I wouldn't call Twin a meme deck. It hasn't been legal for 8 years. We have no clue how good it could be. Maybe the correct build is just an Izzet murktide list that happens to have twin.
@@mattm7798 I don't think its a meme, but the problem is the better twin is, the more decks will have to start putting in answers to twin. And twin crumbles to the good removal in the format now. So I can't imagine it going above tier 2 at most because its an easy deck to have answers for.
You have to make them have it. I don't know why he didn't even try it. That just gives your opponent infinite counter spells if you don't even make them have it.
I was so eagerly awaiting this video since I heard the news, I'm thrilled it's so early. And the added icing on the cake, every single game Seth plays the Ring won't make an appearance.
with FOMO at least if you get bricked by an indestructible creature you can draw into cards that help you deal with the board state that is causing you issues.
25:00 Ive been hearing from people smarter than me that the reason why they specifically unbanned mopal, looting, and zenith is because those are 3 matchups twin historically excels against and they wanted twin to be actually viable (which it almost definitely wouldn't be if the meta wasn't shaken up with these). If twin keeps these decks in check that sounds like a fun metagame to me.
The unban is just to get the most amount of players back to the game... When looting was legal, no one could beat it. And affinity had a fair game against twin.
24:03 My thing about the Opal unban is that I feel like it was almost a necessary evil to make the artifact decks actually competitive again. Sure you did have some one the fringes, but they weren't going to be anything more than fringe without the help of Opal. Plus, it basically revives Lantern control all on its own, and I'm here for modern to have Lantern control back as a deck.
That jeskai twin deck with Orin Chants and 3feris was spicy :O that opponent was cooking hard into the protect your combo aspect. Love your build too, its super nostalgic :'). I miss the days of bolt snap bolt.
Hey Seth, in 55:07 you could have just played splinter twin and then if your opponent had an answer cast snapcaster to flashback flare of denial sacrificing snapcaster to free cast it instead of trying to dig for it with thundertrap trainer. In this case it didn't really matter, but I'm pretty sure it came up in a few other games as well so it's just a line to be aware of (unless I'm missing something and it's not possible for some reason).
Flashback is an alternative cost and you can only pay one alternative cost per spell, so can't cast for free from the Graveyard. Judging for the win has a video on that that lists the situations where it does work, sadly youtube doesn't allow links
@@Tekarusame To clarify further, since snapcaster specifically says "the card gains flashback with cost equal to mana value" the only option is to pay the flashback cost. Other cards which say "you may cast target card from your graveyard this turn" would work, but flashback as an ability only says you can cast the card for X mana. The more generic "you may cast X" is what opens up alternative costs.
control deck with a built in combo, its honestly feels very solid (and fair?) what i liked about Twin is that even though it felt very good, you definitely had to earn the match victories there were some very engaging games being played here
Maybe I'm just projecting my own feelings on the Faithless Looting banning, but I distinctly remember Seth being elated that it was banned, and had been talking about it needing to go for a while. But maybe that was just because of Hogaak, or I'm living in my own head :)
I think tempo twin is gonna be the truth. Either Grixis with psychic frog and Tamiyo or a delirium Twin list that threatens to win with DRC and Fomo. Jeskai control with Teferi and twin seems doable, but I think it's gonna be weak
I think Twin's best chance is a jeskai control shell. Lots of protection in counter spells, not to mention T3feri just preventing your opponent from interacting with you.
harbinger over blood moon is a surprise. I guess time will tell which is better based on the meta because it will probably take a few weeks to figure out what is legit and what is a meme.
My thinking is that turning everything into Islands cuts off red removal that could interact with the combo. Whether that makes it right, I'm still not sure.
I would like a Seth video on the history of splinter twin, the discovery, development, dominance, eventual banning, intervening years, and now finally the unban.
In match two i would have gone for the flames of anor instead of exarch when they cast the two target creativity because had all three modes destroying the treasure which prevents a two mana remove and with 5 lands only needed to see an untapped land in 3 draws to combo off. They get one less cruelty too
It's funny, because normally I do not like combo decks at all, but Twin is different. Maybe because it's control combo so it's not 100% in on the combo. Iono, i just know I love it and am super happy it's legal again in modern!
