylvania. He was a highly educated lawyer for its time and could have had a career. But he chose resistance because the Romanians in Transylvania were under oppression. The person that once was called "the prince of the mountains" died crazy, roaming the mountains of Transylvania and relying on the good will of the communities he fought for. His resistance movement was brutal and I think once it was over, his conscience kicked in and he was unable to live with what he has done without going somewhat mad.
I appreciate your brilliantly articulated thoughtful answer to this over-used irritating question. Many leftist pundits who support the Palestinian cause continue to temper their discourse with the seemingly obligatory condemnation of Hamas. I had some understanding of the conflict before Oct 7th but afterwards, I did a deep dive. I read Rashid Khalidi’s “The Hundred Years War on Palestine” listened to various Jewish scholars including Ilan Pappé, and Avi Shlaim and watched several documentaries. With a fairly comprehensive understanding of what the Palestinians have been through, I can’t bring myself to say that I condemn Hamas, even in a colloquial sense. The use of the experience of “Nemr’s Pain” perfectly illustrates my strong emotional connection to this question. I wince every time I hear someone condemn Hamas because I feel so much empathy for the Palestinians. I want to scream, to somehow make them understand the extent of the historical atrocities inflicted on them that led to the attack. But at the same time, I feel pangs of guilt because I also care about the Israeli civilians who suffered. I wonder if there is something wrong with me because I can’t bring myself to condemn Hamas. With this continuing to go on I find myself in psychological stress, as I guess much of the world is. Your analysis provides the nuance I needed to help me better understand my position. It helps to bring some psychological relief. Thank you so much for sharing it.
there is no such thing as an Israeli "civilian", every single member of the Israeli society serves in the Israeli army. An occupying army that acts as the last colonial outpost in modern history. So no, I don't condemn Hamas. All of them are either active participants or complicit bystanders to the subjugation and oppression of the Palestinians for the last 75 years. I feel absolutely no sympathy for these people at all. They chose to immigrate to this piece of land and displace the Palestinians from their homes and continue this displacement process for almost a century.
@@NShll-sd9yw I understand your sentiment. It is one of the reasons I am psychologically conflicted. On the other side, I am profoundly aware that my existence is based on settler colonialism, albeit further removed from the violent takeover with respect to time. It would be hypocritical not to acknowledge that. I also recognize that every single human is cognitively dissonant because of subconscious psychological defence mechanisms. It is easy to criticize other cultures from the outside. None of us know with certainty what our personal views would be if raised in such a culture. But I am also aware that I..al was created after the creation of the UN founding Charter and concurrently with the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights. One of the intentions of those documents was to advance humanity past the settler colonialism era. You are correct that in this day and age, everyone should be intolerant of the subjugation, dispossession and oppression of a people. But then again we have the governments of Western democracies and the world’s greatest superpower supporting, aiding and abetting it. From a moral perspective, I am in complete agreement with you. From a psychological perspective, I understand that common people, many indoctrinated from birth, may not see the picture so clearly especially when the world sends such conflicting messages. Thus, I do have room for empathy for their suffering. There is no doubt the world has changed after that fateful day last fall. I hope that eventually, it will become analogous to a fairly recent parallel historical event which will remain un-named to avoid being censored.
The problem is when it comes to Israelis' obvious war crimes people like Piers would say how its not “black and white” and there are “nuances”. But when they ask if you condemn Hamas all of sudden its now a binary question with clear distinctions. The question gives away the person's intentions. Great video and the kid was heartbreaking
Thank you, Jay, for this wonderful philosophical analysis of the question. I can assure you that your answer is complete. As a Palestinian, I understand what Nimr goes through and what he thinks about if he were to join the resistance. That boy is no typical child like the ones you see in the West. While in captivity, he was thinking about feeding his younger sister-this boy is more of a man than one might think. In fact, most Palestinian boys are, and this is a result of the situation they were born into. Let me assure you, the moment he becomes a fighter, he will only seek victory, and victory doesn’t come from harming the innocent. He knows that very well and doesn’t wish to make innocents suffer as he has suffered. Fighters in the H group have shown humanity on multiple occasions with the captives they took. We all heard their testimonies in the past few months following the truce in November of last year. These young men just want to liberate themselves; the only vengeance they seek is from the combatants, not the people collectively.
Indeed I concur. H is not driven by an infettered sense of revenge. Hurting the innocents is not something / a modus operandi H would factor in or countenance in terms of its military objectives. I am not a Muslim but my understanding of Islam leads me to suggest Islam absolutely forbids hurting the innocents. In fact Islam promotes the proy3ction of the innocents. Unlike the illegal colonial settler entity which arose out of the murder of defenceless Palestinian villagers bearing in mind at the time the population was very much agrarian. Palestinians were murdered by such armed militias as the Haganah, Irgun etc and these invading terrorists did not spare anyone. But the speaker on this video surely knows this. These killers showed no mercy. The reason is simple: they came to steal and kill indigenous population to ethnically cleanse, dispossess etc leading to where we are today. And for the record most if not all former so called prime ministers said paraphrasing if I was an Arab I would fight back. At least H knows about being merciful. H confronts the occupying military. In fact if it were man to man combat although the Palestinian would give the settler occupier a good beating he would let him live. Whereas the settler colonial opponent would not because he is bereft of mercy. Finally a grown fully armed settler colonial occupier abusing and violating a child is by any stretch of the imagination not only utterly cowardly but absolutely reprehensible!
@@sorayaboyd9275 You, sir, have said it all! You were not afraid to speak the truth. I appreciate everything you said, and I wish more people had at least a basic level of critical thinking so they could reach similar conclusions. You know what’s funny though? We are unable to call the H group by its actual name, yet we’re able to say ‘Haganah’ like normal. So much for freedom of speech. We’re all slaves to these governments, and it’s not in their interest to expose this over-glorified U.S. military foothold in the Middle East, aka Israel.
How can people be ok with what's happened to that boy? To look at him and think "terrorist?" To leave that context out when talking about October 7 is willful distortion. It's lying by omission in the most devastating way. Your approach to the question of condemnation is by far the best i've seen. Thank you for your thoughtful, philosophical and altogether human compassion.
He needs to be loved and inspired to be good. If he wants Gaza to be great, then the path is via self-actualization (wujuud, fanaa fillah, haqiqa, baqaa billah maarifa), perfection, excellence, merit. His own self-actualization will inspire other Palestinians to achieve self-actualization and then Palestine will become heaven (jannah) on earth.
@@AnAn___ if lessons on humility, dignity, courage, steadfastness are to be learned we only need to look at Palestinians who have taught us and are continuing to teach us about what it is to remain human when facing such unremitting daily adversity, humiliation, vanton violence, dispossession, cruel and inhuman treatment at the hands of the illegal occupying regime which violates in total impunity ?and does so every day since before 1948) its erga omnes responsibilities because it is protected by its godfather the US, godmother Britain and all the other willing vassalised lackeys. Free Palestine
@@sorayaboyd9275 Why in your view has the Palestinian economy done so badly since Oslo started in 1993. Doesn't this suggest that Palestinian self governance has been mixed at best? Palestine was an asian tiger economic miracle in the 1970s and 1980s.
@@AnAn___ Evidence for this? Prior to Oslo, it was 100% occupied, now a few Bantu towns are Palestinian controlled, when your external roads are 100% controlled and shut by an occupier are you really free???
@@gahmed8047 Look up real GDP growth in Palestine in the 1970s and 1980s. The Palestinian economy deteriorated after Oslo 1993. Hard to post links without the comment being eaten up.
Thank you for the brilliant analysis. I teach American Studies in Cairo University, Egypt. Your talk touches upon many themes we deal with. Thank you for the secular humanism, and for much more.
Also realize, the Palestinians have a just cause, you ABSOLUTELY can't even say what he will or will not do in the future especially right after a traumatic event. HIs pain will heal, but also he will not forget, and mature to grow into a man. Actually not standing up, and not fighting back is completely contradictory to what you say is moral. It is unmoral to not do so! If someone runs over your house, beats up your parents, etc and to quote Prof. Rudolph Ware, " There is no moral equivalence between the violence of the colonizer and that of the colonized, Colonized and oppressed people have a moral obligation to resist. If the Zionist Entity commits an aggressive act of theft they have committed an immoral abomination, but if you permit this when you have the capacity to permit thus when you can resist you are also guilty of moral failing, it s not just your right to resist it is your responsibility to resist to keep harm from reaching the children.Your not supposed to let people kidnap your children and lock them up interminably , you're not supposed to let people violently abuse and sexually exploit] your people if you have the capacity to resist."
Thank you for your analysis. I hope you reach all those whose heart and mind has become dull and self righteous. I also hope that your analysis and the unfiltered testimony of this child help decision makers in this war to realize what terrible harm they are causing.
@@JayShapiroDilemmaHostI have to aim to think out loud in such a well-reasoned and eloquent manner! Very interesting analysis. I was actually looking for discussion of how to answer this question, and other such questions. I saw this video of this boy some time ago, it stuck with me. I need to listen again to find the right word to describe what I feel and think about those who are responsible for the horrific harms on the Palestinians. The soldier who did this to him? Those who have caused children to die buried and crushed under the rubble? The ideology that is trying to erase them? It all needs to be reckoned with, the systems dismantled, and those who have committed the crimes need to face their “charges” so to speak, and make reparations for all the harms.
@@JayShapiroDilemmaHostas a proud supporter of Israel and Jewish self determination I think It’s better to ask people if they support or celebrate Hamas
I like your take on this. But all through this video i kept wondering how a freedom fighter can be among the condemned he has a right to fight and resist and even take revenge. Because evil requires only inaction to win. And in the case of a freedom fighter the colonial power is certainly evil.
@@JayShapiroDilemmaHost yes on a personal level I could grasp that no one wants to do horrible stuff to others. But I reckon when you feel justified your conscience agrees
@@mrfarax4944 Israel is a highly narcissistic society (I normally hate such generalisations, but it's a fairly small and highly mobile society... people move there to join in the fight, and people who can't stand it leave, so there is a selection process that enforces it in this case)... mostly, parents hit their children far too hard, far too young, creating an unexplained feeling of resentment and unjust victimisation, we might call it a "persecution complex". Their education system teaches them things about other people with the same name ("Jews") creating a sense that this feeling is a result of their identity as Jewish people. This reinforces narcissism on both the individual, and population levels (you find similar things in other countries, just usually as a much lower portion of the population). The feeling of being "the victim" mutes the conscience, which is why narcissism tends to be sociopathic, and refuses to accept responsibility for harms carried out against others. The goal in Gaza is simple... maximise the cruelty to "send a message", make sure "they" know to never try anything ever again. They call it "deterrence", the cruelty is something that they are entitled to. I call 'em Nazissists, it was the exact same mindset in Germany, and because the feeling is one from previous trauma not connected in any way to the victims, no amount of killing ever quenches it... in fact, as the feeling doesn't change, the desperation increases, the killing becomes impatient... the angry "why won't you learn your lesson?!@!" beating... it doesn't stop unless somebody steps in.
That guy from The Atlantic, Graeme Wood should watch this, though I kind of doubt it would change his mind. Israel has committed about thirty October 7ths at this point.
Asking "Do you condemn Hamas?" is a trap because it forces a binary response to a complex issue, creating a false dichotomy. It pressures the person to align with one side, oversimplifying their views and potentially misrepresenting their stance. The question diverts the conversation from more nuanced discussions about the broader conflict, underlying causes, and possible solutions. It is designed to corner the respondent into making a politically charged statement, rather than fostering genuine dialogue.
I wish tens of thousands more could be listening to your deep, thoughtful podcasts. Please team up with more people like yourself to be more effective in deseminating these wise words.
The video is very engaging and makes sense. I can’t imagine anyone working at CNN, MSNBC, or Fox who has the ability to understand what you are saying. The people we see representing these media corporations are propagandists and actors with no journalistic integrity.
