Makes sense The areas and bosses are all direct results of Haltmann Unlike Triple Deluxe where the areas were all naturally formed and most bosses existed in some form before Taranzas magic
the discussion about Megalovania being Sans's theme and why reminded me about Stardust Speedway essentially becoming Metal Sonic's theme even though its not HIS theme, its the stage's theme
I remember reading that a big reason why the Haltmann theme works as a motif is how it emphasizes how PopStar has been deeply altered by Haltmanns mechanical takeover and how he was the one responsible for all of it.
They really don't do much with that Armor except for the C.O.G.S, Gigavolt fight, A familiar enemy from Kirby based on a Blimp and the one that comes later on, kinda wish they did more boss fights with the Robobot like Real Steel against Susie/President
Yeah, thats one thing that bummed me out about it since for the most part, the robobot still ends up getting used mostly for puzzles in the stages instead of letting you keep the thing if you're good enough for fights and the like.
Regardless of what you think of Undertale as a game, I think the way its music used motifs to sort of become a story element is both clever and impressive, since specific motifs are always used for specific reasons, and in some cases provide more story details than the scene they play in due to how they're handled. It's an aspect of the soundtrack that I actually wish more rpgs or story based games took advantage of.
"I like Susie." "I think she's an asshole?" "So?" I mean... yeah. Villains (and ex-villains) in Kirby games get a LOT of love. Heck, it's pretty much the reason Star Allies did what it did.
The biggest example of Bootstrapped Leitmotif in video games is Ridley's theme. Premiered in Super Metroid as the escape theme for both Ceres Station and Zebes and the boss themes for Ridley, Draygon, and both Torizo statues, ever since it's been his theme in everything he's appeared in, both Metroid and non-Metroid games (and sometimes pulls double duty as the escape theme).
That's why I hate that theme specifically Ridley's original theme was supposed to be his lair theme from the original game But since fusion they just sticked to being major boss 2 from super metroid
@@SonBlackHeart22 they did the same with the 3 mage sisters but made it so there charge attacks happen faster making them more op then there boss fight versions
Personally I don't mind the Susie boss being conceptually similar, they are father and daughter after all. Plus, they are both bussiness ppl, not world conquering creatures.
11:45 This song is actually from Canvas Curse btw, so blame that game instead Edit: it's Machine Mansion, which is a remix of "Underground Stage" which shows up in Vegetable Valley 2 from Kirby's Adventure. Most probably know it as the Minecart Riding theme from Super Star
2:00 on the topic of the leitmotif, Triple Deluxe also uses its hypernova leitmotif a lot As for the music, it's really just personal preference. If you like techno music, you'll prefer this soundtrack. If you like more instrumental music, than Triple Deluxe's soundtrack will appeal more Edit: If you want to talk about overused leitmotif in the Kirby series, Star Allies' soundtrack is like 50% Green Greens and 45% Song of Supplication
The theme that plays when Fury Bowser appears from his shell is EXTREMELY similar to the one that plays when Bowser slowly lowers down in the Clown Car in Super Mario World.
So little bit of trivia: Susie's (and Haltmann's) mech is based on a beta Robobot Armor design. Anyway, I'm pretty sure the EX stages just port over tracks from other games instead of remixing them. The Yogurt Yard remix I know for certain is from Canvas Curse because that game has a weird fascination with the kazoo.
The thing that makes Dededetour not as fun as Meta Knightmare isn't just that Dedede doesn't get new moves from points he collects, though it certainly would've helped, it's that Dededetour isn't well-paced. The idea with Dededetour is that you solve puzzles so you can find shortcuts that take you further into the world, which by itself is a neat concept. The problem is that Royal Road, the last world, has barely any shortcuts, and so even when played close to optimally, that world can still take you an hour. Meta Knightmare doesn't have that kind of pacing issue.
honestly i love the music from planet robobot alot more than triple deluxe, but i also jsut prefer robobot over triple deluxe in general 19:50 "randomly" is more dependent on whether you consider the boss-pause screens as part of the main story, which most do so not really sure if it's random. because those pause screens give some interesting context for the bosses you're fighting like roboticized wispy woods and later mecha knight
Not to mention fighting Clanky Woods helps to show how vastly different the mechanizing project can change the familiar, and the Holo Defense system foreshadowing Haltman's use and copying of other ancient technology (being based on Pix from 64).
I'm convinced that Corrin doesn't wear shoes because Int Sys wanted to show off their new Feet Technology™ as a sign of how far they had come with the 3DS graphics. When it comes to leitmotifs, Persona 4 is probably my favorite case of that in a soundtrack. It made the final boss theme (when it got to that point) and credits music really stick with me.
I already loved the thing with Genesis for so long, but when I found out about the one in Mist, just last month, I absolutely lost it. And I'm still trying to hear the thing about New Worlds Fool. P4 did so good.
Apparently the artist for the characters in Fates designed Corrin and Azura without shoes or any other type of foot wear after hearing that they would be prisoners of a sort. Prisoners occasionally don't wear shoes to denote their place in society, I guess.
@@SuperDanMan11100 I like the idea behind the design if that's the case, though I find it funny that it means Corrin marches across a continent during a war campaign without shoes for no in-universe reason.
@@Chconroy It's an interesting idea in concept, but outside of Corrin kicking people and Azura dancing, it is really impractical to run across the continent like that.
Ted in this episode discovers that even Japan has trouble breaking bad habits. We slap "Super" at literally EVERYTHING while they have EX as their word for "super" is more contextual. i.e. Dragonball Super, Super Lightning Spin, etc. That's USUALLY reserved for a stronger version of a technique as well due to mastery. Same with Shin Godzilla being NEW! Godzilla. He's now realizing that he's been using TVTropes for so long that he feels scammed due to the amount of time passing. And the first waifu in this series for a long time appears at 19:43.
