Limiting the power doesn’t do anything, they can still get force 1’s for power. The issue with Kat is that she toolboxes 5 from deck, she can get PG’s, Honolys, Enlargulv can get heals or ladder, etc.
@@dylan-Z-anson They have to reride to get that then beyond the initial history stride, versus being able to just history into two force 2 markers and make it a 3 hit game instead of 6 due to Cycloned's presence. Leaving Katrina still allows Neos to do "something", compared to outright killing the entire clan.
this right here isn't even why the deck is good lol..... this isn't v1 katrina where you just turn cards to the side and attack a bunch.... this one is using the card to get things like pgs.... or dropping multiple honoly on the field to make other decks that spam attacks pay cb3+ to get to attack or just draw cards.....
I have to hard disagree with the post's points about only choice restricting the crest bearers. Those cards should NEVER have made it into this format and will only make the format worse with every release (and now we have an Accel clan with a crest bearer that can flip G units very efficiently). It's not "too harsh" to ban out cards that give insane scaling power for no cost in a format that can reliably put 3 G units/Guardians face up every cycle of turns (or more like in Harri's case). There is no counter argument; ban the D series crest bearers
I do agree that it kills Neos, but that isn't a reason not to hit it. Would you give Aqua force back Odysseus? I sure wouldn't and Aqua is beyond dead atm. Should Harri be allowed to keep his crest? He's done nothing pre-crest. If there's a problem it should be dealt with and using 'it kills my deck' as an excuse only adds to the degeneracy of the format.
@drigon100 keep it at 2 at least. Or else what i said. Nobody will play Neo Nectar anymore. We can all agree that Musketeers just dont do enough. And besides that , there are no good Neo Nectar strides that can be used. When like 80% is based of bloom/same name. For example ikichima and that one g3(forgot the name) should not be allowed to be used together. Imo crest shouldnt even be a thing in premium. For Shiranui. I think i would have banned that stride that cuts your hand to 4.
@ As I said above, that's not a justifiable argument for not touching a problem though, otherwise you might as well not have a ban list at all. IMO you don't actually have to limit Katrena anyway, just choice restrict it with Cycloned so it isn't as explosive. That way Neos have the flexibility of getting power or defence but they don't get both right away like they do now. It will also curb the amount of times they can justifiably go into Force 2 as the power decrease will more often that not encourage them to go into Force 1.
@@ninjaraccoon9914 The reason musketeers aren't seeing that much success is because people try to force the deck into being worse French Katrina, I promise you the deck is actually crazy if you run less token generators and more musketeers normal units that actually do stuff to further your gameplan
Banning pursuit (I made that original banlist) was because of future proofing. If every other single clan gets their main wincon nerfed in some way. Aqua Force (the clan I main btw) would certainly become a tier 1. Nerfing some of its power is not so much of a crazy idea. Pls dont kill me
@@TheLiamBris hmmm - I want to agree but I know the matches it almost auto losses too and just where the clan stands verses other more problematic clans - I feel it’s fine, I don’t main the deck but casually I used to play into it a lot. Maybe the issue is fenrir isn’t popular bc fenrir almost auto wins into that MU. The upside to AQF is I feel it doesn’t care about bugs but if bugs were banned I still don’t see the clan really being too much of an issue. I know some of the stuff is for future proofing but I feel a hit at a time or a few hits at a time would make more sense. There is also some underlining decks that haven’t even been shown off in the meta due to bugs that would cause more issues than AQF. Buuuuuuuut - I’ve only just now(two weeks ago basically) started heavily playing the format again so I could be entirely wrong 😂 (I played a lot before 2024)
So I while I do get the idea of hitting other things if you hit Gredora, I think letting other things run for a bit is a much smarter choice. Let the meta adjust itself to see what really is good when the unfair one is gone before you take other things. And agreed on the fact the entire format has been unable to play because of 1 card existing is awful, Gredora should have been banned ages ago. We need more V and P cards desperately to fill both formats out. I love where V is at with the tier 2 space being so wide, but some spice would be good.
I agree on the granblue ban bc of the early game advantage and I also agree on both Narukami and Gredora limit/ban. Though I must say that Kat to 1 would kill the deck fs so limiting Cyclone would be a better choice since he is the real big threat, as token have base power 30K with both kat and cycloned
I think Gyze and defensive decks need to be examined. They've been so ignored but they cause issues in tournament play. Well Gyze less so but it benefits a lot now from the environment and double protect, heavy g guard spam.
