FOSS Software and Linux are Well Designed Actually (Response to Eric Murphy)
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The argument that "Popular OSS is not horribly designed therefore all open-source software isn't either" is not a counter argument. LibreOffice and Gnome ARE popular BECAUSE they are well designed and worth adopting. Linux enthusiasts need to accept that while yes, FOSS is great, most of it is bad from UX/UI standpoint, and yes, it's because the devs of the software have a way of doing things and refuse to let it go. Gnome, LibreOffice, Firefox, etc. all have companies and foundations behind them, Firefox even partnered for their redesign with some design company.
The "Windows is poorly designed because the settings app is a mess" point also stands for Linux, a user won't know if a setting they need is exposed to the UI, is tweaked using a CLI application or throught a config file in some directory. Windows at least has a UI for most of it's settings. (at worst, it's in the Group Policy editor). And let's not get into the different Linux UI frameworks and how out of place a Gnome app looks on a KDE desktop.
Lastly, "Free software is free so you shouldn't criticize it" is just wrong. Eric Murphy isn't criticizing the software because he hates it, but probably because he loves it and wants it to improve. (Just watch more of his videos, or even that very video you mentioned, none of his arguments are out of malice) If as a developer, any criticism you receive and think of it as an attack, than your software will stagnate, because someone better will come along who listen to user's needs, eg. GIMP vs Krita. If Linux enthusiasts don't recognize this, Linux will never improve in any meaningful way.
MX Linux (and AntiX to an extent) fixes the lack of a standardized Linux "control panel" with natively built system management tools by the MX devs. The tools are so good and the distro's stability so great that it's relegated most other distros obsolete to me or for more niche uses.
Yep, this vid has insane levels of copium. As a former linux user, I always end up back in Windows, simply because everything just works. I still use some popular FOSS like VLC and OBS, but these are exceptions and not the rule.
@@adamSnyper Except Windows 10/11 doesn't "just work".
@@adamSnyperFORMER Linux user? Didn't know that was a thing.
Personally, I think more open source software developers should just forget having a UI altogether and be command line based. And if the software is actually good, then it will get popular enough that somebody makes a decent GUI for it.
I think another problem is we're always thinking of Free Software as an alternative to proprietary software. While this is useful for describing what these programs are like for people who aren't very tech-savvy, it's not helpful to think of these as simply "alternatives" because it suggests Free Software is only worth considering when proprietary solutions aren't an option.
Also, it misleads people into thinking FOSS tools function exactly the same as proprietary ones. Even in circumstances where they do function exactly the same, simply being FOSS isn't enough of a reason to switch programs because most ordinary people do not care about FOSS, so there needs to be a unique selling point with the program itself.
Honestly? I think being free of cost is enough of a selling point on it's own
@@linuxlounge It is, but for most ordinary people, that alone isn't enough because most people are used to paying monthly for suites like Adobe Creative Cloud and Microsoft 365. The money they make from using the software likely far exceeds the money they spend on the software, and unlike you and me, most people don't care about software freedom.
However, I think there are cases where FOSS beats the competition. OBS is basically the standard for screen recording and live streaming, not because it's FOSS or doesn't cost money, but because it's a genuinely good piece of software. Most other free screen recorders (at least the proprietary ones) have arbitrary time limits and watermarks. People even choose OBS over paid tools like XSplit.
It's mostly just GNOME apps that are well designed. At the very core of Linux, it's still all 90's styling and hobbyist programming of programs (a.k.a no expertise of designing programs, just the love of making programs itself). Because Linux is mainly a community-driven landscape where everyone is pretty much on their own, I don't see the entirety of the Linux ecosystem to have just one unified design of all apps, unlike how Windows and Mac does which made it incredibly popular. The two OSes are also backed with actual people that knows how to design things. If we want Linux to even have a chance, people that are serious about designing UX-friendly UI is necessary and not just some hobbyists that just make programs just for the sake of it and nothing else. GNOME and KDE has already started it.
I agree with the sentiment. But not with reasoning. Almost all linux desktop applications is poorly designed. Gnome is a outlier. As a avid linux advocate i think we need to face this truth.
Gnome is quite literally the one that messes up apps for everyone else. Atleast, from a technical standpoint. This lack of compatibility with other software holds back gnome and its development
Kde app suite is better by miles.
@@RenderingUserthe client side decorations on Wayland being a shining example
Hmmmm is it gnome or Ubuntu though I forget
@@RenderingUser i would agree. But from a UI/UX perspective Gnome is better.
@@falconeagle3655 that much is also debatable. ive found it easier to navigate kde apps most of the time. gnome apps have some weird behavior
ive found behavior more consistent in kde apps than in gnome apps.
Honestly, windows 10 and 11 were my reason to switch to debian. The need to go into the legacy mishmash if I want to do something simple...
Debian with gnome feels far faster, intuitive, and (dare I say) modern.
Now upgrade to MX Linux! :D It's Debian Stable based so no worries there.
Well I think it depends. I’m using. KDE and some of their new apps are quite beautiful but others do feel less than intuitive. I do believe FOSS often makes sense if your an experienced user but can be less than intuitive to new users. But than again, the same can be said for proprietary software as well.
There are only so many ways you can make a photo editing software intuitive.
Imo a lot of unintuitiveness of kde apps have been fixed over the years. It's pretty great now. Only the occasional forgotten about niche menu has weird stuff. Same can probably be said for stuff like Windows. Like.... On kde plasma settings, I remember when I saw a menu where I had to select keyboard shortcut from a drop down list of every key combination possible 💀
@@RenderingUser I’ll take KDE apps over certain crappy proprietary windows software everyday 🤣
Some companies often make hard to sue software just so they can sell you training courses 🤣
@@Bhethar hard to sue
I love linux, but no amount of "this is the better workflow" will fix the problems in Linux software. When I want to be productive, this is the best way is less important than it just works.
