Why Italy wants France to Return half of Mont Blanc
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2024
- Mont Blanc (French) or Monte Bianco (Italian) is the highest mountain in the European Alps and has been a point of contention between France and Italy for years. Both countries have a territorial dispute going one, which not only includes Mont Blanc/Monte Bianco, but also the nearby areas of Pointe Helbronner and Dôme du Goûter.
Although France and Italy have a close economic, political and cultural relationship while being both part of the European Union, the issue over Mont Blanc/Monte Bianco has still strained Franco-Italian relations on multiple occasions. This video explores the origin of this territorial dispute, the situation we have today and what it means for the future of France, Italy and Europe.
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Music:
Parisian Cafe - Aaron Kenny (TH-cam Audio library)
Bushwick Tarantella - Kevin MacLeod
licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 licence. creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Source: incompetech.com/music/royalty-...
Artist: incompetech.com/
Bushwick Tarentella Loop - Kevin MacLeod
licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 licence. creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Source: incompetech.com/music/royalty-...
Artist: incompetech.com/
Summer Symphony Ball - Sir Cubworth (TH-cam Audio library)
No.9 Esther’s Waltz - Esther Abrami
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Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
1:49 History
7:31 Current situation
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Sources:
Michal Day (2015) Mont Blanc controversy: French suffer a fit of pique as Italy's Prime Minister 'reclaims' Europe's highest mountain. In: The Independent.
Angela Giuffrida (2020) Italy reignites Mont Blanc border dispute with France. In: The Guardian.
Michael MacCarthy-Morrogh (1991) The Unification of Italy.
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#montblanc #france #italy
![[UNCUT] ฝันรักห้วงนิทรา | EP.9 (3/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ikd1tEhXbp8/mqdefault.jpg)
Most countries "its my, no its my"
Italy "bro, we share it"
Because it's more like:
Every country in the World: "it's a shared border"
The French: "no it's only ours".
i didn't know this was even a thing, always knew it was half french, half italian. Borders in Europe are designed following natural barriers so it makes perfectly sense to be like that
You have an italian name
@@diegone080 because I am
@@davideghirelli5856 lol ecco
How border are design to ? Look at nothern part of France lool.
Belgium literally is inside natural french border. A part of Netherland too. Luxembourg too. Little part of Germany too
World isn't simple as that. Mont Blanc fully was in savoie territory. Savoie was given to France
@@gringologie9302 in fact belgium Is half ethnically french. You are talking about a geographical area with no natural barriers wich has been a contended territory and at war for centuries lol, this area was choose to place the european parliament for this reason, to mantain peace especially between Germany and France
But it's simple... why don't we share it ? I'm French and not gonna lie, the Italians had a good idea when they said it was split in two. Mont Blanc and Monte Bianco 🇫🇷🇮🇹👍
We had a good idea? Lmfao that’s just how it is. It’s literally written in the treaties of the 1860s.
Yes we Italians and the French just want to drink wine, it’s only the governments that create these situations.
As an italian i love french people 🇮🇹❤️🇫🇷
@@kle_dis00 Same ! I love Italians people 🇫🇷❤🇮🇹
it's based on the definition of the border, choosing montains isnt as simple as you think, they can be multiple factors that you can choose from (peaks, rivers, etc), and then there the variables.
"Both sides completely unwilling to compromise"
But like, Italy's position seems to be "We share the mountain", which is at least some measure of compromise compared with France's "C'est a mine!!"
CAUSE IT IS!!!!
@@GeoNoob nope. France should be forced to return all of its stolen territory to Italy along with all of its stolen territory outside of Europe to the indigenous peoples. Until this happens France should have a global trade embargo placed on them, more restrictive than Iran’s or north Korea’s.
@@godogs89 Well said
You're just mad cause napoleon made a fool out of whatever country your from
@@godogs89 and all the territory was returned?? Well except for mainland france but that is frances land. And french Guyana was not returned because no one there wanted independence so it remained french. And if france has to have a global trade embargo then so should the uk, AND ALL THE **OTHER** FORMER COLONIAL EMPIRES because they did the same things, why doesn't belgium go through this with what they did in the congo??? Because the modern president doesn't (or as far as we know) want to do bad stuff in the congo, same with the Uk and the irish potato famine, the monarchy during the famine may have wanted to continue exporting food from ireland despite the hunger and sickness, but that doesn't mean the current monarchy wants to cause a famine. Just like France and any other country with a bad past. So go cry to the UN
Italy gained Veneto by joining the Austro-Prussian war not with French support. They gained Milan and central Italy with French support in the second Italian war of independence.
Prussia gave the land to France because they felt Italy didn't help out that much, and France didn't want it so they gave it to Italy
@@levitschetter5288 Austria you mean?
@@levitschetter5288 *Austria. And they ceded Veneto to France knowing full well that it would be immediately transferred to Italy, they just considered a direct territorial transfer to a newly unified Italy too humiliating.
We not "gained" nothing, those lands was ours since the beginning.
French and Austrians was the abusives here. Now things are almost fine... even if parts of my Friuli are still under control of foreign countries.
I remember you that Friuli was founded Avril 3, 1077. 😤
@@danielefabbro822 true
Never heard of the situation. But tbh sounds likes Italy border makes the most sense from somebody who has no idea it was happening.
Divide is for the weaks,we will take it by force ! 🇨🇵👍🏻
@@Solveig.Tissot try It🇮🇹🇮🇹
@@Solveig.Tissot froggy moment, btw I support the Italians.
but despite that I hate froggies at times, we had a common enemy, the Americans. They ruin immigrant foods to the fact that it became nasty.
