Great reaction! I love this episode but the "something a male presenting Time Lord would never understand" line annoys me, the Doctor was literally a woman a couple of hours ago so he knows exactly what it's like to be a woman and isn't going to forget that experience because he regenerated
Yeah, this line is my biggest issue with this episode (which I like overall). It's not just that the Doctor was a woman a few minutes ago, it's also that why would letting things go be something specifically a *male presenting* Time Lord would never understand? I don't think it's meant to be, but it really does just end up sexist, putting down one group for the purpose of raising another up. Leave it as just "something a Time Lord would never understand" and it's a lot better, though obviously the Doctor has let things go before, so it's still not perfect.
@@calebfairchild1830 because they said letting go is something a male presenting time lord would never understand Eleven and Twelve both did exactly that
The moment I truly felt Murray Gold was back was when “I Am the Doctor” played. I couldn’t care if it wasn’t for the Eleventh Doctor because who knows if Matt’s ever coming back? It’s not called The Eleventh Doctor’s Theme, it’s I Am THE DOCTOR. Any Doctor. It’s just so good to have it back.
Oh my god it’s the stair boost! I will always say how much I *loved* that Karl Collins came back. I didn’t even remember Shaun had *lines* during The End of Time (he did, but not much), so to be able to flesh him out here after serving as what felt like a symbol more than a character, that’s juicy stuff. And the characterization of an easygoing supportive dad willing to go along with anything, especially related to Doctor shenanigans? PERFECTION.
I had the pleasure of watching this live in Chicago, at a Doctor Who convention with the Director Rachel Talalay in the audience, as it was first airing/streaming. Rachel confirmed that the explanatory intro was tacked on at the request of Disney - and was a surprising last-minute thing she wasn't aware of. Apparently, the bits with Donna at the kitchen table were from outtakes/alternate takes of other scenes. You can tell the 14th Doctor is calmer and more contemplative than the 10th Doctor. The scene with him sitting down, working out information with the sonic screwdriver screen is something that the 10th Doctor would never do - he'd run around manically talking to whomever, a million miles a second. I disagree that the Doctor was the first UNIT scientific advisor. You might recall, from Spearhead from Space, that Liz Shaw was hired as UNIT's first scientific advisor, before the 3rd Doctor shows up. Ruth Madeley, who plays UNIT's current scientific advisor in this story, also played a companion of 6th Doctor in Big Finish, also a wheelchair user. Beep the Meep has appeared in a number of Big Finish audio adventures, including a story with the 6th Doctor, called "The Ratings War."
Technically the second doctor was helping unit when they first appeared with the cyber man. But I guess technically Liz would be the first official one.
@@modboyhenry1 Just in case, I double-checked the transcript of that eight part episode (the one hosted on "Chrissie's Transcripts" website) for the following search terms: "science" "hired" "scientific" and "advisor" and nothing relevant came up, so I guess the Doctor wasn't formally attached to UNIT until Spearhead from Space.
@hamzareacts The official mini comic that takes place between The Star Beast & Wild Blue Yonder is called “Squid Squad” and you can find it on TH-cam if you search “Cloister Room Squid Squad.”
So much for the 12th Doctors line: “we’re billions of years beyond your petty human obsession with gender and its associated stereotypes” - nice one RTD, now I owe Chibs an apology
@@BaronMartin I don't think the scoreboard for bad sentences is just one. But this is a specific case where people might have been insulting Chibnall for being "Too Woke" only to have RTD basically shit on the Doctor and make Chibnall look good by comparison.
@@mrcritical6751 he totally did! That pissed me off too… I’m starting to think that a bunch of middle aged white dudes aren’t the best candidates for making edgy comments about gender…
lol this whole thread of comments is great, all my thoughts during the ep. Which sucks because I didn't hate the ep, just the over-performative cringe execution of inclusivity. Like, for me, the kitchen scene with Donna and her mom was the perfect delivery of the concept, But then the 'male-presenting you don't understand' shit made my brain stop working for a minute lmao. Especially because I instantly thought of the line you just quoted when I first watched it.
Just thought I would say Beep the Meep is actually from an old comic that inspired this episode. It's actually a sort of adaptation of the Star beast comic. There are some differences one of which being in the comic it was the fourth doctor.
What makes it more ironic is that the person saying it is supposed to be someone who has transitioned from male to female, so when Donna is attacking the Doctor for not being a woman anymore, it comes across as 'anti-trans'. RTD really shot himself in the foot.
Felt like an insult to be honest. "You don't get it because you're a cis-white-male" kind of comment. Never mind that the Doctor is thousands of years old and has already literally been a woman.
I'm so grateful that David & Catherine came back as Ncuti simply couldn't commit enough time for the 60th while finishing Sex Education S3, being required for any reshoots on Barbie & Who knows the exact Covid protocols at the time which would have been tighter than today, isolation/bubbles etc
I love this episode it made me fall in love with doctor who all over again. Glad you enjoyed it. I particularly liked all of Roses toy aliens from past stories i would love it if they came out as actual toys. Can't wait for the next video
Glad you enjoyed. Me too. Loved it. Like you, I think it still works as a first episode, but you are right about not getting the deeper context too. Its always a funny thing and hard to view something away from what you know or have seen and if it would work to someone who hadn't that knowledge and like you say it definitely would and you'd get the idea and context. Its just you get much more when having gone through the bigger journey too.
funny you said Meep is like how out harry potter Prof Sprout voices the meep, this episode is also taken from the comic with the same name, im pretty sure its a 4th Doctor comic
The opening sequence is literally there for new viewers who are unaware of the Doctor/Donna story to give them some background before the story starts.....it is a bit of a weird opening, but it gets that out of the way, so there doesn't have to be a big info-dump in the main story. I loved the way Sylvia has changed- she now fiercely defends and protects her daughter. So different from her attitude when we first meet the family! My favourite moment is the 'Tuna madras' moment, where evryone is frozen mid chaos....and Sylvia is desperatey trying to keep things 'normal'.
Two questions: 1.) When you rewatched Series 4, what did you think of Simm's Master in The End of Time? 2.) What day is the Wild Blue Yonder Reaction coming out?
One thing I really appreciated about this episode is that Donna wasn’t actually a very nice person before she met the doctor which is what makes her memory wipe in journeys end so Tragic. I looks like getting married to a supportive husband, having a child and probably her mum finally treating her better (all along with the subconscious doctor Donna ticking away) helped her get back some of that growth she lost, even though she doesn’t have all her memories.
I just love how the house is full of apples. Bet, Sylvia placed them there, an apple a day keeps the Doctor away... Glad you enjoyed the episode. There surely were some great scenes in there, just a little bit too much cramped into it for my taste.
My theory on why the sonic can do what it does is because the tardis was broken/rebuilding on which case the majority of its dimensional engineering gets transferred to the sonic until the tardis is rebuilt, letting the sonic do things it can’t normally do (doesn’t explain why it’s never happened before…maybe 13 tinkered with it)
Its a very fun ep... not perfect by any means... the end reason of Donna and Rose letting go is cheesy... i think a better explanation was right there... cos the Metacrisis was split between the two, it was easier to get rid of and not as dangerous, also they cud have played the human angle as well... they cud have made an excuse that the Doctor at the time of journeys end didn't think of letting go as an option (technically that's what caused the meta crisis 😂 he didn't want to regenerate) and Donna at that time didn't want to be herself again... but this time she's more happy in her life... and content...so letting go of this makes sense.. ah well it is what it is... im glad she is alive 😂 I knew about the meep cos of the comics... but i still enjoyed the turn.. and the practical and cgi effects were just perfect for the meep.. A lot of scenes were cut so it does feel choppy at times...and that beginning bit was a last minute addition i think for new viewers ... but it was so cheesy 😂 Love 14, love Donna... and sylvia stole the show "he doesn't exist" 😂 shaun and Rose are lovely too...first proper trans character in the story... RTD described it as a family blockbuster... and it delivered... was a joy ride... Oh and it was funny to see your reaction to the money... knowing what Donna was gonna say later 😂
When it came to the 13th Doctor's episodes. I was maybe 60/40. This stuff, I'm closer to 40-60. The stuff I like: I like. The stuff I don't like: I really hate.