"this is the best way is less important than it just works" - that's just an opinion and not related to foss/proprietary programs at all, that's a habit. If you've been using photoshop for all your life, of course gimp or any other photoeditting software will be alien to you, the same way as if you'd use gimp for all your life all other software is gonna be alien and will not be "it just works" solution. This is why many professionals are stuck with software that they started their careers with.
@@RueGoGprecisely. "it just works" is a statement that comes from habit. For instance, people that have used terminal their whole life will feel like they have 0 control in chromeos or mac or windows for example. And nothing they do works properly. I say this as someone who got super used to Linux over the past 5 years and had to suddenly use windows for uni. So much of my workflow was broken. And everything takes longer than it needs to.
@@RueGoGit’s not just about familiarity. A lot of times I had to come back to windows even after making Linux as my main OS just because I need to do something and I cannot do that in Linux. Applying for my study permit? Nope, you cannot open this pdf that requires Adobe Acrobat. After so many hurdles managed to run droidcam with iPhone, an update later, no longer works. Had to buy an webcam. Want some fancy webcam or devices, cannot natively support. Want to scan? Is this specific app that is complicated.
Only thing Linux was way better for is development, in most cases.
@@RueGoG I use PhotoPea online, it has better UI than Gimp for normal works and you don't even need to install anything. Heard it was a single dev app. I don't know why being opensource, Gimp can't be as easy as that. If something works, make it in a way that people usually do it, or have easy to toggle options. Blender and other softwares have this option so it makes switching easier.
interesting you make this video I was actually thinking the same these FOSS are actually doing some good stuff. Like for example audacity is working with INTEL and META, and they already have translation, TTS, bunch of AI audio processing, real time even.
"GIMP with one of the worst names I've ever heard"
But you have heard of it... :)
As to Krita, that's more built out for vector-based image editing even though it can do standard raster image editing as well. The reason why GIMP is so behind is because it's going through a MASSIVE rewrite with (as the devs say anyway) little help. Once 3.0 finally hits, they'll be able to move much more quickly to improve the editor's more long-standing issues. The good news is that 3.0 should be hitting very soon.
Gnome is well designed because there is a big company behind it. Elementary os is well designed BUT I would not recommend it to serious works as it never is stable enough
What about the up and coming cosmic?
@@RenderingUser cosmic is in early stages and also has a company behind it
Please, please, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP COMPARING GIMP WITH KRITA! GIMP is a general purpose image editing application whereas Krita is a digital painting application. While there is some overlap in functionality between both applications, they're intended to be used for two different use cases. I understand the desire to present Krita as an alternative for GIMP - and it is true that both can cover each other in some some really simple use cases - but it really is a disservice to the argument of UX usability if you are comparing two different things! It is like comparing Autodesk Sketchbook with Adobe Photoshop and then declaring the former as unusable or something because it lacks Smart Objects or some such and completely ignoring the fact that it was never intended to have that feature in the first place because it is a painting application.
how about inkscape. I'm doing T-shirt designs, want to implement more AI too .
@@nesdi6653 Inkscape is a vector drawing program and despite Krita having limited vector capabilities, cannot be directly compared either.
While I agree that comparing them in terms in use cases is silly, a point stands that Krita is a really well-designed digital art software that's praised by professional artists for being intuitive and polished, while GIMP still offers a piss-poor UX job and is often avoided by its own target audience.
Absolutely right! FOSS or not is not an indicator of good or bad design at all. But at a certain (medium) size, age and/or popularity, it's less likely to be well-designed because it's just a very tough job. GIMP is a great example for that: Lots of legacy that has to be supported, no commercial funding afaik, and it's so big that changes involve a lot of communication and teamwork. Things can turn for the better, see Blender, or more recently MuseScore, which really disrupt the market. And also small projects are often designed very well. It's just easier to follow a clear vision and keep track of stuff then.
This whole discussion is bullshit.
Free source is a development paradigm, has absolutely nothing to do with how good the Software is.
You make good and mostly true points in your Video, thanks for that
As a long time Adobe Software user, I think you used to be able make the argument that Photoshop was better designed than GIMP. However, that's changed a lot, both in terms of improvements in GIMP, and degradation in Adobe's offering. For example, it takes about 10 seconds to install GIMP, and about an hour to install Photoshop. That's IF your install of Creative Cloud works well, because it's required to install Photoshop now. Combine that with the requirement to use Windows or MacOS, and that's a lot of bad software overhead, nevermind the monthly subscription fee, or Adobe's recent attempts to claim license over everything you make in the software (as a career designer, this makes Adobe software unusable for anyone who signs NDAs). Problems with GIMP mainly boil down to skills issues. Not that it's perfect, but still the best general purpose photo-editing tool out there.
Well spoken! i feel like the original video fell prey to a number of problems: 1) the inertia of training on unfamiliar software and breaking of comfort boundaries, 2) a subconscious higher valuation of paid proprietary software over free FOSS software, and 3) adoption of old, bad narratives from the early days of Linux. Most folks who've bough into one or more of those narrative constructs tend to miss the opportunity for valid criticisms of *nixie software, opting instead to continue rehashing old sensationalist memes and farming spite click-throughs.
Best part of Linux is it gives you total control for the look and feel. It might take a while to tweak it just right but when it gets going it's incredible. I've fully switched to Linux Mint and barely even use Windows aside from editing videos and legacy programs that WINE doesn't play nice with.
Finally someone put that guy on his place.