Instead of FOMO, why not have Corridor Monitor be another option? It can't do the tap down lands of Exarch or Pestermite, but it only costs 2 and can still be an option to put Twin onto. It also has a big butt to block with as it has the same baseline stats as Exarch. The lack of flash and it being an artifact does hurt, but as 1 of or 2 of, it could work for the combo.
Im a ygo player...is there no deck thats just plain counter ? Like that focuses on removing your resources? I saw thoughtsies (i think) and some other hand rip...is there no hand rip counter deck? I hear gydecks are big(dredge) so is it just not good?
There's an archetype called "UW (Blue/White) Control" that appears across all of the regularly-played formats that does exactly what you're thinking of. It is about 90% counters and removal, with the remaining 10% usually being Teferi, Hero of Dominaria as the win-condition by getting his ultimate off and decking your opponent by constantly tucking himself back into your deck so you never deck out. Many variants may use lands that create creature tokens alongside Teferi, or opt for other "big threats" to close out the game after denying onboard resources over multiple turns. This deck only really shows up at major events when there are T1 strategies that threaten to push the format into a T0 environment, as UW Control deck lists are usually customized with maindeck answers to the specific boogeyman deck(s) in a given format. In a healthy format, UW Control struggles from needing to have answers for all 4 major archetypes (Aggro, Midrange, Combo, Control/Tempo) instead of only 1-2 archetypes in an unhealth format, leaving your chance of success up to chance based on whether you have sidedeck cards that can answer your matchups. A very recent example of an unhealthy modern format was actually right before the previous B&R with a Combo deck that took 6(?) of the Top 8 spots in a major tournament. That is the kind of environment UW Control works best in, as you have a good idea of what decks are likely to show up, meaning you can streamline your main and side decks to answer those threats efficiently.
I think twin is gonna be the new “dredge” in that you have to bring something to hate on it in your list, and the second decks get light on twin hate one of the decks will just spike a tourney and then reset the meta
I just don’t see how that’s possible, so many free removal spells in the main board, you could tap out and still hold force and solitude to fiss. Twin will have a presence but I don’t think this will ever be oppressive.
Seth constantly complaining about one of the easiest decks to hate out will never get old. All the things to deal with other decks that were printed recently, all work against Amulet as well.
honestly with probe not in the deck anymore and all free counter magic twin should be more then fine really they could get rid of most of the free counterspells and twin would still be fine with git probe gone it tamed twin down by a wide margin in my opinion
See what's the fukin chance that his first game he just happens to fight another Splinter twin deck? Matching on all of the magic online games is just horrible apparently.
Seth advertises Splinter Twin, then refuses to do the thing that was advertised. Nobody cares if it works or not. We wanna see you try. It’s called against the odds for a reason 😂
The thing is that Mox Opal & Faithless Looting never deserved to be banned in the first place, so they definitely don't deserve to be rebanned whatsoever.
Modern's back and it feels amazing!!!!
Seth, please show us a New version of Mardu Pyromancer and Elfball! I wanna play both
Heck yeah
Been way to long😢
Seeing Seth on MODO again feels good, almost like reintroducing an endangered species to its native habitat
Same! Modern has been terrible for so long, seeing seth on Modo is like a hit of nostalgia.
So polite of the Jeskai player to dip out so Seth could have his mini podcast bit about the banlist.
Came here to watch Seth get spanked with a nostalgic (now meme) deck
I wouldn't call Twin a meme deck. It hasn't been legal for 8 years. We have no clue how good it could be. Maybe the correct build is just an Izzet murktide list that happens to have twin.
The removal is too good if it made it higher than tier 2 it would be supper easy to hate out of the meta
@@mattm7798 I don't think its a meme, but the problem is the better twin is, the more decks will have to start putting in answers to twin. And twin crumbles to the good removal in the format now.
So I can't imagine it going above tier 2 at most because its an easy deck to have answers for.
“I don’t know if we want to combo on turn 4. Let’s slow-roll it.”
Opponent draws 1 million cards and you never get another chance
You have to make them have it. I don't know why he didn't even try it. That just gives your opponent infinite counter spells if you don't even make them have it.
Seth historically is very risk averse (or pessimistic) when it comes to playing combo pieces.
@@Ornithopter470I tend to be very cautious as well unless I have redundant pieces or protection to back it up
It's not like of you lose the game you lose your life lmao. You miss 100% of shots you don't take
He should have 100% gone for it. Game 1 on 4, opp tapped out, one of the pieces Seth is worried about in the yard...
