All I remember from the 89 film was walking out of the theater with two friends. One said that he thought Jack deserved a supporting actor award; the other two of us said, simultaneously, “Supporting?!”.
I can’t say the 89 Batman’s plot is well-structured. But its set design and iconography - especially that wonderful batmobile - remain iconic for a reason.
The guy who did the set and batmobile design was Anton Furst. He won an Academy Award for it. Unfortunately, after battling alchohol abuse and drug addiction, he took his life in 1991.
I’m really tired of the idea that Joker is simply always been a chaotic murderer. Watch TAS, and Joker has goals, while wanting to kill Batman. Just as in this video he makes a comment about Vicki Vale, having too nice an apartment. Maybe she had family money, but being a reporter is very important to her. That’s just the easiest answer. Joker as an agent of chaos, is a concept most of these analysts get straight from Heath Ledger’s performance, and character saying it in the movie. They weren’t reading Batman in the 40’s-1990, unless it’s a classic run. Joker has been a gangster many times, in the comics. He has a gang. Nolan took from certain source material, to make a Joker, who only wants to prove Batman wrong, and feel powerful, after he does it, snd eventually makes Batman a villain. If he was not being ironic, saying Batman and Robin is the greatest, then it makes the rest of this particular video, just feel like he’s not being honest, or at the least, not being objective, snd simply writing a script that matches a point, whether it’s actually there or not. One can wax poetic, for eternity, and the idea that Burton’s are too silly to take seriously, then say that Schumacher was more cerebral, will never be true. I usually love these videos, occasionally I don’t agree, or think the analysis is correct, or very good, but this was 3/4 of trying to say “I don’t like Burton’s Joker and Batman,” then explaining it.
Honestly, I’m happy we have so many different cinematic incarnations of this one character. It’s interesting to see where one incarnation zigged and the other zagged. I definitely also noticed that the original Burton Batmans seem to be looking at the character from an outside-looking-in-perspective and a lot of the modern incarnations are from Bruce’s POV.
with the 89 movie, batman only started killing people when he discovered it was the man he saved, the joker who killed his parents. Before he discovers this batman didn't kill anyone. After he discovers that Joker killed his parents, he realizes that people like the Joker were truly beyond saving since the beginning. This is also why batman goes on a rage of killing by blowing up the axis chemicals factory and killing the jokers goons in the cathedral.
Honestly, it's weird to me that anyone can watch Batman & Robin without being entertained *on some level*. Even if it's a hate watch.... hate watches are fun, y'know? I love that film.
When I saw that film in the theater during its release, there was a moment that I experienced with the audience that one could ONLY experience while watching a movie as part of a collective. It didn't matter that the movie was good or bad -- it provoked a communal reaction like I've rarely experienced before, and it was amazing! *For the record, it was the scene with the Bat-Credit Card. We all groaned when it came on screen, and then we all laughed because we'd all groaned together. It was a beautiful moment!
@@MarcelLWalker IKR, that famous Bat-Credit Card scene, even a friend of mine joked about, wanting it to have to have the Bat-Credit Card in a Lego Batman game. The movie is an unintenional comedy.
I think all of these movies work if you view it in the lens of Golden age Batman transitioning to the silver age. From dark and gritty where Batman kills and villains die to light and optimistic where Batman makes cheesy puns and people are just plain goofy.
A lot of it stems from both younger people who were born after it came out and thus are not as judgemental and also the three incarnations since putting it into perspective.
Never hated it, in fact I find it as an unintentional comedy, but I know the movie is no good, but hey, if it weren't for it we wouldn't have Nolan's Batman trilogy.
Okay, when you got to the Batman part.. You got it DEAD ON. My favorite part, and the scene that, MADE, the film for me. Was the one with Batman and the flare. He must walk through the water, and reach out his hand. How it's not the city council member who, takes Batman's hand, It Is the boy who, at the beginning of the film, Bruce could only look at. Only try to empathize with. Now he is reaching a hand out to him. Healing himself, Healing his city. He leads the people out of the water, out of the pain. Out into safety. I love the humanity, the hero who is not just a symbol, who is fallible, Who despite his armored look. Is deep down just a man. Not a symbol, not a creature of the night. But just a man trying to make a difference.
I think, had Batman and Robin been explicitly Adam West and Burt Wards characters and a continuation of their story with their look and style, people could have got on board with the movie a lot more easily
You would be wrong. During that era, the Adam West Burt Ward style was still considered an unintentional joke and openly mocked. It needed a darker shift on screen to reach a new audience. Only then, would what came before be appreciated.
As a woman from a very traditional upbringing, Michelle Pfeiffer's performance never left me, especially the scene where she destroys the walls of her house. It's the closest weve been to a character study until Nolan took over, and made that movie stand out amongst the rest of the 90s franchise for me.
In Joel Schumacher's (RIP) defense, he has some certified hood classic gems under his belt, Falling Down was so good when I watched it that I bought it immediately after viewing. The Lost Boys is a powerhouse of a movie. Batman Forever is like a weird mix of Golden Age and Silver Age Batman and on many levels it works, if the studio didn't want a toy money making machine then we could've gotten a darker film with a far more complex Batman.
I’ve come around to it recently, not out of nostalgia, but out of appreciation, that Batman and Robin is a legitimately good Batman story. Aside from the scenes with Bruce and Alfred confronting mortality, the notion that Batman can be happy is becoming less of a reality these days. It’s fine if you want to pay homage to a style, making him a Byronic hero out of a romantic story or a tormented soul in a horror or a man on the edge in a thriller. But we never get the chance to see him happy. To settle down with the bat family. He either tears it apart because of his ego and paranoia or it gets undermined because the plot demands status quo. He can’t start a family! He can’t marry Catwoman! He can’t help reform his enemies mental health issues. This film actually see’s him help Mr Freeze, reform his ideology to cure people and work as part of a unit he trusts while reaffirming that no one is truly lost to him. Plus, it’s one of the few movies with little to no death. Only one guy died played by John Glover, and in the comics Jason Woodrue become the villain Floronic Man.
1:39 Joker being the Wayne killer started an annoying trend where the hero's arch enemy was responsible for their origin in some adaptations. Like Kingpin killing Daredevil's dad in the 2003 film. Or the Flash comics retconning Thawne into killing Barry's mother which was adapted into the CW show.
My three favorite lines in all of cinema all happen back to back in one scene in 89. "You wanna get nuts..." to "You ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?" and finally "Never rub another man's rhubarb."
Since I’ve started watching your vids not once have I thought they are less than stellar. Every one has some thought or idea that is thoroughly articulated in a concise, cohesive manner.
Still makes no sense. Adam West's movie was bright and cheery and fun ALONG with the silly dialogue and fighting. This one is far too seriously and dimly lit, and no one is having fun with the silly dialogue...except Schwarzeneggar.
