We’ve been saying the souls for AR are bad since the tree first came out & here we still are. And now, fel scarred is cooked because of bad design and shortsighted tuning. It’s like you said, with all these changes, havoc would’ve been better off getting no hero talents at all
@@remaker3 souls felt fine on ptr since we use fel blade so much now to collect them, but that was with the bug giving us 30-40% more than intended 💀 Just a rough place to be
@ it’s so unfortunate to have AR only feel good because of a bug 😭 at this point if the only change we got in tww was screaming brutality & the new cycle we’d be in a better place than where we are right now lol fingers crossed realz cooks in the last few weeks of ptr I guess
It's ok they'll prolly rework hunters for a 4th time and then spend the rest of the time working out how to buff enhance again without the community knowing it before they remember we exist. In DF everyone thought Realz was the hero of the day but if he's actually working on DH right now it makes it seem like DF was a pure fluke. A couple months into the tier they'll prolly do another CS/ANN/Fel Blade/Demon Blades 10% buff and then ignore us til the end of the 11.2 ptr. And, if the S1 tier set ends up being better in AoE than our S2 set they'll make sure to nerf that really quickly without any compensation.
Really wish they added more value for casting BDance in our rotation, doesn't even have to be a direct damage buff. For AR it could be as simple as every 3 slashes of BDance shatters an additional soul fragment or something. For FS they would have to tune the damage that Burning Blades does from TG to be higher for it to be worth it to press BDance outside of Meta windows.
@@andreasvanheyst ya it’s a huge gripe of mine that blade dance doesn’t have more hooks in our talent tree, I’m glad they brought screaming brutality back, but aside from that if it’s not tuned enough there’s no reason to push it
Tbh realz is a horrible dev that should be replaced with someone who actually likes and understands the class. Its so clear he doesn’t play or care about havoc at all, he is just doing something because its a job.
Man I was happy about the prospect of Havoc being a high performing spec from the last wave of changes but I can't stomach being at the bottom when I have a fully prepped DK
@@caeleseus we’ll see what happens from here, I think they were fine if one of the two trees was lower but both being bad probably means we’ll get tuned soon
@@caeleseus I’m hesitant if they’ll do a soul gen increase for AR, although I’m hopeful they will. BD buff is like 99% going to happen, since I know Realz doesn’t like the idea of a “no blade Dance” build, but I think it’ll be for the base spec, not just for FS
please make the hunt instacast! /s bladedance kinda needs more love for both hero talents maybe making BD always shattering a soul on AR to give AR a more deterministic way of generating souls while Sigils and Hunt are on cooldown and we NEED that blade dance reset tier set as a permanent talent, it really feels good
I think DH is too broken to fix now. Another big problem that no one talks about is DH just feels like it does (high) pad damage with no kill potential. in 3v3 it literally has no kill potential outside of eyebeam EB combo and I would barely call that a kill window. Do devs look at that dmg? In solo shuffle havoc dh has a lower win rate than most of the tanks besides Veng. Ive been trying to play fury warrior but its just a less fun version of DH, even if its worse. What do we play next season?
It all looks very sad. 'Souls as resource for havoc' is a very bad concept. Literally EVERYONE was reporting it during TWW beta. Now it backfires weeks before s2, exactly when Blizzard decided they want to bring Aldrachi back from oblivion... no comments. 😑 @VooDooSaurus , I hope you guys reported this whole souls generation thing and its damage impact to the devs.
I am sure we will get they typical aura buff to the same four abilities, which will do nothing to fix the problems with the builds and that will be it.
Im starting to think Realz needs to be replaced, like all of this, feels like hes just don with us complaining and is just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks.
we know its doomed. everything everyones been doing is coping. once everyone realizes this and plays something else and numbers drop then theyll do something drastic about havoc.
Guess I won't be returning for 11.1. Gameplay wise it's insane how bad these trees are, fel scarred loses on demonic uptime while revaer playes ST, this alone is so dumb lol. But to get back in a situation where a build doesn't even press BD tells u how clueless they are about designing the actual gameplay.
