Do not apologize for rambling Mr Pete. Every little nugget you drop while rambling is a tiny pearl of wisdom wee may never have found othewise. Thank you.
Another vote here for a "Metallurgy for Dummies" type of series. Watching a process can help understand it plus you have a knack for explaining what's going on and how not to hurt ourselves(and others) while doing it. Ever thought about teaching? :P
If you watched the video Rebar, you'd have heard him talk about going to the school he taught at at 6:00 AM to get the oven up to temperature before class. I think what he is doing here on his channel is also teaching and I'm sure more than one teacher recommends this to their students.
I love watching your video's nice job. Not by the book, but impressive results was using a heat treat oven and SS foil wrap. Making a pouch out of SS foil wrap I placed the Kasenit plenty of it into the pouch, put the parts into it, more Kasenit along with one piece of brown paper bag. Pouch then sealed. Heat treat to 1700 for enough time and Wham-o nice looking clean case hardened parts, yes the water quench is done tearing the bag over a bucket. The brown paper flashes off burning off the oxygen. Heat treated A2 in a pouch this way getting clean parts, no cleaning required. You take care, your a great teacher of the trade, Cheers!
I have been a journeyman millwright for 20 years. A machinist for 15 years before becoming a journeyman. Our toolroom was eliminated about four years ago. They had a five gallon can of Kasonite about 3/4 full floating around. Nobody around anymore that knew what it was used for - looking to toss it out. Yes, I am one of the old guys. So I brought it home. Only used it once at work - toolroom guys instructed. Your video was perfect timing. Thank You for your time and very informative instruction.
We stayed so busy in metal class building panels, hay feeders, gates, fixing plows and other farm related things we never got to learn stuff like this.. I did have my butt case hardened several times in school and I do remember there was plenty of heat involved in the process.
When I was in college, I learned to use a metallograph (plus the equipment to make samples for the metallograph) and could photograph and estimate the thickness of the carburized layer. We used coke that was obtained somewhere and the oven was vented to release the fumes. A thermocouple was used to monitor the oven temperature, and an optical pyrometer was used to measure the temperature of the test sample. A great job here. Your loyal viewers were anxious to see this, and your project was crying out for this surface treatment. I don't see very many case-hardened products anymore. I used to see it mostly on lower-cost tools (screwdrivers) and the like.
On a side note, I have an older flint-lock muzzleloader that wouldn't spark anymore. I read an old article that instructed how case harden the frizzen so it would throw sparks again. Essentially, take the old frizzen off and clean it. Next, wrap the frizzen in leather and then wrap it up real tight. Throw it an old soup can and then bend the mouth of the can closed to semi-seal the can. Throw the can and all in a fire for about an hour and then throw the can in some water. Next, remove the frizzen and clean it again. I did this about a year ago and it worked like a charm!
I LOVE .finding content like this! I subscribed before this first part was done. So besides taking the time to make this video, to share your knowledge with the world. I (even though I never attended your class, or even the school that you taught in). I want to thank you for teaching thousands of students (including everyone watching your videos). Teaching, is still an honorable profession. Thank you.
You are like many of the shop teachers I have had over the years, only wish younger me actually knew the knowledge you were laying down and appreciated it more. Great video, thank you!
Love It..... I ran a Heat Treating Facility for 18 years, I had Blueprints for & manufactured over 12,000 different Industrial Knives from wood chippers, paper lathe knives & Zamboni Ice scrapers. Most of my products were 55 to 57 on the ROCKWELL. Heating pallets at 1250 for 1 hour then a cold water hydraulic press. After 6 hour into Furnace at 2200 for 2hrs, after cool once more at 2200 for 2 hours & complete.....Some specialty knives we heated only the top 1/3 in molten lead which OSHA frowned on... Upon replacing the badly worn ripped & dusty furnace gaskets I realized I was handling Asbestos & then knew why my heath was failing me. I Long to step into a Machine shop & gathering in the aroma & atmosphere again..
I bet you had a very interesting career. I hope the asbestos did not hurt you permanently. Are used to watch the big furnaces at caterpillar, were the heat treated all of the parts for fuel injectors
Hello Lyle. I have a can of Kasenit that I bought 50+ years ago, still gets used now and again. Heat treatment of metals is an interesting field and was part of my trade course. I have also spent many hours in heat treatment shops and foundries, designing and installing gas burner equipment to provide the heat source. Seen many skilled people who had no formal training, other than years of practice and common sense, producing work that could not be bettered. I am now retired, pottering in my shed and loving it.
I've bought a can of cherry red hardening compound, in anticipation of this video. But because of my lack of patience, tried it in my propane blacksmith forge. It worked well on a small concrete coding adaptor, but WOW! The smoke and fumes from introducing the red hot piece into the compound was unbearable, and drove my friend and I out of the barn, after I put it back in the forge!! So for those who will try this, beware, it is powerful smoke!! Thank you so much for the video, Mr Pete!!