Keaton seemed to have yhe best understanding of the character, IMO. As Bruce he was aloof, squirrely, and seemed uncomfortable. It was a fragile facade. As Batman, he was confident and more sure of himself. Much like Reeves as Superman. Just like the animated series, He even speaks like Batman when talking to Alfred alone. Totally different from the Nolan trilogy, which dropped thay ball in Dark Knight and never picked it back up.
crazy insane take to say nolan dropped the ball with the dark knight, absolute insanity. they're different, to say he dropped the ball is the peak of hyperbole.
nah thats just your nostalgia talking, they are all just diferent interpretations on the character there is no "best" or most like the comics (batman is a character with 80 years of history in the comics there is even more interpretations there) they are all valid
@@MrInsaneA I love The Dark Knight but the worst part of the Nolan trilogy after Begins was Batman himself. TDK itself was heavily carried by Joker. Batman Begins aged pretty poorly IMO (especially with its overuse of jumpcuts and shaky cam), but it did a good job of establishing Bruce's character in that universe. Also there's a reason the Batman voice became a huge meme, they really over did it and I think it was detrimental to the portrayal. The best interpretation of Batman that isn't a direct comic adaption (like TDKReturns) is Mask of Phantasm and ofc TAS.
@@asura7915 no, I'm quite certain I am entitled to my opinion that Keaton was the best Batman. If it was nostalgia, I'd be more likely to say Kilmer, because summer of 95 was just that kind of time for me.
Never been this early to anything before and don’t know how to react. Your videos give me a huge sense of nostalgia under a reflective lens and I’m always excited to see a new one. Thanks for your amazing work, it means a lot to a lurker like me.
Well these Batman movies seem very episodic like Batman got framed for murder by Penguin and Catwoman while in Batman Forever it was treated like it never happened because Penguin should have left an impression like Joker did to his parents.
Actually, when Bruce made his "revenge has become your whole life" speech to Dick Grayson, it shows that Joker, Penguin, and Catwoman have all left an impression on Bruce. It's the reason why Bruce kept refusing to let Dick be his partner and why he tried to talk him out of killing Two-Face because he didn't want Dick to end up alone like him.
WTF are you talking about? His films have plots and are great! He’s one of the best freaking directors ever. Sweeney Todd, Beetlejuice, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Batman, Batman Returns, Mars Attacks, Big Fish, Alice in Wonderland, Pee Wee’s Big Adventure, Edward Scissorhands, Corpse Bride, and more. All great!
Batman Returns is the best Batman movie, in my opinion. It showed that comic book movies weren't just for kids and that a movie like it could be more than just action. It really went into the psychology of its villains and how they were shaped by society. Yes, it was dark, bleak, and sexual but that is what makes it so intriguing.
This made me very badly want to see a full cut of Forever with those sequences restored. Knowing the material might have better suited his performance before those scenes were cut makes me wonder how underrated Kilmer is as Batman. Also, Michael Gough was the MVP of this series, a perfect Alfred every time.
Having watched the evolution of superhero films over the course of my life, from Superman '78 (and Batman '66 on TV) through the Burton films, X-Men through Logan, to where we are now with the slow death of the MCU and Reeves' new iteration of the grim-n-gritty Batman, it's all the stranger to step back and look at it all as a whole. I could write a book about it. For starters, one of the things people don't seem to notice about films is that very few filmmakers actually bring anything to film that wasn't already there. Before Lord of the RIngs, and even after, the fantasy genre in movies was a joke (the single exception in my book is Jim Henson's Labyrinth.) Why? Because fantasy is a genre that evolves outside movies, and most movie people tend not to look outside their own genre for inspiration. So 99% of fantasy genre movies resemble either Wizard of Oz or Spartacus, awkwardly shoehorning in the foreign aesthetic of the genre into what the filmmakers are familiar with. The same has largely been true for superhero films. Most superhero films tend to lift not from the genre's native medium, but shoehorn it into more familiar ones. Tim Burton's Batman may have looked terribly stylish, but its style was exclusively inspired by the expressionist movies of the 1930s. You could do worse, but my complaint, as with every other aspect of the film, is that the style was painted on rather than integrated in. It didn't help tell the story, because as you point out, there was no story to Batman '89. I think the struggle to tell meaningful stories with superheroes goes hand in hand with the struggle to realize them onscreen in a way that doesn't feel contrived. Because it's a genre that grew up in a medium foreign to most movie makers, they don't tend to really understand the core of the genre. And yet, they go back to it and try again and again. Why? I think because even they can see there's something about the genre, something it touches on, that captures this modern psyche of western culture. It's a cliche at this point to say that superheroes are our modern myths, but they do take the place of folklore in a way that no other kind of story can. They represent humanity's relationship to society, how we participate in it, how we find our individual morality within it, how we step out of it when needed. The superhero stands somewhere between the cowboy and the cop, not quite an outsider, but not a representative of law enforcement either. And the superhero costume and identity elevate the character to the status of embodiment of the ideals they live by. Batman's symbol MEANS who he is and what he believes in, and the action he takes. He's a symbolic figure as well as a brand. That's the modern age for you. So that's the perfect form I think filmmakers are struggling to find, whether they know it or not. But they're hindered by the needs, and sometimes the habits, of the genre. Spider-Man films are hindered by the need to show the actor's face rather than an expressionless mask. While in the comics, the mask is a key strength, allowing the reader, whatever they look like, to put themselves in the place of Peter Parker. As Miles Morales pointed out, "anyone can wear the mask." But films trade on actor recognition. They sell a personal connection with the actor as much as the character, sometimes even more so. So a live-action Spider-Man takes that mask off a lot so the audience feels more intimate with them. They also assume that the idea of the character just existing is enough to sell us. Too many movies grind to a halt to sell the actor in costume taking on a superhero pose, because from a superficial standpoint, that's what comics do, include a splash page in every issue to just show off the character looking awesome. But they forget that popular comics characters have long-since earned their glory, while the movie version hasn't. So when Joe Johnston's First Avenger film stops to show off how pretty Chris Evans looks all freshly swole from the super-soldier serum, it's unearned. As is the first reveal of his official costume. The far better reveal was his costume as he stumbles onstage to sell war bonds. That felt in-story and delightful. Joe wanted to create that sense of character admiration from the comics, but the story hadn't earned it yet. He hadn't done anything. So the swelling horns and crashing symbols felt like they were trying to tell us how we were supposed to feel about him, rather than sharing our own swelling excitement. Here again, the director was trying to recreate the trappings of comics without understanding how the superhero genre actually works. A far better example of a costume reveal was in Patty Jenkins' Wonder Woman, where the costume reveal at the story midpoint signifies the character's decision to act, and in doing so, become Wonder Woman rather than just Diana, visiting alien who doesn't know what to do. With a single decision, the character becomes the icon, her actions signifying what her superheroic persona means. I feel like superhero films are just starting to understand this. There are very few that truly get it. Whedon's The Avengers captured it, saving the iconic "Be awed" moments for each character's crucial transformation. The Batman got it, using Greig Fraser's gritty, naturalistic lens to capture iconic moments and images naturally, rather than stopping the story to show them off. Despite the costume pageantry, I think the key thing about superheroes is that they're not superheroes because of how they look, or how they pose, but what they're doing while looking fabulous. Superman may stand for Truth, Justice, and some other anachronistic value, but seeing him just stand there isn't enough. "Standing for" these values actually means acting. So when film-makers leaf through a comic and say, "It looks like they're just posing in a costume. I can shoot that no problem," they miss the point.
