Would you consider doing a video on motor maintenance? Bearing lubrication, cleaning, etc? Forgive me if you already have a video of this, I couldn't find it.
I haven't done it because to be honest I don't really maintain my motors. I mean, if they get a little dirty I blow them out with air but other than that, not really.
For the most part canned air will get them clean. I got a bunch of mud in mine so I grabbed a can of motor cleaner at the local hobby shop. Just spray till it runs clear and then blast it with air to dry off and put a couple drops of oil on the bearings. That was for one muddy crash. Other than that I haven't had motors last long enough to know if they are too dirty yet :D
@@JoshuaBardwell Just saw in another of your videos where you were reviewing 2600 or 2700kv motors which "ripped" and were very smooth at the beginning (and also smoked your pack and got pretty hot), but developed bearing issues/noise very rapidly. Also you showed some white smoke in your flight video without visible damage to the motor. I can tell you the probable reason, it has to do with maintenance, but also thinking in more simple mechanical terms. What happened IMO (it has happened to me in a larger - thermally challenged - RC helicopter quite a lot) is that the motors got hot enough to liquefy the bearing grease. When this happens (usually when heat is applied, i.e. load during use), the liquid - we call it oil in this state ;) - gets flung out of the bearing and distributed everywhere in the vicinity. When oil hits a hot metal part, it will start to evaporate/fry off if there is enough heat. This usually happens as you slow down from prolonged load, not at WOT. Reason being, the motor stores the heat being produced during load, as it needs a bit of time to conduct the heat from inside the stator to the surface, but when it slows down, it has much less cooling available (proportional to RPM). So the heat builds up and can get excessively high very quickly even though you think you're letting it cool. Keep up a bit of rpm even while trying to keep load low after prolonged high loads. So the smoke might be this, but the bearing issues are almost definitely related to bearing grease liquefying and exiting the bearings, which then take damage if the lubricant is not replaced. So either replacing the bearing grease or using some higher-temperature-resistant lubricant will help if you can't get rid of the heat otherwise (heat exchanger on the heli, just a large aluminium heatsink bolted to the base plate). Of course, weight is not as much of an issue on a heli ^^ on a race/freestyle quad you're probably better off changing your setup or taking care of your motors.
How does skin effect work with enameled windings? Are these windings silver coated copper then enamelled with silver coloured enamel... or more likely, just silver coloured enamel?
Thank you Josh... I've been trying to educate folks on the importance of weight in the motors by comparing to the ages old automobile racers' concepts of "unsprung weight" vs "sprung weight". VERY important with FFF and acro flight.
Good review Josh, as usual :-) . I was happy to see you using the metric system, I'm a happy Canadian! I do like the no-bottom motor design. I'm looking forward to see how it's design will fair after some abuse. Continue the awesome work!!
I have really switched over to metric a lot since going into RC. Millimeters especially are far superior for casual use compared to 8th's and 16th's. Way easier to imagine a cm and then divide it by 10 compared to fractions of an inch.
Joshua Bardwell you US guys with your inches amaze me. Having such complicated system. It looks way harder than metric which is logical and easy. All world should be metric...
yeah, quadcopters are in the sweet spot between where imperial isn't precise enough and machinist language takes over because decimals start to get annoying
I love the sight of tightly wound stators in the morning!! Motor looks like it should be easy to clean, without taking it apart. Important when you live in an iron rich environment.
Its because when the hobby started it started by using airplane motors and they use 16x19. After that it just stuck until now that mini quads are a standalone market
Drakin FPV The Motor FIREWAL usually has more strength and Leverage by not allowing it to be perfectly Square. It also fit the basic shape of the airplanes fuselage. All you have to do is look at a set of (Nitro Motor Mounts) like I use to use back in the Good Old O.S. MAX Days:)
The real advantage of the 16X16 mounting pattern is the tiny weight savings. Less metal = less weight. I can't imagine any other advantage. Same as the spokes on the top besides the similarities to the RR emblem. If we are SO worried about the additional 3 grams on the outside of the COG, I'd argue a 4 in 1 esc outweighs most all disadvantages.
I do think the "not having to flip over your arm after you installed it wrong by accident" is nice. Your point about the 4-in-1 is a good one. On the one hand, nit-picking about weight is kind of pointless. But on the other hand, the only way to really save weight on most of these builds is via cumulative nit-picking.
For me the price is the real downside. Especially for international orders. $25 each + crazy martian shipping + probably customs taxes = not so hype train. Thanks for the nice review Joshua and happy flying!
This price seems to be normal for higher end motors. Also I hope that other manufacturers will adapt this technology so it will be available in my country, because shipping from RR to Europe is ridiculous.
I love that they named them Hype Train motors. I WANT these motors, but I don't think I need them with a bunch of Armattan oomphs on my quads. They look so damn pretty, though.
As always mate, great review with a shit ton of info. Let's face it, this is not a cheap hobby/sport and everyone has their own budget, but I don't think $25 is a bad price for a motor that performs and is clean in it's power usage. After cheeping out on motors/ESC's and having VTX's static have lines and/or die from voltage spikes, all my current quads are full KISS now, so $25 for a component is not out of the norm. I might just try these for my next build and see how they go against the Lumenier 2206 2350 I am loving at the moment. Like most people, I have learned the expensive way. Now I buy once and cry once rather than buy many times and cry multiple times. Cheers
BadWallaby I had never thought of that. I put some new motors on mine (not these, ones with really thick bottoms) and I could not tell if it was touching. Come to think of it, I still don't.
Drone Punk FPV have you actually had that happen? (Not being sarcastic or rude, actually serious) I wonder if you could take like a plastic motor guard or something.
That's not true for me at least. Yeah you can see the screw coming through but I still managed to accidentally miss where one was just barely contacting a winding.
Fuzzwad yes had that happen! On my first batch of the EFAW2407's I can show you the picture of the motor. Just my bad luck I guess. I guess I hit a cedar tree just right. I actually backed into it somehow! They are great motors otherwise. I did order 5 of these new RR motors to try out.
Hey Josh, regarding the novelty of open bottom motors; I built my first (pre multi wii era) quad about 9 years ago using 4 cheapo "Bell motors" as we used to call them. Totally agree that every gram saved on the frame extremities is worth it- may allow lower D term.
