CASE HARDENING Carburizing vise jaws
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- This is part 1 of a 2 part video class on CASE HARDENING steel. Also known as SURFACE HARDENING or CARBURIZING. This process allows you to surface harden low carbon/mild steel such as 1018.
Here is the link for Part 2 -- • CASE HARDENING Surface...
I will use KASINIT (no longer available) powder in this demonstration.
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#kasenit#cherryred#casehardening#heattreating#carburizing#hardeningsteel#temperingsteel#normalizingsteel#annealing
Would like to see more videos on hardening, tempering, annealing. They are interesting topics. Thanks Mr. Pete for sharing.
Check out other TH-cam channels. This Old Tony, clickspring, and others.
You could use a cut off wheel to cut in half then etch it with an acid and see the depth of case hardening.
Mr.Pete, I am luck enough to own 1lb. of Kasenit. I built a flintlock, lock about ten years ago and as part of the process I face hardened the Frizzen with this product as recommended by the lock parts manufacturer even though the frizzen itself was supposedly made of High Carbon steel.
Recently I have been researching how to Color Case Harden and the process is fairly simple and there are videos on TH-cam on the process. I am in the process of making a heat treat oven as well as a foundry. I have spent over a year acquiring the parts and necessary materials to complete this project. My health isn’t as good as yours or I would have already completed it. Thanks for the demonstration!
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I was a dental tech. for 25 years. That was the same oven we used for casting the gold and porcelain metal understructures. We use the lost cast method. Wax up the tooth, invested it in a plaster type substance, let it get hard, burned out the wax and casted it. Same way they do Jewelry.
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I was a sparked in a 65 man maintenance shop. Only had 2 older guys who know how to harden parts. We had some obsolete machines that a couple of times a year they would machine replacement parts. Kinda of remember they put some kind of powder on it ( can not remember before or after they placed parts in hot oven. They would pull the parts out and submerge them in oil. Can remember tool & die shops had to take in account how much a part or die will change after sending out to be hardened. Great vid.
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I have been a journeyman millwright for 20 years. A machinist for 15 years before becoming a journeyman. Our toolroom was eliminated about four years ago. They had a five gallon can of Kasonite about 3/4 full floating around. Nobody around anymore that knew what it was used for - looking to toss it out. Yes, I am one of the old guys. So I brought it home. Only used it once at work - toolroom guys instructed. Your video was perfect timing. Thank You for your time and very informative instruction.
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Good morning Mr. Pete !
This has brought back my time in junior high school shop class, when I first learned about case hardening and the process of making the different types of metals. I can't wait to see the rest of the series on this subject!
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I was totally unaware of this product and process. Very interesting! I am eager for the next video about it! Thanks for making this for us!
It's unlawful to use this where I live. Cyanide.
We had a natural gas oven in our HS Shop. We used a bone meal and charcoal compound for case hardening in our HS Shop. Very interesting video, with good information. Thank you.
Thanks
Good Morning Lyle, Great topic...yes more please...enjoyed..
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Thanks Mr. Pete for taking the time to show us this one more vote for the hardening and annealing of tool steel videos!
Yes
Thanks Mr Pete. These are fascinating videos.
Certainly interested in more content about hardening. I always enjoy your delivery.
Thanks
I heat treated parts for my motorcycle. I had to make a new mount for a larger gas tank. I used an old lawn mower blade that i heated red hot with a propane torch. After it cooled off I was able to cut it with a hacksaw and drill some holes to fit the mounting holes and the hinge for my solo seat. I heated the parts to red hot in a charcoal grill and quenched them in used motor oil. Not only did they turn black they were also rust proof. I also put them in the kitchen oven at 250 degrees for 1/2 hour and let them cool off.
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If you still have the trays you used for this, it would be interesting to try and bend one to see if it is brittle and breaks, or if it is harder to bend than the same material that had not been used in the furnace.
Funny you should mention that. I was thinking the same thing
@@mrpete222 If great minds think alike....🤔 Well, better than average minds anyway 😁.