@OuterOrange yeah it's reminder that premium collection 2019 powercreep and gredora were what ended the gyze format. But once defense creeps up again then yikes, and there aremore ways to do it now
I love how I've been saying that crests should be hit for a while, AND NOW PEOPLE WANT TO TAKE IT SERIOUSLY?! I'm sick 🤢 Side Note: Do y'all want to hear my takes on that custom banlist? Cause I wouldn't mind if it wouldn't be redundant.
@@dragnoa.shadow I’ll be honest. I haven’t been playing P while these have been legal all too much. I’m sure I’d have spoken about it sooner if I actually was heavily playing. I am heavily playing now and I 100% don’t see a reason for them to stay. And lol sure go for it! Keep it civil 🙂
@@OuterOrange Some decks can't function without it. 1/4 crests have had actual meta relevance. 2/5 with Harri approaching and all it does to Nightrose is make it brick more. I understand the power scaling is obnoxious but something you aren't considering as well is how dull and dead the premium format actually becomes with the removal of crests and therefore after any crest coming. That legitimately takes away any significant changes Divinez adds to premium. Just my two sense though. I think hitting around them is far superior as it allows some decks to get some breathing room in the format, and maintain a somewhat sped up gameplay.
as a megacolony player I agree gredora is toxic but outside of her toxic effect the soul blast 1 call a grade 3 is so crucuial to make v and g cards work together in such a fun way. i want more cards that play like her 2nd effect with lighter control. hitting her to 1 is probs our only safe option without a backlog of bans with her. though if she gets banned i get to buy out the clan so i guess its fine.
i think just a new stride with something that doesnt do everything would be nice but gives access to some mulit attack or deck movement I definitely see why bugs needs it (the call from deck is very needed!)
Ban the crest. Certain restrictions need to be put into place on decks that are hard checked by certain other threats. Balancing out the game is going to be a little difficult. I cannot say what exactly to hit since I play standard but I at least have the experience of playing 7 other card games at a competitive level so I am used to the balancing part of things. Especially since I am a card designer.
Outright banning crests is based. I would be ok with banning loop cards even if the clan is super bad atm. Ladder I agree that is not a card that should be in premium (I think the "can't be put other than in R" given to the player is too much), I would be ok with it only working on one turn instead of two.
Yes... do the choice restrict so instead i can just do Darklord instead and get GB3 with my crest :^). I do feel they can remove Peryton off the 3 way choice restrict now especially if they do ban the crest
I'm under the assumption nothing will be touched I have been testing crest harri tho - and its pretty ridiculous LOL i can see perry coming off the list (under the assumption crests are banned)
Excuse me but Katrina in my opinion should be banned just like how it was before. The card makes such free value and just like Tony Stark once said "if you're nothing without the suit you shouldn't have it", just like Neo Nectar right now.
that's fair! I can understand that - I want the folks playing the clan to still be able to, the clan was mostly dead without kat - maybe a choice restriction with cyclone?
I'd say for bans the grade 1 units that give a specific crest when it rides on a specific Grade 0 that we get from the Stride decksets Maturity Talent, Salena is another prime card that needs to be banned as it gives Bermuda triangle either a GB2 On Turn 2 using lauris or a 4 Attack 2 Crit Pacifica swings, Triple drive and 3 or more cards to guard with for attacks Turn 2. Not to mention if Lyrical gets a stride deckset the amount of shenanigans that deck can do would be Gamebreaking
how does this card do anything for a crest deck when it 100% won't be riviere you would have to play 4 of the crest giver 4 of the g1 riviere 4 of the promo g2 and atleast 1 g2 riviere and pray you don't draw it when you do have to hit all of this wombo combo stuff to do anything....... to get that gb2 on turn 2 play with lauris you have to have a riviere g1 salena, lauris, another g3 to stride a card to go in soul for the cost of salena.... and you go first and you just getting 3 attacks with nobody giving you any damage to do any real play outside of tirua..... that's just a gimmick.....