Having watched Batman through Batman and Robin when i was young I noticed more and more as I got older the negatives and less enjoyable parts of the movies. It's really nice to watch videos like this to remind me of what makes them still fun to watch. Especially Michael Gough as Alfred.
Batman Forever and Batman and Robin should have switched titles. In Batman Forever we got Batman and Robin, and in Batman and Robin we got Batman, Robin and Batgirl! It would make more sense if we got just Batman and Robin in Batman and Robin and Batman, Robin and Batgirl in Batman Forever!
I truly believe that campiness has a place in DC live action superhero films, but there should be a balance. Like the Spiderman Raimi films were grounded and campy. Which made it feel real, while also leaving room to get weird.
they are personally my least favorite spiderman films. i still think they're a fun watch, but campiness just ruins any chance i have of taking a plot or character seriously.
Batman and Robin is such an adrenaline fueled fever dream of a movie I love it so damn much. If you're willing to suspend your disbelief and just accept the nonsensical nature for the simple camp that it is I think it's a really fun time
The whys matter. Jack as Joker is obsessed with destroying beauty because he, a slick, vain gangster with Jack Nicholsonesque looks has been disfigured.
@@pyromaniac034 thing with Robert is, Bruce Wayne is almost non existent. He's so fixated with his vengeance crusade that there's no time to *be* Bruce Wayne. Not only he's not a playboy, he's not there at all. Keaton Batman is a reclusive, but socially active (to some extent) billionaire that *is* very weird.
Best part of that escape scene is it goes opposite of what usually happens where he famously vanishes and to make the best of it he totally screws up the landing and gets hurt
I really appreciate the love/appreciation for what is honestly my favourite of that era, Batman Forever, especially the acknowledgement of how it was supposed to be so much more and got cut down to the interesting mess. Also, totally agree on B&R being a fun watch that has a surprisingly coherent Batman arc (even if he feels like less of the main character than BF, it's still at least the same level as 89 or BR)
I gotta say, I loved both Tim Burton's take on Batman and Joel Schumacher's take on Batman. And I noticed that Michael Keaton, Val Kilmer, and George Clooney had played the Burtonverse Batman, despite the age difference and different portrayals, and Val made the best interpretation of The Dark Knight.
@Implicitly Pretentious I sit here as a 44 year old man and I haven't felt so alone. But Batman, and the way you've explained it all, makes me realise and re affirms my belief the greatest heroes are actually closer to the everyone person. Because we're all trying to do our best. Dealing with our own demons, pasts and presents. We're all goinging through days of victory and days of complete dispair. But, all through it is: music, the love of people we see as our angels and something which every person will see in their own way: HOPE. And then, there's your video. Fansastic. Thank you for all the hard work which went into this. Much love and gratitude, David "No defeat in death. Victory comes in defending what we know is right".
Brillant video, love how you didn't shy away from Batman and Robin's value as being a blob of pure ridiculous fun, but you left out the most crucial film, the greatest theatrical Batman release of all time, with the greatest examination of the character and the mythos put to film: Lego Batman. Not even joking.
Love the love for Schumacher's Batman, it's such a childish, shallow take to just write them off when there's some great character stuff and production design in them. They're such unique movies that have no pair, nothing compares to that great colorful, sexy energy. I love both Forever and B&R to death.
I saw Batman and Robin with mom in theaters. We were like !Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. I try to rewatch it every few years and can’t make it through the first act without getting angry,
THANK YOU FOR SAYING NICE THINGS about Batman & Robin, its SUPER enjoyable and I've been defending for years. People always trash it without appreciating the small emotional beats that work.
The Batman is my favourite Batman movie partly because it took all the right lessons from Burton's movies, Nolan's trilogy, and even both Schumacher films. Plus an overall tone of noir mystery that suits the characters so well. I'm so glad we're back to a good depiction of the Caped Crusader and can't wait for what Reeves has in store.
I love Bruce's arc in 89. He spends most of the movie trying to win Vicki over but by their penultimate scene together he's resigned himself to the fact that there's no hope for him, there will always be a madman for him to fight, "This is how it is," etc. When she says that she wants to try to love him, he pretty much dismissed her. He already knows it's a doomed relationship. In many ways his is still the darkest Batman, because he's such a tragic character compared to the others.
You're looking at the Joker wrong. You're seeing him from a perspective of someone who has seen The Joker over the last 30 years. The Killing Joke was a transformative moment in the lore of the Joker but it literally came out while Batman 89 was in production. It wasn't influenced as much by TKJ as much as it was by the silver and golden ages of Batman with a bit of the campy Adam West Joker in there as well. This whole agent of chaos and one bad day wasn't really explored until TKJ came out and then it spent the next 20 years being fleshed out and finally being brought to the forefront by Heath Ledger's version of the Joker in the Dark Knight. The idea of what the Joker should be has changed so much in-between the 20 years between the 2 versions that they are almost 2 different characters. If Heath Ledger's version came out in 89 people would've hated it because it didn't resemble what they know as the Joker. In the late 80's TKJ was a niche comic book that most of the public hadn't heard of. Only comic book fans knew it. And this is back in the pre-internet days when information traveled slower and things took time to permeate the zietgiest. In the late 80's Joker was seen as a psychotic clown. No more, no less. He wasn't Batman's other half or an agent of chaos here to teach the world a lesson. All that wasn't apart of the character yet. Those layers were added over the following years. So when you look at 89 Joker you have to strip away the last 30 years of the character and look at the 40 years before the 89 Joker. You have to see the 40's to the 80's. After that you'll understand why so many praised Jack's performance as he was able to combine the camp and the psychotic into an amazing and terrifying performance.
Haven't seen Batman Forever and Batman and Robin, but while it's that as a media of films they suck, they do sound like they describe some of the most important philosophocal points about Batman that *nobody* talks about. People always say he does this *only* out of pain, and that had he moved on he wouldn't be Batman. I don't believe that's true because Gotham would still need *him*, and Bruce would always step up for the task. It's a choice. A question that needs reframing. What is Batman? Alfred put it pretty great I believe
Batman Returns is probably my favorite Batman movie. Maybe it's just the childhood nostalgia (I watched it so many times i ruind the first disc as a kid)
4:24 the film is quite precient, noting that shrek is one of the most well respected monsters of our time - but noting this nearly 10 years before his big screen debut
I think the final grade of Reeve's Batman will need to be dependent on what they do with the follow up, and if they manage to grow beyond what Bruce was in this movie. We get to see him going from an angry young man taking his vengeance on the world and turning into the symbol and hero he needs to be, but now we need to see if he can build on that. I think the introduction of the bat family will be key in getting Bruce to realize that he is still more than the mission.
