I watch TH-cam daily, I have seen every type of video you can think of. In my opinion this channel is one of the most informative and professionally put together channel's on TH-cam. Does anyone agree?
One thing that is fascinating to me is how sharp the transition is. If it were a simple diffusion process, I'd expect a much smoother gradient, with no sharp line visible. I am no metallurgist, but what I guess might be happening is that the reaction from austenite to martensite is the rate-limiting step here, with the diffusion of carbon through the already-formed martensite being a lot faster.
It is no wonder that blacksmithing were looked upon as magicians in the ancient world. Imagine the wonder that must have surrounded the blacksmiths shop when he was able to take salt flour and charcoal and produce a sword that would annihilate the bronze weapons that were also in use. No wonder blacksmiths were guarded and protected by the communities that had them, and often the object of kidnapping by communities that didn’t. Really, really excellent work. I am really enjoying this series of YTs. Thank you for taking the time to produce them.
There's nothing quite like seeing something clearly in the flesh. The way those test rods failed, and the picture perfect grain patterns across the breaks - exceptional. One of the best youtube videos I've ever seen, if not the.
Chris, watching this took me straight back to my mechanical engineering metallurgy/materials science class. The difference is I learned more about carburizing from your video than I did from a PhD metallurgist professor. Excellent presentation!
Same here! Metallurgy was such a complex field of study. Every metal composition has its own charts and behaviour. There are also so many different effects happening at different temperatures and different material concentrations.
Thomas Utley Seriously! I remember basically looking at charts and atomic structures the whole time! This video brought far more clarity to carburizing over any diagram or text book.
No shit, I subscribe to that, it took me months to understand the carburizing process back in college and how martensite forms, you explain it so well in 5 minutes. Comes to prove nothing is hard to learn, as long as you have a dedicated teacher that knows how to present the fucking information in an optimized way for easy assimilation. Learned more from several videos of blacksmiths on youtube than in 2 years of material study in college.
In the late 50's Metal Work class I took in High School, we made screwdrivers from mild steel and then case hardened the blade by dipping it into some white paste, heating it and then tempering it to a straw colour. That's all I ever learned until today's fantastic lesson. Now I can repeat the basic case hardening process and make my own leather-stitching needles. Thank You!!
yea I agree it's hard to compare..., stargate is one of my favorites, but that's mostly fantasy... and clickspring is the real deal... hey Mr click spring, check my channel, where I have added some tips to save money, these may come handy one day..
Nah mate, there is nothing on TV that could compare to this. That is a guess as I don't watch television anymore, I used to as a kid, but there is nothing but rubbish on nowadays. Besides the fact I have very little time to invest in becoming a professional couch potato 😂
Been years i’ve been looking for information on how to harden mild steel (basically add carbon). Never been able to find a complete information. This video is gold. Thanks a lot. Subscribed.
Austenite, martenite... I remember this from school. There's a whole complicated steel diagram but never during my school years have I seen such straightforward demonstration like here, with the four differently tempered pieces next to each other.
This is one of my absolute favorite channels on all of TH-cam! - High production quality - Concise information delivery - Provision of plans used - Unique content and projects Your content is gold, my friend. I am very happy that I found your channel!
I love how blasé Chris is..."I've made a set of hand-cut files...", like it's something you do of an afternoon when you're bored and have a couple of hours on your hands. Those files look awesome, mate - really nice, fine work there. ☺
It's astounding, really. He makes it seem so reasonable! If I made ONE FILE and it worked, I'd be ready to retire, I'd be showing to people for the rest of my life!
It's something that I do Not the files yet, but I've been a tinkerer and maker all my life, and I can see myself doing this same project in my home forge
I have to come back and say thanks again for this video. I've used this process several times now to harden some train spike knives and I just did a rather large axe head! :D Your videos are just excellent.
Multiple times since I've been in school for engineering I've thought, "man, am I even grasping anything that's going on?" Then I see videos like this, or conversations that I take part in, where I actually understand what's going on. Feels good to know I'm learning, even if it feel like I'm not sometimes
One of the key tool technologies that needs to be explored around the Antikythera mechanism is the simple hand held file. So this is the second of 2 Fragment videos relating to the making and hardening of a set of custom files, using materials and processes consistent with the period. Thanks for watching! The first video where I make the files can be found here: th-cam.com/video/SOw9WqMOHjA/w-d-xo.html
Wow, great videos as usual, but where do you get the new items? Every vid is a new subject and with firm background, but still interesting. I love your technique(s) and the way you show them.
Clickspring about ur clickspring fire piston, didnt u make an exact video like that before?! And what's up with this channel and make channel? Ur the same persons
@Toast 4 Unicorn TH-cam tells me that I already watched the fire piston video, so I'm guessing he republished it in coordination with the patreon discount for it.
This was really a great vid! lots of info, explained in an easy way to understand. I'm a gold smith and diamond setter from South Africa. I'm having trouble finding good quality tools. Planing on making a lot of my own hand tools. Thanks for posting this. It's going to be really help ful. BTW great job on those files!
