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One of the biggest reason why people realized gems were broken were Z-Moves in gen 7. Once people realized how impactful they were, more people tried gems in gen 5.
Z-Moves didn't make people realize how absurd gems are. It's the recent culmination of people realizing that gems make overpowered pokemon even more broken.
Nothing wrong with getting the maximum power possible with the one-time use of a gem from a respected STAB type of your move of choice, am I right? LOL
Weavile was actually not that common Cloyster was but there were also breloom, Latios, volcarona, etc Though this is not to say weavile was bad or anything, just it was a little under the radar
There is a reason why gen 5 has so much shit banned in ou. By far the biggest power creep in pokemon history, not even zacian or galar forms come close.
Flying type + Flying Gem + Acrobatics = OH DEAR LORD THE DAMAGE!!! Yes, Acrobatics gets its X2 power bonus after using Flying Gem. Keep in mind Archeops has 140 Base Attack and can learn Acrobatics.
Thats insane, it was pretty common to give Archeops a Flying Gem when Gen 5 was current since people (myself included) assumed that it just helped boost the power of item-held Acrobatics (making it a 82 power move). I had no idea until now basically that it boosted the power of unburdened acrobatics, that's nuts.
You cannot tell me Gems affecting all hits of multihit moves was a little known mechanic. Grass Gem Bullet Seed Breloom was run a ton in the BW era, when Showdown wasn't even popular yet and Pokémon Online was still relevant xD
Funnily enough the gems got nerfed in gen 6 (x1.5 to x1.3), but were still in the game files (you just could not obtain them legally). They also added a fairy gem to the game files, which was also unobtainable. Additionally, XY also contained the Lati@s mega stones, which arent obtainable either (until ORAS).
I'd like to think Gems were ultimately reworked into Z-Moves, and expanded it to also take benefit on non-attacking moves at the cost of being less abundant and not working on moves like Acrobatics or multi-hit moves quite as well. Though that also got the axe in the Gen 8 so who knows.
@@Walrus5 i think that a good idea would to have gems be the same as in gen 5, only they dont affect mutli hit moves and they tell your opponent that you have them, kind of like air balloon.
One of my personal favorites was Archeops with Acrobatics and the flying gem, because it was STAB, plus it would Consume the Gem and buff acrobatics, but by the time the move actually comes out the gem has been consumed so you get the doubled base power of acrobatics, multiplied by 1.5x, alongside STAB. It basically made my Archeops a pokemon I would be able to switch in to a huge threat that I outsped and just Delete them.
I think lessons learned from New gens driving innovation in old gens is also a thing here. When Gen 5 was current, a 1 time boost did come off as less important/powerful impaired to consistent items performing throughout the game- culturally, used to older gens and dealing with more broken shit, the singles player base wasn’t as a tune to the boost value as later players who grew up with Gen 7 and the massive hype/power/restrictions of Z moves. I think Gen 7 informed Gen 5 play retrospectively, just as Gen 3-5 gets a lot more Knock Off use and Gen 2 a lot more Thief use after Gen 6 did more to inform players of the value of removing items through forced item loss. Rise of Gen 4 Clefable is also later-Gen informed imo.
You’re absolutely correct. I remember King’s Rock being extremely popular because a timely flinch could change the battle completely. And people in general were more focused on how to counter the meta and figure out ways to beat other weather teams
BKC after hearing this news: "Everything is going according to the plan. Soon BW Ou will be a fair and balanced competitive metagame, all without me needing to throw a direct coup and go dictator mode on the tier." BKC is Emperor Palpatine for Smogon, confirmed. Memes aside, I love Gen 5 but what drugs were GF on when they made some of the stuff in the games. From Drizzle/Drought on normal pokemon, Gems, Regenerator, etc
I think BW was affected by it being the first gen developed while VGC was up and running. Gamefreak or TPC (probably the latter) likely wanted big and explosive matches that would catch the eyes of casuals who would normally have no interest in competitive pokemon. So you get stuff like nuke mons, broken set up sweepers, gems, weather wars, trick room spam, etc. Makes the game a lot more fun on a casual spectator level, even if competitiors might find it a little frustrating.
As someone who wasn't around the competitive scene until generation 6, I always assumed that gems were 1.3x like how modern normal gem functions. Do you think that if gems were ever back in the game with the modern 1.3x boost similar to how normal gem currently functions, that they'd be allowable?
I think you'd see some niche Gem usage, at least some Flying Gem Acrobatics, and/or Gem + Unburden. Essentially, what made Gems so good was that had the reward of a Choice item with a few added benefits, while not having enough drawbacks to compensate. Life Orb's drawback is not nearly as harsh as a Choice item's, or even a Gem arguably, so you'd rather just have your moves be 30% stronger at all times. Edit: I think you could make a case for Gems being decent in the lower tiers of Sw/Sh, where everyone and their grandpa is packing Poltergeist or Knock Off. A lot of Pokemon down there run no item to avoid these moves, so why not use a conumable Life Orb that you can activate at any time?
@@grunkleg.2934 i mean, some people run their psychic types itemless to avoid poltergeist damage and reduce knock off damage. Having an easily consumable item would be an improvement. Édit: you said that already. Haha sorry
I was around bw since the beginning. Gems were actually kind of a gimmick at the start. I mostly just remember normal gem explosion. It wasn't until late bw2 when sd rock gem terrak popped up as a way to beat slowbro among other things like latios etc. I think the late meta developments might have also had the benefit of hindsight after gen 7 taught us the value of a one time nuke
I mean yes, but BW Ou specifically has plenty of extremely powerful offensive threats that can destroy your team if you dont prep for them. Like the main complaint about the tier is that there are so many threats that the meta itself turns into a matchup fish.
@@tomatogenesis complex bans are avoided.... gems are the problem so get rid of the problem..... it could bite them in the future and make tiering a pain in the future
Oh wow so that's why only normal gen survived past gen 5 (and even then, very nerfed)? Damn. I always liked them as an item and while I knew of how much they beefed up attacks, its effect also applying on multi-hit moves as a whole is news to me.
Well *this* is probably not why it was removed It was removed bc of its effect on gen 5 VGC, and it wasn’t because of gem boosted multi hit moves But generally, yeah it’s bc it was a bit too strong (then they added mega kang…so idk maybe GF is just constantly high)
@@GravityIsFalling yeah gems were all the rage in VGC, and GF only really cares about what's breaking their competitive metagame, so they can balance VGC. They saw how good gems were there and said "whoops yeah we messed up, we'll just remove them in X/Y so we don't have to worry about this again"
I remember as a kid using rock gem Sceptile on showdown a couple times. I was really bad at teambuilding ofc but I think sceptile's hidden ability raised it's speed when an item was consumed, so it would come in, lure out whatever check, and rock gem rock slide would do a good bit and if it wasn't finished it would get outsped
Gem + Unburden was the only time I remember seeing it often, especially when you could only use Normal Gem. Fake Out Hitmonlee was quite common I think. Didn't realise it broke Cloyster with link moves.