Great review...Unless there's a hunk of crap in the bell, cleaning is a PITA. Even replacing the bell cost isn't likely justified. Just swap out with a new one. Quads are consumables.
hi Joshua! Have you ever tried reversed motors? I'm just testing such setup and foud out, that there are at least two huge advantages - the camera stays allways clean and there are much less chanses to get stuck in the grass or between other obsacles. What do you tink about that?
Joshua Bardwell the perception that you're getting something "really" special for the retail they are drawing or of them. ...n a pissing contest win once in a while...
I really like when you do reviews like this. Ups my game on motor technology. I hope you do more reviews on other motors worth their cost, like the F40III 2400kv motors! :)
I think there is possibly a down side to the open bottoms i have had a couple of arms break for really no reason i think it's the missing stress relief the from the normal disc bottom these were on 4MM Geprc LSX5 arms with deadpool R5s on long grass from clipping gates iv'e never had an arm break like it before they didn't snap clean just bent up at about 15 degrees you could see the carbon lifted into the gap between the little screw arms I have now ordered the Merica frame designed with open motors.
Josh, thanks. Excellent review. Have you done a propeller review video for normal, average folks and a motor (either by type or size)/propeller combination review for the same folks? Saw your best lower cost motor video which was great. Not sure if or maybe I should have pinned this to that video. Thanks.
Hello, Hey Joshua. I just finished a build with hypetrain motors v1, and as the build progressed with the setup. one motor started to get loud. after the first flight the bearing noise was even louder. i have had 2 soft flights, no crashes. now that motor, #3 is so loud, its ungodly loud. i have bought a v1.1 to replace the motor with. i dont know if anyone else is having issues with any Rotor Riot motors, they all use the same bearing.
They're quite sparsely wound but you cant argue with the efficiency numbers, Im guessing the gains come from going up in motor size & the prop/current being effectively used as less relative load. I would be interested to see how a 9T wind (2,200kv-ish) with a vastly increased copper fill would work out. Easy to do with the open stator too.....
Skin effect would also make stranded better than single core windings as they have a higher surface area for a given Cross sectional area. This is why speaker cables are normally Multistrand.
I dont care too much about the g/w ratio. The more thrust the motor makes, the more inefficient it is. To be able compare the numbers, they should all be measured at the exact same thrust, hovering time or distance flown. Any thoughts on that jb
+Hrr Pippi hover time and distance flown depend on way too many factors to be consistent. Comparing at the same thrust is easy for two or three motors but if you have a huge data set what thrust value do you choose? One motor may max out at 1100 grams while another motor makes 1100 grams at 60% throttle. Should we presume that the pilot won't use the rest of the throttle for the bigger motor? Miniquadtestbench.com has full charts and graphs for every motor in the motor explorer. You can compare thrust vs amps for the entire throttle range.
Joshua Bardwell i think you are right. But comparing a freestyle motor making 1100g vs a racing motor pushing past 1600g isn't exactly fair in my opinion. Comparison made out of the numbers from miniquad could give a more correct value. And how much of the time does a motor go 100% anyway
That's a good question. I read several arguments against and for. Should we lubricate the bearings with proper light drone bearing lube? Some say it pushes out good factory lube. To me it seems like you should because none of these drone motors come with sealed bearings. Lubrication seems like a must to keep them good and lubed. Not over lubed but a proper drip or two every 20 flights. Anyone have any opinions on there experience?
Hi @Joshua Bardwell, lovely review. However one thing I cannot find anywhere is; what is the bell diameter for this motor? Do you mind checking with your own set? I'm looking to pick these up but want to make sure my frame has clearance.
Beautiful motor and nicely wound, indeed. But with stranded wires, you reduce the skin effect much more efficiently than with a very thin (7 µm??) silver layer. Much more interesting would be a high temperature enamel coating on the wires and high temperature nd grade magnets (e.g. UH or even Shin Etsu high temp grain boundary diffusion) to make them more robust. By the way, which maximum temperature has the powder coating base insulation on the laminated stator core?
Ok, i´m with you. I´m not a 25$ motor guy, and i don´t want to go over all the results in those tests so, Which one do you recommend for freestyle and some quick passes? thanks!
Do add locktight to the Oomph motors bell screw through. Had one that was missing for who knows how long. Of course realized this after a crash. Other than that excellent motor.
Joshua Bardwell, have you tried liftoff lately? It started off kind of bad but it is awesome with the latest updates. They added this motor to the latest update. I would love to see a video review of this sim from you now that the flight characteristics are based off betaflight.
Anyway of doing a video on fixing vtx pigtails... I have a drak and the cable to vtx is coming loose from the clip... was wondering on a effective way or fixing this without replacing
currently I have a bunch of Tattu 1550mha 75C batteries. I'm running rs2205 2300kv red bottoms with Q25a ESCs on my LX5. Will these batteries be able to handle these hypetrain motors with 30a littlebee-s escs? Great video thanks.
An alternative I would like to see you compare these to are the Tatuu motors. They look like they are made by the same oem (T Motor) but have multi strand windings, their pants on, and 1 mm stator height. Oh yeah, they are $25 cheaper.
I just bought some to try. Yes they look so cool with those clean looking windings and that 3 spoke design. Can't find any info on max amps? Anyone know. Thanks for the tech lesson on these motors
But why does it conduct pulsed electricity at a high frequency better? Should it not be better to have many thin strands, because the thinner the higher the ratio between circumference and cross section area?
Omgwtflmaololrotfl lol I used to be a $7 motor guy. But once I tried some more expensive motors and some LDPower 2305 2300kv motors I haven't even looked at another set of racerstar motors lol
BadWallaby I hear you. But I have discovered 5050 v3 cyclones. And those 7$ racerstar motors are better than my Cobras.... Recon the day I have burnt through them all I will get some decent motors for now and all my crashes they fit the bill. Hope you have a great day it's spring day today!!! Winter is gone happy days ahead!!!
The 4g is also on the rotating side of the motor so that is 4g to start and stop not only is it at the end of the arm its also rotating mass ...that is a huge deal!
I put these motors on a remix running 4s and betaflight 3.5. I'm sure the quad is a bit heavy. My usual dal T5040C props just don't get enough grip in the corners requiring an abnormal amount of roll/throttle to arrest the slide. What would be a good prop to try with this for freestyle?