The fact that Splinter Twin is now an Against the Odds deck equal to the 40 wrath standard deck it's so funny
Thanks for this content, Seth! It is great to see you in MTGO playing modern. I hope you have fun and come back!
Glad you enjoyed it :)
An MTGGoldfish Modern gameplay video... and it's Against the Odds... and it's 2024??
Nostalgia overload
Surprised to see this isn’t a meme or dream haha. Hoping for the Twin sweep!
I was so eagerly awaiting this video since I heard the news, I'm thrilled it's so early.
And the added icing on the cake, every single game Seth plays the Ring won't make an appearance.
Seth's offhand comment about an alternate Legend rule at ~ 58:10 is actually pretty great, imo.
Twin bros... We're so back...
with FOMO at least if you get bricked by an indestructible creature you can draw into cards that help you deal with the board state that is causing you issues.
25:00 Ive been hearing from people smarter than me that the reason why they specifically unbanned mopal, looting, and zenith is because those are 3 matchups twin historically excels against and they wanted twin to be actually viable (which it almost definitely wouldn't be if the meta wasn't shaken up with these). If twin keeps these decks in check that sounds like a fun metagame to me.
The unban is just to get the most amount of players back to the game... When looting was legal, no one could beat it. And affinity had a fair game against twin.
24:03 My thing about the Opal unban is that I feel like it was almost a necessary evil to make the artifact decks actually competitive again. Sure you did have some one the fringes, but they weren't going to be anything more than fringe without the help of Opal. Plus, it basically revives Lantern control all on its own, and I'm here for modern to have Lantern control back as a deck.
Lantern, Cheerios, other artifact decks, maybe some new brew?
Mommy, why is Santa Claus Black Beard playing with our gifts?
The gifts were ungiven
To be honest, the biggest problem of amulet titan was always the Titan.
Amulet is broken
If amulet didn't give multiple untaps, it'd be fine.
That jeskai twin deck with Orin Chants and 3feris was spicy :O that opponent was cooking hard into the protect your combo aspect. Love your build too, its super nostalgic :'). I miss the days of bolt snap bolt.
I knew this would be Against the Odds this week, and I've been so excited for it all day yesterday. Can't wait to see how it goes.
Guess who's back? Back again? Twin is back. Tell your twins.
I was so hopping for this. You didn't disappoint.
the exact video i was waiting for since the bnr
Hey Seth, in 55:07 you could have just played splinter twin and then if your opponent had an answer cast snapcaster to flashback flare of denial sacrificing snapcaster to free cast it instead of trying to dig for it with thundertrap trainer.
In this case it didn't really matter, but I'm pretty sure it came up in a few other games as well so it's just a line to be aware of (unless I'm missing something and it's not possible for some reason).
Flashback is an alternative cost and you can only pay one alternative cost per spell, so can't cast for free from the Graveyard. Judging for the win has a video on that that lists the situations where it does work, sadly youtube doesn't allow links
@@Tekarusame To clarify further, since snapcaster specifically says "the card gains flashback with cost equal to mana value" the only option is to pay the flashback cost. Other cards which say "you may cast target card from your graveyard this turn" would work, but flashback as an ability only says you can cast the card for X mana. The more generic "you may cast X" is what opens up alternative costs.
@@DirectorBurgundy okay thanks for the clarification 😊
"Then we can Thundertrap Trainer next year". 😂
I love Seth's slip ups. This channel rules.
Haven't watched the video, but I predict that twin is completely unplayable against any tier deck.
Been waiting since the announcement for this video, love to see Twin back!
M2G2 could you have Bolt-Snap-Bolt to deal with the Archon T4?
