You must know that noise reduction systems were used in the studios when making the actual recordings, both on the multitracks and the 2 track mastering machines. So, chances are, you're not hearing the amount of hiss you would normally if those systems hadn't been used. Dolby A was by far the most popular, but DBX Type I was extremely popular as well.
The Super D has some noticable noise breathing, but undoubtely better with it on :) The High-Com also has it, but it seems much more subtle (could be the lower compression ratio?) My favorite is actually the ADRES. Never heard about that one before. Fantastic comparison
Thanks WIlliam. Indeed, the lower compression ratio and different filtering and emphasis systems will most likely have resulted in the slightly better result with HighCOM II. Toshiba A.D.R.E.S. works great, and it's also one of my favourites for recording cassettes. AD-5 units are quite rare, but AD-4 (that were released later) are easier to find. I can highly recommend one.
Very fascinating! Thanks for posting this! I had no idea about the Toshiba or the Sanyo systems! I'm really impressed by the Toshiba as it's nearly as good as the DBX! You might be interested to know that DBX TYPE I was the go to noise reduction system for Vangelis' multitrack machine at his Nemo Studio back in the 70's and 80's. He used Dolby A when mixing down to the 2 track master, but DBX TYPE I units were used on his 24 track Lyrec TR-532. Very interesting indeed. If it's good enough for Vangelis, it's good enough for me!
Very interesting comparison, thank you! It would have been helpful to hear the original recordings, though, in order to know how noisy they were originally.
Nice comparisons. But you do need to look into the wow and flutter of that deck, it is even audible with headphones on! The CD1 should be able to do a lot better!
Did anyone noticed different readings of VU between deck and high com? I mean, I have 4 decks and all of them showing different values of VU of the same recording. What kinda jungle is it?
Very good video! I have a Toshiba-Aurex PC-X88AD with adres, (that can be used as stand alone unit) and it is excellent.. Better than Dolby. Also I have also a Teac AN-180 Dolby) , I have to test it better, but it seems very very good
Thanks Roberto. I also own a Teac AN-180. I have recapped it and re-calibrated it about 6 months ago, and yes, they are very good, even if only Dolby B. Next to this, I have a JVC NR-50 in collection with Super A.N.R.S., Telcom C4, Telefunken HighCom, DBX150 Type I, etc... Fun stuff to experiment with. If you want to check out Telcom C4, check my latest video on Type I tape. I used a Telcom C4 unit in combination with a bottom of the range Type 1 tape, to investigate what level of quality you can obtain. this is the link : th-cam.com/video/YGHdExnsG14/w-d-xo.html
@@ralphlauwaert2245 wow! Telcom C4 should be the best! I will look to your video for sure, thanks!!!! I tested the an 180 just today for the first time, I found it some years ago but never used.. Did you recap it entirely? Thanks Congratulations for your wonderful devices! 🆒🔝
I received a frequency response printout for my Technics RS-M233X (short head with an oval cutout, there is also a normal long head with a square cutout in the tread on this model, I had 2) from a guarantee workshop. Without NR +/- 2dB, with dbx +/- 4dB. - was below 1KHz, + was above 1KHz.
DBX in itself has no influence on the frequency spectrum (as in : it does not introduce a + or - difference, the encoder/decoder has a flat frequency response from 20hz to 20kHz)). However, if your deck has a frequency response without DBX of +/-2dB, than enabling DBX will double that to +/-4dB, because the encoder/decoder system of DBX works on a ratio of 2:1:2. in short : any shortcoming in your deck will be "doubled" by the DBX system.
Hm.. They all cheat, just removing everything above 9-15kHz (and compress everything below of course). I wonder are there any digital companders that use ADC/DSP/multiplying DAC as a VCA? I don't need a compatibility with other decks, I just need no unpleasant hiss. Traditional companders are too slow with their band pass/hp/lp filters. A signal is already gone at a moment the filters output some voltage for VCA
"removing everything above 9-15kHz " , are you sure about that?I've done measurements on virtually every noise reduction system there is for Reel-to-reel and cassette, and never observed this. If you want the best available system, use Dolby SR (it works on cassette too! just keep the recording levels conservative), Dolby S, or Nakamichi HighCom II, or , in my opinion the best one for cassette : Toshiba ADRES. I know Pioneer did some single-ended NR system on some of their decks. But for the best performance, get an outboard NR system. DBX II units are well available, and also do a really good job. Only on very high transients, they might be (just a very little) sluggish
I love normal tape-noise. It identifies the time we listened to analog music.
You must know that noise reduction systems were used in the studios when making the actual recordings, both on the multitracks and the 2 track mastering machines. So, chances are, you're not hearing the amount of hiss you would normally if those systems hadn't been used. Dolby A was by far the most popular, but DBX Type I was extremely popular as well.
The Super D has some noticable noise breathing, but undoubtely better with it on :) The High-Com also has it, but it seems much more subtle (could be the lower compression ratio?)
My favorite is actually the ADRES. Never heard about that one before.