AR felt really good in m+ while I was testing over the last few days and the damage was pretty good. I was keeping up with my enh shaman. It took me like an hour to get used to but it feels like a good mix between df s1 and s3 playstyles, which were very good imo. They could do something so simple to fix AR souls if they just made a hero talent like "BD gives you 2 souls" or something. Doesn't matter as much in AOE, and would make it easier to not care about souls in AOE. But it would help fix ST damage and playstyle. Maybe a 20 sec sigil of flame to smooth things out. It would reward you a LOT when min maxing souls on the ground, and it would be easy to manage because it gives us a reason to position, plan, or fel rush to grab them. But if you don't, you're still avg. That's what the community has been asking for for a long time; something to do that's hard as f that makes you do top damage. The tier set sucks but oh well, what's new.
@@tjb2007 happens sometimes when a big bug is found. Video on Friday was made before they did a new build on Friday that finally implemented Wounded Quarry. We go to test over the weekend and realize it’s still been giving us souls this whole time
Yikes as hell. I've liked playing Aldrachi a lot, but if I'm getting 30-40% less souls, that is gonna feel WAY worse. I've never liked fel-scarred and it looks like it's getting even less fun. I was optimistic thinking havoc might be a great spec in 11.1, but I guess it's time to look at some backups. I think it might be too late for the team to make a significant enough pivot to preserve the gameplay, even if the spec is tuned up to be in line with its competition. Guess we'll see, hope I'm wrong!
Its funny, it seems like the devs dont want DH to have fun. We waited a whole season to receive a sigle change, and the second they tries to make a spec “fun”, they nerf the soul generation hah.
I gave up on havoc after 2 months in TWW with no buffs in m+ and went ret. Now i am learning WW and enhance and will continue to play ret next season. I dont plan on playing havoc at all next season which sucks because it is my favorite class. It is just not competitive in m+ and I am not raiding so there is no need to play havoc.
I wonder Blizz likes the gameplay and either leaves the bug in for the season or they adjust our soul generation. It does feel a lot worse to play AR when you can't successfully chase the full uptime Thrill of the Fight.
Nobody asked for Hero talents. Keep iterating on the class and spec trees would be a waaaay better dev time investment. They wanted something to market the expansion, they got some hype, shipped garbage and created a balancing hell. Hope they ditch them in midnight.
I was expecting a full rework given the silent treatment they’ve been giving us. I was satisfied with the changes last week, not a rework but at least we were doing well. But now, dev can’t even do minor modifications without breaking everything…SMH
Buddy, I rerolled to hunter 3 weeks ago to gear up for next season. I've mained DH getting CE every tier since BFA, but it's over. The class is dead, wild that Havoc rn is worse than it was in Shadowlands, that's a feat.
@@Obsidian0Sky fel scarred holds it to pair with meta because of inertia. Aldrachi doesn’t hold it because it gives you a glaive (at least as of right now)
@@DudeWheresMyCardzcontroversial take but paly isn't that much easier to play than dh once you run into the 12+ key range. They have so much utility and decision making that impacts boss fights and key completion. Yes the rotation isn't comparable but DH is just do damage and kick.
they should just revert DH to Legion version, put some of artifact/legendary effects as talents and maybe disable blade dance s for pvp. Done. Fixed. Next
What a disaster. I always wanted a 3rd spec. but they can't even get the one we have right. Why is so hard to fix and make the spec more fun and the hero talents decent? aldrachi reaver has potential to add a different playstye but no. They rather ignore it.
Hopefully they just bake the old WQ into the new one. I'm optimistic. Changes have been mostly good so far. Don't see why they wouldn't fix the soul generation. Still got a few more weeks.