Ted, the remix you complained about in the start of the EX stage is actually a remix from Canvas Curse. I still find it bizarre that Canvas Curse had a techno soundtrack, but at least it meant that its tracks could fit in with Planet Robobot's extra stages. On the topic of the Nightmare remix, I think Ted's mixing it up with the remix in Star Allies, because the only final boss theme from the older games that I remember being remixed is the one for Dark Matter.
Yeah the Dark Matter theme from Dreamland 2 got a remix not the Nightmare theme it was remixed in Super Kirby Clash I just think Ted is a bit forgetful
3:05 ted: "it works when it, works." i'd imagine that's how everything works. i like how picker of nits is just a thing now. first kirby feet, then fire emblem feet, guys, stop.
Oh I see how it is; when King Dedede gets super buff, it makes perfect sense for the series, but when Meta Knight does it, suddenly it's a fucking hilarious Sonic the Hedgehog reference!
I associate Megalovania more as just a Boss fight music track than "Sans Theme". I can't imagine him just rolling up and then the game going all DADADADA. It makes sense in Smash for that reason too. It's just a hype boss battle track. Sans just so happened to be that boss in Undertale
To be fair, there IS a proper Sans theme in the game (with the unused boss battle theme being a sped up version of that piece with a different sound font.)
Oh G-d, you have no idea how much I love the ice cream factory levels. They're so freaking fun! I just have a fondness for food-themed levels. If they don't make me hungry, they at least make the level design an eyesight.
Iirc none of the EX stages uses new remixes, it's all songs or remixes from previous games The Nightmare remix in the ex stage isn't from Robobot, it and kazoo remix are from Canvas Curse Also Epic Yarn is amazing and I love it
She's literally Paz Ortega from Peace Walker after defecting from her ally, President Haltmann and Mother Base/Big Boss, they also were Spies working from a different organisation, both piloting mechanical machines, Susie's business suit and Metal Gear Zeke.
I think the best way how they'll make a 3D game is make it like Banjo Kazooie; Collecting macguffins by solving puzzles with or without copy abilities, beating the main boss of the level, and also collect small items to progress the game as well as the main macguffins.
Have it be like klonoa. More specifically klonoa 2 Lunatea’s veil. Have a huge 3d world while still limited to 2d movement. Maybe make the story more organic like klonoa 2. Instead of having it limited to pause screens.
The Girl of the Hour, the fight is a lot of fun, i also love the Ice Cream Factory and Underwater City, The Noble Haltmann we adore him. Really this is the threat she doesn't seem so hostile. Hey Metal Acro haven't seen you since Kirby 64 Meta Knight is Susie's b**ch in this game literally
While the gameplay of the franchise hasn't necessarily changed dramatically in that pre RtDL era (not counting stuff like Canvas Curse of Mass Attack), the period between Adventure to Squeak Squad did seem to enjoy having some defined structure gimmicks (although I guess you can lump the plot mcguffins from the Dark Matter trilogy together in that regard), so I guess that's what Ted is referring to? I still enjoy Epic Yarn a lot, I just find it really chill and relaxing without boring me.
On the subject of leitmotifs, the Three Houses soundtrack having large chunks be remixes or references to The Edge Of Dawn is one of my favourite examples. 10:44 - Well that explains it! Johnny burns down the orphanage all the time, so of course he isn’t gonna like Rick for volunteering there.
I know exactly what song AntDude is talking about that plays during a train section and we are now mortal enemies because that song is one of my favorites in the entire game.
@@UDPlaythroughs1990 If by "monorail section," you're talking about the train you run through in a level in Rhythm Route (the world where DeDeDe Clone is the main boss fight), then yes.
A leitmotif is a whole song or a string of notes that is associated with a specific character, place, object, or idea. It’s basically the theme of (noun), where (noun) can be basically anything. If a song isn’t associated with something in particular, it’s not a leitmotif.
Funny thing about the Resident Evil basement music is that it very likely just had the wrong instrumentation applied. Observe: watch?v=9oByTUQjCFg Of course, when you're pretending to be deaf you can't exactly correct the staff on that. Either way I'm glad the Remake pulled more from the original soundtrack than Dualshock's. The sudden plot here makes me think of Dynamite Headdy and how the English release removed about 95% of the character dialogue, only having it in a select few moments.
Most bizarre thing about Susie is that they mistranslated her bio in Guest Star Star Allies Go so instead of her going on a redemptive journey they have her continue her father's work of mechanizing planets
Japan using ex in place of extra has been going on since the snes, the game series in particular I noticed the trend before kirby was the breath of fire games, if your characters were twice as fast as the enemy they would an EXturn.
Speaking as someone who's been remixing various tracks in Undertale's soundtrack as a pasttime/hobby, I'd say there are way more recurring melodies than 3 or 5 as Johnny puts it. Sure, a lot of melodies DO recur, but the number's not that low, that's for sure. I think it's a simplification to say "There are only 3 or 5 original tracks in the game".
3:40 Alright, is it weird when they started talking about Undertale, the theme for the level started to sound like Snowdin’s theme if you listened close enough?
I think Epic Yarn is alright. I own the 3DS version of that game, and it’s fun enough. It’s definitely different than other Kirby games, but there’s still enough recognizable traits. Plus, I liked how they still managed to utilize Kirby’s copy abilities through the various hats you could get.
Impressive that Ted could perfectly replicate the Megalovania notes too bad he used all of his powers on that song and didn't have enough for the later songs in the video.
Speaking of recurring themes... I love how "Past Below", a mid-game map theme in FE Fates, is played backwards and made to be the Prologue chapter map theme. Guess what it's called? "Woleb Tsap" 🙄
Squeak Squad doesn't play like adventure & amazing mirror, it plays like Super Star-lite. The argument that Epic Yarn isn't a real Kirby game is dumb, none of the spin-offs play like traditional Kirby and not even all of them have copy abilities...they're different.
To be fair, Epic Yarn definitely feels like a game that added Kirby at the last minute. It was originally going to be a new IP, but then Nintendo pressured the developers to make it a Kirby game in order to sell well.