@@rongill1234 I will say pacifica is a very cheesy gimmick but not the lauris line cause i literally play full riviere and its very nasty on its consistancy I also run 2 copies of Shandae in the deck as extenders to get lauris in hand while thinning the deck with the constant mermaid idol searches
@shirayukinobunaga9424 yes I play Riviere too and I started with lauris being in the deck hoping to high roll into striding on opponent while they on g1 and when testing if I did get the wombo AND go first people just didn't give me damage while they can still get drive checks off you because you are stronger and toss the trigger to a rg in the back... the you with lots of cards gone aren't doing some amazing sup stride turn you only getting 4 attacks if actually have bodies to put on field. If you play Riviere tirua how ever you still can supride and then do Riviere skill which still gives you 2 force markers you get to play good cards instead of the g2 promo and actually get to use a g3 worth a damn in tirua who's usable the entire game instead of being trash after the sup stride.... best thing I ever did was toss lauris in trash you should too
My issue with banning crest is that you retroactively are then banning all future crests. And if no one has noticed, crests are basically the ONLY impactful mechanic from Overdress / Divinez that we even get now.
we could just get premium product - like we used to. Crest isn't a good mechanic - overtime every clan will get one and I don't see a reason for this to be the future of p building
But it is, and the likelihood of us getting any good premium product vs better designed crests is very low. Those stride deck sets only gave us RFD as even a decent contender.
Cutire to 1? I only have 1 response. As a great youtuber once said - "I hate it here". Side Note: leave my Aqua Force alone, it has not heart enabler stride, no crest, no opponent turn interaction and no 'PG' GGuard. Who on earth is scared by anything in the Navy at this point?
@@drigon100 we can say that about Neo Nectar. No crest except for musketeer and musketeer is just not good enough to really compete, no guard restrict, no interaction with opponents board. It only has high numbers basically
@ You can't say that for Neos though. You have 2 of the 4 things I mentioned. Sandrine is a Heart Enabler & Rain Breath lets you call on the opponents turn, giving you opponent turn interaction with RGs (like Honoly) or triggering VG effects (like Ines).
@@drigon100Granblue and Great Nature do the same thing but better, do they need to be hit as well. Most decks can play on the opponent's turn there are cards that have no business being able to denial Griffin and retire Gaurds. Katrina is nice, I'd just touch Cycloned and that's it.
Calling salome stride crystaluster unfair is stupid in a format with gurguit , fenrier and alot of OTK decks also royal paladin may have a good stride but other clans like shadow have like better strides that chain recor or like other decks are way more unfair to call the combo unbalanced is just cruel like the guard restriction is like dose nothing on a high level compared to what other clans do also royal paladin has shit G guardian and kagero dont even have a stride anymore like reality how it solome stride crystaluster unfair
I wouldn't know how she played . I didn't know much Bermuda/vanguard outside of Melody until building Fortia in late 2022. Sounds like I'd enjoy the Riviere chaos, though
Yeah, honestly, after a lot of testing, the crest generators are a huge problem with the power scaling going forward and premium for certain decks
Shiranui is the only one that's a problem, and the correct hit is tsuk
Ikichima and that one g3 should not be allowed to be used together
They’re obviously strong, but I think that a lot of decks aren’t problems with it. Nobody is complaining about Crest Messiah, for example.
@@jacobjensen7704 i wouldn't be suprised if it was the bind effect that makes it not used.
@@ultimatezed8177that is legit the reason it is not used.
Just choice restrict Kat with Cycloned rather than limit or ban her. That way you can't scale power and have the ability to tank up simulataneously.
The Katrina deck would still be really powerful even without cycloned.
Limiting the power doesn’t do anything, they can still get force 1’s for power. The issue with Kat is that she toolboxes 5 from deck, she can get PG’s, Honolys, Enlargulv can get heals or ladder, etc.
@@dylan-Z-anson They have to reride to get that then beyond the initial history stride, versus being able to just history into two force 2 markers and make it a 3 hit game instead of 6 due to Cycloned's presence. Leaving Katrina still allows Neos to do "something", compared to outright killing the entire clan.
@@jacobjensen7704 The goal isn't to make Neos not powerful, it's to get it back to under some level of control while still allowing some output.
this right here isn't even why the deck is good lol..... this isn't v1 katrina where you just turn cards to the side and attack a bunch.... this one is using the card to get things like pgs.... or dropping multiple honoly on the field to make other decks that spam attacks pay cb3+ to get to attack or just draw cards.....
