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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ค. 2024
- A look into why the Orkney Islands is interested in leaving #scotland and the #uk and becoming a part of #norway instead. Following #brexit and the Scottish independence referendum, the UK is facing yet another dispute over sovereignty and self-determination. I explore the history of these islands, which at various points were under the control of the Gaels, Picts, Celts, #romans, #vikings, and eventually the kingdoms of Scotland and Norway. I also delve into the enormous implications that this case could have on the future of #international #law and #global #politics.
Photo Attributions
0:11 - 0:14
Attribution: Scottish Government
CC Link: creativecommons.org/licenses/...
1:18 - 1:20
Attribution: Gary Bembridge
CC Link: creativecommons.org/licenses/...
4:05 - 4:15
Attribution: Kommunesektorens organisasjon
CC License: creativecommons.org/licenses/...
4:15 - 4:27
Attribution: Prime Minister’s Office (Contains public sector information licensed under the Open Government Licence v3.0.)
License Link: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/d...
Tell me Orkney, what first attracted you to the mega rich country of Norway?
The fact that Norway is NOT a full eu member, I don't even bother with the caps. any more, eu are so not worth it,
@@lesskeels3417 in fact, Norway is not a UE member at all
@@lesskeels3417 As an independent country they have chosen to remain outside the EU, but have negotiated and agreed to many of the principles. They, for example, have agreed to freedom of movement. The relatio ship the uk government looks to be seeking is quite different. They seem to wany to increase barriers in every way.
@@mrswonderful87 Thanks for letting me know, I thought they were like Switzerland, you know, associate member, good for them, full sovereignty there then.
@@lesskeels3417 well... they actually are like Switzerland, but Switzerland isn't a UE member either... They have a different status, both of them, but none of them is a member
Having to watch how one's own national wealth is funneld into the pockets of some crooks with the help of Whitehall, while Norway, which was one of the poorest countries in Europe 100 years ago, has now become one of the richest countries in the world thanks to exemplary economic policies, leaves the desire for a corresponding change become completely understandable.
If the world stops extracting oil and gas, will Norway disappear back into the fjords in a way similar to the rich oil states in the Gulf will be covered in sand, like Ozymandias ‘look on my works ye mighty, and despair’?
@@Joanna-il2ur To some degree, maybe, but Norway wasn't as poor back then as people like to believe. Also, there are other industries as well; fishing, production of aluminium tec. Not to mention the existance of the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund, the state-owned fund meant to secure future pensions and provide flow of money in times of crisis, which is worth around 1.1 trillion GPB at the moment.
Norway, like the rest of Europe has a demographic time bomb ticking away, so we'll all end up in the same sinking boat.
@@Joanna-il2ur Like Saudi Arabia , they are investing and diversifying. They will be fine.
@@Joanna-il2ur Norwegian reporting in:
Oil is 4.3% of our GDP.
No reason to stop selling hydrogen gas for a while. It's 50% less bad than coal, so gas powered power plants be the last power plants to shut down. We're now the biggest exporter of gas to the EU after Russia went mental. We are making an absolutely ridiculous amount of money right now.. It's nuts..
We have about 1.4 trillion dollars in our oil fund that is set aside to cushion economic troubles. We got through the pandemic fairly well compared to much of the world due to this fund. We can borrow quite a bit of money with 1.4 trillion as collateral...
Also, we just discovered enough materials to keep the world supplied with batteries, solar panels and fertilizer for the next 50 years. lol.
We'll be fine.
Just want to thank my forefathers for not being greedy short sighted silly goofballs and selling off our natural resources for nothing, like the rest of the world did. Nationalizing resources is the way to do things.
Stop being stupid, folks. Reclaim your natural resources. Lay waste to corporations and see profits soar. Time to stop being so unbelievably submissive. Your resources might be paid for by corporations, but it's on your land, and if they want to send an army to defend contracts signed by their grandfather's generation, so be it.
Take it back. What your great grandpa sold shouldn't haunt you forever. Corporations don't deserve eternal contracts on other nations "stuff". Take it back, nationalize it. Nothing radical about that idea, yet no one would even think to do it. Submission is vile..
Orkney was part of Norway in early middle ages when the Jarls of Scandinavia had still ambitions to conquer the British Isles .
Well, they succeeded in a way....they sent their guys down to Normandy whence they invaded and conquered the English via the Channel. The UK's Norman descendants still hold very significant wealth and power today.
My family fought those Jarls for generations. Lamb laidir an nachtar!
Conquer where?
@@bluechip297 the whole isle . They did many incursions and invasions on the whole isle .
they made a few incursions into the UK but they did not conquer it
2:25 A small but rather important correction. Orkney and Shetland were offered to Scotland as a collateral by the Danish-Norwegian king, not by Norway. The Norwegian government was not consulted or even informed and they were the only ones who had the authority to cede Norwegian territory. Denmark-Norway did try to pay the debt on several occasions but the Scots refused to take the money. So Orkney and Shetland have never been legally ceded to Scotland. It doesn't really matter after more than 500 years of course but I think we should keep the record straight.
Der var ingen norske regeringen kun den Danske Konge Kristiansen 4.
Great comment! In addition, see my comment, they have a right to self-determination under international law. I suggest twinning with South Sudan, which successfully broke away.
It does matter to the Orcadians, who have more Nordic traditions than Celtic traditions.
@@adrianwhyatt1425 As we see with Catalonia though that right and law is meaningless.
The Orkney and Shetland Islands were invaded/ colonised by the Vikings in 850 and subsequently annexed. So I guess it all depends at what point people want the history to start that bests suits their desired outcome.
I am a Yorkshire man totally dissatisfied with the. London centric so called government. Can Yorkshire join Norway as well please. We were run by the vikings for a long time and even have the Jorvik centre in York. Please Norway rescue us from the Southern Barbarian munts
T'West Ridin flag eiven hes a Nordic Cross on't!
My great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather was most likely a viking and I approve your request
I’m Norwegian and I’ve been to York, beautiful architecture, we’d love to have you, and I love that you still call streets “gate” like we do.
Yorkshire was part of the Danelaw, so you would belong to Denmark ~ Norway may have oil and nature, but Denmark has cheap beer and fun... ;)
@@lkjh861 They might have cheap beer and fun but they have the danish language and that seems to be a bit of a no no for the rest of the human race.
I’m Scottish - honestly I understand where they are coming from. It would be so sad to lose them but as far as I am concerned that ought to be entirely up to them
While English, this is how I feel too for both Scotland and the Orkney's, it really should be totally up to them/you.
if you can't get out at least someone gets out.
it's all about the oil
Yeah sure bit as a norwegian consider this ; 25£ for 6 pints in the supermarket (cheapest) also it will be illegal to Market and advertise the scotch.
It is a matter for the british, because the orkneys would then significantly decrease the EEZ of Britain in the north sea, and greatly expand Norways
The Romans never reached as far as the Orkney Isles.
I agree, the Romans never ruled the Orkney islands or northern areas of Scotland, period. The one Roman expedition that ventured further north, was never heard from again.
@@KingCatsTube that made me laugh 🤭 and yes you're right ....
Although there is evidence that Rome and the inhabitants of Orkney were in contact. Roman Emperor Agricola claimed he subdued the island in AD84 as an emissary from a tribe in Orkney reached them. But No actual evidence supports this and no Roman artefacts have been found in Orkney.
@@KingCatsTubeIs that a war joke?
@@falconeshield actually, no, the Romans never ruled areas of Scotland north of the Antonine Wall (which was eventually abandoned), but during most of the Roman period, not north of Hadrian’s Wall. True, there was some kind of Roman expedition that ventured north of the Antonine Wall, with no information on what their fate was.
To be honest, the Scottish government seems to be fixated mostly on Glasgow and Edinburgh and the UK government on London. So it's not just the Orkney people dissatisfied, plenty of other British counties are pretty sick of things.
I wish the people of Orkney good luck. I'm not sure that Norway will be much better than our own governments, but if they've done the research and found out that national care is more even and widespread, then go with it.
Totally agree, and if they do go to Norway, I'm emigrating to Orkney!