@@Alleniro Honestly calling French people ''froggies'' is kinda cringe, i live in France and NEVER have i seen a single soul eat frogs, snails or anything related to theses in restaurants
by the way i agree, i support Italians cause this border just looks ugly and the Italians' are better
Me, an intellectual: *Declares the mountain as a sovereign person.*
Yes
Me, an other intellectual: *give Montain to Nepal*
@@97Corvi Or china, which has half the Everset and some others that determine the border between nepal and china
the fact that the NATO maps use the italian version of the map tells us who the international community belive is right, (if you guys lost your version of the treaty of Turin it's YOUR FAULT).
Everyone in France think the Mount blanc is half French half Italian. And I think the « Italian » map is used in French school.
That’s our government problem not French problem.
Completely agree with your thought also the peak of Monte bianco is in the Italian border so I do think it’s Italian.
Based NATO
@@ni9274La majorité des français pensent que le mont blanc est 100% français
@@miratowa1018 and it's indeed a bullshit.
I actually live in the little city of St Gervais Les Bains, who owns the French « MontBlanc » and all of the story was very well explained. But the italians are right. There is a French Part and a Italian part of the « MontBlanc/Monte Bianco » It was a excellent video
Edit: Thank you so much for 92 likes!
Rpz la haute savoie ici ouiiii
How Italians are right ? Mont Blanc was fully part of savoie territory.
@@gringologie9302 A part of savoy territory was in italy. The capital of savoy was Turin, a italian city.
@@danielredmond1735 so french are very nice to stop to Mont Blanc.
@@gringologie9302 no we are nice to not reclaim the whole of Savoy and Nizza
I genuinely believed that Mount Blanc was split in half thanks to a small french tourist book from the 70s. They mentioned is disputed but commonly believed to be split
It's "Monte Bianco" or "White Mountain".
@@danielefabbro822 It's "Mont Blanc" both in French and English.
@@shakya00 yeah but the mountain is Italian so it's Monte Bianco. 😎🤣🤣🤣
@@danielefabbro822 No it is shared and I'm being kind there...Don't play the dumb nationalist when your own government doesn't contest it.
@@shakya00 my dear friend, I'm doing the same thing that French have done to us.
So if you don't want to hear, run.
I think it's important to underline that Aosta is a semi-autonomous region. This is highly respected by the Italian government who maintain limited control over the region's governance. The area functionally behaves as laid out by the Italian government though as far as the perception on the ground. The border crossings at the tunnel, service providers and signs displaying official authority contacts make is seem that way. The summit and main tourist attractions are largely operated by the Italian side in Courmayeur, Aosta
This video lacks a fundamental evidence that resolves the case in Italian favor. During the treaty of Turin (1860) the Italian government gave the administrative region of Savoy to France and the border between the Valle d’Aosta and Savoy was in the middle of Monte Bianco. Then after WW2 the french treaty of Turin was lost and then the French government started claiming jurisdiction on the top of Monte Bianco due to an earlier treaty made by Napoleon in 1797. This of course was a ridiculous claim made by the French government to obtain popularity, and today the top of Monte Bianco has Italian infrastructures on it. Please if you read this, Politics with Paint, make it the pin comment. By the way just saying, even the map of NATO has the mountain top divided in half between Italy and France.
If I remember correctly only the french documents of the treaty got lost after WW2 while the Italian ones still exists, but the french simply don't care and pretend that the treaty doesn't exist anymore just because they lost the documents. It's like if someone refused to pay the bills because they've lost them, it makes absolutely no sense.
@@MKnew099 france as same number of border dispute as china. Thats explain a lot why they are reknown to be assholes
Yea
But infrastructures doesn't mean it belongs to a country...
@@sledgehog1 but the treaty does
Mountain is of both, this was the treaty and this is what is valid in international law. No need to say more
French declared that treaty without value. That's the weight of french honour...without value.
@@solinvictus1234 i mean of it comes to "honour" who TF is innocent?
Italian honour is litteraly known in history to be worthless with the most popular examples being both world wars, but the Italian wars are such a sh*t show its quite amazing anyone cares.
British honor is also renowned to be worthless, unless its against France i guess but thats mutual and a thousand years old rivalry.
German honor... its a weird one since Germany as country is very young and before that was... confusing as hell.
No but seriously may the country that never betrayed a single one of its agreement throw the 1st stone.
Plus im pretty sure ever since Bismarck the matter of Honour in Geopolitic is considered worthless, then again its been a while since i studied realpolitik
@@erwannthietart3602 The fact that you're ig or ant on the matter of Italy affairs in WW's, do not allow you to judge Italy as dishonourable in such a generalized way.
Did you know that in WWI wasn't Italy to left the Triple Entente but Austro-Hungarians to betray the treaty and nullify it violating the Article 7? And if you want i will explain in details it to you.
Did you know why Italy sided with Germany in WWII? Cause the dishonourable Americans, British and French, during the pact of London, do not gived the promised (verbally and on paper) lands to Italy agreed before the WWI and for that lands Italy lost millions of young men, that died for nothing at the end. Mussolini that fought WWI was so pissed off for this betrayal act that it would never side again with the allies.
Germany honourable? Ahahah
At the end of the day Italy's mistake was maybe to have been far too much honourable than anyone.
No one it's innocent, but someone was less innocent that some others.