I can see Freezai abusing Gems once he starts to do BW and BW2 Littlelocke or just outright ban it cause you can litterally farm these things with ease (only if you're lucky enough to get the right type though)
@@sptflcrw8583 And other thing i noticed is for example: a pokemon with dual typing is bad, but when one of the types (or an ability) gets an immunity for a weakness of the other type it gets a good niche in that monotype.
Exactly, something like Cradily doesn't stand out usually but on mono grass teams it provides an answer to fire, flying, bug and poison, that's crazily powerful.
This video makes me wonder about the new mechanic in scarlet and violet, terrastilizing. The idea is that the Pokémon, till the end of the battle or till it’s knocked out, gets a boost to a specific type. It could be it’s own type or another one entirely, and while im not sure how strong exactly is the boost it likely would be a STAB boost (1.5x boost). I initially thought this new mechanic wouldn’t be broken in competitive but maybe it would be. After all it could mean powerful setup sweepers get access to nuke stab moves, or even get stab on a third type with no drawbacks, that could just make the competitive scene very chaotic, maybe not as much as dynamax, but it certainly is more powerful than even the gems were in gen 5, and possibly even more than the one time z moves. There’s still a lot we don’t know about the new mechanic, so we’ll have to wait to see.
I truly miss the raw power of Flying Gem Acrobatics. Used it on Archeops and blew my friends away. Shout outs to Lickilicky’s Normal Gem Explosions too.
Man gems are honestly my favorite mechanic of gen 5. Sad to see them gone not only in gen 6, but now on Showdown as well. Wish they would make a return. After all, someone at Gamefreak looked at Zaician and thought "yeah send it boys 😎 " and then went a step further with some of the DLC stuff. I'll never understand Gamefreak's weird thought process. I think they should have just made it to where you can only have 1 on a team and it nullifies any others you have after usage. But with that in mind, I think keeping it at 1.5x power boost would be fine. After that it's just another run of the mill Shell Smash Cloyster or Beat Up Weavile. Regarding the power boost for 1 hit vs 5 hits can be debated though.
complex bans for limiting smth for 1 per team... is usually avoided... bp was made like that was still uncompetetive and had to go through many readjustments. Volc is still broken with gems and so is cloyster and its still a guessing game ..
@@athath2010 nah gems are vulnerable to Trick, Switcharoo, Covet, Knock Off, Imprison, etc, and can still miss. Also only buff offensive moves. You're oversimplifying it.
Bkc made a great detailed video on the rise of Moltres. Pretty much the same thing applies to Charizard who has weaker stats but access to focus punch to bypass Blissey
@@adrianclamens6679 We always new Focus Punch though. Its a tale as old as time. Por que? Focus Punch in Gen 3 Ou? And I recall him playing zard in gen3ou with breloom years ago, not so much as officially moving into ou.
For those wondering why not ban Z moves as they are literally better Gems. The answer is simple, you can run multiple Gems on the same team. It's not the same but imagine multiple Z-moves on a team? Yikes. One thing I saw people use was Rock Gem Terrakion OHKOing Phys Def Lando T after Rocks and Swords Dance despite Intimidate. Lando T to this day is THE BEST check to Terrak in the game and it could be bypassed like that. Gems were mad broken.
Z moves themselves got a lot of criticism as well. IIRC there were even talks of them being banworthy at one point in SM/USUM because of they made mons like Kartana or Magearna even dumber.
@@theimpersonator7086 As well as being the only generation where Landorus-T was genuinely banworthy because the classical "just bring a grass type" doesn't work against flynium Z. Z-moves in general are just broken but at least they're kinda limited. Gems are LESS BROKEN BUT they can be in every member of your team.
@@N12015 then there's d max,which gives you 3 turns of z-move level attacks that can give you stat boosts at the same time. We probably would have had banned to ubers gyarados at some point if that was still around. Actually have anyway made a alternate timeline list of likely bans in the smogon keeps dynamax timeline.
Who says gems on multiple mons is a hood thing? A team full of gemed up mons would suck. Only a small handful of gen 5 ou mons had viable gem sets. This ban was so soft.
Also the base power is a set increase and does take the full base power of the move into the damage calculation, unlike z moves. A Z Draco Meteor is gonna be 150 base power, a Dragon Gem one is gonna be 210. A Z Icicle Spear will be 120 base power, a Ice Gem Icicle Spear 5 Hit will be 187.5
I've known for a bit that gems were banned, but I had always thought that it happened way earlier, especially considering that game freak removed them next generation.
Even at 1.3x, Gems were a godsend in the challenge runs I've done of Unbound. My Monobug First Stage run made considerable use of them- being able to boost one attack with no caveats is great when that one attack knocks out a key threat. And Unbound lowers the damage to 1.3x since it's got Gen 8 mechanics! Gen 5 gems were utter lunacy.
Ironically reading all of these comments about how Gems should've been complex banned just made me wonder why some complex bans still exist. If banning Drizzle isn't a possibility because novelty is apparently more important than balance and no Swift Swim user has a positive impact on the tier (or any impact for that matter) why bother keeping the latter around? The same question applies for Chlorophyll. Aldaron's proposal sounds like it belongs with RSE UU's recently removed NFE clause.
Because getting tiering changes through in old gens can be a bureaucratic mess to deal with, especially in old gens, so rather than spend a ton of time trying to ban Swift Swim and Chlorophyll and changing very little as a result, the council (I presume) would just prefer to stick with the current system and save themselves a lot of time.
I used to run a hybrid cloyster with icicle spear, rock blast, shell smash, and ice shard back in gen 5. For the item it used to have a kings rock, than either an ice or rock gem, and in gen 7 its running a herb set to counteract shell smash defence drop.
Now how are my Bullet Punches in competitive Gen 5 OU gonna hurt huh? My traditional swords dance set can only do so much! Steel Gem helps out my Bullet Punches turn into a NUKE against my enemies!
There is a clear connection between Gems and the Terastal Crystals. They probably banned them after Gen 5 to better flesh out the idea later (right now)
i’ve never once in my life played pokémon showdown. but goddamn do i love your videos. unfortunately they are the sole reasoning why i will never have enough confidence to play showdown in fear of being absolutely embarrassed lmaooo
just play random battles to start so you dont have to teambuild immediately. ultimately you want to build up to that (which is the most fun part imo) but you can get the basics from whichever gen u like most’s random battles. if you want to play ou then resources exist on smogons ruins of alph for all past gen tiers and are everywhere for current gen
@@bokaytrebuchet you don't need to play rdb if you already played the game. It is more useful to ask help in specific rooms and to watch matches of high elo players
Back in 2012 I had a top 50 ou team, but I never used a gem in ou. Dragon gem Draco in vgc, for sure. But in long weather wars, it didn’t seem worth it.