What a fantastic and refreshing perspective focusing on the psyche. More of this kind of communication is needed to build bridges and achieve success in peace
What I hate about the 'Do you condemn Hamas' question is that it's meant to create a pre-condition for any further discussion. If you say 'no', that's it, your obviously an anti-semite and a terrorist sympathizer and are automatically precluded from any further discussion. It doesn't matter much to me, but this is how America Media is chosing to 'filter' the opinions on Gaza that are deemed to be permissable. But I do not understand why the US is prepared to sacrifice so much for Israel. The only reason I keep coming back to again and again is goold old racism. I did like the video though thanks.
Many nonmuslims have long supported the muslim brotherhood and hamas as hammers to hurt syncretic good liberal muslims with. Ergo, isn't asking people "Do you condemn Hamas" useful to ferret out the nonmuslims who support islamists who attack good liberal muslims?
It is SO racism... the only reason we don't call them white supremacists is because Jews are excluded from being considered equally "white", letting them wear the word "Jew" as a klan hood... even racism is racismmer!
Resources and oil is the reason why. Also America uses Isr@el to keep the middle east under their thumb, and also keep an eye on Russia and China which are right next door.
@@la6136 Don't follow your comments. Do you mean that as a large energy producer and exporter the USA wants high global energy prices and for countries to reduce energy production? Why in your view is almost every muslim majority country in the world anti Hamas or in conflict with Hamas?
Thankyou "And some win Peace who spend the skill of words to sweeten despair, of finding consolation where life has but one dark end". - Walter De La Mare 🦋
Absolutely agree with you, and so hopeful that you will speak out. I’ve been anti death penalty and remember when it was deemed cruel and unusual punishment. Hamas is comprised of humans, not demons, with families and morals, like must of us. Great discussion! Thank you.
That’s true, Islam has guidelines on when is it permissible to fight and guess what?! The Quran clearly puts in terms of resisting oppression and mentions being drive out of your home is a context for resistance. Here in America we LOVE our guns because we believe that we have the right to defend ourselves. Well if we extend the same right to the Palestinians…
Let’s not get carried away here and credit any of this stuff to a religion. Islam is a religion founded by a war leader who conquered the whole Mediterranean in a few decades. You can find in Islam any quote that you want to justify any action you feel like taking, like in all abrahamic and I suspect other religions. Let’s not make this about religion, because it’s not. It’s about empire maintenance and control of water and arable lands.
Muslims families used to wholeheartedly name their boys "Israel" - until the advent of the European-derived ideology of Zionism... *_"Zionism is an European ideology of Ashkenazi nationalism that seeks to colonize Palestine in order to establish a Jewish nationalist state."_* - Smadar Lavie, Mizrahi Jewish (Palestinian Jew) historian on the ashkenazi-ruled aparth€¡d state of Israel, professor of anthropology, UC Davis, marched w/Reuven Abergel of the Israeli Black Panthers for a One-State Solution Equality for All
I actually have a friend named Israel. I don't know why his father named him like that. Since he is Muslim and I am sure he is against Israel as is the rest of our country.
@washimakram2676 - it may be an objective learning of 'Israel' thru the Quran, as opposed the politically-imposed experience of it as most people are familiar with... btw here's the video about Muslims naming their children 'Israel' as explained in length by an Imam: th-cam.com/video/SVo4E5zijVA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=LK3jpwyhX5HIfR9a
In reference to Moslems’s belief and liberty to name their offspring with prophets and messengers’s names: Simply put in Al-Islamic context as follows: -Our father Adam, our Mother Hawaah(Eve) then their descendants Noah, Ibrahim, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob( his name also Abdullah means servant of Allah The Almighty Creator and also his name is Israel, then their descendants like David, Suleiman, Joseph,Moses, Arun, Issa(Jesus) and Mohammad (the seal of prophethood and messengers to all mankind till the end of time), they all very revered and loved so much by Moslems. Al-Islam is the submission to Allah The Almighty Creator alone and following his messengers and prophets. Difference between a messenger and a prophet is a MESSENGER was sent with a complete legislation to the people he was sent to ( his is a messenger and prophet also) however a PROPHET is sent to affirm and confirm what was the MESSENGER was sent for. Every Messenger is a Prophet but not every prophet is a messenger. Peace and blessings of Allah The Almighty Creator be upon Mohammad the seal of prophethood to all mankind and all messengers and prophets preceded him. -About the issue of CREATION simply put in Al-Islamic context: Father of Humanity is Adam( had No father or Mother) Created by Allah The Almighty Creator Who Created Eve( Hawaah from a Adam’s rib) peace be upon them both, then humanity as we now a result of Propagation. Adam was created from Earth’s dust that same dust we will end up to be after we cease to exist on the face of this Earth. Same result like that of some human’s believe to cremate their deceased one which would be DUST. Same result for plants, animals and everything living after dehydration and crushing them all ends in DUST and the same result with the mountains and toughest rocks would be crushed and end up being DUST, all this by The will of Allah The Almighty their and our Creator. -The difference of all this is HUMANS and Jinn are the only creatures given the full freedom of free will BUT they are accountable for the choices they make individually ( no such thing as eternal sin)and rewarded accordingly ( Hell or Paradise) may Allah The Almighty Creator guide us all and all humans to Al-Islam. -Every point made backed up in Islam according to The Quran ( actual word of The Creator directly to any human with no intermediary, read all to verify, but before you that clear your heart and mind of any indoctrination and prejudice, best done after taken your shower and got dressed with modesty). -About the point or points noted above in addition to the recently discovered Big-Bang Theory. يقول الله الخالق سبحانة في سورة الأنبياء أيه 30:{أَوَلَمْ يَرَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا أَنَّ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ كَانَتَا رَتْقًا فَفَتَقْنَاهُمَا ۖ وَجَعَلْنَا مِنَ الْمَاءِ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ حَيٍّ ۖ أَفَلَا يُؤْمِنُونَ (30)}. Allah The Almighty Creator saying in Surat Al-Anbiyaa, Aya 30: {Have those who disbelieved not seen that the heavens and the earth were once a joined entity, and We separated them apart, and made from water every living thing? Will they not believe? (30)}. Explanation of the above Aya: God Allah The Almighty Creator says, warning of His complete power and His great authority in His creation of things, and His subjugation of all creatures. He said: (Have those who disbelieved not seen?) That is, those who deny His divinity and worship others with Him. Have they not known that God is the One who is independent of creation, and tyrant in His plan? So how is it appropriate for them to worship other than Him? He associates with Him all else, did they not see (that the heavens and the earth were joined together), meaning: they were all connected to each other, closely knit and accumulated, some of them on top of others in the beginning of the matter, so this one was separated from the other? So He made the heavens seven, and the earth seven, and separated the heaven of the world from the earth with air, so it rained and the earth grew. That is why he said: (And We made from water every living thing. Will they not believe?) That is: while they watched the created things happen little by little with their eyes, and that is evidence of the existence of the Creator, the Chosen One, the One who is able to do what He wills. In every thing there is a sign indicating that it is one. May Allah The Almighty Creator guide us all to the truth of the straight path of Al-Islam and follow the way of Muhammad his last messenger to mankind till the end of time peace and blessings be upon him and all those preceded him to our father Adam and Hawaah. If you have any question about any point made hopefully I’m still living, I would entertain an answer by the will of Allah The Almighty our Creator. May you all be under the fold of peace and blessings of The Almighty Allah The Creator of us and all that exists, seen or unseen, known or the unknown, Ameen Ameen Ameen.
Great show. Thanks Jay. Forgiveness is the key to diplomacy. Apologies are powerful An apology is the first step in forgiving yourself and forgiving others. Apologies are powerful. How often do you hear those two lines? Often in our society we think of apologies as a sign of weakness. “Never say you’re sorry. “ How many times of you heard that? I say that an apology can level the playing field. It can defuse an explosive situation like a magic incantation. Ultimately, it allows others to see and hear that you can take responsibility for your actions. And the most beautiful side effect? You can forgive yourself for carrying around that burden in the first place. Powerful Healing is a matter of time and forgiveness. But it is also a matter of great opportunity. Let it go. Apologize. Unburden. Communicate
Nemir did not say he wanted to avenge himself on random Israelis. He wants to avenge himself specifically, on the soldier who brutalized and humiliated him. I think this is important to observe. The more condemnable party is the one who both harms directly, and then twists the psyche of their victim through their infliction of harm and degradation. Even Jesus, for those who call themselves Christian, tells followers that to ruin the innocence of any is condemnable (ie., “a stone hung around his neck and thrown into the sea”).
I hear you. It's my linguistic preference to condemn persons rather than parties or groups etc... And yes I know what Nemr said, but if that soldier is not in front of him, it is possible that his justified anger and hatred will transfer to others. spend some time with the history of the native americans and you'll see a lot of difficult questions like this one.
@@JayShapiroDilemmaHost of course you’re aware of Nemr’s meaning, but in case anyone else failed to catch it. I can certainly see that phenomena (of victim becoming perpetrator) in many occasions throughout human history. I think a likely outcome is precisely what you described in becoming the depersonalized soldier. This is a great response to the absurd question, btw. 👍🍉🍉🍉
I hope your voice is amplified more on this topic. For no one can accuse you of being biased for one side. You very well understand the threat of radical islam while Completely empathize with the Humanity of Palestinians. This phenomenon is colossaly rare in this issue
Thank you... I address this in the later portion of the video and maybe use a different word than ´threat´ in the particular context of the question of this essay :)
Hamas party members are personally quite conservative and orthodox, but the party is not Islamist. The party is not seeking to impose Islam on non-Muslims. The court system in Gaza is secular with an underlying Muslim flavor, much as the USA has Christian "flavored" courts. Palestinians are a religiously and politically diverse group. There are Christians, Marxists, agnostics, atheists in Gaza right now. Several political parties still exist there.
To my mind, once you know the facts.....2 million people, living in a concentration camp, being targeted for 'mowing the lawn', having hundreds killed randomly, watching their families being murdered, arrested, having their food, medicine, water and electric cut off for a month at a time....for decades and decades, I wondered why Israel didn't expect Oct.7th, and what took Hamas so long! No one wants to live under the boot heel of a maniac tyrant!
Good morning, I have just watched this video after coming across your channel for the first time. I want to say thank you for sharing understanding, truth and justice.
When you asked the essential question, (paraphrased) "...Can one be blinded by divine vision such that the murder in front of them feels like nothing, or worse feels like ecstasy..." my mind went right to mentalities of colonial settlers, whether those following Manifest Destiny, Zionism or some other ideology... While here you are primarily focused on the condemnation to violence that results from oppression, I wonder about the other type of "condemnation" though that isn't perhaps the best word, but whatever it is that causes a person to lose their humanity not because of oppression, but simply out of the sense of glory of being somehow a member of "God's Chosen" elite who can do no wrong.
@@AnAn___ i think you are giving people too much credit to suggest they are even doing their own interpretation of gods will. most people do not think individually, they just follow blindly.
@@AnAn___ Please stop. Your apologia for a rogue state like Israel feeding on war crimes every day isn't working anymore, and you should be ashamed of your position.
Thank you for this! It captures so much of the thoughts I have had about this, and provides additional perspectives around which my views may evolve. My reaction thus far has been based on the principle that I do not "condemn" people. I may "condemn"/disavow/reject actions as immoral, but even insofar as I "condemn" the action of, for example, murdering an innocent civilian, this condemnation tells the listener nothing about my thoughts/positions on the specific matter being discussed-in this case, the October 7 raid by Hamas/Palestinians into Israel). For this reason, I agree with the arguments here and elsewhere that the question "Do you condemn Hamas?" is essentially never asked in good faith, but rather is employed as a rhetorical weapon. That being said, your video is among the best ways that I have seen this conundrum addressed. Thanks again!
I listened to this two months ago, and note you have not posted anymore videos. Maybe I didn’t leave a comment which was remiss of me. Your argument was thoughtful and compassionate. I do admire your video interviews and podcasts. You understand opposing sides. It is the holding of two opposing emotions, understanding of two opposing points of view, that is a measure of emotional maturity, a quality that is all too lacking in our leaders today. The video of the abused little boy you showed was very moving. He naturally expressed his rage and outrage at his treatment, and only when it came to expressing how he wanted revenge did he begin to cry, as if he was aware that he was abandoning his conscience in favour of the lower expression of revenge, his only recourse of action.
