Tigli is so pretty with his white fur, and it’s great to hear that he already gets along with the other foxes. Tigli basically won the lottery when he landed with all of ya’ll at animal wonders, whether he knows it or not yet!😅
I wish we had stronger laws about selling wild animals as pets. There should be a very small list of animals that have been proven to be compatible as pets, with licensing and monitoring being required for anything outside of that list.
Yes. This is so important. I also think the breeding of specific breeds with intrinsic health issues should be highly regulated. Beating an animal with a stick until they are in chronic pain and debilitated for life is considered completely unacceptable, but breeding pain into animals (bracysephalic dogs, enigma geckos, halter quarter horses, etc) is completely accepted and legal. When we choose to have a pet we are responsible for their wellbeing and health, as well as the health of any offspring they produce. Foxes should not be pets. Aesthetics should not be prioritized over health. This seems so obvious to me, and I just don’t get why people are so adamant that there be no regulation.
I don't know if I agree 100% with the method here, however I do agree that there needs to be something done about selling wild animals. However, while some improvements to existing laws, and some new more strict laws can definitely be made, I don't know if stronger laws is the best overall answer. My first thought here is simply that how are you going to enforce those laws? I know first hand that they are incapable of strong enforcement of the laws that are already out there. I think the key is education. That should be the first step. The problem we have here, and it's obvious from just the three posts here is that the method of taking care of the problem because VERY opinion based and very controversial as to whats going to be best and most effective. The only thing that is easy to agree on is that something definitely needs to be done. I do agree with Tiny Valkyrie that aesthetics should not be prioritized over health. That's why when I get my standard poodle it's gotta have dew claws and a full length tail. On those dogs, once upon a time, the tail length was actually a work based thing and helped protect the animal in the line of work that they did. Nowadays it's pointless for all but looks in almost every situation. A lot of people will tell you that the dew claws are useless and can even cause problems. While it is possible for them to tear, it's very rare overall. However, the latest studies show that in dogs with attached dew claws, (attached to muscle that is attached through a series of tendons to bone, not just floating loosely or unattached) the claws are indeed used with great purpose including but not by any means limited to stability during high speed or sharp turns, climbing out of tricky situations, and so on. On the other hand, not having dew claws can lead to weakness in the leg and hip joints over a period of the dogs life due to twisting. So anyway,
Walt R. Buck I completely agree with your statement that education comes first, and is always the best solution. Most people don’t know the risks of getting these animals until it’s too late, often because the breeders and sellers of these animals actively conceal it. This is compounded by the fact that people buy these critters on impulse. I do disagree, however, with the opinion that other methods of enforcement are impractical. The best way to take a big chunk out of the distribution of these animals is by focusing on the shows and expos. For example, in the UK, cropped and docked dogs cannot be shown at kennel clubs, and that had a drastic impact, even in the pet trade. You rarely see dogs with docked tails or cropped ears (except for medical reasons) at all there. Similarly, spider ball pythons and enigma geckos cannot be sold at reptile expos in the UK. You can still purchase them legally privately, but their numbers have been drastically reduced, simply by enforcing the relatively small number of expos. That approach requires comparatively few resources and has a proportionally large impact. Additionally, it encourages the communities that sell these animals to self regulate, at least to a certain extent. Granted, the trade of animal species that are clearly unsuitable as pets, such as foxes, is an entirely different issue, that I am much less knowledgeable about. That said, it is definitely true that there are a variety of levels of regulation between states. For example many more people own monkeys in Florida where it is legal, compared to other states where it is not. I’m not sure how regulation and distribution disruption works in that case however. I think the general argument that we shouldn’t have laws if we can’t enforce them completely is not a particularly useful one, but that is simply my opinion. As a side note, standard poodles are wonderful dogs. I wish you the best of luck when you get yours!
My son has developmental disabilities... He wanted me to let you know that he enjoyed your video on the artic fox very much. You make good videos. Thank you.
I love your demonstration of negative reinforcement. I work with horses, and almost all horse training is done this way. Apply a mildly uncomfortable stimulus to elicit a behavior, and immediately remove it when you get that behavior. Often classic positive reinforcement, especially with food, doesn’t work on horses, because in the wild they dont have to “work” for their food the same way a predator or scavenger does. Therefore the instinct of “got food because did good thing” is much weaker in them. Instead, you have to take advantage of their very strong understanding of social hierarchy and strong reactions to environmental stimulus. I find people run into trouble when they treat horses like dogs, or don’t understand how quickly you need to remove the negative stimulus once you get even a small desired reaction. Don’t get me wrong, I bribe my horses like crazy with treats, but that’s more a general way to make the experience of interacting with me a fun one for everyone involved, rather than a direct reward. They get treats regardless of how the session went.
It works amazingly with horses. I adopted two mustangs, untouched other than vaccinations given in a pin chute, and had first touch within three days just by using pressure and release - negative reinforcement - with free movement available in a round pen. That means face them square on at the point of the shoulder, so they instinctively move forward to get away from your 'aggressive' focus. A horse's instinct to flee needs to be given room for expression, hence the round pen with no corners to get 'stuck' in and panic. As soon as they stop running away, turn around and walk away from them. No ropes, whips, or anything of that nature needed, no waving your hands or yelling at them, just using your body and gaze to focus on them directly. As soon as they realize that stopping earns a reward, it's a short step to them taking a step after you as you walk away, and before you know it they've practically taught themselves to lead before you ever put a halter on them. Make sure to 'touch' using social 'pleasure' stimuli, such as a scratch on the point just behind the withers, and it was just like a waterfall after that, with them following me around like overgrown puppies begging for scratches. The bay was adopted pretty young (but already well weaned, of course) the other was four, and the bay would only eat new food after she saw me eat it, just as a foal watches what its dam eats to see what's safe. Her favorite treats were cinnamon gummy bears and peppermint puffs.
@@Oxyacantha roundpen work is the cornerstone to any good horse/human relationship in my opinion. When I started riding, I rode hunters. All we were taught was to control a horse through intense discomfort; spurs, crops, leveraged bits, etc. It wasn’t until I got seriously injured that I started to question that approach. It took me over a year to recover enough to ride, and during that time, a wonderful local horsewoman took me under her wing and undid all the bad habits I developed in the Hunter ring. The first time I linked up with a horse during a round pen ground work session was a revelation to me. It was so quick, and it was so much kinder than what I had learned before. It still feels like magic to this day. In some ways I’m glad for the injury since it put me on the right path. Light pressure, and release. Works every time (almost).