@@isabelstokes4042 why wouldn't you just move to Norway instead of Orkney?
@@saltmeister1949 Norway doesn't need Orkney. The oil in that region is in Shetland, not Orkney.
I think the oil is under the sea? (Locations of terminals isn’t where “the oil is”..)
Will it make the weather warmer and with less rain? If so THEY SHOULD DO IT! 🤣😂🤣😂
I don't blame them. Good luck, Orkney!
Norway ? Yes please I'm moving to Orkney if they leave the uk too many lying politician's here.
Me too! Exactly the point I've made in another post here.
Why not? Norway is split worldwide already. Arctic, Svalbard, Bouvet Island, Jan Mayen, Bjornoya etc.
Orkney country flag is "Norwegian". White is replaced with yellow. Orkney "Coat of Arms". 50% of it is Norwegian Coat of Arms.
not surprised at all --- who in there right mind would not take this option .
The centralised British State is in trouble and without major modernisation at Westminster calls for change from the peripheries will continue to grow.
Don't be fooled by this video. The maker of this video has no idea of what some Orcadian meant by his remark. He was, in fact, having a pop at the SNP and their incompetence. Norway would not touch the Orkneys and the Shetlands with a bargepole.
@@johnough4893Beeing a Norwegian I am not so sure about us not wishing the Islanders welcome back. Even better would be together with the Outher HEBRIDES!!!
All the best from the ol'country.
🇧🇻😎😎🇧🇻
I think Scotland should let the Orkneys vote for their independence.
@@love-conquers-all Shame it's got nothing to do with Scotland
Norn was spoken on Orkney and Shetland well until the 1700s and some say in the 1800s. Swedish fishermen who moored their boats on Orkney or Shetland could understand each other's language since they were so similar. Large parts of Scotland were part of Norway well into the 1400s. Even today the Scots Gaelic of the Hebrides has a very strong Norse intonation. Moreover, the royal families of Scotland married into the royal family of Norway.
Eh "Large parts! No only the Western and Northern Isle.
@@paulwilson2651 Even the northern/western tip of the mainland, and ALL the isles to the west and north.
and history has taught us these maps of countries are just lines on paper, and can change, and HAVE changed.
I think if Orkney became a part of Norway many people would want to move there.
Too right
And then it'd be ruined. 😅
@@Jayce_Alexander No it would become much better! Lots of space there.
@@Jayce_Alexander orkney would be muuuuuuuuuuuch better in norway
It's absolutely gorgeous there and they make some really great whisky over there.
As a Norwegian I would welcome them to us with open arms!
There was a party in Iceland who also wanted to join Norway and I would also welcome them with open arms!
I dont get why Norway is so unwelcoming, they did belong to us before so why cant they now? We need more people anyway as people get fewer and fewer children
The islands are literally a Norwegian territory under English occupation. Even the DNA of the people who live there is overwhelmingly Scandanavian
@@Bertie_AhernOrkney isn't a apart of England it's a part of Scotland
@@Bertie_Ahern DNA is not overwhelmingly Scandinavian. They still have a lot of indigenous dna i.e. Gael/Pict.
@@jackieblue1267 interesting book on a DNA study done in the eighties: the Scots, Picts, and Irish. in most Canadian libraries.
Har vi ikke ødelagt nok liv?
The Shetland and Orkney isles have always voted against the SNP and voted against seceding to a Scottish state in 2014. Opinion polling shows they consistently reject joining an independent Scotland. There is an argument to be made that they see themselves as separate here.
It's not only the SNP that the Shetland and Orkney Isles are against. They also reject the Conservative amd Labour Party too; being about the only safe seat the Liberal Democrats have in the entire UK. In part because of the Lib Dem's federalist instincts.
And they have always been against Brexit and the fact that the Orkney Isles were taken out of the single market and custom union by the Westminster Government moves the further away from Norway. Also the Fishing Industry has also been damaged due to Brexit one of the Orkney Isles biggest incomes. So I do believe you are talking utter pish!!!
I've got a mate from Shetlands and the vote was much more about the EU but seeing themselves separate? He said they never saw it that way and consider themselves Scottish. Also would add a lot of issues considering how often Shetlanders need to go to the mainland for business and to pursue higher education.
I’m an Orcadian. the vote between the Liberal Democrat’s and SNP has been narrowing each election. With the younger generation starting to vote, the SNP will be in voted in this coming election or the next. Similarly with the independence vote many on the island have changed their mind and the gap has narrowed massively.
Most people in Orkney do see themselves as Orcadian before anything else. We aren’t supportive of the Union, Westminster, Holyrood or anyone really. I’m sure we only vote Liberal Democrat as it is the most Vanilla choice with the least repercussions. Orkneys older generations will always vote against change.
Do keep up Shetland was almost won by the SNP.
Norway has the highest international Democracy Rating. By contrast the UK & the USA have dropped 2 places in recent years.
Ik I live in norway it also has highest hdi etc
@@ITT59Gamer I am envious. Cheers.
Democracy is garbage.
@@ITT59Gamer If I was not poor, old & English I would apply to emigrate to Norway. Sadly I have nothing contribute - alas alackaday! Cheers.
just say you can buy them!
If a majority of the citizens want to leave the UK and join Norway, and Norway is OK with it, why not?
In Norway we would be ready for this, but only the the majority on the Orkneys is really substantial and the transfer can be made in an amicable way. We don't like big conflicts. We want peace, freedom, democracy, love and happiness.
Cause there is oil there and number 10 wants it. They're just not willing to actually invest in it. Typical case of lots of money and very few voters in the area.
Sounds good to me.@@Bob94390
Well werent they norweigan longer than they were British?
Not al all. The Orkney's AND Shetlands are rightful British clay. Norway is my favourite country outside of the British Isles but I'd fight it tooth and nail for even the smallest island, its ours. If some Orkadians have meme'd themselves into thinking they're Norwegian then they can easily move to norway.
I don't blame the Orcadians for wanting to join Norway. They were Vikings originally anyway!
What do you suppose they were before the Vikings? Generally they are understood to have been Picts.
Well that enables northern England to join Norway too as we come from Viking stock.... southern England is all Norman French..if we pull this off.. the northern powerhouse will become a reality as opposed to a politicians empty promise and London will become our poor neighbour..
@@griswald7156 Er, the Normans were Vikings too, settled in the Rouennais by the king of France, who initially offered them Flanders, which they rejected. Norman = Northman. However, the DNA of England shows nobody has a majority of Germanic haplotypes, typically 30-35%, and we are all essentially Brythonic, with Scotland little different from the soft bellied south of England, or indeed Wales.
@@Joanna-il2ur Northman= man from northern France…Normans are French the Norman conquest was enabled by the french from Normandy..Willian the Conqueror came to do battle in Battle in Sussex..from the coast of France ..he was a ruler of Normandy not Scandinavia..er…er…er..to get to Sussex from Scandinavia he would have had to arrive via the M1 and the M25..he didn’t come by that route i can assure you..he came by boat from his kingdom in Normandy..Normandy is not in Scandinavia..im almost certain of that fact..
@@griswald7156 It may have escaped your notice that the word man is not French. Odo, Count of Paris, and his son Robert beat a Viking invasion by blocking the Seine upstream and downstream of the Viking ships, trapping them. Robert went on to become king of France. In 911 the Vikings left in France agreed to settle near Rouen. By 1066, they had assimilated into the local population and of course William the Bastard was the son of a tanner’s daughter from Rouen. But everything I say is true. I am a medieval historian. You are trying to mansplain my own era to me. Thanks. Just look it up, please.
Even in England, everything outside of the M25, and the elite areas like Bath or Oxford, is abandoned by the government.
Sounds like Orkney wants the Åland treatment: Strong cultural and linguistic ties to one country (Sweden) while belonging to another (Finland).
The biggest difference is that Åland mostly had strategic value, while Orkneys value is mostly natural resources.
Maybe we should get the League of Nations to help 😅😉
Maybe they could just stop pratting around.
