Smaller Male Duraspark Distributor Cap DOESN'T Automatically Result in Crossfire Issues it's a MYTH
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 มี.ค. 2024
- After posting my earlier video on where to get an OEM smaller male cap for the duraspark distributor a few people have told me "Ford did that because of crossfire, if you use that cap you WILL have crossfire" and frankly that is a myth. In this video I talk about why Ford did it and why switching is not going to automatically be the problem some think it is.
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Just ordered my cap yesterday after watching your earlier video. I’m one of the guys who never knew about it. I had been hoping something existed like this. I’m installing a 6-71 blower on my 351w and the large cap is clearly out the window on that application. I’ve been using the duraspark distributor for years along with an MSD 6AL and Blaster II coil and it’s performed flawlessly. I’m running expensive Motorsport plug wires and like you had mentioned, I didn’t want to have to replace them just because of the cap. I also didn’t want to have to purchase a new, expensive aftermarket distributor with a small cap when what I already have works so well. Can’t thank you enough for sharing this secret. Oddly enough, shortly after your video came out, Amazon shows out of stock on that part number. Maybe there’s been a run on them since the video came out?! I was fortunate to find a local parts store that had one in their warehouse.
Glad I could help!!! Amazon ran out within the first two weeks and I have no doubt it was as a direct result if my video.
Cap arrived today and curiosity got the better of me so I went straight to the garage and swapped it out. Just had to see it to believe it I guess lol! Fits just like you said. Wire boots are pretty tight clearance, but it does work out! Thanks again for sharing this secret! Your little channel has been a wealth of great information for me. First knew of you from years ago on a forum where I found out about your roller spring perches, then I recall some useful manual trans swap info for a Galaxie, which I’m currently in the process of doing on my son’s 63 1/2. And now this helpful information. Thank you and keep it coming sir!
glad I could help, don't hesitate to reach out if I can be of any further assistance.
I've been running the smaller cap on my 77 F150 since I found your other video. I have not had any problems. Crossfire or otherwise. Very happy I could get away from the 2 piece. big cap.
Good to hear it, thanks for the update
Thank you for sharing this information. I had a nasty crossfire issue with the big diameter cap in my MSD billet distributor and analog 6AL module, which was hacked and repaired. I had to replace the module with the 6AL digital version and use an adjustable rotor to set up the firing phase a little more accurately.
Yes, going with the smaller diameter cap does not cause crossfire issues. As you clearly mentioned, other variables and causes exist for that issue. BTSTDT.
Thanks for the comment
Thanks for upgrading my knowledge, LOL!
Happy to help!
Great video!
The “original” small caps had more of a tracing problem than a cross fire issue. They had very short separators wings between the inside terminals and no breather vent. On a rainy damp day or the morning after with some moisture in the cap they would miss fire.
Moisture can for sure be a factor!!
Just and FYI: I found out the hard way that silicone plug boots can trap air when slid on. If they are close to a hot header, the heat can expand the air and pop the boot off. Loose one cylinder and the race, happened twice because I thought I did something wrong the first time. I used a thin cotter pin to release the air when installing the plug wire at the plug. I know you're not racing, but if the wire does come off, the spark will look elsewhere for a path.
good info thanks!!
Interesting video. My crossfire starting problem where changing the cap (the Big One) for another dry cap, was due to moisture rain/wind and temperature change in Summer-Fall and Winter-Spring conditions. Always after sitting for the night. The big (originally Blue) Cap THAT DID NOT HAVE A CONDENSATION BREATHER on top. Nor did Ford use the weather wrap on their distributor at that time to protect Cap from moisture.