Thank you for pointing out how negative reinforcement is different from punishment and how it can be used in training when positive reinforcement is unavailable or not possible. Also Tigli is absolutely adorable. I loved seeing him run around outside. I hope he warms up to your presence soon so more people can see him be an ambassador.
Seeing him play outside made me wonder if the foxes would enjoy an enclosure with outdoor access, and what sorts of requirements they would have (they look like they could probably dig under a fence!)
Good question! I have a VERY long answer 😄 There's a few things to take into consideration for an outdoor space for the foxes and most of them have held us back from going forward with it. First is cost: it cost about $17k to build an outdoor yard for Huckleberry the beaver (not including the foundation work which is super pricey!). I'm guessing it would be about the same for a fox yard. This is because it's not like building a fence for your pet dog, it would need to be built to USDA regulations including a secondary 6' perimeter fence. Foxes can dig and they can climb so it would have to be very secure fencing materials including a fenced ceiling that could also hold up to our Montana winters for then next 10 years minimum. Second is rabies: while all the foxes get their vaccinations annually, there is no guarantee that the canine or feline rabies vaccine is 100% effective according to federal regulations. And since we take the foxes off-site for public presentations and have multiple employees feed and clean them, the risk of someone getting nipped and then us having to euthanize the fox to test if they had rabies is too much. Don't get me wrong, the chance of this actually happening is low, but even so, it's too high for us. If we can guarantee that there has been no access to any potentially infected wildlife, we can protect the foxes better than if they had an outdoor space where something like a rabid bat got some of their fluids in the foxes water or a rabid skunk sprayed them or got pulled through the bars. It's happened at other facilities and from the beginning we chose to avoid the risk by keeping the foxes in a roofed and solid walled "outdoor" space with a dirt floor (fence barrier 4' under the dirt so they can't dig out) and triple protected window open to the outside air. Third is space: the way the current fox enclosure is constructed and where it's located, we couldn't easily just put a yard onto the back of it. We'd really have to start fresh and build a whole new building with a yard attached to the back. Since Montana winters are so intense, we can't just slap a structure together or it would cave in with the snow load. Overall the project would just be too costly. Can you tell I've thought long and hard about this?
That's so interesting! I figured that cost would be a major factor because building anything is generally expensive (and if the winter in Montana is anything like in Minnesota that's another challenge for sure), but I had no idea about rabies! That makes me wonder about outdoor/feral cats in my area, since there's apparently quite a few rabid bats near me 🤔 Thankfully I don't think many people let their cats roam since it's a city and there's a fair bit of traffic.
@@animalwondersmontana I *can* tell that you've thought long and hard about this, and your love, care, and dedication to "your" animals truly shows. You're doing some great and important work here.
@@animalwondersmontana jessi I hope I spelled it correctly I love all animals and I also love you're animals I'm so sorry for cas and all you're animal's that get sick and do you have a dog because there are lots of dogs in my country
I love that you adopted a friend for Seraphina. The fact that was saved from an uncertain future as "pet" means he needed you guys as much as Seraphina will need him. I love Cas, and his bond with Seraphina. I was worried her heart would break when the time comes for Cass to cross the bridge. Now she has someone to help her pick up the pieces when it does.
What a beautiful boy! I'm so glad you've been able to introduce a new fox successfully and that seraphina will continue to have strange white companions for years to come! I had been worried since the last few videos where cas has shown his age about how she would manage her lifelong companion's shorter lifespan, so glad to see how clearly you've been thinking about the future too!
How did I forget to hit the subscribe button!? I remember this channel! (found it again from Eons). Foxes are fascinating creatures. They're smart, way smarter then most of the dogs I've had or known, and that means they do take to human contact more readily then other wild creatures. I've lived near a vixen that was quite comfortable with my presence outside (she lived in my back yard). to the extent that I'd be in one patio chair and she'd sit in the other if I didn't move too much. I didn't feed her or name her because that's unethical. But the idea was tempting. She was better at catching the field mice then the cat. I loved that cat but she was *useless*. And I've met Fennecs that where very happy, and healthy (and screechy). I wouldn't go so far as to say a fox *can't* make a good pet, but it *won't* make a good pet for most people. There's a channel run by some folks who have a Fennec named Djinn, and they make no illusions as to just how much work he is. As another example: I watch a wolf-dog regularly. She's a good dog: big ol baby. I can stick my hand in her food while she's eating without fear of being bit (I wouldn't recommend the average person try that with ANY animal, though). She loves cats, any cat. She's calm and doesn't even chew on stuff, at least *when someone's there*... Otherwise? She'll eat a whole door (it's why I watch her, plus, she's nice to have around as I have none of my own). People don't realize just how much work an animal is, especially an animal without a history of being domesticated. Behavior wise, Tigil seems similar to some of the abused dogs my Mom saw in rescues, that part I could handle... But you can't really feed them kibble like you can a dog (and honestly, you could make a case not to feed dogs or cats kibble either). The vet bills have to be utterly hellacious (not to mention needing more care with the rabies vaccination since there's not fox-specific one, and they're asymptomatic carriers, so you REALLY want that), and this is assuming you can find a vet that'll even deal with him. There are exotic vets near me, but I think they're all limited to birds, sugar gliders and other such critters. You also really need an outdoor, dig-proof run as well, and constant interaction if you don't want them getting bored and destroying furniture if they're indoors, let alone training them (which is possible). He's adorable though. The arctics are my favorite purely for the giant ball of fluff they are. In the case of Arctic Foxes, having people who are qualified to care for them might provide a breeding stock that isn't subject to climate change, so there could be some benefit, but I don't think most folks (including myself) are equipped to have one.
I would say no, Red Foxes and Arctic Foxes can crossbreed, and they have different behaviour, in Nature they live in different habitats, even in areas they are both native in.
You are an angel and all of your patrons are Angel's 😊🥰❤ I would lobe to support you on Patreon! This is indeed a worthy cause! Thank you so much for dedicating your young life to helping animals, what an inspiration
I just wanna give props to Hank Green... thanks for making channels like this possible! You're right up there with Brady Haran on my fave list of YT producers!