Mr.Pete, I am luck enough to own 1lb. of Kasenit. I built a flintlock, lock about ten years ago and as part of the process I face hardened the Frizzen with this product as recommended by the lock parts manufacturer even though the frizzen itself was supposedly made of High Carbon steel. Recently I have been researching how to Color Case Harden and the process is fairly simple and there are videos on TH-cam on the process. I am in the process of making a heat treat oven as well as a foundry. I have spent over a year acquiring the parts and necessary materials to complete this project. My health isn’t as good as yours or I would have already completed it. Thanks for the demonstration!
When I was a kid, too long ago to talk about, I would see that something was case hardened and think it was something pretty special. Now I have learned what that actually means. Looking forward to the next episode.
Thanks for yet another great edutainment video. I sort of remember doing this in metal shop about a million years ago. Had to come back for an edit. I remember now we made some chisels and case hardened them.
Good morning Mr. Pete ! This has brought back my time in junior high school shop class, when I first learned about case hardening and the process of making the different types of metals. I can't wait to see the rest of the series on this subject!
If you still have the trays you used for this, it would be interesting to try and bend one to see if it is brittle and breaks, or if it is harder to bend than the same material that had not been used in the furnace.
Good morning Lyle - brings back memories of the metallurgy course, spring semester 1968 for this retired mechanical engineer. Very good practical explanation of the steel Eutectic Diagram that we had so much fun with back there. Great video - I'm looking forward to seeing the next one and trying this myself in the little home made furnace that I picked up at an auction a few years ago. Was built by a former shop teacher here who lived to a ripe old age - my brother in law followed him in that job. Will be fun to try. Keep up the good work.
Excellent video. I actually had one of the technicians in our lab explain this to me a couple years ago. After about 30 minutes of brain hemorrhage, I give up and left.
I missed out on one of our schools best shop teachers.Just prior to my freshman year the school discover that Dock Chilson was not certified in industrial arts after teaching it for close to 40 years. They made him step down and finish his career teaching math. He ran a tight ship and kept the kids and tools in their places. The new teacher opened the tool crib and read books while the boys ran wild. The shop was closed shortly after due to lack of tools and supplies. I often wonder what I missed out on due to regulation.
@@mrpete222 I often wonder if the common sense that is imparted by working with your hands is what the administration fears the most and may be why they seem hell bent on eliminating shop classes. Thanks I know you are busy so no reply is needed.
Hi Lyle, I have just found this tip on the internet for making your own Case Hardening Compound, I will have to badger the neighbours to save their fruit stones. Regards from Australia. Try using the old gunsmiths trick, fruit stones heated until they change to charcoal, smash with a hammer until a fine powder then use as Kasenit. Different fruits will give different colours. The best bit is its free.
I was a sparked in a 65 man maintenance shop. Only had 2 older guys who know how to harden parts. We had some obsolete machines that a couple of times a year they would machine replacement parts. Kinda of remember they put some kind of powder on it ( can not remember before or after they placed parts in hot oven. They would pull the parts out and submerge them in oil. Can remember tool & die shops had to take in account how much a part or die will change after sending out to be hardened. Great vid.
I was a dental tech. for 25 years. That was the same oven we used for casting the gold and porcelain metal understructures. We use the lost cast method. Wax up the tooth, invested it in a plaster type substance, let it get hard, burned out the wax and casted it. Same way they do Jewelry.
Had one class of metal shop in the 9th grade, made a chisel and a tinners hammer. No fun stuff like heat treating or brazing, maybe we were not of the correct personalities.l Anyhow, I thoroughly enjoyed your class on case hardening and would enjoy a further journey into making metals hard. Thanks for presenting those adventures if you so choose.
Hello, great topic! Color case hardening is still done - Bobby Tyler at Tyler's Gun Works does it. To borrow for educational purposes, Mike Venturino states, "There are two basic types of color case hardening. One is done by a chemical process using cyanide. The other method consists of packing the part in a dry mixture, baking it to very high temperature and then quenching it suddenly in water. This second method is called pack hardening. It’s a lot more complicated than this paragraph might indicate."
The trick to making it work is avoid the work piece making contact with the air before quenching. As Liberty points out it takes some planning to make it work. The results are beautiful when successful.
Wow, does this bring back memories. Both in using Casinit and the dangers of cyanide hardening. In the early 70s, I was serving my tool and die apprenticeship at Westinghouse. Part of our training was making some of our own tools. By the time we served our 4 years, most of us had our own gauge block sets, two or three different angle blocks, a few matched sets of vee blocks, pairs of 1-2-3, 2-4-6, and, 4-6-8 blocks, some bench blocks, and different sizes of grinding vices. Management wasn't going to waste tool steel on us so our projects were C.R.S., cyanide hardened. When he had his work caught up, "Louie the hardener" would tell our boss he could take a few of the "baby birds" and teach them carburizing on their own stuff. Back then we had buckets of tri-chloro ethane 1-1-1 to wash the oil off the finished parts. If you had a lot of small parts you could take them to the vapor tank ( tri-chlor heated to a mist) and do them by the basket load. About a week before Christmas, Louie would shut down the "special furnace " to let it cool down so he could scrub it out and put in new firebrick. Between the three shifts, management, and pretty much anyone who happened by, Louie would make about 300 servings of just about the best sausage and peppers you would ever taste. Who knows what if any damage we did by eating food made in a case hardening furnace, but it sure was good!
