For me, the metacrisis has nothing to do with the fact that Rose is trans But it has to do with her name Donna named her (redacted) which means "healer" in ancient greek. So she more or less named her child "Doctor" Then Rose came out as trans and she chosed a name form her shared memories from her mother with the metacrisis, Rose being one of the most important character for the Doctor at the time Donna became Doctor Donna Her "I'm finally me" means for me that, now the power of the time lords being dissipated, she finally feel herself and not a mix of her mom's memories and hers
Everyone talks about the Disney money in this episode. I was recently at a Doctor Who convention where they admitted that they didn't have any of the Disney money yet at this point. It came about because we asked why this is the episode that Rachel Talalay was given, and not the Giggle. They said that Rachel is famous for making cheap budgets look expensive and this was the episode that was shipped to Disney to beg for sponsorship. So for that reason, this episode was Rachel Talalay on a regular Doctor Who budget, but that led to Disney throwing Disney money at them for the next 3 epsidoes.
When you mention about whether or not the Dr can drive, you should look back a few years (quite a few) to when Jon Pertwee played the Dr. between 1970-74, as he actually drove a car in many of the stories. It was a yellow car with the name Bessie, and was actually a 1954 Ford Popular 103E, just with additional customized prop bodywork.
Just a quick mention. "The Star Beast" was adapted from a Fourth Doctor comic book story from 1980. When I initially saw the Meep and the Wrarth Warriors in the trailer, I had an idea of where the story was heading. I did like how they dealt with the Doctor/Donna problem that Donna initially had to forget her adventures with the Doctor.
No. Totally agreed. The Binary/Non-Binary bit was a little ham-fisted and the "haha men can't let things go" - joke didn't really land and made the moment kinda crunchy. I also kinda got the impression that even though Fem non-binary is a thing, RTD didn't really quiiiiite understand and just wanted to use the "non-binary" hook for DoctorDonna's "Binary, Binary, Binary..." bit. Because yeah, up to that point, Rose just came off as a binary trans woman. Maybe if they had spent some time showing Rose having doubts or troubles with her fem presentation or identity, then a "OH! I'm not male OR female! I'm both and neither! I'm non-binary!" - moment would have worked better.
The Meep was voiced by Miriam Margolyes probably best known for playing Professor Sprout in the Harry Potter movies, her appearances on the Graham Norton show are comedy gold!
Glad to see you guys checking Doctor Who. There's no other show like it. Even when it's bad it's still Doctor Who, so let's keep the ride going as long as it can. :) There's a handful of amazing episodes in Jodie Whittaker's era (Demons of the Punjab, It Takes You Away, The Haunting of Villa Diodati are on top of that list) and at least we'll always have those... but I wish you'd give Peter Capaldi's run anoher chance. I do consider series 9 and 10 to be one of the highlights of the show, but that's just me.
Regarding Rose, I think the metacrisis energy helped her be in touch with herself. Also regarding the fix at the end, the first time Donna was being overwhelmed too quickly to consider other solutions. Once the energy was distributed across two people, Donna had time to consider what was happening and find a different solution in consciously allowing the energy to dissipate.
Yeah I also kind of petered out after the Rosa ep (watched two random ones after to check if the writing fixed itself) Even as a Brit, I felt the writing in Rosa was too surface for such an important story of international renown. Overall I was so pissed that the first female doctor got done dirty by bad writing by Chibnal.
@@EaterOfBaconSandwiches I messed up in my clarity, the chibnal comment was for the overall show since he was running and managing the direction and it shoulda been more careful cos of the historic first with Jodie as the Doctor, I do keep meaning to try and power thru it on bbc iPlayer and watch what I missed using the power of knowing better writing is back with RTD but haven’t done it yet. Maybe in the gap between Xmas and the new season.
The Star Beast was based on a 1979 Marvel Dr. Who comic book also titled "The Star Beast" which featured The Fourth Doctor (Tom Baker) instead of The Fourteenth Doctor (David Tennant) and the character Rose was in place of Sharon from the comic. Beep The Meep has become my favourite new Dr. Who villain.
There was a fun panel at JordanCon last year about Doctor Who, and one of the points someone brought up has stayed with me. They pointed out that they didn't trust Jodie/femaleDoctor to carry the show with only a Companion, so they gave her a "family." That showerunner really robbed her. I hope Russell finds a way to bring her back for a storyline of some kind.
You’re thinking about it way too hard David tennant, Matt Smith, and Peter Capaldi all had difficulty of letting go hence “I don’t want to go” so that’s what they were referring to. Also did you notice that the Doctor is acting out a little bit of each Doctor like when he first arrives and looks around like Christopher and the shield in the house is similar to Matt smith’s Christmas special with the snowman
I saw someone call these episodes forgettable monster of the week episodes, which couldn't be further off. Each of these could be THE monster of the week episode for a whole season. Like, the best of a season. Sure, they are pretty monster of the week, but they fucking SHINE.