@@HamzaReactz Tactics meant to target your enemy's state of mind. Basically, he's saying that this is like political brainwashing. It's not entirely wrong to say so, either. It's still not "literally" a psyop, though.
Ugh, I had almost forgotten that a recipe for 'Tuna Madras' exists in the world. It's even worse when you find out what Russell T. Davis' family recipe for it is...
"The Star Beast" is based on the 1979 Dr. Who marvel comic book which is the same story but features The Fourth Doctor (Tom Baker) instead of The Fourteenth Doctor (David Tennant) and the characters Sharon and Fudge instead of Donna Noble and Rose Noble who were school students another difference to the comic that wasn't used in the episode was the wrath warriors kidnapped The Fourth Doctor to their ship for split second to have him operated on to have a bomb placed in his body as a tracker to track down Beep The Meep also in the comic Beep The Meep was said to be "male" but in the episode Beep was neither male or female but was voiced by actress Miriram Margoyles who is best known to the younger generation as Professor Promona Sprout from the Harry Potter franchise. There has also been an audio version of "The Star Beast" with Tom Baker voicing The Fourth Doctor. The first Doctor Who on a bigger Disney budget but i'm old fashioned i prefer the lower budget tin foil and bubble wrap monsters personally i do however love the new TARDIS set it feels as you said "spacey" but feels like Classic Who but on a much bigger budget i'm glad to have the round things back but the music around that scene felt very disney-esk and abit too cringe i still like the TV Movie Eighth Doctor's TARDIS as that one was a house. As nice as it was seeing Donna again i didn't like her ending from Series 4 being undone because now we re-watch that series without any emotional impact i was hoping she would either be a "past" Donna or an "alternative" Donna with effecting her ending but not the case and the way it was done was very silly it also urks me when they try to make the companions super powerful gods which was one the reasons i was glad they got back to normal companions during the Jodie Whittaker era. Although i still don't like the idea of David Tennant being the Fourteenth Doctor he wasn't as bad or as cringe as i thought he would be but i still don't like the idea of an actor whose already been the Doctor as a "new" incarnation because it's not really new or original. I also don't like the new title sequence because it's Murray Gold and sounds the same and not progressive and just feels bland however i'm glad to see the old diamond logo back.
The first scientific advisor was Liz Shaw in Spearhead from Space. The Doctor didn’t become scientific advisor until after Liz was hired. He wasn’t the advisor in The Invasion.
I have a lot of mixed feelings about this episode. There's a lot in it that I love but a lot that I have an issue with (although mostly minor stuff). I feel like the Doctor is just super lax on trying to stop Donna remembering him, and I don't like him just straight up looking at her and saying "this is a sonic screwdriver" and similar stuff. The whole "let it go" thing just feels very rushed and unsatisfying. One awesome thing is that this is an adaptation of a comic from 1980 with the Fourth Doctor. Big Finish also adapted it into an audio and this episode loosely follows the plot of it, although expands on and changes a lot to the point where it's basically its own thing, and I think it does a great job of introducing the new era. The tone is great and I remember loving it on first watch (although my opinion has gone down as time goes on. I like it overall but its flaws leave it as probably my least favourite of the three specials). Also that TARDIS! I love the Doctor running around like a little kid, and seeing behind the scenes of the interior shows how amazing the set is. Now, into the Wild Blue Yonder!
A lovely reaction to an episode I can't help but love in spite of a couple of issues I have with it. The trouble with David Tennant and Catherine Tate is that you just want more of them. Even if they'd done a full season instead of a few specials, it still wouldn't be enough.
That was fast, I thought you were taking a few days off. 🙂. I wasn’t wild about this episode. It felt clunky. There were good bits and not so great bits. I thought the “letting go” to fix things was rushed and weird. I kinda wish the “letting go” had been foreshadowed. I think the convo between Sylvia and Donna would have been a great place (maybe Sylvia talking about how difficult it is to let go of the dreams she had for a grandson, and Donna quipping that there is a lot of power in letting go. ). At least then that last bit where Donna and Rose insulted the doctor and “fixed” things wouldn’t have felt like RTD pulled the solution out of his behind. A little tweaking and it would have been fine but overall this felt more like a fanfiction “fix-it” than a strong ep. Donna, after that initial series 4 ending, deserved better. I found most of the 60th not great, with some good bits (one exception but I won’t spoil). This episode I thought was crap, with a few good bits (to paraphrase your review of the sea devils episode). Glad you liked it.
Could you imagine if 10th & Donna had an adventure where they encounter a Weeping Angel & Rose ends up creating a Weeping Angel toy? I keep thinking of Meap from Phineas & Ferb whenever the Meep is shown, the Wrarth Warriors as Kamen Riders, & Fudge (who tf calls their child Fudge?) as Timmy Turner I personally like this episode on the 1st watch though it's kind of when I rewatch or see other people's reaction & discussions to this episode where I realise it wasn't a good episode but more of a alright episode, like a 6/10. I remember there were times I felt the episode felt like it focused more on the Doctor & Donna reuniting rather than the story itself. Many times I felt baffled on why the Doctor is explaining stuff to Donna like the sonic screwdriver scene instead of either not or brushing it off since the Doctor is literally the one who states if Donna remembers she will die. Meep being the villain I could see it from a far. Like many others, I didn't quite like the gender aspect the episode had a focus on & many in your comments have already voiced out why. I absolutely love the scene at 11:22, you could just feel the emotion the Doctor had been holding back ever since losing his best friend & the realisation that in order for the world to be saved he would have to sacrifice Donna, someone he just reunited with again after a long time. I still hope the list of words (Westerly, Pelican, Dreams, etc.) the Doctor says does have meaning. I thought each word would refer to an adventure the Doctor & Donna had so each word triggers a memory of an adventure tied to that word but it doesn't seem to be. It's also nice to see the change in Sylvia from S4
The intro definitely could have been done better but i get the reason behind it with the specials being the only thing on Disney+ with no previous context.
I’ve never been too keen on the idea of David Tennant coming back as a future incarnation and all the emotional consequences of Series 4 getting undone icel
This is the second best of the three I would say. Wild blue yonder is the best, and the Giggle is the weakest Imo. I would not really consider this a jumping on point tbh. As you said at the end, I would consider the church on ruby road to be the true jumping on point. If Power of the Doctor was the final of new who and church is the start of Disney Who/new new who, the three specials are like the bridge between the two, similar to how the 8th doctor movie is the bridge between classic who and new who.
Like no time has passed! And the quality of writing is such step up from the clunky dialogue of the 13th Doctor era. Such a pity, I’d love RTD to write for Graham and 13!
So, as a trans-woman, I appriciate the representation with Rose. However, I have problems with it too. - The Pronouns Scene: If Rose had mentioned Pronouns before hand with the Meep, it would've felt more natural to me. A small nitpick compared to the next thing... - "Male Presenting Time Lord" comment: No. This shouldn't have been there. It was completely unneeded and sends the wrong msg. It also slightly undermines Jodies Doctor, putting her Doctor down to her gender. I think that was unintentional tho. - More of a nitpick than anything, but I think having the Metacrisis resolved by "letting it go" felt cheap and easy. They could've had the specials explore how to save Donna and Rose from the Metacrisis. With the Doctor being older, it would've made sense foe a solution to occur in the Giggle after the encounter with the villain. These are my main negatives about this story, and my thoughts on it. Glad you enjoyed it!