I'd like to add onto the leitmotif discussion, but dead offhand, I can't think of many examples that use leitmotifs well outside of Undertale/Deltarune. The only immediate example I can think of that I like is DDLC.
I guess it depends on what you've experienced, but from what I've seen jrpgs typically tend to have a leitmotif throughout the game. Things like Persona 3 having "Memories of you," popping up more the closer you get to the endgame, finishing when you reach the credits and finally get the full song or Xenoblade 2 having multiple leitmotifs, the most common one being Elysium in the blue sky.
That problem Ted mentioned with the Haltmann leitmotif is the problem I have with the Undertale leitmotif from Undertale. Why does it play in the hotel songs??? Granted I love the Undertale OST but its use of leitmotifs can be questionable
How many people agree with ted on his thought that the president haltman battle is just a “repeat” of the susie battle? When I first fought haltman I didn’t even see the similarities between the two fights. Does anyone else think they’re different enough to warrant?
Well he is her father after all so it makes sense to copy her moveset it's just a harder variation of the fight which is more than enough to be different.
Personal opinion: it's obviously thematically incredibly similar. 2D straight plane that turns into circular 2D plane, character is in a drillbot with floating hands that can shoot up drones that fall down and explode. Each have unique attacks but Susie is undoubtedly a tutorial for Haltmann.
@OmnimonX12345 I get it’s similar now. But I don’t get how ted views it as a bad thing. Considering how different they are. Again I didn’t even realize my first playthrough in 2016.
@@darius8077 Can't speak for Ted but for me having a tutorial for a late game boss screams "easy and underwhelming" as in I've seen and done this before, so this harder version is in no way special despite the boss being literally the main antagonist. Sonic Forces suffered similar problems with recycled bosses, it just makes those encounters feel way less special even though they're supposed to be climactic. But maybe I'm looking way too deep into baby kirby game for baby gamers, idk
I feel like the 3DS era in general was full of games that excessively used leitmotifs. That or the Yoshi's New Island soundtrack has tainted my perspective beyond recovery.
Okay, if the entire Undertale soundtrack is, at most, 5 songs remixed to h÷)) and back, then what is the elevator noise a remix of/remixed into? (No kidding, it's an actual song on the soundtrack. Look it up if you don't believe me.)
Personally, I think they should bring back the concept of a human love interest that was scrapped early in the development of the Kirby franchise. They should also add time travel.
What human love interest? That has never been planned for the Kirby series. Even if it was, why would you want that idea back? Kirby's asexual, you ding-dong. Besides, Dreamland doesn't have humans, it's too imaginative for that.
The problem with Undertale is that you had to have played it within the first three months of its release or you would've lost interest due to either being spoiled on the whole thing or sheer overexposure and any sort of magic the game could've had has completely fizzled out on you. Also Undertale does have a great soundtrack, but just like with Ace Attorney, I personally can only really listen to the orchestral arrangements of its pieces and not the originals.
I played UT first in 2019 and it's still one of my favorite games. I got burnt out on the fandom pretty hard around 2016, but after all the hype, I could just enjoy the game for what it was. It also helped that for as much as people talked about it, I wasn't really THAT interested in it at the time, so I avoided most of the spoilers.
I was waiting for the musical leimotif thing to turn to Undertale. TBH I feel like outside character themes which obviously belong to anything with a certain character, generally the leimotifs are slightly different enough or combined that I think it's not as noticeable (e.g. ghost fight in Spider dance isn't obvious) and there's like, at least a good 20 totally unique themes. 5:10 *Meanwhile looks at sans' regular theme that is literally named sans* Like given smash he's never gonna escape megalovania but man the song that might play when you fight sans is a fun song too even if it's unused. Also I wouldn't say Toby ever necessarily wanted to make megalovania a totaka's song, more just he probably wanted a surprise for people familiar with his work and/or there's arguments about meta theming. Also honestly I'm calling it now that he's gonna specifically fake us out in Deltarune and not use it at all, use the first 4 notes as a joke, or use his "follow up" earthbound fan song, megalo strikes back. Even if sans gets a battle, he might finally use "song that might play when you fight sans" 9:35 kinda unfair to blame robobot's remixes when it's just using canvas curse's nightmare theme. (EDIT: and its remix of grape garden). like maybe judge the choice to use that version but it's not a mark on robobot's own remix style TBH Dream land 2 is probably my second least favorite kirby platformer aside from amazing mirror, but I think it's still okay. 13:57 I've seen a lot of epic yarn fans dunno what ryan's on there. Also i feel like epic yarn at least kiiiiiiiiiiiinda feels fitting to the kirby mood I'd say the main thing that makes modern Kirby distinctly "modern" is that the 4 games feel more similar to each other than they do to the older games, plus they generally tend to share similar visual styles, similar "new mascot villain/underling," Kumazaki's pause lore, and a lot of internal resemblance. 20:27 I love how Kirby gets angry when Susie just goes and straight up insults his whole planet like that.
There's a nightmare remix? Also, am I the only person who thinks kirby doesn't need to go full 3d? Though I did enjoy Battle Royale and that Blowout minigame.
Ok BRAINSCRATCH, I'm calling this and being correct as polite as can be that's not Antonio Banderas. Its Eric Stuart doing a passible Banderas. Also, feamale Corrin better and cannon.
*Hyperon’s Planet Robonotes* -7:04 ...I did not know that... -8:06 The final boss theme is just 02. -17:27 But I liked that game... -Love How Ted says Kirby isn’t listening at the same time he gets angry upon Susie calling the inhabitants obstacles. -21:12 I cANT believe AntDude has a trash opinion.