This is the best explanation (and practical demonstration) of steel hardening I have ever seen. Makes perfect sense. I read somewhere that Ned Kelly used a crude form of hardening for his armour by heating in a fire to add carbon.
I have always been fascinated by how the tools are made that make the tools. This channel is quite the resource for anyone interested in iron-age technology.
Truly intriguing videos, I find myself sitting with my mouth wide open looking at all the amazing stuff you do and the way you present it. Keep it up, can't wait for the next video in line!
This was amazing to see! The center of the rods with the times and what you used to achieve this was absolutely reviling ! As a beginning blacksmith I learned a lot ! thank you for posting this.
well, I tend to agree, having said this, I suggest to take a look at my channel, where I have started to upload videos, I have already uploaded a tutorial for those spanish speakers regarding the use of the 3d modeling software named Rhino... I have also uploaded a few videos in english.... and I most say it seems like most of my videos will be in english... so don't get discouraged by the foreign language of the tutorial...
So long i have been waiting for a perfect and a well explained video of introduction carbon (carburizing) mild steel... Thank you very much for this beautiful video!
I started looking at the Antikythera mechanism and how you made it. Now I'm watching a video about hardening your own files... I must say your videos are highly addictive and that you've gone through a tremendous amount of work in order to make this machine with tools and methods available to the old greeks.
Based on the 1/4" rods you can basically make a chart to determine the length of time needed to heat vs thickness of any piece that you are working on in order to achieve the desired depth of carbonation. It's almost a better science than today's method for heat treating. Assuming that your layer of carbon and the layer of clay are always the same thickness...
Outstanding Chris!! This is the first time I see someone talking about case hardening and actually disclosing the method, materials and proportions in a clear easy to use way. I bet most machinists in TH-cam will just tell you to use Casenit and the process takes 4 hours for 0.8mm penetration - You achieved much more, with common materials. Bravo!!
Tried this method for case hardening a mild steel chasing hammer head I made, worked a treat! I used a steel box instead of a clay crucible, and fired it in an electric kiln for about an hour at 900°c. I used leather charcoal made from an old pair of work boots, it's definitely got a different texture to wood charcoal, though I couldn't say how the difference effects the hardening process. Love the old tech methods, thanks for sharing!
You make the most professionally produced, informative videos I have seen on TH-cam, the video photography is exquisite and narration and content captivating. I can think of many more superlatives to throw into this comment but I will just end it with a thank you.
I had foolishly thought the Antikythera videos would not be as entertaining and educational as the clock build videos.... silly me :( Super work Chris- well done mate!
Watching this project I got to say that I care way more about the way it could be (and most likely was) done than the project itself. I often ask myself what could be done without all the benefits of modern civilization.
Certainly not dumb - but the start would have been the observation that iron heated for a long time in a charcoal fire - something that would happen as a matter of course - becomes hard and brittle when quenched. Wrapping it in a charcoal paste and heating it in different ways would then be an obvious experiment. Just like Wrapping it in clay could have started as a way to stop the paste from burning off.
People have been very, very smart for a very long time. think of ancient greeks who thought up mathematics from thin air, of the theorems every single person uses in school and beyond to this day. How arriving at some solution requires you to use Pythagora's theorem for example. It's around 2500 year old concept. It's only the combined human knowledge that the smart persons of today push the boundaries further. They aren't necessarily any smarter at all, just have more information available. Standing at the shoulders of giants.
If you take an ancient greek human and compare the IQ with a modern human, it would be identical. Our Ancestors from 4,000 years ago were completely identical to us, only difference perhaps would be some enzyme in the gut. If you were to take an infant from 4,000 years ago, bring him to the present and teach him, it would turn out no different than any of us. The only difference is education. With modern tools we can condense information and we know more about stuff, thanks to the inventivity and experimentation of our ancestors.
It tempers the very brittle steel back to something that will survive the force of cutting. If I left them full hard, they would very rapidly chip and become blunt - thanks for watching and asking :)
Just to add, different oxides form on the surface of steel at different temperatures. It's an ancient way to gauge temperatures. Tempering softens the steel based on how hot you heat it. Yellow/straw is formed at a low temp ~200C, so it won't soften the steel much. Blue and Purple form at hotter temps ~300-350C and will soften the steel quite a bit.
The tang is heated blue because it's the interface with the user and experiences more flexing stress than other parts of the tool. It's made as soft as possible because it doesn't need to be hard, and softening it will make sure that undue stress will bend it prior to snapping it. Knife and sword tangs are done the same way.
I thought it just allowed for the atoms to rearrange themselves so that they're not clustered on the atomic level. That would later cause microscopic fractures and break?
@@JeepTherapy You are thinking of Nornalizing, which is bringing the metal up to a more critical temperature, then allowing it to cool in air. This causes the metal to "relax", as it were. Tempering, more or less, is normalizing on a very small scale. Bringing the temperature up to a far lower temperature, then allowing it to cook in air, normalizing it very very minimally, which relaxes some of the tightness caused by hardening.