"What if Z moves took some steroids?" Jokes aside, being able to use more than one gem is really what breaks them. Game Freak was actually ahead of us, this time. Good job
i think its less-so the amount of gems as it is the specific circumstances that gen 5 ou has that make them overwhelming, there are better/more defensive options that arent feasible in the volatile gen 5 metagame in gen 7. if they were in gen 7 they mightve also been broken (idk) but in gen 5 they made like 4ish specific pokémon overrun their only defensive checks. if u wanted to check both psychic and bug gem volc then u needed two diff pokemon to do it for example same goes for all the diff 50/50 gem sets. the main issue is all of the adjustments you could make that help you win against gem hyper offense teams made you far worse off against both opposing sand teams and opposing rain teams (the other two team formats in the meta) so u literally cant build a team that matches up okay into all of those structures, making for a really flashy game of rock paper scissors.
Holy crap, how did I never realize the combination of gems with multi hit moves? I remember people only using king’s rock or white herb on cloyster but an ice gem sounds absolutely absurd on it
I only got into competitive Pokemon content after gen 6 so hearing about gen 5 being host to a bunch of migraine inducing broken strategies feels like someone describing the wild west to me.
I remember thinking they seemed so useless in-game and I sorta assumed the same applied to competitive, since I never got into competitive till Gen 6 when they weren’t really around anymore. Surprising to hear how busted they were but it makes sense
I think the gems should be turned into a single item that just powers up the first move you use in battle. That way you cant use multiple gems and you cant save a certain gem boosted move for later on certain pokemon
I hope gems come back someday, they were really fun to use and I like them better than Z-Moves. I feel that there's already so much power creep nowadays that gems wouldn't be as crazy in current metas compared to BW.
Considering both are broken mechanics and both generations still have enough defining aspects to separate them from the rest...the tiers are better off without them
It’s a good thing then that Galar is such a shitty region that it made people realize how overpowered Gems were by getting people more used to the idea that regional mechanics do not always work in competitive. That and Z-Moves in Alola.
The entire meta balances on a hinge, and every team you make is vulnerable to getting wrecked by some broken threat. Then the broken threats get that one hit to blast past the normal checks and he'll breaks loose, it's all just match-up fishing noe
I remember back in the day no one seemed to ever use any gem except for flying with acrobatics. I remember when Gen 7 first showed off z moves thinking isn't this the same as gems? There's no way this will be useful
Gen 6-wise, Talonflame would also be a huge winner - its bulky BU Acrobatics set can actually now run an item that makes it can fire of something that basically is almost as strong as CB Brave Bird with zero drawbacks
Huh. I figured PvP was where gems were used since I never used held items that get used up in the main game. The attack boost didn’t feel worth it when I would have to get replacements over and over. I know that isn’t the case in PvP since the held item returns after the battle, but I also don’t really do competitive PvP, so I still don’t take it seriously enough to consider using them.
Don't know how competitive it was because you know, casual player, but I remember really enjoying the power boost a flying gem gave Acrobatics because the move would check it no item was there after the gem was consumed.
Now that I think about it, gems are returning in Scarlet/Violet as terrastalizing forms but with much needed concessions, such as losing dual typing and being limited to one terra mon per match. I completely forgot Gems existed pass Gen VI. I always found their spawns in caves way too rare and found sand and rain much more impactful to the Gen V meta. To hear sleep has been banned in Gen V just goes to show why status moves were so heavily nerfed in future gens.
I don't understand how come gems affecting all hits of a multi-hit move is news to anyone? The description even says "move" not "instance of damage". I don't understand how someone could assume otherwise?
I feel like it'd be interesting to look at what might change if gems ever came back. I feel like in their current state, they'd probably only wind up seeing niche use. There's clearly still value for things like Acrobatics and Unburden, but beyond that, do they really offer enough to justify them over a type item or Life Orb?
It’s kinda funny how many changes they made to make the game more competitive focused in the multiplayer aspect but gen 5 is seen as the gen that didn’t really do much. I guess it was that? Gen 2 added weather and items, gen 3 added abilities and doubles, gen 4 added the physical special split, and gen 6 onwards added a new battle mechanic each time. None of the new battle types in gen 5 took off but hidden abilities and competitive revamp are sure something huh?
I find it fitting that the region based off of mainland America is always at war combating the new broken threat in a never-ending gauntlet and the opinions are the most divided there. It wouldn’t be America without a life-altering, existentialist, bitter war about how to do anything, wouldn’t it?
i think the biggest problem with gems is that BW OU was Always a problematic meta which died and Need a rebuilt After a lot of time so yeah gems which could have been as ok, now are being seriously considered bad
“Gems are broken we must remove them because it isn’t a good idea to allow a Pokémon to have a one time power boost to a particular attack.” (creates Z crystals)
gamefreak nerfing gems in gen 6 and then only keeping the normal gem obtainable in the game is such a strange game design choice. what's even weirder abt this is that there is a completely functional fairy gem in the game. idk if they were saving them for events or something?
I don't see the reason to feel so strongly against this item that is of such little consequence. Yeah, it's a bit weird that it's the only type to remain, but calling it stupid makes it sound like it has a negative impact on the integrity of the game. It's just another niche item and I don't see what's so wrong with that, it's cool to see people use niche items for surprise extremely specific smart strategies
In the games I've actually played, the game will shove a Normal Gem at me and I'll think "what the hell do I do with this?" and never use it. It's an item I cannot replace once it's used (except through literal hours or work in the battle tower, my god...), so if it does actually have a meaningful use, I'd better not use it now. So I use it never.
So how effective would a Linoone with Belly Drum, Espeed and a Normal Gem be? If you could set up previously with a mom that sleeps and mementos, giving Linoone the free Belly Drum turn? Could it one-shot everything with the 5.3x attack STAB priority move?
The thing is BW is already such a mach up meta game. Some teams are always going to be worse off against others like Sand>Rain Rain>Hyper Offense Hyper Offense>Sand. You can try to cover as much with any one team but no team is perfect so you just have to cover as much as possible. Gems throw off this balance. Suddenly your only check against volcorona T-tar loses to a +1 bug gem bug buzz and you lose the game. Or suddenly Scizor can't beat Latios with spikes and then alakazam and reuniclus run wild. Its way too much to deal with already and now gems pile on even more problems.
If one of the main reasons that Gems were so broken was because of your ability to have multiple Gems on your team, couldn't they have instead put a clause so you could only have 1 Gem on your team, like how you can only have 1 Z-Crystal? This would make predicting the Gem more rewarding in the same way predicting a Z-Move is, while still allowing players to break walls with Gems. And since Gems are only usable on offensive moves, this would make Gems generally weaker than Z-Moves as those could be used to get boosts as well as attack, and yet Z-Crystals aren't banned in Gen 7. As it stands currently, how has banning Gems affected the meta? Are defensive strategies the new meta, now that they don't have to worry about Gems breaking their walls too easily? Would letting people use 1 Gem be too strong because of multi-hit moves? If only a very specific set of Pokémon are the problem with allowing Gems to be brought back to 1 per team, couldn't they move, for example, Gem-Cloyster to Ubers if they want to use a Gem, the same way Pokémon like Gothitelle get the boot to AG if they want to use Shadow Tag?