@@lcbrittain thank you so much for the kind words. I am not a regular poster but please do keep an eye out for occasional analysis. I am going to comment on the US election and more soon ❤️
Deeply intelligent and thoughtful take on the question. I would imagine Piers Morgan doesn't have the intellectual capacity to engage with such a take as this. Either that or he wouldn't care for such a take. Thank you Mr Shapiro for giving a deep take on this subject.
It’s a very intriguing, interesting and amazing analysis of the condemnations. I despise Piers and people like him when starting the interviews with the condemnations. It’s very tricky and traps for this question when a person can and will lose a career. I just see Piers looking for profits and audiences. I love your show and subscribe to it. I hope you will invite into your show giant inspiration, intellectual, knowledge, academic and character such as Norman Finkelstein, Noam Chomsky, Rashid Khalidi, Ali Abunimah, Max Blumenthal, Mehdi Hasan, and Bassem Yousef. Peace, Salom and Salam.
Thank you so much for keeping an eye on me. To be transparent I´m working on a book (not entirely focused on Zionism, but will certainly take a few hard looks at it) about moral philosophy and history. So, I´m not putting a full effort into growing the show and pulling in huge audiences. But I will continue to spin out some essays and important conversations when I feel like I really have something to say. So I really appreciate the subscriptions... but don´t expect the daily commentary that some people like to put out :)
I agree with you. His life and many others that are oppressed around the world have been, as you put it, “condemned”. But I can’t help thinking this could have easily been me. If I was born there inside as of in America and I’ll be damned if I get treated that way and just take it. If I’m dead either way then I won’t go out without a fight. Violent? Yes but it’s in our nature as humans. To just take hit back when we get it for no reason. It’s ugly man it’s ugly and I cried when I saw his video. Thanks for the thoughtful video. It helped me move my thoughts forward
Another way to frame it is, "Do you condemn natives Americans, for fighting against Custer?" There is a reason that Malcolm X often said, "By any means necessary." Also see Frederick Douglass, "Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."
I loved hearing you talk. I am not your sycophant, but I admire your ability to speak so precisely, and your superior intellectually compared with most other people, especially for an American. I just discovered you on TH-cam. I am also an admirer of Mr. Norman Finkelstein. Have you any commentary on him? Oh, by the way, let me mention I am a retired medical scientist, 74, from Britain. My parents were poor factory workers with hardly any education, but were good enough to talk to me about the holocaust and racism. I was the first in my family to go to a University and obtain a couple of degrees. I now live in the US, but I hope to leave in a couple of years. I have had an interesting life. As for voting in the election, I will for Kamala. I think that those of us who care have some chance of pressuring the Democrats over Palestine. If Trump is elected, I think it will be the end of the Palestinians, as he has already said Netanyahu should :"finish the job". Therefore, I chose the lesser evil. There are a host of other reasons I will vote for the democrats, such as supporting women's rights and national healthcare. I believe reform is valuable as revolution is not likely to happen soon and who knows what its leaders would turn out as. If I had a time machine, I would be the Lawrence of Arabia to the Native Americans, encouraging them to unite as many tribes as possible and to either annihilate European invaders as they reach the shore or at least set up a national government to deport these illegal immigrants unless they were willing to integrate with the Native American way of life. I see you have hundreds of responses, so I do not anticipate a response from you, But I hope for one.
i try to check the comments regularly and I hear you loud and clear. thank you for the comment. I understand all the votes this year... including my own blank ballot. I was only half joking about the call for revolution ;)
@@JayShapiroDilemmaHost Thanks for replying. I was hoping you would respond to my enquiry about Mr Finkelstein, what you think about his thoughts on Palestine. I admire him tremendously. And I wanted you to reconsider voting democratic, not because I love them at all, but because I think the election of Trump will make us all lose hope for the fate of several millions of Palestinians. If Trump is elected Palestinians will be genocided (if that is a word). Please reconsider your opinion since you are a powerful influencer that could bring more votes to help stop Trump. I also confess I was thinking of not voting for Biden because of his support to Netanyahu. But I realize that the election of Trump brings that existential word into the conversation.
During American slavery when Nat Turner (and can you imagine what abominations & atrocities he saw as even a child during slavery) committed his group slave uprising, the Abolitionists *didn't* -- *refused* to -- condemn Nat Turner. They *didn't* say that the uprising justified slavery; they *didn't* say that slavery should be strengthened; they *didn't* say that there should be *more* slavery; they didn't say that more whips & weapons should be sent to the slave owners. They condemned the repugnant, racist, indeed violent system that consequently *created* , in that sense, Nat Turner. And that slave uprisings under such a repugnant & brutal racist ideology are *of course* what's to be expected! And that the answer to slave uprisings is to abolish slavery itself!
Dig into the archives of “the liberator” newspaper and you’ll see they certainly talk about the “lamentable actions” and “horrors” done by the revolting slaves… but very much do what I also did of underscoring how it should highlight the brutality and inhumanity of the institution of slavery. chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn84031524/1831-09-10/ed-1/
@@JayShapiroDilemmaHost "lamentable" & "horrors" -- of course they were -- lamentable that such horribly intergenerationally oppressed people finally feel they have to resort to such a thing -- does not equate with *condemnable* on the part of an uprising of members of generations upon generations of people who grew up, from the time they were the earliest cognizant children, witnessing & experiencing the visually ineffable atrocities of slavery. As I said, the Abolitionists -- who knew that the history of slavery didn't start on the day of Nat Turner's uprising -- condemned *slavery itself* , not Nat Turners' uprising. One of the founders of Hahmahs as a 6 year-old witnessed one of his parents killed by the Zyohnists. I'm sure that all the members of Hahmahs grew up witnessing such Zyohnist/Izraheli atrocities like the gen 0 cyde of Dier Yassin. I have a Palestinian friend who wouldn't leave a dry eye in the house, telling Westerners even from what he experienced as a *child* ! And you'd be able to hear a pin drop in an auditorium after what he said he's witnessed. And while my friend is not in Hahmahs, everyone who heard just his childhood experiences alone would certainly understand why their would be a Hahmahs (besides Israel largely creating it) & other armed Palestinian resistance groups. We'd *alll* be ready to pick up a guhn if we experienced such things by a racist foreign entity. It is said that the American colonialists went to *revolutionary war* against Britain over considerably less! And what was Israel founded on?...: *literally terrorism* ! Including assassinations. Groups that even Britain & other Western European countries & their media called terrorists...: like the Irgun & Stern terrorist organizations & the Hagannah militia. The Western govts & MSM speak of "post-Hahmahs". Is the West serious after even *arming* this Israeli gen 0 cyde!?... Which is the very reason *why* Israel is committing gen 0 cyde. Analogous to then Japan's gen 0 cydal "raype of Nanking". In both cases both countries (im)morally wanted no going back. Both countries wanted to crush any subsequent, consequent, & *any* future resistance of the oppressed through the wanton *gen 0 cyde* of them. And in Israel's case because, after this, *of course* there will be another 'Hahmahs'. Only the Western govts' racism would think there *wouldn't* be. "Do you condemn Hahmahs?"...: that's a racist Eurocentric question? Read "Gandhi's Statement On Palestine *1938*"! Gandhi, a pacifist, said that, "in the face of overwhelming odds, nothing can be said about [against] Palestinian forms of resistance." Einstein said, "If after 2,000 years of wandering, we Jews cannot learn to make honest pacts with the [Palestine's] Arabs, we will deserve *all* that befall us." (Italicization added.) And Einstein: "It would be my greatest sadness to see Jews do to others *much* of what Nazis did to Jews." (Italicization added.) And as the anti-Zyohnist & prominent anti-racist Jewish-American activist, Tim Weiss, once said: "To this end 6 million died?"
Hey Jay, it's Miles, the Brit you and Zara ran into in Madrid on Saturday (I think) Sorry I never got around to texting you guys, my phone and all my cards were stolen Tuesday morning so I lost your number 😫 So glad I was able to find the podcast though! looking forward to making my way through it
I can't imagine how anyone could do such a thing to this child. If I were an Israeli I would be very angry to realize that I have been programmed to hate the Palestinians to this degree. With lies! I hope he recovers well.
I was 4 years old in Rwanda when the genocide took place.. I lost everyone except my mum, And I remember before the genocide I wanted to be a doctor or a priest, immediately after the genocide all I wanted was to join the Army so I can find people responsible for killing my siblings and injuring my mum. I wanted this for a long time but luckily I was able to leave that environment and live in the UK where I was allowed to grow and play and feel safe. I stopped feeling the urge to join the army and my Drive to help people returned and it what I now do.
I´m sorry you experienced that. the factors that existed (including your own will of course) from the time you were 4 until now are really important... if the political situation had only festered and you were confined to remain in Rwanda and perhaps live under a brutal occupation controlled by the tribe responsible for your families murders... it could have gone differently. We all have to do what we can to make sure Nemr's story goes down a path a bit closer to yours than the fighter he might become... I don't think it's too late.
@@JayShapiroDilemmaHost 100% in my experience its about humanising the “other” and seeing stories like Nemr shows you the true human cost not just the numbers 35 thousand is a lot sure but Nemr is the true cost. Power to Nemr!!
I presented my comment to those who like P. Morgan. Im sorry but the comment wasnt intended for the content creator. Hopefully that clears up something but I think its important for everyone to read what I wrote
I might not agree with the ideology views of Hamas however I certainly agree with the idea that any people that are being oppressed and subjugated have every right and duty to fight back in any way that they can. And if you compare hamasa's attack on October 7th to Israel's attack since then Hama stands up as a much more moral actor in the fact that they've killed far more military targets than civilian. The fact that they took Israeli hostages and have been able to release them alive while Israel has killed their own hostages while smokescreening that they're trying to save them says a lot as well. And no one even talks about the hostages made up of children, women, elderly and her my soldiers who are being in prison under military law with a 99% conviction rate in Israel. So everything that anybody can throw at Hamas for being guilty for can easily be flipped and shown that Israel is a far worse perpetrator of those crimes then Hamas can ever be.
Appreciate the thoughtful presentation, gives me food to chew on. Previously my response is simply, I don't condemn hamas as terrorists based on what I know the past 20 years, but I do believe they also commit terrorist acts, for example Oct 7. So I believe a group can commit terrorists acts and not be terrorists....in the end is what is the solution, I appreciate yours as looking at many factors, or dominos....and agree the first to fall needs to be Zionism (although it appears to just keep growing stronger.)
I haven’t watched the video yet but I will. I was asked ‘do you condemn khamas?’ and I replied ‘do you condemn the IDF?’ I was also asked if I’m antisemitic? I answered ‘no, I want fairness, equality, and justice for all’.
Very much so... for everyone reading this who has not yet watched THE BATTLE OF ALGIERS (1966) ... correct that immediately! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_of_Algiers
This is everything. I remember the bloodlust the US experienced after 911 and was dismayed by it. I recognized that my humanist traditions were partyly responsible to why i didn’t see more death and suffering wasn't a good solution to dealing with that tragedy.
I hate to say it but I don't think the people who usually ask that tired question are intellectually capable of appreciating your well articulated academic response.
If you are kept under occupation what do you do, you fight back for your freedom and your childrens freedom. Violence is ugly and not justified, we in the west have not endured occupation or the consequences of war until we do we can't judge or condem
To delegitimize resistance they call u a terrorist. We seen it happen in Iraq and Afghanistan when the native people fought a foreign army on their land.
What’s scary and disgusting is This boy was made to suffer deliberately so it’s by design if you don’t create this hatred how will you justify your genocides
Great video! If I may, I have a book recommendation for you. Just finished reading Robert Sapolsky's book - Determined: A science of life without free will. It's a tough read. He completely changed my view on human behavior and if I'm being honest on life entirely. l'm still recovering from that...and I'm utterly convinced that I have to read it at least two more times just to make sense of it. Cheers
Oh thanks so much! I know his work well. I take a slightly different run at the free will question (something like Erich Fromm´s writing from Man For Himself) ... but i certainly know that determinism is ultimately inescapable. I have a long strange essay that touches on that topic over here whatjaythinks.com/essays/2019/12/23/part-1-of-libertarians-deserve-better-critics-food-first-philosophy-later if you are interested :)
Jay, I suggest you hug your mother and father. They brought you up in comfort and love the best they could. Conservative Judaism of the late 20th century was built by Jews who came from precarious backgrounds, suffered through American and European antisemitism culminating in Holocaust. They didn’t have the luxury to think deeply about politics. They were happy to work hard and put their children through Ivy League schools. As the result of their success, you can afford to search your own truth and live the life of privilege while fighting for the causes of “oppressed” people. You didn’t listen to your mother, nor to Yasmine Muhammed. You condemn Zionism, but can’t condemn Hamas. You condemn all Israelis for occasional brutality of descendants of refugees and holocaust survivors, but justify Islamic barbarism. Good luck fighting for justice, Jay!