I know a wild Fox is different from a feral cat, but many of the same issues you have had to deal with in Tigli's case, I have had with one of the feral born cats I trapped (and vetted, and now care for). Barkley took a looooong time to trust me, much longer than his sisters. He's now about 4 years old and has finally begun to seek out my (limited) attention. Yay! I later trapped, neutered, and released Barkley's Father who later returned and claimed me as his territory. Funny thing is Barkley saw his Father (Tommy) getting much love and attention and I believe that helped to convince him that I'm not so bad after all (besides providing food, water, and shelter). Any way, good on you for doing what you do!
Such a Beautiful Mind! Thank you for taking the lead in teaching those who don't understand that, unless they show a love for all life, Life will have no Love to show them in return......Reciprocity
It's hard to think about Cas not always being with us, but I am glad you were able to find Tigli and provide him with the best possible future! Who knows what could have happened to him! Wishing all of you all of the best! 💓
So did you end up having to buy Tigli from the person who was looking to sell him online, or did you do something else to convince them to surrender him to you?
It's so frustrating to me that Tigli was being sold as a pet. Thank you Jessi for your optimism and care. I trust that you'll be able to give him a comfortable and happy life. He's so lucky that you found him!
I’m an only child and grew up with the ability to be an animal whisperer. I wish there were something closer to me like what you have. I live in CT, and have never met an animal that I couldn’t befriend in minutes. I’ve always adopted rescue animals and I have always cared for the many stray animals or the usual wildlife, ie raccoons, skunks, and possums. My wild raccoon Rocky always eats from my hands, and thankfully isn’t comfortable around any other humans. I’ve been there for them since his grandfather adopted me, so he sees me as another raccoon more than a person.
OH I love the joy in this walk, I could watch hours of arctic fox prancing compilations. And even with a yard space, it's just not the same! I'd like to hear more about his introductions with Serafina and Cas, if it's possible. By the looks of it, they got to a good point of getting along pretty quickly, which is tremendous! What kind of environment was Tigli in previously? Did it have an impact?
Glad this fox was rescued from a potential life threatening situation of being raised and then discarded as he grew up. Do these people not have hearts? I couldn't imagine ever doing that to an animal.
I love arctic foxes their the most beautiful animals in the world and they would actually be a really good pet for me since I know what they will become in the future
I spy the thick protective gloves! Seriously don't blame you though. The potential chomp factor is real. He looks so happy and healthy, thanks for doing this for him 🙂 He is soooo lovely, my heart goes melt. I wonder why humans evolved into creatures that want to make other creatures into pets?
I wonder, in situations like this, is it possible to utilize the trust bonds you've formed with Serafina and Cas to help building the new one with Tigli? Specifically I'm thinking if Tigli gets to be social and comfortable ans social with the other foxes, would Tigli seeing Serafina and Cas trusting you and accepting your presence, touch, and treats direct him to become less averse to the same? I don't want to humanize Tigli's thought process too much and start drawing incorrect assumptions, but I would think that part of the benefit to being a social animal is being able to use others in your group to learn the relative risk of threats.
Yes, that's my thinking as well. I may not know all canids, but I know dogs, and they definitely observe and trust each other's feelings on new stimuli. Foxes are a little less social than our doggy friends, but they definitely have a distinct awareness of each other.
Haha, yes! I had such a good breakthrough session that day. He let me touch his back ❤ But then I had to take him to the vet and then had to start the trust building all over again.
It's a 30' leash. He's much fast than I am and I like being able to let the animals have their own space to change direction, stop, and go without me always being up in their business. The only challenge in having such a long lead is the hundreds of trees and debris it can get caught on. It actually takes all of my focus to take the foxes on a walk 😄
Does seeing your other foxes interact with you help you build that trust bond with him? I know that with dogs, training can be easier if one dog watches another to learn what to do.
Glad he got his forever home with you. Foxes are not dogs and so sad to hear that they are sold as such. Like you said - never ends well for the animal.
Tigli is absolutely beautiful,, So glad he will be given a great home with you and your family Jessi. Sorry to hear about Cas...so sad ...when animals and even people get old. Its part of life. I don't think wild animals should be sold on line either.
Wild animals obviously shouldn't be allowed to be kept or sold as pets. Your work with the wild canines however is amazing and commendable, thank you! On a slightly unrelated note: I'm genuinely surprised nobody has attempted the Russian domestication experiment with North American Red Foxes. As a breed of canine they're still wild animals however the old Russian experiment indicated that through selective breeding based on friendliness (it was much intesive than just that one metric obviously but for simplicity sake) towards humans; their silver foxes adopted several physiological & psychological traits found in modern dogs as they grow more "domesticated" over several generations. Your work with this White Fox is exceptional and while its not at all "domestication" since that process involves selective breeding I'm still surprised that more people haven't asked you about what you think about the work that must have gone into the ancient humans practice of taming and domesticating wolves. Just imagine...we learned to love and live with wolves long before we established the theories of genetics or psychology by simply living with and observing the creatures and TAKING THE TIME to understand them so they could also understand us. It wasn't without it's share of failures and setbacks and plenty of bites I'm sure but humans aren't all that much safer than wolves when it comes to trusting others in the first place... and at least wolves aren't as petty as humans. Love all your work with all your animals and just wanted to chime in with my random thoughts keep doing what you do, it proves humanity hasn't lost its heart! ❤
I used negative reinforcement with my cat. One day when she snuck outside when I didn't want her out there, she surprised me by rolling over into a submissive pose when I came to take her back in. I left her alone after she did this to reward her. After that, she kept doing it. What's more, one time, she came to me when I called her. I pet her for a bit, then let her stay out longer. I kept doing this and now she comes whenever I call her! A Cat! Coming when it's called!
Lovely video of this beautiful creature! I have two questions though, is introduction to the wild out of the question in his case? You emphasise how he remains a wild animal, while harbouring the hope of him finding a place amongst human(?) caregivers. Also, after taking him for his walks, how do you manage taking him back in? I supposes the negative reinforcement works well in a more controlled, less spacious environment, but Tigli likely prefers staying in the forest away from humans..