@@nightking0130 I watched the film numerous times as a kid and, thinking back, it was his Penguin that kept me returning. Phenomenal performance and a masterclass in diving into a character.
@@ShinySephiroth1 the only thing I don’t like is that they try to give him this sad death even though 5 minutes earlier he was about to drown children in toxic waste lol.
There was a moment - just a moment - in The Flasher film where that old Psychopathic Keaton-Bruce-Bat emerges. It's when he's stitching himself up with a fishhook in front of a mirror. He takes a moment, looks at himself, and lets out a giggle. It was the high point of a horrorshow, ghoulish nightmare experience at the.. Movies? Whatever that thing might be called. A Product.
I love Keaton's Bruce Wayne, regardless of the flaws of his films. Until Pattinson he was the only Wayne I believed was crazy enough to dress up as a superhero.
Literally the only reason I didn't hate Batman and Robin is because I adored the Adam West Batman and it simply reminded me of that. I didn't grow up with Burton Batman, so I didn't see the 'death of superhero movies' that everyone else did.
I will always state that, while definitely flawed, Forever and &Robin are not bad films in a vacuum, and it's the jarring tonal and aesthetic shift between Burton and Schumacher (at WB's insistence, I must add) that often makes them odd to watch as a full series. And while Batman Returns is my favorite Batman movie (and 6th favorite movie of all time, and 2nd favorite superhero movie after the 2002 Spider-Man), I actually think that Val Kilmer was the best live-action Batman in terms of sheet performance and characterization. Nothing beats the Animated Series for definitive adaptations of this world and these characters though.
Let’s see what Brave and the Bold gives us. I’m personally excited to get a Batman that isn’t held down by a director’s desire to make the character “realistic” and it’s about time we get the batfamily
B&R was clearly based on the 1960's Adam West Batman. You could literally watch an episode of that series and then jump straight into Batman and Robin with little issue.
Back when the internet had print articles on web pages, there was a pretty great comedy breakdown of the films (up through TDK at least), which I wish I could find now (I want to say it was Comixology or Comics Explained, but I feel pretty sure neither's correct). And they concluded B&R, much to their shock, was the best of the Burton quad, mainly because it's the one that admits the most to leaning on B66 without trying to do much else. (Can't say I agree with it being the best, but it was a reasonable hot take. In some detail, too!)
You know what I find funny about the One Bad Day thing? In The Killing Joke, he fails with Gordon and seems to fail with Batman... but in Injustice, he succeeds with mfing SUPERMAN.
I think your missing the point of the movie. I disagree with the point of ok bro after the joker dies. After batman has killed the man who has killed his parents by batman returns he's sitting in a room alone. Killing the joker didn't bring his parents back and he continued with his mission to make sure that no little boy loses his parents the same way he did. Also i like the idea that shreck, penguin and catwoman represent parts of bruces syche. Bruce couldve become shreck or the penguin or catwoman as he says "we're the same split ripped through the center".
Yeah, I know IP has stated his dislike for the Snyderverse but Batfleck really deserved to be here. Kinda weird to skip him and let his own bias make for an incomplete essay.
It's extremely comic book accurate, just not the right comic book accurate for what most Batman fans want to see. Like, even Freeze hanging out wearing a bathrobe in a freezer is taken straight from his first appearance during the silver age.
low key not a fan of the implication that every batman movie was somehow a failed experiment that served as a stepping stone to Matt Reeves' "The Batman" by the way. It's pretty easy to make a live action movie about a serial killer being hunted by a vigilante, which is what he did. It's really *difficult* to make a live action movie about *The Riddler* being hunted by *Batman.*
"You're just jealous because I'm a genuine freak and you have to wear a mask" kinda goes really hard and I don't know why
Because a summation of the theme of the movie, and frankly Burton's entire filmography.
It's just true.
That line Danny said in Returns was brilliant.
@@ender7278and it's about revenge. When you had revenge on your mind, you had some kind of vengeance in your brain.
@@mattgilbert7347yup.
Michael Gough being in all of these movies was legendary. Every other character was portrayed by someone else, except Alfred.
Helps he's easily the best Alfred portrayal.
That's not entirely accurate. Commissioner Gordon was also played by Pat Hingle in all 4 movies.
Alfred, Commissioner Gordon, Robin are played by the same actors. Alfred and Gordon in all 4 and Robin both of his appearances in Forever and B&R.
@@DerrickUltimano one would know the wiser tho, he was such a nobody
@@ninjanibba4259 Your ignorance of his prior experience does not make him a nobody.
All I remember from the 89 film was walking out of the theater with two friends. One said that he thought Jack deserved a supporting actor award; the other two of us said, simultaneously, “Supporting?!”.
You saw 89?
Pin for later😊
@@californiacombativesclub202 right.
@@evanzaremba4722 hell yeah now I can finish
@@californiacombativesclub202 exactly.
I can’t say the 89 Batman’s plot is well-structured. But its set design and iconography - especially that wonderful batmobile - remain iconic for a reason.
Because they were specifically designed toy sell toys
And the costumes too.
The guy who did the set and batmobile design was Anton Furst. He won an Academy Award for it. Unfortunately, after battling alchohol abuse and drug addiction, he took his life in 1991.
I’m really tired of the idea that Joker is simply always been a chaotic murderer.
Watch TAS, and Joker has goals, while wanting to kill Batman. Just as in this video he makes a comment about Vicki Vale, having too nice an apartment. Maybe she had family money, but being a reporter is very important to her. That’s just the easiest answer.
Joker as an agent of chaos, is a concept most of these analysts get straight from Heath Ledger’s performance, and character saying it in the movie.
They weren’t reading Batman in the 40’s-1990, unless it’s a classic run. Joker has been a gangster many times, in the comics.
He has a gang. Nolan took from certain source material, to make a Joker, who only wants to prove Batman wrong, and feel powerful, after he does it, snd eventually makes Batman a villain.
If he was not being ironic, saying Batman and Robin is the greatest, then it makes the rest of this particular video, just feel like he’s not being honest, or at the least, not being objective, snd simply writing a script that matches a point, whether it’s actually there or not.
One can wax poetic, for eternity, and the idea that Burton’s are too silly to take seriously, then say that Schumacher was more cerebral, will never be true.
I usually love these videos, occasionally I don’t agree, or think the analysis is correct, or very good, but this was 3/4 of trying to say “I don’t like Burton’s Joker and Batman,” then explaining it.
@@CorbCorbinthe amazing spiderman
Honestly, I’m happy we have so many different cinematic incarnations of this one character. It’s interesting to see where one incarnation zigged and the other zagged. I definitely also noticed that the original Burton Batmans seem to be looking at the character from an outside-looking-in-perspective and a lot of the modern incarnations are from Bruce’s POV.
And it's fun loving different incarnations of Batman.
I always appreciated Batman Forever for completing Bruce's arc and making him whole. It's not talked about enough.
We need that Schumacher cut.
Release the Schumacher Cut
Oh yeah. Both Akiva Goldsman and Kevin Smith had seen the workprint of Batman Forever called "Preview Cut One" which is about guilt and shame.