Exactly. There wasn't a need anyway to the "let it go" shtick, because Donna passing it on to her child changed the rules anyway, so this could have just been a solution to the Doctordonna problem.
I agree with each of those points but I don't think that RTD was unintentionally sending the wrong message rather he was more concerned about sending a specific message and not caring about the implications. The ending was super clunky, the dialogue felt like it was ripped from twitter (binary binary binary... non-binary. Neither, and both, and more. That shit made me laugh. It was so stupid.) and it basically insulted both the current doctor to his face and undermined everything that the previous doctor represented. Not bad for someone who has a whole team at his disposal.
Instead of doing the whole "did you just assume its pronouns" which literally sounds like it's mocking trans people and trans allies they could just had her *jokingly* ask "oh so you just assume it's a he?" which would feel more natural and still get the point across. Just really weird writing.
I'll be honest I was massively disappointed when this came out. It's another story where there's a lot of plot contrivances, not enough time to explore everything, I think the whole ending is cringe and for me kind of ruined the really authentic character development up until that point. It also relies on 'We're dangling a carrot infront of you' mystery but there's like... no pay off? The practical effects for Beep are fab. The scene with Sylvia and Donna is great. Shaun is hilarious and the MVP. But otherwise it's just such a mid episode for a 60th for me. Not very special. Also the last line? "It can take us anywhere in time and space!"... isn't that the entire purpose of the TARDIS in the first place. Just such a dumb line that just made me laugh for the wrong reasons.
when the doctor said "it killed me Donna" and followed it with four counts of "it killed me" The four counts of that represent him dying and becoming 11, then 12, then 13, then 14. Four deaths.
"The boss" is coming in one of the new series, by the way, so be prepared to see who it is my friend 😁 there are loads of theories but hope it is going to be good
I’ve heard that intro was done in the way it was because they initially wanted Wilf to do it but he died before they could film anymore scenes with him. He also sadly died before he could do a scene with Yasmin Finney, Yasmin spoke about him being the best onscreen grandfather she ever had, so I think there was a scene where they interacted that would have been done in the script read through but never made it to air
13:35 "What is going on" is a subdued reaction. My wife's reaction to that scene was: "Oh fuck this stupid show." (She has a high tolerance for bullshit but she's written Doctor Who off completely at this point. Won't even watch the old stuff anymore.) When Rose went "Non-binary" and "Neither. And Both. And more" my whole friend group laughed and we knew they were trying WAY too hard with that bollocks.
Yeah i'm sorry the cold open looks like a character select screen in a video game, not a fan of that... but overall a fun episode! And this episode loosely adapts a 1980 DWM Fourth Doctor comic strip called The Star Beast!
@@Doctor_What63 Exactly! I do think that was something Disney specifically asked for since that opening is not in the script, the episode was scripted to open with the shot of London and the TARDIS arriving.
@@friendlyotaku9525 The episode was meant to be for Disney to get convinced to pick up the series later, the director is known to be able to stretch budgets and make a cheap set look good with it, likely RTD put that in himself because there was nowhere else for it, since Jodie's TARDIS had been dismantled by that point which is where it would take place.
This episode was not actually made with the famous "Disney Dollars." The Star Beast episode needed to look expensive as this is the episode that was pitched to Disney. Rachel Tallaly is known for stretching a budget and making things look expensive without the money for it, which is why she was asked to direct this one. I'm sure some Disney dollars were used for post production CGI shots, but the majority of this was done on the cheap.
This is the weakest of the 3 for me, but it's still very much enjoyable. The "male-presenting Time Lord would never understand" line is complete garbage and I think I'm yet to see anyone genuinely try to defend it. It's not even "woke". By a fairly typical definition of "woke", a lot of people would probably call me woke and I think it's a stupid line. It's sexist and makes zero sense.
Thank you for pointing out that it isn't even "woke". I think RTD really did a bad job with this line - after he did a great one with the scene with Rose's classmates and the talk between Donna and her mother about her feeling clumsy.
See. This is a line created by a guy who isn't a part of the queer community thinking he's scoring brownie points with the queer viewers and folks who think that "one-upping the cis-man" is some sort of victory. That makes him pretty woke. That's how a lot of people see that term. It's not about being progressive, it's about scoring points. Or to put it another way; virtue-signalling. Sadly. That line likely did more harm than good. It gives the wrong people the kind of ammunition that they can use and justifies some prejudiced views they might have. If the message had been about acceptance and tolerance: It would have been fine.
@@Unethical.FandubsGamesAs out of touch as RTD clearly is with younger queer people, he is gay himself. He literally created Queer as Folk which was a huge thing for gay rep on TV in the late 90s, and almost all of his work has centred around queer characters. I actually think being part of the "queer community" himself is what made him feel like he could write this stuff without actually consulting any trans people.
@@Unethical.FandubsGames Sorry, I disagree. You might want to double check RTD's bio, definitely part of the queer community. It's okay to dislike the line because it's badly written, as many agree. Speculating about his motives is something I won't do. And anyway imo the line isn't about queerness. It's old-fashioned men vs women, but rephrased because it wouldn't work to call the doctor a man. Well, it doesn't work anyway so...
I think people hang too much on the male presenting Time Lord line given it's just Donna taking the piss out of her friend (though I don't love the line, either)
This episode was a flop and a half. Aside from the nostalgia factor of seeing Tennant and Tate again… the episode is mid at best. It’s not horrendous but it didn’t live up to the enormous hype. It’s like the Doctor wants to kill Donna, handing her the sonic screwdriver and making those dumb forcefields etc. Series 4 is my favourite series personally, so seeing how that storyline is bastardised at the end here with Donna and Rose just letting it go along with a sexist ‘joke’ is a huge shame, to the point I’d rather have left things where they were because I loved the brutal ending of series 4. Or I’d rather we’d kept the Doctor Donna for a bit since passing it on to Rose slows the harmful effects. RTD tries hard but just doesn’t get it, Rose is a Trans woman, that’s different to non-binary… and binary gender has shit all to do with Donna saying ‘binary’ at the end of series 4. That ‘male presenting’ joke has potentially harmful effects on male presenting trans people who have transitioned from female to male - good job RTD, if you wanna virtue signal, fact check yourself, do some research first.
Yep. That ending sent all the wrong messages and all for the sake of appearing woke. It's funny when people just wanna be accepted and RTD writes THAT into a show and includes a "you're a male presenting time lord". Well done, RTD. That really doesn't help the queer folk.
I thought this one was alright. Not amazing. Just alright. Not a fan of the intro, but I expect that was probably a Disney request. The main plot is a bit meh. Your standard 'evil beings aren't actually evil and someone you don't suspect is' plot. Kind of like Demons of the Punjab, but this was nowhere near as effective. It was nice to see Donna again, even if the whole 'she will die if she remembers' stuff was waved away a little too easily. It does hurt her original ending quite a bit for me, which is a shame. Completely agree with you that the idea anyone would give all of their lottery money away is a bit silly.
I enjoyed this for the most part but definitely found the messages a bit ham-fisted (and I say this as a queer person). The male-presenting line was ridiculous and I've seen women and "woke gen z" blamed for it when it was literally written by a middle aged man who's trying too hard 💀 Hopefully less of that when the new season starts. I thought the effects were pretty good and the meep's a fun villain. Just a fun story in general. Interested to see what you make of the bext episode.