Question! If you were worried about air why did you make a loose fit in the clay with a broomstick then drop the carbon wrapped file into it. It's isolated from the fire but is just bouncing around in that space full of gas. Wouldn't it been better to roll clay around the file tightly, no gap? I'm sure there's a reason why not. Thanks!
Space is required to permit expansion of the metal without cracking, the airtight seal is required to ensure that the carbon monoxide reaction remains in equilibrium - thanks for watching and asking :)
Compared to the carbon wrap there's almost no oxygen in the cavity around it. There's no problem if a little bit of the carbon burns. It uses up most of the oxygen immediately, then the reaction stays at a steady state.
This video was very educational. I always knew about carburisation but first time I understood how it really works after seeing those martensite rings. Thank you for your efforts.
That grain structure is quite large. I would recommend normalizing 2-3 times before quenching. The carbon will remain in the steel in this quick process and would greatly improve structure.
He was not making a modern file, but an ancient representation of files they would be using. AFAIK, tempering is the only normalization that was performed back then.
Richard Smith i do not believe tempering does anything to the grain. I'll have to check on that but still we can use out knowledge of normalizing to make a better tool even of it is old style .
@@nickwoo2 His intention was never to make a better tool, it was entirely about the abilities of the ancients. Ancient people didnt understand the complexities of normalization; they just knew that heating metal to a certain color, and treating it a certain way, caused it to get hard and brittle, or soft and malleable. His intention is to discover how they made such a fine and complex machine using only their ancient knowledge.
I learned more watching this video than I did in my mechanical engineering materials class/lab. you put some serious time and effort into this video and it shows.
I am too - The old texts are clear that common salt (NaCl) is essential for success, but are silent on its precise purpose. My guess is that it acts as a catalyst for the CO reaction, but I have no evidence to support that guess :)
@@Clickspring Super aAmazing Video and Great Insights!! I had the same Question, can You test it? Doing the same Process with varying Amounts of Salt? Also for the Carbon Source probably any Carbon can be used?
The demo you did with heating the various rods for increasing amounts of time is wonderful. I want to do this myself, and I have most of what I need to do it. Thank you so much!!
So could you basically use this dark coloured clay the way you used it to get high carbon steel for knifemaking out of a normal flat bar of soft steel? Hope you understand what I mean. Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I have absolutely no clue about metalworking but want to learn it step by step.
You could, but as good as the results were for the ancient world, today you'll get a much better result for knifemaking with the modern alloy steels - thanks for watching and asking :)
Why leather charcoal instead of wood? Also, could you take a small item and do the process for say 120 - 150 minutes. Would that completely convert it to steel?
Tim Fox Uniformity of carboni think. Leather has been processed to be pretty much all one material (fibourous skin structures) whereas wood contains many more materials, lignin, cellulose etc
Its hard to be sure on this Tim - Animal based charcoal is specified in all of the old texts that I tracked down, but the actual reason for using it in preference to simple wood charcoal is not specified. Color case hardening of gun parts uses animal based charcoal too, and apparently the use of wood charcoal attenuates the color effect - so it would appear that there's a lot more going on in the chemistry than is immediately apparent - thanks for watching and asking mate :)
except it isn't pure carbon, everything has impurities, apparently the impurities in animal-based carbon work better than the impurities in plant-based carbon.
I used this clay: shop.walkerceramics.com.au/AA21/Feeneys-White-Stoneware-~10kg-NEW/pd.php I don't have any experience to compare, but it performed the task well :)
When you first started this series I wasn't sure it was going to be as engaging as the clock series. Glad you proved me wrong! These really are among the best videos on TH-cam, your content, narration and production are all absolutely spot on.
You're a genius! I've been looking all over for such a process as this! Does it have to be charred leather or could I use any source of carbon? I've got a lot of dry palm fronds.
Great, informative video, with each step broken down in a clear way. Thanks! Simple processing that appears within the skill and knowledge of our ancient forebears. I am in awe of the prior centuries of fire-workers and metalworkers who discovered, by trial and error, each effective component of the process. And discarded or replaced those prior components which were less effective or completely ineffective.
Interesting formulation for the carbon - source - never seen or tried that one. usually use a mix of charcoal and bone meal I think it is. Yours certainly seem super effective. That was a great demo.
@ Clicckspring Many thanks, it's absolutely the cheapest, simplest and safest method for case hardening the small custom chisels, gouges and others steel tools I use in my jewelry work.
Rewarding find - beautifully presented with smooth flow of information that is not superimposing (like possibly 99% of videos here for great regret), no unnecessary thrills and bravado but superb video and audio quality, well articulated narration that is pure pleasure to watch, easy on eye and soft on ear, one that I'd never too tired to observe, learn from it and to ponder, contemplate and deliberate inspired by! Great food for one's thoughts! Bravo!
