Whoa Ken, thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions and go so in depth with your explanations. Class act. Keep them coming. A+ (as always).
So awesome of you to share here kevin vekni, and those were great questions my friend ;-) We can all benefit exponentially when we start sharing as a community, and these comments bring so much more to the table...it's AWESOME. Thanks for engaging here my friend, cheers!!! -hw
man.. Life lesson accepted!! Ken HiWatt Marshall, you continue to show why the music I have listened to over the years is that much more precious. Artists like yourself, cEvin Key, Nivek Ogre and so many more of my personal influences are not only artists to be inspired by, but humans to be inspired by. Ken Marshall.. Level.. SONIC SAMURAI !!
Here's the post that brought me here today: QUOTE: TIL Ken Marshall (mixing/mastering/arrangements for Skinny Puppy among other things), has a ridiculously well produced but barely watched TH-cam channel. His demeanor is a bit uhh hyper, but, he's definitely a wealth of knowledge on production, especially tidbits about industrial/electronic production other places might not cover ENDQUOTE I can't agree more. ridiculously well produced, and criminally underwatched. Thank you for sharing a valuable perspective, which I find applicable to many areas in my life apart from music!
Years ago, I started contributing articles for trade publications. My first ever article, when the editor got done with it, had 2(!!!) of my original sentences in it. She destroyed it! It was so humbling. By my 3rd article, I had zero, nada, edits from the same editor. Like you said, you NEED to get harsh feedback to thicken your skin and learn.
Great advice. Not only production wise but the businesses/life side as well. What a super intelligent, talented, humble guy you are. I cannot tell you how much I love these videos. I myself have been doing music production since 99. Even took a few semesters in audio engineering. Ive been listening to SP since 94, when I was 11. I've always been interested in production and remember hearing a mix of yours on dystemper that blew me away. I've been a fan ever since. Thank you for making the videos and giving some insight and knowledge into production and skinny puppy production at That! Just Wow! You are an inspiration man. Thanks!...
I have a similar story regarding the hated first mix. I wrote music for a TV spot and I made several variations, maybe seven or eight, total. I put them all in order and played them for the ad agency at our meeting. They went through them and were so-so in their reactions. However, they absolutely loved the last one. Well, the last one was just a duplicate of the first one. I threw it on there thinking I know the first one is the best, but they want to hunt and peck. So when they "discovered" the "last" one, they wanted to use it.
I worked on a split EP with a fellow musician who also did guitars for us on a tour. We butt heads a lot both on tour and in the studio. We're still good friends, but the emotions got kinda high, and we both decided it would probably be best not work together in the same project again; so yeah I'm feeling this video.
I don't understand everything that goes in it when in comes to music, but I can kinda compare it to writing. I do a lot of that, I don't have anything published yet, but over the years I've built a social circle of people who like to write a lot and we'll all send each other stuff to ask for input, and we make modifications and things like that on other people's writing. I found that sometimes, people will totally, totally reject any modification i made. I often prefer to go back and forth, if something causes problems I'll ask them what they wanted to convey and try to find a better way to word things with them. But sometimes, they will just take it personally themselves, like you said they feel very passionate about their art of course, and again, like you said, when someone asks me to review their writing, I do so thinking I'll do my best to make it better, clearer, etc. My feedback is aimed at helping them improve their writing. Or let's maybe there some incoherence they missed or something. Well I'm there to point it out. I get why sometimes their reaction can be quite emotional, because I once was like that too. But I found other's feedback can help so much, even if in the end you don't change everything they told you to. It's so important to have people seeing your art from an outside perspective be able to give that feedback. Readers are not in your head, they won't always be able to tell what you were thinking. While it's probably different with music, that's what came to mind.
I think you also end up messing with peoples egos, which is a dangerous place, always. As usual, awesome segment as you're very positive in your approach. Always. Keep up the great work, Ken!
It's good of you to be so understanding, and I'm sure it helps you get by in your line of work. Nevertheless, those people who were verbally abusing you should not have that kind of behavior excused so easily. I'm not sure what you should do about it ideally, but if you validate abusive behavior and allow yourself to be treated badly, you train people to continue doing it. Artists can have volatile emotions and sensitive egos, but that doesn't mean it's okay for them to treat you like you're less than human.