There's no chance of him being released into the wild. While he's still considered a wild animal because he's not a domesticated species, he didn't grow up learning how to do what he needs to do to survive form his parents. If we somehow got all the permits approved to get him to the appropriate habitat range in the Arctic (which could take years) he simply wouldn't survive. Getting him home from a walk is a really big challenge. He's even more uncomfortable with me being close in big open spaces. So I can't simply pick him up (he becomes incredibly defensive and would bite me if I pushed it). Instead I gently herd him back into the yard and close the gate, then herd him back inside and close the door, and then coax him back into his enclosure (which he enthusiastically goes to because it's his safe space). Once back in his enclosure I can carefully unlatch his harness and give him treats for being a good calm boy. At this point I always wear leather gloves because he does get scared when I touch his back to take the harness off and fox bites are quick and nothing to take lightly. He's getting calmer and calmer each time we practice it, and soon I won't need the gloves because we'll both trust each other enough.
@@animalwondersmontana Thank you for the explanation! This alone should make it clear to people that a pet fox is nothing compared to pet dogs, even the most scaredy ones. You must all be very patient people and the work you do is significant in many different ways
(1) Thanks for the explanation of negative reinforcement. In the specific example from this video, though, it seems like what Tigli is learning is "If I just put up with it a little while, eventually she'll take her hand away." The reinforcement item and the training item are the same. The reward is that he gets to stop doing the thing you're training him to do. That seems backwards to me somehow. (2) Sorry you feel so bad (per your Twitter). Maybe Taylor can do next week's episode? (3) Question: If Tigli heard a prey item under the snow and started to do that dive thing that foxes do, would you stop him? This is similar to the decision a cat owner has to make if the cat's outdoors and gets a bird (except sooner in the process). Or, since he's a wild animal, if he gets a chance to hunt, does he get to hunt?
Hi :) Here's what I have 1. He's definitely learning that all he has to do is chill for a sec while my hand is near and I'll take it away. But it doesn't end there. I slowly (over weeks or months) increase that one second into 2, 3, 10. And at the same time try to move closer to the point of actually touching him. Every time he chills I remove my hand. Right now they chill out moment isn't true relaxation, but it's closer to calm than trying to run away, growling, or biting and eventually the longer he tolerates me being close without turning to defensive behaviors the closer we get to him getting a bit bored and letting out a big sigh. Then we've made a hug breakthrough. It doesn't really matter what Tigli does after I remove my hand because it's his behavior while my hand is close that determines whether I remove my hand. If he doesn't chill at all, then I keep my hand close which isn't his favorite thing right now. Reinforcing for calm behavior is always tricky because often it's easy to use food as a reward during a training session, but giving an animal food usually makes them excited. The best reinforcement for calm behavior would be something like a slow body massage, but only if the animal finds that rewarding. 2. I was so healthy when I filmed this last week. I'm so jealous of past healthy Jessi! Taylor has been a life saver this week and hopefully next week I can talk again, but maybe Taylor will be up for taking on another episode soon :) 3. I probably wouldn't let Tigli prey on a wild mouse because they usually have parasites that I would then need to treat him for. He could also get bit and I don't know the health of the mouse, it could have a disease that could be life threatening to Tigli, or even just cause him pain or it could get infected. I'm all for natural enrichment, but taking unnecessary risks for a little bit of fun for Tigli isn't a responsible thing to do. And treating uncooperative animals is one of the worse things about my job. Can you imagine if he had to get ointment on his nose, or an antibiotic shot twice a day. It would ruin any trust we've been building having to catch him up and restrain him. It would be awful.
I love Cas so much, so sad, that he is aging so quickly. He is a sweet little grandpa❤
Can you make more artic fox shows
Tigli is so pretty with his white fur, and it’s great to hear that he already gets along with the other foxes. Tigli basically won the lottery when he landed with all of ya’ll at animal wonders, whether he knows it or not yet!😅
I wish we had stronger laws about selling wild animals as pets. There should be a very small list of animals that have been proven to be compatible as pets, with licensing and monitoring being required for anything outside of that list.
Yes. This is so important. I also think the breeding of specific breeds with intrinsic health issues should be highly regulated. Beating an animal with a stick until they are in chronic pain and debilitated for life is considered completely unacceptable, but breeding pain into animals (bracysephalic dogs, enigma geckos, halter quarter horses, etc) is completely accepted and legal. When we choose to have a pet we are responsible for their wellbeing and health, as well as the health of any offspring they produce. Foxes should not be pets. Aesthetics should not be prioritized over health. This seems so obvious to me, and I just don’t get why people are so adamant that there be no regulation.
I don't know if I agree 100% with the method here, however I do agree that there needs to be something done about selling wild animals. However, while some improvements to existing laws, and some new more strict laws can definitely be made, I don't know if stronger laws is the best overall answer. My first thought here is simply that how are you going to enforce those laws? I know first hand that they are incapable of strong enforcement of the laws that are already out there. I think the key is education. That should be the first step.
The problem we have here, and it's obvious from just the three posts here is that the method of taking care of the problem because VERY opinion based and very controversial as to whats going to be best and most effective. The only thing that is easy to agree on is that something definitely needs to be done.
I do agree with Tiny Valkyrie that aesthetics should not be prioritized over health. That's why when I get my standard poodle it's gotta have dew claws and a full length tail. On those dogs, once upon a time, the tail length was actually a work based thing and helped protect the animal in the line of work that they did. Nowadays it's pointless for all but looks in almost every situation. A lot of people will tell you that the dew claws are useless and can even cause problems. While it is possible for them to tear, it's very rare overall. However, the latest studies show that in dogs with attached dew claws, (attached to muscle that is attached through a series of tendons to bone, not just floating loosely or unattached) the claws are indeed used with great purpose including but not by any means limited to stability during high speed or sharp turns, climbing out of tricky situations, and so on. On the other hand, not having dew claws can lead to weakness in the leg and hip joints over a period of the dogs life due to twisting.
So anyway,
Walt R. Buck I completely agree with your statement that education comes first, and is always the best solution. Most people don’t know the risks of getting these animals until it’s too late, often because the breeders and sellers of these animals actively conceal it. This is compounded by the fact that people buy these critters on impulse.