@@mrpete222 It certainly was. My class was the next to last to get to finish our apprenticeship. Westinghouse lamp division was already winding down so we were basically laid off at our graduation. We were trained in Swiss-style toolmaking, an art that was all but killed by C.N.C. I was in and out of the machine trades after that, working in the motorsports industry. They could take away the job they trained me for, but they couldn't take away the training. The last time I worked for a machine shop was to correct a problem that was human error made worse by the speed of C.N.C. This shop was doing a very large production job. The material was 4-inch cubes of brass. One side got a concave hemisphere that was finished to a high polish. There was a 10-32 tapped through hole offset 1 inch from the bottom of the sphere. They were tap drilled for a roll-form tap and somehow a cutting tap got used on over 1,000 of these parts. I got hired because nobody in that shop knew how to fix them. I took 3/16 brass rod, single point threaded to a tight fit on the bad threads ( this part handles high pressure, and the customer wanted the repair to be as inconspicuous as possible ). I would drive the rod into the part using liquid flux to lubricate the threads, flush cutting the rod, and silver soldering the threads. The last operation was to blend both ends of the rod and re-polish the sphere. I worked on that job for 9 months and consider it " revenge of the toolmaker " The next time I worked in a machine shop I owned it.
Yes, I remember doing a chisel in school shop class, I made a flat chisel from a piece of bar steel, heated forged and tempered with carbon powder. Was a learning experience.
You are so right with dangers of arsenic. Worked a long weekend in an old electroplating plant. Told the maintenance man that my nose was bleeding for no reason along with earlier sneezing. Told me corner that I worked in was loaded with arsenic that they no longer were allowed to use. Lost 95% of my smell to this day. Can go days without picking up any smells.
Interesting process. I remember case hardening frizzens for flintlock rifles with my uncle. He used a combination of charcoal and leather with some antler filings mixed in. It did a good job.
I worked in a factory that did large scale case hardening. The furnaces would be injected with carbon tetrachloride to provide the carbon for the carburization. I have a couple of knives I've made that were case hardened, hardened, and then tempered in that process.
Thank you Mr Pete. I like this very much and would love to see more about any kind of treatment of metal. I hope you are enjoying some spring time weather and getting outside.
I find this topic and the others you mention possibly making interesting. It seems good to know how to do it in a home shop. Thank you for making the videos. I am looking forward to watching the next part or parts.
At work we have several different heat treat methods. Nitrex for case hardening, in the Tool Room they still have Brine treatment which is highly poisonous. When you quench, my Metallurgy book says Instead of a slow figure 8, to vigorously shake and or move the part around to create a lot of tiny bubbles around the part. I can’t remember word for word but that it’s supposed to help
Mr. Pete, you're a legend and I love your videos.🙂 In our workshop we now use the Cherry red compound. Just not the same as the Kasenit which works well.
We had a natural gas oven in our HS Shop. We used a bone meal and charcoal compound for case hardening in our HS Shop. Very interesting video, with good information. Thank you.
Interesting process. We made a center punch in school and heat treated it. Neat stuff. You mentioned the colors as steel is treated. I enjoy watching the progression from straw to blue and so on. Amazing. Thanks again for the work you do for us.
I've used this case hardening compound to make spring steel for small springs. I use A2 tool steel alot. It is air hardening. Hard to machine but finishes nice.
Another brilliant video Mr Pete, thanks so much for this. Have tracked down a copy of the Tempil Chart and it will now go up in my workshop. Cheers, Alan.
You're still getting better at this teaching shop to youtubers business! I remember the field trip - that was a good one too - the proprietor had ingenious shop-made almost robot mechanisms attached to his lathes so they would cycle parts by themselves - like little money machines.
I do want to thank you for this video. This is an interesting process I knew very little about. I am very interested in further videos on hardening and annealing.
Fabulous! Interesting, crystal clear as to what is involved and in the practical doing. Something I have never done, but it sure looks interesting and super useful. Thank you for sharing!
We would use fire putty to seal up a container. Also throw a piece of paper inside the top of the lid. Reduced the oxygen in the can reduced the scale and wouldnt contaminate the furnace
I’m a retired toolmaker and it’s best if you make sure the KASENIT doesn’t have clumps or chunks in it, you want the material to be all powder so it comes in contact with the surfaces evenly with no air pockets or voids, you can sift the chunks out and grind them up to powder to reuse. We used the KASENIT on tool steels for the most part and it hardened them to a depth of about .015 if the process was done correctly.
That furnance is very nice Tubalcain, you always have the slick equipment. Bummer can't get Kasenit anymore probably due to environmental issues. They always take the fun out of everything.
Hi, nice demo. I saw an idea to see the carborizing depth. Carborize a 5-4 mm round or square rod, quench it and brake it by bending in a vice. You'll see the carbonized depth by the grain and color difference.
Thank you, Mr. Pete. As I’m building experience in my machining hobby I find I need to learn lots more about metallurgy. I appreciate your contribution!