Moisture is a huge factor in crossfire and ignition problems. Thanks for sharing
Good job. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
My pleasure
This video was well said and very correct on all explained, you hit the nail on the head when you brought the MSD distributor in play small cap with lots more sparky and no problems, I read a lot of bs on the internet and know better to believe whats said, Been turn wrenches for all most 50 years now I'm building a 1999 mazda miata with my 18 year old Daughter with ford 302 just dropped duraspark in it yesterday going with small cap MSD 6al box 8.8 shortened rear end 3 point ladder bar system t45 bolted to engine going to be a fun little car when done Anyway that's for the truth on the web so many fasle claims out there. spark jumping is caused by faulty parts and if your wires are bad or anything esle then spark jumps across period.
That does sound like a fun little project. I imagine the 302 will do for the Miata what a big block does for a bigger car.
@@dazecars there's a lot of parts that you can buy for it to make it easy but I like to prefab myself and figure things out that make it more fun, like cutting and rewelding axle tubes are done now to figure out how to shorten the axles to fit propertly
Sounds like my kind of project, I modify everything just because I can
@@dazecars Can't wait to smell the tire rubber again been way to long, I may turbo or supercharge it just waiting to see how it drives first still along way to go
👍
Could you do a video on the original duraspark I ignition boxes made to meet California emissions (50 state). Allegedly, it makes way more spark than the duraspark II ignitions, but proved to be too costly for Ford. Seems like their best box with the small cap trick would make a great low buck solution. v/r wh
interesting, I have not heard that. Sounds like something worth checking out
I’m interested in swapping the cap.
What is the part number and is it literally a removal of the old two piece cap and rotor ?
Here you go Swapping Out to a SMALLER MALE Duraspark Distributor Cap, Best Kept Secret in the Ford Community
th-cam.com/video/mQ8zjOdz1rE/w-d-xo.html
I guess I’m that odd guy that likes the looks of the bigger cap if you have room for it , like intake and air cleaner issues. I just think it looks a little more ‘racy’ , but I don’t care for the GM style HEI distributors and have seen lots of bad reviews for them. I like the fact that the Duraspark are stock Ford and would make must easier to replace or repair 100’s of miles from home on a weekend. (Assuming you actually drive your hot rod) . I first use one with a MSD box on a 351w I built back in early 90’s. It was in a 57 Fairlane I restored. I had built the engine following a build in HotRod magazine from the late 80’s. The magazine build turn out about 350 horse, which seem ideal to me. At the time I didn’t realize how easy it was to get electronic ignition, other than hi-performance racing parts. I know you could get kits that replaced your points but there again where do you find parts on a Saturday afternoon. So I originally went with a new points distributor, the car ran fine but never had the power I had expected. The automatic and 3:12 9” would spin the 27” tall BFG’s but not like I had hoped. Fast forward a couple years when I installed a mid 70’s stock Ford electronic distributor and a MSD box, it was literally like bolting on another 100 horsepower. That thing would fry the tires off. On the 57 I used a small female cap, but on my present build (302) I’m using the larger with black base and red top and red wires on a black and chrome engine. I wrote down the parts #’s from your previous video and put them with my ignition parts in my shop and my wallet. You never know, a farm store in East resume Speed Washington or Oregon may have a cap for a I-H Duraspark distributor on a Saturday afternoon.
I don't like the slop in the bigger cap and a lot of them are aluminum not brass so IMHO the smaller cap is a performance upgrade. I know what you mean about good ignition adding power. When I first built my Mustang I put a read switch on the secondary linkage of my 4 barrel carb to trigger an LED. That way I knew when I was wasting gas for fun. After installing the MSD box (with points) I could get much the same performance without having to open the secondaries.
I'm running a small cap on my 347 and haven't had any crossfire issues turning it 6500+ in some cases , I was worried about it at first but I have decent wires and they haven't given me any trouble "yet" 😂
EXACTLY!!! you would be amazed the number of comments on my first video going on an on about the crossfire problems the smaller cap was going to cause. That is why I made the second video. Thanks for sharing your real world experience!!