I have to hard disagree with the post's points about only choice restricting the crest bearers. Those cards should NEVER have made it into this format and will only make the format worse with every release (and now we have an Accel clan with a crest bearer that can flip G units very efficiently). It's not "too harsh" to ban out cards that give insane scaling power for no cost in a format that can reliably put 3 G units/Guardians face up every cycle of turns (or more like in Harri's case). There is no counter argument; ban the D series crest bearers
Lol messiah players crying in the void rn.
Limiting Katrina pretty much kills Neo Nectar. Nobody is gonna play it if it would be limited/banned.
I do agree that it kills Neos, but that isn't a reason not to hit it.
Would you give Aqua force back Odysseus? I sure wouldn't and Aqua is beyond dead atm.
Should Harri be allowed to keep his crest? He's done nothing pre-crest.
If there's a problem it should be dealt with and using 'it kills my deck' as an excuse only adds to the degeneracy of the format.
@drigon100 keep it at 2 at least. Or else what i said. Nobody will play Neo Nectar anymore. We can all agree that Musketeers just dont do enough. And besides that , there are no good Neo Nectar strides that can be used. When like 80% is based of bloom/same name.
For example ikichima and that one g3(forgot the name) should not be allowed to be used together.
Imo crest shouldnt even be a thing in premium.
For Shiranui. I think i would have banned that stride that cuts your hand to 4.
I think 2 is fair personally - but I don't think the card needs a restriction tbh with you. I see why but I don't think its that bad
@ As I said above, that's not a justifiable argument for not touching a problem though, otherwise you might as well not have a ban list at all.
IMO you don't actually have to limit Katrena anyway, just choice restrict it with Cycloned so it isn't as explosive. That way Neos have the flexibility of getting power or defence but they don't get both right away like they do now. It will also curb the amount of times they can justifiably go into Force 2 as the power decrease will more often that not encourage them to go into Force 1.
@@ninjaraccoon9914
The reason musketeers aren't seeing that much success is because people try to force the deck into being worse French Katrina, I promise you the deck is actually crazy if you run less token generators and more musketeers normal units that actually do stuff to further your gameplan
I got whiplash hearing rivals of aether music in my vanguard discussion video but it fit the vibe so well LOLL
@@jinwithanx I love the dudes music overall - I play it randomly in shorts or end songs ❤️🤣 glad you understand
Banning pursuit (I made that original banlist) was because of future proofing. If every other single clan gets their main wincon nerfed in some way. Aqua Force (the clan I main btw) would certainly become a tier 1. Nerfing some of its power is not so much of a crazy idea. Pls dont kill me
@@TheLiamBris hmmm - I want to agree but I know the matches it almost auto losses too and just where the clan stands verses other more problematic clans - I feel it’s fine, I don’t main the deck but casually I used to play into it a lot.
Maybe the issue is fenrir isn’t popular bc fenrir almost auto wins into that MU. The upside to AQF is I feel it doesn’t care about bugs but if bugs were banned I still don’t see the clan really being too much of an issue.
I know some of the stuff is for future proofing but I feel a hit at a time or a few hits at a time would make more sense. There is also some underlining decks that haven’t even been shown off in the meta due to bugs that would cause more issues than AQF.
Buuuuuuuut - I’ve only just now(two weeks ago basically) started heavily playing the format again so I could be entirely wrong 😂 (I played a lot before 2024)
So I while I do get the idea of hitting other things if you hit Gredora, I think letting other things run for a bit is a much smarter choice. Let the meta adjust itself to see what really is good when the unfair one is gone before you take other things. And agreed on the fact the entire format has been unable to play because of 1 card existing is awful, Gredora should have been banned ages ago. We need more V and P cards desperately to fill both formats out. I love where V is at with the tier 2 space being so wide, but some spice would be good.