Sleep Clause was a clause in Pokémon stadium so they allow it purely because it was allowed in the actual cartridge game. Complex bans also do not make sense if you want to really get to the root of the problem. For example, if you have a Pokémon that does too well, is it the ability, item, playstyle (like rain or hail) or Pokémon that is broken? Usually it is the Pokémon, so figuring that out helps keep a non-ravaged meta of people arbitrarily deciding Pokémon are viable for this tier and not that tier because of attachment to a Pokémon. Of course, when the outcome is effectively long-term mechanic shifting, you then wonder why you bother with “not allowing complex bans” since whatever is being done are basically shifting how the game is played just as haphazardly as a complex ban.”, but even more fundamentally than a Pokémon arbitrarily being kept in a tier.
I still don't understand how these could be worth it outside of Acrobatics or Unburden - once it's used up, you're itemless, which is quite detrimental. You don't have Life Orb's constant power boost, Leftovers recovery, or anything else. Plus Cloyster's Rock Blast has a 10% miss chance, meaning that one specifically could just be wasted.
Acrobatics is niche and only used on scizor (which prefers band) or gliscor (which prefers toxic orb) and no unburden pokemon is good in ou. The pokemon that have gems are using it to bypass checks,like volc,cloyster,latios and breloom and that one boost can change the game. And also knock off was bad,and is only used on ferrothorn. (Which can't safely switch into them)
theyre strong because they are basically a choice band/choice specs but you can also use a boosting move. the main gem abusers were volcarona, latios, dragonite, cloyster, breloom, and sometimes other dumb shit like keldeo keld and lati have calm mind volc has quiver dance dragonite has dragon dance cloyster has shell smash breloom has swords dance gems work because you dont need to have sustained boosts like the other boosting items give you, all you need to do is boost once and then you effectively have something like two boosts on your first hit. to highlight why this is broken: +1 252 SpA Bug Gem Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 356-422 (88.1 - 104.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock you cant give volc even ONE boost or it will 1 shot its only easily slappable defensive check. (heatran isnt even safe hp ground will ohko it too) yes you can switch to absorb them gen with something else but if volc quiver dances again then the game is as good as over.
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okay
Shill lmao
GET THAT BAG
I think banning gems was stupid and they should’ve left Gen 5 as it was.
One of the biggest reason why people realized gems were broken were Z-Moves in gen 7. Once people realized how impactful they were, more people tried gems in gen 5.
Z-Moves didn't make people realize how absurd gems are. It's the recent culmination of people realizing that gems make overpowered pokemon even more broken.
Nothing wrong with getting the maximum power possible with the one-time use of a gem from a respected STAB type of your move of choice, am I right? LOL
I feel like nobody would bat an eye if only the first hit of multi-hits were effected. It sounds like the wave of cloyster and weavile took it too far
Weavile was actually not that common
Cloyster was but there were also breloom, Latios, volcarona, etc
Though this is not to say weavile was bad or anything, just it was a little under the radar
cloyster and breloom are the big ones when it comes to multi hits
@@beeorsomething2230 hi
@@remoraid45 what’re you doing here
Technician bullet seed hits hard
"the brokeness of gems were hidden behind things that were even more broken" LOL
That's what happens when you introduce weather mons, big stats, op items and change sleep all in the same generation
There is a reason why gen 5 has so much shit banned in ou. By far the biggest power creep in pokemon history, not even zacian or galar forms come close.
It's only recently that I realized how much of a trainwreck the Gen 5 competitive scene really is
@@tomaszpawlik5091 ehhh, not really
@@tomaszpawlik5091 Gen 9 comes close.
Flying type + Flying Gem + Acrobatics = OH DEAR LORD THE DAMAGE!!! Yes, Acrobatics gets its X2 power bonus after using Flying Gem. Keep in mind Archeops has 140 Base Attack and can learn Acrobatics.
Alternatively, Unburden Drifblim with Flying Gem + Acrobatics + Recycle
Hawlucha will be even more infuriating since it doesnt have to waste a moveslot for sky attack or a teamslot for a terrain setter
Thats insane, it was pretty common to give Archeops a Flying Gem when Gen 5 was current since people (myself included) assumed that it just helped boost the power of item-held Acrobatics (making it a 82 power move). I had no idea until now basically that it boosted the power of unburdened acrobatics, that's nuts.
Hawlucha would've loved to have it; shame it got delote so quickly.
@@LittleMountain90 probably still does like 20% and dies
You cannot tell me Gems affecting all hits of multihit moves was a little known mechanic. Grass Gem Bullet Seed Breloom was run a ton in the BW era, when Showdown wasn't even popular yet and Pokémon Online was still relevant xD
I love hearing some nerd rewrite history in a video essay!
Yea it’s been known for over a decade that gems affect all hits
I Google searched it, and the first result was a blog post from 2012 explaining it.
Also, gems were veeeery used in vgc since their introduction
Sucks how they took away gems in later Pokemon. I'm not into competitive Pokemon but using gems in my White 2 playthrough was really fun
Funnily enough the gems got nerfed in gen 6 (x1.5 to x1.3), but were still in the game files (you just could not obtain them legally).
They also added a fairy gem to the game files, which was also unobtainable. Additionally, XY also contained the Lati@s mega stones, which arent obtainable either (until ORAS).
I'd like to think Gems were ultimately reworked into Z-Moves, and expanded it to also take benefit on non-attacking moves at the cost of being less abundant and not working on moves like Acrobatics or multi-hit moves quite as well. Though that also got the axe in the Gen 8 so who knows.
They replaced gems with z moves, which are a much better alternative
@@Walrus5 i think that a good idea would to have gems be the same as in gen 5, only they dont affect mutli hit moves and they tell your opponent that you have them, kind of like air balloon.
One of my personal favorites was Archeops with Acrobatics and the flying gem, because it was STAB, plus it would Consume the Gem and buff acrobatics, but by the time the move actually comes out the gem has been consumed so you get the doubled base power of acrobatics, multiplied by 1.5x, alongside STAB. It basically made my Archeops a pokemon I would be able to switch in to a huge threat that I outsped and just Delete them.
I think lessons learned from New gens driving innovation in old gens is also a thing here. When Gen 5 was current, a 1 time boost did come off as less important/powerful impaired to consistent items performing throughout the game- culturally, used to older gens and dealing with more broken shit, the singles player base wasn’t as a tune to the boost value as later players who grew up with Gen 7 and the massive hype/power/restrictions of Z moves. I think Gen 7 informed Gen 5 play retrospectively, just as Gen 3-5 gets a lot more Knock Off use and Gen 2 a lot more Thief use after Gen 6 did more to inform players of the value of removing items through forced item loss. Rise of Gen 4 Clefable is also later-Gen informed imo.
There is definitely some hindsight bias.
I remember people calling me crazy for thinking thief was good back in the day.
You’re absolutely correct. I remember King’s Rock being extremely popular because a timely flinch could change the battle completely. And people in general were more focused on how to counter the meta and figure out ways to beat other weather teams
BKC after hearing this news: "Everything is going according to the plan. Soon BW Ou will be a fair and balanced competitive metagame, all without me needing to throw a direct coup and go dictator mode on the tier." BKC is Emperor Palpatine for Smogon, confirmed.