As best as I can tell, its a catalyst for the CO reaction, but I haven't been able to track down a definitive answer on that yet - thanks for watching and asking Mathew :)
My thought is that salt is used in cooking to improve the structure of dough - which is what you make with flour and water. So it makes sense that it would have been added at some time to stop the paste from cracking. It probably then was found to improve the hardening.
I know as a kid we sometimes made "play dough" out of flour, salt and water. When left to dry it went hard and could even be painted. So maybe it's mostly used for its shaping properties? (and flour sure doesn't hurt when you want carbon around)
This stuff is fascinating, I've never really seen any historical media do this sort of thing. It adds a lot to history to give practical demonstration of these methods and this entire project really makes you think about the impressive knowledge that was required to construct a device like this.
Yes, similar to that. Ours here in the UK do not have bread or yeast though, just pastry. The way he prepares the case-hardening samples from 3:00 onwards reminds me of them.
Love it! You often see old artifacts that are amazing, but what often gets overlooked is how many simple tools we take forgranted today had to be invented to make the major artifact possible.
This is the video I watched most out of all on youtube, gonna try this on a knife I am making. Thx clickspring, this is a very clear informative video!
I watch TH-cam daily, I have seen every type of video you can think of. In my opinion this channel is one of the most informative and professionally put together channel's on TH-cam. Does anyone agree?
I do for sure.
i have three degrees in mechanical engineering from MIT and I agree.
someone just some days ago told that This channel is must to watch, i agree
You need to watch dude who go to the jungle and do everything from scratch.That was awesome too.I forgot the name of channel.
@@Grewyd do you mean Primitive technology?
Seeing that crossection of the snapped rods was just awesome. I've never really looked into case hardening before, I have uses for this. Great video
Thank you Ben :)
I agree. I had an involuntary jaw drop looking at the cross sections :)
What carbon content in % will you get from this process? And will it always be the same?
I was wondering NHIL, what would be the effect on black powder, if it was made with leather char.
One thing that is fascinating to me is how sharp the transition is. If it were a simple diffusion process, I'd expect a much smoother gradient, with no sharp line visible. I am no metallurgist, but what I guess might be happening is that the reaction from austenite to martensite is the rate-limiting step here, with the diffusion of carbon through the already-formed martensite being a lot faster.
It is no wonder that blacksmithing were looked upon as magicians in the ancient world. Imagine the wonder that must have surrounded the blacksmiths shop when he was able to take salt flour and charcoal and produce a sword that would annihilate the bronze weapons that were also in use. No wonder blacksmiths were guarded and protected by the communities that had them, and often the object of kidnapping by communities that didn’t. Really, really excellent work. I am really enjoying this series of YTs. Thank you for taking the time to produce them.
There's nothing quite like seeing something clearly in the flesh. The way those test rods failed, and the picture perfect grain patterns across the breaks - exceptional. One of the best youtube videos I've ever seen, if not the.
Thanks Mitch, terrific to have you watching :)
I love how the ringing sound of the rods breaking go higher and higher pitched signifying the material hardness change.
I was so glad that came up on the audio too!
Thanks for bringing that up; I totally missed that the first time around!
I was hoping someone else caught that. The pitch difference was amazing!
Yea, I noticed that also. So cool!
If TH-cam is a river, then this channel is a gold nugget.
Chris, watching this took me straight back to my mechanical engineering metallurgy/materials science class. The difference is I learned more about carburizing from your video than I did from a PhD metallurgist professor. Excellent presentation!
Ha ha! Thank you mate!
Same here! Metallurgy was such a complex field of study. Every metal composition has its own charts and behaviour. There are also so many different effects happening at different temperatures and different material concentrations.
Thomas Utley Seriously! I remember basically looking at charts and atomic structures the whole time! This video brought far more clarity to carburizing over any diagram or text book.
I felt the exact same way looking back to my engineering classes. Keep making these great videos!
No shit, I subscribe to that, it took me months to understand the carburizing process back in college and how martensite forms, you explain it so well in 5 minutes.
Comes to prove nothing is hard to learn, as long as you have a dedicated teacher that knows how to present the fucking information in an optimized way for easy assimilation.
Learned more from several videos of blacksmiths on youtube than in 2 years of material study in college.
In the late 50's Metal Work class I took in High School, we made screwdrivers from mild steel and then case hardened the blade by dipping it into some white paste, heating it and then tempering it to a straw colour. That's all I ever learned until today's fantastic lesson. Now I can repeat the basic case hardening process and make my own leather-stitching needles. Thank You!!
Great to have you watching mate :)
You are far better than most tv shows available. Thanks for your very hard work.
Thank you Julio, I appreciate your encouragement mate :)
yea I agree it's hard to compare..., stargate is one of my favorites, but that's mostly fantasy... and clickspring is the real deal... hey Mr click spring, check my channel, where I have added some tips to save money, these may come handy one day..