And believe me, regarding the honour of Italians you do not know nothing, just the propagandistic side of the anglosaxon world.
@@solinvictus1234 ig or ant? My god english words shortened to stuff i cant even understand since ig for me means "in game" and ant means just that "ant".
I can still claim that Italy was dishonorable because even if they were "betrayed" they still attacked their former ally after accepting a litteral bribe made by the one supposed to be their ennemy consisting of mere promise to give land to Italy.
Italian war still justify italian dishonor in general.
WW2 still Italians turning on their German ally the moment the allies started winning no matter how little they wanted the war its still not something you would expect or want out of an honorable people, no matter how justified Italy was in joining the Axis in the 1st place.
Now if you start ranting about how the Entente betrayed those who fought with them, nezrly no ine liked the peacedeals. Italy didnt like the peace deal because they wanted more, Austria didnt like the peace deal because their empire got cut apart, Germany didnt like it because of the many restrictions and loss of land etc...
Bulgaria didnt like it because they lost all of their empire, the Greeks didnt like the peace deals because the Turks didnt let them keep Constantinople and Asia Minor, Hungary HATED the peacedeal because they fought against Austria in the End and they got scammed out of 50% of their historical land, and finnaly France also didnt like the Peacedeals because while they won their territorial objectives and all, they wanted to cut Germany apart mike Austria and got disapointed aswell because UK and USA said "f*** that idea, no way it could backfire in i dunno 20 years or smt"
The only real happy ones were Belgium and Luxemburg, cus it survived, Poland and the Baltics cus they got free, The slavs in Tcheqoslovakia and i swear i never know how its written pls help, the Slavs of Yugoslavia which frankly Italy was very unhappy about like hungary and Bulgaria, Romania, USA, and UK, even Japan got a bit disapointed over the result since they couldnt get more money though in their case the dispointment would hurt a bit later with China and the treaty of Washington i think.
The Entente were facing the problem of everyone wanted everything but both claims clashed so they compromised and it led to many unhappy countries
@@erwannthietart3602 the alliance treaty between Italy, Austria and Germany was purely defensive, since Austria is the one who declared the war against Serbia(without consulting Italy either), Italy had no reason to join the war.
In ww2 Italy Mussolini got arrested and Italy surrendered to the allies, then Germany invaded the now neutral Italy and rescued Mussolini splitting Italy in half.
Neither of the two wars has Italy betraying its allies, you can cope all you want, these are just the facts.
Well researched and interesting as always, now with subtitle as well! *chef's kiss*
Glad you enjoyed it, and thank you for the donation!
What an amazing video! You went over history, politics and different solutions propossed! 10/10
In this clip there are many incorrect informations. IE France helped the Kingdom of Sardinia to obtain Lombardy (annexed 1859), not Veneto (annexed 1866), and the Congress of Vienna was already happening during Napoleon's 100 days.
The treaty of Turin (1860) clearly put the border at the watershed (there's even an attached map), passing through the highest peaks.
During IIWW the French "lost" the maps that were attached to their copy of the treaty of Turin, and that farce begun.
Mind that the alpine rescue in the "contested" area is always performed by the Italian CNSAS, since it would be ridicolus to reach that territory from Chamonix.
Problem is USA refused french legitimate claims in 1944 on all the Moutain Val d'Aoste, Vallées Occitanes et Arpitaness. USA thought that Italy could became communist doing this while De Gaulle And Tito hated each other.
But truth is since 1922 french and occitan speaker here where forced to assimilate thanks to Mussolini politic of uniformisation. Italy backstabbed France in 1940 (and failed without Germans) even if italian occipation were not so harsh compared to german and later american/british. This last point make reconciliation easier between France and Italy even if France was not avenged for the backstab.
@@tot0m French talking of legitimacy and forced assimilation when they democratically eliminated German speakers from Alsace and Lorraine are funny.
It would be interesting to see how this forced assimilation happened when, until the end of WWII, the second language taught in Italian schools was French.
I'm French, but I always thought that this mountain is half French half Italian. This dispute is a pure anecdote anyway; in practice, who cares?
Ecology. As Italy isn't famous to protect environment. Mountain is threatens by warming change.
@@gringologie9302 "Italy isn't famous to protect environment" nope, we care about our environment as much as France and the rest of Europe. We've a lot of inaccesible islands protected by the law, national forest and a lot protected species (read the story of the reintroduction of the Appennine wolf and the Alpine Bears). Also we are very good on recycling (first in Europe for recycling paper); and to finish, right now we're doing new laws to protect animals and environment.
Stop using this stupid prejudice, thanks.
@@gringologie9302 Ahahahahahahaahahahahahahaaha France is know to not care at all about environment
@@gringologie9302 what a joke. France is still holding on a colonial system 2 centuries later, definitely not better than Italy
@@nailil5722no France doesn't lmao, one google search would be enough to disabuse you of that notion. and no, a thing is not true because Sputnik Afrique said so 😂
Se la Francia fa affidamento alle mappe risalenti all'era napoleonica; noi Italiani possiamo affidarci alle mappe dell'impero romano... :)
Infatti
Lmao try it and see pasta boy
@@barmybarmecide5390You try baguettes. There will always be a Pietro Micca or a Fornovo for you 😂
The French base it's border on the treaty of Chambéry (1790’) but the new treaty of Torino (1860') say that the border Is based on the natural crest of the Mountain
But the treaty of 1860 has some obvious problems, its wording suggests they were not aware of the actual geography. That's why both sides can base their opinion on this treaty.