@@djflawkinztv9499 honestly I’d prefer they just up CS chance to give you one, and have each reaver’s glaive give you 2. The old WQ effect was a bit problematic for uptime, it is a good thing it’s gone Adding something where tg could cleave one would also be nice
Yeah I'd be fine with anything as long as the soul gen feels smooth. Very excited for this spec. I am glad you brought up the current power of our tier set on live. We will be losing a lot by dumping it. I actually really like the BD/Annihilation resets. Current live FS feels overall good to me, so I think if they just give it a felblade reset and maybe fix the whole holding Hunt, should be mostly alright for now.
worst dh design yet worst flow feeling yet worst talent rework yet(except that 2 point talent moved to one(which is more of a fix)) thinking about skipping this patch entirely now
So, some advice for the broader community, Fel-Scarred is actually playing quite well and will be great in most keys that the VAST majority of players are doing. If you learn your buttons, read your skills, and understand the fights you will be absolutely, 100%, fine. The PROBLEM is watching stuff like this and everyone dooming about the spec. In reality, it’s the absolute top 0.5% of players that REALLY notice the meta impact. You will get KSM and KSH on any DH spec you want to play if you understand the spec. There are NO limitations on how good you can be at the spec to achieve those goals. THAT is what everyone in the community needs to understand. Sure, some specs pump harder or play better, but that matters in a +19, not a +10. Believe me, as a loooooong time DH player, we will be absolutely fine. And, just as a note, making videos dooming really only contributes to negative opinions about the class and leads to them not getting them invited to keys because it influences community opinion. You can address potential problems within the class without using words like “doom” or being hyperbolic about the state of the spec. The state of the spec is “It’s got some minor gameplay issues and may not feel the best right now, but you will put up great numbers if you learn the class well.”
Legion DH was fun, like stop forcing dumb movements for dmg amp.... Just let me hit Eye beam and focus around it. I only play vdh since shadowland because i like bombing trash in M+.
@@Sjako7361 I don’t think those warlock sims are super accurate, or are to the same degree as these. Warlock sims are often at weird ilvls or with weird gear. they’ve been doing a lot better in actual testing (again unless huge bugs or changes happened recently)
@VooDooSaurus i saw Kalamazzi over at Liquid post them, given the aff Sims were with destro optimized gear but still all mythic tier etc, still lower than this.. in fact the highest sim dps was destro with RoF aoe spender rather than Chaos Bolt, if thats say something about how rough Warlock is atm 😅
thanks doing what you do and sharing us the info. might be time to find another game to play again
We’ve been saying the souls for AR are bad since the tree first came out & here we still are. And now, fel scarred is cooked because of bad design and shortsighted tuning.
It’s like you said, with all these changes, havoc would’ve been better off getting no hero talents at all
@@remaker3 souls felt fine on ptr since we use fel blade so much now to collect them, but that was with the bug giving us 30-40% more than intended 💀
Just a rough place to be
@ it’s so unfortunate to have AR only feel good because of a bug 😭 at this point if the only change we got in tww was screaming brutality & the new cycle we’d be in a better place than where we are right now lol fingers crossed realz cooks in the last few weeks of ptr I guess
It's ok they'll prolly rework hunters for a 4th time and then spend the rest of the time working out how to buff enhance again without the community knowing it before they remember we exist. In DF everyone thought Realz was the hero of the day but if he's actually working on DH right now it makes it seem like DF was a pure fluke. A couple months into the tier they'll prolly do another CS/ANN/Fel Blade/Demon Blades 10% buff and then ignore us til the end of the 11.2 ptr. And, if the S1 tier set ends up being better in AoE than our S2 set they'll make sure to nerf that really quickly without any compensation.
I appreciate you keeping us informed
from satisfactory sims back to reality in a few days. what a roller coaster ride.
"We'd rather you didn't play Havoc" levels of attention paid for this patch cycle. I wish they'd just say ANYTHING in a dev note for us.
Really wish they added more value for casting BDance in our rotation, doesn't even have to be a direct damage buff. For AR it could be as simple as every 3 slashes of BDance shatters an additional soul fragment or something. For FS they would have to tune the damage that Burning Blades does from TG to be higher for it to be worth it to press BDance outside of Meta windows.