That's really great advice man! As a Producer/Mixer/Engineer for a living myself I totally relate. We've all had to check our egos at the door with clients at some point.
Your honesty is so important. I really appreciate how you laid out how you felt. It's not weird to feel that, but important. This lesson applies to a lot of things in life. Another great upload sir!
So good. Just what I needed to hear right now... I SO can relate to this. Right now I have couple of mixes out for aproval, kind of nervewrecking, and I always struggle with this part. It's rough...😅 Helps hearing your view! Thanks for a great channel! Cheers, Viktor
Hi Ken, that was a very wise advice . Thanks for sharing your life experience. Its hard to deal with emotions, being not reactive is not an easy thing, but its the key as you say. I have read a lot about this, and i can tell you that you nailed it more much better than any coach i´ve heard before. Every time i´ll have to fight with my emotions i´ll remember your words, and not a as producer (cos im not), just as a regular person.
Thanks for a great video, again, Ken! I would love to hear your thoughts about the economics in the industry then and now. Getting paid, earning money and how things have transformed to where they are today. /Dan
Great episode. Yes, we as humans are predictably unpredictable when it comes to emotions and this is a timely reminder for all of us, or at least me :).
Greta topic. I played hockey at a high level at level when I was young, started going to Junior A training camps when I was 12, which is really young, most start at 15. Back in the early 80’s, there wasn’t an environment of encouragement, it was one of 100% intimidation. I saw kids quit trying to play at that level because they couldn’t cope, you literally had to fight, to keep your position. The mental and physical intimidation was unreal. I found the same thing a bit later on when I started playing in punk and metal bands, I’d already developed a really thick skin and could handle the brutality that lay ahead (haha). I wonder if the anti bullying narrative of today truly helps kids, or hinders them buy sheltering them too much. Anyway great topic and great content as always. I bought my first Hiwatt DR-103 when I was 19, one of my favourite amps, for bass as much as guitar. Ken (or anyone’s), how did you get your “HiWatt” moniker?
Once again, excellent inspiring advice! Really dig this channel! It’s also inspiring to see your (my) idols sharing some of their knowledge and some of their experiences and learning from them! Yeah, inspiring!
Constructive criticism is always great. No need for nasty reactions, respect goes a long way. Would love to send our noise your way someday for mixing etc. Your remixing, engineering & mastering is the best in the biz. What you did with The Dragon Experience is legendary.
Love this format. Please do more of these. It would be great to hear you break down what an engineer, mixer, producer, etc... do. What are the different roles that are involved in creating a studio produced track? Many of us are creating these days on our own and at home, and we are probably wearing all these different hats... for better or for worse.
@@ericahanes2009 Eric, this is brilliant stuff my friend, THANK YOU for sharing!!! So random I just found your post from a year ago (oh man), these are great questions and suggestions Eric, totally gonna follow up with a like session, maybe a couple! It’s so inspiring to know you took the time to sit in on a session, thanks for your support and engagement, it means everything ;-) Apologies for the 12 month delay 😳💥🙏 hw
Sebastian R. Komor you made me laugh out loud!!! Seriously, you know it ;-) Wow, that's a tough business but it can be very rewarding too! And your mixes have to be KILLER right out of the gate...much respect for what you're up to Sebastian, I bet you DO have the skin haha!!! Cheers to you my friend, be safe! -hw
Thanks Ken for your input on this subject. :) I've always done the organic thing and let the artist explain what they hear and try to relate to what they expect in a type of mentoring fashion. This helps educate the artist on what can be achieved and how it is created so they can relate their emotions to the procedures of the session(s). This has worked out for me when producing, etc. Hope this makes sense.
Love the channel man. I was wondering if you could do a segment on layering vocals and getting the cleanest sound. Or even some ways to approach getting an experimental vocal tone that works. How to decide when enough is enough or being happy with a finished product.
Great insight as always. It’s hard, too, when you’re a music maker creating the song (often fussing over sounds during tracking and early mix) and sending it out remotely for the production and polish. The minute I hit send and those sounds leave your outbox, I have to check as much of that ego at the door as I possibly can. Having an editor outside the feelings bubble is key!