Italy in the treaty of “Torino” give Savoia and Nizza to France for the help against Austria in the second war of independence. So if the treaty of 1860 doesn't exist Italy would have Savoia and Nizza. The treaty signed by the two side but the french copy vanished misteriously.
@@eljanrimsa5843It hasn't any problem except it crash with French Médiocrité. But
it is the Treaty in use so...
Politics with paint congrats on 60k subs
Thank you for covering these unknown subjects ! Your videos are amazingly instructive and the countryballs are cute ^^
As a French, I never knew there was a territorial dispute around Mont Blanc.
there is a dispute even for the waters . Basically France denies the existence of north Sardinia waters
@@locusta4662 well gotta keep the record of like 13 territorial disputes lol ^^
@@erwannthietart3602 🤮🤮🤮
@@kinggeedorah8303 you can cope and puke as much as you want but those territories still belongs to France now and its certainly doesnt seem like its gonna change anytime soon
@@erwannthietart3602 what territories? Monte Bianco Is split in 2 in every map exept french ones. Accept It: you are wrong
Unfair that France gets to claim the whole of the biggest mountain when the border otherwise straddles the mountain ridge, but I get just giving it up wont do for a proud nation like France, which I think leads to the only possible answer being Italy and France having to go to war over the mountain.
They should do like the Canadians and take turns leaving alcoholic beverages up there
The highest mountain in Europe is in Russia.
@@MrPeterPan 0:32
exactly, and people saying that wars are useless...
That's why a lot of people agreed on the diplomatic partition of Monte Bianco.
But French are too proud go on that eay, good or bad.
That's why many in Italy can't stand France on Italic territories(no Italian, mind you).
I.e. Corsica, Savoia(Savoy) and Nizza(Nice).
Nice video. In a close video you could talk about the issue of Olivença between Portugal and Spain
Honestly here, France just seems greedy, Italy's divide seems fair.
Divide ? That's for the weaks ! We will take this by force ! 🇨🇵❤️
We conquered it, and so it remains French. Only if Italy could conquer it back will I settle. Till that day comes, I stick beside my reasoning.
@@strasbourgeois1
1st you haven't conquered shit, that would imply french troops there and de facto french authority and neither are true.
2nd you have nothing to settle cause you're nobody.
@@strasbourgeois1 "we conquered it" Ehm no. I don't see any french soldier on the mountain. And the buildings on the mountain were constructed by italian people.
International law says that Monte Bianco (Mont Blanc) is both italian and french.
LMAO, french imperialism is so funny.
@@sator3946 If there were a French soldier on the mountain, that would provoke Italy furthermore. Hypothetically, a French soldier crossing into Italian juridical land would be seen as something like trespassing or invasion. Something we are smart enough to understand.
And again, like the video says, it can be written on paper or whatever, but you cannot stop the dispute.
I started laughing when I heard that the commission takes with finding a solution declared that it wasn't their problem 🤣🤣🤣
Everybody in France say that's its split in two, never heared about this conflict tbh
No no everybody in France doesn't says that
@@gringologie9302 Never met somebody that doesn't but let's say a vast majority
Your voice is so soothing
I love our channel, keep up the good work!
Communism?
@@ServantoftheDivine1701 I am currently deciding on whether I should say "sorry m8, ur replying to the wrong person", or just go with it, and reply "Close, Socialism." and call it a day!
@@ServantoftheDivine1701 it's not Italys or Frances Mountain, it's OUR mountain
Unless there's a settlement on top a mountain is divided, that's common sense. It's a natural barrier, after all!
Fun fact: The Mona Lisa was not stolen, but sold by Leonardo himself, it was commissioned by the french. The funny thing is someone tried "stealing" it to bring it back to Italy once.
Fun fact: the Mona Lisa wasn't sold, it was given by Leonardo to the French king.
@@divicarpe1844 Yeah, I meant that Leonardo was commissioned by the french to do it. Unclear, my apologies
@@tommivalle2652 It wasn't even commissioned, Leonardo worked on it far before coming in France. It was just a gift.
I'm an italian and you're right. But a lot of other italian pictures and sculptures are stolen during the Napoleonic Italian campaign.
"Love, which quickly arrests the gentle heart,
Seized him with my beautiful form
That was taken from me, in a manner which still grieves me.
Love, which pardons no beloved from loving,
took me so strongly with delight in him
That, as you see, it still abandons me not...”
― Dante Alighieri,
Amor, ch'al cor gentile ratto s'apprende
Prese colui de la bella persona
Che mi fu tolta; e'l modo ancor m'offende.
Amor ch'a nullo amato amar perdona,
Mi prese del costui piacer sì forte,
Che, come vedi, ancor non m'abbandona.
The translation you offered changes a bit the meaning of the two stanzas, so, as I studied these verses recently and as an Italian, I'll try to write a better, non in the form of a poem, translation, more accurate to the original
Love, which quickly inhabits the noble heart (noble as in pure; gentle is plain wrong, at least as it's used today)
Seized him with my beautiful form
That was taken from me, in a manner which still offends me.
Love, which doesn't allow any beloved not to love (as in: it's impossible to not love back)
Gave me so strong love of him,
That, as you can see, still doesn't abandon me.
