I’ve trying to tell influential people: THIS…is THE ONE! To be clear, the whole thing is brilliant, talk to my MPE Board should come, but mainly, SONICALLY, stunningless gorgeous sounds-gold standard for analog brass!
If I’ve never told you this before im telling you now. Since I’ve entered the word of synthesis you’ve been one of few channels that is not only easy to watch and to follow but is just as ENJOYABLE! And most of all Uber informative ! Thank you Scott!
This was the best review I've ever seen. I'm picking up my first large hardware synth. After a couple weeks of research I decided I will pursue the summit. This video was the cherry on top. Thank you so much!
I own one as of today. Your presentation is inspirational. It’s as if you are a phd with a doctorate of synthology. I am sure we will all benefit greatly from your imparted knowledge.
What a great review, so thorough and so detailed. This is the kind of review you only get from people like you who paid their own hard-earned money for their gear. Thanks also for being honest about the bugs. Novation should be ashamed of themselves.
I think you would love this synth Dom, it's a real player's instrument. I know you usually just track live right into Cubase rather than MIDI everything like I do, and it shines for doing this. Once Novation fixes the bugs, it should shine for both purposes.
Impressive review, sir! The best I've seen about the synth. I really love my Summit and haven't really been too bugged by the bugs (I'm with 2.1 FW now), which I suppose means I haven't programmed as much as I should (I've just filled a bank and a half of my sounds). The one that drove me nuts was the one that made me having to assign the pedal to Sustain every time I switched the synth on (as it's my DAW keyboard). Thank you so much for your work, liked and subscribed.
Many thanks for this review. I have been looking at this synth for a few weeks now as a potential purchase. I love everything about it, te 3 oscillators, the mod matrix. It just looks like a fantastic synth... Then i saw the end of the video. I had NO IDEA about the bugs and it has put me off. I am so glad I saw this as no other video I've seen mentions anything about it. Thankyou so much for your thorough analysis of it's capability and your honesty about the good and bad points. Looking to buy a new synth but will hold off for a while to see if Novation make any commitment on correcting issues. If not then back to the drawing board...
I had the same experience - I bought it based on reviews and TH-cam videos which showed off its great sound capabilities, but nobody mentioned the bugs! I'm really hoping for a firmware update soon that makes me LOVE this synth.
Great review thanks. This is a VERY GOOD synth, imo one of the most under rated synth's. I have some very good synths here.. also the "pricy" ones... but this one is just awesome. The sound, the filters!! , drive! effects (reverb, distortion, chorus) the matrix, lfo's options, env options, fm, just great. Interface! I realy love my polybrute for example... but if one have to go - the summit stays. One big negative- i wish i can input to the "matrix" by selecting controls and not diving into menu... like the pro3, polybrute etc. NOVATION LISTEN TO YOUR USER'S. Great review i watched it all and probably will watch it again, THANKS well done.
I agree. The Hydrasynth has the best mod matrix assignment method - you can do it in the menu if you want, or you can just press and hold a source, then twist or press the destination, and hey presto, mod matrix setup is complete! I was very much on the fence between the Polybrute and the Summit, but the Summit's 16 voices vs the Polybrute's 6 voices is what swayed me in the end.
@@ScottsSynthStuff I spent 6 months comparing the Summit with Polybrute. In the end the reverb on the Summit was too good to pass up. Fingers crossed Novation answers all our prayers with a Firmware update in 2022.
Nice review. I've had mine for two years now and this latest patch has fixed a lot of issues and added some nice extra things. Personally, I highly recommend this synth even if you have to toy for a while before really enjoying all the features and taming the beast. But what sure is, update the software before doing anything else.
Also that thing runs at insane clock speeds so any sound wave generated is really 99.999% the same as a true analogue one.... I have the summit. Never gonna sell that thing. One of the best digitals out there. Although the Hydrasynth amazes me too. Soo many good synths out there;...
This is an outstanding review. Covers everything and gives a really good sense of how the summit works, the sounds it can make, and its flaws. It's the only review I've seen that looks at the accompanying software. Next best thing to playing it yourself and in some ways it's better. Did firmware V2.0 released March 2022 address the bugs you mentioned? Thanks Scott.
Thanks for the very kind words! I actually posted a video on the 2.0 firmware very shortly after it came out, you can see it here: th-cam.com/video/biqDQ7lMbGM/w-d-xo.html
Hi Scott! This is a really great video! Thank you so much! It helped to answer a ton of questions for me. I’m currently deciding between this and the Hydrasynth. I have a couple of questions, if you don’t mind. 1. How do you feel about the current firmware on the Summit/Peak, present day? In regards to bugs, I seen Novation has released a few updates since this video. Did they address any major issues? 2. How does the sound quality of the Hydrasynth stack up to this and/or the Peak? What are the differences? I’m sure the analog filter makes a difference, but how much.
Maybe Novation could spend 60 seconds writing code to have a 'tempo lock' mode, with a procedural release. Maybe switch it to lock in menu, but to release, turn hard left, then hard right, then it won't trigger tempo mode without the left/ right turn. You are not the only one to complain of this.
Great overview. I’ve had the Summit myself for about a year. Interestingly maybe, I don’t have the problem with knocking the wrong knobs. I am blind and have memorised the layout. I always approach the data encoder from the left. And kind of have to count along when looking for some other control. But it works for me. Definitely think I am experiencing some of the MIDI bugs though when using with Reaper.
Unlike yourself, I have to resort to utilizing the crutch of looking at the display, rather than keeping track of everything in my head. :) Therefore I can't really use my left hand to operate the encoder, as it covers up the display. I never considered blind people as a video audience before. I know I take care to make my web sites compatible with screen readers (and those who depend on screen readers definitely let me know if there is something that doesn't work!) but I'm not sure how the videos come across. There's obviously no descriptive video track or anything of the sort.