I'd say they're quite strategic as well, as you had the Scapa Flow Naval base there. You can use Orkney and Shetland to keep an eye on where the Atlantic and North Sea meet. Plus if Russia's Arctic fleet, based in Murmansk want to acces either the rest of Europe or head out to the Atlantic they have to use that bit of sea where the Islands are. But yes the oil, (and maybe natural electricity capabilities?), is very important too
Or maybe just the Falkland Islands treatment. They get to join whomever the so inhabitants chose.
@@nickvickers3486 you made that sound very exciting!
@@H-Zazoo IMHO this should be the actual solution to ANY sovereignty dispute... otherwise it's just cultural bullying.
"the orkneys"... orkney is plural, so it is orkney, orkney islands at a push. there is a strong connection to norway in the north isles, a norwegian dignitary visits every year for norwegian day and a christmas tree is given by norway. alot of the words used are norn, most places are named in norn. they didn't have a decent road to scrabster till the early 80's and the old ola was fun so i am told. basically they have been ignored for a long long time by wm.
nerd
No, Orkney is singular, ey is norn for island in the singular. But the term is used for the whole archipelago usually.
Almost 1k subs!! Glad to sub and feed the algorithm! This was such a nice video to listen too with a nice overview. While also talking about hot topics. Very lovely!
Scotland was NOT absorbed into England in the 18th century, the Stuart Kings of Scotland had been the Kings of England for three generations when the Stuart King James II attempted illegally to return the countries to Catholicism and reintroduce Absolute Monarchy. After James fled to France (before he could be kicked out) it was decided to put the effective Union of Scotland and England onto a firm legal footing with The Act of Union, Scotland (1706 I think) and England (1707).
The devolved Government of Scotland are almost entirely responsible for the current state of the Orkneys, NOT the UK government, which concentrates almost exclusively on the state and status of London as others correctly point out.
With modern communications, IMO, the bulk of the Civil Service Departments could effectively be spread out among the Counties, reducing the pressure on London salaries and prices, reducing the cost of government and raising the status of Counties elsewhere = Levelling Up.
I have to say, impressive crediting work on the photographs used. It’s a rarity to see such thoroughly done on the internet these days.
Scotland was not “absorbed” into the UK, the UK was created when Scotland and England joined together into a union of the crown, then later a political union. In fact, it was the Scottish king (King James IV) who also became king of England and united the two kingdoms.
The union actually didn't come about until James's great granddaughter - Anne - was on the throne.
@@reb0118Precisely. Under James I (and VI, by the way) the kingdoms merely shared a sovereign, and were said to be in a 'union of crowns'.
Formal unification did not happen until the Scottish economy collapsed due to the Darien Project failure, and was bailed out by the English in return for polical union, 1707 if I remember correctly. It was very unpopular at the time, with riots and similar. The paperwork was signed in a shed , hidden away from the lynch mob who were out to get the polititians involved. James I of England was crowned 1604, and was also James VI of Scotland at the same time, still 2 separate countries. As Burns puts it "bought and sold for English Gold"
Leaving a comment for the algorithm! :D
I gotta say, I love this format! No beating around the bush or diluting of content - you just got right to the point & ended the video when all was said!
I appreciate that! :D
What exactly happened to this concept known as "democracy" should not the people of the Orkney Islands decide?
ya and the uk union call themselves a union of equals
Western European """Democracy""", what did you expect?
Orkney will do what England tells them to do, end of
They haven't voted for anything yet, they are just discussing things, there hasn't even been a poll on the matter, tbh this is just to kick up a fuss so they can get more funding, and yes in democracy's you can not just illegally secede, the same reason why texas would never be allowed to secede.
@@Steven_Healy44 It is, of course England dominates the conversation of the country, that's because it has 85% of the population
You lost me at 1:58, while a couple of Roman artefacts consistent with trade have been found in Orkney there is no evidence of Roman settlement.
He should have just skipped most of the rushed ancient history lesson to talk about the medieval viking influence
yup absolute nonsense being spouted
Which is two very different things. There are some Roman finds in Sweden. Does that mean there was Roman settlement? Hell no. It's as if people forget that trading exists.
@@Elora445 Conquering a place, which was the claim, usually implies settlement on that place to enforce the conqueror's rule. There is no evidence of settlement. As you said, contact via direct trade or trade via intermediaries is often disregarded or discounted.
@@rabha1754
Yep, indeed it does. Lots of places have Roman finds from ancient times that they've gotten simply by trading with places that were settled by Romans. Or by intermediaries, as you said.
So glad to see someone else talking about this.
I once knew a Scotsman who had worked in the Shetlands when he was younger. He (himself a pro-independence Scottish nationalist) observed that the Shetlanders do not consider themselves Scottish, and would quickly move to secede from Scotland if Scotland ever left the UK.
I don't know where "the Shetlands" are, but I assume you mean Shetland.
@@Seoras111 Ah Zetland, I knew ye well.
*Hjaltland
Cornish don't call themselves English.. Cornwall has suffered as brexit has killed it's fishing and rich Londoners outbid them for housing
@@imck357 The fishermen were some of the biggest cheer leaders for Brexit before the referendum so why should anyone give a shit that a leopard is now gnawing on their face. The world's smallest violin plays for them. Cornwall received the some of the highest levels of EU funding in the UK and thought the Tory party would continue to support them. This is spectacularly ignorant and devoid of any understanding of politics, reality or the awfulness of the Tory party. Anyone who tried to reason with them at the time was accused of lying and fear mongering.
Kyj dhe ves to all the the brexit voters in Cornwall, none of this was directed at the remainers who have to share oxygen with them.
The Islands were in fact pawned. Norway never gave up its claim and denmark trivd several times to reclaim the Islands but the scots didnt answer…
Yeah. It's silly to judge what was done in the past using present-day standards. This doesn't invalidate any concerns as to poor funding and national-local attention though. Hopefully they find an acceptable solution.
The king of Norway Denmark Sweden sold Orkney to Scotland in lieu of his failure to pay for his daughter's wedding to the king of Scotland in 1472 ie 550 years ago
@@Valhalla88888 To my knowledge, it wasn't sold but left as a mortgage from the Danish/Norwegian King. So if this amount of money is paid, it may still be a part of the Kingdom of Denmark/Norway. And as it was a Danish situated King ruling both the countries, as also most of the vikings, who came for a cultural exchange visit to England, came from Denmark, it must most definitely be considered Danish land!!
@@finncarlbomholtsrensen1188 my understanding in 1476 the king of Norway and Sweden had zero cash but his daughter was wed to James and a dowry was promised but never paid and the King sold Orkney to Scotland as a pledge for his missing dowry and Orkney was absorbed into the Kingdom of Scotland yes it's 550 years ago
@@Valhalla88888 No thats not correct. In the agreement the future Kings had the opportunity to pay up and Get it back. They tried to but was rejected. It was never agreed to a permanent sale.
Just a few notes here:
So Orkneys were given as a collateral for the dowry in 1468.
In that agreement, it was made clear that if the current king of Norway was not able to pay the dowry, future kings of Norway would still retain the right to pay it, and get the islands back.
And in 1472, the king of Scotland annexed the islands, in violation of the agreement.
It should also be mentioned that three times Norway has tried to pay back the money, but it has been refused every time. Again, in violation of the agreement.
Bottom line is: The islands are Norwegian, but are illegally occupied and governed by UK.
No, the Orkneys are part of the British Isles and whatever some invading viking Kings said isn't relevant. They were inhabited by Britons before the Norse and they are British.
@@crowbar9566Everything you said was either wrong or irrelevant.
Thats not true. The UK had no part in the annexation of Orkney and Shetland, it was King James III of Scotland, and it was the Cathiolic church that issued the decree making the territories legally belong to Scotland. In the Act Of Union in 1707, the Church again gave its decision to assign both islanbds to Scotland.
The UK is not occupying the islands nor is it illegal to belong to Scotland.
Both islands have applied to become crown dependencies if Scotland leaves the UK, which of course is now virtually impossible with the new polling data showing 61% in favor of remaining in the UK.
There has been a lot of propaganda and nonsense being talked since the UK left the EU, most of it to be fair, gets ignored by all parties.