I have an old can of this in my home shop but remember using it in trade school in the mid 70s for two class projects the first was a small layout hammer which I still have and use today the second was a set of V blocks I remember my shop teacher saying it only would penetrate maybe a couple of thousands
Very informative Mr. Pete. Looking forward to part two. Also, annealing, normalizing and other heat treating functions would be nice to learn about. I will include the two with the swivel vice jaws project on the site. Thanks for sharing. Joe
I heat treated parts for my motorcycle. I had to make a new mount for a larger gas tank. I used an old lawn mower blade that i heated red hot with a propane torch. After it cooled off I was able to cut it with a hacksaw and drill some holes to fit the mounting holes and the hinge for my solo seat. I heated the parts to red hot in a charcoal grill and quenched them in used motor oil. Not only did they turn black they were also rust proof. I also put them in the kitchen oven at 250 degrees for 1/2 hour and let them cool off.
Hi Mr Pete, we used to use the same product in our school metal working projects, hardening center punch tips comes to memory, we ded not have the luxury of a furnace but used qxy fuel
Interesting video Lyle, thanks for sharing. We used to be able to get Kasenit in the UK, I remember using it 30 odd years ago in a small company I worked for. The tin was slightly different but pretty sure the contents were the same. Cheers, Jon
Excellent video, as always Mr. Pete! We would soak for many hours to get usable case depth, and then the part might be finish ground to size. We would also include a scrap piece of metal to check case depth on, by either breaking the scrap piece, or etching. If you have .030 to .045" case depth, when you break the scrap piece you can clearly see the hardened layer.
Hi Mr. Pete, 1000F is about 537C and 1700F is about 926C. With non contact IR thermometers today it is easy as you can select between scales F. C. or K. Do you remember the clay cones used?
That's fascinating. I've never seen this process before. Two, reproduction firearms I own have beautiful colored case-hardening; they were made in Italy.
Lyle Why not just start with harden-able steel (O-1/W-1/etc), then heat and quench to get it hard all the way thru?? Then anneal it to the hardness you want John
That was very interesting. Good video to get the old brain cells firing first thing in the morning. I noticed the instructions say .020” depth of hardness in 50 minutes. Also there is mention of nitriding which is also a surface hardening technique using gas. This is something that needed to be done after regrinding the old 4 cylinder Porsche crankshafts.
Do not apologize for rambling Mr Pete. Every little nugget you drop while rambling is a tiny pearl of wisdom wee may never have found othewise. Thank you.
Thank you so much
Another vote here for a "Metallurgy for Dummies" type of series. Watching a process can help understand it plus you have a knack for explaining what's going on and how not to hurt ourselves(and others) while doing it. Ever thought about teaching? :P
Thank you very much
theres a very good book by Verhoeven titled “Metallurgy for bladesmiths” widely available in pdf form thats very approachable and well written.
If you watched the video Rebar, you'd have heard him talk about going to the school he taught at at 6:00 AM to get the oven up to temperature before class. I think what he is doing here on his channel is also teaching and I'm sure more than one teacher recommends this to their students.
@@flick22601 Sorry, I was being facetious knowing full well he was a teacher for years. :)
@@Rebar77_real Now, I'm one of the kings of sarcasm and I couldn't figure out that you were just being funny. Think maybe I need to go back to school.
You could use a cut off wheel to cut in half then etch it with an acid and see the depth of case hardening.
I love watching your video's nice job. Not by the book, but impressive results was using a heat treat oven and SS foil wrap. Making a pouch out of SS foil wrap I placed the Kasenit plenty of it into the pouch, put the parts into it, more Kasenit along with one piece of brown paper bag. Pouch then sealed. Heat treat to 1700 for enough time and Wham-o nice looking clean case hardened parts, yes the water quench is done tearing the bag over a bucket. The brown paper flashes off burning off the oxygen. Heat treated A2 in a pouch this way getting clean parts, no cleaning required. You take care, your a great teacher of the trade, Cheers!
Thank you for that good explanation
Yes, please make the additional videos in this hardening, tempering and annealing series. You do a good job of explaining these things.
well now i know what my godfather had that 5 gallon pail of cyanide for he did alot of different metal working things
Would like to see more videos on hardening, tempering, annealing. They are interesting topics. Thanks Mr. Pete for sharing.
Check out other TH-cam channels. This Old Tony, clickspring, and others.
I have been a journeyman millwright for 20 years. A machinist for 15 years before becoming a journeyman. Our toolroom was eliminated about four years ago. They had a five gallon can of Kasonite about 3/4 full floating around. Nobody around anymore that knew what it was used for - looking to toss it out. Yes, I am one of the old guys. So I brought it home. Only used it once at work - toolroom guys instructed. Your video was perfect timing. Thank You for your time and very informative instruction.
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We stayed so busy in metal class building panels, hay feeders, gates, fixing plows and other farm related things we never got to learn stuff like this.. I did have my butt case hardened several times in school and I do remember there was plenty of heat involved in the process.
lol
What I love most about Mr Pete videos, The Detours, Don't stop, You have our attention.
One of your Year 60 students.
Thanks
When I was in college, I learned to use a metallograph (plus the equipment to make samples for the metallograph) and could photograph and estimate the thickness of the carburized layer. We used coke that was obtained somewhere and the oven was vented to release the fumes. A thermocouple was used to monitor the oven temperature, and an optical pyrometer was used to measure the temperature of the test sample.