"when it was literally written by a middle aged man who's trying too hard " Pretty much what people mean by being "woke". That said. RTD might have done more harm than good for the trans community with the closing of this episode. It felt like the dialogue was written by Twitter: The kind who constantly rant about "cis" this and "cis" that. Or about how "representation" is super important. As someone who is not a straight man and whose friends include some pretty queer folks, too, none of us liked that ending. Some of us even stopped watching altogether afterwards. It wasn't appreciated by many that the Doctor was basically being insulted to his face by people who should understand him better than most.
Mixed feelings. But generally mostly positive. What i hate is after the Davros retcon interview Shirley is created. Just to create badass one. Id just rather they just created Shirley and not change Davros. And 2nd issue is Rose. Too heavy handed and her gender is central to the resolution not just a part of her character. But enjoyable episode, great acting and the Meep is adorable. I just which the bug aliens got more. Love Slyvia in this one. This one is based on a 4th doctor comic strip apparently
I liked Shirley, but my only problem with her is that she is portrayed as almost a 'Mary Sue'. UNIT couldn't afford a ramp but they could afford a rocket wheelchair? 😂
I really like the episode.. But... the ending... it just.. so rushed.. everything is magically restored.. Donna's condition is cured so easily.. it undermine the ending of Donna in season 4. Rose is such a great character but she is reduced to "the trans one" ant it's really sad because I love the actress. (Why the deadname, why this beautifull speech about the Doctor being more than one gender if just after that they make a joke about the Doctor doesn't understanding something because he is not a girl) What is sad is that I see the good attention behind all of that.. but this not well made.. I don't know what happen with all of that.. The ending undermind a really good episode. Because if I ignore all of that I love it. Donna's return is so cool, see how her and her family evolve. The 14th Doctor personnally is so cool ! The Meep is such a good antagoniste. It's a shame... 😔
The handling of Rose in this episode will actually hurt sentiment about trans characters more than help. It's really sad because it is just a token trans character that spouted the kind of nonsense lines you would have expected from a twitter troll.
It was nice to see The Doctor and Donna back. They were my favourite male and female duo. You can tell that The 14th Doctor here is much different to 10th Doctor like that part where he rage because he has to sacrifice Donna to save the earth. He never does anything like that. 10 always try to stay calm and just gets upset and keeps his rage bottle in.
This episode is pretty good, but it’s definitely the more family friendly sort of goofy one of the three. I think they really fucked up the messages in this episode because they had a great opportunity with making rose a trans character but did silly things like ask the evil aliens pronouns (which wasn’t that bad on its own tbf but felt a tiny bit unnatural) and make the meta crisis solution a pretty weird attempt at a political statement that made no sense considering the doctor had essentially just gone through a gender transition and been a woman like a couple hours prior. It’s still a great episode but it opened up wounds for like weird attacks on the show and didn’t make the progressive stuff feel as cool and natural as it did with things like captain Jack
Still annoys me that the 60th anniversary of the show is just RTD celebrating series 4. Im sure these specials are great if you like the Tenth Doctor but if you dont care about him its a slog
Sorry, but really? Only celebrating series 4? We have one of the most favourites Doctors ever and one of the best companions ever back. We have an adaptation of a classic comic book story, the return of a villain who wasn't in show for nearly 60 years, return of a classic companion (Mel), tons of references and easter eggs. I think it celebrates Doctor Who in a great way. Come on, it's just 60th anniversary. It's not 50th or 100th, just 60th, some shows don't even celebrate a 10 years period. Why should every anniversary special be full of cameos?
Not gonna say too much to avoid spoiling things that happen in the following episodes. I would say that the weird thing in the beginning where The Doctor explains what happens in Season 4 is necessary only really for the casual fans who haven't seen that story line in 15 years and barely remember it. I also think that all the clunky dialogue and lines with Rose and her being trans make it clear there probably wasn't anyone trans in the writing room to advise on that. I think RTD meant well but just didn't stick the landing. I do like this episode but I do think it is the worst of these specials. And I don't mean that as a sleight against this episode but as a praising of the next two.
The recap part is also there for new fans :D Don't forget that this is the first episode of DW on Disney+, so for many people, it's the first episode of the show they ever saw.
@@BaronMartin True. But given how much this relies on old story lines, more so than the beginning of NewWho, I think more people who are interested in getting into Doctor Who would start with Rose.
Take away the sexist attack against a man who just saved London, and a pronoun lecture by a trans *child* this episode was so disappointing. Average at best. For an anniversary special, it's underwhelming...
Yes, it was a woke too far.... a great story ruined by a number of one liners designed to tick current boxes.... what does being a man or woman have to do with understanding? He's ancient, can see the turn of the universe, fought with God's and demons... etc etc
I hate the phrases "wokism" and "agenda", but the PC stuff is horrendously heavy handed here. The Meep's pronouns, the "male presenting Time Lord", they're absolutely horrendously clunky and needles dialogue. But the worst of it, the whole resolution of The Meta Crisis. Rose is non binary? Great, but the "binary binary binary" repetition at the end of series 4 was mathematical, it had nothing to do with gender. It's very much a shoehorn and it's painfully bad. I like Rose as a character but Yasmin Finney's acting leaves an awful lot to be desired, she's as bad as Tosin Cole.
The terms wokism and agenda came about because of the heavy handed politics in shows. Why do you think people complain about it, because you end up letting it slide and slide until you end up with garbage like this episode. So many shows do this now its honestly immersion breaking.
![ILLSLICK - KILLSHOT REMIX [FULL VERSION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RIK8RrqIAzE/mqdefault.jpg)
Great reaction! I love this episode but the "something a male presenting Time Lord would never understand" line annoys me, the Doctor was literally a woman a couple of hours ago so he knows exactly what it's like to be a woman and isn't going to forget that experience because he regenerated
Yupp :)
Also Twelves last words were literally 'Doctor I let you go'!!!
Absolute nonsense
@@thesimpsons17why is twelves last line a problem?
Yeah, this line is my biggest issue with this episode (which I like overall). It's not just that the Doctor was a woman a few minutes ago, it's also that why would letting things go be something specifically a *male presenting* Time Lord would never understand? I don't think it's meant to be, but it really does just end up sexist, putting down one group for the purpose of raising another up. Leave it as just "something a Time Lord would never understand" and it's a lot better, though obviously the Doctor has let things go before, so it's still not perfect.
@@calebfairchild1830 because they said letting go is something a male presenting time lord would never understand
Eleven and Twelve both did exactly that
The moment I truly felt Murray Gold was back was when “I Am the Doctor” played. I couldn’t care if it wasn’t for the Eleventh Doctor because who knows if Matt’s ever coming back? It’s not called The Eleventh Doctor’s Theme, it’s I Am THE DOCTOR. Any Doctor. It’s just so good to have it back.
Miriam Margolyes is just brilliant as The Meep, I genuinely can't imagine anyone else doing the voice
Oh my god it’s the stair boost! I will always say how much I *loved* that Karl Collins came back. I didn’t even remember Shaun had *lines* during The End of Time (he did, but not much), so to be able to flesh him out here after serving as what felt like a symbol more than a character, that’s juicy stuff. And the characterization of an easygoing supportive dad willing to go along with anything, especially related to Doctor shenanigans? PERFECTION.
I had the pleasure of watching this live in Chicago, at a Doctor Who convention with the Director Rachel Talalay in the audience, as it was first airing/streaming. Rachel confirmed that the explanatory intro was tacked on at the request of Disney - and was a surprising last-minute thing she wasn't aware of. Apparently, the bits with Donna at the kitchen table were from outtakes/alternate takes of other scenes.
You can tell the 14th Doctor is calmer and more contemplative than the 10th Doctor. The scene with him sitting down, working out information with the sonic screwdriver screen is something that the 10th Doctor would never do - he'd run around manically talking to whomever, a million miles a second.