47:05, me and Seth relate that FOMO (for him the card, for me the actual feeling) both of us are less convinced by it.
control deck with a built in combo, its honestly feels very solid (and fair?)
what i liked about Twin is that even though it felt very good, you definitely had to earn the match victories
there were some very engaging games being played here
I was waiting for the, "Wait, is this deck good? Did we break it??" 😂
I don't know how good the deck is going to be but I'm excited nevertheless
LETS GO MTGO. i was so sad when seth moved from mtgo to mtga for standard and pioneer/explorer. hope to see more mtgo gameplay in the future
When I got into magic twin was the deck to beat in modern it’s crazy how it’s now on an against the odds to me that’s crazy
Maybe I'm just projecting my own feelings on the Faithless Looting banning, but I distinctly remember Seth being elated that it was banned, and had been talking about it needing to go for a while. But maybe that was just because of Hogaak, or I'm living in my own head :)
I think tempo twin is gonna be the truth. Either Grixis with psychic frog and Tamiyo or a delirium Twin list that threatens to win with DRC and Fomo. Jeskai control with Teferi and twin seems doable, but I think it's gonna be weak
I think Twin's best chance is a jeskai control shell. Lots of protection in counter spells, not to mention T3feri just preventing your opponent from interacting with you.
harbinger over blood moon is a surprise. I guess time will tell which is better based on the meta because it will probably take a few weeks to figure out what is legit and what is a meme.
Yeah I agree, blood moon seems better here, you need 2 red mana for splinter twin so playing harbinger is kind of a nonbo I think...
My thinking is that turning everything into Islands cuts off red removal that could interact with the combo. Whether that makes it right, I'm still not sure.
Blood moon also dodges solitude
I would like a Seth video on the history of splinter twin, the discovery, development, dominance, eventual banning, intervening years, and now finally the unban.
Ohh, that's a good idea! I might have to work on that.
In match two i would have gone for the flames of anor instead of exarch when they cast the two target creativity because had all three modes destroying the treasure which prevents a two mana remove and with 5 lands only needed to see an untapped land in 3 draws to combo off. They get one less cruelty too
I'm hype.
With preordain last time and faithless looting back my izzet pyromancer ascension grapeshot deck looks exciting now.
“Let’s see if twin can win games”
Game 1: twin mirror 😭
Calling splinter twin against the odds made me feel old
Old viewer here, back for some good old mtgo seth
Spinter twin? You mean monored balloon man?
It's funny, because normally I do not like combo decks at all, but Twin is different. Maybe because it's control combo so it's not 100% in on the combo. Iono, i just know I love it and am super happy it's legal again in modern!
Instead of FOMO, why not have Corridor Monitor be another option? It can't do the tap down lands of Exarch or Pestermite, but it only costs 2 and can still be an option to put Twin onto. It also has a big butt to block with as it has the same baseline stats as Exarch. The lack of flash and it being an artifact does hurt, but as 1 of or 2 of, it could work for the combo.
32:28 Seth moment. "Unfortunately can't use two modes"😊
Was he supposed to kill his own creature?
Twin is back baby!!
54:14 don't you have snap flare up?
So Snapcaster doesn't let you use the alt cost on Flare, so you still have to pay three mana for it, so not quite (if we spend mana on Twin).
@@MTGGoldfish huh, didn't know that, thanks
I feel like a grixis control shell with like 3 deceiver and 2 twin copies would be good
Nice too see some mordern again!
Nice to not have to feel the anxious anger that the Ring produced in me every game.
It feels sooooo good to have Modern back.
I'd love to see you play hollow ones and affinity and other tier one decks of 2016
Oh don't worry :)
Pathway 3: teferi
i was so surprised when they unbanned splinter twin
25:09 My Clombo
Im a ygo player...is there no deck thats just plain counter ? Like that focuses on removing your resources?
I saw thoughtsies (i think) and some other hand rip...is there no hand rip counter deck? I hear gydecks are big(dredge) so is it just not good?
There's an archetype called "UW (Blue/White) Control" that appears across all of the regularly-played formats that does exactly what you're thinking of. It is about 90% counters and removal, with the remaining 10% usually being Teferi, Hero of Dominaria as the win-condition by getting his ultimate off and decking your opponent by constantly tucking himself back into your deck so you never deck out. Many variants may use lands that create creature tokens alongside Teferi, or opt for other "big threats" to close out the game after denying onboard resources over multiple turns.
This deck only really shows up at major events when there are T1 strategies that threaten to push the format into a T0 environment, as UW Control deck lists are usually customized with maindeck answers to the specific boogeyman deck(s) in a given format. In a healthy format, UW Control struggles from needing to have answers for all 4 major archetypes (Aggro, Midrange, Combo, Control/Tempo) instead of only 1-2 archetypes in an unhealth format, leaving your chance of success up to chance based on whether you have sidedeck cards that can answer your matchups.