@@CommonerS19 I’m making a video on my predictions and I feel very similar
I agree on the granblue ban bc of the early game advantage and I also agree on both Narukami and Gredora limit/ban. Though I must say that Kat to 1 would kill the deck fs so limiting Cyclone would be a better choice since he is the real big threat, as token have base power 30K with both kat and cycloned
I think Gyze and defensive decks need to be examined. They've been so ignored but they cause issues in tournament play. Well Gyze less so but it benefits a lot now from the environment and double protect, heavy g guard spam.
gyze is interesting - i saw the game of gyze into granblue where it healed the whole game and decked gb out and i was like ??? yikes LOL
@OuterOrange yeah it's reminder that premium collection 2019 powercreep and gredora were what ended the gyze format. But once defense creeps up again then yikes, and there aremore ways to do it now
I love how I've been saying that crests should be hit for a while, AND NOW PEOPLE WANT TO TAKE IT SERIOUSLY?! I'm sick 🤢
Side Note: Do y'all want to hear my takes on that custom banlist? Cause I wouldn't mind if it wouldn't be redundant.
@@dragnoa.shadow I’ll be honest. I haven’t been playing P while these have been legal all too much.
I’m sure I’d have spoken about it sooner if I actually was heavily playing.
I am heavily playing now and I 100% don’t see a reason for them to stay.
And lol sure go for it! Keep it civil 🙂
Okay bet @@OuterOrange
@@OuterOrange Some decks can't function without it. 1/4 crests have had actual meta relevance. 2/5 with Harri approaching and all it does to Nightrose is make it brick more. I understand the power scaling is obnoxious but something you aren't considering as well is how dull and dead the premium format actually becomes with the removal of crests and therefore after any crest coming. That legitimately takes away any significant changes Divinez adds to premium. Just my two sense though. I think hitting around them is far superior as it allows some decks to get some breathing room in the format, and maintain a somewhat sped up gameplay.
as a megacolony player I agree gredora is toxic but outside of her toxic effect the soul blast 1 call a grade 3 is so crucuial to make v and g cards work together in such a fun way. i want more cards that play like her 2nd effect with lighter control. hitting her to 1 is probs our only safe option without a backlog of bans with her.
though if she gets banned i get to buy out the clan so i guess its fine.
i think just a new stride with something that doesnt do everything would be nice but gives access to some mulit attack or deck movement
I definitely see why bugs needs it (the call from deck is very needed!)
Ban the crest.
Certain restrictions need to be put into place on decks that are hard checked by certain other threats. Balancing out the game is going to be a little difficult. I cannot say what exactly to hit since I play standard but I at least have the experience of playing 7 other card games at a competitive level so I am used to the balancing part of things. Especially since I am a card designer.
Free spangled✊
Yes
no Zarzan to 4?
lmaOOOOoooo
Outright banning crests is based. I would be ok with banning loop cards even if the clan is super bad atm.
Ladder I agree that is not a card that should be in premium (I think the "can't be put other than in R" given to the player is too much), I would be ok with it only working on one turn instead of two.
Yes... do the choice restrict so instead i can just do Darklord instead and get GB3 with my crest :^). I do feel they can remove Peryton off the 3 way choice restrict now especially if they do ban the crest
I'm under the assumption nothing will be touched
I have been testing crest harri tho - and its pretty ridiculous LOL
i can see perry coming off the list (under the assumption crests are banned)
Excuse me but Katrina in my opinion should be banned just like how it was before. The card makes such free value and just like Tony Stark once said "if you're nothing without the suit you shouldn't have it", just like Neo Nectar right now.
that's fair! I can understand that - I want the folks playing the clan to still be able to, the clan was mostly dead without kat - maybe a choice restriction with cyclone?
1 Katrina isn’t a problem. Limiting it to 1 would fix the issues.
What was Neos doing without Katrina? Your use of his qoute is stupid.
@@dreadlord8628 Have you tried to cook something especially with Musketeers after it got the update? Or only Europeans are the ones cooking decks?
I'd say for bans the grade 1 units that give a specific crest when it rides on a specific Grade 0 that we get from the Stride decksets
Maturity Talent, Salena is another prime card that needs to be banned as it gives Bermuda triangle either a GB2 On Turn 2 using lauris or a 4 Attack 2 Crit Pacifica swings, Triple drive and 3 or more cards to guard with for attacks Turn 2. Not to mention if Lyrical gets a stride deckset the amount of shenanigans that deck can do would be Gamebreaking
how does this card do anything for a crest deck when it 100% won't be riviere you would have to play 4 of the crest giver 4 of the g1 riviere 4 of the promo g2 and atleast 1 g2 riviere and pray you don't draw it when you do have to hit all of this wombo combo stuff to do anything....... to get that gb2 on turn 2 play with lauris you have to have a riviere g1 salena, lauris, another g3 to stride a card to go in soul for the cost of salena.... and you go first and you just getting 3 attacks with nobody giving you any damage to do any real play outside of tirua..... that's just a gimmick.....