I do disagree, however, with the opinion that other methods of enforcement are impractical. The best way to take a big chunk out of the distribution of these animals is by focusing on the shows and expos. For example, in the UK, cropped and docked dogs cannot be shown at kennel clubs, and that had a drastic impact, even in the pet trade. You rarely see dogs with docked tails or cropped ears (except for medical reasons) at all there. Similarly, spider ball pythons and enigma geckos cannot be sold at reptile expos in the UK. You can still purchase them legally privately, but their numbers have been drastically reduced, simply by enforcing the relatively small number of expos. That approach requires comparatively few resources and has a proportionally large impact. Additionally, it encourages the communities that sell these animals to self regulate, at least to a certain extent.
Granted, the trade of animal species that are clearly unsuitable as pets, such as foxes, is an entirely different issue, that I am much less knowledgeable about. That said, it is definitely true that there are a variety of levels of regulation between states. For example many more people own monkeys in Florida where it is legal, compared to other states where it is not. I’m not sure how regulation and distribution disruption works in that case however. I think the general argument that we shouldn’t have laws if we can’t enforce them completely is not a particularly useful one, but that is simply my opinion.
As a side note, standard poodles are wonderful dogs. I wish you the best of luck when you get yours!
@@Tinyvalkyrie410 I hadn't thought of expos. You're absolutely right.
bktrn not just wild animals, some people force breed animals to sell their pups at a very young age when they shouldn’t be separated from their mother
I'm going to miss Cas! I'm glad that Seraphina is not going to alone though
My son has developmental disabilities... He wanted me to let you know that he enjoyed your video on the artic fox very much. You make good videos. Thank you.
I am OVER THE MOON WITH EXCITEMENT RIGHT NOW. Look at him! What a good start to the day.
Wow! I'm so excited to see more of him and how his relationship with Jessie grows
I love foxes. They're so cute and fluffy it makes me wanna hug them!
What a handsome boy!! I'm glad he's found a good home, and I hope he settles in soon! ^-^
I love your demonstration of negative reinforcement. I work with horses, and almost all horse training is done this way. Apply a mildly uncomfortable stimulus to elicit a behavior, and immediately remove it when you get that behavior. Often classic positive reinforcement, especially with food, doesn’t work on horses, because in the wild they dont have to “work” for their food the same way a predator or scavenger does. Therefore the instinct of “got food because did good thing” is much weaker in them. Instead, you have to take advantage of their very strong understanding of social hierarchy and strong reactions to environmental stimulus. I find people run into trouble when they treat horses like dogs, or don’t understand how quickly you need to remove the negative stimulus once you get even a small desired reaction. Don’t get me wrong, I bribe my horses like crazy with treats, but that’s more a general way to make the experience of interacting with me a fun one for everyone involved, rather than a direct reward. They get treats regardless of how the session went.
I love that! Thanks for sharing Tiny!!
Huh... I didn't know that about horses, but it makes sense. Guess I learned something today
It works amazingly with horses. I adopted two mustangs, untouched other than vaccinations given in a pin chute, and had first touch within three days just by using pressure and release - negative reinforcement - with free movement available in a round pen. That means face them square on at the point of the shoulder, so they instinctively move forward to get away from your 'aggressive' focus. A horse's instinct to flee needs to be given room for expression, hence the round pen with no corners to get 'stuck' in and panic. As soon as they stop running away, turn around and walk away from them. No ropes, whips, or anything of that nature needed, no waving your hands or yelling at them, just using your body and gaze to focus on them directly. As soon as they realize that stopping earns a reward, it's a short step to them taking a step after you as you walk away, and before you know it they've practically taught themselves to lead before you ever put a halter on them. Make sure to 'touch' using social 'pleasure' stimuli, such as a scratch on the point just behind the withers, and it was just like a waterfall after that, with them following me around like overgrown puppies begging for scratches. The bay was adopted pretty young (but already well weaned, of course) the other was four, and the bay would only eat new food after she saw me eat it, just as a foal watches what its dam eats to see what's safe. Her favorite treats were cinnamon gummy bears and peppermint puffs.
@@Oxyacantha roundpen work is the cornerstone to any good horse/human relationship in my opinion. When I started riding, I rode hunters. All we were taught was to control a horse through intense discomfort; spurs, crops, leveraged bits, etc. It wasn’t until I got seriously injured that I started to question that approach. It took me over a year to recover enough to ride, and during that time, a wonderful local horsewoman took me under her wing and undid all the bad habits I developed in the Hunter ring. The first time I linked up with a horse during a round pen ground work session was a revelation to me. It was so quick, and it was so much kinder than what I had learned before. It still feels like magic to this day. In some ways I’m glad for the injury since it put me on the right path. Light pressure, and release. Works every time (almost).
Wow! I love watching a professional trainer discuss their work building trust.
Thank you for pointing out how negative reinforcement is different from punishment and how it can be used in training when positive reinforcement is unavailable or not possible.
Also Tigli is absolutely adorable. I loved seeing him run around outside. I hope he warms up to your presence soon so more people can see him be an ambassador.
Seeing him play outside made me wonder if the foxes would enjoy an enclosure with outdoor access, and what sorts of requirements they would have (they look like they could probably dig under a fence!)
Good question! I have a VERY long answer 😄 There's a few things to take into consideration for an outdoor space for the foxes and most of them have held us back from going forward with it.
First is cost: it cost about $17k to build an outdoor yard for Huckleberry the beaver (not including the foundation work which is super pricey!). I'm guessing it would be about the same for a fox yard. This is because it's not like building a fence for your pet dog, it would need to be built to USDA regulations including a secondary 6' perimeter fence. Foxes can dig and they can climb so it would have to be very secure fencing materials including a fenced ceiling that could also hold up to our Montana winters for then next 10 years minimum.
Second is rabies: while all the foxes get their vaccinations annually, there is no guarantee that the canine or feline rabies vaccine is 100% effective according to federal regulations. And since we take the foxes off-site for public presentations and have multiple employees feed and clean them, the risk of someone getting nipped and then us having to euthanize the fox to test if they had rabies is too much. Don't get me wrong, the chance of this actually happening is low, but even so, it's too high for us. If we can guarantee that there has been no access to any potentially infected wildlife, we can protect the foxes better than if they had an outdoor space where something like a rabid bat got some of their fluids in the foxes water or a rabid skunk sprayed them or got pulled through the bars. It's happened at other facilities and from the beginning we chose to avoid the risk by keeping the foxes in a roofed and solid walled "outdoor" space with a dirt floor (fence barrier 4' under the dirt so they can't dig out) and triple protected window open to the outside air.