S op nm
Nah mate, there is nothing on TV that could compare to this. That is a guess as I don't watch television anymore, I used to as a kid, but there is nothing but rubbish on nowadays. Besides the fact I have very little time to invest in becoming a professional couch potato 😂
this must have been a fun one to do on a wintery night watching the flames flicker and enjoying the warmth of the fire
It really was! thanks for watching :)
Absolutely the best channel there is on TH-cam, hands down...
primitive technology is pretty dope too
no doubt.
I'd love to see a "Primitive Technology"/"Clickspring" collaboration video
Especially since they are both in Australia.
Joe Sax you obviously haven't seen AvE
Brilliantly explained and skillful execution! This is a top notch video, congratulations
Been years i’ve been looking for information on how to harden mild steel (basically add carbon). Never been able to find a complete information. This video is gold. Thanks a lot. Subscribed.
The professor they all wanted to have. You are the divulgator of knowledge for excellence. I'm touched. Thank you
Austenite, martenite... I remember this from school. There's a whole complicated steel diagram but never during my school years have I seen such straightforward demonstration like here, with the four differently tempered pieces next to each other.
I cannot believe you don’t have more than a million subscribers. You’re brilliant. Our community thanks you.
This is one of my absolute favorite channels on all of TH-cam!
- High production quality
- Concise information delivery
- Provision of plans used
- Unique content and projects
Your content is gold, my friend. I am very happy that I found your channel!
Terrific to have you watching mate :)
Absolutely EXCELLENT WORK 👌
Cracking the clay open is so satisfying!
I love how blasé Chris is..."I've made a set of hand-cut files...", like it's something you do of an afternoon when you're bored and have a couple of hours on your hands. Those files look awesome, mate - really nice, fine work there. ☺
It's astounding, really. He makes it seem so reasonable! If I made ONE FILE and it worked, I'd be ready to retire, I'd be showing to people for the rest of my life!
Really. He's like "Let me show you how to boil water so that you too can make oatmeal or hardboiled eggs." 😊
It's something that I do
Not the files yet, but I've been a tinkerer and maker all my life, and I can see myself doing this same project in my home forge
I have to come back and say thanks again for this video. I've used this process several times now to harden some train spike knives and I just did a rather large axe head! :D Your videos are just excellent.
You make the best videos on TH-cam. No hyperbole.
Multiple times since I've been in school for engineering I've thought, "man, am I even grasping anything that's going on?"
Then I see videos like this, or conversations that I take part in, where I actually understand what's going on. Feels good to know I'm learning, even if it feel like I'm not sometimes
Great to have you watching Weston :)
Staggering video. You have explained the basics in just 8.47. In a way that everyone can understand. Thank you.
One of the key tool technologies that needs to be explored around the Antikythera mechanism is the simple hand held file. So this is the second of 2 Fragment videos relating to the making and hardening of a set of custom files, using materials and processes consistent with the period. Thanks for watching!
The first video where I make the files can be found here: th-cam.com/video/SOw9WqMOHjA/w-d-xo.html
Wow, great videos as usual, but where do you get the new items? Every vid is a new subject and with firm background, but still interesting. I love your technique(s) and the way you show them.
This is really superb stuff. Thank you so much for sharing :) I love the nerdy details.
Clickspring about ur clickspring fire piston, didnt u make an exact video like that before?! And what's up with this channel and make channel? Ur the same persons
@Toast 4 Unicorn TH-cam tells me that I already watched the fire piston video, so I'm guessing he republished it in coordination with the patreon discount for it.
This was really a great vid! lots of info, explained in an easy way to understand. I'm a gold smith and diamond setter from South Africa. I'm having trouble finding good quality tools. Planing on making a lot of my own hand tools. Thanks for posting this. It's going to be really help ful. BTW great job on those files!
The time, labor, and research that this project required, boggles the mind.
I am in awe.
Terrific to have to have you watching mate :)
This is the best explanation (and practical demonstration) of steel hardening I have ever seen. Makes perfect sense. I read somewhere that Ned Kelly used a crude form of hardening for his armour by heating in a fire to add carbon.
Now that would be a good video... Great to have you watching mate :)
I have always been fascinated by how the tools are made that make the tools. This channel is quite the resource for anyone interested in iron-age technology.
Very interesting. I love all of your videos, and especially this one!
Thanks very much Ben :)
Your level of commitment to this project is astonishing.
Truly intriguing videos, I find myself sitting with my mouth wide open looking at all the amazing stuff you do and the way you present it. Keep it up, can't wait for the next video in line!
Thank you mate, more on the way :)
This was amazing to see! The center of the rods with the times and what you used to achieve this was absolutely reviling ! As a beginning blacksmith I learned a lot ! thank you for posting this.
This hands is down,worth the wait for!QUALITY CONTENT
limbofence Unfortunately those channels with the cheap content get most of the clicks.
well, I tend to agree, having said this, I suggest to take a look at my channel, where I have started to upload videos, I have already uploaded a tutorial for those spanish speakers regarding the use of the 3d modeling software named Rhino... I have also uploaded a few videos in english.... and I most say it seems like most of my videos will be in english... so don't get discouraged by the foreign language of the tutorial...