@@andreasvanheyst ya it’s a huge gripe of mine that blade dance doesn’t have more hooks in our talent tree, I’m glad they brought screaming brutality back, but aside from that if it’s not tuned enough there’s no reason to push it
Tbh realz is a horrible dev that should be replaced with someone who actually likes and understands the class. Its so clear he doesn’t play or care about havoc at all, he is just doing something because its a job.
voodoo told me he was gonna cook…
@ he cooked and his meal didn’t have any flavour…
I love my DH Voodoo, really, but to be in the bottom tier for 2 seasons and no real revamp or real change for DH are just too hard brother.
Man I was happy about the prospect of Havoc being a high performing spec from the last wave of changes but I can't stomach being at the bottom when I have a fully prepped DK
@@caeleseus we’ll see what happens from here, I think they were fine if one of the two trees was lower but both being bad probably means we’ll get tuned soon
@@VooDooSaurus So what changes are you thinking? Increase in soul gen for AR and a blade dance buff for FS?
@@caeleseus I’m hesitant if they’ll do a soul gen increase for AR, although I’m hopeful they will. BD buff is like 99% going to happen, since I know Realz doesn’t like the idea of a “no blade Dance” build, but I think it’ll be for the base spec, not just for FS
please make the hunt instacast! /s
bladedance kinda needs more love for both hero talents
maybe making BD always shattering a soul on AR to give AR a more deterministic way of generating souls while Sigils and Hunt are on cooldown
and we NEED that blade dance reset tier set as a permanent talent, it really feels good
@@furkeys114 100% the blade dance reset would be amazing as a talent
Been a terrible spec since the overnerfs in s3 df.
I think DH is too broken to fix now. Another big problem that no one talks about is DH just feels like it does (high) pad damage with no kill potential. in 3v3 it literally has no kill potential outside of eyebeam EB combo and I would barely call that a kill window. Do devs look at that dmg? In solo shuffle havoc dh has a lower win rate than most of the tanks besides Veng. Ive been trying to play fury warrior but its just a less fun version of DH, even if its worse. What do we play next season?
It all looks very sad.
'Souls as resource for havoc' is a very bad concept. Literally EVERYONE was reporting it during TWW beta. Now it backfires weeks before s2, exactly when Blizzard decided they want to bring Aldrachi back from oblivion... no comments. 😑
@VooDooSaurus , I hope you guys reported this whole souls generation thing and its damage impact to the devs.
I am sure we will get they typical aura buff to the same four abilities, which will do nothing to fix the problems with the builds and that will be it.
Im starting to think Realz needs to be replaced, like all of this, feels like hes just don with us complaining and is just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks.
we know its doomed. everything everyones been doing is coping. once everyone realizes this and plays something else and numbers drop then theyll do something drastic about havoc.
I stopped playing havoc I just can't do it anymore
I guess we are waiting for legion timewalking to play dh again...
Guess I won't be returning for 11.1. Gameplay wise it's insane how bad these trees are, fel scarred loses on demonic uptime while revaer playes ST, this alone is so dumb lol. But to get back in a situation where a build doesn't even press BD tells u how clueless they are about designing the actual gameplay.
AR felt really good in m+ while I was testing over the last few days and the damage was pretty good. I was keeping up with my enh shaman. It took me like an hour to get used to but it feels like a good mix between df s1 and s3 playstyles, which were very good imo.
They could do something so simple to fix AR souls if they just made a hero talent like "BD gives you 2 souls" or something. Doesn't matter as much in AOE, and would make it easier to not care about souls in AOE. But it would help fix ST damage and playstyle. Maybe a 20 sec sigil of flame to smooth things out. It would reward you a LOT when min maxing souls on the ground, and it would be easy to manage because it gives us a reason to position, plan, or fel rush to grab them. But if you don't, you're still avg. That's what the community has been asking for for a long time; something to do that's hard as f that makes you do top damage.
The tier set sucks but oh well, what's new.
time to find a new game.
Time to play Vengeance again. They are looking very good for Season 2 tanking.
@@adamtatusko if this was a bug with wounded quarry won’t that mean VDH soul gen will also be 30-40% less meaning less self sustain?