@@ScottsSynthStuff Ha, yes. I forget you need to see the screen. I like the way this synth has been designed with very shallow menus and most controls on top panel. A Novation tech helped me over the phone, writing notes on some of the menu layouts... Video comes across well, the description of the architecture and possibilities. Will be watching more. Can't get any new synths though for a while...
Good coverage - I really enjoyed the Summit in my 15 min with it at Perfect Circuit, so I didn't know about all the bugs :-( I've been a Novation fanboy for a long time (and have a lot of their gear), so it's unfortunate to hear the issues - the loss of Chris Huggett (EDP Wasp, the OSCar, Akai-S1000 OS, Supernova, etc.) was a big one, so hopefully they will recover soon. The last thing I own that he worked on was the Bass Station 2 and it is wonderful. Nice Summit demo track inside. :-)
Hi Scott, Thank you for the great review. It's very helpful. I've been watching lots of TH-cam videos and ordered my Summit from Sweetwater yesterday. So I don't have it yet, but should have it in about a week. Yours is the first video I've seen to mention all the bugs. This worries me because one of the main things I do is to send the unit a lot of pitch bend data over MIDI using a ribbon controller. This is the only way to get the pitch bend control that I want and I use this constantly. I'm wondering if the unit has a problem with pitch bend coming in over MIDI? If it does, that would be a huge downside for me -- maybe so much that I would try to cancel my order if it's not too late. Pitch bend is not a regular CC number, so I'm hoping it works even if other CC's over MIDI don't. Can you let me know if externally generated pitch bend data sent to the unit via MIDI works? This is such a huge thing for me that your mention of all the bugs really has me worried. Again, thanks for the great review.
For me, pitch bend received as MIDI data on the Summit works fine. I have read of others who had issues with it, but I've never been able to duplicate their problems. MOD (CC1) however does not. One other issue with pitch and mod that I didn't mention is that when the Summit is set to Local Mode Off, and MIDI data is received, manipulating the pitch and mod wheels on the Summit (incorrectly) still affects the sound. This makes it impossible to (for instance) have a sequencer run the Summit, while utilizing the Summit to control a different synth at the same time, as the externally sequenced sound will also be affected. Admittedly this is a corner case, but it's still a known bug that Novation has confirmed.
Thanks for your excellent review, i am seriously considering this as my main polysynth. Do you think the bugs you mentioned are ironed out with recent firmware updates. Thank you
There are still a few minor issues, but for the most part, you aren't going to come up against them. It's entirely usable, and I use my Summit all the time for production. It's one of my favorites!
@@ScottsSynthStuff Thanks Scott, i have been in a tangle debating prophet 5/10, P6, OB6 and so on but the Summit is an exceptional synth from what i have heard in the videos so i think finally i can rest :) The Hydrasynth delux looked appealing but I feel there are gimmicks added to that machine, excellent synth but the Summit has an extra shine to it i feel. Sorry i only realised you had a firmware V2 update video, i shall watch that now. Subscribed now
So we have 2 noise generators…effectively. Neat trick. I know, this is an old video and I keep commenting. The thing is: I’m having to live vicariously through you for now, cuz I can’t yet buy a Summit. I will forgive the Ring Mod knob placement oopsy, since Summit is the richest Polysynth on Earth. Where I’m from, we say REEEE- web. Isn’t that just great that Novation went to the trouble to include a World Class Rah-VERB?? (I’m trying to show a willingness to adapt, a la my pronunciations) Glad for you that 2.0 came along at last.
Yup, I covered this a couple of weeks ago in my Firmware 2.0 video: th-cam.com/video/biqDQ7lMbGM/w-d-xo.html It does have a couple problems however - first, it means you can no longer scroll quickly through presets like before. It would be better if they did it like the Hydrasynth, where it only forces you to confirm when you've actually CHANGED the existing preset. Second, it ignores this for MIDI patch change commands - these still change the patch regardless, potentially losing any changes.
@@ScottsSynthStuff I didn't know about the MIDI, thanks. But You Can Scroll quickly through presets like before! If you touch any parameter, then, only then you will have to press Single or Multi to access the new patch. But if you don't change anything, it scolls very well as before with the CUE fonction ON. Which is about the same as the Hydrasynth (where you can't scroll through the patch if you change any parameter- YES or NO has to be answered before accessing a new patch).
Hi Scott. Hope you are well. Would you please state the maximum time segments of the envelopes...attack, decay, release, and what curves please? Also, I have heard that the Summit can not allow the arp to wait for the next measure to start, or other common and useful arp features. Lastly, heard some rumors regarding MIDI sync issues.
Very instructive review, thank you very much. Could you please inform us once Novation will have fixed bugs ? Another point too : You said problems occur when using voices from 9 to 16. So, do you have some problems when playing the A and B in layer ? It should be the case since when playing one note, you play 2 voices in that case.
It depends on how you're playing it. If you are sending data via MIDI (where a lot of those bugs occur), you can specifically target layer A by sending on the MIDI channel assigned to layer A. Sending global MIDI data in layer mode will cause both layers to play, which means the voices 9-16 of layer B will not play correctly. If you play locally in layer, then any of the bugs in voices 9-16 that occur when playing that way will show up on part B only.
HI and Thanks. I discovered your channel lately and this is the best explanations/review about the Summit. Bugs seem old devils from the past before they relaunched Nova serie... Any way two questions please: - some fans say there is some noise from the audio engine, did you notice? and then do you know if the Peak has as many bugs as Summit ? Thanks, now watching all episodes...
I believe the majority of the bugs in Summit are a side effect of the joining of the two Peak engines. From what I have read, anyway - I believe most of them are unique to the Summit.