16x19 came from the RC airplane and helicopter stuff.. pretty much every motor that size (and even bigger as well) uses that pattern. They just do... not for any specific reason really, but it's been that way for 10+ years and no one really saw the need to change it on an airplane. On a quad there may be a reason, but not really on planes and helis.
Do these motors generate excessive voltage spikes during snap rolls by chance? I just maidened a quad that flys great, but akk x2 vtx and Swift 2 seem to power cycle only after a snap roll. I lose video for 2 seconds, then it returns but very contrasty and dark. I've got Cicada 30A ESCs and everything wired through the CLRacing F4S v1.2. Maybe a cap on each esc?
I don't notice that about the motors. I would suggest powering the vTX and camera from vBat instead of the on board regulator. I know this is counterintuitive but it totally avoids issues like you are having, and the video is usually just fine (if not PERFECT).
Hey Joshua, please help! I just installed a RunCam split in my Wizard X220. After I was done, I connected a battery, armed and gave it a little throttle, so the quad and the controller were working. The next morning I went to the field to fly and I could not get the quad to arm. When I got home I checked the receiver and made sure it was connected properly and it was. When I connected it to Betaflight and went to the receiver tab, there were no values or colored bars and most of the channels were gone. I change the receiver out with a quad that I flew that same day, I got the same results in Betaflight. I have no idea whats not working and how to fix it, can you help?
Thanks for answering Joshua, and thank you for taking the time out of your day to help. I didn't think about it being the configurator, but after your suggestion, I connected my other quad that I flew today and everything was normal in betaflight (colored bars and all the channels past AUX 3 were there) I did inspect the uart port and one of the corners is cracked but the connection seams solid. Someone else said that I might have to factory reset the FC. Ehat do you think? I am using a turnigy i6C receiver and a turnigy evolution transmitter if that helps.
I flew open base motors- multistar mini monsters 2150kv for the first year of flying quads and had plenty of crashes. Had the SAME 4 motors and actually sold them to someone else eventually. Open bottom technology from forever ago and never changed motors! Now that KV is slow nowadays but not the point lol
I wish I could get motors this cheap the UK, I'm new to the game so perhaps I'm not finding the right places but how people build an entire quad for $200 blows my mind the kiss fc and frame would pass £200 from what I'm finding, great review Joshua always very detailed and helpful
Joshua Bardwell very true, I think I'll stick to my 2 inch for as long as I can to build something that won't be superseded, I'm learning as much as I can very happy to have found this great hobby just hope the new laws coming to the UK don't ruin it for us hobbyists too much
If you are already paying stupid amounts for international shipping then I'd say buy more motors rather than fewer. Normally I buy five motors in a set and often I still have the 5th one un-touched when I move on to another copter or put a different set of motors on the build. But as a YT'er, I'm not exactly normal in that way. If I were in your position with international shipping, I would probably think hard about how likely I am to destroy a motor, and see if I could pony up to 6, to have 2 spares. If I had all the money in the world, I would buy 8, and then if 2 months from now I hadn't destroyed one, I'd just put the other set on a different quad. One nice thing to do is to fly your spares! If you break one, you just take a motor off the quad you like less and put it on the quad you like more.
Those are some sexy looking motors to be fair. If and when they are in stock in the uk, I may treat myself. Only one at a time though. It won't sting as much that way!
just cooked a hype train doing my last LOS flight before dialing in my PIDs. Landed in asphalt parking lot that had some loose sand (or slightly larger) and saw it rotate back through the prop. A second later, motor 1's prop stops. Fire spits out the bottom of the motor and I start hearing a clicking sound. Motor is cooked. Wondering if having such an open top is a good thing?
Maybe you'd like a T-Motor F40III better. It has a completely closed top. But most motors have an open top and I'm not sure you can really blame the HypeTrain's design on this one. It sounds like you just got really unlucky.
we're just looking at it wrong. I was super lucky! that tiny little piece of dirt picked my motor to jump into and stop it dead in its "tracks" (do i get a chuckle?) The screw holding the bell on is nice. What actually burns up in the motor when it is stopped? Can it be fixed? Or do I have a pretty paper weight?
Joshua, i have a question, so you know how after you leave your lipos unused for a few days and they start feeling like old/overcycled batteries, does that ever go away or do i just have to buy new batteries now?
let me elaborate. Sometime i dont have time to fly and i have my lipos fully charged just sitting there, so 2 or 3 days later i go to fly and when im in the air the power delivery dosent seem the same, theres less punch. any idea about that?
No, no. I know what you are implying. The phenomenon you're describing, where they seem to have less punch after 2 days of being charge. I'm not aware of any such thing. I don't think it exists. If you leave your batteries fully charged for a month, you will see some reduction in capacity and possibly C rate. But 2 or 3 days? No way you can possibly really notice a difference. I think you're imagining it. No offense.
You should check. I know there were some that went out without loc-tite but I don't know if that is just one batch or it's ongoing. There was a note on the product page about it. If you don't loc-tite them they WILL back out and then getting a replacement is a PITA because it's a really unusual size.
Ryan says that the magnets are "a little bit weaker" than usual, with a bit more winding on the stator, which increased efficiency at the cost of a little less power. So presumably the magnets are not N52, but I don't know what they are. Neither the stator lamination.
GREAT REVIEW JOSHUA!!!!!!!!!!!!! EXTREMELY COMPREHENSIVE!!!!!! A+++++++++++++++++++++++++ SOUNDS LIKE ROTOR RIOT DID A FANTASTIC JOB, AND DID THEIR RESEARCH EXTREMELY WELL!!!!!!! *YOU ARE A MAJOR ASSET TO THE RACING QUAD COMMUNITY* (NOT FOR JUST RACERS) BTW:) WE ALL THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ~SINCERELY~ J.J.
13:06 WRONG PROP. That is the original V1s, not the the OG 5x4x3GF prop you are referring to. That OG 5x4x3 is 3 over to the right from the V1s. The original V1s prop is a horrible prop in all metrics except efficiency IMO.
It looks pretty. loving the screw in the bottom of motor f that c clip thing lost sooo many love your video ooo and btw my propwash issue was a crappy battery strap. Thanks
Any thoughts on using blheli_32? after your review, I ordered a set of Hypetrains, but not sure what ESC's to run with them. Thinking about Tattu 35A _s or betaflight blheli_32's. Do you have an opinion?