Third is space: the way the current fox enclosure is constructed and where it's located, we couldn't easily just put a yard onto the back of it. We'd really have to start fresh and build a whole new building with a yard attached to the back. Since Montana winters are so intense, we can't just slap a structure together or it would cave in with the snow load. Overall the project would just be too costly.
Can you tell I've thought long and hard about this?
That's so interesting! I figured that cost would be a major factor because building anything is generally expensive (and if the winter in Montana is anything like in Minnesota that's another challenge for sure), but I had no idea about rabies! That makes me wonder about outdoor/feral cats in my area, since there's apparently quite a few rabid bats near me 🤔 Thankfully I don't think many people let their cats roam since it's a city and there's a fair bit of traffic.
@@animalwondersmontana I *can* tell that you've thought long and hard about this, and your love, care, and dedication to "your" animals truly shows.
You're doing some great and important work here.
@@animalwondersmontana jessi I hope I spelled it correctly I love all animals and I also love you're animals I'm so sorry for cas and all you're animal's that get sick and do you have a dog because there are lots of dogs in my country
I am enchanted with your channel. I love how you educate the public with animal facts and conservation. Thank you AnimalWonders 💕
I love that you adopted a friend for Seraphina. The fact that was saved from an uncertain future as "pet" means he needed you guys as much as Seraphina will need him. I love Cas, and his bond with Seraphina. I was worried her heart would break when the time comes for Cass to cross the bridge. Now she has someone to help her pick up the pieces when it does.
Those animals look healthier than I imagined and they seem happy in their disposition great job.
What a beautiful boy! I'm so glad you've been able to introduce a new fox successfully and that seraphina will continue to have strange white companions for years to come! I had been worried since the last few videos where cas has shown his age about how she would manage her lifelong companion's shorter lifespan, so glad to see how clearly you've been thinking about the future too!
How did I forget to hit the subscribe button!? I remember this channel! (found it again from Eons).
Foxes are fascinating creatures. They're smart, way smarter then most of the dogs I've had or known, and that means they do take to human contact more readily then other wild creatures. I've lived near a vixen that was quite comfortable with my presence outside (she lived in my back yard). to the extent that I'd be in one patio chair and she'd sit in the other if I didn't move too much. I didn't feed her or name her because that's unethical. But the idea was tempting. She was better at catching the field mice then the cat. I loved that cat but she was *useless*. And I've met Fennecs that where very happy, and healthy (and screechy). I wouldn't go so far as to say a fox *can't* make a good pet, but it *won't* make a good pet for most people. There's a channel run by some folks who have a Fennec named Djinn, and they make no illusions as to just how much work he is.
As another example: I watch a wolf-dog regularly. She's a good dog: big ol baby. I can stick my hand in her food while she's eating without fear of being bit (I wouldn't recommend the average person try that with ANY animal, though). She loves cats, any cat. She's calm and doesn't even chew on stuff, at least *when someone's there*... Otherwise? She'll eat a whole door (it's why I watch her, plus, she's nice to have around as I have none of my own).
People don't realize just how much work an animal is, especially an animal without a history of being domesticated. Behavior wise, Tigil seems similar to some of the abused dogs my Mom saw in rescues, that part I could handle... But you can't really feed them kibble like you can a dog (and honestly, you could make a case not to feed dogs or cats kibble either). The vet bills have to be utterly hellacious (not to mention needing more care with the rabies vaccination since there's not fox-specific one, and they're asymptomatic carriers, so you REALLY want that), and this is assuming you can find a vet that'll even deal with him. There are exotic vets near me, but I think they're all limited to birds, sugar gliders and other such critters. You also really need an outdoor, dig-proof run as well, and constant interaction if you don't want them getting bored and destroying furniture if they're indoors, let alone training them (which is possible).
He's adorable though. The arctics are my favorite purely for the giant ball of fluff they are. In the case of Arctic Foxes, having people who are qualified to care for them might provide a breeding stock that isn't subject to climate change, so there could be some benefit, but I don't think most folks (including myself) are equipped to have one.
Good for you Jessi! I really love animal rescues.
Do foxes learn from their peers as well? Will Cas and Seraphina be "ambassador" for you to Tigli when he sees them being fine with you?
I'm wondering this too
They do, not as much as more social creatures, but they do, particularly the younger ones.
I would say no, Red Foxes and Arctic Foxes can crossbreed, and they have different behaviour, in Nature they live in different habitats, even in areas they are both native in.
You are an angel and all of your patrons are Angel's 😊🥰❤
I would lobe to support you on Patreon! This is indeed a worthy cause!
Thank you so much for dedicating your young life to helping animals, what an inspiration
I just wanna give props to Hank Green... thanks for making channels like this possible!
You're right up there with Brady Haran on my fave list of YT producers!
I can’t wait for the day this wonderful content is on the trending page. Someone who really deserves it. PBS Eons too!
it's so sweet to see just how much he loves exploring outside
I know a wild Fox is different from a feral cat, but many of the same issues you have had to deal with in Tigli's case, I have had with one of the feral born cats I trapped (and vetted, and now care for). Barkley took a looooong time to trust me, much longer than his sisters. He's now about 4 years old and has finally begun to seek out my (limited) attention. Yay!
I later trapped, neutered, and released Barkley's Father who later returned and claimed me as his territory.
Funny thing is Barkley saw his Father (Tommy) getting much love and attention and I believe that helped to convince him that I'm not so bad after all (besides providing food, water, and shelter).
Any way, good on you for doing what you do!
He is a beautiful fox.
Such a Beautiful Mind! Thank you for taking the lead in teaching those who don't understand that, unless they show a love for all life, Life will have no Love to show them in return......Reciprocity
It's hard to think about Cas not always being with us, but I am glad you were able to find Tigli and provide him with the best possible future! Who knows what could have happened to him! Wishing all of you all of the best! 💓
So did you end up having to buy Tigli from the person who was looking to sell him online, or did you do something else to convince them to surrender him to you?