It's not that big - the main monitor on the desk is a 40" 4K monitor. :) The smaller one you see in the video is a 24" Dell that I had sitting around. The monitor arm is one of these: amzn.to/3FOBLwB I normally have the Cubase mixer on that monitor when I'm recording, and then I have Supervision on there when I'm mixing.
FYI on the binaural thing; i'm aware this vid was pre 2.0 but just for readers.... 2.x added PanPosn in the voice section, so you don't have to reroute anything. Just make part a hard left and part b hard right.
Thanks for one of the most expert, honest, detailed and professionally produced videos for a synth that I have ever watched. I own 11 synths and had long waited to get the Summit, which to my ear was a digital machine that really "could" do massively powerful analog sounds. Although it sounds impressive, I'm so glad I delayed purchasing this high priced bug-fest and escaped the bad consumer "marriage" with Novation's unresponsive Engineering Support team. I subscribe to Consumer Reports to avoid purchasing bad cars from bad companies and I depend on TH-cam Sages like yourself to help me avoid the same risk with musical instruments. The memory of Chris Huggett, Britain's legendary Synth pioneer, the reputation of Novation's company and the legions of customers that they have set adrift all deserve so much better, than what is currently going on. Had they fixed these bugs, lowered the cost some and done a vastly better effort on mass market advertising, the Summit might have been a serious market disrupter (like Behringer's lower priced synth products have been). Their lack of management vitality on all accounts makes one question the caliber of leadership in charge and financial solvency of a company that ignores the reputation and support of its flagship product.
Thank you for the kind words. They have released a firmware update for it - not all the bugs were fixed, but many of the major complaints: th-cam.com/video/biqDQ7lMbGM/w-d-xo.html
A fantastic sounding synth. Hard to get a sense for how good this over TH-cam. When I got one, plugged in headphones, and was pretty wowed. I really hope they address the bugs. You mention the Cobalt 8 a couple only times, and it’s in the description. Any reason for that? I have the Argon 8.
TH-cam is never the ideal place to hear things as they mangle the audio so much. You get some idea however. oops! The Cobalt8 was in the description because I forgot to update my template! I've fixed that. I do have a Cobalt8 (I have a video on it as well), and I might have an Argon8 in the future...
Nice dive. Still interested for my setup even with its bugs. Gives unusualy good widespreadable sound. Wish it had sampled waves input for the wave table Bugs remind me of my Fairlight 2x way back when. Was still worth it to get its sounds and shaping. Hope they fix. I'm guessing they are crunched for hr talent they can afford
Hello Scott, just a quick question before I buy the summit or peak: do those bugs you mentioned in your video only apply to the summit or also to the peak? If novation would never make a fix for them, would you suggest buying peak instead of the summit?
The vast majority of Summit bugs seem to be related to the "gluing" of the two Peak engines together, particularly the MIDI issues, and those issues that occur only on voices 9-16. I don't believe most of them exist in the Peak. I do believe they will issue a firmware fix, but when they issue it, I have no idea.
sry to spam out on you, but this video really helped me. i think no lake's (fredrick kuyl, from ?belgium?) synth is maybe the best sounding synth out there, and i tell him that often, but i am really focused on the keybed. I have a DX7 which has global aftertouch too, so i could get a peak. My real question is about the hydra-deluxe. is that the deluxe keyboard that i'm looking for? can it be split like a workstation keyboard? multi-timbral is childsplay with a workstation and external modules on keyboard splits/layers and different MIDI channels. TIA.
No Lake does some amazing music with his Summit, I agree. The DX7 actually has a really decent keybed, I had one in the 1980's. It's a bit mechanically loud, but very playable. I have a Hydrasynth and a Hydrasynth Deluxe. The Deluxe is bitimbral like the Summit, and can be split and layered the same way. If you're looking to split a keybed and send it all over to various synths, look at Camelot Pro!
If I had to buy a new synth today it would be a Summit. The analog filters really make a difference. I don't care for analog unstable VCOs. I take DCOs or digital OSC any day, but analog filters really sound different to average digital filters.
They also drive different. Even with the best emulations of analog filters, when you raise the drive up to where it starts to distort, it doesn't sound the same as true analog.
I'm trying to decide summit or polybrute. Soon i will be buying pro3 and analog rytm mk2 as a drum machine so I was also wondering summit or polybrute would be better companion for this setup? I'm using ableton with foccusrite 4i4 audio interface to record the parts.
The Summit and Polybrute are both exceptional machines. You might want to look at your polyphony requirements - the Summit has 16 voices, the Polybrute has only 6.
Great review and explenation. I did bought my Summit last summer. I didn't know that the chief designer's died, neither about the many bugs. The last thing because I only touched the surface. For me so far the only thing that buggers me a little is; the keybed... it isn't that great like the one for the Prophet Rev2. The keys have some sharp edges. Or I'm just a bad player :). It's an 'ok' keybed but no more than that.
The keybed is not bad, but yes, the bottom edges are sharp! I wish the aftertouch didn't require several pounds of pressure in order to actuate - it's far too stiff.
Thanks a lot for this most comprehensive Summit review. I was contemplating to buy one albeit I‘ve got some other excellent synths - until your remarks about the bugs. What a shame!
your right compare the feed back on software company's like Parawave , Spectrasonics or PLuginguru they always give you an answer in 24 to 48 hours on any topic its al about service that keeps you from coming back
First of all, Great review. Its a shame about the bugs. Not to be nit picky, however you mentioned that FPGA stands for Field Programmable grid array. Just so we don't mislead people, it's my understanding that it's G stands for Gate not Grid. No judgement, I'm sure you had a lot to remember in such a long video. I could be wrong on this but I don't think so. I did just subscribe...Great Job on the Cobalt review as well.