I loved The Star Beast! It was great to see Tennant and Tate back again. Yasmin Finney is a great edition. I had a smile on my face the entire episode! It was just so much fun! I do wish Fourteen was a little less like Ten. He’s supposed to be a different incarnation. I thought there was something fishy going on with The Meep and the Wreath Warriors. But I didn’t call The Meep being the villain and the Wreath Warriors being like intergalactic criminal court police. Miriam Margolyes was excellent as The Meep. I really like the way they both reactivated the meta-crisis with the “binary, binary, binary” glitch repetition and then solved the meta-crisis with it being male, female, binary, and non-binary. And that Rose inherited the meta-crisis. It was very reminiscent of River having Time Lord powers. But the meta-crisis solution of “let it go” just felt a little anticlimactic. The new TARDIS looks a little too clean and clinical. The TARDIS is alive. It should have a personality. And they are putting that Disney money to work with those fantastic VFX. If we do get that UNIT spin-off, I hope Shirley is in it. Also, apparently it was David who suggested Fourteen run around the TARDIS but he was regretting it by the eighth take.
Re: Trans/Non-binary Rose.... I didn't read it that way... I read it as that metacrisis solution was possible *because* she was non-binary, not that she was non-binary because of the metacrisis problem... and that "clearing" the metacrisis made her finally feel like herself
Nice to see you two reacting to these. I was happy to see Doctor/Donna again. Those two were so good together. I know this episode was controversial for reasons. I appreciate that these subjects were mentioned, but not forced down our throat. It felt closer to normal life vs making a statement. Like a fair amount of Jodie's episodes, the writing always felt so judgy or high and mighty. Look forward to next week.
15:34 classic 3rd Doctor in the 1970s drove cars like a boss, including a classic roadster and a levitating 'WhoMobile'. He also implemented full remote control on the roadster, controlled via the sonic of course. Eat your hearts out Tony Stark and that vile man-child whose name I will not speak here.
They probably thought if they made the doctor not be able to drive it would contradict classic who.. plus we wouldn't get a clip of Matt Smith driving a motorcycle up a building😂
My head cannon is different. I think because there was two minds with two hearts was the reason they were both able to shake off the meta-crisis TimeLord Doctor. Donna couldn’t do it by herself hence the memory wipe by The Doctor to save Donna.
Just to say about the Doctor driving the 3rd Doctor (Jon Pertwee the one I started with)did alot of being marooned on Earth so David Tennant's Doctor would know how to drive,great reaction anyway.
This Tardis definitely feels like factory settings just bigger and I think it's a good choice bc they are essentially starting over and now we got that Disney money lmao
You guys have to remember who is running the show now. Its RTD. He will use a daft but vaguely plausible explanation to undo all of Donna's issues. We're all going to go "huh? that both make and doesn't make sense" and move on.
fyi the doctor who backlog is on Max for the forseeable future. if you wanna go back and see all of Capaldi's run thats where you get it. The stuff from the Star Beast on is whats on Disney Plus at least until Max's license for the backlog expires. edit: This isn't the DIsney Plus budget. That doesn't kick in until Ncuti's first season. The four specials were filmed before the Disney deal went through.
The TARDIS is actually alive, and goes where it feels the heebie-jeebies sometimes, messing with the Doctors head and annoying the companion who is supposed to be on their way home... It's a running theme...
Tardis at the end of this: oh no, my new controls, now I have to go crazy about this and not let Donna go home immediately oops (sarcasm) Tardis next episode: oop I girlbossed too close to the sun, gotta go!
From this first episode I wasn't fully sold yet on Russell's new era either, but Im glad you're gonna continue cause at this point post-special-three I'm feeling quite reinvigorated. The Star Beast does feel like a means to an end to get things going again, and I agree the doctor donna stuff felt a bit rushed but with three specials to get everything done it makes sense that they did it that way. Part of me wonders whether this episode was purposefully very upfront with trying to work a trans character into the plot so that it was inescapable to people returning to the show. The idea that Rose is trans as a result of the meta-crisis didnt sit well with me either, but in the end the episode still focuses on how its great that shes trans and is getting support from her family, and whatever the case I'm very glad of trans representation.
Love your reactions as always. The specials are fun and I am tentatively looking forward to seeing what we get with Ncuti (though Eccleston will always be my fav Doctor.) On the weird non-binary stuff : RTD has always tackled queer stuff in an odd way. I just accept that we all have different perspectives and his is kinda wonky, though not malicious. I also think the Tardis put a coffee maker up front knowing Donna didn't want to travel again, but would spill it the coffee and be forced to go. The Tardis also looks like that, if I remember correctly, because David Tennant wanted it to be big enough to run around in. RTD said he regretted making it that size once they actually started filming in it. The details on that might be wrong.
I'm a big fan of both dr who and the expanse, so glad to see you check these episodes out. I think it was Moffat that described the show as an experiment of sorts. You can go from space adventure to historical settings from one episode to the next. That also naturally means that some episodes just won't be great in every episode, because when you experiment more it can be hit or miss. But when it works, it can be really really good. And personally i found the Star beast to be the weakest of the specials. I thought the story was more generic and relied a lot on nostalgia. I get why they would start that way, but the following ones to me are more why i love Dr who
If you have the time, you should catch the Capaldi ones! There are some really really good episodes there. One of my absolute favorite episodes of the entirety of Doctor Who is also in his era. (Those who watched, you know the one.)
i also thought the cgi of the town being decimated with 0 deaths its a typical doctor who trope that i have huge problems with. the stakes always have to be massive and with this they just hint an undo button which makes no sense. similar to how the end of jodis era they explain that earth is the center of this cataclysmic event which was wiping out the universe..... so they stopped it just in time for earth to not be consumed so the entire universe was literally wiped out yet chibnals sloppy writing decided to say it was just half the universe but thats not what we were told or show and they also showed that event would have wiped out all the past villains of the show that are always recurring. i dont think its a spoiler to talk about that considering you havent seen it because either way its referenced.