This is why I can’t do this work professionally. One I don’t have any interest in working on music I don’t like and there’s no way I’d ever skip to the stage of just working with bands I like, very few people even at the highest levels are locked in to that. I also take everything personally. I recorded a friend’s band and even the most minor hesitations I took super personally. I’m back to working on my own stuff and much happier. Thankfully my day job is pretty fulfilling.
Do you give people disclaimers before you start? To let them know your more involved, “heavy handed” approach? Or do they just know by now with your experience?
Loving these vids, man. I'm a long time Puppy fan and make music of my own. I was wondering what is the most you will change a song in mixing and editing? Which song that you've produced by Puppy changed the most from the original song you received to the final product? I wonder because I've never worked with a producer and was wondering how much my songs may change with a producer.
I don't really see why anyone today, in the world of non destructive editing, would react so emotionally over a mix they don't like. It's not like you changed anything forever. It's just your input. Being a creative producer is kind of like being a temporary extra member of the band, and if that chemistry doesn't work well, hey, maybe it's not the best match. But you don't know before you tried. Doing any type of creative work your job is not to please the audience, or in these cases the band employing you, it is to give them what they didn't know they wanted. If they do not want any creative decisions made for them it is time to learn production themselves.
Thank you for sharing here Tung Tobak, I appreciate it VERY much! Your points are well said my friend, and that chemistry you mention is so important. More often than not, before I have a band sign on to an album project, we decide to try out the chemistry so to speak, by just starting with one song ;-) Most artists will instinctively send you one of the stronger songs on the album, so you will often have a great opportunity to produce a killer track. Just believe in yourself, and make decisions based around that lead vocal...when you build your mix around your lead vocal, it will almost always result in a better presentation of that artists song! This is my experience ;-) I love your comment "...to give them what they didn't know they wanted." Brilliant ;-) You sharing here makes this whole experience so much richer, thanks again Tung Tobak! Cheers, -hw
Absolutely mic indir, thank you for sharing my friend ;-) Here's my rule haha...be sincerely excited about your production, take liberties to make it a better song, and be prepared to not take it personally if there's a less than positive initial response. The experience of that artist coming back later and praising you for the same mix doesn't have to happen more than a couple of times before you start to build confidence in the choices you're making...and you'll grow a thicker skin in the process. It's a wonderful realization, and it helps launch your productions forward in my experience! I appreciate you engaging here mic, cheers to you! -hw
Just a note on video production: throughout most of the video the light from your computer screen is reflecting on your glasses directly into the camera. It's a bit distracting with the reflection of the screen right over your eyes, maybe watch out for this video angle for future videos.
This is straight up a therapy session! Thanks HW! Also, who in their right mind leaves Ken, of all people, a nastygram on voicemail?!?! By far the best reaction to an over reaction is a calm, understanding demeanor [even if you are in the red]. Trips people up all the time, and the other party will usually gather that they are looking a little bonkers.
This is so perfect. And totally applicable to A LOT of aspects of life and other jobs as well.
Whoa Ken, thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions and go so in depth with your explanations. Class act. Keep them coming. A+ (as always).
So awesome of you to share here kevin vekni, and those were great questions my friend ;-) We can all benefit exponentially when we start sharing as a community, and these comments bring so much more to the table...it's AWESOME. Thanks for engaging here my friend, cheers!!! -hw
man.. Life lesson accepted!! Ken HiWatt Marshall, you continue to show why the music I have listened to over the years is that much more precious. Artists like yourself, cEvin Key, Nivek Ogre and so many more of my personal influences are not only artists to be inspired by, but humans to be inspired by. Ken Marshall.. Level.. SONIC SAMURAI !!
Superb. Superb advice for just about everyone in every area of their lives.
fabulous advice for in and out of the big chair 👏🏼
Here's the post that brought me here today:
QUOTE: TIL Ken Marshall (mixing/mastering/arrangements for Skinny Puppy among other things), has a ridiculously well produced but barely watched TH-cam channel. His demeanor is a bit uhh hyper, but, he's definitely a wealth of knowledge on production, especially tidbits about industrial/electronic production other places might not cover
ENDQUOTE
I can't agree more. ridiculously well produced, and criminally underwatched.
Thank you for sharing a valuable perspective, which I find applicable to many areas in my life apart from music!