Yup, you're correct! I did know it's Gate, not Grid...don't know what I was thinking when I recorded that. Sometimes hard to think and talk at the same time! :)
Well, the bugs and the lack of support is a deal breaker for me. I will probably invest in Jupiter-X, which has a lot of other things that Summit lacks. But again, not easy to choose from these.
Totally agree. They have lost a sale with me unless this is addressed very soon. Saw a recent Novation comment on another thread again acknowledging the problems but no commitment as to when they will be resolved. I play in a gigging band and this sort of ting is totally unacceptable.
I hit it ALL THE TIME, I edited most of them out (usually because I was swearing) but I left a few of them in just so you got an idea of just how often it happens!
I subbed. Hit like 👍. Great vid. Thank you. Looking for a great poly synth. Hip hop, pop classic rock, synth wave ect.. I have spent 3 months watching demo vids and reviews. I believe your technical analysis and comprehensive understanding of synthesis is up to par to say the least. Would you please answer this question without feeling responsible for my decision. Your input is valued my decisions are my own. Hydrasynth deluxe System 8 Cobalt 8 Rev 2 8 voice There can be only one for the next 2 years. I already own MPC X and love it. 🙏 Thank you 🙏 This was in the running, but I don’t like the bugs or lack of support so it’s out.
That's a really tough choice. From your list, I have a Hydrasynth Deluxe, a System-8 and a Cobalt8x. They are all definitely different. I suspect that for your type of music, the System-8 might be best? The other two can make otherworldly sounds, the System-8 is really ideal for classic sounds.
@@ScottsSynthStuff hey cool update right? Fixes most of the issues you mentioned in this video. Plus some cool new features. One big one for me is noise as mod source. I'm am pulling the trigger now and buying one!
Yes. The Novation Summit as I reviewed it in this video had a 5-stage AHDSR envelope for the amp and mod envelopes. When version 2.1 of the firmware was released, an additional delay stage was added, for DAHDSR - a six stage envelope.
"perfect analog sinewave" - sinewave is actually the hardest waveform to create using analog oscillators, which are all about charging and discharging, meaning they are all about peaks, which is why you don't see sinewaves on analog synths.
Analog sinewave generators are not too difficult to build. You can build them easily with a modified RC circuit driving an op amp. They're also frequently done with a different type of RC circuit driving an inverting op-amp to shift phase by 180 degrees. You could even just take a 555 configured as a square wave generator and run it through a capacitor ladder low-pass filter to smooth it into a sine wave. All methods depend on the linearity of capacitor charge/discharge, but with good components, it's not difficult. The real reason you don't see sine wave oscillators on analog synths is because a sine wave has zero harmonics - so there's nothing to filter. You can easily make any other oscillator wave sound like a sine wave with appropriate filtering, but you can never make a sine wave sound like anything other than a sine wave (unless you add artificial harmonics through drive or distortion). Sine waves are the basic building blocks of all sound - every other type of sound, waveform, etc. can be created by the addition and modulation of different types of sine waves - which is exactly how FM synthesis employed in Yamaha's DX-7 and FM-X engines work.
@@ScottsSynthStuff thank you. I did watch your I love it now 2.0. video. It’’s an amazing instrument, one I budgeting for, to be my Last Polysynth. Back when I owned them all, near the end, bought and sold Solaris…twice. As wonderful as Solaris was, it can’t compete with Summit.
You did not go anywhere in the the midi and remote control part. You would find out the major flaws of the midi implementation which actually renders it unusable for anyone working with a DAW. Novation has not fixed any of the known bugs for over 2 years. So if you play it directly - great. if you want to draw its full potential via a DAW .. forget about it. buy something different.
I think I did mention it - and I do understand, because 90% of what I do is with a DAW, and I am constantly having to find workarounds (as I mention) to figure out how to get it to work with and respond to MIDI - even MIDI data that the synth itself produced and was recorded into the DAW. It's by far the most frustrating part of this synth, and it's what makes me end up not using it in favor of a different synth.
It's definitely not total garbage. It's a fantastic sounding synth with a great keybed and controls - it just has some bugs. I remain hopeful that they will be fixed.
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I’ve trying to tell influential people: THIS…is THE ONE!
To be clear, the whole thing is brilliant, talk to my MPE Board should come, but mainly, SONICALLY, stunningless gorgeous sounds-gold standard for analog brass!
If I’ve never told you this before im telling you now. Since I’ve entered the word of synthesis you’ve been one of few channels that is not only easy to watch and to follow but is just as ENJOYABLE! And most of all Uber informative ! Thank you Scott!
Aw, thank you!!!
Thank you! Great song!!
This was the best review I've ever seen. I'm picking up my first large hardware synth. After a couple weeks of research I decided I will pursue the summit. This video was the cherry on top. Thank you so much!
Thank you Scott, very good overview of the Summit.....clearly explained easy to understand. Love this synth!
I own one as of today. Your presentation is inspirational. It’s as if you are a phd with a doctorate of synthology. I am sure we will all benefit greatly from your imparted knowledge.
I don't know if I would go THAT far!!!
It's like Scott is his own book of words in detailed explanation. Great lesson and review by far!
Super helpful walk through Scott! I'm getting the Peak and found the menu breakdown super helpful to save me time in the future :)
What a great review, so thorough and so detailed. This is the kind of review you only get from people like you who paid their own hard-earned money for their gear. Thanks also for being honest about the bugs. Novation should be ashamed of themselves.
Excellent review Scott! As someone who's considering the Summit for a while this is extremely helpful for sure!
I think you would love this synth Dom, it's a real player's instrument. I know you usually just track live right into Cubase rather than MIDI everything like I do, and it shines for doing this. Once Novation fixes the bugs, it should shine for both purposes.
This is an excellent review of the summit, thanks for posting it Scott.