Now my translation could be improved a lot, but it retains the original meaning a bit better, at least in my opinion, as I don't know all about English
to me (an italian) monte bianco is just italian and I even claim Savoy and Nice as italian territory under french control
As said in the treaty of turin that declares the passage of savoy and nizza to italy to france, the border pass truh the mont blanc/monte bianco giving half mount to france and half mount to italy, but france refer its border from a document dating 70 years before the treaty of turin making a huge mess
from an italian. the treaty of turin established a fine border between italy and france and monte bianco was clearly split. and in 1946 when we handed a small ethnic territory along the border italian diplomats were able to maintain the border between monte bianco from the treaty of turin (but we lost some small insignificant border areas in 1946) however, france signed this treaty of paris meaning that they respect italys border and if they do not respect it they are all together denying the treaty of paris which would make the border territories part of italy. unless france wants to lose those territories they must recognise italian authority over the eastern side of monte bianco.
Fun fact: about Mona Lisa everything should have been resolved, recently an original copy of the paint has been found in Italy, so it is not a problem anymore
The Mona Lisa is more the face of the issue it’s not the issue itself, is famous so people use it as an example but it’s actually one of the few that wasn’t stolen but! the majority of the Italian art at the louvre is!
@@thngvbts5182 true
@Chemya Da Vinci made two Mona Lisa in the same period
@@thngvbts5182 It's true. Why no one speack about the Canova's sculpture
the french stole many arts from italian land during the napoleonic war.
The French and the Italians send their very best close-quarters combatant to battle on the mountaintop to boost tourism for both sides, whoever's country wins owns all of the mountain for 4 years. If it is a draw, the whole mountain goes to Switzerland for 4 years until combatants can reconvene.
Bruh, that's a fucking war💀 no thank you
Your channel is ultra underrated((((
wow, I'm suprised to see the french commentators saying that the mountain should be half and half. I mean probalìbily it is just a stereotype, but in Italy everyone thinks that the french are the most nationalist and patriotic people in Europe, seems not true, or at least seems not true anymore.
Its a bit... complicated
There are plenty of patriotism and especially chauvinism in France still today, i mean former global empire and all that, being grouped with the underdogs and not the superpowers and all definitly hurts our pride one way or another.
But in the meantime i also found as a french that in the West Europe the most Patriotic and nationalist people ive met were Italians because "grrr give us Corsica and Nice, and all the stuff you stole you damn frenchmen".
Its a matter of pov really.
The problem over the mountain is really not dealt with on the french side not because of needless pride however, but because no one actually gives a f about it beyond "oh yea, its french, neat", like the mere idea of sharing it with Italy never comes up because well, all we learn is that its french and its never mentionned again unless you study history thouroughly, geopolitics, or are just curious enough that stuff like this video shows up in recommandation.
Really obscurity and the remnant of chauvinism (sorta nationalism except more french) is the litteral only thing that prevents us from actually dealing with this border inconveniance
00:32 lmao he knew these comments would come
It will be cool if you make a video about the yugoslav wars
Title:how to start a war in the comments
My videos are all about starting wars in the comments :' )
I'm subscribed ;)
As a spaniard mount bianco sounds better.
Monte blanc sounds like an insult
*Monte Bianco
As an italian i approve
Wait, isn't the French Italian border just Switzerland?
nope
@@johnneumann7273 The French German border is Belgium.
@@masscreationbroadcasts ahhhhh of course
What
@@masscreationbroadcasts The Nato-Russia Border is Ukraine
As an Italian before this video i think that the mountain was split or entire Italian.
Io pure 👁️👄👁️
Interamente italiana no, il trattato di Torino sancisce che il monte bianco è spartito tra Italia e Francia e così deve essere e rimanere
Considering it was the Italians (Sardinians) who ceded the territory to France, they are the ones who would best know the borders of the territory they agreed to cede. What France is doing is claiming that the Italians ceded more territory than they agreed to.
Italy seems to be the reasonable side here... Share the mountain.
Some people say Elbrus is the tallest peak and other say it is monte Bianco/mont blanc it depends on who you ask.
If you consider the Caucasus countries European then Mount Elbrus would be the tallest but if you consider them as Asian then it’s monte Branco
@@leratking8842 technically Europe, but actually Asia.
Easy, mont blanc in the european union and elbrus in Europe.
Continents are not clearly defined even as a concept, meaning that really you could even say that mount Everest is the tallest mountain of Oceania and you'd still be right
Elbrus is in Europe, but is a volcano, not a mountain.
It's Georgian
Not because the highest mountain in Europe is Elbrus, but because France and Italy are rightful Georgian clay 😎
Based
But Georgia Is owned by Buthan
@@Lario_ But i thought Buthan is owned by Liechtenstein
But Liechtenstein is owned by the Papal state
@@vittorioarioli9127 Right, i forgot, but the Papal States are owned by St Kitts
Wow!
0:14 careful the top right painting is Dutch, not Italian !
Of course the french wants all of it
Based France,as always :)
@@Solveig.Tissot there has been not, and never will be, anything based coming from France. It's phisically impossible.
@@riograndedosulball248 Average Virgin Brainless Cringe Anti France Troll Fanboy VS The Chad Based God France Enjoyer,cope harder :)
@@riograndedosulball248 Bro...
That's called racism
@@lamouettegaming reality is sometimes disappointing
Abbiamo già dato con la perdita di Nizza, Savoia, Briga, Tenda, e gli altri territorio, per non parlare della Corsica. Il Monte Bianco si dice di dividerlo, i francesi lo vogliono tutto per loro, a quale compromesso dovremmo scendere ulteriormente? Non sarebbe un compromesso, sarebbe perdere ancora una volta tutto e basta.
Dear Politics With Paint. If you could include in one of your videos you should add Arizonaball hugging a saguaro cactus brought to said region that would be a nice cameo.