Years ago, I started contributing articles for trade publications. My first ever article, when the editor got done with it, had 2(!!!) of my original sentences in it. She destroyed it! It was so humbling. By my 3rd article, I had zero, nada, edits from the same editor. Like you said, you NEED to get harsh feedback to thicken your skin and learn.
mess with a mans mix .....you mess with his emotions.....seriously GOLDEN !!!!!
When your Buddhist practice and music production interests collide magically on TH-cam one day!
Great advice. Not only production wise but the businesses/life side as well. What a super intelligent, talented, humble guy you are. I cannot tell you how much I love these videos. I myself have been doing music production since 99. Even took a few semesters in audio engineering. Ive been listening to SP since 94, when I was 11. I've always been interested in production and remember hearing a mix of yours on dystemper that blew me away. I've been a fan ever since. Thank you for making the videos and giving some insight and knowledge into production and skinny puppy production at That! Just Wow! You are an inspiration man. Thanks!...
It's okay to not like what someone is doing, but everyone should still be treated with respect -- I hate assholes.
This is one of the most important videos I've ever seen from a music production channel. Thanks so much for sharing, Ken!
You are so genuine. Wow!
I have a similar story regarding the hated first mix. I wrote music for a TV spot and I made several variations, maybe seven or eight, total. I put them all in order and played them for the ad agency at our meeting. They went through them and were so-so in their reactions. However, they absolutely loved the last one. Well, the last one was just a duplicate of the first one. I threw it on there thinking I know the first one is the best, but they want to hunt and peck. So when they "discovered" the "last" one, they wanted to use it.
Wow. This was one of the most personal session for me so far. It raised my hairs partly. Thank you for sharing.
I worked on a split EP with a fellow musician who also did guitars for us on a tour. We butt heads a lot both on tour and in the studio. We're still good friends, but the emotions got kinda high, and we both decided it would probably be best not work together in the same project again; so yeah I'm feeling this video.
I don't understand everything that goes in it when in comes to music, but I can kinda compare it to writing. I do a lot of that, I don't have anything published yet, but over the years I've built a social circle of people who like to write a lot and we'll all send each other stuff to ask for input, and we make modifications and things like that on other people's writing.
I found that sometimes, people will totally, totally reject any modification i made. I often prefer to go back and forth, if something causes problems I'll ask them what they wanted to convey and try to find a better way to word things with them. But sometimes, they will just take it personally themselves, like you said they feel very passionate about their art of course, and again, like you said, when someone asks me to review their writing, I do so thinking I'll do my best to make it better, clearer, etc. My feedback is aimed at helping them improve their writing. Or let's maybe there some incoherence they missed or something. Well I'm there to point it out.
I get why sometimes their reaction can be quite emotional, because I once was like that too. But I found other's feedback can help so much, even if in the end you don't change everything they told you to. It's so important to have people seeing your art from an outside perspective be able to give that feedback. Readers are not in your head, they won't always be able to tell what you were thinking.
While it's probably different with music, that's what came to mind.
love the involvement
I feel like this was really important to hear.
yeah that really is a GREAT question and happy you followed it up!
Thank you for your inspiring words. This is so true in all aspects of life. I’m 46 and still learning not to take things personally.
I think you also end up messing with peoples egos, which is a dangerous place, always. As usual, awesome segment as you're very positive in your approach. Always. Keep up the great work, Ken!
It's good of you to be so understanding, and I'm sure it helps you get by in your line of work. Nevertheless, those people who were verbally abusing you should not have that kind of behavior excused so easily. I'm not sure what you should do about it ideally, but if you validate abusive behavior and allow yourself to be treated badly, you train people to continue doing it. Artists can have volatile emotions and sensitive egos, but that doesn't mean it's okay for them to treat you like you're less than human.
great video I love it, best one yet.
That was an awesome episode!
You should talk about time management as well sometime
That's really great advice man! As a Producer/Mixer/Engineer for a living myself I totally relate. We've all had to check our egos at the door with clients at some point.
Your honesty is so important. I really appreciate how you laid out how you felt. It's not weird to feel that, but important. This lesson applies to a lot of things in life. Another great upload sir!
This is great insight Ken! As a producer as well as an artist I can fully endorse this thought process!