Impressive review, sir! The best I've seen about the synth. I really love my Summit and haven't really been too bugged by the bugs (I'm with 2.1 FW now), which I suppose means I haven't programmed as much as I should (I've just filled a bank and a half of my sounds). The one that drove me nuts was the one that made me having to assign the pedal to Sustain every time I switched the synth on (as it's my DAW keyboard). Thank you so much for your work, liked and subscribed.
no lake, a youtube creator, is the master of the summit.
thanks for the in depth look, i want one so much
Great stuff there.. Amazing demo and reviews. I love it all the way
Many thanks for this review. I have been looking at this synth for a few weeks now as a potential purchase. I love everything about it, te 3 oscillators, the mod matrix. It just looks like a fantastic synth...
Then i saw the end of the video. I had NO IDEA about the bugs and it has put me off. I am so glad I saw this as no other video I've seen mentions anything about it. Thankyou so much for your thorough analysis of it's capability and your honesty about the good and bad points. Looking to buy a new synth but will hold off for a while to see if Novation make any commitment on correcting issues. If not then back to the drawing board...
I had the same experience - I bought it based on reviews and TH-cam videos which showed off its great sound capabilities, but nobody mentioned the bugs! I'm really hoping for a firmware update soon that makes me LOVE this synth.
@@ScottsSynthStuff Such a shame exercise it's looks a d sounds amazing.
Great review thanks.
This is a VERY GOOD synth, imo one of the most under rated synth's.
I have some very good synths here.. also the "pricy" ones... but this one is just awesome.
The sound, the filters!! , drive! effects (reverb, distortion, chorus) the matrix, lfo's options, env options, fm, just great.
Interface!
I realy love my polybrute for example... but if one have to go - the summit stays.
One big negative- i wish i can input to the "matrix" by selecting controls and not diving into menu... like the pro3, polybrute etc.
NOVATION LISTEN TO YOUR USER'S.
Great review i watched it all and probably will watch it again, THANKS well done.
I agree. The Hydrasynth has the best mod matrix assignment method - you can do it in the menu if you want, or you can just press and hold a source, then twist or press the destination, and hey presto, mod matrix setup is complete!
I was very much on the fence between the Polybrute and the Summit, but the Summit's 16 voices vs the Polybrute's 6 voices is what swayed me in the end.
Check out midisynth. It's an editor for the Summit that allows you to view the entire matrix on a single page within the editor.
@@rogerhunt3031 This is the one I use: peak-summit-editor.jimdofree.com/
@@ScottsSynthStuff I spent 6 months comparing the Summit with Polybrute. In the end the reverb on the Summit was too good to pass up. Fingers crossed Novation answers all our prayers with a Firmware update in 2022.
Great video. Many thanks for your dedication in producing this in depth review
Nice review. I've had mine for two years now and this latest patch has fixed a lot of issues and added some nice extra things. Personally, I highly recommend this synth even if you have to toy for a while before really enjoying all the features and taming the beast. But what sure is, update the software before doing anything else.
Also that thing runs at insane clock speeds so any sound wave generated is really 99.999% the same as a true analogue one.... I have the summit. Never gonna sell that thing. One of the best digitals out there. Although the Hydrasynth amazes me too. Soo many good synths out there;...
Thank You
I hope this video will make some noise and Novation will answer.
firmware 2.0 was released March 31st 2022. Nice features added and finally
Bugs fixed.
Yup, I covered it here a couple of weeks ago: th-cam.com/video/biqDQ7lMbGM/w-d-xo.html
This is an outstanding review. Covers everything and gives a really good sense of how the summit works, the sounds it can make, and its flaws. It's the only review I've seen that looks at the accompanying software. Next best thing to playing it yourself and in some ways it's better. Did firmware V2.0 released March 2022 address the bugs you mentioned? Thanks Scott.
Thanks for the very kind words! I actually posted a video on the 2.0 firmware very shortly after it came out, you can see it here: th-cam.com/video/biqDQ7lMbGM/w-d-xo.html
Hi Scott! This is a really great video! Thank you so much! It helped to answer a ton of questions for me. I’m currently deciding between this and the Hydrasynth. I have a couple of questions, if you don’t mind.
1. How do you feel about the current firmware on the Summit/Peak, present day? In regards to bugs, I seen Novation has released a few updates since this video. Did they address any major issues?
2. How does the sound quality of the Hydrasynth stack up to this and/or the Peak? What are the differences? I’m sure the analog filter makes a difference, but how much.
Maybe Novation could spend 60 seconds writing code to have a 'tempo lock' mode, with a procedural release. Maybe switch it to lock in menu, but to release, turn hard left, then hard right, then it won't trigger tempo mode without the left/ right turn.
You are not the only one to complain of this.
What a great review! thank you for sharing!!, I was wondering if you are planning to do a review of the UDO Super 6 ? ( Amazing and unique Synth )
I would have to buy one first!
Great overview. I’ve had the Summit myself for about a year. Interestingly maybe, I don’t have the problem with knocking the wrong knobs. I am blind and have memorised the layout. I always approach the data encoder from the left. And kind of have to count along when looking for some other control. But it works for me. Definitely think I am experiencing some of the MIDI bugs though when using with Reaper.
Unlike yourself, I have to resort to utilizing the crutch of looking at the display, rather than keeping track of everything in my head. :) Therefore I can't really use my left hand to operate the encoder, as it covers up the display.
I never considered blind people as a video audience before. I know I take care to make my web sites compatible with screen readers (and those who depend on screen readers definitely let me know if there is something that doesn't work!) but I'm not sure how the videos come across. There's obviously no descriptive video track or anything of the sort.
@@ScottsSynthStuff Ha, yes. I forget you need to see the screen. I like the way this synth has been designed with very shallow menus and most controls on top panel. A Novation tech helped me over the phone, writing notes on some of the menu layouts... Video comes across well, the description of the architecture and possibilities. Will be watching more. Can't get any new synths though for a while...