@@robertwild9447yup.
@@HerooftheWildexactly.
with the 89 movie, batman only started killing people when he discovered it was the man he saved, the joker who killed his parents. Before he discovers this batman didn't kill anyone. After he discovers that Joker killed his parents, he realizes that people like the Joker were truly beyond saving since the beginning. This is also why batman goes on a rage of killing by blowing up the axis chemicals factory and killing the jokers goons in the cathedral.
Honestly, it's weird to me that anyone can watch Batman & Robin without being entertained *on some level*. Even if it's a hate watch.... hate watches are fun, y'know? I love that film.
Definitely a "it's soo bad it's good" movie. Tons of cheesy one liners and wacky scenes.
@@chrismdb5686 When Robin reveals he was wearing lip condoms when he kissed Ivy! 🤣
When I saw that film in the theater during its release, there was a moment that I experienced with the audience that one could ONLY experience while watching a movie as part of a collective. It didn't matter that the movie was good or bad -- it provoked a communal reaction like I've rarely experienced before, and it was amazing!
*For the record, it was the scene with the Bat-Credit Card. We all groaned when it came on screen, and then we all laughed because we'd all groaned together. It was a beautiful moment!
Also, we will never see a city in a comic book movie like Forever and B&R again. It was like camp bladerunner, absolutely nuts.
@@MarcelLWalker IKR, that famous Bat-Credit Card scene, even a friend of mine joked about, wanting it to have to have the Bat-Credit Card in a Lego Batman game. The movie is an unintenional comedy.
I think all of these movies work if you view it in the lens of Golden age Batman transitioning to the silver age. From dark and gritty where Batman kills and villains die to light and optimistic where Batman makes cheesy puns and people are just plain goofy.
I love the Renaissance of Batman and Robin. Everyone is starting to love it and it makes me so happy
A lot of it stems from both younger people who were born after it came out and thus are not as judgemental and also the three incarnations since putting it into perspective.
Never hated it, in fact I find it as an unintentional comedy, but I know the movie is no good, but hey, if it weren't for it we wouldn't have Nolan's Batman trilogy.
Me too.
@@JP-1990and I even loved the theme of reckon with loss in the film.
@@jesustovar2549I never hated it. I loved the film.
Okay, when you got to the Batman part.. You got it DEAD ON. My favorite part, and the scene that, MADE, the film for me. Was the one with Batman and the flare. He must walk through the water, and reach out his hand. How it's not the city council member who, takes Batman's hand, It Is the boy who, at the beginning of the film, Bruce could only look at. Only try to empathize with. Now he is reaching a hand out to him. Healing himself, Healing his city. He leads the people out of the water, out of the pain. Out into safety. I love the humanity, the hero who is not just a symbol, who is fallible, Who despite his armored look. Is deep down just a man. Not a symbol, not a creature of the night. But just a man trying to make a difference.
I think, had Batman and Robin been explicitly Adam West and Burt Wards characters and a continuation of their story with their look and style, people could have got on board with the movie a lot more easily
You would be wrong. During that era, the Adam West Burt Ward style was still considered an unintentional joke and openly mocked. It needed a darker shift on screen to reach a new audience. Only then, would what came before be appreciated.
As a woman from a very traditional upbringing, Michelle Pfeiffer's performance never left me, especially the scene where she destroys the walls of her house. It's the closest weve been to a character study until Nolan took over, and made that movie stand out amongst the rest of the 90s franchise for me.
In Joel Schumacher's (RIP) defense, he has some certified hood classic gems under his belt, Falling Down was so good when I watched it that I bought it immediately after viewing. The Lost Boys is a powerhouse of a movie. Batman Forever is like a weird mix of Golden Age and Silver Age Batman and on many levels it works, if the studio didn't want a toy money making machine then we could've gotten a darker film with a far more complex Batman.
Phone Booth is also good
@@starblue6tv Phone Booth, my God that's a suspenseful film.
I’ve come around to it recently, not out of nostalgia, but out of appreciation, that Batman and Robin is a legitimately good Batman story. Aside from the scenes with Bruce and Alfred confronting mortality, the notion that Batman can be happy is becoming less of a reality these days. It’s fine if you want to pay homage to a style, making him a Byronic hero out of a romantic story or a tormented soul in a horror or a man on the edge in a thriller. But we never get the chance to see him happy. To settle down with the bat family. He either tears it apart because of his ego and paranoia or it gets undermined because the plot demands status quo. He can’t start a family! He can’t marry Catwoman! He can’t help reform his enemies mental health issues. This film actually see’s him help Mr Freeze, reform his ideology to cure people and work as part of a unit he trusts while reaffirming that no one is truly lost to him. Plus, it’s one of the few movies with little to no death. Only one guy died played by John Glover, and in the comics Jason Woodrue become the villain Floronic Man.
1:39 Joker being the Wayne killer started an annoying trend where the hero's arch enemy was responsible for their origin in some adaptations. Like Kingpin killing Daredevil's dad in the 2003 film. Or the Flash comics retconning Thawne into killing Barry's mother which was adapted into the CW show.
My three favorite lines in all of cinema all happen back to back in one scene in 89. "You wanna get nuts..." to "You ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?" and finally "Never rub another man's rhubarb."
Since I’ve started watching your vids not once have I thought they are less than stellar. Every one has some thought or idea that is thoroughly articulated in a concise, cohesive manner.
batman returns will always be the best movie of all of these
I always liked that 89 Batman overcame his trauma by/to build a family
Batman and Robin makes WAY more sense when you look at it like a Adam West movie. And it's GREAT.
Still makes no sense. Adam West's movie was bright and cheery and fun ALONG with the silly dialogue and fighting. This one is far too seriously and dimly lit, and no one is having fun with the silly dialogue...except Schwarzeneggar.
Keaton seemed to have yhe best understanding of the character, IMO. As Bruce he was aloof, squirrely, and seemed uncomfortable. It was a fragile facade. As Batman, he was confident and more sure of himself. Much like Reeves as Superman. Just like the animated series, He even speaks like Batman when talking to Alfred alone. Totally different from the Nolan trilogy, which dropped thay ball in Dark Knight and never picked it back up.
crazy insane take to say nolan dropped the ball with the dark knight, absolute insanity. they're different, to say he dropped the ball is the peak of hyperbole.
@@MrInsaneAshitty(?) hot take: TDK is a great movie and peak cinema, but only an okay Batman movie at best.
nah thats just your nostalgia talking, they are all just diferent interpretations on the character there is no "best" or most like the comics (batman is a character with 80 years of history in the comics there is even more interpretations there) they are all valid
@@MrInsaneA I love The Dark Knight but the worst part of the Nolan trilogy after Begins was Batman himself. TDK itself was heavily carried by Joker. Batman Begins aged pretty poorly IMO (especially with its overuse of jumpcuts and shaky cam), but it did a good job of establishing Bruce's character in that universe. Also there's a reason the Batman voice became a huge meme, they really over did it and I think it was detrimental to the portrayal.