A great job here. Your loyal viewers were anxious to see this, and your project was crying out for this surface treatment. I don't see very many case-hardened products anymore. I used to see it mostly on lower-cost tools (screwdrivers) and the like.
On a side note, I have an older flint-lock muzzleloader that wouldn't spark anymore. I read an old article that instructed how case harden the frizzen so it would throw sparks again. Essentially, take the old frizzen off and clean it. Next, wrap the frizzen in leather and then wrap it up real tight. Throw it an old soup can and then bend the mouth of the can closed to semi-seal the can. Throw the can and all in a fire for about an hour and then throw the can in some water. Next, remove the frizzen and clean it again. I did this about a year ago and it worked like a charm!
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I LOVE .finding content like this! I subscribed before this first part was done. So besides taking the time to make this video, to share your knowledge with the world. I (even though I never attended your class, or even the school that you taught in). I want to thank you for teaching thousands of students (including everyone watching your videos). Teaching, is still an honorable profession. Thank you.
Thank you so much for watching and subscribing. I have 1500 videos you know.
You are like many of the shop teachers I have had over the years, only wish younger me actually knew the knowledge you were laying down and appreciated it more. Great video, thank you!
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Love It..... I ran a Heat Treating Facility for 18 years, I had Blueprints for & manufactured over 12,000 different Industrial Knives from wood chippers, paper lathe knives & Zamboni Ice scrapers. Most of my products were 55 to 57 on the ROCKWELL. Heating pallets at 1250 for 1 hour then a cold water hydraulic press. After 6 hour into Furnace at 2200 for 2hrs, after cool once more at 2200 for 2 hours & complete.....Some specialty knives we heated only the top 1/3 in molten lead which OSHA frowned on... Upon replacing the badly worn ripped & dusty furnace gaskets I realized I was handling Asbestos & then knew why my heath was failing me. I Long to step into a Machine shop & gathering in the aroma & atmosphere again..
I bet you had a very interesting career. I hope the asbestos did not hurt you permanently. Are used to watch the big furnaces at caterpillar, were the heat treated all of the parts for fuel injectors
Hello Lyle. I have a can of Kasenit that I bought 50+ years ago, still gets used now and again. Heat treatment of metals is an interesting field and was part of my trade course. I have also spent many hours in heat treatment shops and foundries, designing and installing gas burner equipment to provide the heat source. Seen many skilled people who had no formal training, other than years of practice and common sense, producing work that could not be bettered. I am now retired, pottering in my shed and loving it.
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I've bought a can of cherry red hardening compound, in anticipation of this video. But because of my lack of patience, tried it in my propane blacksmith forge. It worked well on a small concrete coding adaptor, but WOW! The smoke and fumes from introducing the red hot piece into the compound was unbearable, and drove my friend and I out of the barn, after I put it back in the forge!! So for those who will try this, beware, it is powerful smoke!! Thank you so much for the video, Mr Pete!!
Then I guess I could not use that compound in the basement
Mr.Pete, I am luck enough to own 1lb. of Kasenit. I built a flintlock, lock about ten years ago and as part of the process I face hardened the Frizzen with this product as recommended by the lock parts manufacturer even though the frizzen itself was supposedly made of High Carbon steel.
Recently I have been researching how to Color Case Harden and the process is fairly simple and there are videos on TH-cam on the process. I am in the process of making a heat treat oven as well as a foundry. I have spent over a year acquiring the parts and necessary materials to complete this project. My health isn’t as good as yours or I would have already completed it. Thanks for the demonstration!
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Thanks Mr. Pete for taking the time to show us this one more vote for the hardening and annealing of tool steel videos!
Yes
When I was a kid, too long ago to talk about, I would see that something was case hardened and think it was something pretty special. Now I have learned what that actually means. Looking forward to the next episode.
Thanks for yet another great edutainment video. I sort of remember doing this in metal shop about a million years ago. Had to come back for an edit. I remember now we made some chisels and case hardened them.
Yes, these things seem like we did them 1 million years ago
Good morning Mr. Pete !
This has brought back my time in junior high school shop class, when I first learned about case hardening and the process of making the different types of metals. I can't wait to see the rest of the series on this subject!
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If you still have the trays you used for this, it would be interesting to try and bend one to see if it is brittle and breaks, or if it is harder to bend than the same material that had not been used in the furnace.
Funny you should mention that. I was thinking the same thing
@@mrpete222 If great minds think alike....🤔 Well, better than average minds anyway 😁.
Good morning Lyle - brings back memories of the metallurgy course, spring semester 1968 for this retired mechanical engineer. Very good practical explanation of the steel Eutectic Diagram that we had so much fun with back there. Great video - I'm looking forward to seeing the next one and trying this myself in the little home made furnace that I picked up at an auction a few years ago. Was built by a former shop teacher here who lived to a ripe old age - my brother in law followed him in that job. Will be fun to try. Keep up the good work.
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Excellent video. I actually had one of the technicians in our lab explain this to me a couple years ago. After about 30 minutes of brain hemorrhage, I give up and left.