A very recent example of an unhealthy modern format was actually right before the previous B&R with a Combo deck that took 6(?) of the Top 8 spots in a major tournament. That is the kind of environment UW Control works best in, as you have a good idea of what decks are likely to show up, meaning you can streamline your main and side decks to answer those threats efficiently.
@Kruschevez ty.
Finally see Seth play some modern! please fix the legality of bridge from below on mtggoldfish, it's wrong
Legit feels fixed the amount of Twin v. Twin and stuff lol.
I know it isn't, but if this stays constant, Modern will be a TON of fun now.
I think everyone is just excited to try the new cards, so everyone is playing Twin and Mox Opal decks at the moment.
Have you ever been Rakdos charmed going for the win with twin?
why seth, why were you so scared of pulling hte trigger?
I think it's actually primeval titans numbers 9-12 since they already have summoner's pact.
Yeah, I'm not sure if they end up cutting some of the Summoning Pacts for GSZ or just play them all.
Twinning!
Splinter Twin lets go baybee!
I think twin is gonna be the new “dredge” in that you have to bring something to hate on it in your list, and the second decks get light on twin hate one of the decks will just spike a tourney and then reset the meta
Which is honestly good for the meta. Lots of borderline T1/T2 lists are a sign of a healthy meta.
I just don’t see how that’s possible, so many free removal spells in the main board, you could tap out and still hold force and solitude to fiss. Twin will have a presence but I don’t think this will ever be oppressive.
Everyone is already maindecking interaction that Twin can't deal with easily
Seth constantly complaining about one of the easiest decks to hate out will never get old. All the things to deal with other decks that were printed recently, all work against Amulet as well.
Now that Tron sucks I need something to complain about ;)
Melt down counters the degenerate "unfair" artifact decks. It doesn't really hurt the more fair affinity lists that power out 4/4's for free.
How did I know this was gonna be the first video after the B&R announcement? Lol
Why didn’t you twin your mage for a counterspell on their turn
Twin having access to Flare, Counterspell, and EI seems miserable.
Was here when it dropped the first time 😂
Love the content, please keep it up! You guys are the best at what you do :)
Yay more MTGO content
It's back!!!! The video, not twin.
So what you're telling me is that Seth put FOMO in his deck because of FOMO, flavor win
Definitely prefer AAAspiringSpkie's Wizard Twin list better than this or the Jeskai builds
That was fast.
faithless looting, fomo, twin in the same deck sounds absurd
Glimpse not getting unbanned and mox opal getting unbanned is crazy too me like how is glimpse to strong
i wonder which "soon to come" set is gonna have the reprint of mox opal in it.. or maybe MH4?
Sell into the hype!
Need some ponders
honestly with probe not in the deck anymore and all free counter magic twin should be more then fine really they could get rid of most of the free counterspells and twin would still be fine with git probe gone it tamed twin down by a wide margin in my opinion
See what's the fukin chance that his first game he just happens to fight another Splinter twin deck? Matching on all of the magic online games is just horrible apparently.
Maybe play lotus field?
Izzet deck with no Murktide? C'mon seth.
Sooo…does this mean we can get a few weeks of videos without whining about “the good ole days” of Modern? plz
Bolt snap bolt kills an archon you know... Just saying
Seth put FOMO in his deck because he has FOMO?
Seth advertises Splinter Twin, then refuses to do the thing that was advertised. Nobody cares if it works or not. We wanna see you try. It’s called against the odds for a reason 😂
Yes, modern jank!
Dude you should have casted it earlier. Lol
I'm anti any infinite loop deck
The children are starving
The thing is that Mox Opal & Faithless Looting never deserved to be banned in the first place, so they definitely don't deserve to be rebanned whatsoever.
Playing 1 ei is so weird make zero sense should be 3
Brb, rejecting modernity and embracing tradition
Let's goooooooo
Are they unbanning cards in Modern to test the waters on unbanning cards in Commander?
More likely they're unbanning cards in modern to test the waters for reprint equity. A lot of cards on the Ban list died for other cards sins.
Dumb question: Does meltdown hit an etched champion with metalcraft up? The wording on the card is awkward.
Protection doesn't stop meltdown because it doesn't target or damage
SPOILER ALERT: In the article, Seth states that he went 4-1. I am genuinely shook.
DEEZ NUTS?!?