It sounds like the owners wanted to get rid of him.
@@whychoooseausername4763 Why did they have fox as a pet...? What is wrong with mans best friend? Or mans best 'I'm a Queen' the cat?
He's so fluffy the thumbnail makes him look like a Samoyed. I know I spelled that wrong. Samoad? Samoe? Sasasusanmo?
nope you were right first time!
Clearly sasasusanmo is the correct spelling. In fact it is the correct spelling for every word in the English dictionary.
@@Tinyvalkyrie410 indeed!
@@Tinyvalkyrie410 no its obviously smyoaoyoaymymayamoyamed
Victor Gamer16 while you are technically correct, the shortened form has become so widely used to be considered generally acceptable.
I am glad EONS recommended you. Looks like a great site made by a great person. Looking forward to your videos. Very inspiring.
These people are wonderful; what they do is so awesome.. What they do is so awesome!
Really appreciate the work you do Jessie & love the channel. Will definitely support through Patreon
It's so frustrating to me that Tigli was being sold as a pet. Thank you Jessi for your optimism and care. I trust that you'll be able to give him a comfortable and happy life. He's so lucky that you found him!
He's so chonky and floofy~
I'm very confident in your ability to make this transition work. You and your team are awesome. Thanks for the video.
Just found you. Love what you do for all the babies and sharing it with us:) Thank you
You're fucking amazing. So are your animals. So is Montana, the greatest place on Earth.
Good lord, hes a precious bean.
Y e s.
such a happy fox walking in the snow
One of my favorite videos 💗 it sure was pretty playing n the snow!
I'm so happy for little Tigli! He landed in the best home possible with you and Seraphina, and I can't wait to see how he does on his journey :)
Hehehe. What a dream life, taking an Artic Fox for a walk.❤
Awww Tigli is sooo cute 😍
I’m an only child and grew up with the ability to be an animal whisperer.
I wish there were something closer to me like what you have. I live in CT, and have never met an animal that I couldn’t befriend in minutes.
I’ve always adopted rescue animals and I have always cared for the many stray animals or the usual wildlife, ie raccoons, skunks, and possums. My wild raccoon Rocky always eats from my hands, and thankfully isn’t comfortable around any other humans. I’ve been there for them since his grandfather adopted me, so he sees me as another raccoon more than a person.
Omg I am so happy, Cas is my favorite animal at Animal Wonders and I was so sad when he was getting old and so sick. Now I am happy and sad. 😂
So glad you found him and rescued him, and I hope he's settled down well now!
How cute is he, omg!
OH I love the joy in this walk, I could watch hours of arctic fox prancing compilations. And even with a yard space, it's just not the same!
I'd like to hear more about his introductions with Serafina and Cas, if it's possible. By the looks of it, they got to a good point of getting along pretty quickly, which is tremendous! What kind of environment was Tigli in previously? Did it have an impact?
Lmaaooo I love the bank/finance reference you did with the "trust bond" XD
You have no idea how impossible it would be for me to not hug and kiss this beautiful boy.
Glad you rescued him!
Thanks for such a beautiful video Jessi and of course as always thanks for your passion :)
Pretty Tigli! I'm sure he'll come to trust you. He'll be very happy living there with other foxes💕🐺🦊💕
Tigli doesn't know it yet, but he's a very lucky boy!
He's very cute! Glad you can provide him a good home
What a happy foxy baby.
Glad this fox was rescued from a potential life threatening situation of being raised and then discarded as he grew up. Do these people not have hearts? I couldn't imagine ever doing that to an animal.
What a pretty animal.
I love the way you treat animals
I have a theory searche video "you are 2". Half of the brain/one eye is same nature. !!!!!
He is so cute!! I want to hug him all day all night!!!!
He looks happy already :) Im glad Cas is still hanging on!
Tigli is adorable and soft
I love arctic foxes their the most beautiful animals in the world and they would actually be a really good pet for me since I know what they will become in the future
I spy the thick protective gloves! Seriously don't blame you though. The potential chomp factor is real.
He looks so happy and healthy, thanks for doing this for him 🙂 He is soooo lovely, my heart goes melt. I wonder why humans evolved into creatures that want to make other creatures into pets?
I wonder, in situations like this, is it possible to utilize the trust bonds you've formed with Serafina and Cas to help building the new one with Tigli? Specifically I'm thinking if Tigli gets to be social and comfortable ans social with the other foxes, would Tigli seeing Serafina and Cas trusting you and accepting your presence, touch, and treats direct him to become less averse to the same?
I don't want to humanize Tigli's thought process too much and start drawing incorrect assumptions, but I would think that part of the benefit to being a social animal is being able to use others in your group to learn the relative risk of threats.
Yes, that's my thinking as well. I may not know all canids, but I know dogs, and they definitely observe and trust each other's feelings on new stimuli. Foxes are a little less social than our doggy friends, but they definitely have a distinct awareness of each other.
So beautiful
As soon as I saw the title I was like "oh this is who you were talking about using negative reinforcement with on twitter." 😄
Haha, yes! I had such a good breakthrough session that day. He let me touch his back ❤ But then I had to take him to the vet and then had to start the trust building all over again.
I’ve never been so early before! Love you animal wonders!!!! 🖤
How long is the lead when you walk him? I can imagine trying to keep up with him to prevent yanking would be difficult
It's a 30' leash. He's much fast than I am and I like being able to let the animals have their own space to change direction, stop, and go without me always being up in their business. The only challenge in having such a long lead is the hundreds of trees and debris it can get caught on. It actually takes all of my focus to take the foxes on a walk 😄
Wonderful video really learned a lot about Arctic foxes ❤
What a beautiful little poof ball 😍😇
Is it weird that I want an Arctic Fox stuffed toy? They’re SO cute!
Same!
He will come around with patience.
Does seeing your other foxes interact with you help you build that trust bond with him? I know that with dogs, training can be easier if one dog watches another to learn what to do.
well done. as usual. great approach.
Glad he got his forever home with you. Foxes are not dogs and so sad to hear that they are sold as such. Like you said - never ends well for the animal.
You can do it!!!
Wow, very informative, great video!