What an historical lesson of tools ! Applauses and callback. Thank you very much indeed.
So long i have been waiting for a perfect and a well explained video of introduction carbon (carburizing) mild steel... Thank you very much for this beautiful video!
So pleased you enjoyed it mate :)
I have one more question can a knife made of mild steel be through hardened like this?
I started looking at the Antikythera mechanism and how you made it. Now I'm watching a video about hardening your own files...
I must say your videos are highly addictive and that you've gone through a tremendous amount of work in order to make this machine with tools and methods available to the old greeks.
Woooooo clickspring uploaded a video!!!!
Now I don't have to watch the clock series for the 5th time. Awesome video!
When I watching your video I want to be a blacksmith.. Your videos are stunning with high image quality. Thank you
Based on the 1/4" rods you can basically make a chart to determine the length of time needed to heat vs thickness of any piece that you are working on in order to achieve the desired depth of carbonation.
It's almost a better science than today's method for heat treating.
Assuming that your layer of carbon and the layer of clay are always the same thickness...
Outstanding Chris!! This is the first time I see someone talking about case hardening and actually disclosing the method, materials and proportions in a clear easy to use way. I bet most machinists in TH-cam will just tell you to use Casenit and the process takes 4 hours for 0.8mm penetration - You achieved much more, with common materials. Bravo!!
Thank you Jose!
So. Awesome.
Thank you mate!
Tried this method for case hardening a mild steel chasing hammer head I made, worked a treat! I used a steel box instead of a clay crucible, and fired it in an electric kiln for about an hour at 900°c. I used leather charcoal made from an old pair of work boots, it's definitely got a different texture to wood charcoal, though I couldn't say how the difference effects the hardening process. Love the old tech methods, thanks for sharing!
This was absolutely amazing. Again. And the hammer hitting the clay... mmmyees!!
and cracking them open really was as much fun as it looks! Great to have you watching mate :)
You make the most professionally produced, informative videos I have seen on TH-cam, the video photography is exquisite and narration and content captivating. I can think of many more superlatives to throw into this comment but I will just end it with a thank you.
This was a key way if making armor defeating arrow heads and spear tips. Good video.
Also used to surface harden wrought iron steel swords.
I know someone has already said this but. "This is hands down the best and most informative channel on TH-cam"
Thank you mate, very much appreciate your encouragement :)
The files are part cow now
Yes different from the udder ones I use...
These comments always put me in a good moooooood
should we milk this?
Chris, any type of mooooovie that you film is interesting!
That would be a good moooove.
This is the best case hardening video I have seen. Thank you for this very helpful video. I love your projects!
I had foolishly thought the Antikythera videos would not be as entertaining and educational as the clock build videos.... silly me :( Super work Chris- well done mate!
This is fantastic! The quality of production the information imparted all first class!
Watching this project I got to say that I care way more about the way it could be (and most likely was) done than the project itself. I often ask myself what could be done without all the benefits of modern civilization.
Without a doubt, the best video I have ever seen, in all the years I've spent time here.
Simply mind-blowing! Well done.
Thank you mate, terrific to have you watching :)
This is amazing! How did people in the past figure this stuff out!?!? They were certainly not dumb as we like to pretend they were.
Certainly not dumb - but the start would have been the observation that iron heated for a long time in a charcoal fire - something that would happen as a matter of course - becomes hard and brittle when quenched. Wrapping it in a charcoal paste and heating it in different ways would then be an obvious experiment. Just like Wrapping it in clay could have started as a way to stop the paste from burning off.
People have been very, very smart for a very long time. think of ancient greeks who thought up mathematics from thin air, of the theorems every single person uses in school and beyond to this day. How arriving at some solution requires you to use Pythagora's theorem for example. It's around 2500 year old concept.
It's only the combined human knowledge that the smart persons of today push the boundaries further. They aren't necessarily any smarter at all, just have more information available. Standing at the shoulders of giants.
If you take an ancient greek human and compare the IQ with a modern human, it would be identical. Our Ancestors from 4,000 years ago were completely identical to us, only difference perhaps would be some enzyme in the gut.
If you were to take an infant from 4,000 years ago, bring him to the present and teach him, it would turn out no different than any of us.
The only difference is education. With modern tools we can condense information and we know more about stuff, thanks to the inventivity and experimentation of our ancestors.
Probably smarter than people today. Idiocracy is real ;-)
It might have taken ten thousand years!
Awesome video! The fact that these techniques were known so long ago blows my mind.
Three videos on the same day!? I must be dreaming :D
Intonasi suara yang ramah.
Sangat informatif.
Detail dan berurutan.
Memberi keyakinan.
Pekerjaan sulit jadi tetasa mudah 😁
what is the significance of heating the completed files to a straw color and a blue color on the back end?