I saw the disassembly series; actually watched it several times. Watching working machine tools is a joy
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I missed out on one of our schools best shop teachers.Just prior to my freshman year the school discover that Dock Chilson was not certified in industrial arts after teaching it for close to 40 years. They made him step down and finish his career teaching math. He ran a tight ship and kept the kids and tools in their places. The new teacher opened the tool crib and read books while the boys ran wild. The shop was closed shortly after due to lack of tools and supplies.
I often wonder what I missed out on due to regulation.
Very sad story. But do not underestimate the stupidity of the administration.
@@mrpete222 I often wonder if the common sense that is imparted by working with your hands is what the administration fears the most and may be why they seem hell bent on eliminating shop classes. Thanks I know you are busy so no reply is needed.
Very sad story, guy put his life into that job
Accreditation always takes precedence over competence and experience.
@@bobweiram6321 I think that is not the case at the college level. Seems kind of bass akwards to me.
I’m 58 years old, worked around metal my whole life. Heard the phase “case hardened”, never knew what it was until today. Thank you Mr Pete!
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Hi Lyle, I have just found this tip on the internet for making your own Case Hardening Compound, I will have to badger the neighbours to save their fruit stones. Regards from Australia. Try using the old gunsmiths trick, fruit stones heated until they change to charcoal, smash with a hammer until a fine powder then use as Kasenit.
Different fruits will give different colours.
The best bit is its free.
I need to buy a bushel of peaches
As always, Thank you for sharing your time and many, many talents! Bring on the tool steel hardening videos!
Good morning chuck
I was a sparked in a 65 man maintenance shop. Only had 2 older guys who know how to harden parts. We had some obsolete machines that a couple of times a year they would machine replacement parts. Kinda of remember they put some kind of powder on it ( can not remember before or after they placed parts in hot oven. They would pull the parts out and submerge them in oil. Can remember tool & die shops had to take in account how much a part or die will change after sending out to be hardened. Great vid.
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Thank you for providing the time stamp for ware the process starts. Most yt creators don't do this.
I was a dental tech. for 25 years. That was the same oven we used for casting the gold and porcelain metal understructures. We use the lost cast method. Wax up the tooth, invested it in a plaster type substance, let it get hard, burned out the wax and casted it. Same way they do Jewelry.
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Thanks Mr Pete. These are fascinating videos.
Good Morning Lyle, Great topic...yes more please...enjoyed..
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Had one class of metal shop in the 9th grade, made a chisel and a tinners hammer. No fun stuff like heat treating or brazing, maybe we were not of the correct personalities.l Anyhow, I thoroughly enjoyed your class on case hardening and would enjoy a further journey into making metals hard. Thanks for presenting those adventures if you so choose.
Thanks
I think several generations of Americans will be redeemed by MrPete's lectures how to harden\temper\anneal tool steel.
Thanks
Amazing.Brings me back to trade school when questions about these topics were on our exams.How much I forgot and you gave back again.Thank you.
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Hello, great topic! Color case hardening is still done - Bobby Tyler at Tyler's Gun Works does it. To borrow for educational purposes, Mike Venturino states, "There are two basic types of color case hardening. One is done by a chemical process using cyanide. The other method consists of packing the part in a dry mixture, baking it to very high temperature and then quenching it suddenly in water. This second method is called pack hardening. It’s a lot more complicated than this paragraph might indicate."
Check out turnbull restoration, beautiful gun restorations including color case hardening.
I mostly do blacksmith stuff rather than machining. The way I have seen it done is to pack the part in bonemeal and then heat it
The trick to making it work is avoid the work piece making contact with the air before quenching. As Liberty points out it takes some planning to make it work. The results are beautiful when successful.
Wow, does this bring back memories. Both in using Casinit and the dangers of cyanide hardening. In the early 70s, I was serving my tool and die apprenticeship at Westinghouse. Part of our training was making some of our own tools. By the time we served our 4 years, most of us had our own gauge block sets, two or three different angle blocks, a few matched sets of vee blocks, pairs of 1-2-3, 2-4-6, and, 4-6-8 blocks, some bench blocks, and different sizes of grinding vices. Management wasn't going to waste tool steel on us so our projects were C.R.S., cyanide hardened. When he had his work caught up, "Louie the hardener" would tell our boss he could take a few of the "baby birds" and teach them carburizing on their own stuff. Back then we had buckets of tri-chloro ethane 1-1-1 to wash the oil off the finished parts. If you had a lot of small parts you could take them to the vapor tank ( tri-chlor heated to a mist) and do them by the basket load. About a week before Christmas, Louie would shut down the "special furnace " to let it cool down so he could scrub it out and put in new firebrick. Between the three shifts, management, and pretty much anyone who happened by, Louie would make about 300 servings of just about the best sausage and peppers you would ever taste. Who knows what if any damage we did by eating food made in a case hardening furnace, but it sure was good!