I'm in agreement here. I loved Triple deluxe a lot more compared to Robobot. if it makes any sense, the robobot felt like a gimmick where the dream fruit felt like a natural extension of Kirby's inherent power. I love playing Doctor Healmore in the Kirby Clash RPG along with time wizard but the doctor powerup felt kinda lesser. the meta Knightmare campaign felt really lesser compared to DDD tour. because a better hammer ability with harder bosses feels natural, it felt like a fair challenge of your abilities. Meta Knightmare returns however, despite the fact you can clear any obstacle without issue, and standard enemies are no problem, the bosses are the issue here. Cause now every main boss has like 3 or more phases, your sword is ONLY ever as strong as the standard sword (meaning your damage on bosses and mini-bosses are jack-squat), and your screen clearing attack brought back from Meta Knightmare Ultra (from Kirby Superstar Ultra on DS) is WORTHLESS on bosses, and the meta knight final smash from brawl is short range and ALSO WORTHLESS. back in M-KU the screen clear would kill every boss up to the second boss in milky way galaxy, while still dealing a LOT of damage, conserving the meta points for the screen nuke was a legitimate strategy. also the timer never stops for the phase transitions, and all the minibosses in the final world are difficult to kill before they choose to self destruct for meta knight, meaning you probably lost resources for meager Meta-Points you cannot receive.
It's still a gimmick...and since it's less versatile, it's not as good anyway. It doesn't really matter that it's an extension of the suck....the robot armor has copy abilities. It's the same principle.
..Are you okay there? You just created a whole pillar ranting about something that isn't really a problem. Meta Knight's screen nuke ability isn't worthless against bosses, it shaves off a fourth of their health. You can easily nab Meta Points during bossfights too. So how the hell do you find Meta Knightmare Returns too difficult?
Gameplay wise, Hypernova is just as much gimmick as the robobot armour, the robot is just better since it has variety and real gameplay through copy abilities. Story wise, aliens invading has been a kirby theme for a while as opposed to random saints of flowers suddenly appearing with a mcguffin
I love the OST in Planet Robobot. Patched Plains is a great one for example. Also Ted is wrong about Suise. She is the greatest and Taranza sucks. I never cared for the spider guy since he spent the entire game being evil and suddenly "I'm good". Susie on the other hand has a motive to take down her boss since she thinks he's a cruel man.
The thing about Taranza is Sectonia his girlfriend and or wife went evil because of a magic mirror and had to do her bidding. But when she started beating him and shit he helps Kirby with their relationship issues.
The crew commenting on Megalovania is one of the few times I can't stand listening to any of them. Not cuz of their opinions in any way, I'm just way too tired of discussions around that game, and especially around Sans.
@Meganime Tbh I can't even justify what I said. Like, yeah, the hype around was insane half a decade ago and I couldn't stand the overexposure, but I've played it since then, all three paths, and it's a(n at least) good game with an undeniably amazing soundtrack. I enjoyed my time a lot. But I obviously still have a disdain for it being mentioned. It's quite weird and I have no defense
The haltmann theme being prevalent throughout 80% of the soundtrack makes sense seeing how he’s already robotisized all of Popstar.
Makes sense
The areas and bosses are all direct results of Haltmann
Unlike Triple Deluxe where the areas were all naturally formed and most bosses existed in some form before Taranzas magic
@@OriginalGameteer Yes I just feel that Ted is a bit too picky with music I like the Yogurt Yard remix in this game is great.
True and there is a great remix of the song if you 100% the game to unlock it
Also it's a really catchy song, and I will never get sick of it. Guess Ted has a low tolerance or something.
@@JMandJJ7797 big shocker amirite
the discussion about Megalovania being Sans's theme and why reminded me about Stardust Speedway essentially becoming Metal Sonic's theme even though its not HIS theme, its the stage's theme
I remember reading that a big reason why the Haltmann theme works as a motif is how it emphasizes how PopStar has been deeply altered by Haltmanns mechanical takeover and how he was the one responsible for all of it.
THE biggest missed opportunity in Planet Robobot was any kind of way to engage in a Robobot mech duel against either Susie or Haltmann himself.
They really don't do much with that Armor except for the C.O.G.S, Gigavolt fight, A familiar enemy from Kirby based on a Blimp and the one that comes later on, kinda wish they did more boss fights with the Robobot like Real Steel against Susie/President
The second biggest missed opportunity was not bringing back Heavy Lobster.
Yeah, thats one thing that bummed me out about it since for the most part, the robobot still ends up getting used mostly for puzzles in the stages instead of letting you keep the thing if you're good enough for fights and the like.
Ted complaining about the remixes of Nightmare and the Airship to say Robobot’s soundtrack is bad when those remixes are reused from Canvas Curse.
Really didn't know that O_O I never played Canvas Curse outside of seeing the Drawcia Soul fight.
Oh wow, Ted's actually using the Circus ability. Usually most people don't give it a chance.
@@roslynnerentas8939 Never played it myself. But from other videos i've watched, people ditch circus almost immediately or so it's too "gimmicky"
The Noble Haltmann, it is rare for a game to straight up tell you what the name of a song is without going to the sound test
Regardless of what you think of Undertale as a game, I think the way its music used motifs to sort of become a story element is both clever and impressive, since specific motifs are always used for specific reasons, and in some cases provide more story details than the scene they play in due to how they're handled. It's an aspect of the soundtrack that I actually wish more rpgs or story based games took advantage of.
"I like Susie."
"I think she's an asshole?"
"So?"
I mean... yeah. Villains (and ex-villains) in Kirby games get a LOT of love. Heck, it's pretty much the reason Star Allies did what it did.
Nobody's mentioning the drinking glasses, chintzy chandeliers or the roboticized Acro bosses in the swimming stage.
Those giant structures in the background are supposed to be drinking glasses? I never noticed that before.
I noticed the other background features but I did not know those whale sharks where Acro O_O
The biggest example of Bootstrapped Leitmotif in video games is Ridley's theme. Premiered in Super Metroid as the escape theme for both Ceres Station and Zebes and the boss themes for Ridley, Draygon, and both Torizo statues, ever since it's been his theme in everything he's appeared in, both Metroid and non-Metroid games (and sometimes pulls double duty as the escape theme).