Domikian Glueck racestar ones from HK.and a graphine that isn't puffed and charges fine but sags to 9v as soon as I take off.still fly the puffed ones because I can't afford to replace them but it's only a matter of time before there is a catastrophic failure lol
Richard Clark no not user error, I've been doing this since 2008 so know what I'm doing. It's just that these lipo have had a hell of a lot of cycles through them so I've had my money's worth out of them. Can't complain really but not looking forward to the expense of replacements.
So how can I make a drone fly for at least 20 minutes? I don't need my drone to be a racer, freestyle is more fun to me with the focus on efficiency and the option to really punch the throttle... Is that even possible to have 20 minutes airtime with a freestyle drone?
It depends on your definition of freestyle, but generally the kind of performance you want on a freestyle drone, you will not be able to get 20 minutes of flight time. Or if you do build a drone that can fly for 20 minutes, you won't actually get 20 minutes of flight unless you are doing boring cruising and not very aggressive flight.
I wouldn't use KISS with Betaflight because there are small hassles and kinks with updating the firmware and so forth. KISS will work fine I just prefer BLHeli. Spedix ESCs are some of the best on the market in terms of both performance and reliability, and they're not a bad price either. Unfortunately I can't find any international distributors for them, so you might end up paying a premium for shipping if you're not in the U.S. Also, the Spedix BLHeli_32 ESC doesn't have a telemetry pad (I think--verify this) so I would pick some other choice if you were dying for BLHeli_32.
Joshua Bardwell: Now we know which side of the fence you're on JB. Lol! 😊 I thought with the pass through feature it wasn't hard to program the KISS stuff. Either way we got the guy an answer. 👍🏼
The Skin effect really does not come into play until you hit the MHz region and then only just. 100's MHz or GHz then it would be noticeable. The silver is just for looks. It is not a practical conductor given it oxidises easily but then these wires will be enamel coated.
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Would you consider doing a video on motor maintenance? Bearing lubrication, cleaning, etc? Forgive me if you already have a video of this, I couldn't find it.
I haven't done it because to be honest I don't really maintain my motors. I mean, if they get a little dirty I blow them out with air but other than that, not really.
Joshua Bardwell cool, I just didn't know if it's something everyone is doing and I'm just really ignorant. Thanks for the info!
For the most part canned air will get them clean. I got a bunch of mud in mine so I grabbed a can of motor cleaner at the local hobby shop. Just spray till it runs clear and then blast it with air to dry off and put a couple drops of oil on the bearings. That was for one muddy crash. Other than that I haven't had motors last long enough to know if they are too dirty yet :D
Innov8tive Designs - Cobra US importer - (Lucian Miller)
Has a series of motor videos. Here's the oiling one:
th-cam.com/video/dRYdArrKMVI/w-d-xo.html
@@JoshuaBardwell Just saw in another of your videos where you were reviewing 2600 or 2700kv motors which "ripped" and were very smooth at the beginning (and also smoked your pack and got pretty hot), but developed bearing issues/noise very rapidly. Also you showed some white smoke in your flight video without visible damage to the motor. I can tell you the probable reason, it has to do with maintenance, but also thinking in more simple mechanical terms.
What happened IMO (it has happened to me in a larger - thermally challenged - RC helicopter quite a lot) is that the motors got hot enough to liquefy the bearing grease. When this happens (usually when heat is applied, i.e. load during use), the liquid - we call it oil in this state ;) - gets flung out of the bearing and distributed everywhere in the vicinity. When oil hits a hot metal part, it will start to evaporate/fry off if there is enough heat. This usually happens as you slow down from prolonged load, not at WOT. Reason being, the motor stores the heat being produced during load, as it needs a bit of time to conduct the heat from inside the stator to the surface, but when it slows down, it has much less cooling available (proportional to RPM). So the heat builds up and can get excessively high very quickly even though you think you're letting it cool. Keep up a bit of rpm even while trying to keep load low after prolonged high loads.
So the smoke might be this, but the bearing issues are almost definitely related to bearing grease liquefying and exiting the bearings, which then take damage if the lubricant is not replaced. So either replacing the bearing grease or using some higher-temperature-resistant lubricant will help if you can't get rid of the heat otherwise (heat exchanger on the heli, just a large aluminium heatsink bolted to the base plate).
Of course, weight is not as much of an issue on a heli ^^ on a race/freestyle quad you're probably better off changing your setup or taking care of your motors.
the new rotor riot motor specially designed for vlogging!
teamSAF bmx Seriously? I can't find a place for it on my canon 80D...
Bwhahahahahaha!
then I'm getting it
They are not known as C clips... they are "Jesus" clips... as in "Jesus, where did that go!" :D
or even "Jesus I almost lost and eye"
I knew them as "damnit"s
The "AH-SHIT" clip!!!
lol
I know this is from 3 months ago, but I gotta say...
It's also because if the clip comes off mid flight, you're going to meet jesus!
JB would you say it is a motor with its 'sarong lifted' rather than 'pants down'?
i would say, put your pants down for harambe.
yeah, and spot the giggle edit when he said dont like things touching your bell?
How does skin effect work with enameled windings?
Are these windings silver coated copper then enamelled with silver coloured enamel... or more likely, just silver coloured enamel?
I fly the Motor since release, have the V1 and i love this motor
*URGENT*
will I be able to mount this to a 16 / 19 mm frame?
Thank you Josh... I've been trying to educate folks on the importance of weight in the motors by comparing to the ages old automobile racers' concepts of "unsprung weight" vs "sprung weight". VERY important with FFF and acro flight.
Good review Josh, as usual :-) . I was happy to see you using the metric system, I'm a happy Canadian! I do like the no-bottom motor design. I'm looking forward to see how it's design will fair after some abuse.
Continue the awesome work!!
I have really switched over to metric a lot since going into RC. Millimeters especially are far superior for casual use compared to 8th's and 16th's. Way easier to imagine a cm and then divide it by 10 compared to fractions of an inch.
Joshua Bardwell you US guys with your inches amaze me. Having such complicated system. It looks way harder than metric which is logical and easy. All world should be metric...
yeah, quadcopters are in the sweet spot between where imperial isn't precise enough and machinist language takes over because decimals start to get annoying
I love the sight of tightly wound stators in the morning!!
Motor looks like it should be easy to clean, without taking it apart. Important when you live in an iron rich environment.
"absolutely wonderful propwash handling" dude, what a motor! sounds like magic...