That was a wonderful story. Louis must’ve been quite a man. Those were the days when men were men. I bet that was a great apprenticeship
@@mrpete222 It certainly was. My class was the next to last to get to finish our apprenticeship. Westinghouse lamp division was already winding down so we were basically laid off at our graduation. We were trained in Swiss-style toolmaking, an art that was all but killed by C.N.C. I was in and out of the machine trades after that, working in the motorsports industry. They could take away the job they trained me for, but they couldn't take away the training. The last time I worked for a machine shop was to correct a problem that was human error made worse by the speed of C.N.C. This shop was doing a very large production job. The material was 4-inch cubes of brass. One side got a concave hemisphere that was finished to a high polish. There was a 10-32 tapped through hole offset 1 inch from the bottom of the sphere. They were tap drilled for a roll-form tap and somehow a cutting tap got used on over 1,000 of these parts. I got hired because nobody in that shop knew how to fix them. I took 3/16 brass rod, single point threaded to a tight fit on the bad threads ( this part handles high pressure, and the customer wanted the repair to be as inconspicuous as possible ). I would drive the rod into the part using liquid flux to lubricate the threads, flush cutting the rod, and silver soldering the threads. The last operation was to blend both ends of the rod and re-polish the sphere. I worked on that job for 9 months and consider it " revenge of the toolmaker " The next time I worked in a machine shop I owned it.
We had to grind up charcoal to case harden our parts in school. You would pack it in charcoal, heat it, take it out, reheat it, and quench it in oil.
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@@mrpete222 that was over 20 years ago. I'm still using those parallels and 1-2-3 blocks!
Certainly interested in more content about hardening. I always enjoy your delivery.
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Yes, I remember doing a chisel in school shop class, I made a flat chisel from a piece of bar steel, heated forged and tempered with carbon powder. Was a learning experience.
Thank you for another great video. Perfect timing for my morning coffee and looking forward to the next episode.
You are so right with dangers of arsenic. Worked a long weekend in an old electroplating plant. Told the maintenance man that my nose was bleeding for no reason along with earlier sneezing. Told me corner that I worked in was loaded with arsenic that they no longer were allowed to use. Lost 95% of my smell to this day. Can go days without picking up any smells.
Wow, very unfortunate. That is strong stuff
Well done Lyle. Works great.
Interesting process. I remember case hardening frizzens for flintlock rifles with my uncle. He used a combination of charcoal and leather with some antler filings mixed in. It did a good job.
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I worked in a factory that did large scale case hardening. The furnaces would be injected with carbon tetrachloride to provide the carbon for the carburization. I have a couple of knives I've made that were case hardened, hardened, and then tempered in that process.
Thank you Mr Pete.
I like this very much and would love to see more about any kind of treatment of metal.
I hope you are enjoying some spring time weather and getting outside.
It’s cold again today
I was totally unaware of this product and process. Very interesting! I am eager for the next video about it! Thanks for making this for us!
It's unlawful to use this where I live. Cyanide.
I find this topic and the others you mention possibly making interesting. It seems good to know how to do it in a home shop. Thank you for making the videos. I am looking forward to watching the next part or parts.
At work we have several different heat treat
methods. Nitrex for case hardening, in the
Tool Room they still have Brine treatment
which is highly poisonous.
When you quench, my Metallurgy book says
Instead of a slow figure 8, to vigorously shake and
or move the part around to create a lot of tiny
bubbles around the part. I can’t remember word
for word but that it’s supposed to help
Another "yea" vote for a heat treating series.
Thanks for this one.
Mr. Pete, you're a legend and I love your videos.🙂 In our workshop we now use the Cherry red compound. Just not the same as the Kasenit which works well.
This is very informative and interesting, thank you Mr. Pete
We had a natural gas oven in our HS Shop. We used a bone meal and charcoal compound for case hardening in our HS Shop. Very interesting video, with good information. Thank you.
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Interesting process. We made a center punch in school and heat treated it. Neat stuff.
You mentioned the colors as steel is treated. I enjoy watching the progression from straw to blue and so on. Amazing.
Thanks again for the work you do for us.
Mr. Pete I had Kasenit years ago but all I can get now is Cherry Red and it doesn’t work, I love your videos
Richard Rickmann: I have to disagree. I hardened a small lawn mower part with Cherry Red with a torch, and the part is file hard on the surface.
I've used this case hardening compound to make spring steel for small springs. I use A2 tool steel alot. It is air hardening. Hard to machine but finishes nice.
Another brilliant video Mr Pete, thanks so much for this. Have tracked down a copy of the Tempil Chart and it will now go up in my workshop. Cheers, Alan.
Yes
You're still getting better at this teaching shop to youtubers business! I remember the field trip - that was a good one too - the proprietor had ingenious shop-made almost robot mechanisms attached to his lathes so they would cycle parts by themselves - like little money machines.
Once in the factory I worked in many years ago we case hardened a shaft using the cast iron chips from one of the planers.
I do want to thank you for this video. This is an interesting process I knew very little about. I am very interested in further videos on hardening and annealing.
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Thank you for the information and explanation before the actual demonstration. This was very helpful to me in understanding the process.
Please do more on this. I have never really go my head around case hardening, annealing, and so on. I need educating!!!
Fabulous! Interesting, crystal clear as to what is involved and in the practical doing. Something I have never done, but it sure looks interesting and super useful. Thank you for sharing!
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6 am I have my coffee and ready to watch
great video, mr pete...the colored temperature heat index of metal chart is some seriously good stuff...now i know!!! thanks!!!
Yes, do continue with the subject of heat treating.
God morning Mr. Pete, Good video and content. Something I will use in the future.