That's why I hate that theme specifically
Ridley's original theme was supposed to be his lair theme from the original game
But since fusion they just sticked to being major boss 2 from super metroid
You talk about Meta Knight becoming buff as a joke, but remember, that’s what literally happened to Dedede in Star Allies
Yes and if you play as Dedede they gave him his boss fight moves which makes him op in the Ultimate Choice.
@@SonBlackHeart22 they did the same with the 3 mage sisters but made it so there charge attacks happen faster making them more op then there boss fight versions
@@andrewaftontheandroidhedge2780 Now that is op
@@SonBlackHeart22 the they all come in you can swithc one of the mage sisters you play as at any time
Corrin only cries in Birthright. In Conquest he's happy because he has a beautiful Amazonian adoptive sister who loves him immensely to marry.
Conquest seems more entertaining
Personally I don't mind the Susie boss being conceptually similar, they are father and daughter after all. Plus, they are both bussiness ppl, not world conquering creatures.
11:45
This song is actually from Canvas Curse btw, so blame that game instead
Edit: it's Machine Mansion, which is a remix of "Underground Stage" which shows up in Vegetable Valley 2 from Kirby's Adventure. Most probably know it as the Minecart Riding theme from Super Star
Oh wasn't it used as well in Orange Ocean in Adventure too in the underwater cave areas too I always called the song that.
@@SonBlackHeart22 Yep! The track tends to show up in underground areas across different levels, but I just listed the first one I was aware of
2:00 on the topic of the leitmotif, Triple Deluxe also uses its hypernova leitmotif a lot
As for the music, it's really just personal preference. If you like techno music, you'll prefer this soundtrack. If you like more instrumental music, than Triple Deluxe's soundtrack will appeal more
Edit: If you want to talk about overused leitmotif in the Kirby series, Star Allies' soundtrack is like 50% Green Greens and 45% Song of Supplication
The theme that plays when Fury Bowser appears from his shell is EXTREMELY similar to the one that plays when Bowser slowly lowers down in the Clown Car in Super Mario World.
That's because it's a remix of that theme.
So little bit of trivia: Susie's (and Haltmann's) mech is based on a beta Robobot Armor design.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure the EX stages just port over tracks from other games instead of remixing them. The Yogurt Yard remix I know for certain is from Canvas Curse because that game has a weird fascination with the kazoo.
The thing that makes Dededetour not as fun as Meta Knightmare isn't just that Dedede doesn't get new moves from points he collects, though it certainly would've helped, it's that Dededetour isn't well-paced. The idea with Dededetour is that you solve puzzles so you can find shortcuts that take you further into the world, which by itself is a neat concept. The problem is that Royal Road, the last world, has barely any shortcuts, and so even when played close to optimally, that world can still take you an hour. Meta Knightmare doesn't have that kind of pacing issue.
honestly i love the music from planet robobot alot more than triple deluxe, but i also jsut prefer robobot over triple deluxe in general
19:50 "randomly" is more dependent on whether you consider the boss-pause screens as part of the main story, which most do so not really sure if it's random. because those pause screens give some interesting context for the bosses you're fighting like roboticized wispy woods and later mecha knight
Not to mention fighting Clanky Woods helps to show how vastly different the mechanizing project can change the familiar, and the Holo Defense system foreshadowing Haltman's use and copying of other ancient technology (being based on Pix from 64).
I'm convinced that Corrin doesn't wear shoes because Int Sys wanted to show off their new Feet Technology™ as a sign of how far they had come with the 3DS graphics.
When it comes to leitmotifs, Persona 4 is probably my favorite case of that in a soundtrack. It made the final boss theme (when it got to that point) and credits music really stick with me.
I already loved the thing with Genesis for so long, but when I found out about the one in Mist, just last month, I absolutely lost it. And I'm still trying to hear the thing about New Worlds Fool.
P4 did so good.
Apparently the artist for the characters in Fates designed Corrin and Azura without shoes or any other type of foot wear after hearing that they would be prisoners of a sort. Prisoners occasionally don't wear shoes to denote their place in society, I guess.
@@SuperDanMan11100 I like the idea behind the design if that's the case, though I find it funny that it means Corrin marches across a continent during a war campaign without shoes for no in-universe reason.
@@Chconroy It's an interesting idea in concept, but outside of Corrin kicking people and Azura dancing, it is really impractical to run across the continent like that.
Ted in this episode discovers that even Japan has trouble breaking bad habits. We slap "Super" at literally EVERYTHING while they have EX as their word for "super" is more contextual. i.e. Dragonball Super, Super Lightning Spin, etc. That's USUALLY reserved for a stronger version of a technique as well due to mastery. Same with Shin Godzilla being NEW! Godzilla. He's now realizing that he's been using TVTropes for so long that he feels scammed due to the amount of time passing. And the first waifu in this series for a long time appears at 19:43.
Susie's backstory is so sad and Susies's singing is so good.
Ted, the remix you complained about in the start of the EX stage is actually a remix from Canvas Curse. I still find it bizarre that Canvas Curse had a techno soundtrack, but at least it meant that its tracks could fit in with Planet Robobot's extra stages.
On the topic of the Nightmare remix, I think Ted's mixing it up with the remix in Star Allies, because the only final boss theme from the older games that I remember being remixed is the one for Dark Matter.
Yeah the Dark Matter theme from Dreamland 2 got a remix not the Nightmare theme it was remixed in Super Kirby Clash I just think Ted is a bit forgetful
3:05 ted: "it works when it, works." i'd imagine that's how everything works.
i like how picker of nits is just a thing now.
first kirby feet, then fire emblem feet, guys, stop.
Gen 4 nit pick next
Such ignorance. All the EX stages tracks are already existing tracks from other games. Those remixes are from canvas Curse
Hollowknight uses its motifs to story tell if you look deep enough at it. It's really cool
Oh I see how it is; when King Dedede gets super buff, it makes perfect sense for the series, but when Meta Knight does it, suddenly it's a fucking hilarious Sonic the Hedgehog reference!