Memes aside, I love Gen 5 but what drugs were GF on when they made some of the stuff in the games. From Drizzle/Drought on normal pokemon, Gems, Regenerator, etc
If only Keldeo and Reuniclus were to follow suit 😔
Think we've got a few more bans to go until he actually has faith in the tier
I think BW was affected by it being the first gen developed while VGC was up and running. Gamefreak or TPC (probably the latter) likely wanted big and explosive matches that would catch the eyes of casuals who would normally have no interest in competitive pokemon. So you get stuff like nuke mons, broken set up sweepers, gems, weather wars, trick room spam, etc. Makes the game a lot more fun on a casual spectator level, even if competitiors might find it a little frustrating.
Don't forget Shadow Tag Chandelure! (Technically, though it was never released and it's HA changed in Gen 6)
What’s wrong with Weather abilities on Normal Pokémon? It’s not like it makes Ninetales and Politoed broken, without the weather they kinda suck
War flashbacks to Normal Gem + Explosion and Flying Gem + Acrobatics
As someone who wasn't around the competitive scene until generation 6, I always assumed that gems were 1.3x like how modern normal gem functions. Do you think that if gems were ever back in the game with the modern 1.3x boost similar to how normal gem currently functions, that they'd be allowable?
Probably not, because at 1.3x boost, Life Orb is better in just about every use case.
Edit: Whoops. Misread allowable as viable somehow.
I think you'd see some niche Gem usage, at least some Flying Gem Acrobatics, and/or Gem + Unburden. Essentially, what made Gems so good was that had the reward of a Choice item with a few added benefits, while not having enough drawbacks to compensate. Life Orb's drawback is not nearly as harsh as a Choice item's, or even a Gem arguably, so you'd rather just have your moves be 30% stronger at all times.
Edit: I think you could make a case for Gems being decent in the lower tiers of Sw/Sh, where everyone and their grandpa is packing Poltergeist or Knock Off. A lot of Pokemon down there run no item to avoid these moves, so why not use a conumable Life Orb that you can activate at any time?
They should probably limit to one gem to a team, like z-moves, mega or dynamax then it would be acceptable even at their original modifier
All I see with that is Flying gem Hawlucha
@@grunkleg.2934 i mean, some people run their psychic types itemless to avoid poltergeist damage and reduce knock off damage. Having an easily consumable item would be an improvement.
Édit: you said that already. Haha sorry
I was around bw since the beginning. Gems were actually kind of a gimmick at the start. I mostly just remember normal gem explosion. It wasn't until late bw2 when sd rock gem terrak popped up as a way to beat slowbro among other things like latios etc. I think the late meta developments might have also had the benefit of hindsight after gen 7 taught us the value of a one time nuke
Idk gems were so fun to use. They are proto Z moves n they were useful to break through water or steel walls
yeah but putting them on more than one pokemon makes them a bit of a problem
I mean yes, but BW Ou specifically has plenty of extremely powerful offensive threats that can destroy your team if you dont prep for them. Like the main complaint about the tier is that there are so many threats that the meta itself turns into a matchup fish.
was water always OP walls?
@@jerry3115 If that was the problem, they could've just limited you to have just one instead of banning them outright.
@@tomatogenesis complex bans are avoided.... gems are the problem so get rid of the problem..... it could bite them in the future and make tiering a pain in the future
Oh wow so that's why only normal gen survived past gen 5 (and even then, very nerfed)? Damn. I always liked them as an item and while I knew of how much they beefed up attacks, its effect also applying on multi-hit moves as a whole is news to me.
Well *this* is probably not why it was removed
It was removed bc of its effect on gen 5 VGC, and it wasn’t because of gem boosted multi hit moves
But generally, yeah it’s bc it was a bit too strong (then they added mega kang…so idk maybe GF is just constantly high)
@@GravityIsFalling What was it's effect on gen 5 VGC?
@@GravityIsFalling yeah gems were all the rage in VGC, and GF only really cares about what's breaking their competitive metagame, so they can balance VGC. They saw how good gems were there and said "whoops yeah we messed up, we'll just remove them in X/Y so we don't have to worry about this again"
Gen 5 VGC were the whole reason they were removed, not this. Gem boosted Draco was nuts in both VGC and single.
The real reason it was removed is because the focus was on Mega Evolution.
Gems were the proto gimmick
quality content as always
I remember as a kid using rock gem Sceptile on showdown a couple times. I was really bad at teambuilding ofc but I think sceptile's hidden ability raised it's speed when an item was consumed, so it would come in, lure out whatever check, and rock gem rock slide would do a good bit and if it wasn't finished it would get outsped
Gem + Unburden was the only time I remember seeing it often, especially when you could only use Normal Gem. Fake Out Hitmonlee was quite common I think.
Didn't realise it broke Cloyster with link moves.
@@johnmartinez7440 Fake out unburden hitmonlee sounds hilarious, was it an anti lead?
I can see Freezai abusing Gems once he starts to do BW and BW2 Littlelocke or just outright ban it cause you can litterally farm these things with ease (only if you're lucky enough to get the right type though)
You don't even need luck for farming gems tbh; you can just run around in a cave for a couple days and get a metric ton of those things.
Rest in Peace FG Acrobatics Scizor...you will be missed.
Video suggestion: Why some pokemon are bad in normal tiers but are very good in monotype
Two reasons. One, less options, two Team synergy.
@@sptflcrw8583 And other thing i noticed is for example: a pokemon with dual typing is bad, but when one of the types (or an ability) gets an immunity for a weakness of the other type it gets a good niche in that monotype.
Exactly, something like Cradily doesn't stand out usually but on mono grass teams it provides an answer to fire, flying, bug and poison, that's crazily powerful.
@@nicolaistuhlmuller8718 it's *cradily* powerful
@@nicelop_ get out
This video makes me wonder about the new mechanic in scarlet and violet, terrastilizing. The idea is that the Pokémon, till the end of the battle or till it’s knocked out, gets a boost to a specific type. It could be it’s own type or another one entirely, and while im not sure how strong exactly is the boost it likely would be a STAB boost (1.5x boost). I initially thought this new mechanic wouldn’t be broken in competitive but maybe it would be. After all it could mean powerful setup sweepers get access to nuke stab moves, or even get stab on a third type with no drawbacks, that could just make the competitive scene very chaotic, maybe not as much as dynamax, but it certainly is more powerful than even the gems were in gen 5, and possibly even more than the one time z moves. There’s still a lot we don’t know about the new mechanic, so we’ll have to wait to see.
I truly miss the raw power of Flying Gem Acrobatics. Used it on Archeops and blew my friends away.
Shout outs to Lickilicky’s Normal Gem Explosions too.
5:38 "The brokeness of gems was hiding behind things that were even more broken"
I feel like that's competitive Pokemon in a nutshell xD
Man gems are honestly my favorite mechanic of gen 5. Sad to see them gone not only in gen 6, but now on Showdown as well. Wish they would make a return. After all, someone at Gamefreak looked at Zaician and thought "yeah send it boys 😎 " and then went a step further with some of the DLC stuff. I'll never understand Gamefreak's weird thought process.