@@davidgreen6490 Which part of what I said was not true? And where did I say that UK had any part in the annexation?
And also, who cares what the Catholic Church said? What they say doesn't make anything legal.
@@Tjalve70 Most of it and you wrote "The islands are Norwegian, but are illegally occupied and governed by UK".
The Church decree makes it completely legal and the islands are governed directly from Holyrood, not Westminster, the Scottish devolved parliament is responsible for both islands.
There are a lot of Europeans trying to split the UK apart since Brexit, because the EU propaganda is telling them they have the power to do so, but they simply dont. Its all just mouth.
I'd say fundemetally that if a party with a manifesto that contains a policy of transferral of sovereignty to norway wins the majority of seats in it's local election (and that isn't easy to do under the scottish STV system) that they have the right to a refferendum to decide such a matter. I believe fundementally in people's right to self determination - even if I don't want to see them leave Scotland.
No, they don't have any legal right to a referendum to leave.
You dont understand, they have both applied to become crown dependencies if Scotland leaves the UK, and Westminster has no choice but to agree. Although this is a seperate point, it automatically negates any chance of the islands become a part of another sovereign state like Norway.
Brexit has reopened the sovereignty debate within the UK. As the strength and relevance of the United Kingdom as a centralised economic, military and political power continues to decline during the twenty first century, calls for a reexamination of the constitutional settlement between the home counties is likely to increase. The perception of Westminster as failing model of government is growing and the polarisation of political opinions hardening. Sadly for many in the UK the difference between political prejudice and objective reality has become so blurred by a biased press and mendacious politicians that good governance by the current parliamentary system is becoming very difficult.
We squandered our wealth by being the worlds Policeman, we interfered in other countries as well and went to war to sacrifice the flower of our youth so why not just allow the UK to downsize it' s population and stop importing immigrants to boost numbers. I reckon if we had around 50 million souls we would be doing OK, our resources would last longer too.
They all agreed on lockdown .? .
Um........ Because quarantine etc is the only sensible and proven way over centuries to handle infectious epidemics? With Covid allowing spread before symptoms show, quarantine was extended to a lockdown. My Dad remembered the flu in 1919 and at the age of 6 had to spend a winters night lying on the pavement outside a hospital with hundreds of others. If that had happened you really would have something to complain about.
Anyway, it's all over now, you can come out now or do you want to whinge about being a victim forever?
@@peterbushby9009they agreed it was a problem but didn’t agree on how it should be dealt. Why do you think the Henry VIII powers were used? To circumvent Parliament. They still have not been rested.
@@thefirm4606indeed really democratic using dictatorial powers but then what you expect from a country that is atm more a dictatorship than a democracy.
I’m all for Scottish independence, but to be logically and morally consistent you also gotta uphold Orkney and Shetland’s rights to self determination. I hope we can see a thriving revival of their unique cultures and economy’s as well as Scotland’s
The Scottish opinion is independence for me but not for thee....
The SNP is a nest of thieves.
So you were all for Brexit then I take it?
@@ONLYJOKING101given that the majority of people that wanted out of it were Englishmen, yeah. But it would only be reasonable to give a referendum after that but for Scottish independence after given how much they wanted to stay in the EU it definitely would have changed compared to the one held before it
@@ONLYJOKING101 Yeah, the EU is an international monopolist capitalist association run for the benefit of capitalists in its core countries. I think leaving it was the right idea. I still think Scotland should have its own say over whether it wants to be in it or not though
As an Orcadian and a proud supporter of Scottish independence, I would some day hope to see scotland independent and Orkney with a crown dependency type of autonomy. Joining Norway would be cool but would be an administrative nightmare.
No orkney is trying to break away from the Scottish assembly, as Hollywood has failed the island of Orkney and Scotland in general.
It happens every time Scottish independence raises its head ,divide and rule a long held strategic position of the U.K.
I'm all for Scottish independence, and whoever wants to join Norway please do so.
We can have both things.
This is a fascinating thing to witness as a Swede. While not Norwegian, it is still profound to see an area of The UK wanting to become Nordic while it already bears a Nordic Cross and has ties to our neighbor.
While I see some merit in that claim, I do not think that would hold up in international law. After all, it was formally annexed with technical consent of the previous host nation and has been recognized Scottish and UK territory by everyone for multiple centuries, including Norway herself. Its inhabitants seem to be Anglo-Saxons and English speaking, and it seems rather evident that this is only really pursued due to discontent rather than any inherent desire to identify as Norwegians or Nordics. I'm also fairly certain that the precedent made by accepting such a claim would result in a lot of territorial absurdities, which may as well act as a Reductio ad Absurdum.
Still, it would be hilarious to see the island be so fed up with its geographically closer nation that it would rather be an effective exclave of a nation not much further from it than the north of Ireland.
I just made this fascinating comparison. (Yes, i spelled Orkney wrong. lol)
Orkney is as Norwegian as it gets even in 2023. Orkney uses Norwegian Coat of Arms with a Viking ship added. Country flag is more or less the same.
amiga32.com/pics/orkney-norway.jpg
The only part of Scotland that has anglo-saxon heritage is the Lothian and areas formerly apart of bernicia (South East Scotland), they've got a mix of Brythonic, Norse and Scotti.
Many of the inhabitants are well to do English.
@@LS-jv9hp Ah my bad. I forgot that the Orkney Islands are part of Scotland.
Regardless, my point was that they're not very Nordic. x)
@@BlazeLycan its np just correcting on that part because a lot of people scotland is overly anglo saxon.
My ancestors were from Orkney.I have about 70%Scottish DNA.I also have about 7%Norwegian DNA.I’m a first generation Australian of Scottish descent and still have distant relatives who live on Orkney.
@davidjohnston....where were you born?... That's your nationality!
Those DNA tests aren't scientific at all rather commercial nonsenses so your Norwegian heritage might be way higher.
@@englanduk6131 In administrative terms only. DNA and culture do not magically change when one born in, assumes or is coerced into citizenship of a different country from your forebears.
@@iggle6448 your forebears are your forebears, where you are actually born is your country.... Nothing wrong with attaching yourself to your families ancient history but your place of birth is your nation! 😁
@@englanduk6131 Aye, well, try telling that to the hundreds of thousands of people born to e.g. British military/diplomatic/overseas workers born abroad!
I would more than welcome both the Orkney Islands, Shetland Islands, Faroe Islands and Island into our Kingdom of Norway 🤺
and sweden
@@sduper2461
Nah, you swedes can fend for yourself 😂😛
Norwegian colonisation
@@SoupMagoosh
Based upon invitation, not conquest though 😉
Amusing. As a Manx woman, I wonder if we could claim the same? The Isle of Man was owned by just about everybody around the Irish Sea, including the Vikings as part of the Kingdom of Sodor and Mann. The British crown only bought it because our ancestors were smuggling too much and upsetting the customs officers. I know the King of Norway was invited to Tynwald some years ago. A precedent?
Man was even owned by the Earl of Orkney at one point
I think as another option they wanted more autonomy as ether a Crown Dependency like the Channel Islands or as its own Country within the UK.
I thought this is the better option. Works well for the channel isles.
Nothing to with culture, it’s about money, always
Lol, sure. Who's gonna get what kind of money, then?
So? That is the basis of English thinking and policy so they are fighting fire with fire
As someone who lives in Cornwall. Norway please take us too :(
Good on them, the oil wealth is much better preserved and invested by Norway. The way the UK government have squandered oil revenue is just plain corrupt! The Orkneys will be much better off being part of Norway.
This is mainly because the population of Norway is about 7% of the population of UK.
Fewer people to share the money with, means more money per person.
This really is simple math, and has nothing to do with squandering.
@@Tjalve70 I really think you need to look into that a bit more. Norway got a better return on the oil extracted. Population is irrelevant. I said noting of how the returns were distributed. Norway setup Statoil a nationalised entity to extract and manage the oil. They then chose to invest the profits which they were not sharing with private companies from exporting the oil into a sovereign wealth fund that is now worth trillions!
@@Miks2092Norway got a better return on the oil extracted. That's true. That's because we basically added a 50% tax on top of the normal corporate tax. So oil companies have been paying 78% tax or something along those lines.