The best interpretation of Batman that isn't a direct comic adaption (like TDKReturns) is Mask of Phantasm and ofc TAS.
@@asura7915 no, I'm quite certain I am entitled to my opinion that Keaton was the best Batman. If it was nostalgia, I'd be more likely to say Kilmer, because summer of 95 was just that kind of time for me.
As always; you never disappoint with your incredibly amazing video essays! This has got to be one of the best Batman studies I've ever seen.
Never been this early to anything before and don’t know how to react.
Your videos give me a huge sense of nostalgia under a reflective lens and I’m always excited to see a new one.
Thanks for your amazing work, it means a lot to a lurker like me.
Well these Batman movies seem very episodic like Batman got framed for murder by Penguin and Catwoman while in Batman Forever it was treated like it never happened because Penguin should have left an impression like Joker did to his parents.
Actually, when Bruce made his "revenge has become your whole life" speech to Dick Grayson, it shows that Joker, Penguin, and Catwoman have all left an impression on Bruce. It's the reason why Bruce kept refusing to let Dick be his partner and why he tried to talk him out of killing Two-Face because he didn't want Dick to end up alone like him.
Keaton IS Batman. Period. He doesn't play the character, he IS the character. Also, the Burton films are the only Batman films I acknowledge.
Why not any of the others??
A Tim Burton movie not having a plot? I am shocked, SHOCKED I tell you!
Me too.
WTF are you talking about? His films have plots and are great! He’s one of the best freaking directors ever. Sweeney Todd, Beetlejuice, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Batman, Batman Returns, Mars Attacks, Big Fish, Alice in Wonderland, Pee Wee’s Big Adventure, Edward Scissorhands, Corpse Bride, and more. All great!
@@Kevmaster2000 that's right.
@@Kevmaster2000 its true, but even Burton himself has said that he doesn't read scripts, somehow he prefers visual storytelling than dialogues
CRY THEN, 😘
Batman Returns is the best Batman movie, in my opinion. It showed that comic book movies weren't just for kids and that a movie like it could be more than just action. It really went into the psychology of its villains and how they were shaped by society. Yes, it was dark, bleak, and sexual but that is what makes it so intriguing.
This made me very badly want to see a full cut of Forever with those sequences restored. Knowing the material might have better suited his performance before those scenes were cut makes me wonder how underrated Kilmer is as Batman.
Also, Michael Gough was the MVP of this series, a perfect Alfred every time.
Having watched the evolution of superhero films over the course of my life, from Superman '78 (and Batman '66 on TV) through the Burton films, X-Men through Logan, to where we are now with the slow death of the MCU and Reeves' new iteration of the grim-n-gritty Batman, it's all the stranger to step back and look at it all as a whole. I could write a book about it.
For starters, one of the things people don't seem to notice about films is that very few filmmakers actually bring anything to film that wasn't already there. Before Lord of the RIngs, and even after, the fantasy genre in movies was a joke (the single exception in my book is Jim Henson's Labyrinth.) Why? Because fantasy is a genre that evolves outside movies, and most movie people tend not to look outside their own genre for inspiration. So 99% of fantasy genre movies resemble either Wizard of Oz or Spartacus, awkwardly shoehorning in the foreign aesthetic of the genre into what the filmmakers are familiar with.
The same has largely been true for superhero films. Most superhero films tend to lift not from the genre's native medium, but shoehorn it into more familiar ones. Tim Burton's Batman may have looked terribly stylish, but its style was exclusively inspired by the expressionist movies of the 1930s. You could do worse, but my complaint, as with every other aspect of the film, is that the style was painted on rather than integrated in. It didn't help tell the story, because as you point out, there was no story to Batman '89.
I think the struggle to tell meaningful stories with superheroes goes hand in hand with the struggle to realize them onscreen in a way that doesn't feel contrived. Because it's a genre that grew up in a medium foreign to most movie makers, they don't tend to really understand the core of the genre. And yet, they go back to it and try again and again. Why?
I think because even they can see there's something about the genre, something it touches on, that captures this modern psyche of western culture. It's a cliche at this point to say that superheroes are our modern myths, but they do take the place of folklore in a way that no other kind of story can. They represent humanity's relationship to society, how we participate in it, how we find our individual morality within it, how we step out of it when needed. The superhero stands somewhere between the cowboy and the cop, not quite an outsider, but not a representative of law enforcement either. And the superhero costume and identity elevate the character to the status of embodiment of the ideals they live by. Batman's symbol MEANS who he is and what he believes in, and the action he takes. He's a symbolic figure as well as a brand. That's the modern age for you.
So that's the perfect form I think filmmakers are struggling to find, whether they know it or not. But they're hindered by the needs, and sometimes the habits, of the genre. Spider-Man films are hindered by the need to show the actor's face rather than an expressionless mask. While in the comics, the mask is a key strength, allowing the reader, whatever they look like, to put themselves in the place of Peter Parker. As Miles Morales pointed out, "anyone can wear the mask." But films trade on actor recognition. They sell a personal connection with the actor as much as the character, sometimes even more so. So a live-action Spider-Man takes that mask off a lot so the audience feels more intimate with them.
They also assume that the idea of the character just existing is enough to sell us. Too many movies grind to a halt to sell the actor in costume taking on a superhero pose, because from a superficial standpoint, that's what comics do, include a splash page in every issue to just show off the character looking awesome. But they forget that popular comics characters have long-since earned their glory, while the movie version hasn't. So when Joe Johnston's First Avenger film stops to show off how pretty Chris Evans looks all freshly swole from the super-soldier serum, it's unearned. As is the first reveal of his official costume. The far better reveal was his costume as he stumbles onstage to sell war bonds. That felt in-story and delightful. Joe wanted to create that sense of character admiration from the comics, but the story hadn't earned it yet. He hadn't done anything. So the swelling horns and crashing symbols felt like they were trying to tell us how we were supposed to feel about him, rather than sharing our own swelling excitement.
Here again, the director was trying to recreate the trappings of comics without understanding how the superhero genre actually works. A far better example of a costume reveal was in Patty Jenkins' Wonder Woman, where the costume reveal at the story midpoint signifies the character's decision to act, and in doing so, become Wonder Woman rather than just Diana, visiting alien who doesn't know what to do. With a single decision, the character becomes the icon, her actions signifying what her superheroic persona means.
I feel like superhero films are just starting to understand this. There are very few that truly get it. Whedon's The Avengers captured it, saving the iconic "Be awed" moments for each character's crucial transformation. The Batman got it, using Greig Fraser's gritty, naturalistic lens to capture iconic moments and images naturally, rather than stopping the story to show them off.
Despite the costume pageantry, I think the key thing about superheroes is that they're not superheroes because of how they look, or how they pose, but what they're doing while looking fabulous. Superman may stand for Truth, Justice, and some other anachronistic value, but seeing him just stand there isn't enough. "Standing for" these values actually means acting. So when film-makers leaf through a comic and say, "It looks like they're just posing in a costume. I can shoot that no problem," they miss the point.