@ You’re probably right. R.I.P. DH.
Well this doesn’t like fun at all. Wonderful.
Why man, bless, please fix the only spec I like in the game!
Thanks as always Voodoo
Cool ... I needed a break
this feels unacceptable if we are only going to have one dps spec
Join the dark side young 1, who would of thought dh was going to be doomed the second our moron dev decided to nerf FS and force AR
@@Ufkndruggo I knew DH was fucked the day realz said he enjoyed sinful brand style game play
These videos are hilariously back and forth XD Glad I switched to Ret. Faceroll time.
@@tjb2007 happens sometimes when a big bug is found. Video on Friday was made before they did a new build on Friday that finally implemented Wounded Quarry. We go to test over the weekend and realize it’s still been giving us souls this whole time
Good choice.
Surely they'll see how bad this is and do something to fix it, right? RIGHT?!
Hm, hdh has been dead to me since sinful brand and eyebeam went away, i know, crazy right?
Yikes as hell. I've liked playing Aldrachi a lot, but if I'm getting 30-40% less souls, that is gonna feel WAY worse. I've never liked fel-scarred and it looks like it's getting even less fun. I was optimistic thinking havoc might be a great spec in 11.1, but I guess it's time to look at some backups. I think it might be too late for the team to make a significant enough pivot to preserve the gameplay, even if the spec is tuned up to be in line with its competition. Guess we'll see, hope I'm wrong!
Its funny, it seems like the devs dont want DH to have fun. We waited a whole season to receive a sigle change, and the second they tries to make a spec “fun”, they nerf the soul generation hah.
Blizzard just refuses to make Havoc good as usual. My sub will be lapsing. I'm tired of this.
Frost Dk here I come
Lol
The tier set looks awful
realz is quick to report and fix the things that help us, and not so quick to do anything to help us lol.
I gave up on havoc after 2 months in TWW with no buffs in m+ and went ret. Now i am learning WW and enhance and will continue to play ret next season. I dont plan on playing havoc at all next season which sucks because it is my favorite class. It is just not competitive in m+ and I am not raiding so there is no need to play havoc.
When you guys are simming, are you trying out like all possibilities? Or just what you think is correct? I mean have we tried haste vers? (xD)
I wonder Blizz likes the gameplay and either leaves the bug in for the season or they adjust our soul generation. It does feel a lot worse to play AR when you can't successfully chase the full uptime Thrill of the Fight.
Nobody asked for Hero talents. Keep iterating on the class and spec trees would be a waaaay better dev time investment. They wanted something to market the expansion, they got some hype, shipped garbage and created a balancing hell. Hope they ditch them in midnight.
I was expecting a full rework given the silent treatment they’ve been giving us. I was satisfied with the changes last week, not a rework but at least we were doing well. But now, dev can’t even do minor modifications without breaking everything…SMH
Buddy, I rerolled to hunter 3 weeks ago to gear up for next season. I've mained DH getting CE every tier since BFA, but it's over. The class is dead, wild that Havoc rn is worse than it was in Shadowlands, that's a feat.
Aldra-Key
Why are we holding the hunt? And when do we use it?
@@Obsidian0Sky fel scarred holds it to pair with meta because of inertia. Aldrachi doesn’t hold it because it gives you a glaive (at least as of right now)
Havoc is the most boring spec in wow right now. Needs some serious help. It’s such a boring rotation. I used to love havoc.
wydm? Warrior and Pala are braindead in comparison
@@DudeWheresMyCardzcontroversial take but paly isn't that much easier to play than dh once you run into the 12+ key range. They have so much utility and decision making that impacts boss fights and key completion. Yes the rotation isn't comparable but DH is just do damage and kick.
they should just revert DH to Legion version, put some of artifact/legendary effects as talents and maybe disable blade dance s for pvp. Done. Fixed. Next
why do you need to hold hunt?
fel scarred holds it to pair with meta because of inertia. Aldrachi doesn’t hold it because it gives you a glaive (at least as of right now)
What a disaster. I always wanted a 3rd spec. but they can't even get the one we have right. Why is so hard to fix and make the spec more fun and the hero talents decent?
aldrachi reaver has potential to add a different playstye but no. They rather ignore it.