UK could have done the same. But so could every other oil producing country. And I'm not sure how many of them did. So that's still not the same as squandering way the money.
Population is VERY relevant. I don't know how much oil has been produced in UK. But someone else in this comment section claimed it was less than what Norway has produced.
So if you have roughly equal amounts of money, and one country has to spend that on 5 mill people, and the other country has to spend it on 65 mill people, then it's obvious that population is very relevant.
True, Norway chose to invest the money, rather than spend it all. But the reason for that, was because of our low population. We literally COULDN*T spend all of the money, without having a huge inflation that would basically squander all of it.
So again, we're back to population. With such a small population, we had too much money, and basically had to save it.
Let me compare: If you win £1million on the lottery, then you could invest the money, and basically be set for life.
But if you and your extended family won £1million, and you had to share it with 20 people, then it wouldn't be anywhere close to enough to invest and retire.'
As for how many trillions the Norwegian Oil Fund is worth, that depends on which currency you use.
It's just over 2 million NOK per capita. Which means it's probably about 1 trillion GBP.
There is another set of islands: The Shetlands. I been to the Orkney Islands and the Shetland Islands about 50 years ago and loved my journeys there. I was just wondering if there is an consternations with Shetland Islands
Been to Shetland last year. Lovely place.
No, I don't know of the Shetlands. I do know Shetland, I assume that is what you mean. Or if you must you can call it the Shetland Islands, but definitely not The Shetlands, there is no such thing. This is one of many reasons why people in Orkney and Shetland don't really feel part of the UK, because people chiefly in England think they know everything about Orkney and Shetland, even what these places are called (not). But yes, Shetland or Hjaltland as some people in Shetland still like to call it, is an amazing place.
@@Seoras111 The Shetlands are a thing. It is short for the Shetland Islands.
There are, but there isn't also the elephant in the room of renewables for Shetland so much. Orkneys distance to the mainland means it should be far more involved than it is with power sent undersea back to the mainland. This doesn't satisfy Westminster, Edinburgh or the more conservative English voter though, so it's not had anywhere near the investment it should have put into it in the last decade. It's basically a potential gold mine but no-one wants the miners to get rich in the process.
@@Seoras111 most people in England don't give a shit about the Shetlands Shetland the Shetland islands Orkney .....
Christ get over yourself.....
The Orkney and Shetland have always thrived best when they have been part of Norway. Both archipelagos were illegally annexed by Scotland for over 500 years.
I expected this as soon as Scotland started demanding independence and using the north sea oil as their means of funds. If/when Orkney joins Norway, this will take a massive part of that North Sea oil.
Why did you refer to the Brexit referendum as 'infamous' ?
because it was bogus, it was not binding and it was a 51 to 49% vote on a decision any sane person would have required a 2/3 majority for.
And a certain bias comes into play there I am sure.
@@vHindenburg It was not bogus! It was s democratic vote given to the people in a referendum. The fact is is that our "politicians", many of whom have their snouts in the EU's trough, have used delaying tactics, blocking reforms and every form of underhand tactic to stop us ever leaving the EU. That is where the "bias" lies. And if you think that politicians, and the EU, have the people's interests at heart then you are very, very mistaken. All they care about is their massive pay packets paid by blinkered British taxpaying sheep.
It's no secret that the Picks lived in harmony with Viking pirates and the DNA composition of the islands population today, leans heavy to the Scandinavians, which is also the case with those that frequent the north in Scotland.
DNA evidence suggests possibly the opposite but we can't be certain. Male DNA shows a higher percentage of Scandavania and Female native Pict/Gael/Briton. Suggests the maternal lines and paternal lines are unique enough that Nordic men settled with native women. Considering Viking culture was a pirate's life likely the local men were slaughtered in battle and the women were taken as wives.
Some are starting the explore similar options in the Western Isles. One possibility being considered is that those isles were sparsely populated and so the natives were wiped out in the first Viking raids but a over fairly short period of time through trade the Nords and Gaels mixed and that is how the Nordic-Gaels came about.
The way I see it is the smarter an animal is the more likely it is to get what it wants, unfortunately, humans are the smartest and so genocide, rape, and robbery seem like sensible options if it gets you what you want. Most men can empathise with the want for a wive, land, kids, and enough wealth to look after it all. If you can steal all that and be seen as 'honorable' by your peers you're likely not going to think twice about it.
@@UkSapyy "Nordic men settled with native women" There can be no DNA female line if Vikings look native wives.
Norwegian university studies now show that there's a strong Viking female DNA presence on the Orkney and Shetland island. And the same goes for northern Scotland.The Vikings took their wives with them.
Picts buddy they may even have Scandinavian origins
@@Valhalla88888 This is a fantasy. The Picts are native to Britain and their language was a P Celtic tongue, like Brythonic, Gaulish and modern Welsh and Breton. Do you actually know what you’re talking about? Thought mp t.
Most of the genetic origin has been there since the ice age. Yes there is some Norse legacy but it's not like they exterminated the locals when they arrived, they just took political control.
Much Norwegian history on Orkney. Norway does have a close relationship with England (much Norwegian history there as well). so this would have to be done with their blessing, i guess? Idk...
Anyway, people of Orkney are always and will always be welcome in Norway!
I'm Norwegian and would welcome the Orkney Islands "back home"
I think the vast majority of Norwegians would do the same.
1. I don't know why "International Law" is ever mentioned. It exists only in the imagination of wishful thinkers and lawyers.
2. The Orkneys (poor things) are not the only ones neglected by central government, be it London, Cardiff, or Edinburgh.
I didn't mention Belfast because that seems a lost cause and I doubt if even the ROI would want to take on Northern Ireland.
As far as England is concerned, If it is outside the M25, then tough luck.
For Wales, you didn't vote the way Drakeford & cronies wanted in the Brexit referendum, so it serves you right.
Scotland- that's what you get for voting in a one-trick party with a self-interested First Minister with a motorhome.
3. The Orkneys- I do understand that Ferry services around there are a cause for concern, amongst other things, so I am not totally without sympathy.
4. This reminds me of the time that the Florida Keys were sorely neglected by the US Government, so Key West declared independence as "The Conch Republic". It did have the desired effect, so perhaps this may work.
NI is a basket case and ROI doesn’t want them and gave up its claim nearly thirty years ago. Most conservative MPs have constituencies hundreds of miles from the M25. Sunak represents Richmond in Yorkshire, Truss south west Norfolk. Starver is a London MP, as is Corby. Millipede grew up and lives in Primrose Hill. The majority of MPs inside the M25 are of course Labour.
@@Joanna-il2ur Dublin only officially gave up it's claim on the 6 as a means of passing the Good Friday Agreement which legally sets out a way for Irish Unity. A vast majority of those in the 26 are in favour of unity. It's only a matter of time.
@@shred_hand_of_ulster Fine, have the place. We never wanted it. Blame the Liberals.
They would be better trying to achieve Crown Dependency Status like the Isle of Man.
Which Crown? the English Crown or the Scots Crown? There are two crowns in Britain and Britain only came into existence with the political and economic treaty between Scotland and England in 1707.
Orkney is a part of Scotland, came to Britain with Scotland, will leave Britain with Scotland when it dissolves its treaty with England.
@@fuzzle9392 I think you’re missing an important part in British history, the union of the crowns when they became one crown and today they are the British crown
@@chrishilton3626 I didnt miss anything.
No, there are still two Crowns with two respective oaths represented by one single Monarch. Only the oath to the English Crown is now taken, the Scottish oath is ignored, for a reason.
There are two forms of Sovereignty under the unified Crown. The Crown, which is not Sovereign in Scotland under Scots Constitutional Law, but it is in England.
The difference between Scotland and England is that the Crown is not Sovereign in Scotland whilst in England the Crown is Sovereign. This still stands and did not change with the Treaty of Union of 1707. This was done via the separation of the two forms of Constitutional Law by maintaining the two forms of Law as separate.
The rights of the Crown remain different and distinct between Scotland and England despite the Union.