Having watched Batman through Batman and Robin when i was young I noticed more and more as I got older the negatives and less enjoyable parts of the movies. It's really nice to watch videos like this to remind me of what makes them still fun to watch. Especially Michael Gough as Alfred.
Batman 89 is such a great film in terms of its acting, cinematography and score, that its basic/unstructured plot feels unnoticeable
Every one of the burton / schumacher movies is it’s own universe imo, like an anthology. There’s hardly anything carried over from 89’ to Returns.
Batman Forever and Batman and Robin should have switched titles.
In Batman Forever we got Batman and Robin, and in Batman and Robin we got Batman, Robin and Batgirl!
It would make more sense if we got just Batman and Robin in Batman and Robin and Batman, Robin and Batgirl in Batman Forever!
In Batman Forever, you don't see Robin until we get to the circus and he doesn't even become Robin until the end of the movie.
Honestly miss when superhero movies were this unabashedly fun. Yes they're goofy and corny but they are undeniably fun to watch.
Bro really made Batman and robin sound like a masterpiece
But it's a mess anyway.
I truly believe that campiness has a place in DC live action superhero films, but there should be a balance. Like the Spiderman Raimi films were grounded and campy. Which made it feel real, while also leaving room to get weird.
they are personally my least favorite spiderman films. i still think they're a fun watch, but campiness just ruins any chance i have of taking a plot or character seriously.
Batman and Robin is such an adrenaline fueled fever dream of a movie I love it so damn much. If you're willing to suspend your disbelief and just accept the nonsensical nature for the simple camp that it is I think it's a really fun time
The whys matter. Jack as Joker is obsessed with destroying beauty because he, a slick, vain gangster with Jack Nicholsonesque looks has been disfigured.
I love Batman Forever and Batman & Robin. They are so fun!
Looking back, Keaton was the weirdest Bruce Wayne.
Right!?
That was kind of the appeal for me. He seems genuinely socially awkward like a man who isolates himself and fights crime at night and stuff.
I thought him and Rob were tied with that
@@pyromaniac034 thing with Robert is, Bruce Wayne is almost non existent. He's so fixated with his vengeance crusade that there's no time to *be* Bruce Wayne. Not only he's not a playboy, he's not there at all. Keaton Batman is a reclusive, but socially active (to some extent) billionaire that *is* very weird.
(directed by Tim Burton you say...)
I really enjoyed this. It simultaneously invalidated my need to rewatch 89 and Returns, but also somehow strengthens the desire.
Glad someone else sees Batman and Robin the way I do. It’s not winning any awards but it’s one of the most enjoyable movies ever. Always a good time
“….On a reporter’s salary?”
Brilliant video, mate.😊✨👍🏽
Best part of that escape scene is it goes opposite of what usually happens where he famously vanishes and to make the best of it he totally screws up the landing and gets hurt
As an aspiring comic book scholar (wrote my MA thesis about Dick Grayson/Nightwing) this video was awesome! Great analysis!
I really appreciate the love/appreciation for what is honestly my favourite of that era, Batman Forever, especially the acknowledgement of how it was supposed to be so much more and got cut down to the interesting mess. Also, totally agree on B&R being a fun watch that has a surprisingly coherent Batman arc (even if he feels like less of the main character than BF, it's still at least the same level as 89 or BR)
I gotta say, I loved both Tim Burton's take on Batman and Joel Schumacher's take on Batman. And I noticed that Michael Keaton, Val Kilmer, and George Clooney had played the Burtonverse Batman, despite the age difference and different portrayals, and Val made the best interpretation of The Dark Knight.
@Implicitly Pretentious I sit here as a 44 year old man and I haven't felt so alone.
But Batman, and the way you've explained it all, makes me realise and re affirms my belief the greatest heroes are actually closer to the everyone person.
Because we're all trying to do our best. Dealing with our own demons, pasts and presents.
We're all goinging through days of victory and days of complete dispair.
But, all through it is: music, the love of people we see as our angels and something which every person will see in their own way: HOPE.
And then, there's your video. Fansastic. Thank you for all the hard work which went into this.
Much love and gratitude,
David
"No defeat in death. Victory comes in defending what we know is right".
I LOVE this video wow. Opened my eyes to these old films and what they were actually trying to see.
Brillant video, love how you didn't shy away from Batman and Robin's value as being a blob of pure ridiculous fun, but you left out the most crucial film, the greatest theatrical Batman release of all time, with the greatest examination of the character and the mythos put to film:
Lego Batman.
Not even joking.
This video was wonderful, and one of my new favorite video essays on Batman of yours. Well done! 🙂
10:28 More akin to watching him jump off a building, fail spectacularly, get up, dust himself off and DO IT AGAIN
Love the love for Schumacher's Batman, it's such a childish, shallow take to just write them off when there's some great character stuff and production design in them. They're such unique movies that have no pair, nothing compares to that great colorful, sexy energy. I love both Forever and B&R to death.
This might be one of my generally favorite videos from you so far. Very interesting take on the old movies and wrapped together very cleanly
I'm glad people are coming around to the later films. I've always loved them
I saw Batman and Robin with mom in theaters. We were like !Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. I try to rewatch it every few years and can’t make it through the first act without getting angry,
Grateful as always.
Btw PLEASE do make the "Comparing Batmen" series!
Thank you! I have thought that B&R is the best for the longest time. It's so fun. It reminded me of old Adam west batman.
THANK YOU FOR SAYING NICE THINGS about Batman & Robin, its SUPER enjoyable and I've been defending for years. People always trash it without appreciating the small emotional beats that work.
dude that bat puppet is fucking sick. i'd love for them to do more abstract shit with batman like that again.
The Batman is my favourite Batman movie partly because it took all the right lessons from Burton's movies, Nolan's trilogy, and even both Schumacher films. Plus an overall tone of noir mystery that suits the characters so well. I'm so glad we're back to a good depiction of the Caped Crusader and can't wait for what Reeves has in store.
I love Bruce's arc in 89. He spends most of the movie trying to win Vicki over but by their penultimate scene together he's resigned himself to the fact that there's no hope for him, there will always be a madman for him to fight, "This is how it is," etc. When she says that she wants to try to love him, he pretty much dismissed her. He already knows it's a doomed relationship. In many ways his is still the darkest Batman, because he's such a tragic character compared to the others.
I honestly cannot believe that I'm only just discovering your channel. Your content is superb.
You're looking at the Joker wrong. You're seeing him from a perspective of someone who has seen The Joker over the last 30 years. The Killing Joke was a transformative moment in the lore of the Joker but it literally came out while Batman 89 was in production. It wasn't influenced as much by TKJ as much as it was by the silver and golden ages of Batman with a bit of the campy Adam West Joker in there as well.
This whole agent of chaos and one bad day wasn't really explored until TKJ came out and then it spent the next 20 years being fleshed out and finally being brought to the forefront by Heath Ledger's version of the Joker in the Dark Knight. The idea of what the Joker should be has changed so much in-between the 20 years between the 2 versions that they are almost 2 different characters. If Heath Ledger's version came out in 89 people would've hated it because it didn't resemble what they know as the Joker.