27:45 is my main issue with this ep... Its a fun one overall. Seeing everyone again was great,i wasnt a massive fan of the Doctor Donna quickfix; kinda devalues the end of season 4 for me. But yeah the "men cant let things go" thing felt a bit like RTD trying to provoke people, which is not something i really wanted in Doctor Who. Its different when an episode tackles a subject and a touchy conversation happens but out of the blue statements arent it Mirium Margoles voicing The Meep wasnt on my bingo card for the anniversary but ill take it
After watching more, Nerdy NEEDS to watch Capaldis seasons. The character work for The Doctor, Clara, Bill and Missy throughout those 3 seasons is the best in the entire reboot imo.
The whole let it go part was a dig at men for always trying to keep hold of there power. Unlike women who can just let power go. Yet to meet a woman who can just let things go.
We have seen the base Tardis and that's not what it looks like, (in old who but also a few times in nuwho like in hell bent in s9) sure the mainly white inside is a nod to it, bringing many old elements back. and the "let it go" moment didn't ruin the episode for me but it wasn't great.
i didnt think the nonbinary bit was implying that the metacrisis was the reason rose was trans. though now that you say it i can imagine RTD being that tone deaf in trying to make a political statement on a subject matter he doesnt know much about. but then why would a trans actress was ok with the lines so you would think if they were trying to send a message and be inclusive the trans person would be part of the conversation as to how to go about delivering the info. and now we have made it so Davros isnt in a wheel chair because tv and movies has a history of handicap people being portrayed as villains so we retconed Davros in a special most people wont see. apparently RTD thinks its not ok for a villain to be handicapped in anyway which is why we also have a bad ass unit agent in a wheel chair in this episode.
I really enjoyed the specials but this one is probably the weakest of the three. It's like they just needed to get the DoctorDonna stuff out of the way. I think this episode handled the trans stuff really well, especially the conversation between Donna and Sylvia, but I think RTD is still a bit confused on what non-binary means. And that "male presenting" line seems like him trying to do one of those on the edge kinda sexist jokes Moffat used to do but it just came off not jokey at all. So that line and the roads closing up are the only things that bugged me in this episode. But if the heavier use of CGI is putting you off...brace yourself.
I'm glad I have a friend who made me watch jodie's era with them bc I might have not finished it otherwise. There's stuff to like but it was the weakest point in the show. But I would still recommend watching Flux! It's jodie's last season and only six episodes.
I think I'd have bought the "let it go" moment if they'd backed it up with a psuedo-scientific reason. (Time, splitting it up made it easier to process it and expunge, or something). Considering how vocal RTD has been in explaining elements of these specials, I don't think that's the intended way to take the 'non-binary' thing. I think it was just in that moment Rose understood that they were non-binary in that moment (because Time Lords are kinda fundamentally both and gained that knowledge of a genderfluid race), not that they were made trans by the metacrisis. I'm with you on the 'polished' look thing. Doctor Who's charm is that it looks kinda naff and rough around the edges. The last era was a little too polished, and importantly, the score was too 'modern'. Clarus is right in that this feels like it's from 2008 still, but it incorporates a little more polish. It felt a bit naff in places (visually), and bit camp, and absolutely Saturday tea-time again.
To me, Rose being Trans has nothing to do with the doctor metacrisis. The script writers were just trying to find a way to include Rose in that speech. I don't think the term Trans fits the doctor as he doesn't transition between genders so much as become a different person altogether. The speech is describing the nature of the Doctor, not Rose.
As far as Rose I think the idea of the meta crisis made her somewhat gender fluid. It comes with it's own problems but I feel she was born male identified female later but she could wake up one day or go through something and suddenly decide to identify male. Like how the doctor usually uses male pronouns except when he regenerated as a female. She was nonbinary as she wasn't permanently one or the other in the way the doctor is. Less she was trans and more the gender she identified is is somewhat fluid. As I said that idea has more problems from a sociology standpoint but I thought that was what they were going for
Good reaction as usual. I didn’t really like this episode. I found it cheesy and boring most of the time. Liked some of the twists. Liked the meep twist, liked Rose making the stuffed animals out of the characters, liked Rose taking on some of the burden. Did not like the “let it go” part. 15 years of her life was wasted. I wanted something more substantial to resolve it. The next two episodes are great.
The “male presenting time lord” thing was dumb and very gender-prescriptivist (or whatever the term would be for saying capability comes from gender) It made me flashback to Wheel of Time book club and similar Robert Jordan “well you see men do this and women do that” talks.