Gracias!! Thank you. From the beginning I found that question false, sense deprived and accustive, putting you between the wall and the sword ( a spanish saying). I couldn't have answered with "yes" but also not with "no". Your essay has cleared up my thoughts and doubts.
Man, what an essay. I’m so glad I found you. I’m struggling to keep a coherent moral stance in this mess. This was a beautiful journey. I almost dread to look up the rest of your content and find out that the rest of it is yet another culture wars boilerplate channel 😅
![[FULL EP.16] เซียนพาลุย "เผือก-ฟรอยด์" กรี๊ดลั่น จนปูหนี | เฮ็ดอย่างเซียนหรั่ง | One Playground](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FsqUvwS3b-Y/mqdefault.jpg)
Norman Finlestein says: "I abhor any of the atrocities committed that day, but I refuse to condemn people under occupation". S ... that is paraphrasing.
This is wrong. There is no excuse for Hamas killing thousands of Gazans for the crime of being supporters of the NSF lions, PA, Fatah, Dahlan, Salam Fayad's third way, Mustafa, Marwan, femnism, lbgtq+.
Almost every muslim majority country in the world opposes Hamas, for cause. Any Hamas member would to arrested or under surveillance if they visited almost any muslim majority. And again, rightly so.
Why are so many nonmuslims so reticent about criticizing Hamas?
i condemn Israel
@@AnAn___ "Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas," Netanyahu told his Likud party's Knesset members in March 2019.
"This is part of our strategy"
Haaretz, October 2023...
Love Norman!
@@minismith7329 I do love Norman. I think he has done a lot of good for Palestinians.
However, Hamas has done a lot of harm for Palestinians. Hamas has made a one state solution or a two state solution far more difficult.
We were made to believe that Israel could inflict nonstop violence day after day, year after year, generation after generation for the last 75 years without ever incurring any violence in return. This claim is made to dehumanize palestinian and the palestinian resistance.
But we see this in daily life is not thing we say it's thing we live and see
True..
what on earth are you talking about? the intifadas, the rockets from Gaza and WB, all the terrorist attacks, suicide bombings in cafes, buses... all of this. either you think it didn't exist and you are an absolute ignoramus, or you think it's nonsense and in that case you are a monster, which are you?
Thank you for speaking up about this issue. As a Palestinian American it truly breaks my heart when we are condemned to silence and acceptance of our utter destruction and demise with no sympathy to our moral resistance. We are expected to just sit back and let the world see our suffering and wait for any change. The last 75 years has proven that this does not work.
And I fear the patient and persistent efforts to seek justice through the structure of international law are being revealed to be basically an empty gesture full of western hypocrisy and cowardice… the remaining alternatives are grim.
@@JayShapiroDilemmaHost Yes , unfortunately the international community has failed and more and more of us see these small gestures as ways of smoothing our anger and frustration while the injustice and suffering continues relentlessly. The structure that has been built to cause this pain is not nearly been chipped at even slightly in the last 7 months. It is a suffocating web that has been reenforced with money, (corporations) lies, (media) miseducation, (universities) and blackmail (politicians and entertainers) on all fronts.
poor stupid baby, keep crying
I don't think piers Morgan would let you get all this out
So true piers interviews in order to harass and humiliate he has no interest in peoples views
@@user-lh2og2ib1i I agree he's a non serious party trying to ride this wave of momentum into relevancy. did u see Cornell West going off on him few weeks ago? Idk if Prof West was calling me a racist I'd probably reflect on that a bit
Morgan is a Murdoch tabloid.
My youngest child is a 13 year old boy. I must confess to holding back a few sobs every time I’ve seen that young boy’s anguish, heartbreak and fully understandable rage. How anybody could watch/listen to that and not be moved is positively crazy to me. I see my boy there, and my heart breaks.
It’s so utterly soul destroying what’s going on now, let alone what’s been going on in that region for something like 75+ years.
Violence begets violence. Subjugation, oppression, pervasive generational denial of dignity and basic respect for your fellow human being results in a perpetual cycle of the same. We must change as a species.
How would you raise the global level of consciousness?
@@AnAn___ I really, really wish I had a clear idea, let alone a cohesive, actionable plan for such a thing. I’ve thought about this for quite a while, and I find that’s it’s a tough nut to crack. There are so many angles to consider in the U.S. alone.
Massive population mixed with low information voters or folks that are simply apathetic and are completely disengaged. Massively corrupt government due to legalized bribery (lobbying). Complete lack of equal justice (being held accountable literally depends on the size of your bank account). The military industrial complex makes policy that quite literally prioritizes endless war. The sheer volume of disenfranchisement/disempowerment through wage slavery and continuously eroding social safety nets engender a highly cynical populace…and on and on.
I think, ultimately, one of the largest hurdles that needs to be figured out is how to get a clear, empowering, moralizing and action inducing message out there that somehow bridges pretty significant ideological divides on a fairly massive scale.
Seeing the Palestinian freedom focused movements continue to grow, despite or in-spite of state forced clamp downs on freedom of speech is incredibly inspiring. This gives me hope. I think this is forcing a sea change and is actually elevating consciousness to a not insignificant extent. I’m hoping this continues to grow and the message remains clear. People must be treated with dignity and respect, and be allowed the basics for life (Maslow’s hierarchy of needs).
I wish I had a better answer 😕 What do you think?
@@AnAn___ I really, really wish I had a clear idea, let alone a cohesive, actionable plan for such a thing. I’ve thought about this for quite a while, and I find that’s it’s a tough nut to crack. There are so many angles to consider in the U.S. alone.
Massive population mixed with low information voters or folks that are simply apathetic and are completely disengaged. Massively corrupt government due to legalized bribery (lobbying). Complete lack of equal justice (being held accountable literally depends on the size of your bank account). The military industrial complex makes policy that quite literally prioritizes endless war. The sheer volume of disenfranchisement/disempowerment through wage slavery and continuously eroding social safety nets engender a highly cynical populace…and on and on.
I think, ultimately, one of the largest hurdles that needs to be figured out is how to get a clear, empowering, moralizing and action inducing message out there that somehow bridges pretty significant ideological divides on a fairly massive scale.
Seeing the Palestinian freedom focused movements continue to grow, despite or in-spite of state forced clamp downs on freedom of speech is incredibly inspiring. This gives me hope. I think this is forcing a sea change and is actually elevating consciousness to a not insignificant extent. I’m hoping this continues to grow and the message remains clear. People must be treated with dignity and respect, and be allowed the basics for life (Maslow’s hierarchy of needs).
I wish I had a better answer 😕 What do you think?
@@AnAn___ I really, really wish I had a clear idea, let alone a cohesive, actionable plan for such a thing. I’ve thought about this for quite a while, and I find that’s it’s a tough nut to crack. There are so many angles to consider in the U.S. alone.
Massive population mixed with low information voters or folks that are simply apathetic and are completely disengaged. Massively corrupt government due to legalized bribery (lobbying). Complete lack of equal justice (being held accountable literally depends on the size of your bank account). The military industrial complex makes policy that quite literally prioritizes endless war. The sheer volume of disenfranchisement/disempowerment through wage slavery and continuously eroding social safety nets engender a highly cynical populace…and on and on…
I think, ultimately, one of the largest hurdles that needs to be figured out is how to get a clear, empowering, moralizing and action inducing message out there that somehow bridges pretty significant ideological divides on a fairly massive scale.
Seeing the Palestinian freedom focused movements continue to grow, despite or in-spite of state forced clamp downs on freedom of speech is incredibly inspiring. This gives me hope. I think this is forcing a sea change and is actually elevating consciousness to a not insignificant extent. I’m hoping this continues to grow and the message remains clear. People must be treated with dignity and respect, and be allowed the basics for life (Maslow’s hierarchy of needs).
I wish I had a better answer 😕 What do you think?
Thank you.
Just one thing: Nimr would not grow up to aim at children but aim at the SOLDIERS who did this to him.
That might be true... but lets not pretend that the states of mind that im describing can operate in less ´rational´ ways as well.... especially when the soldiers might not be right in front of him. either way, we all have to move urgently to save him.
I would guess that Nimr is feeling vulnerable and he wants to feel safe. If he can't feel safety then there is a high likelihood that he will be a fighter and will seek revenge. He and thousands of others can be saved if they have a safe future with opportunities for happiness.
The first step to stopping people fighting you, is to stop making them have to. But there is no incentive for this. Israel is an expansionary state, part of why they are so abusive to Palestinians in their control is to try and provoke a response from their relatives, the refugees in neighbouring countries like Jordan, as this then gives them to pretext to expand (there is already talk in the country about wanting the East Bank). Selling land outside of their recognised territory is a great way to bring in white supremacists who want to beat up brown people and become the new land owning class of a new nation from Europe and N.America, giving them a bigger army for further conquest. This, like N.America, is a multi century project, it cannot be understood without being recognised as such. Until this project is dismantled, and the gradual elimination of the indigenous Arabian population stops being the chosen path, it makes no sense to even talk about revenge. It's simply resistance. The boy's words are an expression of powerlessness. This feeling will no longer be there once the boot on his neck is removed. If he chooses to become a fighter, it will be because that is the best option available to him.
@@steve7236yes, he and his peers will feel safer when Israel stops dropping 2,000 lb ordnance on them. Although this particular child may not live to see such a possibility unfold, since a charitable assessment of IDF's kill ratio is 1:64. Which is to be expected in one of the densest populations on Earth, a populace that has endured over 40k airstrikes in the last 7 months. Incidentally, if you overlay a heat map indicating population density with a map indicating Israeli airstrikes carried out using Lavender and other AI software (employed ostensibly to limit civilian deaths), one would be forgiven for thinking that civilian carnage was the objective.
@@shannonm.townsend1232
Or MORE like NOT incidentally.
The most calm and interesting video I've seen in many months...
I'm Algerian, in our country, there's not a single family who doesn't have lost a least a member in our revolution against french colonialism. Gideon Levy made the analogy between our struggle for freedom, and the Palestinian one a few years ago.... colonialism cannot treat people violently and not expect this violence to come back to its face. The only way is to break the circle of violence. Let's hope that leaders understand that soon
The question "Do you condemn Hamas?" is accusatory, irrelevant, unanswerable, and dishonest. It is accusatory because it implicitly assumes that the person being asked agrees with the violence. It is irrelevant because the person being asked has little influence over Hamas by answering it, one way or another. It is unanswerable because the person being asked was likely never in the situation that Hamas fighters are, and therefore cannot know, whether they would actually use violence in that situation. It is dishonest because the point of the question is not to get any information, but to signal loyalty.
It is, simply, a loyalty test. Like the greengrocers declaration of peace in Havel's essay Power of the Powerless.
I totally agree. I hope my serious response to it though does reveal all of that and would hopefully adjust the entire playing field for these very tiresome and unhelpful rhetoric games that are played... to something actually helpful?
I think the question is relevant. Because many nonmuslims around the world back sunni islamists against good liberal muslims. And this is the proximate cause for many problems that muslims around the world confront. What is wrong with outing the nonmuslim supporters of islamists against good liberal muslims?
@@AnAn___ I think you're completely wrong, I don't know any non-muslims who would back radical islamism against non-radical one. If you want to do sweeping generalizations like that, better back it up with data or, at least, examples. Even if such people existed, if they do it out of ignorance or ill-intentions, they shouldn't be asked this question, therefore, the question remains irrelevant.
@@jansamohyl7983 I wrote many articles about this topic. But I can't post links to them without TH-cam eating this comment.
But if you have to read or watch any content on this very important topic, please read "Woke Army" by Asra Nomani.