In the late 80's TKJ was a niche comic book that most of the public hadn't heard of. Only comic book fans knew it. And this is back in the pre-internet days when information traveled slower and things took time to permeate the zietgiest. In the late 80's Joker was seen as a psychotic clown. No more, no less. He wasn't Batman's other half or an agent of chaos here to teach the world a lesson. All that wasn't apart of the character yet. Those layers were added over the following years.
So when you look at 89 Joker you have to strip away the last 30 years of the character and look at the 40 years before the 89 Joker. You have to see the 40's to the 80's. After that you'll understand why so many praised Jack's performance as he was able to combine the camp and the psychotic into an amazing and terrifying performance.
Haven't seen Batman Forever and Batman and Robin, but while it's that as a media of films they suck, they do sound like they describe some of the most important philosophocal points about Batman that *nobody* talks about.
People always say he does this *only* out of pain, and that had he moved on he wouldn't be Batman. I don't believe that's true because Gotham would still need *him*, and Bruce would always step up for the task.
It's a choice. A question that needs reframing.
What is Batman? Alfred put it pretty great I believe
I have to agree Batman & Robin is completely fucking metal for no reason. It’s like someone cranked an improbability drive to 100%
Finally, someone who appreciates Batman & Robin as much as I do.
Batman Returns is probably my favorite Batman movie. Maybe it's just the childhood nostalgia (I watched it so many times i ruind the first disc as a kid)
4:24 the film is quite precient, noting that shrek is one of the most well respected monsters of our time - but noting this nearly 10 years before his big screen debut
I think the final grade of Reeve's Batman will need to be dependent on what they do with the follow up, and if they manage to grow beyond what Bruce was in this movie. We get to see him going from an angry young man taking his vengeance on the world and turning into the symbol and hero he needs to be, but now we need to see if he can build on that. I think the introduction of the bat family will be key in getting Bruce to realize that he is still more than the mission.
Am I the only one that finds penguins performance in returns hilarious and brilliant
He really did an *amazing* job and if the Academy weren't biased toward comic movies, he would have been nominated for an Oscar.
@@ShinySephiroth1 one of the most underrated villains ever not just comic books. Yes his arc was a bit messy but the performance alone was masterful
@@nightking0130 I watched the film numerous times as a kid and, thinking back, it was his Penguin that kept me returning. Phenomenal performance and a masterclass in diving into a character.
@@ShinySephiroth1 the only thing I don’t like is that they try to give him this sad death even though 5 minutes earlier he was about to drown children in toxic waste lol.
@nightking0130 yeah, that was weird/dumb. Whole movie is insane, haha.
need the schumaker cut now more than ever
That's right.
There was a moment - just a moment - in The Flasher film where that old Psychopathic Keaton-Bruce-Bat emerges.
It's when he's stitching himself up with a fishhook in front of a mirror. He takes a moment, looks at himself, and lets out a giggle. It was the high point of a horrorshow, ghoulish nightmare experience at the.. Movies? Whatever that thing might be called. A Product.
How does this guy make Batman and robin feel deep
cant believe we are getting a 5th movie in this series that is even worse
The flash?
I love Keaton's Bruce Wayne, regardless of the flaws of his films. Until Pattinson he was the only Wayne I believed was crazy enough to dress up as a superhero.
I agree!
Literally the only reason I didn't hate Batman and Robin is because I adored the Adam West Batman and it simply reminded me of that. I didn't grow up with Burton Batman, so I didn't see the 'death of superhero movies' that everyone else did.
I will always state that, while definitely flawed, Forever and &Robin are not bad films in a vacuum, and it's the jarring tonal and aesthetic shift between Burton and Schumacher (at WB's insistence, I must add) that often makes them odd to watch as a full series.
And while Batman Returns is my favorite Batman movie (and 6th favorite movie of all time, and 2nd favorite superhero movie after the 2002 Spider-Man), I actually think that Val Kilmer was the best live-action Batman in terms of sheet performance and characterization.
Nothing beats the Animated Series for definitive adaptations of this world and these characters though.
Let’s see what Brave and the Bold gives us. I’m personally excited to get a Batman that isn’t held down by a director’s desire to make the character “realistic” and it’s about time we get the batfamily
This 💯
B&R was clearly based on the 1960's Adam West Batman. You could literally watch an episode of that series and then jump straight into Batman and Robin with little issue.
This concludes what Ive been saying all along. Batman and Robin is the best of the 90s batman movies.
Back when the internet had print articles on web pages, there was a pretty great comedy breakdown of the films (up through TDK at least), which I wish I could find now (I want to say it was Comixology or Comics Explained, but I feel pretty sure neither's correct). And they concluded B&R, much to their shock, was the best of the Burton quad, mainly because it's the one that admits the most to leaning on B66 without trying to do much else. (Can't say I agree with it being the best, but it was a reasonable hot take. In some detail, too!)
You know what I find funny about the One Bad Day thing? In The Killing Joke, he fails with Gordon and seems to fail with Batman... but in Injustice, he succeeds with mfing SUPERMAN.
I love Burton's Batman movies. Also Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman is best Catwoman. That suit... *rawr*
I think your missing the point of the movie. I disagree with the point of ok bro after the joker dies. After batman has killed the man who has killed his parents by batman returns he's sitting in a room alone. Killing the joker didn't bring his parents back and he continued with his mission to make sure that no little boy loses his parents the same way he did.
Also i like the idea that shreck, penguin and catwoman represent parts of bruces syche. Bruce couldve become shreck or the penguin or catwoman as he says "we're the same split ripped through the center".
Another great video, kinda disappointed batfleck wasnt in it but that ending was hilarious 😂
Yeah, I know IP has stated his dislike for the Snyderverse but Batfleck really deserved to be here. Kinda weird to skip him and let his own bias make for an incomplete essay.
9:15 - One year. Blade was made in 1998.
This video deserves a like alone for the fact that it made me want to go and watch Batman & Robin again haha
This is your best work till date
She has a massive apartment because rents are low in gotham.
Valid point.
"Batman, why did you create that guy?"
It's so weird watching Batman Returns after watching Always Sunny in Philadelphia. It's like Oswald and Frank are the same character hahahah
Keatons Batman Duology: All the Lonely People
YES! I love Batman & Robin. I see it as the spiritual successor to Adam West’s Batman
It's extremely comic book accurate, just not the right comic book accurate for what most Batman fans want to see. Like, even Freeze hanging out wearing a bathrobe in a freezer is taken straight from his first appearance during the silver age.
All my favorite TH-camr's posting today, today's a wonderful day.
Let's all come together and remember BAT CREDIT CARD????
low key not a fan of the implication that every batman movie was somehow a failed experiment that served as a stepping stone to Matt Reeves' "The Batman" by the way.
It's pretty easy to make a live action movie about a serial killer being hunted by a vigilante, which is what he did. It's really *difficult* to make a live action movie about *The Riddler* being hunted by *Batman.*
was also made in the last gasp of mass understanding that batman is intended for children.. those were the days.