I really, really appreciate your discussion on this episode. It makes me very curious how you'll feel about the next two. (Off to watch those reactions shortly!) Overall I feel pretty positively about them because they captured so much of the dynamic and baggage I wanted between the Doctor and Donna. However, your critiques are completely in line with mine. At first I loved how this episode was handling Rose and transgender issues in general--until at the end, a seemingly binary transgender girl was used as the metaphorical stand-in for being non-binary? I don't like it at all. It really feels like, while RTD is trying to be progressive, he still fails to truly understand what it means to be trans. Frustrating. The only thing I *will* say is that I didn't personally have the sense that they meant to imply that Rose's transness has to do with the Time Lord Metacrisis shenanigans. I could be wrong! But that's my take. I just feel like they were being a bit cheesy with the writing plus, unfortunately, not quite "getting" the trans reality. And the line about a male-presenting Doctor being unable to think of just "letting it go" is also wild and insulting to me, both for the character specifically but also again for gender politics. I don't mind critiquing men, sure, but the character is literally genderfluid and that joke felt bizarrely gender essentialist, even if it's a trans-inclusive gender essentialism, lol. I also feel very similarly about the increased budget and CGI etc. After feeling moved by the return of Tennant and Tate, loving their episodes despite their flaws, I tried watching the fourth special and just...felt hollow. As I always do with modern Who. So I think I'm going to stick with the earlier seasons of NuWho, which I still love for being so genuine, grounded, and full of heart. Sorry for the essay! This is the first place I've seen people talking about my precise feelings re: this episode. Thank you for such a thoughtful reaction and discussion
The Star Beast is not my favorite of the 3 specials. It definitely felt more like Dr Who than the entirety of Jodies seasons. The Trans stuff felt a little clumsy at points but generally was okay. I would say, based on the women I know, "just let it go" is the last thing they would ever do.
... I've literally never seen the TARDIS broken, other than when The Master turned it into a paradox machine. Sure, it has left, but that doesn't make it broken. It's a sentient being, it doesn't always stick around when there's trouble.
@@adamcarlson2192 The Eleventh Hour, The Pandorica Opens, The Doctors Wife, Let's Kill Hitler, Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS... all within the span of like 2 seasons.
why u deleted my comment it wasnt a flame on anything bad in contrary ... just said i loved how The Umbrella Academy as example did not make a big deal of it as we as society need to accept it as "Normal" and we dont need overworldy reasons for it to happen as it makes it feel less included for me
Oh, no way. Rose Tyler was the best companion all the way. I lived in Cardiff when the new Dr Who was being filmed there, way back in 2006. They filmed a lot of Dr Who in the huge park, Bute Park, in the middle of the city and I was cycling back from work going through Bute Park and saw them filming, Billie Piper was about 20 metres away. I can't remember if this was still with the other Dr before David Tennant who is one of very best of doctors (also including Tom Baker, who was excellent). One of the best episodes is when they first meet just after the other doctor had transformed, Christmas episode and the doctor spoke to Rose briefly. The episode when the doctor spoke to Rose for the last time after she had been thrown into another parallel universe was so emotional. They were clearly in love, I wish they would have carried on with that.
Wow, Nerdy has a pretty narrow and reactionary take on gender identity and presentation. People get to choose their pronouns, and they labels and they can be enby and identify as trans and use she/her pronouns. Be less of a gatekeeper!
I hate the way they Rose, talked down to the doctor I mean the Doctor is a being person who has been both an actual woman and a man and he's thousands of years old and knows this stuff better than humans and I don't know just don't disrespect my doctor I kind of checked out after that
Everybody talks about Tennant not aging. Somehow the fact that Catherine Tate looks literally younger is never mentioned.
They managed to make David look like he was old and scruffy and worn out.. almost like it was a character beat.
For me, the metacrisis has nothing to do with the fact that Rose is trans
But it has to do with her name
Donna named her (redacted) which means "healer" in ancient greek. So she more or less named her child "Doctor"
Then Rose came out as trans and she chosed a name form her shared memories from her mother with the metacrisis, Rose being one of the most important character for the Doctor at the time Donna became Doctor Donna
Her "I'm finally me" means for me that, now the power of the time lords being dissipated, she finally feel herself and not a mix of her mom's memories and hers
Yeah I don’t know where Nerdy got the idea that the metacrisis was the reason Rose was trans.
It’s just because Rose is Donna’s biological child.
Sooooo … it’s not just cos of .. u know …, Rose?
Everyone talks about the Disney money in this episode. I was recently at a Doctor Who convention where they admitted that they didn't have any of the Disney money yet at this point. It came about because we asked why this is the episode that Rachel Talalay was given, and not the Giggle. They said that Rachel is famous for making cheap budgets look expensive and this was the episode that was shipped to Disney to beg for sponsorship. So for that reason, this episode was Rachel Talalay on a regular Doctor Who budget, but that led to Disney throwing Disney money at them for the next 3 epsidoes.
When you mention about whether or not the Dr can drive, you should look back a few years (quite a few) to when Jon Pertwee played the Dr. between 1970-74, as he actually drove a car in many of the stories. It was a yellow car with the name Bessie, and was actually a 1954 Ford Popular 103E, just with additional customized prop bodywork.
"The Doctor can't drive"
So there was an entire series where he had a car instead of flying the TARDIS around. That's where we got Sarah Jane.