Please feel free to watch Asra Nomani's many videos on this topic. You can watch her conversations with Yasmine Mohammed or Rajiv Malhotra; or any others that appeal to you.
Look up how Soros' Open Society has donated money to major organizations of the muslim brotherhood.
The muslim brotherhood and Hamas have been consistently backed by nonmuslims as a hammer to hurt good liberal muslims.
Many Al Qaeda linked networks have also received a lot of support from nonmuslims to harm muslims.
Will stop writing more to prevent this comment from getting eaten up by TH-cam.
@@jansamohyl7983 My comment to you was eaten by youtube.
Have written many articles on this topic but can't link to them in this comment.
Please read "Woke Army" by Asra Nomani. Or watch one of her many conversations. Her conversations with Yasmine Mohammed and Rajiv Malhotra were good. But many of her other conversations were also very good.
Soros' Open Foundation has donated to several of the muslim brotherhood's organizations.
Nonmuslims have consistently backed the muslim brotherhood, Hamas and Al Qaeda linked networks.
As an Irishman, no, I do not condemn resistance.
I want nobody hurt, but Izrahell started this.
Another victim of hamas propaganda, just like Queer for Palestine. Yeah right
Why he didn’t like this comment ? He liked most of them :p he is a liberal zionist, twisting reality in many different ways, while he interviewed Pappe he didn’t argue or say anything he just let Pappe say what he have to say and then at the begging and end of the interview he give his zionist twisted confusing ideas.
New style of Israel supporters, hasbarista still :)
I’m watching you Mr zionist ;)
By existing?
@@jussirytkonen2871by stealing land that doesn’t belong to them in anyway
@@letsdothisshiat1162jews bought at least some of the land
Bassam Youseff’s response to being asked this question is the best. He lays it out very simply and undresses it to show the blatant bias and hypocrisy.
Beautifully explained.
We should ask that person in return who is questioning us about condemnation of Hamas, if he or she condemns killings of Palestinians for the last 75 years, stealing of their land and resources and making them hostages. They likely won’t answer it. Then we should ask if they condemn killing and burning of 14,000 children, displacement and starvation of 2 millions. I am sure those people won’t condemn even those evil actions.
I do condemn all of this but stealing of land. Because Israel is Jewish uncestral homeland, just at is homeland for Palestinias, US soil is uncestral homeland for native Americans and new Zealand for Maory people.
I sincerely think that we need to condemn HAMAS as political party and ideology.
Of course individual people can make mistakes. I wish that teenage boy from the video all the best.
@@АлексейПлакхин so they can evict people living for centuries??
How can it be a European ancestral homeland when they say Judaism is a race, but their people are from converted kazars and ashkenazis.
It doesn't .Ake sense how they can be part of the Jewish race. Albeit I don't believe Judaism is a race.
While the US was doing genocide against the Apache, how many asked, "Do you condemn Geronimo?"
Is this mentality only offered to people who are occupied and colonized or does it extend to people who have been systematically and societally bullied?
When the question is asked, it's not the part of the question that begins with, 'do you condemn Hamas...?' It's always in how the question is finished: 'for their atrocities; or terrorist attack on October 7th?' And THAT'S the problem with the question. They've already framed the attack as a 'terrorist' act, which I have a problem with, for several reasons. And it seems to me, that we always have to reiterate, over and over again, that October 7th was NOT the first day in the entire history of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.
Oppression breeds resistance. And as history has shown us, time and time again, it's NEVER pretty. Just like the Civil War and the slave revolts from our own history, as he rightly referenced.
The question becomes just as 'loaded' as the other well-worn question: 'Does Israel have the right to defend itself'? Especially when we're witnessing in real time, what Israel qualifies and justifies as 'defense'.
That Palestinian kid did nothing but exemplify one of the most natural traits of the Human Condition that we hold dear: Anger and resentment toward ANYONE who violates our personal space with unnecessary authoritarianism, humiliation and violence.
thats exactly right. i hope the second half of my essay gets to that point a bit with trying to unplug some of the 'terrorism' propaganda stuff with the analogies to native tribes and the language used around their 'resistance' to the regime of manifest destiny
"Terrorist" is a legal status that excludes them from Geneva Convention protections. If you accept them as terrorists, you're "allowed" to torture them. Torture is the most widely applied form of terrorism, and the damage it does to people does result in many of them wanting to do something "back"... not usually as revenge, but as a desire to grab attention as a desperate attempt to get it to stop. This includes in 9/11 attacks, most people I don't think will remember that the hijackers did actually send a letter saying why they were doing it... and yes, it involved support for Israel. Our response to "terrorism" actually creates an incentive to those who wish to abuse populations to maximise the cruelty, close down peaceful means of redress, so the only time we see anything, we simply "condemn", wish to go and "sort them out"... and we become the apparatus of their oppression.
Of course, "terrorist" as a legal status doesn't really mean anything. When the US was arresting "terrorists" to send to Guantanamo after 9/11, they offered rewards, so all that happened was organised crime sprang up that would kidnap people to sell to the Americans. It was just a taxi driver who was tortured into "confessing" that he worked for Saddam Hussein, purchasing uranium for a nuclear program. But the designation of "terrorist" means you don't have to care... you still get to torture them ("get to", *sigh*)
Wow, love the connection you draw between the use of phrases like "uncivilized savagery" and "terrorists" today.
When the path of non violent resistance is met with violence, violent resistance is inevitable. Active resistance is a choice people make and to draw on your analysis, people condemn themselves so their future generations don't have to condemn themselves. They sacrifice whatever is left of their humanity so their future generations have their humanity.
And the issue we have to solve is that our systems are flawed, they shouldn't have to condemn themsleves in order for their people to receive the same human rights everyone deserves.
I´ve thought of that same thing - (condemning yourself so the future doesnt have to)... its a chilling thought... a bit religious to be sure... but there is something to it.
@@JayShapiroDilemmaHost not necessarily religious, definitely ideological though. The one example I can give is Avram Iancu who was the leader of the Romanian resistance in Transylvania. He was a highly educated lawyer for its time and could have had a career. But he chose resistance because the Romanians in Transylvania were under oppression. The person that once was called "the prince of the mountains" died crazy, roaming the mountains of Transylvania and relying on the good will of the communities he fought for. His resistance movement was brutal and I think once it was over, his conscience kicked in and he was unable to live with what he has done without going somewhat mad.
Well....that was brilliant.
I appreciate your brilliantly articulated thoughtful answer to this over-used irritating question. Many leftist pundits who support the Palestinian cause continue to temper their discourse with the seemingly obligatory condemnation of Hamas. I had some understanding of the conflict before Oct 7th but afterwards, I did a deep dive. I read Rashid Khalidi’s “The Hundred Years War on Palestine” listened to various Jewish scholars including Ilan Pappé, and Avi Shlaim and watched several documentaries.
With a fairly comprehensive understanding of what the Palestinians have been through, I can’t bring myself to say that I condemn Hamas, even in a colloquial sense. The use of the experience of “Nemr’s Pain” perfectly illustrates my strong emotional connection to this question. I wince every time I hear someone condemn Hamas because I feel so much empathy for the Palestinians. I want to scream, to somehow make them understand the extent of the historical atrocities inflicted on them that led to the attack.
But at the same time, I feel pangs of guilt because I also care about the Israeli civilians who suffered. I wonder if there is something wrong with me because I can’t bring myself to condemn Hamas. With this continuing to go on I find myself in psychological stress, as I guess much of the world is.
Your analysis provides the nuance I needed to help me better understand my position. It helps to bring some psychological relief. Thank you so much for sharing it.
Thank you so much for listening. Your comment means a lot to me. 🙂
It’s a resistance that’s why you can’t condemn them and for me i never will.
there is no such thing as an Israeli "civilian", every single member of the Israeli society serves in the Israeli army. An occupying army that acts as the last colonial outpost in modern history. So no, I don't condemn Hamas.
All of them are either active participants or complicit bystanders to the subjugation and oppression of the Palestinians for the last 75 years. I feel absolutely no sympathy for these people at all. They chose to immigrate to this piece of land and displace the Palestinians from their homes and continue this displacement process for almost a century.
My heart just breaks the words are gone😢
@@NShll-sd9yw I understand your sentiment. It is one of the reasons I am psychologically conflicted. On the other side, I am profoundly aware that my existence is based on settler colonialism, albeit further removed from the violent takeover with respect to time. It would be hypocritical not to acknowledge that.
I also recognize that every single human is cognitively dissonant because of subconscious psychological defence mechanisms. It is easy to criticize other cultures from the outside. None of us know with certainty what our personal views would be if raised in such a culture. But I am also aware that I..al was created after the creation of the UN founding Charter and concurrently with the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights. One of the intentions of those documents was to advance humanity past the settler colonialism era.
You are correct that in this day and age, everyone should be intolerant of the subjugation, dispossession and oppression of a people. But then again we have the governments of Western democracies and the world’s greatest superpower supporting, aiding and abetting it.
From a moral perspective, I am in complete agreement with you. From a psychological perspective, I understand that common people, many indoctrinated from birth, may not see the picture so clearly especially when the world sends such conflicting messages. Thus, I do have room for empathy for their suffering. There is no doubt the world has changed after that fateful day last fall. I hope that eventually, it will become analogous to a fairly recent parallel historical event which will remain un-named to avoid being censored.
The problem is when it comes to Israelis' obvious war crimes people like Piers would say how its not “black and white” and there are “nuances”. But when they ask if you condemn Hamas all of sudden its now a binary question with clear distinctions.
The question gives away the person's intentions. Great video and the kid was heartbreaking
Thank you, Jay, for this wonderful philosophical analysis of the question. I can assure you that your answer is complete. As a Palestinian, I understand what Nimr goes through and what he thinks about if he were to join the resistance. That boy is no typical child like the ones you see in the West. While in captivity, he was thinking about feeding his younger sister-this boy is more of a man than one might think. In fact, most Palestinian boys are, and this is a result of the situation they were born into.
Let me assure you, the moment he becomes a fighter, he will only seek victory, and victory doesn’t come from harming the innocent. He knows that very well and doesn’t wish to make innocents suffer as he has suffered. Fighters in the H group have shown humanity on multiple occasions with the captives they took. We all heard their testimonies in the past few months following the truce in November of last year. These young men just want to liberate themselves; the only vengeance they seek is from the combatants, not the people collectively.
Indeed I concur. H is not driven by an infettered sense of revenge. Hurting the innocents is not something / a modus operandi H would factor in or countenance in terms of its military objectives. I am not a Muslim but my understanding of Islam leads me to suggest Islam absolutely forbids hurting the innocents. In fact Islam promotes the proy3ction of the innocents. Unlike the illegal colonial settler entity which arose out of the murder of defenceless Palestinian villagers bearing in mind at the time the population was very much agrarian. Palestinians were murdered by such armed militias as the Haganah, Irgun etc and these invading terrorists did not spare anyone. But the speaker on this video surely knows this. These killers showed no mercy. The reason is simple: they came to steal and kill indigenous population to ethnically cleanse, dispossess etc leading to where we are today. And for the record most if not all former so called prime ministers said paraphrasing if I was an Arab I would fight back.
At least H knows about being merciful. H confronts the occupying military. In fact if it were man to man combat although the Palestinian would give the settler occupier a good beating he would let him live. Whereas the settler colonial opponent would not because he is bereft of mercy.
Finally a grown fully armed settler colonial occupier abusing and violating a child is by any stretch of the imagination not only utterly cowardly but absolutely reprehensible!
@@sorayaboyd9275
You, sir, have said it all! You were not afraid to speak the truth. I appreciate everything you said, and I wish more people had at least a basic level of critical thinking so they could reach similar conclusions.
You know what’s funny though? We are unable to call the H group by its actual name, yet we’re able to say ‘Haganah’ like normal. So much for freedom of speech. We’re all slaves to these governments, and it’s not in their interest to expose this over-glorified U.S. military foothold in the Middle East, aka Israel.
@@sorayaboyd9275exactly 💯
How can people be ok with what's happened to that boy? To look at him and think "terrorist?" To leave that context out when talking about October 7 is willful distortion. It's lying by omission in the most devastating way. Your approach to the question of condemnation is by far the best i've seen. Thank you for your thoughtful, philosophical and altogether human compassion.