I disagree that the Doctor was the first UNIT scientific advisor. You might recall, from Spearhead from Space, that Liz Shaw was hired as UNIT's first scientific advisor, before the 3rd Doctor shows up. Ruth Madeley, who plays UNIT's current scientific advisor in this story, also played a companion of 6th Doctor in Big Finish, also a wheelchair user.
Beep the Meep has appeared in a number of Big Finish audio adventures, including a story with the 6th Doctor, called "The Ratings War."
Honesly, I like that recap part in the beginning. Gives some background info for people who are new to show.
Technically the second doctor was helping unit when they first appeared with the cyber man. But I guess technically Liz would be the first official one.
@@modboyhenry1 Just in case, I double-checked the transcript of that eight part episode (the one hosted on "Chrissie's Transcripts" website) for the following search terms: "science" "hired" "scientific" and "advisor" and nothing relevant came up, so I guess the Doctor wasn't formally attached to UNIT until Spearhead from Space.
This story is based on a 4th Doctor comic from the 80s
There is a mini comic between this and wild blue yonder and cloister room is the channel that has it, it was originally in doctor who magazine.
@hamzareacts The official mini comic that takes place between The Star Beast & Wild Blue Yonder is called “Squid Squad” and you can find it on TH-cam if you search “Cloister Room Squid Squad.”
So much for the 12th Doctors line: “we’re billions of years beyond your petty human obsession with gender and its associated stereotypes” - nice one RTD, now I owe Chibs an apology
Apology for what exactly? One bad RTD's sentence or hours of boring, incompetent dialogues from Chibs? :D
@@BaronMartin I don't think the scoreboard for bad sentences is just one. But this is a specific case where people might have been insulting Chibnall for being "Too Woke" only to have RTD basically shit on the Doctor and make Chibnall look good by comparison.
Moffat litterally went back on that like two episodes later by having The First Doctor be a sexist old codger
@@mrcritical6751 he totally did! That pissed me off too… I’m starting to think that a bunch of middle aged white dudes aren’t the best candidates for making edgy comments about gender…
lol this whole thread of comments is great, all my thoughts during the ep.
Which sucks because I didn't hate the ep, just the over-performative cringe execution of inclusivity. Like, for me, the kitchen scene with Donna and her mom was the perfect delivery of the concept, But then the 'male-presenting you don't understand' shit made my brain stop working for a minute lmao. Especially because I instantly thought of the line you just quoted when I first watched it.
I enjoyed your editing of this , well put together.
Just thought I would say Beep the Meep is actually from an old comic that inspired this episode. It's actually a sort of adaptation of the Star beast comic. There are some differences one of which being in the comic it was the fourth doctor.
The whole male presenting thing makes no sense when he was a woman a few hours before 😂 Just feels like an unnecessary line tbh
Very sexist too. Hates that
What makes it more ironic is that the person saying it is supposed to be someone who has transitioned from male to female, so when Donna is attacking the Doctor for not being a woman anymore, it comes across as 'anti-trans'. RTD really shot himself in the foot.
Felt like an insult to be honest. "You don't get it because you're a cis-white-male" kind of comment. Never mind that the Doctor is thousands of years old and has already literally been a woman.
@@darkwolf7740 Yeah it really does come across like that. It's almost like they just don't like men in general. Whether that's cis-men or trans-men.
@@Unethical.FandubsGamesSums up the BBC and Disney.
I'm so grateful that David & Catherine came back as Ncuti simply couldn't commit enough time for the 60th while finishing Sex Education S3, being required for any reshoots on Barbie & Who knows the exact Covid protocols at the time which would have been tighter than today, isolation/bubbles etc
I love this episode it made me fall in love with doctor who all over again. Glad you enjoyed it. I particularly liked all of Roses toy aliens from past stories i would love it if they came out as actual toys. Can't wait for the next video
Glad you enjoyed. Me too. Loved it. Like you, I think it still works as a first episode, but you are right about not getting the deeper context too. Its always a funny thing and hard to view something away from what you know or have seen and if it would work to someone who hadn't that knowledge and like you say it definitely would and you'd get the idea and context. Its just you get much more when having gone through the bigger journey too.
At 12:08, David Tennant’s delivery of “It’s Working!” sounds like he’s channeling Jake Lloyd from Episode 1 😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣
funny you said Meep is like how out harry potter Prof Sprout voices the meep, this episode is also taken from the comic with the same name, im pretty sure its a 4th Doctor comic
Ah cool, thanks for telling me :)
The opening sequence is literally there for new viewers who are unaware of the Doctor/Donna story to give them some background before the story starts.....it is a bit of a weird opening, but it gets that out of the way, so there doesn't have to be a big info-dump in the main story.
I loved the way Sylvia has changed- she now fiercely defends and protects her daughter. So different from her attitude when we first meet the family! My favourite moment is the 'Tuna madras' moment, where evryone is frozen mid chaos....and Sylvia is desperatey trying to keep things 'normal'.
Two questions:
1.) When you rewatched Series 4, what did you think of Simm's Master in The End of Time?
2.) What day is the Wild Blue Yonder Reaction coming out?
Didn’t like him or that two parter apart from the scenes with Wilf and the doctor :)
Really looking forward to next Episode's reaction
One thing I really appreciated about this episode is that Donna wasn’t actually a very nice person before she met the doctor which is what makes her memory wipe in journeys end so Tragic. I looks like getting married to a supportive husband, having a child and probably her mum finally treating her better (all along with the subconscious doctor Donna ticking away) helped her get back some of that growth she lost, even though she doesn’t have all her memories.
I just love how the house is full of apples. Bet, Sylvia placed them there, an apple a day keeps the Doctor away... Glad you enjoyed the episode. There surely were some great scenes in there, just a little bit too much cramped into it for my taste.
Nice that you noticed that :)
That’s awesome 😂
My theory on why the sonic can do what it does is because the tardis was broken/rebuilding on which case the majority of its dimensional engineering gets transferred to the sonic until the tardis is rebuilt, letting the sonic do things it can’t normally do (doesn’t explain why it’s never happened before…maybe 13 tinkered with it)
Its a very fun ep... not perfect by any means... the end reason of Donna and Rose letting go is cheesy... i think a better explanation was right there... cos the Metacrisis was split between the two, it was easier to get rid of and not as dangerous, also they cud have played the human angle as well... they cud have made an excuse that the Doctor at the time of journeys end didn't think of letting go as an option (technically that's what caused the meta crisis 😂 he didn't want to regenerate) and Donna at that time didn't want to be herself again... but this time she's more happy in her life... and content...so letting go of this makes sense.. ah well it is what it is... im glad she is alive 😂
I knew about the meep cos of the comics... but i still enjoyed the turn.. and the practical and cgi effects were just perfect for the meep..
A lot of scenes were cut so it does feel choppy at times...and that beginning bit was a last minute addition i think for new viewers ... but it was so cheesy 😂
Love 14, love Donna... and sylvia stole the show "he doesn't exist" 😂 shaun and Rose are lovely too...first proper trans character in the story...
RTD described it as a family blockbuster... and it delivered... was a joy ride...
Oh and it was funny to see your reaction to the money... knowing what Donna was gonna say later 😂
I was absolutely 50/50 on this new New Who. The stuff I liked I really liked, the stuff I didn't like I really didn't like.
When it came to the 13th Doctor's episodes. I was maybe 60/40. This stuff, I'm closer to 40-60. The stuff I like: I like. The stuff I don't like: I really hate.
interesting solution... to say the least..
but i'm male presenting, i don't think i'm supposed to get it
😂😂
@@HamzaReactz what a psyop
??