Wow you know your stuff. Great video. 🤩👍
Good coverage - I really enjoyed the Summit in my 15 min with it at Perfect Circuit, so I didn't know about all the bugs :-(
I've been a Novation fanboy for a long time (and have a lot of their gear), so it's unfortunate to hear the issues - the loss of Chris Huggett (EDP Wasp, the OSCar, Akai-S1000 OS, Supernova, etc.) was a big one, so hopefully they will recover soon.
The last thing I own that he worked on was the Bass Station 2 and it is wonderful.
Nice Summit demo track inside. :-)
I really, really want to LOVE this synth, so I'm hoping for a firmware update soon!
It's An allround synth very Nice and inspiring. 🎸👍💜🍷
Very detailed thank you
Hi Scott, Thank you for the great review. It's very helpful. I've been watching lots of TH-cam videos and ordered my Summit from Sweetwater yesterday. So I don't have it yet, but should have it in about a week. Yours is the first video I've seen to mention all the bugs. This worries me because one of the main things I do is to send the unit a lot of pitch bend data over MIDI using a ribbon controller. This is the only way to get the pitch bend control that I want and I use this constantly. I'm wondering if the unit has a problem with pitch bend coming in over MIDI? If it does, that would be a huge downside for me -- maybe so much that I would try to cancel my order if it's not too late. Pitch bend is not a regular CC number, so I'm hoping it works even if other CC's over MIDI don't. Can you let me know if externally generated pitch bend data sent to the unit via MIDI works? This is such a huge thing for me that your mention of all the bugs really has me worried. Again, thanks for the great review.
For me, pitch bend received as MIDI data on the Summit works fine. I have read of others who had issues with it, but I've never been able to duplicate their problems. MOD (CC1) however does not.
One other issue with pitch and mod that I didn't mention is that when the Summit is set to Local Mode Off, and MIDI data is received, manipulating the pitch and mod wheels on the Summit (incorrectly) still affects the sound. This makes it impossible to (for instance) have a sequencer run the Summit, while utilizing the Summit to control a different synth at the same time, as the externally sequenced sound will also be affected. Admittedly this is a corner case, but it's still a known bug that Novation has confirmed.
Thanks for your excellent review, i am seriously considering this as my main polysynth. Do you think the bugs you mentioned are ironed out with recent firmware updates. Thank you
There are still a few minor issues, but for the most part, you aren't going to come up against them. It's entirely usable, and I use my Summit all the time for production. It's one of my favorites!
@@ScottsSynthStuff Thanks Scott, i have been in a tangle debating prophet 5/10, P6, OB6 and so on but the Summit is an exceptional synth from what i have heard in the videos so i think finally i can rest :) The Hydrasynth delux looked appealing but I feel there are gimmicks added to that machine, excellent synth but the Summit has an extra shine to it i feel. Sorry i only realised you had a firmware V2 update video, i shall watch that now. Subscribed now
So we have 2 noise generators…effectively. Neat trick.
I know, this is an old video and I keep commenting. The thing is: I’m having to live vicariously through you for now, cuz I can’t yet buy a Summit.
I will forgive the Ring Mod knob placement oopsy, since Summit is the richest Polysynth on Earth.
Where I’m from, we say
REEEE- web. Isn’t that just great that Novation went to the trouble to include a World Class
Rah-VERB?? (I’m trying to show a willingness to adapt, a la my pronunciations)
Glad for you that 2.0 came along at last.
A CUE (on or off) option was added in the new firmware. If you change patch, it does not change unless you press single or multi. I like it.
Yup, I covered this a couple of weeks ago in my Firmware 2.0 video: th-cam.com/video/biqDQ7lMbGM/w-d-xo.html
It does have a couple problems however - first, it means you can no longer scroll quickly through presets like before. It would be better if they did it like the Hydrasynth, where it only forces you to confirm when you've actually CHANGED the existing preset. Second, it ignores this for MIDI patch change commands - these still change the patch regardless, potentially losing any changes.
@@ScottsSynthStuff I didn't know about the MIDI, thanks. But You Can Scroll quickly through presets like before! If you touch any parameter, then, only then you will have to press Single or Multi to access the new patch. But if you don't change anything, it scolls very well as before with the CUE fonction ON. Which is about the same as the Hydrasynth (where you can't scroll through the patch if you change any parameter- YES or NO has to be answered before accessing a new patch).
Hi Scott. Hope you are well. Would you please state the maximum time segments of the envelopes...attack, decay, release, and what curves please? Also, I have heard that the Summit can not allow the arp to wait for the next measure to start, or other common and useful arp features. Lastly, heard some rumors regarding MIDI sync issues.
Great Review thanks
Very instructive review, thank you very much. Could you please inform us once Novation will have fixed bugs ?
Another point too : You said problems occur when using voices from 9 to 16. So, do you have some problems when playing the A and B in layer ? It should be the case since when playing one note, you play 2 voices in that case.
It depends on how you're playing it. If you are sending data via MIDI (where a lot of those bugs occur), you can specifically target layer A by sending on the MIDI channel assigned to layer A. Sending global MIDI data in layer mode will cause both layers to play, which means the voices 9-16 of layer B will not play correctly.
If you play locally in layer, then any of the bugs in voices 9-16 that occur when playing that way will show up on part B only.
@@ScottsSynthStuff Thank you.
HI and Thanks. I discovered your channel lately and this is the best explanations/review about the Summit. Bugs seem old devils from the past before they relaunched Nova serie... Any way two questions please: - some fans say there is some noise from the audio engine, did you notice? and then do you know if the Peak has as many bugs as Summit ? Thanks, now watching all episodes...