So good. Just what I needed to hear right now... I SO can relate to this. Right now I have couple of mixes out for aproval, kind of nervewrecking, and I always struggle with this part. It's rough...😅 Helps hearing your view! Thanks for a great channel! Cheers, Viktor
So much of what you have done over the years means so much to me, Marshall. Thank you for taking the time to make these amazing videos!
Ok, after watching this one, I've subscribed.
Thank you, dude. This is wonderful advice! Good day to you! =)
Hi Ken, that was a very wise advice . Thanks for sharing your life experience. Its hard to deal with emotions, being not reactive is not an easy thing, but its the key as you say. I have read a lot about this, and i can tell you that you nailed it more much better than any coach i´ve heard before. Every time i´ll have to fight with my emotions i´ll remember your words, and not a as producer (cos im not), just as a regular person.
Thanks for a great video, again, Ken! I would love to hear your thoughts about the economics in the industry then and now. Getting paid, earning money and how things have transformed to where they are today. /Dan
hyperemotionality and sensitivity are rampid nowadays. This is a good message to a generation of butthurtedness.
Great episode. Yes, we as humans are predictably unpredictable when it comes to emotions and this is a timely reminder for all of us, or at least me :).
Greta topic. I played hockey at a high level at level when I was young, started going to Junior A training camps when I was 12, which is really young, most start at 15. Back in the early 80’s, there wasn’t an environment of encouragement, it was one of 100% intimidation. I saw kids quit trying to play at that level because they couldn’t cope, you literally had to fight, to keep your position. The mental and physical intimidation was unreal. I found the same thing a bit later on when I started playing in punk and metal bands, I’d already developed a really thick skin and could handle the brutality that lay ahead (haha). I wonder if the anti bullying narrative of today truly helps kids, or hinders them buy sheltering them too much. Anyway great topic and great content as always.
I bought my first Hiwatt DR-103 when I was 19, one of my favourite amps, for bass as much as guitar. Ken (or anyone’s), how did you get your “HiWatt” moniker?
Great video. Looking forward to the next one.
Another gem of a video man, you're are always inspiring!!! I'd love for you to produce my stuff!! :)
Once again, excellent inspiring advice! Really dig this channel! It’s also inspiring to see your (my) idols sharing some of their knowledge and some of their experiences and learning from them! Yeah, inspiring!
Constructive criticism is always great. No need for nasty reactions, respect goes a long way. Would love to send our noise your way someday for mixing etc. Your remixing, engineering & mastering is the best in the biz. What you did with The Dragon Experience is legendary.
Fantastic advice, Ken!
Thanks for sharing those stories Ken. I learned early on that thick skin is almost essential in this business.
Love this format. Please do more of these. It would be great to hear you break down what an engineer, mixer, producer, etc... do. What are the different roles that are involved in creating a studio produced track? Many of us are creating these days on our own and at home, and we are probably wearing all these different hats... for better or for worse.
Part 2--- And how has that changed for you over the years... from when the whole band had to be in the studio to now when you get everything remotely?
@@ericahanes2009 Eric, this is brilliant stuff my friend, THANK YOU for sharing!!! So random I just found your post from a year ago (oh man), these are great questions and suggestions Eric, totally gonna follow up with a like session, maybe a couple! It’s so inspiring to know you took the time to sit in on a session, thanks for your support and engagement, it means everything ;-) Apologies for the 12 month delay 😳💥🙏
hw
They say when you make a mistake you just learned how not to do it, so you can go on learning how to do it right!
So true. Detach is key. Once I started creating Production Music for TV etc, it quickly became a crash course in growing skin hehe.
Sebastian R. Komor you made me laugh out loud!!! Seriously, you know it ;-) Wow, that's a tough business but it can be very rewarding too! And your mixes have to be KILLER right out of the gate...much respect for what you're up to Sebastian, I bet you DO have the skin haha!!! Cheers to you my friend, be safe! -hw
Thanks Ken for your input on this subject. :) I've always done the organic thing and let the artist explain what they hear and try to relate to what they expect in a type of mentoring fashion. This helps educate the artist on what can be achieved and how it is created so they can relate their emotions to the procedures of the session(s). This has worked out for me when producing, etc. Hope this makes sense.