@@rongill1234 I will say pacifica is a very cheesy gimmick but not the lauris line cause i literally play full riviere and its very nasty on its consistancy
I also run 2 copies of Shandae in the deck as extenders to get lauris in hand while thinning the deck with the constant mermaid idol searches
@shirayukinobunaga9424 yes I play Riviere too and I started with lauris being in the deck hoping to high roll into striding on opponent while they on g1 and when testing if I did get the wombo AND go first people just didn't give me damage while they can still get drive checks off you because you are stronger and toss the trigger to a rg in the back... the you with lots of cards gone aren't doing some amazing sup stride turn you only getting 4 attacks if actually have bodies to put on field. If you play Riviere tirua how ever you still can supride and then do Riviere skill which still gives you 2 force markers you get to play good cards instead of the g2 promo and actually get to use a g3 worth a damn in tirua who's usable the entire game instead of being trash after the sup stride.... best thing I ever did was toss lauris in trash you should too
does premium have ride deck?
No and no energy too. We get the stride crest by riding the grade 1 from hand so decks that can run 4 copies and hope to draw it.
My issue with banning crest is that you retroactively are then banning all future crests. And if no one has noticed, crests are basically the ONLY impactful mechanic from Overdress / Divinez that we even get now.
we could just get premium product - like we used to.
Crest isn't a good mechanic - overtime every clan will get one and I don't see a reason for this to be the future of p building
But it is, and the likelihood of us getting any good premium product vs better designed crests is very low. Those stride deck sets only gave us RFD as even a decent contender.
Remember when v cards actually have impact on premium.
@@metascrub285 it was a great time!
Cutire to 1? I only have 1 response.
As a great youtuber once said - "I hate it here".
Side Note: leave my Aqua Force alone, it has not heart enabler stride, no crest, no opponent turn interaction and no 'PG' GGuard. Who on earth is scared by anything in the Navy at this point?
@@drigon100 we can say that about Neo Nectar. No crest except for musketeer and musketeer is just not good enough to really compete, no guard restrict, no interaction with opponents board. It only has high numbers basically
always hating it here c;
AQF imo needs nothing touched LOL
@ You can't say that for Neos though. You have 2 of the 4 things I mentioned. Sandrine is a Heart Enabler & Rain Breath lets you call on the opponents turn, giving you opponent turn interaction with RGs (like Honoly) or triggering VG effects (like Ines).
@@drigon100Granblue and Great Nature do the same thing but better, do they need to be hit as well.
Most decks can play on the opponent's turn there are cards that have no business being able to denial Griffin and retire Gaurds.
Katrina is nice, I'd just touch Cycloned and that's it.
Leandro calabresa no sabe una chota de vanguard y aguante el overlord viejas
Que Leandro head of chota! Nice list though. Premium players have too much ban anxiety. :P
Calling salome stride crystaluster unfair is stupid in a format with gurguit , fenrier and alot of OTK decks also royal paladin may have a good stride but other clans like shadow have like better strides that chain recor or like other decks are way more unfair to call the combo unbalanced is just cruel like the guard restriction is like dose nothing on a high level compared to what other clans do also royal paladin has shit G guardian and kagero dont even have a stride anymore like reality how it solome stride crystaluster unfair
Awesome video
Put back stunverse back to 4 mwahaha 😈🤣
Wait this real
@@izzyshaath1671 custom! Lots of folks are making predictions
@ please no measurgear ban
Hear me out: we give Lyrical a good crest ,so I can try it in premium
And if that happens, Riviere buyouts would happen overnight cause Turn 2 Strides are a real thing
the buy outs would be fun to watch (:
I wouldn't know how she played . I didn't know much Bermuda/vanguard outside of Melody until building Fortia in late 2022. Sounds like I'd enjoy the Riviere chaos, though