Another brilliant video Mr Pete, thanks so much for this. Have tracked down a copy of the Tempil Chart and it will now go up in my workshop. Cheers, Alan.
Yes
Well done Lyle. Works great.
Once in the factory I worked in many years ago we case hardened a shaft using the cast iron chips from one of the planers.
Mr. Pete, you're a legend and I love your videos.🙂 In our workshop we now use the Cherry red compound. Just not the same as the Kasenit which works well.
Please do more on this. I have never really go my head around case hardening, annealing, and so on. I need educating!!!
I studied metallurgy and machining at Hillyards Technical School. Very interesting stuff!
Interesting process. We made a center punch in school and heat treated it. Neat stuff.
You mentioned the colors as steel is treated. I enjoy watching the progression from straw to blue and so on. Amazing.
Thanks again for the work you do for us.
Thank you, Mr. Pete. As I’m building experience in my machining hobby I find I need to learn lots more about metallurgy. I appreciate your contribution!
6 am I have my coffee and ready to watch
Excellent video, as always Mr. Pete! We would soak for many hours to get usable case depth, and then the part might be finish ground to size. We would also include a scrap piece of metal to check case depth on, by either breaking the scrap piece, or etching. If you have .030 to .045" case depth, when you break the scrap piece you can clearly see the hardened layer.
That was very interesting. Good video to get the old brain cells firing first thing in the morning. I noticed the instructions say .020” depth of hardness in 50 minutes. Also there is mention of nitriding which is also a surface hardening technique using gas. This is something that needed to be done after regrinding the old 4 cylinder Porsche crankshafts.
Porch used to see KREIDLER a german factory.. ( a moped factory),, they were (the excellence)..in IRON trans formatioj
Great video! Many memories brought back from my younger days. Had my own can of Kasonite to harden the frizens on flint locks.
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Another vote here for a "Metallurgy for Dummies" type of series. Watching a process can help understand it plus you have a knack for explaining what's going on and how not to hurt ourselves(and others) while doing it. Ever thought about teaching? :P
Thank you very much
theres a very good book by Verhoeven titled “Metallurgy for bladesmiths” widely available in pdf form thats very approachable and well written.
If you watched the video Rebar, you'd have heard him talk about going to the school he taught at at 6:00 AM to get the oven up to temperature before class. I think what he is doing here on his channel is also teaching and I'm sure more than one teacher recommends this to their students.
@@flick22601 Sorry, I was being facetious knowing full well he was a teacher for years. :)
@@Rebar77_real Now, I'm one of the kings of sarcasm and I couldn't figure out that you were just being funny. Think maybe I need to go back to school.
Fabulous! Interesting, crystal clear as to what is involved and in the practical doing. Something I have never done, but it sure looks interesting and super useful. Thank you for sharing!
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Very interesting and useful information. Thanks Lyle.
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This was a very interesting video. You are an awesome teacher!
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Really nice Job, Thanks for all you do, Its great to learn all this and your explanations are great.
Thanks
I took a structure and properties of engineering materials course in college and found the subject fascinating. Keep your eyes peeled for a textbook. As I recall, Machinery's Handbook has a good section on heat treating, etc. My first copy was a 1910s edition I bought in a used book store, which was great, but in poor condition, I bought an apparently unused one (circa 1984 copyright, 22 ed.) on Amazon from a bookstore for $20-something, perhaps.
Please do the hardening and annealing. I just had a monumental failure on a complicated part .....GNNNNNRRRR! I need to bone up as you put it.
Awesome Kennedy tool box!
Thanks Lyle, I enjoyed the process.
I have a jug of case hardening compound like that as well.👍
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Thanks for all the effort you put into these videos. Always learn some new!👍👍👍
Thank you very much
A point to remember is to use a dedicated fire brick to put the piece on as it absorbs the Kasenit and if you heat another piece of work on it you contaminate it and harden stuff you don't want hardened.
Haha! I like the not so subtle joke at the beginning-showing up to the school early 😂
Very Very interesting , waited for part 2 to come out so I can watch them back to back. Would be very intersested in the additional videos too.