@@chrishilton3626 The issue with Britain is that it has been assumed that everything Scottish went out of the door with the Treaty of Union and that it was only English concepts of Crown and Parliament that remained post 1707.
This has never been the case.
Scotland did not become England with the Treaty. Nor did it adopt any English attributes or concepts centred on Crown or Parliament.
@@fuzzle9392 oh, I’m sorry, but you did miss something There is only one crown, the British crown United crown of Scotland and England the Scottish and English crown don’t exist anymore. It was Scotland which king James the sixth of Scotland, cousin of the last Tudor, Elizabeth the first which united the crowns of Scotland and England into one crown under one monarchy, Stuart monarchs cousins of the Tudors it was, then it became the British crown and later solidified with unification of Scotland and England
Production value of this is quite high, especially considering you have less than 1k subs. Did I finally stumble upon one of those small channels that turns out big in the end and I can claim I was there?
Norway is developing its North Sea oil and gas to support their economy and improve the standard of living of its people. If UK would do the same, they too, could benefit.
The Tories would rather enrich themselves than their country or constituents so they find it more profitable to sell drilling licenses to foreign companies while pocketing a percentage of the sale and guaranteeing a lucrative job on that company's board once they retire from politics. They are asset strippers who sold off every industry this country has ever had so that now our cars are built by Germany, our power plants are built by France and our planes are built by the US. How a Tory voter can even look themselves in the mirror has always baffled most Scots, it must be like amputating your arms and expecting yourself to work better.
Check out today's new. 11/08/2023 Sunak has just said that he wants to develop north sea oil and gas to help resolve the UK@s energy issues.
Norway owns ~54% of North Sea and UK owns the rest. What the hell did UK do with all their oil money?
UK has thirteen times the population of Norway - do the sums. @@V3ntilator
People dont mention this but the thing is that there is far more oil on the Norwegian side then the British side
If we could get competition among nations based on democracy rather than conquest, it might have benefits. It might also lead to problems. Might be something best done within countries between counties or cities or school districts.
that's done in the USA in politics, called jerry mandering. it doesn't end well. it's used by those in power now to exclude and neutralize groups (chop one group into parrts in four counties, nullifying their vote, for instance!!
While not from Orkney or Norway, I fully support Orkney's right to join Norway again if Norway will have them back.
Norway wants them back. There is no question about that.
But the government of Norway doesn't want to interfere in internal UK discussions about independence.
But if it ever gets to the point where Whitehall allows Orkney to rejoin Norway, you can be pretty sure the Norwegian government would welcome them back immediately.
Orkney does not have a right to join Norway. Did you not watch the video?
This is an internal matter for Orkney, as a Norwegian I would have no objection if former territories would like to join as a county or in some other way. Norwegians was sick of being ruled from Copenhagen and Stockholm, resources was drained and investments done elsewhere, was dragged into wars of no interest. In 1905 we proclaimed independence as a sovereign state, no regrets, best decision ever. Denmark and Sweden are not bad countries in any shape or form, but distant government had little understanding of local matters like e.g. management of sea resources, we good friends with Danes and Swedes, but we just know local things like fish better. If we make a mistake, we are empowered to correct it. EU been terrible at fishing policies, Mediterranean is the most overfished sea in the world. Not sure exactly why Orkney consider different governance, but the same happened in Norway and Iceland, both are non EU members. This means freedom to have our own fishing policies, they been way better than the management of EU waters. The two countries UK import most of their seafood from, are Norway and Iceland, so we doing well as independent states, means UK get high-quality seafood, with sustainable policies, this is something we intend to provide long-term. Something like 6 of 10 most important UK fish stocks, are overfished, when doing that year after year, the fish stock can collapse.
“no existing legal pathway”😅 or whatever he said at the end… which he was just saying what London said. But it’s like… right right right because all throughout history most countries declaring independence has always been legal right? Right. No. There are exceptions, certainly. Orkneys ought to just say, we are independent now. Or, we are a part of Norway now. And then, Norway would have to do a “reverse revolution” forcing them back to Scotland😅
Just remember, the UK left the EU using a legal pathway.
And I bet if one is created for Scotland or whoever in the future, it will require more than a simple 50% majority.
No, Norway couldn't do that, because if they're ever part of Norway, the constitution would forbid it. The scots would have to put their big boy skirts on and come fight over it.
@@HrHaakonfight and lose.
Norwegians conquered the island once they can do it again
Welcome home Orkenøyene!
Orknøyene.
What about Hjaltland? You didn't highlight it on your maps, so is this only discussed on Orkney?
More people will likely understand what you mean if you use the name Shetland instead of the Norse name Hjaltland.
The situation on Shetland is somewhat different from the Orkney Islands. That could be a separate video. But there are also similarities, as you are maybe hinting at.
The reason why this is only about Orkney, is because it's specifically in Orkney this is discussed now.
As a norwegian i cannot say we have a right to intervein. However, if the Orkneys were to join Norway they would most likely benefit greatly. Norway has a history of investing in many of its remote communities.
If this would ever come to pass it would leave the Shetland Islands out on a limb as they are even further from the Scottish mainland and nearer to Norway .
Shetland would follow suit as they are in the same situation as Orkney
@@user-pv8lp6ht3z That makes sense , certainly .
Aside from Norway and the UK, what is Scotland’s opinion about this
I say let them have a referendum. WM simply won't allow it. To do so opens a Pandora box for Scotland to be granted another. After all you cannot have a part of Scotland becoming independent before the mainland of Scotland itself.
They might see a future for the whole as well
@@benjamindejonge3624 What the whole of Scotland joining Norway?
Nothing to do with Scotland, its the Orkneys.
@tendrosstoodross2976 Well, actually, only Westminster has the power to grant the authority for any referenda on secession.
They are welcome to join us.
Love from Norway
Firstly there was nothing infamous about the Brexit Referendum as it was a de facto declaration of The UK's majority wish to to be released from the restrictive ties binding us to the corrupt EU.
If Orkney wish to form a form of connection with Norway then they should be encouraged to do so subject to the majority of residents wishing this. Removing themselves from the disastrous and corrupt control of the SNP at Holyrood will give them a far more secure future.
Orkney and Shetland were transferred to the Scottish crown as part of the treaty of marriage of James (IV?) to Margret of Norway until Norway paid the agreed dowry. The dowry isn’t that big (3000 silver talers if memory serves) if Orkney council pays it on behalf of the Norwegian crown then they return to Norway. $3000 isn’t enough because someone is being obstructive and insisting on silver coins then the main difficulty would be finding a die to strike them with.
The Austrian mint still mints them, the silver is something like 25/30 pounds each.
Adjust for inflation it's probably a good few hundred billion by now :)
@@blackcatdungeonmastersfami5311Or 90,000 Euros, calculating from the price for actually purchasing silver coins from Austria. Hardly difficult for 22,000 people to cough up.
@@blackcatdungeonmastersfami5311
No, silver thaler is a specific coin, that's being minted, and you can buy them from the Austrian mint. 3000 silver thaler at ~25 US Thalers... I mean, dolars is not that much.
@@HrHaakon That's not the point, you've still got over 500 years of interest to pay. Say 2% interest for 500 years and you can take that original amount of silver and multiply by 20,000 :)
FYI, the islands were first settled six millennia back, by the neolithic Grooved Ware People, and who built sites like Skara Brae. The Celtic displacement of these first farmers, during the Bronze age, and later Iron age Pictish settlement replaced the majority of the FIRST and SECOND modern human populations of the islands, millennia after the initial settlement.
6,000 years ago God created Adam & Eve ..nice lie.
@@londonlion5179 Dufus if you had a real education you'd know the real St.Nicholas used to put gifts down chimneys to help orphaned or poor kids ect...
That's where the stories & facts come from.
And he actually had a red costume as he was a catholic Bishop...like cardinals do nowadays in the church.
And he was a real man as I've been to his burial tomb where that Saints bones are.
So people do pray to him to intercede to God & miracles did happen & probably still do.
So I have grown up with a REAL education & historical truth.
My education does not come from capitalistic coca cola commercials.
So what false man made beliefs do you have dufus?
As heaven has only Catholics as God is Catholic.