I think they should have just made it to where you can only have 1 on a team and it nullifies any others you have after usage. But with that in mind, I think keeping it at 1.5x power boost would be fine. After that it's just another run of the mill Shell Smash Cloyster or Beat Up Weavile. Regarding the power boost for 1 hit vs 5 hits can be debated though.
That's... basically what z-moves are.
complex bans for limiting smth for 1 per team... is usually avoided... bp was made like that was still uncompetetive and had to go through many readjustments. Volc is still broken with gems and so is cloyster and its still a guessing game ..
@@athath2010 nah gems are vulnerable to Trick, Switcharoo, Covet, Knock Off, Imprison, etc, and can still miss. Also only buff offensive moves. You're oversimplifying it.
Can you give some info on Charizard and Moltres moving up to OU lately or why Infernapes experiencing huge drop off in Gen 4 OU?
Neither are ou?
@@sptflcrw8583 Zard and Moltres are now in Gen 3 OU. sorry, shouldve specified.
BKC has videos on that, though Freezai's take would be a lot shorter.
Bkc made a great detailed video on the rise of Moltres. Pretty much the same thing applies to Charizard who has weaker stats but access to focus punch to bypass Blissey
@@adrianclamens6679 We always new Focus Punch though. Its a tale as old as time. Por que? Focus Punch in Gen 3 Ou?
And I recall him playing zard in gen3ou with breloom years ago, not so much as officially moving into ou.
Hopefully, we will soon get "Why was Keldeo banned in competitive Generation 5 Pokemon"
I just got a flying gem on my Talonflame in Radical Red and enjoyed the nostalgia of Gen V brokenness
Just wanted you to know I started a Smogon account and built a rain team (Gen 7 OU) and a LC team. Having a lot of fun. Thanks Freezai.
Great video, one thing you missed was the ability of gems to trigger abilities like unburden and moxie to help you snowball
Unburden isn't relevant in gen 5 ou
Iirc it doesn't even exist
Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
It turns out "can only use once" isn't much of a drawback when using it once can win the game
For those wondering why not ban Z moves as they are literally better Gems.
The answer is simple, you can run multiple Gems on the same team. It's not the same but imagine multiple Z-moves on a team? Yikes.
One thing I saw people use was Rock Gem Terrakion OHKOing Phys Def Lando T after Rocks and Swords Dance despite Intimidate. Lando T to this day is THE BEST check to Terrak in the game and it could be bypassed like that. Gems were mad broken.
Z moves themselves got a lot of criticism as well. IIRC there were even talks of them being banworthy at one point in SM/USUM because of they made mons like Kartana or Magearna even dumber.
@@theimpersonator7086 As well as being the only generation where Landorus-T was genuinely banworthy because the classical "just bring a grass type" doesn't work against flynium Z. Z-moves in general are just broken but at least they're kinda limited. Gems are LESS BROKEN BUT they can be in every member of your team.
@@N12015 then there's d max,which gives you 3 turns of z-move level attacks that can give you stat boosts at the same time.
We probably would have had banned to ubers gyarados at some point if that was still around.
Actually have anyway made a alternate timeline list of likely bans in the smogon keeps dynamax timeline.
Who says gems on multiple mons is a hood thing? A team full of gemed up mons would suck. Only a small handful of gen 5 ou mons had viable gem sets. This ban was so soft.
Also the base power is a set increase and does take the full base power of the move into the damage calculation, unlike z moves. A Z Draco Meteor is gonna be 150 base power, a Dragon Gem one is gonna be 210. A Z Icicle Spear will be 120 base power, a Ice Gem Icicle Spear 5 Hit will be 187.5
the amount of people who want to keep gems in this comment section in kinda concerning
They're screaming about stall in metagame that stall doesn't exists
most of the people here are casuals or vgc fans
Gamefreak: greens were a problem.
Also Gamefreak: so I have the coolest idea for the new gens gimmick, guys!
I've known for a bit that gems were banned, but I had always thought that it happened way earlier, especially considering that game freak removed them next generation.
Even at 1.3x, Gems were a godsend in the challenge runs I've done of Unbound. My Monobug First Stage run made considerable use of them- being able to boost one attack with no caveats is great when that one attack knocks out a key threat.
And Unbound lowers the damage to 1.3x since it's got Gen 8 mechanics! Gen 5 gems were utter lunacy.
Ironically reading all of these comments about how Gems should've been complex banned just made me wonder why some complex bans still exist. If banning Drizzle isn't a possibility because novelty is apparently more important than balance and no Swift Swim user has a positive impact on the tier (or any impact for that matter) why bother keeping the latter around? The same question applies for Chlorophyll. Aldaron's proposal sounds like it belongs with RSE UU's recently removed NFE clause.
Because getting tiering changes through in old gens can be a bureaucratic mess to deal with, especially in old gens, so rather than spend a ton of time trying to ban Swift Swim and Chlorophyll and changing very little as a result, the council (I presume) would just prefer to stick with the current system and save themselves a lot of time.
Just imagining Hawlucha with Acrobatics + Flying Gem + Unburden
Flying gem acrobatics
I used to run a hybrid cloyster with icicle spear, rock blast, shell smash, and ice shard back in gen 5. For the item it used to have a kings rock, than either an ice or rock gem, and in gen 7 its running a herb set to counteract shell smash defence drop.
Now how are my Bullet Punches in competitive Gen 5 OU gonna hurt huh? My traditional swords dance set can only do so much! Steel Gem helps out my Bullet Punches turn into a NUKE against my enemies!
There is a clear connection between Gems and the Terastal Crystals. They probably banned them after Gen 5 to better flesh out the idea later (right now)
No
i’ve never once in my life played pokémon showdown. but goddamn do i love your videos. unfortunately they are the sole reasoning why i will never have enough confidence to play showdown in fear of being absolutely embarrassed lmaooo
Regardless its still a fun time even if your bad
It's pretty fun, give it a try, strats in low tiers like PU/ZU are really a cool thing to play around
just play random battles to start so you dont have to teambuild immediately. ultimately you want to build up to that (which is the most fun part imo) but you can get the basics from whichever gen u like most’s random battles. if you want to play ou then resources exist on smogons ruins of alph for all past gen tiers and are everywhere for current gen
@@bokaytrebuchet you don't need to play rdb if you already played the game. It is more useful to ask help in specific rooms and to watch matches of high elo players
@@bokaytrebuchet team building is fortunately my strong suit lol. it’s actually when i utilize the strat and mons that im absolute poo poo
Finally shown doing work in a freezai vid, we made it
Huh, I just remember Gems for Flying Gem Acrobatics nuking an enemy mon out of existence.
Back in 2012 I had a top 50 ou team, but I never used a gem in ou. Dragon gem Draco in vgc, for sure. But in long weather wars, it didn’t seem worth it.
this I like, keep up the good work freezai
"What if Z moves took some steroids?"