Just a quick mention. "The Star Beast" was adapted from a Fourth Doctor comic book story from 1980. When I initially saw the Meep and the Wrarth Warriors in the trailer, I had an idea of where the story was heading. I did like how they dealt with the Doctor/Donna problem that Donna initially had to forget her adventures with the Doctor.
It was also drawn by the amazing Dave Gibbons, who drew Watchmen, written by Alan Moore.
So fun fact although these are on Disney+ Disney did not give any money until the Christmas special. RTD talked about that
No. Totally agreed. The Binary/Non-Binary bit was a little ham-fisted and the "haha men can't let things go" - joke didn't really land and made the moment kinda crunchy. I also kinda got the impression that even though Fem non-binary is a thing, RTD didn't really quiiiiite understand and just wanted to use the "non-binary" hook for DoctorDonna's "Binary, Binary, Binary..." bit. Because yeah, up to that point, Rose just came off as a binary trans woman. Maybe if they had spent some time showing Rose having doubts or troubles with her fem presentation or identity, then a "OH! I'm not male OR female! I'm both and neither! I'm non-binary!" - moment would have worked better.
The Meep was voiced by Miriam Margolyes probably best known for playing Professor Sprout in the Harry Potter movies, her appearances on the Graham Norton show are comedy gold!
Glad to see you guys checking Doctor Who. There's no other show like it. Even when it's bad it's still Doctor Who, so let's keep the ride going as long as it can. :)
There's a handful of amazing episodes in Jodie Whittaker's era (Demons of the Punjab, It Takes You Away, The Haunting of Villa Diodati are on top of that list) and at least we'll always have those... but I wish you'd give Peter Capaldi's run anoher chance. I do consider series 9 and 10 to be one of the highlights of the show, but that's just me.
I also like the Dalek one and the Angels.
Jon Pertwee drove nearly all his episodes he was confined to earth
Regarding Rose, I think the metacrisis energy helped her be in touch with herself.
Also regarding the fix at the end, the first time Donna was being overwhelmed too quickly to consider other solutions. Once the energy was distributed across two people, Donna had time to consider what was happening and find a different solution in consciously allowing the energy to dissipate.
5:16 I just realized that Donna is very German. That’s exactly the kind of critique a German would say to someone, even a stranger.
24:15 "the TARDIS is lactose-intolerant" LOL ROFL
Yeah I also kind of petered out after the Rosa ep (watched two random ones after to check if the writing fixed itself)
Even as a Brit, I felt the writing in Rosa was too surface for such an important story of international renown.
Overall I was so pissed that the first female doctor got done dirty by bad writing by Chibnal.
@@EaterOfBaconSandwiches I messed up in my clarity, the chibnal comment was for the overall show since he was running and managing the direction and it shoulda been more careful cos of the historic first with Jodie as the Doctor,
I do keep meaning to try and power thru it on bbc iPlayer and watch what I missed using the power of knowing better writing is back with RTD but haven’t done it yet. Maybe in the gap between Xmas and the new season.
The Star Beast was based on a 1979 Marvel Dr. Who comic book also titled "The Star Beast" which featured The Fourth Doctor (Tom Baker) instead of The Fourteenth Doctor (David Tennant) and the character Rose was in place of Sharon from the comic.
Beep The Meep has become my favourite new Dr. Who villain.
There was a fun panel at JordanCon last year about Doctor Who, and one of the points someone brought up has stayed with me. They pointed out that they didn't trust Jodie/femaleDoctor to carry the show with only a Companion, so they gave her a "family." That showerunner really robbed her. I hope Russell finds a way to bring her back for a storyline of some kind.
You’re thinking about it way too hard David tennant, Matt Smith, and Peter Capaldi all had difficulty of letting go hence “I don’t want to go” so that’s what they were referring to. Also did you notice that the Doctor is acting out a little bit of each Doctor like when he first arrives and looks around like Christopher and the shield in the house is similar to Matt smith’s Christmas special with the snowman
I saw someone call these episodes forgettable monster of the week episodes, which couldn't be further off. Each of these could be THE monster of the week episode for a whole season. Like, the best of a season. Sure, they are pretty monster of the week, but they fucking SHINE.
I loved The Star Beast! It was great to see Tennant and Tate back again. Yasmin Finney is a great edition. I had a smile on my face the entire episode! It was just so much fun! I do wish Fourteen was a little less like Ten. He’s supposed to be a different incarnation. I thought there was something fishy going on with The Meep and the Wreath Warriors. But I didn’t call The Meep being the villain and the Wreath Warriors being like intergalactic criminal court police. Miriam Margolyes was excellent as The Meep. I really like the way they both reactivated the meta-crisis with the “binary, binary, binary” glitch repetition and then solved the meta-crisis with it being male, female, binary, and non-binary. And that Rose inherited the meta-crisis. It was very reminiscent of River having Time Lord powers. But the meta-crisis solution of “let it go” just felt a little anticlimactic. The new TARDIS looks a little too clean and clinical. The TARDIS is alive. It should have a personality. And they are putting that Disney money to work with those fantastic VFX. If we do get that UNIT spin-off, I hope Shirley is in it. Also, apparently it was David who suggested Fourteen run around the TARDIS but he was regretting it by the eighth take.
I love that the Doctor feels free to announce how much he loves different humans in this stage, it's beautiful!