I believe the majority of the bugs in Summit are a side effect of the joining of the two Peak engines. From what I have read, anyway - I believe most of them are unique to the Summit.
How cool is that big monitor on the wall. Shout-out to the Cubase Mixer :D
It's not that big - the main monitor on the desk is a 40" 4K monitor. :) The smaller one you see in the video is a 24" Dell that I had sitting around. The monitor arm is one of these: amzn.to/3FOBLwB
I normally have the Cubase mixer on that monitor when I'm recording, and then I have Supervision on there when I'm mixing.
FYI on the binaural thing; i'm aware this vid was pre 2.0 but just for readers....
2.x added PanPosn in the voice section, so you don't have to reroute anything. Just make part a hard left and part b hard right.
Thanks for one of the most expert, honest, detailed and professionally produced videos for a synth that I have ever watched. I own 11 synths and had long waited to get the Summit, which to my ear was a digital machine that really "could" do massively powerful analog sounds. Although it sounds impressive, I'm so glad I delayed purchasing this high priced bug-fest and escaped the bad consumer "marriage" with Novation's unresponsive Engineering Support team. I subscribe to Consumer Reports to avoid purchasing bad cars from bad companies and I depend on TH-cam Sages like yourself to help me avoid the same risk with musical instruments. The memory of Chris Huggett, Britain's legendary Synth pioneer, the reputation of Novation's company and the legions of customers that they have set adrift all deserve so much better, than what is currently going on. Had they fixed these bugs, lowered the cost some and done a vastly better effort on mass market advertising, the Summit might have been a serious market disrupter (like Behringer's lower priced synth products have been). Their lack of management vitality on all accounts makes one question the caliber of leadership in charge and financial solvency of a company that ignores the reputation and support of its flagship product.
Thank you for the kind words. They have released a firmware update for it - not all the bugs were fixed, but many of the major complaints: th-cam.com/video/biqDQ7lMbGM/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for going over these bugs, although a lot of them have been fixed in firmware updates. Liked & subscribed!
I actually put out a video on the new firmware for this synth, which supersedes this one.
@@ScottsSynthStuff thanks, I happened to stumble upon it earlier today. The waiting is now for my bank account to reach a proper level 😅
A fantastic sounding synth. Hard to get a sense for how good this over TH-cam. When I got one, plugged in headphones, and was pretty wowed. I really hope they address the bugs.
You mention the Cobalt 8 a couple only times, and it’s in the description. Any reason for that? I have the Argon 8.
TH-cam is never the ideal place to hear things as they mangle the audio so much. You get some idea however.
oops! The Cobalt8 was in the description because I forgot to update my template! I've fixed that.
I do have a Cobalt8 (I have a video on it as well), and I might have an Argon8 in the future...
@@ScottsSynthStuff Thank you for a terrific, detailed overview. Subscribed.
Nice dive. Still interested for my setup even with its bugs. Gives unusualy good widespreadable sound. Wish it had sampled waves input for the wave table Bugs remind me of my Fairlight 2x way back when. Was still worth it to get its sounds and shaping. Hope they fix. I'm guessing they are crunched for hr talent they can afford
Have a look at my channel - there have been firmware updates for this synth that I did videos on that fix most of the bugs!
Hello Scott, just a quick question before I buy the summit or peak: do those bugs you mentioned in your video only apply to the summit or also to the peak? If novation would never make a fix for them, would you suggest buying peak instead of the summit?
The vast majority of Summit bugs seem to be related to the "gluing" of the two Peak engines together, particularly the MIDI issues, and those issues that occur only on voices 9-16. I don't believe most of them exist in the Peak. I do believe they will issue a firmware fix, but when they issue it, I have no idea.
sry to spam out on you, but this video really helped me. i think no lake's (fredrick kuyl, from ?belgium?) synth is maybe the best sounding synth out there, and i tell him that often, but i am really focused on the keybed. I have a DX7 which has global aftertouch too, so i could get a peak. My real question is about the hydra-deluxe. is that the deluxe keyboard that i'm looking for? can it be split like a workstation keyboard? multi-timbral is childsplay with a workstation and external modules on keyboard splits/layers and different MIDI channels. TIA.
No Lake does some amazing music with his Summit, I agree.
The DX7 actually has a really decent keybed, I had one in the 1980's. It's a bit mechanically loud, but very playable.
I have a Hydrasynth and a Hydrasynth Deluxe. The Deluxe is bitimbral like the Summit, and can be split and layered the same way.
If you're looking to split a keybed and send it all over to various synths, look at Camelot Pro!
If I had to buy a new synth today it would be a Summit. The analog filters really make a difference. I don't care for analog unstable VCOs. I take DCOs or digital OSC any day, but analog filters really sound different to average digital filters.
They also drive different. Even with the best emulations of analog filters, when you raise the drive up to where it starts to distort, it doesn't sound the same as true analog.
I'm trying to decide summit or polybrute. Soon i will be buying pro3 and analog rytm mk2 as a drum machine so I was also wondering summit or polybrute would be better companion for this setup? I'm using ableton with foccusrite 4i4 audio interface to record the parts.
The Summit and Polybrute are both exceptional machines. You might want to look at your polyphony requirements - the Summit has 16 voices, the Polybrute has only 6.
Great review and explenation. I did bought my Summit last summer. I didn't know that the chief designer's died, neither about the many bugs. The last thing because I only touched the surface.
For me so far the only thing that buggers me a little is; the keybed... it isn't that great like the one for the Prophet Rev2. The keys have some sharp edges. Or I'm just a bad player :). It's an 'ok' keybed but no more than that.
The keybed is not bad, but yes, the bottom edges are sharp! I wish the aftertouch didn't require several pounds of pressure in order to actuate - it's far too stiff.