Jokes aside, being able to use more than one gem is really what breaks them. Game Freak was actually ahead of us, this time. Good job
i think its less-so the amount of gems as it is the specific circumstances that gen 5 ou has that make them overwhelming, there are better/more defensive options that arent feasible in the volatile gen 5 metagame in gen 7. if they were in gen 7 they mightve also been broken (idk) but in gen 5 they made like 4ish specific pokémon overrun their only defensive checks.
if u wanted to check both psychic and bug gem volc then u needed two diff pokemon to do it for example same goes for all the diff 50/50 gem sets. the main issue is all of the adjustments you could make that help you win against gem hyper offense teams made you far worse off against both opposing sand teams and opposing rain teams (the other two team formats in the meta) so u literally cant build a team that matches up okay into all of those structures, making for a really flashy game of rock paper scissors.
Holy crap, how did I never realize the combination of gems with multi hit moves? I remember people only using king’s rock or white herb on cloyster but an ice gem sounds absolutely absurd on it
it was.
A gem on a multi hit move is the same as a gem on a one hit move
Terrastalizing is a little similar to this but its both more balanced by being once per battle and less balanced since it also changes the user’s type
I only got into competitive Pokemon content after gen 6 so hearing about gen 5 being host to a bunch of migraine inducing broken strategies feels like someone describing the wild west to me.
I remember thinking they seemed so useless in-game and I sorta assumed the same applied to competitive, since I never got into competitive till Gen 6 when they weren’t really around anymore. Surprising to hear how busted they were but it makes sense
I think the gems should be turned into a single item that just powers up the first move you use in battle. That way you cant use multiple gems and you cant save a certain gem boosted move for later on certain pokemon
I hope gems come back someday, they were really fun to use and I like them better than Z-Moves. I feel that there's already so much power creep nowadays that gems wouldn't be as crazy in current metas compared to BW.
Never knew Gems applied a better boost in Gen 5 than it does now-I always thought it was a 1.3x boost.
Holy crap a lot of creativity goes into those trainer sprites. Damn.
I would say that Banning gems strips too much unique identity from Gen-5... but then again Dynamxing was likewise banned from Gen 8 :-\
Considering both are broken mechanics and both generations still have enough defining aspects to separate them from the rest...the tiers are better off without them
It’s a good thing then that Galar is such a shitty region that it made people realize how overpowered Gems were by getting people more used to the idea that regional mechanics do not always work in competitive.
That and Z-Moves in Alola.
gen 5 has plenty of identity. If you need a broken gimmicky thing to understand what a generation of comp is all about, you seem really shallow.
Huh, you would think an item that gets a single time use that buffs one attack wouldnt be that great at all...
single use nuke can potentially blow open the opponent's defensive core by deleting that one immovable wall in a single hit basically
This is also noted as the precursor to Z-Moves, so after all the other op mechanics were removed Gems were the next best thing.
The entire meta balances on a hinge, and every team you make is vulnerable to getting wrecked by some broken threat.
Then the broken threats get that one hit to blast past the normal checks and he'll breaks loose, it's all just match-up fishing noe
+1 252 SpA Bug Gem Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 356-422 (88.1 - 104.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
I remember back in the day no one seemed to ever use any gem except for flying with acrobatics. I remember when Gen 7 first showed off z moves thinking isn't this the same as gems? There's no way this will be useful
flying gem + acrobatics archeops *chef kiss*
I remember early gen 6 ou metagame when we thought gems would be available how fun it was to play unburden flying gem hawlucha with acrobatics
Gen 6-wise, Talonflame would also be a huge winner - its bulky BU Acrobatics set can actually now run an item that makes it can fire of something that basically is almost as strong as CB Brave Bird with zero drawbacks
I'm glad they learned from this and never introduced a type of crystal that gives you super powerful moves of a particular type ever again.
Huh. I figured PvP was where gems were used since I never used held items that get used up in the main game. The attack boost didn’t feel worth it when I would have to get replacements over and over. I know that isn’t the case in PvP since the held item returns after the battle, but I also don’t really do competitive PvP, so I still don’t take it seriously enough to consider using them.
imagine having a choice band but only for whenever you needed it
0:43 thunderblunder777 the agency represents
Great vid Freezai
from what I heard, nobody even thought gems would be good until they saw how good z-moves were in gen7.
Don't know how competitive it was because you know, casual player, but I remember really enjoying the power boost a flying gem gave Acrobatics because the move would check it no item was there after the gem was consumed.
it was not even semi viable in ou at least maybe lower tiers potentially
Didn't have any major users in OU, lower tiera had Pokemon using it though. RU had a couple of them
@@hppern3971 Doesn't that mean they'd still be usable in lower tiers? Like is this a tier wide banning or just for OU?
@@greyscaleadaven dunno off the top of my head, past gen bans don't always transfer down
@@hppern3971 I saw someone in the comments saying that they can still use it in RU for some reason so maybe it was just specifically OU??? Idk
Now that I think about it, gems are returning in Scarlet/Violet as terrastalizing forms but with much needed concessions, such as losing dual typing and being limited to one terra mon per match. I completely forgot Gems existed pass Gen VI. I always found their spawns in caves way too rare and found sand and rain much more impactful to the Gen V meta. To hear sleep has been banned in Gen V just goes to show why status moves were so heavily nerfed in future gens.
Still, it will be nice to see Ice and Rock Pokémon Terastalized into a far better typing.
I don't understand how come gems affecting all hits of a multi-hit move is news to anyone?
The description even says "move" not "instance of damage". I don't understand how someone could assume otherwise?
Think of it like damage reducing berries. For instance colbur berry only reduces the damage of the first hit of beat up, and not the subsequent ones
That's one heck of an abrupt ending
I feel like it'd be interesting to look at what might change if gems ever came back. I feel like in their current state, they'd probably only wind up seeing niche use. There's clearly still value for things like Acrobatics and Unburden, but beyond that, do they really offer enough to justify them over a type item or Life Orb?
Let’s go new video
I was there at the beginning of Gen 5 with Archeops and the flying gem.
It’s kinda funny how many changes they made to make the game more competitive focused in the multiplayer aspect but gen 5 is seen as the gen that didn’t really do much. I guess it was that? Gen 2 added weather and items, gen 3 added abilities and doubles, gen 4 added the physical special split, and gen 6 onwards added a new battle mechanic each time. None of the new battle types in gen 5 took off but hidden abilities and competitive revamp are sure something huh?
I would say introducing some of the most important Pokémon in competitive history is pretty damn big
I find it fitting that the region based off of mainland America is always at war combating the new broken threat in a never-ending gauntlet and the opinions are the most divided there. It wouldn’t be America without a life-altering, existentialist, bitter war about how to do anything, wouldn’t it?
i think the biggest problem with gems is that BW OU was Always a problematic meta which died and Need a rebuilt After a lot of time
so yeah gems which could have been as ok, now are being seriously considered bad
Good video, but I would’ve liked if you also explained why the Normal Gem wasn’t banned
it was in gen 6 beyond ll gems were nerfed and coded but normal gem was the only one allowed
“Gems are broken we must remove them because it isn’t a good idea to allow a Pokémon to have a one time power boost to a particular attack.”