Are you big fan of lubing the shaft?
Just started watching Bardwell videos. Learned SOOOO much and my flying is starting to kick ass!! Thanks and keep up the vids!!!!!!
also, not all grams are equal. saving 1 gram on the spinning bell of the motor is much more important than saving 5 grams on the non spinning base.
Ordered my set yesterday.. my emax RB's on my freestyle quad are getting a bit tired these should be a great upgrade. Thanks for the review Josh.
Its because when the hobby started it started by using airplane motors and they use 16x19. After that it just stuck until now that mini quads are a standalone market
but why did the airplane motors have that pattern?
oragamihawk fuselage's are longer than they are tall.
Drakin FPV
The Motor FIREWAL usually has more strength and Leverage by not allowing it to be perfectly Square.
It also fit the basic shape of the airplanes fuselage.
All you have to do is look at a set of (Nitro Motor Mounts) like I use to use back in the Good Old O.S. MAX Days:)
My gf named our dog Douglas J Barkwell, because i went through a 2 week period where i watched nothing but your videos. lol Keep up the good work.
The real advantage of the 16X16 mounting pattern is the tiny weight savings. Less metal = less weight. I can't imagine any other advantage. Same as the spokes on the top besides the similarities to the RR emblem. If we are SO worried about the additional 3 grams on the outside of the COG, I'd argue a 4 in 1 esc outweighs most all disadvantages.
I do think the "not having to flip over your arm after you installed it wrong by accident" is nice. Your point about the 4-in-1 is a good one. On the one hand, nit-picking about weight is kind of pointless. But on the other hand, the only way to really save weight on most of these builds is via cumulative nit-picking.
For me the price is the real downside.
Especially for international orders. $25 each + crazy martian shipping + probably customs taxes = not so hype train.
Thanks for the nice review Joshua and happy flying!
It's a normal price for T-Motor. I expected more than that.
Same here. This will probably be around $200 a set with shipping and taxes....@not so hype train
audiogek good night 200$ !?!?
achron24 Yeah, Just did the calculation. $180. Europe is a b!tch to live in
This price seems to be normal for higher end motors. Also I hope that other manufacturers will adapt this technology so it will be available in my country, because shipping from RR to Europe is ridiculous.
Price is what you pay, value is what you get. They look sweet to me!
I love that they named them Hype Train motors. I WANT these motors, but I don't think I need them with a bunch of Armattan oomphs on my quads. They look so damn pretty, though.
As always mate, great review with a shit ton of info.
Let's face it, this is not a cheap hobby/sport and everyone has their own budget, but I don't think $25 is a bad price for a motor that performs and is clean in it's power usage. After cheeping out on motors/ESC's and having VTX's static have lines and/or die from voltage spikes, all my current quads are full KISS now, so $25 for a component is not out of the norm. I might just try these for my next build and see how they go against the Lumenier 2206 2350 I am loving at the moment. Like most people, I have learned the expensive way. Now I buy once and cry once rather than buy many times and cry multiple times.
Cheers
I bet nobody with open bottom motors has had a screw touch a winding yet :)
BadWallaby I had never thought of that. I put some new motors on mine (not these, ones with really thick bottoms) and I could not tell if it was touching. Come to think of it, I still don't.
BadWallaby yeah but I bet they have had a tree branch poke and short the windings. Ask me how I know;)
Drone Punk FPV have you actually had that happen? (Not being sarcastic or rude, actually serious) I wonder if you could take like a plastic motor guard or something.
That's not true for me at least. Yeah you can see the screw coming through but I still managed to accidentally miss where one was just barely contacting a winding.
Fuzzwad yes had that happen!
On my first batch of the EFAW2407's
I can show you the picture of the motor. Just my bad luck I guess.
I guess I hit a cedar tree just right.
I actually backed into it somehow!
They are great motors otherwise.
I did order 5 of these new RR motors to try out.
Hey Josh, regarding the novelty of open bottom motors; I built my first (pre multi wii era) quad about 9 years ago using 4 cheapo "Bell motors" as we used to call them. Totally agree that every gram saved on the frame extremities is worth it- may allow lower D term.
they do look really nice...a huge point for the high end guys. I look forward to the time when price is not a factor in my builds!
Great review...Unless there's a hunk of crap in the bell, cleaning is a PITA. Even replacing the bell cost isn't likely justified. Just swap out with a new one. Quads are consumables.
hi Joshua! Have you ever tried reversed motors? I'm just testing such setup and foud out, that there are at least two huge advantages - the camera stays allways clean and there are much less chanses to get stuck in the grass or between other obsacles. What do you tink about that?
At 48KHz skin depth for copper is around 0.3mm, much more than the thickness of the silver plating.
Thanks. That's good info. So what's the point of the silver plating then? Just looks?
Joshua Bardwell the perception that you're getting something "really" special for the retail they are drawing or of them. ...n a pissing contest win once in a while...
I think that's why Diatone did it with their motors. For the hype
I really like when you do reviews like this. Ups my game on motor technology. I hope you do more reviews on other motors worth their cost, like the F40III 2400kv motors! :)
Those are damn good motors.
Another great vid JB. Thoughts on measuring units being standardised?
I think there is possibly a down side to the open bottoms i have had a couple of arms break for really no reason i think it's the missing stress relief the from the normal disc bottom these were on 4MM Geprc LSX5 arms with deadpool R5s on long grass from clipping gates iv'e never had an arm break like it before they didn't snap clean just bent up at about 15 degrees you could see the carbon lifted into the gap between the little screw arms I have now ordered the Merica frame designed with open motors.
Josh, thanks. Excellent review. Have you done a propeller review video for normal, average folks and a motor (either by type or size)/propeller combination review for the same folks? Saw your best lower cost motor video which was great. Not sure if or maybe I should have pinned this to that video. Thanks.
Hello, Hey Joshua. I just finished a build with hypetrain motors v1, and as the build progressed with the setup. one motor started to get loud. after the first flight the bearing noise was even louder. i have had 2 soft flights, no crashes. now that motor, #3 is so loud, its ungodly loud. i have bought a v1.1 to replace the motor with. i dont know if anyone else is having issues with any Rotor Riot motors, they all use the same bearing.
They're quite sparsely wound but you cant argue with the efficiency numbers, Im guessing the gains come from going up in motor size & the prop/current being effectively used as less relative load. I would be interested to see how a 9T wind (2,200kv-ish) with a vastly increased copper fill would work out. Easy to do with the open stator too.....