@@HamzaReactz Tactics meant to target your enemy's state of mind. Basically, he's saying that this is like political brainwashing. It's not entirely wrong to say so, either. It's still not "literally" a psyop, though.
Ugh, I had almost forgotten that a recipe for 'Tuna Madras' exists in the world. It's even worse when you find out what Russell T. Davis' family recipe for it is...
4:50 its ironic you say its something out of Harry Potter, because The Meep was voiced by Professor Sprout 😅
"The Star Beast" is based on the 1979 Dr. Who marvel comic book which is the same story but features The Fourth Doctor (Tom Baker) instead of The Fourteenth Doctor (David Tennant) and the characters Sharon and Fudge instead of Donna Noble and Rose Noble who were school students another difference to the comic that wasn't used in the episode was the wrath warriors kidnapped The Fourth Doctor to their ship for split second to have him operated on to have a bomb placed in his body as a tracker to track down Beep The Meep also in the comic Beep The Meep was said to be "male" but in the episode Beep was neither male or female but was voiced by actress Miriram Margoyles who is best known to the younger generation as Professor Promona Sprout from the Harry Potter franchise.
There has also been an audio version of "The Star Beast" with Tom Baker voicing The Fourth Doctor.
The first Doctor Who on a bigger Disney budget but i'm old fashioned i prefer the lower budget tin foil and bubble wrap monsters personally i do however love the new TARDIS set it feels as you said "spacey" but feels like Classic Who but on a much bigger budget i'm glad to have the round things back but the music around that scene felt very disney-esk and abit too cringe i still like the TV Movie Eighth Doctor's TARDIS as that one was a house.
As nice as it was seeing Donna again i didn't like her ending from Series 4 being undone because now we re-watch that series without any emotional impact i was hoping she would either be a "past" Donna or an "alternative" Donna with effecting her ending but not the case and the way it was done was very silly it also urks me when they try to make the companions super powerful gods which was one the reasons i was glad they got back to normal companions during the Jodie Whittaker era.
Although i still don't like the idea of David Tennant being the Fourteenth Doctor he wasn't as bad or as cringe as i thought he would be but i still don't like the idea of an actor whose already been the Doctor as a "new" incarnation because it's not really new or original.
I also don't like the new title sequence because it's Murray Gold and sounds the same and not progressive and just feels bland however i'm glad to see the old diamond logo back.
The doctor became units scientific advisor in the invasion,when he was the second doctor.
The first scientific advisor was Liz Shaw in Spearhead from Space. The Doctor didn’t become scientific advisor until after Liz was hired. He wasn’t the advisor in The Invasion.
I have a lot of mixed feelings about this episode. There's a lot in it that I love but a lot that I have an issue with (although mostly minor stuff). I feel like the Doctor is just super lax on trying to stop Donna remembering him, and I don't like him just straight up looking at her and saying "this is a sonic screwdriver" and similar stuff. The whole "let it go" thing just feels very rushed and unsatisfying.
One awesome thing is that this is an adaptation of a comic from 1980 with the Fourth Doctor. Big Finish also adapted it into an audio and this episode loosely follows the plot of it, although expands on and changes a lot to the point where it's basically its own thing, and I think it does a great job of introducing the new era. The tone is great and I remember loving it on first watch (although my opinion has gone down as time goes on. I like it overall but its flaws leave it as probably my least favourite of the three specials). Also that TARDIS! I love the Doctor running around like a little kid, and seeing behind the scenes of the interior shows how amazing the set is. Now, into the Wild Blue Yonder!
Fair issues to have with it :)
A lovely reaction to an episode I can't help but love in spite of a couple of issues I have with it.
The trouble with David Tennant and Catherine Tate is that you just want more of them. Even if they'd done a full season instead of a few specials, it still wouldn't be enough.
That was fast, I thought you were taking a few days off. 🙂. I wasn’t wild about this episode. It felt clunky. There were good bits and not so great bits. I thought the “letting go” to fix things was rushed and weird. I kinda wish the “letting go” had been foreshadowed. I think the convo between Sylvia and Donna would have been a great place (maybe Sylvia talking about how difficult it is to let go of the dreams she had for a grandson, and Donna quipping that there is a lot of power in letting go. ). At least then that last bit where Donna and Rose insulted the doctor and “fixed” things wouldn’t have felt like RTD pulled the solution out of his behind. A little tweaking and it would have been fine but overall this felt more like a fanfiction “fix-it” than a strong ep. Donna, after that initial series 4 ending, deserved better. I found most of the 60th not great, with some good bits (one exception but I won’t spoil). This episode I thought was crap, with a few good bits (to paraphrase your review of the sea devils episode). Glad you liked it.
Could you imagine if 10th & Donna had an adventure where they encounter a Weeping Angel & Rose ends up creating a Weeping Angel toy?
I keep thinking of Meap from Phineas & Ferb whenever the Meep is shown, the Wrarth Warriors as Kamen Riders, & Fudge (who tf calls their child Fudge?) as Timmy Turner
I personally like this episode on the 1st watch though it's kind of when I rewatch or see other people's reaction & discussions to this episode where I realise it wasn't a good episode but more of a alright episode, like a 6/10. I remember there were times I felt the episode felt like it focused more on the Doctor & Donna reuniting rather than the story itself. Many times I felt baffled on why the Doctor is explaining stuff to Donna like the sonic screwdriver scene instead of either not or brushing it off since the Doctor is literally the one who states if Donna remembers she will die. Meep being the villain I could see it from a far. Like many others, I didn't quite like the gender aspect the episode had a focus on & many in your comments have already voiced out why. I absolutely love the scene at 11:22, you could just feel the emotion the Doctor had been holding back ever since losing his best friend & the realisation that in order for the world to be saved he would have to sacrifice Donna, someone he just reunited with again after a long time. I still hope the list of words (Westerly, Pelican, Dreams, etc.) the Doctor says does have meaning. I thought each word would refer to an adventure the Doctor & Donna had so each word triggers a memory of an adventure tied to that word but it doesn't seem to be. It's also nice to see the change in Sylvia from S4
The intro definitely could have been done better but i get the reason behind it with the specials being the only thing on Disney+ with no previous context.
when I watched earlier it had 42 views, this has to be quickest you've gotten to 1000 views bro?? that's mad
Power of the doctor got 1k within an hour, the ones with important big scenes usually do that :)
I’ve never been too keen on the idea of David Tennant coming back as a future incarnation and all the emotional consequences of Series 4 getting undone icel
This is the second best of the three I would say. Wild blue yonder is the best, and the Giggle is the weakest Imo. I would not really consider this a jumping on point tbh. As you said at the end, I would consider the church on ruby road to be the true jumping on point. If Power of the Doctor was the final of new who and church is the start of Disney Who/new new who, the three specials are like the bridge between the two, similar to how the 8th doctor movie is the bridge between classic who and new who.
Like no time has passed! And the quality of writing is such step up from the clunky dialogue of the 13th Doctor era. Such a pity, I’d love RTD to write for Graham and 13!
So, as a trans-woman, I appriciate the representation with Rose. However, I have problems with it too.
- The Pronouns Scene: If Rose had mentioned Pronouns before hand with the Meep, it would've felt more natural to me. A small nitpick compared to the next thing...
- "Male Presenting Time Lord" comment: No. This shouldn't have been there. It was completely unneeded and sends the wrong msg. It also slightly undermines Jodies Doctor, putting her Doctor down to her gender. I think that was unintentional tho.
- More of a nitpick than anything, but I think having the Metacrisis resolved by "letting it go" felt cheap and easy. They could've had the specials explore how to save Donna and Rose from the Metacrisis. With the Doctor being older, it would've made sense foe a solution to occur in the Giggle after the encounter with the villain.