Must be pretty defecient of brain cells to disparage a great Saint who was a Holy Bishop & who helped out orphans, widows, elderly,sick , females looking for dowries to get married....& giving to families the 7 God given Catholic sacraments.
When your before Jesus when you die....& he reminds you of your mocking & disparging of his Holy followers & the day Christ was born for your salvation.....yep bone head people 🙄 who think they won't be judged for such dufusness.
@@Thomas-lg6jx Uranium-235 has a half life of 4.5 billion years, Decaying into lead, the existence of lead is one the simplest ways to disprove this.
Hang on the dup unionist loyalists terrorists bigots party say the world is only six thousand years old 😂😂😂😅😅 I know but that bunch of bigots really believe that bullshite 😅😅😅😂😂
@@Thomas-lg6jxAncestors of Australian Aborigines had already reached Australia 75,000 years ago.
The SNP is making such a mess of Scottish governance, what else can Orkney do but seek to leave?
The Orkney islands are 6 miles from the British coast and 260 miles from the Norwegian coast.
Do the Orkney citizens believe that they will get better transportation services from Norway?
Looking at falkland and other disputes; this council like many others believe they are a law onto them self. That we are just going to let them hand the islands over to a foreign government is idiotic.
Maybe we need to ask ourselves just why exactly so many people in the UK wish either for independence for their particular country, or to be part of another country?
@@freebornjohn6876 For some of us the answer is so obvious that the question does not even need to be asked.
They are Scottish Islands and came to Britain with the live standing bi-lateral political and economic treaty between Scotland and England. These islands are Scottish and have been so for more than 500 years now.
Well the Scots are against the English sovereign won't miss them if the orkneys want to be Norwegian
What do you propose ? Going to war like Thatcher did or maybe do a Putin on it and just invade ? Be careful with the word " idiotic"
If we were to use current international law to overide ancient land acquisitions the whole World would be up for grabs.
I understand that the Orkney Islands would currently do better if they became a part of Noway but historically they would have been worse off without the protection Great Britain afforded them. Let's not be fair weather friends, Orcadians. You have a duty to us too.
>Doesn't funnel any money into a region leaving it destitute in terms of public works
>BuT YoU CaNt LeAvE GuYs
>Surprised pikachu
As a Norwegian I still welcome this with open arms
Scotland was not absorbed into the United Kingdom - the two kingdoms of England and Scotland created the Union together.
The Shetland Islands, if anything *should* be part, or an atonomois region, of Norway as it too has historic ties to Scandinavia and, above all, is actually geographicslly halfway between Norway and msinland UK/Scotland. Something worth postulating.
If Britain went with a federal system, devolving power away from Whitehall and into regional governments, Orkney and Shetland could be there own region/state, with their own abilities over lawmaking and local policy
When the people speak English, have vast majority Scottish DNA, learn Scottish history, benefit from Scottish education system. You could take anyone from Shetland place them in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Fife, Dundee or Aberdeen or the borders and you wouldn't be able to disguish them from other Scots. Why do foreigners always speak up on Scottish matters?
@@LS-jv9hp You have a First Minister that does (& he's of Pakistani origin, sworn in, in his native Punjabi language and in a Muslim religious ceremony)!
@@sanchoodell6789 First of all he was born in Scotland and lived his whole life there. Second he was sworn in English not punjabi and in whats a Christian ceremony (know the part swearing to king and country, that's Christian in origin).
This shit was literally televised. Nice try you racist ret"rd, again proving you're a foreigner with zero knowledge of Scotland, it's people or it's customs.
//I'd link the video as well but youtube deletes them, though I imagine while you are ret'rded, you should still be able to copy and paste this into a search bar: Humza Yousaf sworn in as first minister of scotland
As a Norwegian I would welcome Orkney to join us if it should get this far..... However I think Great Briton (whats left of it) should perhaps try to do more to satisfy there inhabitants and not only bow down for the big sharks......
What's left of it ? Great Britain (That would be England, Wales and Scotland) occupies the same amount of territory as has it has done for centuries.
@@H-Zazoo There is nothing great about britain. It is not a country. england is now a dictatorship and Scotland has been colonised
Great Britain is the name of the largest island in the group. It is a geographic term.
I’m British - Norwegian, and it seems British people on the whole (especially the majority in England) blindly vote for the governments that destroy the country and make life worse- for the 48% of us, leaving EU and our current government couldn’t be a worse idea. Much love to Norway from the Uk :)
As a Brit whose family and I still bear the Norse surname we acquired nearly a thousand years ago in Orkney I'd be delighted if Orkney reunited with Norway. Even as children our parents told us that we weren't really Scottish, we are really Norwegian. Cultural identification is that strong.
I agree that UK governments should do more to serve the British people, much more. But their shark-chasing subservience has now ensured that the UK has taken on many of the characteristics of second and third world countries. It'll take generations to climb out of this mess, if ever. So, if Norway were to resume sovereignty of Orknøjar, we might well find that the population there suddenly increases by tens of thousands of 'not really Scottish/not really British' people coming home!
Great video
Orkney costs Scotland a lot of money to run their services. I live in Edinburgh and we get *substantially* less local government funding proportionally than Orkney does. I would be happy to see Orkney leave and be paid for by someone else.
Very interesting. Next time I’m in Scotland I’ll visit these beautiful islands.
If Orkney joined Norway, it's supplies, distribution and prices would jump to that of Norway or similar. But wages would take a long time to catch up and would bankrupt many businesses. Norway would be better going in alone as a crown dependency, like Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man, where wealth is greater than the UK, but prices are reasonable and there would be a lot less disruption.
It's 22k people all in a single location, this is absolutely not an issue. Nowhere close, subsidising them during the transition would be easy.
I dont think so pound is pretty expensive. Much more expensive than Norway's currency. The real expense in Norway is the real estate and I am sure in an island that wont be a problem at all. Except that Norway isnt that expensive to live so I think it wont be an issue at all.
Considering the small population and the distance from mainland Norway there might be a solution similar to the Norwegian island of Svalbard up in the artic, It's a tax free area to keep the cost down.
Thery have both applied to become crown dependencies whether Scotland leaves the UK or not. This is an interesting video but completely irrelevant to reality.
No they wouldnt, prices would still be that of the local place.
As a Norwegian I say they are welcome if they want to join!
They are indeed welcome to join us!
They get no financial help to solve their problems and they are told "You are not allowed leave, keep paying us taxes. Also we will exploit your resources".
Welp, time to pick up those guns boys.
I feel like their legal argument isn't strong. Applying modern laws and standards to something that happened 500 years ago; With that reasoning, almost no country has any legal claim to the land it sits on
They are certainly making a point. One which a lot of Scots totally agree with. Get us out of this union as we will be better off without our resources going into the pockets of tories
where did our modern laws originate. law lasts a long time.....
@@louc2464 Not really, in this case. It was legal when the land was transferred
@@michaelbaker5501The land was never transferred on a permanent basis. It was a COLLATERAL for the dowry. To be returned when the dowry was paid.
But the honourless Scottish kings refused to accept the dowry.
There is a legal mechanism by which the ilands can change their status under British, Scotish and international law - War.
Might makes right, or more precicely, those who have the power get their way, is a law of nature and thus present everywhere.
Ate you channeling “The Mouse that Roared”?
@@bwake No idea what youre talking about.
tbh i don't think the uk and norway are going to war any time soon.
Wow so edgy
@@maalikserebryakov What?
How bad is your ability to govern, if so many parts of the nation want to leave? But the government won't see it that way, it's never their fault.
The islands are run by the Scottish government.... 😅
Choice between SNP run Scotland or Norway isn’t really that difficult is it?
You mean Tory run Scotland, (which we've never voted for).
I’m not remotely a fan of tories but the SNP record on education and public health is wholly resible. Going from SNP Scotland to Norway is a no Brainer for these islands.
Just a quick note about the use of the word “national”. Generally, although admittedly not always, the word “national” refers to Scotland (or England, or Wales). Usually “national” does not refer to the UK. So, the national government of Scotland would generally be understood to be the Scottish Government, not the UK Government.