I thought the 19x16 mount holes are to spread out the stress on the carbon/bottom plate from continuously being yanked by motor rotation.
Skin effect would also make stranded better than single core windings as they have a higher surface area for a given Cross sectional area.
This is why speaker cables are normally Multistrand.
Stephen Gibb each strand of motor wire is insulated whereas speaker wires are not.
I dont care too much about the g/w ratio. The more thrust the motor makes, the more inefficient it is. To be able compare the numbers, they should all be measured at the exact same thrust, hovering time or distance flown.
Any thoughts on that jb
+Hrr Pippi hover time and distance flown depend on way too many factors to be consistent. Comparing at the same thrust is easy for two or three motors but if you have a huge data set what thrust value do you choose? One motor may max out at 1100 grams while another motor makes 1100 grams at 60% throttle. Should we presume that the pilot won't use the rest of the throttle for the bigger motor?
Miniquadtestbench.com has full charts and graphs for every motor in the motor explorer. You can compare thrust vs amps for the entire throttle range.
Joshua Bardwell i think you are right. But comparing a freestyle motor making 1100g vs a racing motor pushing past 1600g isn't exactly fair in my opinion.
Comparison made out of the numbers from miniquad could give a more correct value. And how much of the time does a motor go 100% anyway
That's a good question. I read several arguments against and for. Should we lubricate the bearings with proper light drone bearing lube? Some say it pushes out good factory lube. To me it seems like you should because none of these drone motors come with sealed bearings. Lubrication seems like a must to keep them good and lubed. Not over lubed but a proper drip or two every 20 flights. Anyone have any opinions on there experience?
Hi @Joshua Bardwell, lovely review. However one thing I cannot find anywhere is; what is the bell diameter for this motor?
Do you mind checking with your own set?
I'm looking to pick these up but want to make sure my frame has clearance.
28mm
Joshua Bardwell thank you!!
I went with T-motor pro 2 2400kv after researching them. They do everything well. These hypetrain remind me a lot of T-motor design
Hype train are OEM by tmotor.
Joshua Bardwell no wonder they look so close. Good to know. Could I ask if you lube your motor bearings?
Wow that thing looks like fantastic quality! Doesn't look too expensive at all!
Im still rocking EMAX RS2205 motors(currently 13.99 a motor), bound to DAL Cyclone T5045's. Its gonna take a real magical motor to make me swap!
10:06
What's the problem with low profile nuts?
I use them to save weight, and they are just as tight as full sized nuts.
Beautiful motor and nicely wound, indeed. But with stranded wires, you reduce the skin effect much more efficiently than with a very thin (7 µm??) silver layer. Much more interesting would be a high temperature enamel coating on the wires and high temperature nd grade magnets (e.g. UH or even Shin Etsu high temp grain boundary diffusion) to make them more robust. By the way, which maximum temperature has the powder coating base insulation on the laminated stator core?
i read somewhere the silver wires was something to do with hand winding?
Ok, i´m with you. I´m not a 25$ motor guy, and i don´t want to go over all the results in those tests so, Which one do you recommend for freestyle and some quick passes? thanks!
DYS makes high quality motors for the price, and brother hobby tornados are awesome if you can shop around and get a good deal on them
You can't go past a set of Armattan Oomph motors either. Very affordable and great motors.
Armattan Oomph at $20 is fine.
Do add locktight to the Oomph motors bell screw through. Had one that was missing for who knows how long. Of course realized this after a crash. Other than that excellent motor.
When you get 4 oomphs it's even a little less than 20 each. Joshua, have you tried the velvets yet?
the pwm frequency only increases the the resolution and the smoothness of the voltages. instead the rotational speed determines the skin effect.
Do you have an opinion on the Thrust 2206 2450kv motors? You should do a price train review of all the 25$ and up motors. Nice vid
Joshua Bardwell, have you tried liftoff lately? It started off kind of bad but it is awesome with the latest updates. They added this motor to the latest update. I would love to see a video review of this sim from you now that the flight characteristics are based off betaflight.
Yes, it's much better now. I like it a lot.
That face @ 1:18 ^^
Those motors are definitely beautiful.
Anyway of doing a video on fixing vtx pigtails... I have a drak and the cable to vtx is coming loose from the clip... was wondering on a effective way or fixing this without replacing
currently I have a bunch of Tattu 1550mha 75C batteries. I'm running rs2205 2300kv red bottoms with Q25a ESCs on my LX5. Will these batteries be able to handle these hypetrain motors with 30a littlebee-s escs? Great video thanks.
6:00 but motor weight is at one of thrust points. Reason to have lighter motors is to reduce spinning weight.
An alternative I would like to see you compare these to are the Tatuu motors. They look like they are made by the same oem (T Motor) but have multi strand windings, their pants on, and 1 mm stator height. Oh yeah, they are $25 cheaper.
I just bought some to try. Yes they look so cool with those clean looking windings and that 3 spoke design. Can't find any info on max amps? Anyone know. Thanks for the tech lesson on these motors
Thanks for the earnest review! I hope to begin a build when I finish my current project... Good info!
I see that it is harder to manufacture and there has to be a reason for that, but please explain why single strand is better.
But why does it conduct pulsed electricity at a high frequency better?
Should it not be better to have many thin strands, because the thinner the higher the ratio between circumference and cross section area?
This is insulated wire. With multi strand you get more insulation and less copper.
thanks
The skin depth in the kilohertz range is so small, almost all the current transfers through the silver and thus has less resistance.
I want to be a $25 a motor guy! Sadly my Wallet is a $11 a motor Wallet :(
BadWallaby lol I'm a 7$ motor guy...
Omgwtflmaololrotfl lol I used to be a $7 motor guy. But once I tried some more expensive motors and some LDPower 2305 2300kv motors I haven't even looked at another set of racerstar motors lol
my $7 motors give me a 5-6 minute flight time on 1500mah batteries. $7 motors are great! Unless you want to go fast but hey, you can't have it all :D
BadWallaby I hear you. But I have discovered 5050 v3 cyclones. And those 7$ racerstar motors are better than my Cobras.... Recon the day I have burnt through them all I will get some decent motors for now and all my crashes they fit the bill. Hope you have a great day it's spring day today!!! Winter is gone happy days ahead!!!