I'd love to hear that remix, Ken. I bet it was killer! :)
a good lesson on being professional
Reminds me of Prince and how he cut the bass completely out of 'When Doves Cry'. 😉
Love the channel man. I was wondering if you could do a segment on layering vocals and getting the cleanest sound. Or even some ways to approach getting an experimental vocal tone that works. How to decide when enough is enough or being happy with a finished product.
Great insight as always. It’s hard, too, when you’re a music maker creating the song (often fussing over sounds during tracking and early mix) and sending it out remotely for the production and polish. The minute I hit send and those sounds leave your outbox, I have to check as much of that ego at the door as I possibly can. Having an editor outside the feelings bubble is key!
Go into it like Martin Hannet
Like Big Perm tried to told you: "Playin' with my mix is like playing with my emotions."
Great advise as always Ken!
Thank you ericscorpse, I appreciate that my friend ;-) Cheers to you, -hw
This is why I can’t do this work professionally. One I don’t have any interest in working on music I don’t like and there’s no way I’d ever skip to the stage of just working with bands I like, very few people even at the highest levels are locked in to that. I also take everything personally. I recorded a friend’s band and even the most minor hesitations I took super personally. I’m back to working on my own stuff and much happier. Thankfully my day job is pretty fulfilling.
Do you give people disclaimers before you start? To let them know your more involved, “heavy handed” approach? Or do they just know by now with your experience?
Loving these vids, man.
I'm a long time Puppy fan and make music of my own. I was wondering what is the most you will change a song in mixing and editing? Which song that you've produced by Puppy changed the most from the original song you received to the final product? I wonder because I've never worked with a producer and was wondering how much my songs may change with a producer.
I guess I don't know the extent of how much a producer and engineer will do to a track.
Martin hannet comes to mind. I wonder if not for him how jd would have sounded
@ was that the dude that kinda forced them to do drugs before they recorded? Except Ian bc of his seizures.
Must be difficult to mixdown things that are meh while having great ideas.
BTW had GAS and bought a KingKorg.
I don't really see why anyone today, in the world of non destructive editing, would react so emotionally over a mix they don't like. It's not like you changed anything forever. It's just your input. Being a creative producer is kind of like being a temporary extra member of the band, and if that chemistry doesn't work well, hey, maybe it's not the best match. But you don't know before you tried. Doing any type of creative work your job is not to please the audience, or in these cases the band employing you, it is to give them what they didn't know they wanted. If they do not want any creative decisions made for them it is time to learn production themselves.
Thank you for sharing here Tung Tobak, I appreciate it VERY much! Your points are well said my friend, and that chemistry you mention is so important. More often than not, before I have a band sign on to an album project, we decide to try out the chemistry so to speak, by just starting with one song ;-) Most artists will instinctively send you one of the stronger songs on the album, so you will often have a great opportunity to produce a killer track. Just believe in yourself, and make decisions based around that lead vocal...when you build your mix around your lead vocal, it will almost always result in a better presentation of that artists song! This is my experience ;-) I love your comment "...to give them what they didn't know they wanted." Brilliant ;-) You sharing here makes this whole experience so much richer, thanks again Tung Tobak!
Cheers, -hw
I guess you just have to walk a thin line between being excited to hear music and growing thick skin.
Absolutely mic indir, thank you for sharing my friend ;-) Here's my rule haha...be sincerely excited about your production, take liberties to make it a better song, and be prepared to not take it personally if there's a less than positive initial response. The experience of that artist coming back later and praising you for the same mix doesn't have to happen more than a couple of times before you start to build confidence in the choices you're making...and you'll grow a thicker skin in the process. It's a wonderful realization, and it helps launch your productions forward in my experience! I appreciate you engaging here mic, cheers to you! -hw
Just a note on video production: throughout most of the video the light from your computer screen is reflecting on your glasses directly into the camera. It's a bit distracting with the reflection of the screen right over your eyes, maybe watch out for this video angle for future videos.
This is straight up a therapy session! Thanks HW!
Also, who in their right mind leaves Ken, of all people, a nastygram on voicemail?!?!
By far the best reaction to an over reaction is a calm, understanding demeanor [even if you are in the red]. Trips people up all the time, and the other party will usually gather that they are looking a little bonkers.
Hey Ken, where does "hiwatt' come from???