I associate Megalovania more as just a Boss fight music track than "Sans Theme". I can't imagine him just rolling up and then the game going all DADADADA. It makes sense in Smash for that reason too. It's just a hype boss battle track. Sans just so happened to be that boss in Undertale
A popular fan theory is also that it's meant to represent Chara, or the player themselves, more than it does Sans.
To be fair, there IS a proper Sans theme in the game (with the unused boss battle theme being a sped up version of that piece with a different sound font.)
Well the smash version is more sans/Undertale-esque since it actually has references to other characters.
Oh G-d, you have no idea how much I love the ice cream factory levels. They're so freaking fun! I just have a fondness for food-themed levels. If they don't make me hungry, they at least make the level design an eyesight.
Iirc none of the EX stages uses new remixes, it's all songs or remixes from previous games
The Nightmare remix in the ex stage isn't from Robobot, it and kazoo remix are from Canvas Curse
Also Epic Yarn is amazing and I love it
She's literally Paz Ortega from Peace Walker after defecting from her ally, President Haltmann and Mother Base/Big Boss, they also were Spies working from a different organisation, both piloting mechanical machines, Susie's business suit and Metal Gear Zeke.
I think the best way how they'll make a 3D game is make it like Banjo Kazooie; Collecting macguffins by solving puzzles with or without copy abilities, beating the main boss of the level, and also collect small items to progress the game as well as the main macguffins.
They could just try whatever Kirby 64 is supposed to be, but in a full 3d environment instead of 2.5
The modern Kirby games basically do that but in 2.5D so they might as well have that but in 3D
Have it be like klonoa. More specifically klonoa 2 Lunatea’s veil. Have a huge 3d world while still limited to 2d movement. Maybe make the story more organic like klonoa 2. Instead of having it limited to pause screens.
Super Mario Sunshine is another game that has a leitmotif. The theme for Isle Delfino gets reused for a couple worlds: Ricco Harbor and Gelato Beach.
The Girl of the Hour, the fight is a lot of fun, i also love the Ice Cream Factory and Underwater City, The Noble Haltmann we adore him.
Really this is the threat she doesn't seem so hostile.
Hey Metal Acro haven't seen you since Kirby 64
Meta Knight is Susie's b**ch in this game literally
Kirby Epic yarn 13:50
Behold the first appearance of the best female character in the entire Kirby franchise
Everyone loves Susie! She has a kind heart andI hope to see her infuture games as Kirby's ally.
While the gameplay of the franchise hasn't necessarily changed dramatically in that pre RtDL era (not counting stuff like Canvas Curse of Mass Attack), the period between Adventure to Squeak Squad did seem to enjoy having some defined structure gimmicks (although I guess you can lump the plot mcguffins from the Dark Matter trilogy together in that regard), so I guess that's what Ted is referring to?
I still enjoy Epic Yarn a lot, I just find it really chill and relaxing without boring me.
On the subject of leitmotifs, the Three Houses soundtrack having large chunks be remixes or references to The Edge Of Dawn is one of my favourite examples.
10:44 - Well that explains it! Johnny burns down the orphanage all the time, so of course he isn’t gonna like Rick for volunteering there.
Sonic 06 does the same thing with like 15 remixes of His World in the game.
I know exactly what song AntDude is talking about that plays during a train section and we are now mortal enemies because that song is one of my favorites in the entire game.
Is that the Monorail section later
@@UDPlaythroughs1990 If by "monorail section," you're talking about the train you run through in a level in Rhythm Route (the world where DeDeDe Clone is the main boss fight), then yes.
I love that techno theme you get to see the City a lot more
Ted characters can be assholes and we can still find them adhering and enjoy them.
A leitmotif is a whole song or a string of notes that is associated with a specific character, place, object, or idea. It’s basically the theme of (noun), where (noun) can be basically anything. If a song isn’t associated with something in particular, it’s not a leitmotif.
The Earthbound Halloween hack is infamously bleak.
Good to know that “picking the nits” is officially a saying.
Funny thing about the Resident Evil basement music is that it very likely just had the wrong instrumentation applied. Observe: watch?v=9oByTUQjCFg Of course, when you're pretending to be deaf you can't exactly correct the staff on that. Either way I'm glad the Remake pulled more from the original soundtrack than Dualshock's.
The sudden plot here makes me think of Dynamite Headdy and how the English release removed about 95% of the character dialogue, only having it in a select few moments.
Most bizarre thing about Susie is that they mistranslated her bio in Guest Star Star Allies Go so instead of her going on a redemptive journey they have her continue her father's work of mechanizing planets
3:39 *silently seethes in rage*
Japan using ex in place of extra has been going on since the snes, the game series in particular I noticed the trend before kirby was the breath of fire games, if your characters were twice as fast as the enemy they would an EXturn.
When it comes to good use of leitmotifs, my go-to example is early Thomas the Tank Engine.
Speaking as someone who's been remixing various tracks in Undertale's soundtrack as a pasttime/hobby, I'd say there are way more recurring melodies than 3 or 5 as Johnny puts it. Sure, a lot of melodies DO recur, but the number's not that low, that's for sure. I think it's a simplification to say "There are only 3 or 5 original tracks in the game".
3:40 Alright, is it weird when they started talking about Undertale, the theme for the level started to sound like Snowdin’s theme if you listened close enough?
Susie H: "Oooh what does this button do!!!"
Are you guys talking about the "IDM 1" song in one of the factory levels? 'Cause I really enjoyed listening to it when I played robobot.
Yeah the upbeat fast pace one I don't mind it is just a weird change to the song is all.
I think Epic Yarn is alright.
I own the 3DS version of that game, and it’s fun enough. It’s definitely different than other Kirby games, but there’s still enough recognizable traits. Plus, I liked how they still managed to utilize Kirby’s copy abilities through the various hats you could get.