We would use fire putty to seal up a container. Also throw a piece of paper inside the top of the lid. Reduced the oxygen in the can reduced the scale and wouldnt contaminate the furnace
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I’m a retired toolmaker and it’s best if you make sure the KASENIT doesn’t have clumps or chunks in it, you want the material to be all powder so it comes in contact with the surfaces evenly with no air pockets or voids, you can sift the chunks out and grind them up to powder to reuse. We used the KASENIT on tool steels for the most part and it hardened them to a depth of about .015 if the process was done correctly.
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Great video! Many memories brought back from my younger days. Had my own can of Kasonite to harden the frizens on flint locks.
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Very interesting Mr. Pete. I have heard the term case hardening but have never heard how it is done. Thank you for this informative video.
That furnance is very nice Tubalcain, you always have the slick equipment. Bummer can't get Kasenit anymore probably due to environmental issues. They always take the fun out of everything.
Yes, there was an ingredient that killed laboratory rats.
Hi, nice demo. I saw an idea to see the carborizing depth. Carborize a 5-4 mm round or square rod, quench it and brake it by bending in a vice. You'll see the carbonized depth by the grain and color difference.
Thank you, Mr. Pete. As I’m building experience in my machining hobby I find I need to learn lots more about metallurgy. I appreciate your contribution!
Wonderful as always Mr Pete thank you for sharing
I have an old can of this in my home shop but remember using it in trade school in the mid 70s for two class projects the first was a small layout hammer which I still have and use today the second was a set of V blocks I remember my shop teacher saying it only would penetrate maybe a couple of thousands
Very informative Mr. Pete. Looking forward to part two. Also, annealing, normalizing and other heat treating functions would be nice to learn about. I will include the two with the swivel vice jaws project on the site. Thanks for sharing.
Joe
Thanks Joe. And yes they do belong on your site along with the other vice jaw videos.
I did not forget about the Peterson product drawings, I’ve just been real busy
Wow! Last time I saw a can of Kasenit was back at school in the early to mid 1970s in the metalwork class.
lol
I learned something new right off the bat this morning, I guess I can take the rest of the day off. thanx
Yes, sit back and relax for the rest of the day
I heat treated parts for my motorcycle. I had to make a new mount for a larger gas tank. I used an old lawn mower blade that i heated red hot with a propane torch. After it cooled off I was able to cut it with a hacksaw and drill some holes to fit the mounting holes and the hinge for my solo seat. I heated the parts to red hot in a charcoal grill and quenched them in used motor oil. Not only did they turn black they were also rust proof. I also put them in the kitchen oven at 250 degrees for 1/2 hour and let them cool off.
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Hi Mr Pete, we used to use the same product in our school metal working projects, hardening center punch tips comes to memory, we ded not have the luxury of a furnace but used qxy fuel
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Looking forward to Part 2.
Interesting video Lyle, thanks for sharing. We used to be able to get Kasenit in the UK, I remember using it 30 odd years ago in a small company I worked for. The tin was slightly different but pretty sure the contents were the same. Cheers, Jon
Excellent video, as always Mr. Pete! We would soak for many hours to get usable case depth, and then the part might be finish ground to size. We would also include a scrap piece of metal to check case depth on, by either breaking the scrap piece, or etching. If you have .030 to .045" case depth, when you break the scrap piece you can clearly see the hardened layer.
I was told they took this off the market!I tried to buy some and could not!The replacement is called Cherry Red!
Yes, they took it off the market. It may cause cancer and possums, but they’re not really sure.
@@mrpete222 Actually it was sodium cyanide.Better known as carbonizing salts .I worked for a company that had its own heat treating department!
What a legend this guy is!
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It was a pleasure to watch your video. Great job!
Hi Mr. Pete, 1000F is about 537C and 1700F is about 926C. With non contact IR thermometers today it is easy as you can select between scales F. C. or K. Do you remember the clay cones used?
I remember those cones
lol, you caught the annealing right as I thought it. "I have seen you astanding, but never annealing..."
Damn I love that! Can I use that line royalty free?
Haha, I see whatcha did there!
Very interesting video...
Always been interested in the process of Harding steel
Thanks Lyle, I enjoyed the process.
I have a jug of case hardening compound like that as well.👍
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That's fascinating. I've never seen this process before. Two, reproduction firearms I own have beautiful colored case-hardening; they were made in Italy.
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Neat stuff there Mr. Pete.
I studied metallurgy and machining at Hillyards Technical School. Very interesting stuff!
Very Very interesting , waited for part 2 to come out so I can watch them back to back. Would be very intersested in the additional videos too.
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Thanks for a GREAT low-tech and VERY enjoyable video!!! Waiting for Part 2!
Lyle
Why not just start with harden-able steel (O-1/W-1/etc), then heat and quench to get it hard all the way thru?? Then anneal it to the hardness you want
John
That was very interesting. Good video to get the old brain cells firing first thing in the morning. I noticed the instructions say .020” depth of hardness in 50 minutes. Also there is mention of nitriding which is also a surface hardening technique using gas. This is something that needed to be done after regrinding the old 4 cylinder Porsche crankshafts.
Porch used to see KREIDLER a german factory.. ( a moped factory),, they were (the excellence)..in IRON trans formatioj