Re: Trans/Non-binary Rose.... I didn't read it that way... I read it as that metacrisis solution was possible *because* she was non-binary, not that she was non-binary because of the metacrisis problem... and that "clearing" the metacrisis made her finally feel like herself
Nice to see you two reacting to these. I was happy to see Doctor/Donna again. Those two were so good together.
I know this episode was controversial for reasons. I appreciate that these subjects were mentioned, but not forced down our throat. It felt closer to normal life vs making a statement. Like a fair amount of Jodie's episodes, the writing always felt so judgy or high and mighty.
Look forward to next week.
15:34 classic 3rd Doctor in the 1970s drove cars like a boss, including a classic roadster and a levitating 'WhoMobile'. He also implemented full remote control on the roadster, controlled via the sonic of course. Eat your hearts out Tony Stark and that vile man-child whose name I will not speak here.
15:35 Doctor 3 was trapped on earth for a long while, so he actually did quite a bit of regular driving. 😁
This did what Doctor Who had failed to do under chiball, it made me feel something.
They probably thought if they made the doctor not be able to drive it would contradict classic who.. plus we wouldn't get a clip of Matt Smith driving a motorcycle up a building😂
Big love from the UK, waited all day for your reaction! Can’t wait for the next two episodes, I think you’re gonna be blown away! ❤
Many thanks, Nerdy & Clarus! ⏳ Rachel Talalay directed this one.
My head cannon is different. I think because there was two minds with two hearts was the reason they were both able to shake off the meta-crisis TimeLord Doctor. Donna couldn’t do it by herself hence the memory wipe by The Doctor to save Donna.
The 3rd Doctor had an automobile called Bessie and a hovercraft (the cast called the Whomobile).
Just to say about the Doctor driving the 3rd Doctor (Jon Pertwee the one I started with)did alot of being marooned on Earth so David Tennant's Doctor would know how to drive,great reaction anyway.
This Tardis definitely feels like factory settings just bigger and I think it's a good choice bc they are essentially starting over and now we got that Disney money lmao
You need to watch the Pertwee era to see the Doctor driving. Pertwee drive everything!
You guys have to remember who is running the show now. Its RTD. He will use a daft but vaguely plausible explanation to undo all of Donna's issues. We're all going to go "huh? that both make and doesn't make sense" and move on.
Catherine Tate is one of the nicest people I've ever met at ComicCon. But no one was nicer than Sean Austin.
fyi the doctor who backlog is on Max for the forseeable future. if you wanna go back and see all of Capaldi's run thats where you get it. The stuff from the Star Beast on is whats on Disney Plus at least until Max's license for the backlog expires.
edit: This isn't the DIsney Plus budget. That doesn't kick in until Ncuti's first season. The four specials were filmed before the Disney deal went through.
We actually are getting a new Dr Who spinoff about Unit.
The TARDIS is actually alive, and goes where it feels the heebie-jeebies sometimes, messing with the Doctors head and annoying the companion who is supposed to be on their way home... It's a running theme...
Tardis at the end of this: oh no, my new controls, now I have to go crazy about this and not let Donna go home immediately oops (sarcasm)
Tardis next episode: oop I girlbossed too close to the sun, gotta go!
Oh I am glad you are doing this! I was going to go in discord to request this!!!
From this first episode I wasn't fully sold yet on Russell's new era either, but Im glad you're gonna continue cause at this point post-special-three I'm feeling quite reinvigorated. The Star Beast does feel like a means to an end to get things going again, and I agree the doctor donna stuff felt a bit rushed but with three specials to get everything done it makes sense that they did it that way. Part of me wonders whether this episode was purposefully very upfront with trying to work a trans character into the plot so that it was inescapable to people returning to the show. The idea that Rose is trans as a result of the meta-crisis didnt sit well with me either, but in the end the episode still focuses on how its great that shes trans and is getting support from her family, and whatever the case I'm very glad of trans representation.
Love your reactions as always. The specials are fun and I am tentatively looking forward to seeing what we get with Ncuti (though Eccleston will always be my fav Doctor.)
On the weird non-binary stuff : RTD has always tackled queer stuff in an odd way. I just accept that we all have different perspectives and his is kinda wonky, though not malicious. I also think the Tardis put a coffee maker up front knowing Donna didn't want to travel again, but would spill it the coffee and be forced to go. The Tardis also looks like that, if I remember correctly, because David Tennant wanted it to be big enough to run around in. RTD said he regretted making it that size once they actually started filming in it. The details on that might be wrong.
"They're too Saladfingers" is exactly what I thought to the point i had to look it up and realize they made more episodes from when last I saw.
I'm a big fan of both dr who and the expanse, so glad to see you check these episodes out.
I think it was Moffat that described the show as an experiment of sorts. You can go from space adventure to historical settings from one episode to the next. That also naturally means that some episodes just won't be great in every episode, because when you experiment more it can be hit or miss. But when it works, it can be really really good.
And personally i found the Star beast to be the weakest of the specials. I thought the story was more generic and relied a lot on nostalgia. I get why they would start that way, but the following ones to me are more why i love Dr who
If you have the time, you should catch the Capaldi ones! There are some really really good episodes there. One of my absolute favorite episodes of the entirety of Doctor Who is also in his era. (Those who watched, you know the one.)