It tempers the very brittle steel back to something that will survive the force of cutting. If I left them full hard, they would very rapidly chip and become blunt - thanks for watching and asking :)
Just to add, different oxides form on the surface of steel at different temperatures. It's an ancient way to gauge temperatures. Tempering softens the steel based on how hot you heat it. Yellow/straw is formed at a low temp ~200C, so it won't soften the steel much. Blue and Purple form at hotter temps ~300-350C and will soften the steel quite a bit.
The tang is heated blue because it's the interface with the user and experiences more flexing stress than other parts of the tool. It's made as soft as possible because it doesn't need to be hard, and softening it will make sure that undue stress will bend it prior to snapping it.
Knife and sword tangs are done the same way.
I thought it just allowed for the atoms to rearrange themselves so that they're not clustered on the atomic level. That would later cause microscopic fractures and break?
@@JeepTherapy You are thinking of Nornalizing, which is bringing the metal up to a more critical temperature, then allowing it to cool in air.
This causes the metal to "relax", as it were.
Tempering, more or less, is normalizing on a very small scale.
Bringing the temperature up to a far lower temperature, then allowing it to cook in air, normalizing it very very minimally, which relaxes some of the tightness caused by hardening.
at last someone showing how case hardening works and its history very well done thank you very much
Question! If you were worried about air why did you make a loose fit in the clay with a broomstick then drop the carbon wrapped file into it. It's isolated from the fire but is just bouncing around in that space full of gas. Wouldn't it been better to roll clay around the file tightly, no gap? I'm sure there's a reason why not.
Thanks!
Space is required to permit expansion of the metal without cracking, the airtight seal is required to ensure that the carbon monoxide reaction remains in equilibrium - thanks for watching and asking :)
Compared to the carbon wrap there's almost no oxygen in the cavity around it. There's no problem if a little bit of the carbon burns. It uses up most of the oxygen immediately, then the reaction stays at a steady state.
Perhaps could purge the clay cavity with CO2 or some such before sealing up?
Greg Feneis, why? Some carbon will burn with the oxygen and turn into the very same CO2 (and CO ;)
This video was very educational. I always knew about carburisation but first time I understood how it really works after seeing those martensite rings. Thank you for your efforts.
That grain structure is quite large. I would recommend normalizing 2-3 times before quenching. The carbon will remain in the steel in this quick process and would greatly improve structure.
He was not making a modern file, but an ancient representation of files they would be using. AFAIK, tempering is the only normalization that was performed back then.
Richard Smith i do not believe tempering does anything to the grain. I'll have to check on that but still we can use out knowledge of normalizing to make a better tool even of it is old style .
@@nickwoo2 His intention was never to make a better tool, it was entirely about the abilities of the ancients.
Ancient people didnt understand the complexities of normalization; they just knew that heating metal to a certain color, and treating it a certain way, caused it to get hard and brittle, or soft and malleable.
His intention is to discover how they made such a fine and complex machine using only their ancient knowledge.
I learned more watching this video than I did in my mechanical engineering materials class/lab. you put some serious time and effort into this video and it shows.
How to get a subscriber, be like this dude.
Legend, and an Aussie!
Unparalleled patience. Great skill. Good attitude. This is just a pleasure to watch.
This was very cool. Subscribed :)
I am curious what purpose the salt has in the carbon-mixture.
I am too - The old texts are clear that common salt (NaCl) is essential for success, but are silent on its precise purpose. My guess is that it acts as a catalyst for the CO reaction, but I have no evidence to support that guess :)
@@Clickspring Super aAmazing Video and Great Insights!!
I had the same Question, can You test it? Doing the same Process with varying Amounts of Salt?
Also for the Carbon Source probably any Carbon can be used?
The demo you did with heating the various rods for increasing amounts of time is wonderful. I want to do this myself, and I have most of what I need to do it. Thank you so much!!
So could you basically use this dark coloured clay the way you used it to get high carbon steel for knifemaking out of a normal flat bar of soft steel? Hope you understand what I mean. Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I have absolutely no clue about metalworking but want to learn it step by step.
You could, but as good as the results were for the ancient world, today you'll get a much better result for knifemaking with the modern alloy steels - thanks for watching and asking :)
Thanks for answering my question :)
You are a consumate professional, absolutely fascinating to see the process involved in literally everything you do. Bravo!
Nice video. What is the purpose of salt in the mix?
I'm glad someone like yourself doing this research.
When they take back to the Stone Age we're going to need knowledge like this...
Why leather charcoal instead of wood?
Also, could you take a small item and do the process for say 120 - 150 minutes. Would that completely convert it to steel?