He needs to be loved and inspired to be good.
If he wants Gaza to be great, then the path is via self-actualization (wujuud, fanaa fillah, haqiqa, baqaa billah maarifa), perfection, excellence, merit. His own self-actualization will inspire other Palestinians to achieve self-actualization and then Palestine will become heaven (jannah) on earth.
@@AnAn___ if lessons on humility, dignity, courage, steadfastness are to be learned we only need to look at Palestinians who have taught us and are continuing to teach us about what it is to remain human when facing such unremitting daily adversity, humiliation, vanton violence, dispossession, cruel and inhuman treatment at the hands of the illegal occupying regime which violates in total impunity ?and does so every day since before 1948) its erga omnes responsibilities because it is protected by its godfather the US, godmother Britain and all the other willing vassalised lackeys.
Free Palestine
@@sorayaboyd9275 Why in your view has the Palestinian economy done so badly since Oslo started in 1993. Doesn't this suggest that Palestinian self governance has been mixed at best?
Palestine was an asian tiger economic miracle in the 1970s and 1980s.
@@AnAn___ Evidence for this? Prior to Oslo, it was 100% occupied, now a few Bantu towns are Palestinian controlled, when your external roads are 100% controlled and shut by an occupier are you really free???
@@gahmed8047 Look up real GDP growth in Palestine in the 1970s and 1980s. The Palestinian economy deteriorated after Oslo 1993.
Hard to post links without the comment being eaten up.
Thank you for the brilliant analysis. I teach American Studies in Cairo University, Egypt. Your talk touches upon many themes we deal with. Thank you for the secular humanism, and for much more.
Also realize, the Palestinians have a just cause, you ABSOLUTELY can't even say what he will or will not do in the future especially right after a traumatic event. HIs pain will heal, but also he will not forget, and mature to grow into a man.
Actually not standing up, and not fighting back is completely contradictory to what you say is moral. It is unmoral to not do so! If someone runs over your house, beats up your parents, etc and to quote Prof. Rudolph Ware, " There is no moral equivalence between the violence of the colonizer and that of the colonized, Colonized and oppressed people have a moral obligation to resist. If the Zionist Entity commits an aggressive act of theft they have committed an immoral abomination, but if you permit this when you have the capacity to permit thus when you can resist you are also guilty of moral failing, it s not just your right to resist it is your responsibility to resist to keep harm from reaching the children.Your not supposed to let people kidnap your children and lock them up interminably , you're not supposed to let people violently abuse and sexually exploit] your people if you have the capacity to resist."
Thank you for your analysis. I hope you reach all those whose heart and mind has become dull and self righteous. I also hope that your analysis and the unfiltered testimony of this child help decision makers in this war to realize what terrible harm they are causing.
Thank you for listening and your kind words.
Thanks for this, Mister Ambassador of elegant thinking to the People’s republic of TH-cam.
I aim to please. Thanks for lending me the ear and some space to try to think out loud here... its much appreciated.
@@JayShapiroDilemmaHostI have to aim to think out loud in such a well-reasoned and eloquent manner! Very interesting analysis. I was actually looking for discussion of how to answer this question, and other such questions. I saw this video of this boy some time ago, it stuck with me. I need to listen again to find the right word to describe what I feel and think about those who are responsible for the horrific harms on the Palestinians. The soldier who did this to him? Those who have caused children to die buried and crushed under the rubble? The ideology that is trying to erase them? It all needs to be reckoned with, the systems dismantled, and those who have committed the crimes need to face their “charges” so to speak, and make reparations for all the harms.
@@JayShapiroDilemmaHostas a proud supporter of Israel and Jewish self determination I think It’s better to ask people if they support or celebrate Hamas
@@Gphilly819
Apartheid lover 😘
This is refreshingly intelligent. Thank you. Indeed, this 'question' needs to be addressed more deeply.
I like your take on this. But all through this video i kept wondering how a freedom fighter can be among the condemned he has a right to fight and resist and even take revenge. Because evil requires only inaction to win. And in the case of a freedom fighter the colonial power is certainly evil.
I hear you but I think on a personal and existential level we can cross into that realm of condemned... Much more in that alienated way i mentioned.
@@JayShapiroDilemmaHost yes on a personal level I could grasp that no one wants to do horrible stuff to others. But I reckon when you feel justified your conscience agrees
@@mrfarax4944 Israel is a highly narcissistic society (I normally hate such generalisations, but it's a fairly small and highly mobile society... people move there to join in the fight, and people who can't stand it leave, so there is a selection process that enforces it in this case)... mostly, parents hit their children far too hard, far too young, creating an unexplained feeling of resentment and unjust victimisation, we might call it a "persecution complex". Their education system teaches them things about other people with the same name ("Jews") creating a sense that this feeling is a result of their identity as Jewish people. This reinforces narcissism on both the individual, and population levels (you find similar things in other countries, just usually as a much lower portion of the population). The feeling of being "the victim" mutes the conscience, which is why narcissism tends to be sociopathic, and refuses to accept responsibility for harms carried out against others. The goal in Gaza is simple... maximise the cruelty to "send a message", make sure "they" know to never try anything ever again. They call it "deterrence", the cruelty is something that they are entitled to. I call 'em Nazissists, it was the exact same mindset in Germany, and because the feeling is one from previous trauma not connected in any way to the victims, no amount of killing ever quenches it... in fact, as the feeling doesn't change, the desperation increases, the killing becomes impatient... the angry "why won't you learn your lesson?!@!" beating... it doesn't stop unless somebody steps in.
That guy from The Atlantic, Graeme Wood should watch this, though I kind of doubt it would change his mind.
Israel has committed about thirty October 7ths at this point.
Asking "Do you condemn Hamas?" is a trap because it forces a binary response to a complex issue, creating a false dichotomy. It pressures the person to align with one side, oversimplifying their views and potentially misrepresenting their stance. The question diverts the conversation from more nuanced discussions about the broader conflict, underlying causes, and possible solutions. It is designed to corner the respondent into making a politically charged statement, rather than fostering genuine dialogue.
so you want a genuine dialogue? answer this do you condemn the killing of civilians , raping women,
abducting children?
I wish tens of thousands more could be listening to your deep, thoughtful podcasts. Please team up with more people like yourself to be more effective in deseminating these wise words.
@@SeekerofknowlegeandTruth-ci3hs trying. I started going public when I realized my much more famous contemporaries were failing miserably though. 🔥
So much wisdom. Our media is incapable of deep thought like these.
Thanks for listening.
The video is very engaging and makes sense. I can’t imagine anyone working at CNN, MSNBC, or Fox who has the ability to understand what you are saying. The people we see representing these media corporations are propagandists and actors with no journalistic integrity.
What a fantastic and refreshing perspective focusing on the psyche. More of this kind of communication is needed to build bridges and achieve success in peace
What I hate about the 'Do you condemn Hamas' question is that it's meant to create a pre-condition for any further discussion. If you say 'no', that's it, your obviously an anti-semite and a terrorist sympathizer and are automatically precluded from any further discussion. It doesn't matter much to me, but this is how America Media is chosing to 'filter' the opinions on Gaza that are deemed to be permissable. But I do not understand why the US is prepared to sacrifice so much for Israel. The only reason I keep coming back to again and again is goold old racism. I did like the video though thanks.
Many nonmuslims have long supported the muslim brotherhood and hamas as hammers to hurt syncretic good liberal muslims with. Ergo, isn't asking people "Do you condemn Hamas" useful to ferret out the nonmuslims who support islamists who attack good liberal muslims?
It is SO racism... the only reason we don't call them white supremacists is because Jews are excluded from being considered equally "white", letting them wear the word "Jew" as a klan hood... even racism is racismmer!
Resources and oil is the reason why. Also America uses Isr@el to keep the middle east under their thumb, and also keep an eye on Russia and China which are right next door.
@@la6136 Don't follow your comments. Do you mean that as a large energy producer and exporter the USA wants high global energy prices and for countries to reduce energy production?
Why in your view is almost every muslim majority country in the world anti Hamas or in conflict with Hamas?
Because most are US's vassals and as such submissive and obedient
Thankyou "And some win Peace who spend the skill of words to sweeten despair, of finding consolation where life has but one dark end". - Walter De La Mare 🦋
Who are we to condemn the slave who has been beaten, humiliated , tortured for years and once in a while finds a way to hit back his oppressor?
Absolutely agree with you, and so hopeful that you will speak out.
I’ve been anti death penalty and remember when it was deemed cruel and unusual punishment.
Hamas is comprised of humans, not demons, with families and morals, like must of us. Great discussion!
Thank you.
That’s true, Islam has guidelines on when is it permissible to fight and guess what?! The Quran clearly puts in terms of resisting oppression and mentions being drive out of your home is a context for resistance.
Here in America we LOVE our guns because we believe that we have the right to defend ourselves. Well if we extend the same right to the Palestinians…
Let’s not get carried away here and credit any of this stuff to a religion. Islam is a religion founded by a war leader who conquered the whole Mediterranean in a few decades.
You can find in Islam any quote that you want to justify any action you feel like taking, like in all abrahamic and I suspect other religions.
Let’s not make this about religion, because it’s not. It’s about empire maintenance and control of water and arable lands.
I’m very glad the algorithm brought me this video. It is a helpful tool to think-with. Thank you!
Muslims families used to wholeheartedly name their boys "Israel" - until the advent of the European-derived ideology of Zionism... *_"Zionism is an European ideology of Ashkenazi nationalism that seeks to colonize Palestine in order to establish a Jewish nationalist state."_* - Smadar Lavie, Mizrahi Jewish (Palestinian Jew) historian on the ashkenazi-ruled aparth€¡d state of Israel, professor of anthropology, UC Davis, marched w/Reuven Abergel of the Israeli Black Panthers for a One-State Solution Equality for All
That is a useful and accurate definition. Thank you for it.
I actually have a friend named Israel. I don't know why his father named him like that. Since he is Muslim and I am sure he is against Israel as is the rest of our country.
@washimakram2676 - it may be an objective learning of 'Israel' thru the Quran, as opposed the politically-imposed experience of it as most people are familiar with... btw here's the video about Muslims naming their children 'Israel' as explained in length by an Imam: th-cam.com/video/SVo4E5zijVA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=LK3jpwyhX5HIfR9a
Many famous Rabbis from the Talmud are called Rabbi Ismael
In reference to Moslems’s belief and liberty to name their offspring with prophets and messengers’s names:
Simply put in Al-Islamic context as follows:
-Our father Adam, our Mother Hawaah(Eve) then their descendants Noah, Ibrahim, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob( his name also Abdullah means servant of Allah The Almighty Creator and also his name is Israel, then their descendants like David, Suleiman, Joseph,Moses, Arun, Issa(Jesus) and Mohammad (the seal of prophethood and messengers to all mankind till the end of time), they all very revered and loved so much by Moslems. Al-Islam is the submission to Allah The Almighty Creator alone and following his messengers and prophets.
Difference between a messenger and a prophet is a MESSENGER was sent with a complete legislation to the people he was sent to ( his is a messenger and prophet also) however a PROPHET is sent to affirm and confirm what was the MESSENGER was sent for.
Every Messenger is a Prophet but not every prophet is a messenger. Peace and blessings of Allah The Almighty Creator be upon Mohammad the seal of prophethood to all mankind and all messengers and prophets preceded him.
-About the issue of CREATION simply put in Al-Islamic context:
Father of Humanity is Adam( had No father or Mother) Created by Allah The Almighty Creator Who Created Eve( Hawaah from a Adam’s rib) peace be upon them both, then humanity as we now a result of Propagation. Adam was created from Earth’s dust that same dust we will end up to be after we cease to exist on the face of this Earth. Same result like that of some human’s believe to cremate their deceased one which would be DUST. Same result for plants, animals and everything living after dehydration and crushing them all ends in DUST and the same result with the mountains and toughest rocks would be crushed and end up being DUST, all this by The will of Allah The Almighty their and our Creator.