@@dazecars yeah I can only imagine the amount of comments that came in disputing what u said and the majority has probably never owned a ford much less ran a small cap . Probably something that they saw someone say so it turned into a law
The foundation for the myth is solid. Ford said thats why they did it so people think it applies to all duraspark everywhere, but people don't seam to understand the concept of it being a system and changes to other parts of that system effect its over all function.
SMOG! Lean a/f mixture and a bigger spark plug gap...a wider arc gives a longer possible contact patch between cap and rotor. Love my Duraspark, red tab.
exactly!! other factors that didn't apply to the other makes using the duraspark distributor.
That made me wounder as well after pickling up a ford van with the EFI and TFI Ignition system that didn't run.
And driving an older van with the Carb and Dure Spark System.
I didn't unstand why the New small cap did not cross fire after reading up on the EFI and TFI system in order to find the trouble.
If i remember right the TFI coil is suppost to have the same high output and it didn't make sense why the older coil would cause trouble.
Love you videos
On another note if you have an older ford and its not ruining try checking the fuel pump and main ECU or computer Relays.
The van had a new coil and Distributor in it and the tech was still trying to find the trouble.
Me new to the EFI and TFI system was reading 3 or 4 books on the system's in order to find the trouble and almost pick up a new computer or ECM.
But i pulled both the fuel pump and ECM relays and crack the cover and found them to be full of rust
I jump pins and the engine came to life with the turn of the key
If you have any old fords or possible other autos. Check the relay's as they can click and still be bad.
Please keep up the good work for people like you help make the world a better place
Thanks
Glad you like my vides!! Thanks for the information on trouble shooting
I'd venture a guess that they went to the larger cap for the same reason GM did with the HEI. Emissions dictated they needed to have an engine with multiple ignition settings, retard and advance, and needed more "swing". Before they could do it with computers.
emissions is for sure part of the equation.
Shortcomings of the big cap like? It bothers people?
It’s sloppy, it interferes with tons of aftermarket parts, it’s ugly and not necessary if you eliminate the parts where Ford went cheap.
I didn't know about this cap and I mess around with old Ford's all the time. This should also be an upgrade cap for use with points ignition, shouldn't it? those female wire caps kind of suck.
yes it will totally fit on a point distributor. I have heard a few people say that "new" off brand replacement distributors (duraspark) are a tighter fit because the casing is .03" bigger and I do not know if the same is true of the points type. All older ones and OEM ones seam to work without issue, just thought I should mention it.
@@dazecars Ive got a WAI global Ford FE replacement distributor and the stock female caps fit fine. Also bought two SKP points distributors and sent them back but the caps fit the same as well. I'll have to buy one of these caps and try it someday.
This cap has a slightly smaller diameter, about .03" it fits on most distributor but on a few it was too tight. easy enough to remove that much material. It's just an issue of the the new castings being slightly over spec.
Well there are great gobs of gm v8s that run a cap that looks just like the smaller male terminal cap without crossfire issues.
exactly but you would be amazed at the number of people that have told me that smaller cap WILL cause crossfire
The issue ford talk about ? It goes back to an issue car maker created for themselve . How ? See nichola tesla might have been very good . But he was the apple of his day . Patent galore . Yes nichola tesla had a patent on aka ignition coil/condensator . Yes those cylindrical unit are meant to do both if airgapped like nicholas tesla mention inhis patent . Manufacturer thinking they were outsmarting nichola tesla used a metal strap around ignition coil and voila ? Nope . See there was a method to nichola tesla idea Of coil/condensator doing both . Very specific condition were required wich mean paying patent fees . To avoid the patent they went to a lot of trouble . Looking back ? It would have been cheaper to pay nichola tesla royalty . But they did not know . So a condensator had to be added to the distributor area . That's where everything went sideways . Car has had electrical false signal since then . Check ford in wrc . The coil goes in the head a protection tube is required . Ideal iit should be made of non magnetic non electric material wich is not the case . On older car . Yes voltage was arcing . If ignition coil had been installed like nickola tesla patent mentionned there would not have been arcing because condensator job would be done also by the ignition coil . Since it's how it's intended to be done . From ford model t till end of single ignition coil they made the same mistake . To avoid patent of nichola tesla after patent ended to prevent regular joe from noticing ..want a non metal ignition coil holder ? Certain years of suzuki samurai . What you think suzuki samurai likecto rev because they're japanese engine ? Test it on an old lada niva lol . Very cheap fix . Yes the bigger cap is better . But the problem was not the original distributor cap . Condensator was just too close compared to properly non metal ignition coil support . Once you learn it it's easy
interesting information
👍👍😎👍👍
thanks
The larger cap bleeds ozone out of the cap and reduces spark scatter. It is better if it can be used.