Impressive that Ted could perfectly replicate the Megalovania notes too bad he used all of his powers on that song and didn't have enough for the later songs in the video.
Watch Toby Fox jebait everybody by not putting Megan in Deltarune, but putting in Megalo Strike Back instead.
Speaking of recurring themes...
I love how "Past Below", a mid-game map theme in FE Fates, is played backwards and made to be the Prologue chapter map theme. Guess what it's called?
"Woleb Tsap" 🙄
1:06
What the hell?!?! Ted- did you inhale something and spit it out all while holding the ice ability?
The thing about Megalovania for me is that each time it was used its always when shit is about to go down
To add to the Mario 64 thing, several other themes have the same or similar progression of notes, I.e. the ice level theme
20:34 not any more, that’s Kirby’s Dream Buffet
Here comes the Waifu Wars
Hey Ted, is this game going to see a re-release for the Switch?
Would a Kirby game in the style of 3D World be good enough?
Squeak Squad doesn't play like adventure & amazing mirror, it plays like Super Star-lite.
The argument that Epic Yarn isn't a real Kirby game is dumb, none of the spin-offs play like traditional Kirby and not even all of them have copy abilities...they're different.
To be fair, Epic Yarn definitely feels like a game that added Kirby at the last minute. It was originally going to be a new IP, but then Nintendo pressured the developers to make it a Kirby game in order to sell well.
I'd like to add onto the leitmotif discussion, but dead offhand, I can't think of many examples that use leitmotifs well outside of Undertale/Deltarune.
The only immediate example I can think of that I like is DDLC.
Hollowknight uses it brilliantly as a story telling tool. There's a youtube video on it
@@piece629 Okay. It's an example I wouldn't have thought of because I haven't played it.
Another one Gex 3 Deep Cover Gecko, listen to every level theme it's a variation of the main theme.
Most things you watch tend to use leitmotifs well...
I guess it depends on what you've experienced, but from what I've seen jrpgs typically tend to have a leitmotif throughout the game. Things like Persona 3 having "Memories of you," popping up more the closer you get to the endgame, finishing when you reach the credits and finally get the full song or Xenoblade 2 having multiple leitmotifs, the most common one being Elysium in the blue sky.
Triple Deluxe also had fucking Verdi in the promotional material, so that’s a plus...
That problem Ted mentioned with the Haltmann leitmotif is the problem I have with the Undertale leitmotif from Undertale. Why does it play in the hotel songs???
Granted I love the Undertale OST but its use of leitmotifs can be questionable
i am waiting for hal to make a ice-cream kirby
The talking about leitmotifs and bootstrapped themes makes me wonder. Does Kirby have any themes like those that apply to him?
Green Greens
How many people agree with ted on his thought that the president haltman battle is just a “repeat” of the susie battle? When I first fought haltman I didn’t even see the similarities between the two fights. Does anyone else think they’re different enough to warrant?
Well he is her father after all so it makes sense to copy her moveset it's just a harder variation of the fight which is more than enough to be different.
Personal opinion: it's obviously thematically incredibly similar. 2D straight plane that turns into circular 2D plane, character is in a drillbot with floating hands that can shoot up drones that fall down and explode.
Each have unique attacks but Susie is undoubtedly a tutorial for Haltmann.
@OmnimonX12345 I get it’s similar now. But I don’t get how ted views it as a bad thing. Considering how different they are. Again I didn’t even realize my first playthrough in 2016.
@@darius8077 Can't speak for Ted but for me having a tutorial for a late game boss screams "easy and underwhelming" as in I've seen and done this before, so this harder version is in no way special despite the boss being literally the main antagonist. Sonic Forces suffered similar problems with recycled bosses, it just makes those encounters feel way less special even though they're supposed to be climactic.
But maybe I'm looking way too deep into baby kirby game for baby gamers, idk
(I say that as someone who's beaten Robobot 100% btw, I too am a baby gamer)
I feel like the 3DS era in general was full of games that excessively used leitmotifs. That or the Yoshi's New Island soundtrack has tainted my perspective beyond recovery.
So who's better Taranza or Susie?
Susie. Susie.
Taranza
Susie
Okay, if the entire Undertale soundtrack is, at most, 5 songs remixed to h÷)) and back, then what is the elevator noise a remix of/remixed into? (No kidding, it's an actual song on the soundtrack. Look it up if you don't believe me.)
I disagree, motifs are what make soundtracks good, the best kind of music would be a track made entirely out of motifs.
Damn Susie is pretty sus
Personally, I think they should bring back the concept of a human love interest that was scrapped early in the development of the Kirby franchise. They should also add time travel.
Isn't that a Sonic thing
What human love interest? That has never been planned for the Kirby series. Even if it was, why would you want that idea back? Kirby's asexual, you ding-dong. Besides, Dreamland doesn't have humans, it's too imaginative for that.
@@jlev1028
-----JOKE-------
I I
I I
------I YOU I-------->
The problem with Undertale is that you had to have played it within the first three months of its release or you would've lost interest due to either being spoiled on the whole thing or sheer overexposure and any sort of magic the game could've had has completely fizzled out on you. Also Undertale does have a great soundtrack, but just like with Ace Attorney, I personally can only really listen to the orchestral arrangements of its pieces and not the originals.
I played UT first in 2019 and it's still one of my favorite games.
I got burnt out on the fandom pretty hard around 2016, but after all the hype, I could just enjoy the game for what it was. It also helped that for as much as people talked about it, I wasn't really THAT interested in it at the time, so I avoided most of the spoilers.
I was waiting for the musical leimotif thing to turn to Undertale. TBH I feel like outside character themes which obviously belong to anything with a certain character, generally the leimotifs are slightly different enough or combined that I think it's not as noticeable (e.g. ghost fight in Spider dance isn't obvious) and there's like, at least a good 20 totally unique themes.