Reason?
@@patro734 Why Not?
Peaceful run: it’s of both
How peacefull ? Savoie was given to France. Mont Blanc fully is in savoie. If Italy wants half of it, that's not the peacefull solution
@@gringologie9302 Monte Bianco is in Italy, not Savoia. If France wants something someone else has it's unjust
@@gringologie9302 Can you stop with ths chauvinistic french bullshit? The mountain is shared, treaty of Turin,1861, your cuck government signed it.
France didn't help Italy take Veneto, that was prussia defeating austria also for us. (France helped for Lombardy)
France annexed Veneto for 30min and gave it to Italy
The valid treaty is the one following the cession of Savoy in 1860 in which the summit of Mont Blanc is halfway between the two states. This was the last treaty signed since following the end of World War II Italy has cedes some lands to France but none of them was on Mount Blanc. So the real border is the one of 1860 when thr borded was on the top od Mountain
That's why a lot of people agreed on the diplomatic partition of Monte Bianco.
French are too proud go on that eay, good or bad.
That's why many in Italy can't stand France on Italic territories(no Italian, mind you).
I.e. Corsica, Savoia(Savoy) and Nizza(Nice).
(P.S. due to recent idiots I need to specify, I'm not stating my belief and my point of view.
It's the general outlook.
So before you make yourself a joke or just strengthen bad stereotypes,please think before you write)
[I really need to say again Italic≠Italian]
You really consider Corse, Savoy and Nice to be Italian? Kinda cringe considering they are french speaking and cultured places, find yourself a stable government instead of being mad for France having more territory
@@SaladeDeFruitt Corsica and Nizza are Italian
@@vins0038 go ask that to a Corsican or a Niçois if they feel Italian
@@SaladeDeFruitt Italic≠Italian, I can understand without prior knowledge all dialects of the region.
Without talking about Corsica, that is litteraly just slightly different from Sardo.
@@Reyob How many times you need to press people French culture and language before they shut up.
That's litteraly Corsica history.
“The French believe that kids feel confident when they're able to do things for themselves, and do those things well. After children have learned to talk, adults don't praise them for saying just anything. They praise them for saying interesting things, and for speaking well.”
― Pamela Druckerman
am French
In Friuli we have a motto that says (for the kids) : "Eat, Grow, Obey, Working".
That's what a good kid have to do to be treated well here.
@@danielefabbro822 per fortuna fra 197 anni voi italiani non ci sarete più:)
Italy: Meet France, our bossy and spoiled cousin with a passion for cultural appropriation.
more or less
Now now, bossy and spoiled? Oh i fully agree, but a passion for cultural appropriation? Tssk how rude, an Obsession would be the correct word, you WILL give us your food recipe and we WILL adopt it as our own and upgrade it into its own thing
Just to clarify, Italians don't hate the French we just consider them to be snobs mainly because of Parisians' reputation worldwide. Some brain-dead Italians argue that the Gioconda, Corsica and Savoia should be returned to Italy cause in their opinion France stole them but that's just nonsense and no-one in their right mind supports those outlandish claims.
That being said France does have quite an attitude, the French never really got past their imperialist ideas and to this day keep on a almost colonial grasp on Africa with consequences affecting everyone in Europe, they insist in somewhat extreme policies regarding minorities which lead and are leading to almost cultural genocidal results, Corsica being the main example, and generally the French maintain a militaristic sentiment almost unique to them in the EU.
This French "grandeur" is also shown in the Monte Bianco issue since even though there are official documents splitting the Mountain in two, mainly the Treaty of Turin from the year 1860, the French still insist they own basically the entire thing, as an EU enthusiast I hope the issue will be soon settled but a bit of a collaborative attitude by the French would be much appreciated, maybe while we are at it we could also solve the Sardinia waters controversy since once again France is acting like Sardinia isn't an island capable of exercising a marine border in the Mediterranean.
Also the French being the most childish and least respectable ppl on the continent might contribute
There were no genocidal attitude in Corsica ? The region maintains an autonomous status. Although I agree with the other things you mentioned. Yes, it would be easy to find a compromise. I personnaly think sharing is the right solution, it would also prove that two nations can be friends. A french Mt Blanc is acknowledging of the local realities.
@@crkcrk702 Corsicans are asked by the government to unify into French culture proper, their language is dying and their culture with it, doesn't matter if it's an autonomous region if they can't act like it. Corsica is basically living the same horrible fate Occitania went through.
@@Old_Harry7 Corsicans voted no for independance
And how are the langages of Italia outside toscanese ?
@@crkcrk702 I'm not talking about independence, that's not my point, what I'm saying is France should protect and encourage cultural diversity within non French proper regions.
Italy values all of its dialects and outright recognise tongues such as Sardinian as proper languages which are for example even learnt in school and read on textbooks.
cool
It is actually not Kingdom of Savoy-Sardinia, but Kingdom of Piedmont-Sardinia.
It's actually Kingdom of Sardinia cuz Piedmont was a principality
@@jecko980 Savoy took the Sardinia and the Piedmont to form Piedmond sardinia kingdom
@@romaingillet2526 nope, Savoy took Sicily but exchanged it with the kingdom of Sardinia that was in Neapolitan hands, so just to have a Kingdom title they renamed them Kingdom of Sardinia, Piedmont was a principality
Regno di Sardegna .