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Lyle
Why not just start with harden-able steel (O-1/W-1/etc), then heat and quench to get it hard all the way thru?? Then anneal it to the hardness you want
John
Excellent thank you!!!!!
I would lone to see more case hardening videos, maybe a step by step how to, if you have ever seen a channel called "Click Spring" he covers the metal in some kind of goop, then wraps it in wire before putting it in the furnace, maybe you could go over that technique, thanks for the great video.
Yes, I watched that one
Ha! My brother was a shop teacher in Sheboygan Falls. I remember him telling me the story (must have been around the time they decided to stop teaching sentence structure and parsing). He was in the teachers lounge when they were discussing the topic and said to them "You can't teach a kid to parse a sentence in 3 years? Do you know what would happen to me if I couldn't teach a kid how to cut a board square in one semester?"
That’s a good one
I have 4 cans of Kasenit if anyones interested. Got it at an estate sale and knew to hang onto it.
I'll stick with using the crushed bones... 😈
At least in germany you can get C45 steel (1045 in the US?) for acceptable prices on ebay which machines nicely and surface hardens when you quench/temper it.
Thanks
very interesting! maybe you could do more, and a little metallurgy about why the steel is harder compared to softening with annealing. I'd like to make some punches and a hammer head
very helpful and interesting info
The carburizing compound in Kasenit is sodium ferrocyanide. So it's still a cyaniding process, but using a much safer compound than the sodium cyanide used before, much less likely to evolve hydrogen cyanide if things go wrong.
The ammonia smell comes from the breakdown of the ferrocyanide by heat. Normally, the reaction produces nitrogen gas in addition to the carbon monoxide that provides the carbon for the carburizing reaction itself. But if there is hydrogen around, it will evolve ammonia (NH3) instead of nitrogen (N2). There, I'd bet it's coming from water. Your Kasenit likely holds some humidity.
As a note, packing Kasenit into an air tight container with the part is not necessarily a great idea. The carburizing reaction does require oxygen to produce the carbon monoxide intermediary. Now, may be the steel reacts directly with the cyanide functions and it ends up working like a carbonitriding process.
Thank you very much for that detailed information
Love your video and knowledge .
Thanks
Did Mr. Pete just troll us all with a story ending in "not"?
I really started feeling for my English and math teachers.
If only we could still everything we could back when that ryerson book was printed...
Another vote for more heat treating (and such) videos!
There was a tin of this stuff in the metalwork shop at my school in the late 70s.
Kasenit is very corrosive if any is put back into the can after dipping.. The residue that drips from the part when hot likewise is very corrosive... Cheers from Louisiana Mike....
Thank you, good video !
I use the magnetic point
I thought the pronunciation was Kasin-it. I have a 30 year old ten pound can of it which is full and very rusty on the outside. Heat treating and tempering videos the way you explain things would be great.
I am versed in math & science so I would not be averse to seeing more videos on this subject. They would not have an adverse effect on me (or is that affect). ... Did I get that right? ... Clear as mud? ... Love your videos!!
lol
Yes, make more hardening videos
Gd I wish you could get KASINIT still...... Hasnt been available here for 20 years and I cant find anything to replace it..
I saw that disassembling of America videos. I found them fascinating and sad at the same time. Hey Mr. Pete if you get a minute check out my mini metal planer running that I restored. I think you'll really like it.
I just watched it, and really enjoyed it. That’s quite a machine
@@mrpete222 Thanks Mr. Pete. Appreciate it!!
He's wrong the arsenic is Not tge color case hardening done for guns,guns is done with carbon and bone dust as well but the part is buried in a steel retort full of carbon and bone duse,then it is sealed and put in the furnace and when you take it out and un bury it it has a beautiful multi color finish. Arsenic for guns was an old way to turn steel blue black but did nothing for hardening not coloring .I believe the casenit can be left in the furnace with the part buried in it ,he's trying to get maximum use from it
It loses magnetism now this is a theory but I'm guessing the atoms aren't in a stable enough form to be affected by the torrus of the electromagnetic fields from north and south pole
How did you keep a straight face going on about the English and Math departments showing up early?