Basically the Let It Go line is supposed to be a dig at men saying we can't let go of power or something
The second doctor drove a car called bessie. This story is from a Dr Who Comic and apparently the young boy was a character in the story.
Third Doctor (Jon Pertwee).
Sorry, you are correct. Was yellow with black trims
I knew someone who spilled coffee and killed 3 keyboards within a year.
i also thought the cgi of the town being decimated with 0 deaths its a typical doctor who trope that i have huge problems with. the stakes always have to be massive and with this they just hint an undo button which makes no sense. similar to how the end of jodis era they explain that earth is the center of this cataclysmic event which was wiping out the universe..... so they stopped it just in time for earth to not be consumed so the entire universe was literally wiped out yet chibnals sloppy writing decided to say it was just half the universe but thats not what we were told or show and they also showed that event would have wiped out all the past villains of the show that are always recurring. i dont think its a spoiler to talk about that considering you havent seen it because either way its referenced.
Technically he FLEW a school buss
Jodies second and third seasons were great tbh
17:59 Newton's 3rd Law would like to have a word.
The Meep is practical, other then the eyes and the mouth.
the Meep was a costume
27:45 is my main issue with this ep... Its a fun one overall. Seeing everyone again was great,i wasnt a massive fan of the Doctor Donna quickfix; kinda devalues the end of season 4 for me. But yeah the "men cant let things go" thing felt a bit like RTD trying to provoke people, which is not something i really wanted in Doctor Who. Its different when an episode tackles a subject and a touchy conversation happens but out of the blue statements arent it
Mirium Margoles voicing The Meep wasnt on my bingo card for the anniversary but ill take it
After watching more, Nerdy NEEDS to watch Capaldis seasons. The character work for The Doctor, Clara, Bill and Missy throughout those 3 seasons is the best in the entire reboot imo.
There are still surprises ahead.
39:26 I could not possibly comment
The whole let it go part was a dig at men for always trying to keep hold of there power. Unlike women who can just let power go. Yet to meet a woman who can just let things go.
2:33 she's right, you're wrong.
We have seen the base Tardis and that's not what it looks like, (in old who but also a few times in nuwho like in hell bent in s9) sure the mainly white inside is a nod to it, bringing many old elements back. and the "let it go" moment didn't ruin the episode for me but it wasn't great.
It was a city bus, not a school bus.
The 3rd Doctor drove Bessie all the time.
i didnt think the nonbinary bit was implying that the metacrisis was the reason rose was trans. though now that you say it i can imagine RTD being that tone deaf in trying to make a political statement on a subject matter he doesnt know much about. but then why would a trans actress was ok with the lines so you would think if they were trying to send a message and be inclusive the trans person would be part of the conversation as to how to go about delivering the info.
and now we have made it so Davros isnt in a wheel chair because tv and movies has a history of handicap people being portrayed as villains so we retconed Davros in a special most people wont see. apparently RTD thinks its not ok for a villain to be handicapped in anyway which is why we also have a bad ass unit agent in a wheel chair in this episode.
Hi trans woman here, shut up the episode was fine. We don't need anti woke writhing about the most minor shit here.
I really enjoyed the specials but this one is probably the weakest of the three. It's like they just needed to get the DoctorDonna stuff out of the way. I think this episode handled the trans stuff really well, especially the conversation between Donna and Sylvia, but I think RTD is still a bit confused on what non-binary means. And that "male presenting" line seems like him trying to do one of those on the edge kinda sexist jokes Moffat used to do but it just came off not jokey at all. So that line and the roads closing up are the only things that bugged me in this episode. But if the heavier use of CGI is putting you off...brace yourself.
I'm glad I have a friend who made me watch jodie's era with them bc I might have not finished it otherwise. There's stuff to like but it was the weakest point in the show. But I would still recommend watching Flux! It's jodie's last season and only six episodes.
I think I'd have bought the "let it go" moment if they'd backed it up with a psuedo-scientific reason. (Time, splitting it up made it easier to process it and expunge, or something). Considering how vocal RTD has been in explaining elements of these specials, I don't think that's the intended way to take the 'non-binary' thing. I think it was just in that moment Rose understood that they were non-binary in that moment (because Time Lords are kinda fundamentally both and gained that knowledge of a genderfluid race), not that they were made trans by the metacrisis.
I'm with you on the 'polished' look thing. Doctor Who's charm is that it looks kinda naff and rough around the edges. The last era was a little too polished, and importantly, the score was too 'modern'. Clarus is right in that this feels like it's from 2008 still, but it incorporates a little more polish. It felt a bit naff in places (visually), and bit camp, and absolutely Saturday tea-time again.
To me, Rose being Trans has nothing to do with the doctor metacrisis. The script writers were just trying to find a way to include Rose in that speech. I don't think the term Trans fits the doctor as he doesn't transition between genders so much as become a different person altogether. The speech is describing the nature of the Doctor, not Rose.
As far as Rose I think the idea of the meta crisis made her somewhat gender fluid. It comes with it's own problems but I feel she was born male identified female later but she could wake up one day or go through something and suddenly decide to identify male. Like how the doctor usually uses male pronouns except when he regenerated as a female. She was nonbinary as she wasn't permanently one or the other in the way the doctor is. Less she was trans and more the gender she identified is is somewhat fluid. As I said that idea has more problems from a sociology standpoint but I thought that was what they were going for
DoctorDonna was the end of the fourth season.