Tigli is absolutely beautiful,, So glad he will be given a great home with you and your family Jessi. Sorry to hear about Cas...so sad ...when animals and even people get old. Its part of life. I don't think wild animals should be sold on line either.
I just found your channel. It's an interesting one so I subscribed.
He is so cute :)
I would love regular updates on him!
You are patience incarnate.
I love cas and tigli
cute. both of them.
I LOVE FOXES
Tigli is shaped like a friend
5:26 haha, run Jessi Run!
Really neat channel. Eons sent me.
Wild animals obviously shouldn't be allowed to be kept or sold as pets. Your work with the wild canines however is amazing and commendable, thank you!
On a slightly unrelated note: I'm genuinely surprised nobody has attempted the Russian domestication experiment with North American Red Foxes.
As a breed of canine they're still wild animals however the old Russian experiment indicated that through selective breeding based on friendliness (it was much intesive than just that one metric obviously but for simplicity sake) towards humans; their silver foxes adopted several physiological & psychological traits found in modern dogs as they grow more "domesticated" over several generations.
Your work with this White Fox is exceptional and while its not at all "domestication" since that process involves selective breeding I'm still surprised that more people haven't asked you about what you think about the work that must have gone into the ancient humans practice of taming and domesticating wolves.
Just imagine...we learned to love and live with wolves long before we established the theories of genetics or psychology by simply living with and observing the creatures and TAKING THE TIME to understand them so they could also understand us.
It wasn't without it's share of failures and setbacks and plenty of bites I'm sure but humans aren't all that much safer than wolves when it comes to trusting others in the first place... and at least wolves aren't as petty as humans.
Love all your work with all your animals and just wanted to chime in with my random thoughts keep doing what you do, it proves humanity hasn't lost its heart! ❤
What a cutie!
I used negative reinforcement with my cat.
One day when she snuck outside when I didn't want her out there, she surprised me by rolling over into a submissive pose when I came to take her back in. I left her alone after she did this to reward her. After that, she kept doing it. What's more, one time, she came to me when I called her. I pet her for a bit, then let her stay out longer. I kept doing this and now she comes whenever I call her! A Cat! Coming when it's called!
i havent gotten a notification from you guys in forever... i guess ill just have to look here often.
Can we get an update video for tigli in march?
Lovely video of this beautiful creature!
I have two questions though, is introduction to the wild out of the question in his case? You emphasise how he remains a wild animal, while harbouring the hope of him finding a place amongst human(?) caregivers.
Also, after taking him for his walks, how do you manage taking him back in? I supposes the negative reinforcement works well in a more controlled, less spacious environment, but Tigli likely prefers staying in the forest away from humans..
There's no chance of him being released into the wild. While he's still considered a wild animal because he's not a domesticated species, he didn't grow up learning how to do what he needs to do to survive form his parents. If we somehow got all the permits approved to get him to the appropriate habitat range in the Arctic (which could take years) he simply wouldn't survive.
Getting him home from a walk is a really big challenge. He's even more uncomfortable with me being close in big open spaces. So I can't simply pick him up (he becomes incredibly defensive and would bite me if I pushed it). Instead I gently herd him back into the yard and close the gate, then herd him back inside and close the door, and then coax him back into his enclosure (which he enthusiastically goes to because it's his safe space). Once back in his enclosure I can carefully unlatch his harness and give him treats for being a good calm boy. At this point I always wear leather gloves because he does get scared when I touch his back to take the harness off and fox bites are quick and nothing to take lightly. He's getting calmer and calmer each time we practice it, and soon I won't need the gloves because we'll both trust each other enough.
@@animalwondersmontana Thank you for the explanation! This alone should make it clear to people that a pet fox is nothing compared to pet dogs, even the most scaredy ones. You must all be very patient people and the work you do is significant in many different ways
I love this Chanel
Tigli the floofy snow pupper
(1) Thanks for the explanation of negative reinforcement. In the specific example from this video, though, it seems like what Tigli is learning is "If I just put up with it a little while, eventually she'll take her hand away." The reinforcement item and the training item are the same. The reward is that he gets to stop doing the thing you're training him to do. That seems backwards to me somehow. (2) Sorry you feel so bad (per your Twitter). Maybe Taylor can do next week's episode? (3) Question: If Tigli heard a prey item under the snow and started to do that dive thing that foxes do, would you stop him? This is similar to the decision a cat owner has to make if the cat's outdoors and gets a bird (except sooner in the process). Or, since he's a wild animal, if he gets a chance to hunt, does he get to hunt?
Hi :) Here's what I have
1. He's definitely learning that all he has to do is chill for a sec while my hand is near and I'll take it away. But it doesn't end there. I slowly (over weeks or months) increase that one second into 2, 3, 10. And at the same time try to move closer to the point of actually touching him. Every time he chills I remove my hand. Right now they chill out moment isn't true relaxation, but it's closer to calm than trying to run away, growling, or biting and eventually the longer he tolerates me being close without turning to defensive behaviors the closer we get to him getting a bit bored and letting out a big sigh. Then we've made a hug breakthrough. It doesn't really matter what Tigli does after I remove my hand because it's his behavior while my hand is close that determines whether I remove my hand. If he doesn't chill at all, then I keep my hand close which isn't his favorite thing right now. Reinforcing for calm behavior is always tricky because often it's easy to use food as a reward during a training session, but giving an animal food usually makes them excited. The best reinforcement for calm behavior would be something like a slow body massage, but only if the animal finds that rewarding.
2. I was so healthy when I filmed this last week. I'm so jealous of past healthy Jessi! Taylor has been a life saver this week and hopefully next week I can talk again, but maybe Taylor will be up for taking on another episode soon :)
3. I probably wouldn't let Tigli prey on a wild mouse because they usually have parasites that I would then need to treat him for. He could also get bit and I don't know the health of the mouse, it could have a disease that could be life threatening to Tigli, or even just cause him pain or it could get infected. I'm all for natural enrichment, but taking unnecessary risks for a little bit of fun for Tigli isn't a responsible thing to do. And treating uncooperative animals is one of the worse things about my job. Can you imagine if he had to get ointment on his nose, or an antibiotic shot twice a day. It would ruin any trust we've been building having to catch him up and restrain him. It would be awful.
Arctic fox, it’s a setup! -Mike Birbiglia