I didn’t, I had to edit out my laughter in that scene
The Rifleman must not have been on that day
They didn’t put it on that day, they had to air a riot going on
@@mrpete222 “peaceful protest” 🔥
Is it standard practice to test if it has been quenched using your fingers 😝
Indeed
Is a non leaky metal bucket allowed for this procedure? or a leaky one is needed because... you know... magic and stuff...
My buckets got a hole in it. That’s a song
@@mrpete222 Oh, didn't know about it, I'll look it up
HI MR PETE.
Yes, please make the additional videos in this hardening, tempering and annealing series. You do a good job of explaining these things.
well now i know what my godfather had that 5 gallon pail of cyanide for he did alot of different metal working things
I missed out on one of our schools best shop teachers.Just prior to my freshman year the school discover that Dock Chilson was not certified in industrial arts after teaching it for close to 40 years. They made him step down and finish his career teaching math. He ran a tight ship and kept the kids and tools in their places. The new teacher opened the tool crib and read books while the boys ran wild. The shop was closed shortly after due to lack of tools and supplies.
I often wonder what I missed out on due to regulation.
Very sad story. But do not underestimate the stupidity of the administration.
@@mrpete222 I often wonder if the common sense that is imparted by working with your hands is what the administration fears the most and may be why they seem hell bent on eliminating shop classes. Thanks I know you are busy so no reply is needed.
Very sad story, guy put his life into that job
Accreditation always takes precedence over competence and experience.
@@bobweiram6321 I think that is not the case at the college level. Seems kind of bass akwards to me.
lol, you caught the annealing right as I thought it. "I have seen you astanding, but never annealing..."
Damn I love that! Can I use that line royalty free?
Haha, I see whatcha did there!
Hey Guys!, I know how to get Mr. Pete in trouble. Tell his wife that's he using her cooking pans.
Thanks for your videos, Mr.Pete. Since this carburizing compound is rather expensive, it might be interesting for your viewers to watch Clickspring in his video th-cam.com/video/V_Mp1fNzIT8/w-d-xo.html showing ancient carburizing methods. He used a cheap mixture of charcoal/salt/flour 6/4/3, made a putty of it, packed the part in this putty and covered it in clay. Very simple and obviously efficient. He also shows the steel structure changes in the hardened parts.
Thanks
Hello, great topic! Color case hardening is still done - Bobby Tyler at Tyler's Gun Works does it. To borrow for educational purposes, Mike Venturino states, "There are two basic types of color case hardening. One is done by a chemical process using cyanide. The other method consists of packing the part in a dry mixture, baking it to very high temperature and then quenching it suddenly in water. This second method is called pack hardening. It’s a lot more complicated than this paragraph might indicate."
Check out turnbull restoration, beautiful gun restorations including color case hardening.
I mostly do blacksmith stuff rather than machining. The way I have seen it done is to pack the part in bonemeal and then heat it
The trick to making it work is avoid the work piece making contact with the air before quenching. As Liberty points out it takes some planning to make it work. The results are beautiful when successful.
I love watching your video's nice job. Not by the book, but impressive results was using a heat treat oven and SS foil wrap. Making a pouch out of SS foil wrap I placed the Kasenit plenty of it into the pouch, put the parts into it, more Kasenit along with one piece of brown paper bag. Pouch then sealed. Heat treat to 1700 for enough time and Wham-o nice looking clean case hardened parts, yes the water quench is done tearing the bag over a bucket. The brown paper flashes off burning off the oxygen. Heat treated A2 in a pouch this way getting clean parts, no cleaning required. You take care, your a great teacher of the trade, Cheers!
Thank you for that good explanation
This is very informative and interesting, thank you Mr. Pete
As always, Thank you for sharing your time and many, many talents! Bring on the tool steel hardening videos!
Good morning chuck
Thank you for another great video. Perfect timing for my morning coffee and looking forward to the next episode.
Excellent video. I actually had one of the technicians in our lab explain this to me a couple years ago. After about 30 minutes of brain hemorrhage, I give up and left.