Hopefully they just bake the old WQ into the new one. I'm optimistic. Changes have been mostly good so far. Don't see why they wouldn't fix the soul generation. Still got a few more weeks.
@@djflawkinztv9499 honestly I’d prefer they just up CS chance to give you one, and have each reaver’s glaive give you 2. The old WQ effect was a bit problematic for uptime, it is a good thing it’s gone
Adding something where tg could cleave one would also be nice
Yeah I'd be fine with anything as long as the soul gen feels smooth. Very excited for this spec. I am glad you brought up the current power of our tier set on live. We will be losing a lot by dumping it. I actually really like the BD/Annihilation resets. Current live FS feels overall good to me, so I think if they just give it a felblade reset and maybe fix the whole holding Hunt, should be mostly alright for now.
Meant to say Death Sweep resets*. Sorry havent had coffee. Lol
super news
Maybe its a good time to start another Game.
Or another dps. I am learning ww and enhance before S2 and those classes feel way better to play than DH
Comment for the algorithm.
guess what, i was right to doubt the meme glaive... it's anti fun to play and ill die on that hill.
@@HurensohnGoogle neither are very fun right now
@@VooDooSaurus aye 2 evils, 1 is lesser but i agree
worst dh design yet worst flow feeling yet worst talent rework yet(except that 2 point talent moved to one(which is more of a fix)) thinking about skipping this patch entirely now
So what should i main now? Lol
BM Hunter!
@adamtatusko i thought bm stunk?
@ Not in TWW Season 2. BM Hunter is S-Tier Meta with the best AOE and ST DPS.
So, some advice for the broader community, Fel-Scarred is actually playing quite well and will be great in most keys that the VAST majority of players are doing. If you learn your buttons, read your skills, and understand the fights you will be absolutely, 100%, fine.
The PROBLEM is watching stuff like this and everyone dooming about the spec. In reality, it’s the absolute top 0.5% of players that REALLY notice the meta impact. You will get KSM and KSH on any DH spec you want to play if you understand the spec. There are NO limitations on how good you can be at the spec to achieve those goals. THAT is what everyone in the community needs to understand. Sure, some specs pump harder or play better, but that matters in a +19, not a +10. Believe me, as a loooooong time DH player, we will be absolutely fine.
And, just as a note, making videos dooming really only contributes to negative opinions about the class and leads to them not getting them invited to keys because it influences community opinion. You can address potential problems within the class without using words like “doom” or being hyperbolic about the state of the spec. The state of the spec is “It’s got some minor gameplay issues and may not feel the best right now, but you will put up great numbers if you learn the class well.”
Are you from the Dev?? Lmao
Dh looks like ass especially for pvp next season. Guess ill skip the whole season. Cba maining a war or rdruid.
time to come to the dark side and play dk one
@@colorbowl2237 no!
Hopefully my guild don't drop me for a VDH :))
Legion DH was fun, like stop forcing dumb movements for dmg amp.... Just let me hit Eye beam and focus around it.
I only play vdh since shadowland because i like bombing trash in M+.
the rank 2 raid dps is dooming again
So Havoc beats every warlock build and you think this is bad :´D
@@Sjako7361 I don’t think those warlock sims are super accurate, or are to the same degree as these. Warlock sims are often at weird ilvls or with weird gear. they’ve been doing a lot better in actual testing (again unless huge bugs or changes happened recently)
@VooDooSaurus i saw Kalamazzi over at Liquid post them, given the aff Sims were with destro optimized gear but still all mythic tier etc, still lower than this.. in fact the highest sim dps was destro with RoF aoe spender rather than Chaos Bolt, if thats say something about how rough Warlock is atm 😅
Warlock doesn't suffer from the inherit terrible game play issues havoc does, imo, at least.
@@wardeagle1015 nah destro and demo is good, aff needs some help though