Venting is always a good idea
You will only have crossfire issues with the small cap if you have the HEI Duraspark System. Otherwise there are no issues.. The larger cap was designed for the HEI Duraspark. The HEI module was supposed to be the default system but poor reliability nixed that idea and its's use was limited. The regular Duraspark system is not an HEI system..
Thanks for the comment and the info about the higher output Ford system. I don't even think you will have crossfire withe the HEI and the smaller cap as long as you run high quality components. An MSD or Pertronix unit runs way hotter than HEI and is NOT prone to crossfire with a same sized cap
@@dazecars You CAN'T run the HEI Duraspark system and the small cap as it WILL cross fire. Quality components or not. The whole reason for the large cap was for the HEI Duraspark system. That system is so hot you can hear it crackling in the dist cap as it jumps the gaps. It makes the MSI and the GM HEI system look positively weak. And unlike the Duraspark II system the HEI system has no ballast resistor and runs a full 12V to the coil
I stand corrected, thanks for the information.
I run a 351c with the small cap to 7000 rpm with no problem.
Good info. Thanks for sharing
The MSD products are just so superior that I wouldn't screw around with anything else.
They do make good products my only complaint is the Holley line of offerings has gotten very expensive.
Electricity does NOT take the path of least resistance. It takes all paths of proportional resistance. Otherwise parallel circuits would not work. -Doozer
yes that is technically true but at that point and for this application you are bringing up facts that don't really effect the function of the system. "all paths of proportional resistance" yes "Electricity follows every path available to it, and follows each in inverse proportion to its resistance." So the most electricity follows the path of least resistance, the second most follows the path of second least resistance, and on and on "parallel circuits". When dealing with jumping a gap there is no conductive "path" so to speak. I stand by what I said because I was speaking in generalizations to people with a limited knowledge of electronics not to engineering students in a physics class
@@dazecars I agree in your example, you are right on. But you were not speaking in generalizations. Something that generally applies means it applied all the time. You were speaking of a special case, or a specialization. My statement was a generalization, about current flowing all paths, proportional to resistance ( or conductance really). The statement that current flows the path of least resistance has been repeated for generations, and has taught people something that is wrong and confusing. People of limited knowledge got that way by taking to heart these rules of thumb that get repeated, but the real answer is never sought to be discovered. Assuming your audience has limited knowledge is a rather impolite activity to embark on, be it true or not. I find it most accommodating to mention the details of a subject, but only explain the details deeper, if it aids in getting the point across. I watch your channel and enjoy the content. Please don't take my words in the negative. Just trying to convey my views of presenting material. --Doozer
I get it. I like facts and information and I don't like misinformation and I completely understand wanting to educate and eliminate generally excepted misnomers. When it comes to the info I present It is fine balance between making my information relatable and understandable to the masses and truly educating people. Often times I think I talk too much or over explain 😂 Glad you like my channel and I do appreciate the comments.
Your more likely with the small cap.
I run the big cap with the copper heavy duty cap.
More likely, yes likely enough to mater, not at all
thank you for your opinion
The small cap version looks so much better, it's like apples an ugly fruit.
no kidding!!