Fantastic comparison
Thanks WIlliam. Indeed, the lower compression ratio and different filtering and emphasis systems will most likely have resulted in the slightly better result with HighCOM II. Toshiba A.D.R.E.S. works great, and it's also one of my favourites for recording cassettes. AD-5 units are quite rare, but AD-4 (that were released later) are easier to find. I can highly recommend one.
I think I liked the Sanyo Super D. It's hard to tell though through pc desktop speakers..
The adres kills the high frequenties. Sounds stable but moufled.
Very fascinating! Thanks for posting this! I had no idea about the Toshiba or the Sanyo systems! I'm really impressed by the Toshiba as it's nearly as good as the DBX! You might be interested to know that DBX TYPE I was the go to noise reduction system for Vangelis' multitrack machine at his Nemo Studio back in the 70's and 80's. He used Dolby A when mixing down to the 2 track master, but DBX TYPE I units were used on his 24 track Lyrec TR-532. Very interesting indeed. If it's good enough for Vangelis, it's good enough for me!
Pretty instructive and very interesting.
Very interesting!! I will have a close listen to this later.
I think dbx sounds very good, ADRES very close, HighCom good, Sanyo not so much.
Very interesting comparison, thank you! It would have been helpful to hear the original recordings, though, in order to know how noisy they were originally.
Thanks ! At the end of the video you can hear the recording without any noise reduction.
Nice comparisons. But you do need to look into the wow and flutter of that deck, it is even audible with headphones on! The CD1 should be able to do a lot better!
The Nakamichi and DBX for sure. Less audible processing, and sounds more natural.
What a discovery! Let's see)
Did anyone noticed different readings of VU between deck and high com? I mean, I have 4 decks and all of them showing different values of VU of the same recording. What kinda jungle is it?
Very good video! I have a Toshiba-Aurex PC-X88AD with adres, (that can be used as stand alone unit) and it is excellent.. Better than Dolby. Also I have also a Teac AN-180 Dolby) , I have to test it better, but it seems very very good
Thanks Roberto. I also own a Teac AN-180. I have recapped it and re-calibrated it about 6 months ago, and yes, they are very good, even if only Dolby B. Next to this, I have a JVC NR-50 in collection with Super A.N.R.S., Telcom C4, Telefunken HighCom, DBX150 Type I, etc... Fun stuff to experiment with. If you want to check out Telcom C4, check my latest video on Type I tape. I used a Telcom C4 unit in combination with a bottom of the range Type 1 tape, to investigate what level of quality you can obtain. this is the link : th-cam.com/video/YGHdExnsG14/w-d-xo.html
@@ralphlauwaert2245 wow! Telcom C4 should be the best! I will look to your video for sure, thanks!!!!
I tested the an 180 just today for the first time, I found it some years ago but never used.. Did you recap it entirely? Thanks
Congratulations for your wonderful devices! 🆒🔝
I received a frequency response printout for my Technics RS-M233X (short head with an oval cutout, there is also a normal long head with a square cutout in the tread on this model, I had 2) from a guarantee workshop. Without NR +/- 2dB, with dbx +/- 4dB. - was below 1KHz, + was above 1KHz.
DBX in itself has no influence on the frequency spectrum (as in : it does not introduce a + or - difference, the encoder/decoder has a flat frequency response from 20hz to 20kHz)). However, if your deck has a frequency response without DBX of +/-2dB, than enabling DBX will double that to +/-4dB, because the encoder/decoder system of DBX works on a ratio of 2:1:2. in short : any shortcoming in your deck will be "doubled" by the DBX system.
hi Ralph, I own a kx1200 Yamaha with dbx, is it dbx I or II ? can't find any info about it. I read that dbx I is only for professional audio ?
That deck has dbx ii. Indeed, dbx 1 is for professional applications such as high speed reel to reel machines.
Maybe, combine them all for the very best results?
No1 Aurex AD5..
Indeed... Aurex AD5 is superb!
.. Did you use Test tapes that where original or re manufactured copies i wouldn't buy a dolby as test tapes are rare
I use Hans-Peter Roth test tapes.
Sanyo 5+
Hm.. They all cheat, just removing everything above 9-15kHz (and compress everything below of course). I wonder are there any digital companders that use ADC/DSP/multiplying DAC as a VCA? I don't need a compatibility with other decks, I just need no unpleasant hiss. Traditional companders are too slow with their band pass/hp/lp filters. A signal is already gone at a moment the filters output some voltage for VCA
"removing everything above 9-15kHz " , are you sure about that?I've done measurements on virtually every noise reduction system there is for Reel-to-reel and cassette, and never observed this. If you want the best available system, use Dolby SR (it works on cassette too! just keep the recording levels conservative), Dolby S, or Nakamichi HighCom II, or , in my opinion the best one for cassette : Toshiba ADRES. I know Pioneer did some single-ended NR system on some of their decks. But for the best performance, get an outboard NR system. DBX II units are well available, and also do a really good job. Only on very high transients, they might be (just a very little) sluggish
It's simple, just use digital recording if you want 'no noise'. And you can get super high frequency response too! 😉
Sanyo is better.
Toshiba A.D.R.E.S. …!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!