(creates Z crystals)
RIP Flying Gem Acrobatics Scizor, Gliscor, Archeops, etc
Imagine a world with both gems and Terastal. It would be absolute bedlam.
Cool content idea: Playing showdown randbats or OU ladder but STRICTLY following the gen 3 or gen 4 battle AI.
"They should bring back gems! They're wayyyy more balanced than Z Moves!!!!"
lmao
gamefreak nerfing gems in gen 6 and then only keeping the normal gem obtainable in the game is such a strange game design choice. what's even weirder abt this is that there is a completely functional fairy gem in the game. idk if they were saving them for events or something?
The most annoying thing is Gems still existing in Gen 6 so funny romhack creators could bomb us with Flying Gem Talonflame
Why didn't they just make Gems like Z-Moves? One Gem per team. I don't know if Recycle should be allowed or not though.
The fact that gamefreak only put the normal gem in gen8 instead of completely scrapping it is so stupid.
They did that in Gen 6, but I don't know why they did it either. It feels so...pointless
It’s because normal is the only type that doesn’t hit any other type for super effective damage, and the normal gem was meant to help with this.
i think its not stupid but actually qute
I don't see the reason to feel so strongly against this item that is of such little consequence. Yeah, it's a bit weird that it's the only type to remain, but calling it stupid makes it sound like it has a negative impact on the integrity of the game. It's just another niche item and I don't see what's so wrong with that, it's cool to see people use niche items for surprise extremely specific smart strategies
@@tree_tape maybe their teams don't like normal gem explosion lead lando
I nearly won a 40 person gen 5 ou tour with standard Smurf with all items being gems they are SOOOOO busted
Tbh it just feels like they’re willing to try anything to try and save/fix gen 5 meta at this point
I highly appreciate a pokemon youtuber that doesn't sound like they themselves are on 2x speed lol 😂😂😂
I loved gems. Normal gem explosion was the meme of memes
In the games I've actually played, the game will shove a Normal Gem at me and I'll think "what the hell do I do with this?" and never use it. It's an item I cannot replace once it's used (except through literal hours or work in the battle tower, my god...), so if it does actually have a meaningful use, I'd better not use it now. So I use it never.
So how effective would a Linoone with Belly Drum, Espeed and a Normal Gem be? If you could set up previously with a mom that sleeps and mementos, giving Linoone the free Belly Drum turn? Could it one-shot everything with the 5.3x attack STAB priority move?
You could try it in lower tiers,there's gems are legal
Makes setup even harder though, which is Linoone's biggest issue
no, plenty of things still live it. besides, it's easy to sac something already weakned to the boosted hit.
I guess now they'll truly be ..... _Hidden Gems_ ☜ (↼_↼) (Rest in pieces 🧩)
I can't believe the Gems were broken
Honestly would it be fair say bw ou is prob like the second most offensive metagame of all time?
Who's the first?
@@yeet8036 dpp little cup
yes, its easily the worst powercreep we've ever seen, maybe just behind the current gen9 OU powercreep
The thing is BW is already such a mach up meta game. Some teams are always going to be worse off against others like Sand>Rain Rain>Hyper Offense Hyper Offense>Sand. You can try to cover as much with any one team but no team is perfect so you just have to cover as much as possible. Gems throw off this balance. Suddenly your only check against volcorona T-tar loses to a +1 bug gem bug buzz and you lose the game. Or suddenly Scizor can't beat Latios with spikes and then alakazam and reuniclus run wild. Its way too much to deal with already and now gems pile on even more problems.
thinking about the tyranitar named EVICTION NOTICE
Or the Cresselia named HAPPPY BIRTHDAY AI
Ohh thats an op start **opens PS and selects nat dex ag**
Do you think you could do a video about the implications and effects on competitive with the type changing mechanic coming in the new generation?
If one of the main reasons that Gems were so broken was because of your ability to have multiple Gems on your team, couldn't they have instead put a clause so you could only have 1 Gem on your team, like how you can only have 1 Z-Crystal? This would make predicting the Gem more rewarding in the same way predicting a Z-Move is, while still allowing players to break walls with Gems. And since Gems are only usable on offensive moves, this would make Gems generally weaker than Z-Moves as those could be used to get boosts as well as attack, and yet Z-Crystals aren't banned in Gen 7.
As it stands currently, how has banning Gems affected the meta? Are defensive strategies the new meta, now that they don't have to worry about Gems breaking their walls too easily? Would letting people use 1 Gem be too strong because of multi-hit moves? If only a very specific set of Pokémon are the problem with allowing Gems to be brought back to 1 per team, couldn't they move, for example, Gem-Cloyster to Ubers if they want to use a Gem, the same way Pokémon like Gothitelle get the boot to AG if they want to use Shadow Tag?
Sleep Clause was a clause in Pokémon stadium so they allow it purely because it was allowed in the actual cartridge game.
Complex bans also do not make sense if you want to really get to the root of the problem. For example, if you have a Pokémon that does too well, is it the ability, item, playstyle (like rain or hail) or Pokémon that is broken? Usually it is the Pokémon, so figuring that out helps keep a non-ravaged meta of people arbitrarily deciding Pokémon are viable for this tier and not that tier because of attachment to a Pokémon.
Of course, when the outcome is effectively long-term mechanic shifting, you then wonder why you bother with “not allowing complex bans” since whatever is being done are basically shifting how the game is played just as haphazardly as a complex ban.”, but even more fundamentally than a Pokémon arbitrarily being kept in a tier.
I still don't understand how these could be worth it outside of Acrobatics or Unburden - once it's used up, you're itemless, which is quite detrimental. You don't have Life Orb's constant power boost, Leftovers recovery, or anything else.
Plus Cloyster's Rock Blast has a 10% miss chance, meaning that one specifically could just be wasted.
Acrobatics is niche and only used on scizor (which prefers band) or gliscor (which prefers toxic orb) and no unburden pokemon is good in ou.
The pokemon that have gems are using it to bypass checks,like volc,cloyster,latios and breloom and that one boost can change the game.
And also knock off was bad,and is only used on ferrothorn. (Which can't safely switch into them)
theyre strong because they are basically a choice band/choice specs but you can also use a boosting move.
the main gem abusers were volcarona, latios, dragonite, cloyster, breloom, and sometimes other dumb shit like keldeo
keld and lati have calm mind
volc has quiver dance
dragonite has dragon dance
cloyster has shell smash
breloom has swords dance
gems work because you dont need to have sustained boosts like the other boosting items give you, all you need to do is boost once and then you effectively have something like two boosts on your first hit.
to highlight why this is broken:
+1 252 SpA Bug Gem Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 356-422 (88.1 - 104.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
you cant give volc even ONE boost or it will 1 shot its only easily slappable defensive check. (heatran isnt even safe hp ground will ohko it too)
yes you can switch to absorb them gen with something else but if volc quiver dances again then the game is as good as over.