I got a set of four 2205s for $21 au . But i got a set of 5s ocdays for 50bux . Can't wait for those suckers to get here .
The 4g is also on the rotating side of the motor so that is 4g to start and stop not only is it at the end of the arm its also rotating mass ...that is a huge deal!
What kind of fly time are y'all getting outta these?
I put these motors on a remix running 4s and betaflight 3.5. I'm sure the quad is a bit heavy. My usual dal T5040C props just don't get enough grip in the corners requiring an abnormal amount of roll/throttle to arrest the slide. What would be a good prop to try with this for freestyle?
16x19 came from the RC airplane and helicopter stuff.. pretty much every motor that size (and even bigger as well) uses that pattern. They just do... not for any specific reason really, but it's been that way for 10+ years and no one really saw the need to change it on an airplane. On a quad there may be a reason, but not really on planes and helis.
Do these motors generate excessive voltage spikes during snap rolls by chance? I just maidened a quad that flys great, but akk x2 vtx and Swift 2 seem to power cycle only after a snap roll. I lose video for 2 seconds, then it returns but very contrasty and dark. I've got Cicada 30A ESCs and everything wired through the CLRacing F4S v1.2. Maybe a cap on each esc?
I don't notice that about the motors. I would suggest powering the vTX and camera from vBat instead of the on board regulator. I know this is counterintuitive but it totally avoids issues like you are having, and the video is usually just fine (if not PERFECT).
Joshua Bardwell I'll give it a shot! I really appreciate your thoughts! Thank you!
Hey Joshua could u make a video on what u were before knew about this hobby
Hey Joshua, please help! I just installed a RunCam split in my Wizard X220. After I was done, I connected a battery, armed and gave it a little throttle, so the quad and the controller were working. The next morning I went to the field to fly and I could not get the quad to arm. When I got home I checked the receiver and made sure it was connected properly and it was. When I connected it to Betaflight and went to the receiver tab, there were no values or colored bars and most of the channels were gone. I change the receiver out with a quad that I flew that same day, I got the same results in Betaflight. I have no idea whats not working and how to fix it, can you help?
Breton Woodford Sounds like a dead UART, but I’m no expert
If the colored bars are completely gone and the channesl have changed then I suspect something has gone wonky with the configurator.
Thanks for answering Joshua, and thank you for taking the time out of your day to help. I didn't think about it being the configurator, but after your suggestion, I connected my other quad that I flew today and everything was normal in betaflight (colored bars and all the channels past AUX 3 were there) I did inspect the uart port and one of the corners is cracked but the connection seams solid. Someone else said that I might have to factory reset the FC. Ehat do you think?
I am using a turnigy i6C receiver and a turnigy evolution transmitter if that helps.
I flew open base motors- multistar mini monsters 2150kv for the first year of flying quads and had plenty of crashes. Had the SAME 4 motors and actually sold them to someone else eventually. Open bottom technology from forever ago and never changed motors! Now that KV is slow nowadays but not the point lol
I wish I could get motors this cheap the UK, I'm new to the game so perhaps I'm not finding the right places but how people build an entire quad for $200 blows my mind the kiss fc and frame would pass £200 from what I'm finding, great review Joshua always very detailed and helpful
Kiss is very expensive. People building a $200 quad aren't using kiss or hypetrain.
Joshua Bardwell very true, I think I'll stick to my 2 inch for as long as I can to build something that won't be superseded, I'm learning as much as I can very happy to have found this great hobby just hope the new laws coming to the UK don't ruin it for us hobbyists too much
How many spare motors should a begginer-ish buy? That's a lot of money.. especially with crazy international shipping.
If you are already paying stupid amounts for international shipping then I'd say buy more motors rather than fewer. Normally I buy five motors in a set and often I still have the 5th one un-touched when I move on to another copter or put a different set of motors on the build. But as a YT'er, I'm not exactly normal in that way. If I were in your position with international shipping, I would probably think hard about how likely I am to destroy a motor, and see if I could pony up to 6, to have 2 spares. If I had all the money in the world, I would buy 8, and then if 2 months from now I hadn't destroyed one, I'd just put the other set on a different quad. One nice thing to do is to fly your spares! If you break one, you just take a motor off the quad you like less and put it on the quad you like more.
Those are some sexy looking motors to be fair. If and when they are in stock in the uk, I may treat myself. Only one at a time though. It won't sting as much that way!
just cooked a hype train doing my last LOS flight before dialing in my PIDs. Landed in asphalt parking lot that had some loose sand (or slightly larger) and saw it rotate back through the prop. A second later, motor 1's prop stops. Fire spits out the bottom of the motor and I start hearing a clicking sound. Motor is cooked. Wondering if having such an open top is a good thing?
Maybe you'd like a T-Motor F40III better. It has a completely closed top. But most motors have an open top and I'm not sure you can really blame the HypeTrain's design on this one. It sounds like you just got really unlucky.
we're just looking at it wrong. I was super lucky! that tiny little piece of dirt picked my motor to jump into and stop it dead in its "tracks" (do i get a chuckle?) The screw holding the bell on is nice. What actually burns up in the motor when it is stopped? Can it be fixed? Or do I have a pretty paper weight?
Hi Joshua. What would you say, which motor is better for freestyle on a Chameleon. A T-Motor F40III or a T-Motor F60III? Thanks!
Joshua, i have a question, so you know how after you leave your lipos unused for a few days and they start feeling like old/overcycled batteries, does that ever go away or do i just have to buy new batteries now?
I don't know what you're talking about.
let me elaborate. Sometime i dont have time to fly and i have my lipos fully charged just sitting there, so 2 or 3 days later i go to fly and when im in the air the power delivery dosent seem the same, theres less punch. any idea about that?
No, no. I know what you are implying. The phenomenon you're describing, where they seem to have less punch after 2 days of being charge. I'm not aware of any such thing. I don't think it exists.
If you leave your batteries fully charged for a month, you will see some reduction in capacity and possibly C rate. But 2 or 3 days? No way you can possibly really notice a difference. I think you're imagining it. No offense.
Joshua Bardwell none taken, thanks for the second opinion 😉
Hey Josh, I've got five of these hype babies on their way, I'll let ya know what I think after I thrash em a while.....