Out of curiosity: what is then the correct adjective to address Westminster as the UK government?
@@Cornu341 In Scotland, Westminster will be called "Westminster" or "The UK Government". You couldn't refer to it as the national government. Some might refer to it as "the government" but I think that's rare, because it's ambiguous.
The Scottish Government is not really the Scottish Government though. It is a devolved portion of the British Parliament the same as Wales and Northern Ireland. It is to maintain the hold that England has over the other nations that make up the UK.
You'll have to understand the meaning of "devolved", it means that England retains the power. The devolved Parliament were a con job which England is gradually attempting to roll back on. They are making a rod for England's back there, seeing as the devolved Parliaments were in fact forced via the international community. Next time it wont go in England's favour given England's rather obvious sleight of hand as evinced by England's continued controlling game play.
Time is running out for Britain going forwards and they have burned their bridges and left themselves with no way out.
It's normal to call it the government by 60 million people plus, Scotland , N Ireland and Wales combined have 15% of the UK population the rest is England. Shame we don't have an English government. Cut the dead weight and the constant complaints. their mps are useless and failing at eveything, even more so than the British government
Rather pedantic. The rest of the world might think of Washington as the seat of national US government, but legally it's the federal govt, as is Berlin for Germany, and no doubt numerous others.
For a foreign audience, it makes perfect sense to think of Westminster as being the seat of the national government of the UK. I know Scots often like to think of themselves as different, but essentially Holyrood serves the same purpose for Scotland as Munich does for Bavaria.
Just for the fact checker orkney was handed to the king of scotland over 550 years ago ie 1472 when the king of Norway Denmark Sweden could not pay for his daughters wedding same old story but orkney is integral to Scotland its not a private asset❤
Does Orkney agree with you?
@@thefirm4606 It doesn't matter if Orkney agrees or not, it is what is historically factual that counts.
Orkney is a Scottish political constituency, that is all that it is and it has never been anything other than a part of one nation or another.
Both Orkney and Shetland are an integral part of Scotland and have been for more than 500 years. In fact those islands have been a part of Scotland almost as long as they belonged to Norway/Denmark/Sweden after being taken by force by the Vikings.
Neither Norway nor Denmark is interested in, nor has any claim to, those Scottish islands.
@@fuzzle9392 They may not have a claim but they'd be stupid not to have an interest, Denmark would happily accept a few thousand people into their fold if it gave them access to oil fields.
The people of the islands should decide and the government of the country they want to belong to. Otherwise why did the UK fight for the Falkland Islands? You can’t have it both ways and if you don’t come from Orkney, it is none of your business (or mine, before you say it)
@@micheleedwin4004 You could use the same argument that you are considering and apply it to anywhere globally. The question is, at which point in human history do we start to apply your argument from and where does it not apply.
Using your argument the world could revert to some unrecognisable pre historical condition based on some intangible localised identity and feeling.
Let us consider for example the indigenous people of America and how they feel about their territory. What about Norway and who it may potentially belong to on some arbitrarily projected timeline?
Then we have the second point of your argument centred on the "Falkland Islands" and the "UK" fighting for them. Yes, the UK "fighting", a messy business.
The problem for Orkney is that it has belonged to one nation or another for over 1100 years and has never been anything other during that time than owned.
It is internationally recognised and settled that Orkney, Shetland, any other of the Scottish Island's, are and have been for over 550 years a part of Scotland and by way of bi-lateral treaty a part of the UK for some 316 years. Neither Norway or Denmark lay any official claim to the Orkney islands or Shetland outside of any lunatic fringe element.
Orkney was taken via conquest and lost in a game of political and geo-strategic chess. It is settled for Orkney.
Anyway, the Orkney and Shetland argument pops up with a frequency that matches any potential for Scotland to secede from the UK via its terms of treaty with England. I always look on It as just a British state psyop utilised to confuse and confound.
Despite how Orkney and Shetland feel, they are a part of Scotland and will remain so.
It would be difficult for Orkney to move to Norway unless Shetland did so as well. I do not think there is any enthusiasm in Shetland for this.
Both Orkney and Shetland have much greater issues with the Scottish SNP government than with the UK.
They have been badly treated by the Scottish government for years.
My first thought was that it's a political ploy. What surprised me was that it actually once was Norway.
So too were the Zetlunds !
Amazes me that people do not know their history
A lot of England was Norwegian/Danish under Cnut
Both are true.
Interesting that UK vote to leave EU but don't like their own personal disputes claiming the laws and enforcing them
Indeed, anti-democratic authoritarian hypocrisy was always the main purpose of Brexit
@@Bertie_Ahern Norway is also not a part of the EU. So Orkney would not rejoin the EU.
It has nothing to do with the UK, it is a Scottish constitutional matter. The UK, Scotland and Norway are all sensible enough not to be in the EU and so what possible relivance could the EU have in this matter?
You will have to take your hatred of England and put it to one side if you want to understand this matter.
@@davidgreen6490 Scottish want to be in EU the brexit vote show the no won there
@@brunobastos5533 That is not actually true.
The population of Scotland is 5.4 million.
Only 2,679,513 voted in the referendum.
1,661,191 voted to remain and 1,018,322 voted to leave, giving remain a winning margin of merely 642,869 votes.
If you can do your maths that means less than 27% of the Scottish population voted to remain in the EU.
I will repeat that for clarity -
LESS THAN 27% OF THE SCOTTISH POPULATION VOTED TO REMAIN IN THE EU.
If they are successful will scotch from the islands be rebranded as notch?
Probably "Ortch".
Last I heard they wanted to leave Scotland and remain in the U.K. and become a crown dependency.
I think country borders should nowadays be separated from what culture(s) live there.
It made sense in the past, but if we promote that thought nowadays, then f.ex India could just forcefully send/migrate a few hundred million people to Edinburgh, make the original Scots a minority, and use that logic to say it's part of India according to established precedents.
The similar kind of thing Russia is doing to its neighbours and waging wars with that excuse.
In my opinion, cultural distinction is losing its significance as globalization will naturally mix them all up over a longer period of time.
There are plenty of restrictions in place already for immigration. In theory India could try, but the severe legal and practical limitations would make it impossible in practice
@@XGD5layer Oh, OK! I wonder if you could kindly drop the 'Border Control' people at Dover a line to tell them all that!?
@@iggle6448 sure they can let people in, but can they STAY in long enough to qualify for voting is the question
@@XGD5layer Well, quite!
Please keep producing videos @GrandStrategy! They’re awesome.
My great-grandparents were from Orkney. Orkney was a Norwegian earldom I think. Maybe I'm a Norwegian?
You are welcome to join us Orkney. I wouldn’t mind having my country’s border increase, hihi
Based on various referendum results and what I've heard from my relatives who live up there, it seems that the majority of Orcadians would not want to be part of an independent Scotland. Happy to be corrected if this has changed though. So there maybe an interesting question over their status if Scotland became independent.
Erm, what referendum results? No such referendums on the subject ever took place. 😂😂😂😂
@@helenaville5939 Scottish independence referendum, and the previous referendum in the 90s about the creating of the Scottish parliament and increased devolution and I think there was one in the 70s too? Anyhow Orcadians have tended to vote emphatically against 'more Scotland' whenever the opportunity has arisen.
@@nickvickers3486 You're incorrect again. I repeat, no such referendums on the subject ever took place, the subject in this video being whether Orcadians wish to leave or remain as a part of Scotland. Your listing of unrelated referendums as if this tactic will somehow justify your original claim is actually amusing.
Until Orcadians take part in a referendum in which they are asked whether they wish to leave or remain as part of Scotland, you are reliant on mere guesswork. This is all I have to say on the issue. I wish you well regardless.
@@helenaville5939 honestly not that interested in the politics. I've visited the Islands a few times it's a fantastic destination to visit, although sadly all my cousins have since moved from there. Didn't mean to cause any offense and hopefully you'll get the result you want from this issue. Have a good weekend!
@@helenaville5939Scotland did have a referendum though and voted to stay.
Edit. In the independence referendum 65.4% of people in the Orkneys voted to stay in the UK. They have also never elected a SNP candidate.