@@jecko980 Yes but in english they call it every time Sardinia-Piedmomt
Italy is right for two reasons
1. It's originally Italian
2. I don't like France
Average Virgin Brainless Anti France comment ⬆️
Fair enough
You're wrong and I'm right for two reasons
1. Italians are losers
2. I'm french
I'm french and France is right for sure
France is right
To be honest the entire Savoia region is Italy, so no douts to who the mountain belong to.
Huuum no.
@@rolletroll2338 Huuum sì.
@@robertocalibancove8245 Savoie was given to France in 1860. End of story.
@@gringologie9302 Savoia was stolen from France, history goes on.
To me the true dispute is those lands of Nizza "Nice" back to Italy and also Fiume "Rijeka".
there is no real dispute nice is French and France....honestly there are areas in the northern most areas of italy that austria could claim with some legtimacy
@@camm8642 No, there aren't. There are some areas like Nizza( Italian) that are not French and other states, like Germany, could claim
@@NoName-hg6cc you are wong parts of northern italy could easily go back to austria
@@camm8642 No, you are wrong. Part of France could go back to Italy or Germany
@@NoName-hg6cc Like Alto-Adige isn't italian. It's true in fact, like nice or Strasbourg aren't the cultural heart or France
09:00 I suspect that Italian laws against putting pineapple on pizza are harsher than French laws on the matter.
Italy owns the mountain.
*From a german*
Yeah the entire world knows that German have difficulty to understand any kind of treaty.
I doubt the french care to much about a german opinion......
Io pensavo che era nostro, non sapevo che era pure Francese mai sentito.🇮🇹
As a french I also thought it was only ours ^^'
@@crkcrk702 hah well this explains the 2 map trouble
Guess we can consider it both French and Italian
As far as I know, the dispute is whether the border pass through the main summit of Mont Blanc or through the highest subsummit Mont Blanc de Courmayeur, which is ~50m below and a few 100s meters away, a flat saddle separating the 2.
This last summit is the one visible from Courmayeur, and not the main summit. It is also a rocky summit, while the main summit is only ice/snow.
The key point on the treaty of 1860 is whether the border follow the ridge, as visible from Courmayeur, or through the watershed ridge, the redaction is unclear and the maps of the time, not so precise.
Besides, due to continuous evolution of the snow/ice cover, the ridges from the main summit always change whereas the ones from the Mont blanc de Courmayeur do less (when rocks fall).
Putting a border on a changing glacier is not the best idea when you can use a rocky ridge instead😀.
The border is on the summit. The treaty is quite clear on that
is it translated from the episode of arte released 2 weeks ago?
Even if I'm french, I'm on Italy side for this one.
Like, it's just seem more faire historically or geopolitical wise.
But our food still better tho.
As an Italian, I just think it's unfair that France doesn't get to fulfil its claims. Sure, historically, it would make sense, but so would the island of Corsica, and yet nobody would doubt it is a rightfully French island
Italy's food is better. Pasta > frog
@@freespiritedd Frogs are traditional of Northern Italy too
@@AlexanderLittlebears never seen a cooked frog in my entire life and I live there
Yeah, bread and butter is the best food ever
Imo it’s pretty simple: 1860 - Treaty of Turin, the king of Italy Victort Emanuell II ceded to France some bording territories to thank France for the military help in the italian second war of independence. The boarders were then decided to follow the natural peak of the mountain. But almost immediately after the french army produced a personal version of the map including the whole mountain in french territory and that map was later adopted also as french civil map. Nevertheless in the international conventions ratified by the UN right after the conflict, the Treaty of Turin was respected and the border matched exactly the peak on the mountain. Nowadays France claim they don’t have a copy of the Treaty of Turin in their archives, that they lost it, that it probably went destroyed during the german invasion. I guess it may be somehow shocking to french people born and raised in France with the idea that the Mont Blanc / Monte Bianco is totally in french territory, to find out that actually it isn’t and that the peak is shared with Italy but they can’t blame the italian if they invented their own map.
The sheer level of anti Italianism displayed by the French in the comments should be self explanatory as far as the attitude of the french State in international disputes is concerned. It is always the French government that provokes Italy. The French live in their little francophone bubble, ignoring everything else around them, including the criminal foreign policy of their own government. An example would be the Mitterand Doctrine, with France providing diplomatic immunity to far left terrorists from Italy for 4 decades and systematically refusing extradition. The funny thing is that many Italians choose France as their holiday destination spending their money there, visiting Paris in the millions, and are absolutely oblivious to how much the French despise us. It is quite sad, really.
Unfortunatly I read all your dumb comment since everybody is on strike as always so I have time to lose. I’m French and I really like Italy and italians I travelled there once bc it’s not that far from Grenoble where I grew up, and since this trip I just want to go back and visit more bc Italy is a beautiful place imo and the gastronomy is awesome so stop trash talking plz ! Andiamo regazzi !
I am just wondering, why did you show the painting with all the greek philosopfers next to the painting "Lady Liberty leading the people"?
France and Italy should share it, French gov just has to say it is an act of international friendship and a show of european cooperation if they think that sharing would hurt their pride. In practice it already works like if it was shared (montain rescues being conducted by the Italians on their side for exemple).
This man knows how to start a war in the comments
Start a Wine war instead of Whiskey War for it
Why?
There’s no reason to fight, because the mountain is split in two with the Treaty of Turin in 1860… and it doesn’t matter that France says “we lost our copy of the treaty during WW2”, in the hope that they can go back to the Napoleonic maps and try to steal someone else’s land yet again.