JB, do you mean the rifle bottom screws arnt lock tight-ed? I just received those rifles, if its true, i'll need to lock tight em
You should check. I know there were some that went out without loc-tite but I don't know if that is just one batch or it's ongoing. There was a note on the product page about it. If you don't loc-tite them they WILL back out and then getting a replacement is a PITA because it's a really unusual size.
Joshua Bardwell Thanks for the heads up. I'll have them checked. I got those motors along with your parallel charging board, neat design!
Hey JB did u happen to here if there will replacement parts for this motor? Bells, magnets, bearings etc....
I haven't heard anything about that.
Joshua Bardwell I hope they do...that would suck to have to buy a new motor over a slightly bent bell or something.
Hi nice video just want to with the graph in theory you can work out the top speed of your quad useing the weight of your quad yer
Nice video 😉 What is better between 2300kv and 2600kv in 4s, for the same motor ??
th-cam.com/video/cdzE_IGONto/w-d-xo.html
Wait r they called the hype train or the hyper trains?
Quite a beautiful motor... Those windings! Just ordered some oomph velvets though to replace my F60pro/2500.
Joshua any information on what magnets were used as well as stator laminations.
Ryan says that the magnets are "a little bit weaker" than usual, with a bit more winding on the stator, which increased efficiency at the cost of a little less power. So presumably the magnets are not N52, but I don't know what they are. Neither the stator lamination.
GREAT REVIEW JOSHUA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EXTREMELY COMPREHENSIVE!!!!!!
A+++++++++++++++++++++++++
SOUNDS LIKE ROTOR RIOT DID A FANTASTIC JOB, AND DID THEIR RESEARCH EXTREMELY WELL!!!!!!!
*YOU ARE A MAJOR ASSET TO THE RACING QUAD COMMUNITY*
(NOT FOR JUST RACERS) BTW:)
WE ALL THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
~SINCERELY~
J.J.
When you say the Rotor Riot guys, who do you mean? Who designed these?
You can ask Chad Kapper if he wants to share.
Then it's Steele.
Steele's no longer in RotorRiot
It was mainly Tommy from following them all on social media. All the guys tried them out, but Tommy seemed like the one actually doing the work.
Chad Nowak, Tommy and myself
What happened to LD POWER motors?
Can't wait to see a 6s lower KV Hyptrain?
I'm running hypetrain 2207/2450kv on 6s no problem and freaking love it...the power is outstanding
What would be the go to rip ya face motor do u recamend plz
@7:53, do you have Tmotor F40 V3 2750kv motor review coming soon?
Sort of. It's on a quad I was sent.
I found Josh's daisy desktop background to be just delightful.
As do I.
13:06 WRONG PROP. That is the original V1s, not the the OG 5x4x3GF prop you are referring to. That OG 5x4x3 is 3 over to the right from the V1s. The original V1s prop is a horrible prop in all metrics except efficiency IMO.
Hey Joshua I found a set of these brand new for sale at a MultiGP event today! I think they deserve a new frame- any suggestions? Great vid btw!
A great freestyle frame? Chameleon, right?
can the hype train motors be compared to the DYS Mars or DYS Thor motors?
Miniquadtestbench would be the place to go for this.
It looks pretty. loving the screw in the bottom of motor f that c clip thing lost sooo many love your video ooo and btw my propwash issue was a crappy battery strap. Thanks
Thoughts on this against the Hyperlite 2307 2522kV??
It seems likely that the 2307 would be more powerful and more amp-hungry, as well as heavier. But only the bench results will tell for sure.
Just looking at the windings you see pure quality
Josh, What esc's are you using with that motor?
FPV Model Quadrant X25.
blheli_32?
No. _S.
Any thoughts on using blheli_32? after your review, I ordered a set of Hypetrains, but not sure what ESC's to run with them. Thinking about Tattu 35A _s or betaflight blheli_32's. Do you have an opinion?
+Dean Naguib if you run blheli 32 make sure to set PWM frequency to 48 kHz.
Speaking of puffed lipo. I have 13 4s lipo and 11 of them are puffed :0(
mrmurder75 Which ones?
Domikian Glueck racestar ones from HK.and a graphine that isn't puffed and charges fine but sags to 9v as soon as I take off.still fly the puffed ones because I can't afford to replace them but it's only a matter of time before there is a catastrophic failure lol
sounds like user error to me - that's unheard of without abuse of batteries
Richard Clark no not user error, I've been doing this since 2008 so know what I'm doing. It's just that these lipo have had a hell of a lot of cycles through them so I've had my money's worth out of them. Can't complain really but not looking forward to the expense of replacements.
Richard Clark So would you suggest paying more for a Lipo? 33$ instead of 20$?
Thanks for this Josh! So informative!
So how can I make a drone fly for at least 20 minutes?
I don't need my drone to be a racer, freestyle is more fun to me with the focus on efficiency and the option to really punch the throttle...
Is that even possible to have 20 minutes airtime with a freestyle drone?
It depends on your definition of freestyle, but generally the kind of performance you want on a freestyle drone, you will not be able to get 20 minutes of flight time. Or if you do build a drone that can fly for 20 minutes, you won't actually get 20 minutes of flight unless you are doing boring cruising and not very aggressive flight.
@@JoshuaBardwell so what is the maximum flight time you've seen or know what could be possible.
Josh I just purchased 4 of these motors for my talon what esc s would you recommend
frankieg bangems I'm not Josh I know but really recommend Kiss 24a ESC's. You will not be let down and can use betaflight or kiss firmware
I wouldn't use KISS with Betaflight because there are small hassles and kinks with updating the firmware and so forth. KISS will work fine I just prefer BLHeli. Spedix ESCs are some of the best on the market in terms of both performance and reliability, and they're not a bad price either. Unfortunately I can't find any international distributors for them, so you might end up paying a premium for shipping if you're not in the U.S. Also, the Spedix BLHeli_32 ESC doesn't have a telemetry pad (I think--verify this) so I would pick some other choice if you were dying for BLHeli_32.
Joshua Bardwell: Now we know which side of the fence you're on JB. Lol! 😊 I thought with the pass through feature it wasn't hard to program the KISS stuff. Either way we got the guy an answer. 👍🏼
Joshua Bardwell
Any tips on what website sells them i live in Texas
The Skin effect really does not come into play until you hit the MHz region and then only just. 100's MHz or GHz then it would be noticeable. The silver is just for looks. It is not a practical conductor given it oxidises easily but then these wires will be enamel coated.