Yep, the bug that I get hung up on is the envelope memory (55:08)
Thanks a lot for this most comprehensive Summit review. I was contemplating to buy one albeit I‘ve got some other excellent synths - until your remarks about the bugs. What a shame!
your right compare the feed back on software company's like Parawave , Spectrasonics or PLuginguru they always give you an answer in 24 to 48 hours on any topic its al about service that keeps you from coming back
I’m torn between Peak and Summit. Would be fantastic to Summit as a desktop. I would buy it instantly but I have limited space for another keyboard
First of all, Great review. Its a shame about the bugs. Not to be nit picky, however you mentioned that FPGA stands for Field Programmable grid array. Just so we don't mislead people, it's my understanding that it's G stands for Gate not Grid. No judgement, I'm sure you had a lot to remember in such a long video. I could be wrong on this but I don't think so. I did just subscribe...Great Job on the Cobalt review as well.
Yup, you're correct! I did know it's Gate, not Grid...don't know what I was thinking when I recorded that. Sometimes hard to think and talk at the same time! :)
Well, the bugs and the lack of support is a deal breaker for me. I will probably invest in Jupiter-X, which has a lot of other things that Summit lacks. But again, not easy to choose from these.
Totally agree. They have lost a sale with me unless this is addressed very soon. Saw a recent Novation comment on another thread again acknowledging the problems but no commitment as to when they will be resolved. I play in a gigging band and this sort of ting is totally unacceptable.
Beautiful sounding machine but damn that tempo knob
I hit it ALL THE TIME, I edited most of them out (usually because I was swearing) but I left a few of them in just so you got an idea of just how often it happens!
I subbed. Hit like 👍. Great vid. Thank you. Looking for a great poly synth. Hip hop, pop classic rock, synth wave ect..
I have spent 3 months watching demo vids and reviews. I believe your technical analysis and comprehensive understanding of synthesis is up to par to say the least. Would you please answer this question without feeling responsible for my decision. Your input is valued my decisions are my own. Hydrasynth deluxe
System 8
Cobalt 8
Rev 2 8 voice
There can be only one for the next 2 years. I already own MPC X and love it.
🙏 Thank you 🙏
This was in the running, but I don’t like the bugs or lack of support so it’s out.
That's a really tough choice. From your list, I have a Hydrasynth Deluxe, a System-8 and a Cobalt8x. They are all definitely different. I suspect that for your type of music, the System-8 might be best? The other two can make otherworldly sounds, the System-8 is really ideal for classic sounds.
@@ScottsSynthStuff Excellent thank you sir! Appreciate the input. Yep system 8.
Hey, is the FM linear, exp, through zero? Thanks
For anyone wanting to know this, I found out that it is linear.
Yes it is...but I just realized that you found the answer already!
@@ScottsSynthStuff hey cool update right? Fixes most of the issues you mentioned in this video. Plus some cool new features. One big one for me is noise as mod source. I'm am pulling the trigger now and buying one!
Would DAHDSR be 6 stages, not 5?
Yes. The Novation Summit as I reviewed it in this video had a 5-stage AHDSR envelope for the amp and mod envelopes. When version 2.1 of the firmware was released, an additional delay stage was added, for DAHDSR - a six stage envelope.
"perfect analog sinewave" - sinewave is actually the hardest waveform to create using analog oscillators, which are all about charging and discharging, meaning they are all about peaks, which is why you don't see sinewaves on analog synths.
Analog sinewave generators are not too difficult to build. You can build them easily with a modified RC circuit driving an op amp. They're also frequently done with a different type of RC circuit driving an inverting op-amp to shift phase by 180 degrees. You could even just take a 555 configured as a square wave generator and run it through a capacitor ladder low-pass filter to smooth it into a sine wave. All methods depend on the linearity of capacitor charge/discharge, but with good components, it's not difficult.
The real reason you don't see sine wave oscillators on analog synths is because a sine wave has zero harmonics - so there's nothing to filter. You can easily make any other oscillator wave sound like a sine wave with appropriate filtering, but you can never make a sine wave sound like anything other than a sine wave (unless you add artificial harmonics through drive or distortion). Sine waves are the basic building blocks of all sound - every other type of sound, waveform, etc. can be created by the addition and modulation of different types of sine waves - which is exactly how FM synthesis employed in Yamaha's DX-7 and FM-X engines work.
Very informative! I feel like this synth is just missing one thing to really make it special. It’s a work horse but it’s just not sexy you know? Lol
I think it looks great, it's not flashy, but it's slim and attractive.
RE: BUGS.
Is this PRE or POST 2.0?
This video was PRE 2.0 firmware.
@@ScottsSynthStuff thank you. I did watch your I love it now 2.0. video. It’’s an amazing instrument, one I budgeting
for, to be my Last Polysynth.
Back when I owned them all, near the end, bought and sold Solaris…twice.
As wonderful as Solaris was, it can’t compete with Summit.
You did not go anywhere in the the midi and remote control part. You would find out the major flaws of the midi implementation which actually renders it unusable for anyone working with a DAW. Novation has not fixed any of the known bugs for over 2 years.
So if you play it directly - great. if you want to draw its full potential via a DAW .. forget about it. buy something different.
I think I did mention it - and I do understand, because 90% of what I do is with a DAW, and I am constantly having to find workarounds (as I mention) to figure out how to get it to work with and respond to MIDI - even MIDI data that the synth itself produced and was recorded into the DAW.
It's by far the most frustrating part of this synth, and it's what makes me end up not using it in favor of a different synth.
funny how you didnt find much sense for value buttons and immediately complained that you hit tempo knob
I own the Peak and i love it. Only by watching the video i decided to not purchase a Summit, going by this this is a total Garbage.
It's definitely not total garbage. It's a fantastic sounding synth with a great keybed and controls - it just has some bugs. I remain hopeful that they will be fixed.
It’s possible to talk less or no ?