Saying that a treaty isn’t valid just because you lost your copy, is as idiotic as throwing away your heating bill and then refusing to pay by saying that you owe no money for heating.
Sure, the border should follow the main ridge, since it is a natural boundary.
I will claim mont blanc as mine
No sorry , it's mine ; and the square in front of my house too .
If only Savoy and Nizza were still under Italian rule this would all be so easy
If only Aosta and Genoa were still French
@@zeniith there’s a difference France occupied those regions without any French in it. While Savoy and Nizza had many ethnically Italians which you French can’t even deny since Garibaldi was from Nice
@@Boretheory Nice was Italian, but Savoy was definitely French
@@Boretheory i was just responding to the first comment
@@Boretheory savoy had some scattered italo-arpitans but they were mostly bilingual with french and italian was their second language. Nice however was 90% italian, and in 1870 garibaldi actually won the local elections and went on to represent the region in parliament. His requests were ignored and italians were either killed or deported while parisians were moved to nice en masse to change the local majority.
Fun fact nicois(nizzardo) is a dialect of ligurian (of you are italian) or occitan (if you are french). The french changed the spelling rules of the dialect to be more french live "today" was "tuggiù" (still pronounced like this) but the french tought it should be spelled "toujou" to be closer to the french "toujours"
I wish all border conflicts in the world were like this one...
A way to fix it would be for both regions on each side to declare independence and become 1 country, that way nobody gets to have pride in owning it.
Switzerland: It's free real estate.
Zidane's headbutt is very similar to what Tyson did in boxing, but slightly less bloody.
Zidane headbutt showed how silly are the french and how smart are the italians.
Nothing more and nothing less.
@@solinvictus1234 God? Is that you? Aurelian?
@@luciusdomitiusaurelianus5334 Aurelianus for friends 😉
@@solinvictus1234 Zidane said after the match end that Materazzi insult a member of his family.
That's not what I will call ''smart''
@@lamouettegaming I will call smart as sh..t. Materazzi did that to get Zidane angry, and that worked flawlessly. It's no more and no less a smart tactic that any worlds Defender use, since the dawn of time and also in this days.
It's the midfielder/striker that should be smarter than the defender and do not fall in hos provocations.
I'm gonna bite the bullet and be the guy who says it, but is there a reason you're not considering the like 10 mountains in the Caucasus range when calling this one the tallest in Europe? I'm not very familiar with the topic, so any answers would be appreciated.
Other then che Caucasus itself (and the Urals) being kind of the intercontinental border and the border itself not being precisely defined (a bit like for Turkey), I'd guess it's mostly for historical reasons. In the sense "the mountain that has historically been considered the highest in Europe".
@@riccardogemme thanks a lot!
Me knowing neither of them does
Mt Elbrus noises intensify
Ahahah EU4 prestige medals ! well done, it's a very good video and is quite interesting !
9:08 the English, ofcourse
Why don't we solve it once and for all federating Italy and France? We two, together, would be the biggest economy in Europe, we have the finest productions, basically we'd have everything, even geopolitically speaking and culturally we are not so different after all.
No thanks.
Cu caz
North Italy can't even get along south Italy sometimes , so it would be a problem. Even if for what I know , northern Italy could be a part of France with no problem
@@fanofcodd As much as France have problems with their South. Who would fit in Italy quite well though
@@fanofcodd
Dream about it petit zemmour !!
Looks like this is gonna go like it was in the past.
Russia with the Elbrus: I have the tallest European mountain
As a German, I can only say, Monte Bianco is definitely Italian. If we can't have it, the frogeaters can't have it as well haha. (Not meant offensive ;D, but it is italian)
The best things in France are Italian, like the Gioconda, Corsica and Monte Bianco
La nozze di cana del Veronese.....
Not a fault. It was Leonardo da Vinci who decided to end his life in France, Corsica had not been in Genoa for 40 years when the French arrived, and Mont Blanc is Savoyard if we can be precise.
Victor Emmanuel II only reigned from 1849-1878. His predecessor, Charles Albert, started a lot of the process of unification in 1848.
As a French I don't know why there is such a dispute. Who cares? It's just a fucking mountain.
It should be own to us (Italians)
I don't know if it could work, but maybe it could be like the Pheasant Island that is shared by France and Spain : half the year, France manages it and the other half it's Spain. As a French i didn't heard about this situation until a few days ago, but i feel it is really dumb as a conflict. Love to my Italian brothers 🇫🇷🤝🇮🇹 hope a solution will be find.
An interesting idea.
It would be even better if there was an exchange ceremony every 6 months, to attract as many tourists as possible!
No. Andorra was a principauty, always special statut. Both France and Spain wanted it, both had it. But legally, nor France nor Spain could claim it for himself. So we shared it on good intelligence.
Mont Blanc is different. Was totally in savoie territory. Savoie was given to France, and so mont blanc. Doenst give a clue that some Italians farmers and so later tourism exploitation didn't respect the treaty. Law is law. Both french and Romans know that. Maybe nothern Italians tend to forget.
@@gringologie9302 andorra and the pheasant island are two different territories.
@@gringologie9302 only problem: treat of Turin. If France lost it's copy it's not italian fault, and French cannot use the Treat of Cherasco as a proof, considering that every Napoleonic conquistsl was canceled with the Restauration, so it is not valid. Mont Blanc/Monte Bianco is both italian and French, that's it
Okay why is it that tons of people DONT see Mt. Elbrus as the highest mountain in Europe.
sidenote that Valle d'Aoste is the highest AOC/DOC/designated wine region in Europe