5:10 *Meanwhile looks at sans' regular theme that is literally named sans*
Like given smash he's never gonna escape megalovania but man the song that might play when you fight sans is a fun song too even if it's unused.
Also I wouldn't say Toby ever necessarily wanted to make megalovania a totaka's song, more just he probably wanted a surprise for people familiar with his work and/or there's arguments about meta theming. Also honestly I'm calling it now that he's gonna specifically fake us out in Deltarune and not use it at all, use the first 4 notes as a joke, or use his "follow up" earthbound fan song, megalo strikes back. Even if sans gets a battle, he might finally use "song that might play when you fight sans"
9:35 kinda unfair to blame robobot's remixes when it's just using canvas curse's nightmare theme. (EDIT: and its remix of grape garden). like maybe judge the choice to use that version but it's not a mark on robobot's own remix style
TBH Dream land 2 is probably my second least favorite kirby platformer aside from amazing mirror, but I think it's still okay.
13:57 I've seen a lot of epic yarn fans dunno what ryan's on there. Also i feel like epic yarn at least kiiiiiiiiiiiinda feels fitting to the kirby mood
I'd say the main thing that makes modern Kirby distinctly "modern" is that the 4 games feel more similar to each other than they do to the older games, plus they generally tend to share similar visual styles, similar "new mascot villain/underling," Kumazaki's pause lore, and a lot of internal resemblance.
20:27 I love how Kirby gets angry when Susie just goes and straight up insults his whole planet like that.
There's a nightmare remix? Also, am I the only person who thinks kirby doesn't need to go full 3d? Though I did enjoy Battle Royale and that Blowout minigame.
20:05 What does Ant say here?
are they pausing for lore?
They haven't done it on the other previous boss fights so maybe they will pause it during the Finale? Or not
Ok who is the better waifu Susie or the Mage Sisters also ice cream level is the best stage in the game as well show me how amazing ice is.
It's a tie Francisca Vs Susie
Why not all of the above?
@@Mario9919DX True is just no one can decide who is better.
Ok BRAINSCRATCH, I'm calling this and being correct as polite as can be that's not Antonio Banderas. Its Eric Stuart doing a passible Banderas. Also, feamale Corrin better and cannon.
*Hyperon’s Planet Robonotes*
-7:04 ...I did not know that...
-8:06 The final boss theme is just 02.
-17:27 But I liked that game...
-Love How Ted says Kirby isn’t listening at the same time he gets angry upon Susie calling the inhabitants obstacles.
-21:12 I cANT believe AntDude has a trash opinion.
Actually it's a remix of the Halberd theme from Revenge of Meta Knight for Phase 1.
In my opinion people love Megalovania not sans
True suffering is seeing this deluge of new 2D Kirby games being released since 2010 yet only two new DKC titles since then
Man, these games really need a Switch port, maybe for it’s anniversary?
I'm in agreement here. I loved Triple deluxe a lot more compared to Robobot. if it makes any sense, the robobot felt like a gimmick where the dream fruit felt like a natural extension of Kirby's inherent power. I love playing Doctor Healmore in the Kirby Clash RPG along with time wizard but the doctor powerup felt kinda lesser.
the meta Knightmare campaign felt really lesser compared to DDD tour. because a better hammer ability with harder bosses feels natural, it felt like a fair challenge of your abilities. Meta Knightmare returns however, despite the fact you can clear any obstacle without issue, and standard enemies are no problem, the bosses are the issue here. Cause now every main boss has like 3 or more phases, your sword is ONLY ever as strong as the standard sword (meaning your damage on bosses and mini-bosses are jack-squat), and your screen clearing attack brought back from Meta Knightmare Ultra (from Kirby Superstar Ultra on DS) is WORTHLESS on bosses, and the meta knight final smash from brawl is short range and ALSO WORTHLESS. back in M-KU the screen clear would kill every boss up to the second boss in milky way galaxy, while still dealing a LOT of damage, conserving the meta points for the screen nuke was a legitimate strategy. also the timer never stops for the phase transitions, and all the minibosses in the final world are difficult to kill before they choose to self destruct for meta knight, meaning you probably lost resources for meager Meta-Points you cannot receive.
It's still a gimmick...and since it's less versatile, it's not as good anyway.
It doesn't really matter that it's an extension of the suck....the robot armor has copy abilities. It's the same principle.
..Are you okay there? You just created a whole pillar ranting about something that isn't really a problem. Meta Knight's screen nuke ability isn't worthless against bosses, it shaves off a fourth of their health. You can easily nab Meta Points during bossfights too. So how the hell do you find Meta Knightmare Returns too difficult?
Gameplay wise, Hypernova is just as much gimmick as the robobot armour, the robot is just better since it has variety and real gameplay through copy abilities.
Story wise, aliens invading has been a kirby theme for a while as opposed to random saints of flowers suddenly appearing with a mcguffin
I love the OST in Planet Robobot. Patched Plains is a great one for example.
Also Ted is wrong about Suise. She is the greatest and Taranza sucks. I never cared for the spider guy since he spent the entire game being evil and suddenly "I'm good". Susie on the other hand has a motive to take down her boss since she thinks he's a cruel man.
The thing about Taranza is Sectonia his girlfriend and or wife went evil because of a magic mirror and had to do her bidding. But when she started beating him and shit he helps Kirby with their relationship issues.
@@JMandJJ7797 I thought Taranza was her servenat. Either way I don't like/or care for him. Also you really don't actually FIGHT him.
The crew commenting on Megalovania is one of the few times I can't stand listening to any of them. Not cuz of their opinions in any way, I'm just way too tired of discussions around that game, and especially around Sans.
@Meganime Tbh I can't even justify what I said. Like, yeah, the hype around was insane half a decade ago and I couldn't stand the overexposure, but I've played it since then, all three paths, and it's a(n at least) good game with an undeniably amazing soundtrack. I enjoyed my time a lot.
But I obviously still have a disdain for it being mentioned. It's quite weird and I have no defense