You might mention that in quenching a longer piece, like a punch or bearing driver, you need to thrust the object straight in the quench or it will warp the part along its axis. More lessons from the school of mistakes.
Warning duly noted.
God morning Mr. Pete, Good video and content. Something I will use in the future.
At work we have several different heat treat
methods. Nitrex for case hardening, in the
Tool Room they still have Brine treatment
which is highly poisonous.
When you quench, my Metallurgy book says
Instead of a slow figure 8, to vigorously shake and
or move the part around to create a lot of tiny
bubbles around the part. I can’t remember word
for word but that it’s supposed to help
We had to grind up charcoal to case harden our parts in school. You would pack it in charcoal, heat it, take it out, reheat it, and quench it in oil.
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@@mrpete222 that was over 20 years ago. I'm still using those parallels and 1-2-3 blocks!
Hi Lyle, I have just found this tip on the internet for making your own Case Hardening Compound, I will have to badger the neighbours to save their fruit stones. Regards from Australia. Try using the old gunsmiths trick, fruit stones heated until they change to charcoal, smash with a hammer until a fine powder then use as Kasenit.
Different fruits will give different colours.
The best bit is its free.
I need to buy a bushel of peaches
Wonderful as always Mr Pete thank you for sharing
Don't feel bad about caring for students, i had a math teacher at the university, he was so serious about his work he wrote the lecture in front of an empty amphitheater, I know this because the dean checked on him : why is so much silence, after the dean asked why he wrote the lecture he responded because maybe someone will come in the second hour and the pupil will copy what's on the blackboard. After that the dean checked again on him he was writing the second half of the lecture. I know this because the dean told us.
Interesting story
On a side note, I have an older flint-lock muzzleloader that wouldn't spark anymore. I read an old article that instructed how case harden the frizzen so it would throw sparks again. Essentially, take the old frizzen off and clean it. Next, wrap the frizzen in leather and then wrap it up real tight. Throw it an old soup can and then bend the mouth of the can closed to semi-seal the can. Throw the can and all in a fire for about an hour and then throw the can in some water. Next, remove the frizzen and clean it again. I did this about a year ago and it worked like a charm!
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Clickspring's channel has a few good vids on this subject, he's making files by hand.
Thanks
Mr. Pete I had Kasenit years ago but all I can get now is Cherry Red and it doesn’t work, I love your videos
Richard Rickmann: I have to disagree. I hardened a small lawn mower part with Cherry Red with a torch, and the part is file hard on the surface.
And if you wanna know how deep the case is, it might be possible to cut it on a grinder and then sand it clean and see the actual color change under a magnifying glass, It should look like a cake slice I think.
You would have to Etch With acid
We would use fire putty to seal up a container. Also throw a piece of paper inside the top of the lid. Reduced the oxygen in the can reduced the scale and wouldnt contaminate the furnace
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Hi Mr. Pete, 1000F is about 537C and 1700F is about 926C. With non contact IR thermometers today it is easy as you can select between scales F. C. or K. Do you remember the clay cones used?
I remember those cones
Looking forward to Part 2.
Thanks for sharing!
There is an excellent video on TH-cam where the ancient process of file making is investigated. He makes his own case hardening compound and shows the whole process. The channel is Clickspring ; the video title is : Antikythera Fragment #4 - Ancient Tool Technology - The First Hardened Steel. Highly recommended.
Thank you, I did watch that
We stayed so busy in metal class building panels, hay feeders, gates, fixing plows and other farm related things we never got to learn stuff like this.. I did have my butt case hardened several times in school and I do remember there was plenty of heat involved in the process.
lol
I would love to see all the videos you care to produce on the subject. Now is that “clear as mud”...lol.😉
I do want to thank you for this video. This is an interesting process I knew very little about. I am very interested in further videos on hardening and annealing.
Thanks
Thanks for yet another great edutainment video. I sort of remember doing this in metal shop about a million years ago. Had to come back for an edit. I remember now we made some chisels and case hardened them.
Yes, these things seem like we did them 1 million years ago