Good reaction as usual.
I didn’t really like this episode. I found it cheesy and boring most of the time. Liked some of the twists. Liked the meep twist, liked Rose making the stuffed animals out of the characters, liked Rose taking on some of the burden. Did not like the “let it go” part. 15 years of her life was wasted. I wanted something more substantial to resolve it.
The next two episodes are great.
Final 3 episodes are just fine...
Like other doctors done dirty. 13 was a great doctor who had bad writing so never managed to have a great time. very similar to 6
The “male presenting time lord” thing was dumb and very gender-prescriptivist (or whatever the term would be for saying capability comes from gender)
It made me flashback to Wheel of Time book club and similar Robert Jordan “well you see men do this and women do that” talks.
It was 15 years
Woot! Hope it's good enough for you to stick with it.
Yeah, those Greedo fingers are cursed.
(I am commenting way too much on this, less edibles adam)
I agree. I don't understand about the trans thing near the end.
I really, really appreciate your discussion on this episode. It makes me very curious how you'll feel about the next two. (Off to watch those reactions shortly!) Overall I feel pretty positively about them because they captured so much of the dynamic and baggage I wanted between the Doctor and Donna.
However, your critiques are completely in line with mine. At first I loved how this episode was handling Rose and transgender issues in general--until at the end, a seemingly binary transgender girl was used as the metaphorical stand-in for being non-binary? I don't like it at all. It really feels like, while RTD is trying to be progressive, he still fails to truly understand what it means to be trans. Frustrating. The only thing I *will* say is that I didn't personally have the sense that they meant to imply that Rose's transness has to do with the Time Lord Metacrisis shenanigans. I could be wrong! But that's my take. I just feel like they were being a bit cheesy with the writing plus, unfortunately, not quite "getting" the trans reality.
And the line about a male-presenting Doctor being unable to think of just "letting it go" is also wild and insulting to me, both for the character specifically but also again for gender politics. I don't mind critiquing men, sure, but the character is literally genderfluid and that joke felt bizarrely gender essentialist, even if it's a trans-inclusive gender essentialism, lol. I also feel very similarly about the increased budget and CGI etc.
After feeling moved by the return of Tennant and Tate, loving their episodes despite their flaws, I tried watching the fourth special and just...felt hollow. As I always do with modern Who. So I think I'm going to stick with the earlier seasons of NuWho, which I still love for being so genuine, grounded, and full of heart.
Sorry for the essay! This is the first place I've seen people talking about my precise feelings re: this episode. Thank you for such a thoughtful reaction and discussion
L for not mentioning the intro
Wilf...
The Star Beast is not my favorite of the 3 specials. It definitely felt more like Dr Who than the entirety of Jodies seasons. The Trans stuff felt a little clumsy at points but generally was okay. I would say, based on the women I know, "just let it go" is the last thing they would ever do.
... I've literally never seen the TARDIS broken, other than when The Master turned it into a paradox machine. Sure, it has left, but that doesn't make it broken. It's a sentient being, it doesn't always stick around when there's trouble.
The TARDIS has always been broken. That's why it looks like a police box, it should be able to change appearance
You've never seen the tardis broken? It breaks all the time what are you on about
@@ImBigDave79 the chameleon circuit has been broken since the first ever episode, that's a feature at that point.
@@SorchaSublime and yet no one has an example...
@@adamcarlson2192 The Eleventh Hour, The Pandorica Opens, The Doctors Wife, Let's Kill Hitler, Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS... all within the span of like 2 seasons.
why u deleted my comment it wasnt a flame on anything bad in contrary ... just said i loved how The Umbrella Academy as example did not make a big deal of it as we as society need to accept it as "Normal" and we dont need overworldy reasons for it to happen as it makes it feel less included for me
Don't trust an uwu monster
Oh, no way. Rose Tyler was the best companion all the way. I lived in Cardiff when the new Dr Who was being filmed there, way back in 2006. They filmed a lot of Dr Who in the huge park, Bute Park, in the middle of the city and I was cycling back from work going through Bute Park and saw them filming, Billie Piper was about 20 metres away. I can't remember if this was still with the other Dr before David Tennant who is one of very best of doctors (also including Tom Baker, who was excellent). One of the best episodes is when they first meet just after the other doctor had transformed, Christmas episode and the doctor spoke to Rose briefly. The episode when the doctor spoke to Rose for the last time after she had been thrown into another parallel universe was so emotional. They were clearly in love, I wish they would have carried on with that.
The writing for Jodie's doctor stayed good throughout her entire run, y'all missed out.
Wow, Nerdy has a pretty narrow and reactionary take on gender identity and presentation. People get to choose their pronouns, and they labels and they can be enby and identify as trans and use she/her pronouns.
Be less of a gatekeeper!
I hate the way they Rose, talked down to the doctor I mean the Doctor is a being person who has been both an actual woman and a man and he's thousands of years old and knows this stuff better than humans and I don't know just don't disrespect my doctor I kind of checked out after that
Womp womp