Tim Fox Uniformity of carboni think. Leather has been processed to be pretty much all one material (fibourous skin structures) whereas wood contains many more materials, lignin, cellulose etc
Its hard to be sure on this Tim - Animal based charcoal is specified in all of the old texts that I tracked down, but the actual reason for using it in preference to simple wood charcoal is not specified. Color case hardening of gun parts uses animal based charcoal too, and apparently the use of wood charcoal attenuates the color effect - so it would appear that there's a lot more going on in the chemistry than is immediately apparent - thanks for watching and asking mate :)
Clickspring Perfect charcoal would be 100% carbon. grinding is going to remove any large scale structure that might be different. Still confused.
CorwynGC ya it doesn't make sense. Ground up carbon is ground up carbon
except it isn't pure carbon, everything has impurities, apparently the impurities in animal-based carbon work better than the impurities in plant-based carbon.
The quality of production, narration and dedication in your videos is simply jaw dropping!
why charcoal from a leather, not from wood?
Because Why Not
I could watch your videos non-stop this is the best channel on TH-cam
Awesome video, as always =D
A question: what kind of clay is the white clay that you used for the other shell? It's looks very nice and malleable.
I used this clay: shop.walkerceramics.com.au/AA21/Feeneys-White-Stoneware-~10kg-NEW/pd.php I don't have any experience to compare, but it performed the task well :)
Clickspring Great, thanks mate!
When you first started this series I wasn't sure it was going to be as engaging as the clock series. Glad you proved me wrong! These really are among the best videos on TH-cam, your content, narration and production are all absolutely spot on.
Thanks very much Chris, I appreciate you sticking 'round :)
You're a genius! I've been looking all over for such a process as this!
Does it have to be charred leather or could I use any source of carbon? I've got a lot of dry palm fronds.
Great, informative video, with each step broken down in a clear way. Thanks!
Simple processing that appears within the skill and knowledge of our ancient forebears.
I am in awe of the prior centuries of fire-workers and metalworkers who discovered, by trial and error, each effective component of the process.
And discarded or replaced those prior components which were less effective or completely ineffective.
Interesting formulation for the carbon - source - never seen or tried that one. usually use a mix of charcoal and bone meal I think it is. Yours certainly seem super effective.
That was a great demo.
ChrisB257 the bone meal ads phosphorus
@ Clicckspring Many thanks, it's absolutely the cheapest, simplest and safest method for case hardening the small custom chisels, gouges and others steel tools I use in my jewelry work.
Ah, the ole's file inside the cake trick. Do prison guard's still fall for this?
Rewarding find - beautifully presented with smooth flow of information that is not superimposing (like possibly 99% of videos here for great regret), no unnecessary thrills and bravado but superb video and audio quality, well articulated narration that is pure pleasure to watch, easy on eye and soft on ear, one that I'd never too tired to observe, learn from it and to ponder, contemplate and deliberate inspired by! Great food for one's thoughts! Bravo!
so interesting
Clickspring you are making such a Great work!! These side videos of the new Project are as interesting as the principal ones! Thank you so much!
So pleased you are enjoying them mate!
man, the last time I was this early, I had to be kept in an incubator for a month...
Haha good one
hands down my favorite channel on TH-cam, thank you for what you do.
Why add salt?.
As best as I can tell, its a catalyst for the CO reaction, but I haven't been able to track down a definitive answer on that yet - thanks for watching and asking Mathew :)
My thought is that salt is used in cooking to improve the structure of dough - which is what you make with flour and water. So it makes sense that it would have been added at some time to stop the paste from cracking. It probably then was found to improve the hardening.
I know as a kid we sometimes made "play dough" out of flour, salt and water. When left to dry it went hard and could even be painted. So maybe it's mostly used for its shaping properties? (and flour sure doesn't hurt when you want carbon around)
This stuff is fascinating, I've never really seen any historical media do this sort of thing. It adds a lot to history to give practical demonstration of these methods and this entire project really makes you think about the impressive knowledge that was required to construct a device like this.
What if you made bread from that carbon flour dough?
That would be a high carbon diet :-)
Chris, your excellence has inspired me to try to do better at everything I do. Thank you.
I bet you can make great sausage rolls.
goose183 as in Worstenbroodjes?
Yes, similar to that. Ours here in the UK do not have bread or yeast though, just pastry. The way he prepares the case-hardening samples from 3:00 onwards reminds me of them.
goose183 that sounds pretty good. Is it a flaky pastry?
one of your best videos. diverse, detailed, educating, beautiful. thanks for sharing.
Love it! You often see old artifacts that are amazing, but what often gets overlooked is how many simple tools we take forgranted today had to be invented to make the major artifact possible.
I have no knowledge of any of this, but its nice to listen too while im eating. Good stuff.
I never stop seeing this video never getting bored of it .
Wow, who can do this, apart from Clickspring! Huge kudos to you, sir!
This is the video I watched most out of all on youtube, gonna try this on a knife I am making. Thx clickspring, this is a very clear informative video!
This video is such a eyeopener for every craftsperson .... love this channel
This is probably why favourite video yet. This process is just so incredibly fascinating!
Martensite...wonderful explanation. Most enjoyable demonstration. Thank you kindly, good Sir.