-The difference of all this is HUMANS and Jinn are the only creatures given the full freedom of free will BUT they are accountable for the choices they make individually ( no such thing as eternal sin)and rewarded accordingly ( Hell or Paradise) may Allah The Almighty Creator guide us all and all humans to Al-Islam.
-Every point made backed up in Islam according to The Quran ( actual word of The Creator directly to any human with no intermediary, read all to verify, but before you that clear your heart and mind of any indoctrination and prejudice, best done after taken your shower and got dressed with modesty).
-About the point or points noted above in addition to the recently discovered Big-Bang Theory.
يقول الله الخالق سبحانة في سورة الأنبياء أيه 30:{أَوَلَمْ يَرَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا أَنَّ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ كَانَتَا رَتْقًا فَفَتَقْنَاهُمَا ۖ وَجَعَلْنَا مِنَ الْمَاءِ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ حَيٍّ ۖ أَفَلَا يُؤْمِنُونَ (30)}.
Allah The Almighty Creator saying in Surat Al-Anbiyaa, Aya 30: {Have those who disbelieved not seen that the heavens and the earth were once a joined entity, and We separated them apart, and made from water every living thing? Will they not believe? (30)}.
Explanation of the above Aya:
God Allah The Almighty Creator says, warning of His complete power and His great authority in His creation of things, and His subjugation of all creatures. He said: (Have those who disbelieved not seen?) That is, those who deny His divinity and worship others with Him. Have they not known that God is the One who is independent of creation, and tyrant in His plan? So how is it appropriate for them to worship other than Him? He associates with Him all else, did they not see (that the heavens and the earth were joined together), meaning: they were all connected to each other, closely knit and accumulated, some of them on top of others in the beginning of the matter, so this one was separated from the other? So He made the heavens seven, and the earth seven, and separated the heaven of the world from the earth with air, so it rained and the earth grew. That is why he said: (And We made from water every living thing. Will they not believe?) That is: while they watched the created things happen little by little with their eyes, and that is evidence of the existence of the Creator, the Chosen One, the One who is able to do what He wills.
In every thing there is a sign indicating that it is one.
May Allah The Almighty Creator guide us all to the truth of the straight path of Al-Islam and follow the way of Muhammad his last messenger to mankind till the end of time peace and blessings be upon him and all those preceded him to our father Adam and Hawaah.
If you have any question about any point made hopefully I’m still living, I would entertain an answer by the will of Allah The Almighty our Creator. May you all be under the fold of peace and blessings of The Almighty Allah The Creator of us and all that exists, seen or unseen, known or the unknown, Ameen Ameen Ameen.
Why condemning Hamas? Why not condemning al atrocities related to injustices?
I think I address this in the video? I reserve ¨condeming¨ for people rather than actions or even atrocities.
Great show. Thanks Jay. Forgiveness is the key to diplomacy.
Apologies are powerful
An apology is the first step in forgiving yourself and forgiving others.
Apologies are powerful.
How often do you hear those two lines?
Often in our society we think of apologies as a sign of weakness. “Never say you’re sorry. “ How many times of you heard that?
I say that an apology can level the playing field.
It can defuse an explosive situation like a magic incantation.
Ultimately, it allows others to see and hear that you can take responsibility for your actions.
And the most beautiful side effect?
You can forgive yourself for carrying around that burden in the first place.
Powerful
Healing is a matter of time and forgiveness. But it is also a matter of great opportunity.
Let it go.
Apologize.
Unburden.
Communicate
Nemir did not say he wanted to avenge himself on random Israelis. He wants to avenge himself specifically, on the soldier who brutalized and humiliated him. I think this is important to observe.
The more condemnable party is the one who both harms directly, and then twists the psyche of their victim through their infliction of harm and degradation. Even Jesus, for those who call themselves Christian, tells followers that to ruin the innocence of any is condemnable (ie., “a stone hung around his neck and thrown into the sea”).
I hear you. It's my linguistic preference to condemn persons rather than parties or groups etc... And yes I know what Nemr said, but if that soldier is not in front of him, it is possible that his justified anger and hatred will transfer to others. spend some time with the history of the native americans and you'll see a lot of difficult questions like this one.
@@JayShapiroDilemmaHost of course you’re aware of Nemr’s meaning, but in case anyone else failed to catch it. I can certainly see that phenomena (of victim becoming perpetrator) in many occasions throughout human history. I think a likely outcome is precisely what you described in becoming the depersonalized soldier.
This is a great response to the absurd question, btw. 👍🍉🍉🍉
I hope your voice is amplified more on this topic. For no one can accuse you of being biased for one side. You very well understand the threat of radical islam while Completely empathize with the Humanity of Palestinians. This phenomenon is colossaly rare in this issue
Thank you... I address this in the later portion of the video and maybe use a different word than ´threat´ in the particular context of the question of this essay :)
Hamas party members are personally quite conservative and orthodox, but the party is not Islamist. The party is not seeking to impose Islam on non-Muslims. The court system in Gaza is secular with an underlying Muslim flavor, much as the USA has Christian "flavored" courts. Palestinians are a religiously and politically diverse group. There are Christians, Marxists, agnostics, atheists in Gaza right now. Several political parties still exist there.
To my mind, once you know the facts.....2 million people, living in a concentration camp, being targeted for 'mowing the lawn', having hundreds killed randomly, watching their families being murdered, arrested, having their food, medicine, water and electric cut off for a month at a time....for decades and decades, I wondered why Israel didn't expect Oct.7th, and what took Hamas so long! No one wants to live under the boot heel of a maniac tyrant!
Literally everything you’re describing happened after October 7th. It’s very problematic to do either.
They have had all of those before October 7th.
It was happening since 1948....learn your history. Check out Norman Finklestein anf Chris Hedges for the correct info. @lazer8776
Thank you for this.
"Do you condemn Nat Turner?"
What I am dreading the most is what we come out of these horrors if we persist in letting this continue. 😢😢
I condemn them who condemn HAMAS.
Good morning, I have just watched this video after coming across your channel for the first time. I want to say thank you for sharing understanding, truth and justice.
This is the best video explaining the question sofar. Thank you so much Jay. That boy reminds me of the story of one of the founders of H. Rantisi
When you asked the essential question, (paraphrased) "...Can one be blinded by divine vision such that the murder in front of them feels like nothing, or worse feels like ecstasy..." my mind went right to mentalities of colonial settlers, whether those following Manifest Destiny, Zionism or some other ideology... While here you are primarily focused on the condemnation to violence that results from oppression, I wonder about the other type of "condemnation" though that isn't perhaps the best word, but whatever it is that causes a person to lose their humanity not because of oppression, but simply out of the sense of glory of being somehow a member of "God's Chosen" elite who can do no wrong.
I think many are motivated to implement God's will on earth; where God's will is interpreted by them.
@@AnAn___ i think you are giving people too much credit to suggest they are even doing their own interpretation of gods will. most people do not think individually, they just follow blindly.
You have provided a very good account of the mind set of all settler colonialists
@@sorayaboyd9275 What is a settler colonialist?
Mass migration has been common around much of the world for a long time.
@@AnAn___ Please stop. Your apologia for a rogue state like Israel feeding on war crimes every day isn't working anymore, and you should be ashamed of your position.
Thank-you for all your work on this issue. ❤
DO YOU CONDEM IZRAEHELL.?..
Thank you for this! It captures so much of the thoughts I have had about this, and provides additional perspectives around which my views may evolve.
My reaction thus far has been based on the principle that I do not "condemn" people. I may "condemn"/disavow/reject actions as immoral, but even insofar as I "condemn" the action of, for example, murdering an innocent civilian, this condemnation tells the listener nothing about my thoughts/positions on the specific matter being discussed-in this case, the October 7 raid by Hamas/Palestinians into Israel). For this reason, I agree with the arguments here and elsewhere that the question "Do you condemn Hamas?" is essentially never asked in good faith, but rather is employed as a rhetorical weapon.
That being said, your video is among the best ways that I have seen this conundrum addressed. Thanks again!
I listened to this two months ago, and note you have not posted anymore videos. Maybe I didn’t leave a comment which was remiss of me. Your argument was thoughtful and compassionate. I do admire your video interviews and podcasts. You understand opposing sides. It is the holding of two opposing emotions, understanding of two opposing points of view, that is a measure of emotional maturity, a quality that is all too lacking in our leaders today. The video of the abused little boy you showed was very moving. He naturally expressed his rage and outrage at his treatment, and only when it came to expressing how he wanted revenge did he begin to cry, as if he was aware that he was abandoning his conscience in favour of the lower expression of revenge, his only recourse of action.
@@lcbrittain thank you so much for the kind words. I am not a regular poster but please do keep an eye out for occasional analysis. I am going to comment on the US election and more soon ❤️
This is an AMAZING essay by the way. Thank you very much.
Deeply intelligent and thoughtful take on the question. I would imagine Piers Morgan doesn't have the intellectual capacity to engage with such a take as this. Either that or he wouldn't care for such a take. Thank you Mr Shapiro for giving a deep take on this subject.
Very thought provoking analysis - thank you for compiling and presenting it for us.
It’s a very intriguing, interesting and amazing analysis of the condemnations. I despise Piers and people like him when starting the interviews with the condemnations. It’s very tricky and traps for this question when a person can and will lose a career. I just see Piers looking for profits and audiences. I love your show and subscribe to it. I hope you will invite into your show giant inspiration, intellectual, knowledge, academic and character such as Norman Finkelstein, Noam Chomsky, Rashid Khalidi, Ali Abunimah, Max Blumenthal, Mehdi Hasan, and Bassem Yousef. Peace, Salom and Salam.
Thank you so much for keeping an eye on me. To be transparent I´m working on a book (not entirely focused on Zionism, but will certainly take a few hard looks at it) about moral philosophy and history. So, I´m not putting a full effort into growing the show and pulling in huge audiences. But I will continue to spin out some essays and important conversations when I feel like I really have something to say. So I really appreciate the subscriptions... but don´t expect the daily commentary that some people like to put out :)
Exceptional content. With thanks and gratitude..
I hope you grow up to a free Palestine Nimer. And if you don’t then I will not condemn you for fighting for Palestine’s freedom.
💔 heartbreaking... but beautifully said. I wont condemn him either... but i do fear he may find himself condemned in that PTSD style.
I agree with you. His life and many others that are oppressed around the world have been, as you put it, “condemned”. But I can’t help thinking this could have easily been me. If I was born there inside as of in America and I’ll be damned if I get treated that way and just take it. If I’m dead either way then I won’t go out without a fight. Violent? Yes but it’s in our nature as humans. To just take hit back when we get it for no reason. It’s ugly man it’s ugly and I cried when I saw his video. Thanks for the thoughtful video. It helped me move my thoughts forward
@@JayShapiroDilemmaHostthere only ongoing ptsd in occupied Palestine yet Palestinians remain dignified unlike their tormentors
Another way to frame it is, "Do you condemn natives Americans, for fighting against Custer?"
There is a reason that Malcolm X often said, "By any means necessary."
Also see Frederick Douglass, "Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."
I loved hearing you talk. I am not your sycophant, but I admire your ability to speak so precisely, and your superior intellectually compared with most other people, especially for an American. I just discovered you on TH-cam. I am also an admirer of Mr. Norman Finkelstein. Have you any commentary on him? Oh, by the way, let me mention I am a retired medical scientist, 74, from Britain. My parents were poor factory workers with hardly any education, but were good enough to talk to me about the holocaust and racism. I was the first in my family to go to a University and obtain a couple of degrees. I now live in the US, but I hope to leave in a couple of years. I have had an interesting life. As for voting in the election, I will for Kamala. I think that those of us who care have some chance of pressuring the Democrats over Palestine. If Trump is elected, I think it will be the end of the Palestinians, as he has already said Netanyahu should :"finish the job". Therefore, I chose the lesser evil. There are a host of other reasons I will vote for the democrats, such as supporting women's rights and national healthcare. I believe reform is valuable as revolution is not likely to happen soon and who knows what its leaders would turn out as. If I had a time machine, I would be the Lawrence of Arabia to the Native Americans, encouraging them to unite as many tribes as possible and to either annihilate European invaders as they reach the shore or at least set up a national government to deport these illegal immigrants unless they were willing to integrate with the Native American way of life. I see you have hundreds of responses, so I do not anticipate a response from you, But I hope for one.
i try to check the comments regularly and I hear you loud and clear. thank you for the comment. I understand all the votes this year... including my own blank ballot. I was only half joking about the call for revolution ;)
@@JayShapiroDilemmaHost Thanks for replying. I was hoping you would respond to my enquiry about Mr Finkelstein, what you think about his thoughts on Palestine. I admire him tremendously. And I wanted you to reconsider voting democratic, not because I love them at all, but because I think the election of Trump will make us all lose hope for the fate of several millions of Palestinians. If Trump is elected Palestinians will be genocided (if that is a word). Please reconsider your opinion since you are a powerful influencer that could bring more votes to help stop Trump. I also confess I was thinking of not voting for Biden because of his support to Netanyahu. But I realize that the election of Trump brings that existential word into the conversation.