These are my main negatives about this story, and my thoughts on it. Glad you enjoyed it!
Exactly. There wasn't a need anyway to the "let it go" shtick, because Donna passing it on to her child changed the rules anyway, so this could have just been a solution to the Doctordonna problem.
I agree with each of those points but I don't think that RTD was unintentionally sending the wrong message rather he was more concerned about sending a specific message and not caring about the implications.
The ending was super clunky, the dialogue felt like it was ripped from twitter (binary binary binary... non-binary. Neither, and both, and more. That shit made me laugh. It was so stupid.) and it basically insulted both the current doctor to his face and undermined everything that the previous doctor represented. Not bad for someone who has a whole team at his disposal.
Instead of doing the whole "did you just assume its pronouns" which literally sounds like it's mocking trans people and trans allies they could just had her *jokingly* ask "oh so you just assume it's a he?" which would feel more natural and still get the point across. Just really weird writing.
@@hanonhold Agreed.
11:19 BEST part! Just brilliant!
Plus, I have to admit, even as a 12th Doctor fanboy, this is the most amazing TARDIS design that I've ever seen!! I'm in love!! 😍🥹
The comic is called squid squad
Also that weird intro was filmed for people watching the 60th specials as their first episode and also for disney+ viewers
I loved this episode so much
Glad to hear you enjoy it :)
I'll be honest I was massively disappointed when this came out. It's another story where there's a lot of plot contrivances, not enough time to explore everything, I think the whole ending is cringe and for me kind of ruined the really authentic character development up until that point. It also relies on 'We're dangling a carrot infront of you' mystery but there's like... no pay off?
The practical effects for Beep are fab. The scene with Sylvia and Donna is great. Shaun is hilarious and the MVP. But otherwise it's just such a mid episode for a 60th for me. Not very special.
Also the last line? "It can take us anywhere in time and space!"... isn't that the entire purpose of the TARDIS in the first place. Just such a dumb line that just made me laugh for the wrong reasons.
But in 'The Giggle' there are some spoilers if they are new to Doctor Who.
when the doctor said "it killed me Donna" and followed it with four counts of "it killed me"
The four counts of that represent him dying and becoming 11, then 12, then 13, then 14.
Four deaths.
"The boss" is coming in one of the new series, by the way, so be prepared to see who it is my friend 😁 there are loads of theories but hope it is going to be good
It’ll be the master like it always is :)
I’m hoping it’s Omega ( classic who) and not The Master, The Daleks or The Cybermen.
@wolfmacleod I agree my friend, I believe its another time lord maybe, omega or rassilon
Tbh, even those aren’t interesting to me. I would like it to be a new, original character :)
@@HamzaReactz fair enough, just as long as they're written well
1:06 recapping series 4 by breaking the fourth wall
Thanks for stating the obvious 😂
I’ve heard that intro was done in the way it was because they initially wanted Wilf to do it but he died before they could film anymore scenes with him. He also sadly died before he could do a scene with Yasmin Finney, Yasmin spoke about him being the best onscreen grandfather she ever had, so I think there was a scene where they interacted that would have been done in the script read through but never made it to air
The weird intro was added very late on the advice of disney i think
This was based on a dr who comic from the 70s
13:35 "What is going on" is a subdued reaction. My wife's reaction to that scene was: "Oh fuck this stupid show." (She has a high tolerance for bullshit but she's written Doctor Who off completely at this point. Won't even watch the old stuff anymore.)
When Rose went "Non-binary" and "Neither. And Both. And more" my whole friend group laughed and we knew they were trying WAY too hard with that bollocks.
Subdued reaction is the best way to put it tbh :)
Next episode I can’t wait for the reaction 😌
16:37 I think you couldn’t start from here cos when you go back Donna’s ending would be spoilt
You have like 2 episodes to catch up.
Life on Mars uk next
already told you that wont be happening so please stop asking :)
All hail the meep
Yeah i'm sorry the cold open looks like a character select screen in a video game, not a fan of that... but overall a fun episode! And this episode loosely adapts a 1980 DWM Fourth Doctor comic strip called The Star Beast!
Yeah that opening just didn’t sit right very cheap looking, and not exactly necessary as the episode explained it all in the first 5 mins anyway haha
@@Doctor_What63 Exactly! I do think that was something Disney specifically asked for since that opening is not in the script, the episode was scripted to open with the shot of London and the TARDIS arriving.
@@friendlyotaku9525 The episode was meant to be for Disney to get convinced to pick up the series later, the director is known to be able to stretch budgets and make a cheap set look good with it, likely RTD put that in himself because there was nowhere else for it, since Jodie's TARDIS had been dismantled by that point which is where it would take place.
This episode was not actually made with the famous "Disney Dollars." The Star Beast episode needed to look expensive as this is the episode that was pitched to Disney. Rachel Tallaly is known for stretching a budget and making things look expensive without the money for it, which is why she was asked to direct this one. I'm sure some Disney dollars were used for post production CGI shots, but the majority of this was done on the cheap.
Yeah a lot of that budget went towards Series 14 itself which RTD has said is the TRUE launch.
When’s wby dropping
This is the weakest of the 3 for me, but it's still very much enjoyable.
The "male-presenting Time Lord would never understand" line is complete garbage and I think I'm yet to see anyone genuinely try to defend it. It's not even "woke". By a fairly typical definition of "woke", a lot of people would probably call me woke and I think it's a stupid line. It's sexist and makes zero sense.
Thank you for pointing out that it isn't even "woke". I think RTD really did a bad job with this line - after he did a great one with the scene with Rose's classmates and the talk between Donna and her mother about her feeling clumsy.
See. This is a line created by a guy who isn't a part of the queer community thinking he's scoring brownie points with the queer viewers and folks who think that "one-upping the cis-man" is some sort of victory. That makes him pretty woke. That's how a lot of people see that term. It's not about being progressive, it's about scoring points. Or to put it another way; virtue-signalling.
Sadly. That line likely did more harm than good. It gives the wrong people the kind of ammunition that they can use and justifies some prejudiced views they might have. If the message had been about acceptance and tolerance: It would have been fine.
@@Unethical.FandubsGamesAs out of touch as RTD clearly is with younger queer people, he is gay himself. He literally created Queer as Folk which was a huge thing for gay rep on TV in the late 90s, and almost all of his work has centred around queer characters. I actually think being part of the "queer community" himself is what made him feel like he could write this stuff without actually consulting any trans people.
@@Unethical.FandubsGames Sorry, I disagree. You might want to double check RTD's bio, definitely part of the queer community. It's okay to dislike the line because it's badly written, as many agree. Speculating about his motives is something I won't do. And anyway imo the line isn't about queerness. It's old-fashioned men vs women, but rephrased because it wouldn't work to call the doctor a man. Well, it doesn't work anyway so...
I think people hang too much on the male presenting Time Lord line given it's just Donna taking the piss out of her friend (though I don't love the line, either)
Oh and the sonic is too OP now and needs writing out. Its overused and now OP
Remember what I said about 11's 2nd TARDIS interior?
That point still stands, but this comes as a very close second.
Also i agree ... Church on Ruby road is definitely a good starting point for new people... i think that's why Disney are promoting it as well
This episode was a flop and a half. Aside from the nostalgia factor of seeing Tennant and Tate again… the episode is mid at best.
It’s not horrendous but it didn’t live up to the enormous hype.
It’s like the Doctor wants to kill Donna, handing her the sonic screwdriver and making those dumb forcefields etc.
Series 4 is my favourite series personally, so seeing how that storyline is bastardised at the end here with Donna and Rose just letting it go along with a sexist ‘joke’ is a huge shame, to the point I’d rather have left things where they were because I loved the brutal ending of series 4.