During American slavery when Nat Turner (and can you imagine what abominations & atrocities he saw as even a child during slavery) committed his group slave uprising, the Abolitionists *didn't* -- *refused* to -- condemn Nat Turner.
They *didn't* say that the uprising justified slavery; they *didn't* say that slavery should be strengthened; they *didn't* say that there should be *more* slavery; they didn't say that more whips & weapons should be sent to the slave owners.
They condemned the repugnant, racist, indeed violent system that consequently *created* , in that sense, Nat Turner. And that slave uprisings under such a repugnant & brutal racist ideology are *of course* what's to be expected! And that the answer to slave uprisings is to abolish slavery itself!
Dig into the archives of “the liberator” newspaper and you’ll see they certainly talk about the “lamentable actions” and “horrors” done by the revolting slaves… but very much do what I also did of underscoring how it should highlight the brutality and inhumanity of the institution of slavery. chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn84031524/1831-09-10/ed-1/
@@JayShapiroDilemmaHost "lamentable" & "horrors" -- of course they were -- lamentable that such horribly intergenerationally oppressed people finally feel they have to resort to such a thing -- does not equate with *condemnable* on the part of an uprising of members of generations upon generations of people who grew up, from the time they were the earliest cognizant children, witnessing & experiencing the visually ineffable atrocities of slavery.
As I said, the Abolitionists -- who knew that the history of slavery didn't start on the day of Nat Turner's uprising -- condemned *slavery itself* , not Nat Turners' uprising.
One of the founders of Hahmahs as a 6 year-old witnessed one of his parents killed by the Zyohnists. I'm sure that all the members of Hahmahs grew up witnessing such Zyohnist/Izraheli atrocities like the gen 0 cyde of Dier Yassin.
I have a Palestinian friend who wouldn't leave a dry eye in the house, telling Westerners even from what he experienced as a *child* ! And you'd be able to hear a pin drop in an auditorium after what he said he's witnessed. And while my friend is not in Hahmahs, everyone who heard just his childhood experiences alone would certainly understand why their would be a Hahmahs (besides Israel largely creating it) & other armed Palestinian resistance groups. We'd *alll* be ready to pick up a guhn if we experienced such things by a racist foreign entity. It is said that the American colonialists went to *revolutionary war* against Britain over considerably less!
And what was Israel founded on?...: *literally terrorism* ! Including assassinations. Groups that even Britain & other Western European countries & their media called terrorists...: like the Irgun & Stern terrorist organizations & the Hagannah militia.
The Western govts & MSM speak of "post-Hahmahs". Is the West serious after even *arming* this Israeli gen 0 cyde!?... Which is the very reason *why* Israel is committing gen 0 cyde. Analogous to then Japan's gen 0 cydal "raype of Nanking".
In both cases both countries (im)morally wanted no going back. Both countries wanted to crush any subsequent, consequent, & *any* future resistance of the oppressed through the wanton *gen 0 cyde* of them. And in Israel's case because, after this, *of course* there will be another 'Hahmahs'. Only the Western govts' racism would think there *wouldn't* be. "Do you condemn Hahmahs?"...: that's a racist Eurocentric question?
Read "Gandhi's Statement On Palestine *1938*"! Gandhi, a pacifist, said that, "in the face of overwhelming odds, nothing can be said about [against] Palestinian forms of resistance."
Einstein said, "If after 2,000 years of wandering, we Jews cannot learn to make honest pacts with the [Palestine's] Arabs, we will deserve *all* that befall us." (Italicization added.)
And Einstein: "It would be my greatest sadness to see Jews do to others *much* of what Nazis did to Jews." (Italicization added.)
And as the anti-Zyohnist & prominent anti-racist Jewish-American activist, Tim Weiss, once said: "To this end 6 million died?"
Nimr is likely also crying over the memories of the pain and fear and massive loss of family. Multigenerational trauma breeds more of it.
Brilliant thanks for your excellent analysis
Most Sincerely Michael Foley 🤔
Hey Jay, it's Miles, the Brit you and Zara ran into in Madrid on Saturday (I think) Sorry I never got around to texting you guys, my phone and all my cards were stolen Tuesday morning so I lost your number 😫
So glad I was able to find the podcast though! looking forward to making my way through it
So glad you found me here. I will reach out. and sorry to hear about the phone and cards... not a good look for this city :-/
I condemn the condition that created Hamas. 😊😊
Anyone going on Pier Morgan's show,should verbatim.Ask piers if he'll agree not to interrupt no matter how long.
I can't imagine how anyone could do such a thing to this child. If I were an Israeli I would be very angry to realize that I have been programmed to hate the Palestinians to this degree. With lies! I hope he recovers well.
Thank you 🍀🕊️
I was 4 years old in Rwanda when the genocide took place.. I lost everyone except my mum, And I remember before the genocide I wanted to be a doctor or a priest, immediately after the genocide all I wanted was to join the Army so I can find people responsible for killing my siblings and injuring my mum. I wanted this for a long time but luckily I was able to leave that environment and live in the UK where I was allowed to grow and play and feel safe. I stopped feeling the urge to join the army and my
Drive to help people returned and it what I now do.
I´m sorry you experienced that. the factors that existed (including your own will of course) from the time you were 4 until now are really important... if the political situation had only festered and you were confined to remain in Rwanda and perhaps live under a brutal occupation controlled by the tribe responsible for your families murders... it could have gone differently.
We all have to do what we can to make sure Nemr's story goes down a path a bit closer to yours than the fighter he might become... I don't think it's too late.
@@JayShapiroDilemmaHost 100% in my experience its about humanising the “other” and seeing stories like Nemr shows you the true human cost not just the numbers 35 thousand is a lot sure but Nemr is the true cost.
Power to Nemr!!
I presented my comment to those who like P. Morgan. Im sorry but the comment wasnt intended for the content creator. Hopefully that clears up something but I think its important for everyone to read what I wrote
I hope Piers Morgan watches this wideo!
Powerful lecture
I might not agree with the ideology views of Hamas however I certainly agree with the idea that any people that are being oppressed and subjugated have every right and duty to fight back in any way that they can. And if you compare hamasa's attack on October 7th to Israel's attack since then Hama stands up as a much more moral actor in the fact that they've killed far more military targets than civilian. The fact that they took Israeli hostages and have been able to release them alive while Israel has killed their own hostages while smokescreening that they're trying to save them says a lot as well. And no one even talks about the hostages made up of children, women, elderly and her my soldiers who are being in prison under military law with a 99% conviction rate in Israel. So everything that anybody can throw at Hamas for being guilty for can easily be flipped and shown that Israel is a far worse perpetrator of those crimes then Hamas can ever be.
The interview with the kid, Nemr, is so painful to watch and listen.
Appreciate the thoughtful presentation, gives me food to chew on. Previously my response is simply, I don't condemn hamas as terrorists based on what I know the past 20 years, but I do believe they also commit terrorist acts, for example Oct 7. So I believe a group can commit terrorists acts and not be terrorists....in the end is what is the solution, I appreciate yours as looking at many factors, or dominos....and agree the first to fall needs to be Zionism (although it appears to just keep growing stronger.)
Hamas were terrorists long before October 7th.
I haven’t watched the video yet but I will. I was asked ‘do you condemn khamas?’ and I replied ‘do you condemn the IDF?’ I was also asked if I’m antisemitic? I answered ‘no, I want fairness, equality, and justice for all’.
Thank you!
I condemn the system and the enablers for the system that creates things like Hamas.
I could say the same thing towards the algerian revolution against the french
Very much so... for everyone reading this who has not yet watched THE BATTLE OF ALGIERS (1966) ... correct that immediately! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_of_Algiers
On what planet does democracy equal apartheid and genocide
This is everything. I remember the bloodlust the US experienced after 911 and was dismayed by it. I recognized that my humanist traditions were partyly responsible to why i didn’t see more death and suffering wasn't a good solution to dealing with that tragedy.
I hate to say it but I don't think the people who usually ask that tired question are intellectually capable of appreciating your well articulated academic response.
If you are kept under occupation what do you do, you fight back for your freedom and your childrens freedom. Violence is ugly and not justified, we in the west have not endured occupation or the consequences of war until we do we can't judge or condem
I cry for Palestinians pain . It's unbearable 😭😭😭😭😭 free Palestine 🇦🇪💔🇦🇪💞💞💞
To delegitimize resistance they call u a terrorist. We seen it happen in Iraq and Afghanistan when the native people fought a foreign army on their land.
Scott Horton
Title: FLASHBACK: How Bibi Empowered Hamas
Link: th-cam.com/video/nbSgAiFk3zw/w-d-xo.html
Duration: 15:21
Channel: Breaking Points @breakingpoints
Title: Blowback: How Israel Helped Create Hamas.
Link: th-cam.com/video/o7grSsuFSS0/w-d-xo.html
Duration: 6:11
Channel: The Intercept
Well said. You navigated this discussion beautifully.
What’s scary and disgusting is This boy was made to suffer deliberately so it’s by design if you don’t create this hatred how will you justify your genocides
The question is, more often than not, a baited question.
Great video! If I may, I have a book recommendation for you. Just finished reading Robert Sapolsky's book - Determined: A science of life without free will. It's a tough read. He completely changed my view on human behavior and if I'm being honest on life entirely. l'm still recovering from that...and I'm utterly convinced that I have to read it at least two more times just to make sense of it. Cheers
Oh thanks so much! I know his work well. I take a slightly different run at the free will question (something like Erich Fromm´s writing from Man For Himself) ... but i certainly know that determinism is ultimately inescapable. I have a long strange essay that touches on that topic over here whatjaythinks.com/essays/2019/12/23/part-1-of-libertarians-deserve-better-critics-food-first-philosophy-later if you are interested :)
Thank you for this video. I hope it gets to a lot of people.
Thanks for watching. Much appreciated.
I wish your baby brother Ben would see this video.
🤣
One word .... Resistance
Condemnation should be based on how well informed a person is.
This is true and also works well with the ideas from Dan Dennett i briefly mentioned.
Jay, I suggest you hug your mother and father. They brought you up in comfort and love the best they could. Conservative Judaism of the late 20th century was built by Jews who came from precarious backgrounds, suffered through American and European antisemitism culminating in Holocaust. They didn’t have the luxury to think deeply about politics. They were happy to work hard and put their children through Ivy League schools. As the result of their success, you can afford to search your own truth and live the life of privilege while fighting for the causes of “oppressed” people. You didn’t listen to your mother, nor to Yasmine Muhammed. You condemn Zionism, but can’t condemn Hamas. You condemn all Israelis for occasional brutality of descendants of refugees and holocaust survivors, but justify Islamic barbarism. Good luck fighting for justice, Jay!
@@hirschjudy no I don't. But thank you for trying to listen. ❤️
Gracias!! Thank you. From the beginning I found that question false, sense deprived and accustive, putting you between the wall and the sword ( a spanish saying). I couldn't have answered with "yes" but also not with "no". Your essay has cleared up my thoughts and doubts.
The palestinians will not suffer the same fate of the native Americans that is clear.
Man, what an essay.
I’m so glad I found you. I’m struggling to keep a coherent moral stance in this mess.
This was a beautiful journey. I almost dread to look up the rest of your content and find out that the rest of it is yet another culture wars boilerplate channel 😅
Thank you. I think you'll like it here.
To codemn Hamas would be the same as condoning the nazis.