Or I’d rather we’d kept the Doctor Donna for a bit since passing it on to Rose slows the harmful effects.
RTD tries hard but just doesn’t get it, Rose is a Trans woman, that’s different to non-binary… and binary gender has shit all to do with Donna saying ‘binary’ at the end of series 4.
That ‘male presenting’ joke has potentially harmful effects on male presenting trans people who have transitioned from female to male - good job RTD, if you wanna virtue signal, fact check yourself, do some research first.
Yep. That ending sent all the wrong messages and all for the sake of appearing woke. It's funny when people just wanna be accepted and RTD writes THAT into a show and includes a "you're a male presenting time lord". Well done, RTD. That really doesn't help the queer folk.
I will never get over the lost potential with these episodes 😢 so disappointed
I thought this one was alright. Not amazing. Just alright.
Not a fan of the intro, but I expect that was probably a Disney request.
The main plot is a bit meh. Your standard 'evil beings aren't actually evil and someone you don't suspect is' plot. Kind of like Demons of the Punjab, but this was nowhere near as effective.
It was nice to see Donna again, even if the whole 'she will die if she remembers' stuff was waved away a little too easily. It does hurt her original ending quite a bit for me, which is a shame. Completely agree with you that the idea anyone would give all of their lottery money away is a bit silly.
To quite a common opinion that this is the weakest of the three. Even though I like it, id have to agree
I enjoyed this for the most part but definitely found the messages a bit ham-fisted (and I say this as a queer person). The male-presenting line was ridiculous and I've seen women and "woke gen z" blamed for it when it was literally written by a middle aged man who's trying too hard 💀
Hopefully less of that when the new season starts.
I thought the effects were pretty good and the meep's a fun villain. Just a fun story in general.
Interested to see what you make of the bext episode.
"when it was literally written by a middle aged man who's trying too hard "
Pretty much what people mean by being "woke". That said. RTD might have done more harm than good for the trans community with the closing of this episode. It felt like the dialogue was written by Twitter: The kind who constantly rant about "cis" this and "cis" that. Or about how "representation" is super important.
As someone who is not a straight man and whose friends include some pretty queer folks, too, none of us liked that ending. Some of us even stopped watching altogether afterwards. It wasn't appreciated by many that the Doctor was basically being insulted to his face by people who should understand him better than most.
Mixed feelings. But generally mostly positive. What i hate is after the Davros retcon interview Shirley is created. Just to create badass one. Id just rather they just created Shirley and not change Davros.
And 2nd issue is Rose. Too heavy handed and her gender is central to the resolution not just a part of her character.
But enjoyable episode, great acting and the Meep is adorable.
I just which the bug aliens got more.
Love Slyvia in this one.
This one is based on a 4th doctor comic strip apparently
And funny you mention meep being out of harry potter….its played by same actress who prayed Professor Sprout
I liked Shirley, but my only problem with her is that she is portrayed as almost a 'Mary Sue'. UNIT couldn't afford a ramp but they could afford a rocket wheelchair? 😂
I really like the episode..
But... the ending... it just.. so rushed.. everything is magically restored.. Donna's condition is cured so easily.. it undermine the ending of Donna in season 4. Rose is such a great character but she is reduced to "the trans one" ant it's really sad because I love the actress. (Why the deadname, why this beautifull speech about the Doctor being more than one gender if just after that they make a joke about the Doctor doesn't understanding something because he is not a girl) What is sad is that I see the good attention behind all of that.. but this not well made.. I don't know what happen with all of that..
The ending undermind a really good episode. Because if I ignore all of that I love it. Donna's return is so cool, see how her and her family evolve. The 14th Doctor personnally is so cool ! The Meep is such a good antagoniste.
It's a shame... 😔
The handling of Rose in this episode will actually hurt sentiment about trans characters more than help. It's really sad because it is just a token trans character that spouted the kind of nonsense lines you would have expected from a twitter troll.
It was nice to see The Doctor and Donna back. They were my favourite male and female duo. You can tell that The 14th Doctor here is much different to 10th Doctor like that part where he rage because he has to sacrifice Donna to save the earth. He never does anything like that. 10 always try to stay calm and just gets upset and keeps his rage bottle in.
This episode is pretty good, but it’s definitely the more family friendly sort of goofy one of the three. I think they really fucked up the messages in this episode because they had a great opportunity with making rose a trans character but did silly things like ask the evil aliens pronouns (which wasn’t that bad on its own tbf but felt a tiny bit unnatural) and make the meta crisis solution a pretty weird attempt at a political statement that made no sense considering the doctor had essentially just gone through a gender transition and been a woman like a couple hours prior. It’s still a great episode but it opened up wounds for like weird attacks on the show and didn’t make the progressive stuff feel as cool and natural as it did with things like captain Jack
bro spoiled himself on almost *everything* related to the 60th XD. couldn't help yourself lol!!
Not really, trailers and images were all over social media, can’t avoid it :)
Still annoys me that the 60th anniversary of the show is just RTD celebrating series 4. Im sure these specials are great if you like the Tenth Doctor but if you dont care about him its a slog
Not really celebrating series 4 either considering the episode took an almighty dump on the series 4 story arch at the end there lol
Sorry, but really? Only celebrating series 4? We have one of the most favourites Doctors ever and one of the best companions ever back. We have an adaptation of a classic comic book story, the return of a villain who wasn't in show for nearly 60 years, return of a classic companion (Mel), tons of references and easter eggs. I think it celebrates Doctor Who in a great way. Come on, it's just 60th anniversary. It's not 50th or 100th, just 60th, some shows don't even celebrate a 10 years period. Why should every anniversary special be full of cameos?
Not gonna say too much to avoid spoiling things that happen in the following episodes.
I would say that the weird thing in the beginning where The Doctor explains what happens in Season 4 is necessary only really for the casual fans who haven't seen that story line in 15 years and barely remember it.
I also think that all the clunky dialogue and lines with Rose and her being trans make it clear there probably wasn't anyone trans in the writing room to advise on that. I think RTD meant well but just didn't stick the landing.
I do like this episode but I do think it is the worst of these specials. And I don't mean that as a sleight against this episode but as a praising of the next two.
The recap part is also there for new fans :D Don't forget that this is the first episode of DW on Disney+, so for many people, it's the first episode of the show they ever saw.
@@BaronMartin True. But given how much this relies on old story lines, more so than the beginning of NewWho, I think more people who are interested in getting into Doctor Who would start with Rose.
Take away the sexist attack against a man who just saved London, and a pronoun lecture by a trans *child* this episode was so disappointing. Average at best. For an anniversary special, it's underwhelming...
Yes, it was a woke too far.... a great story ruined by a number of one liners designed to tick current boxes.... what does being a man or woman have to do with understanding? He's ancient, can see the turn of the universe, fought with God's and demons... etc etc
I get that they're trying to make the show better for any LGBT Doctor who fans but this episode was taking the piss.
I hate the phrases "wokism" and "agenda", but the PC stuff is horrendously heavy handed here. The Meep's pronouns, the "male presenting Time Lord", they're absolutely horrendously clunky and needles dialogue. But the worst of it, the whole resolution of The Meta Crisis. Rose is non binary? Great, but the "binary binary binary" repetition at the end of series 4 was mathematical, it had nothing to do with gender. It's very much a shoehorn and it's painfully bad. I like Rose as a character but Yasmin Finney's acting leaves an awful lot to be desired, she's as bad as Tosin Cole.
The terms wokism and agenda came about because of the heavy handed politics in shows. Why do you think people complain about it, because you end up letting it slide and slide until you end up with garbage like this episode. So many shows do this now its honestly immersion breaking.