Entry Level vs Super Bike
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.พ. 2023
- Is a $14,000 MTB 20x better than a $700 MTB? Let’s find out.
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#MTBTest #mountainbike #Bikereview - กีฬา
Now Check out this one (3 Bikes, 3 Riders, 1 Choice): th-cam.com/video/Yxp6Y0xkBv0/w-d-xo.html
So, I’m not going to buy a $14k bike and I’m not going to by a $700 bike. They are clearly different bikes. I would like to see the performance difference between $1500 and $3500.
or atleast a common entry lvl FS Bike, like a t7/t8 stumpjumper, or a stance
@@Cj032188 Agreed. Personally I would have appreciated seeing how a 14k bike does against a $1500-2000 bike with a little less weight and a capable front fork. I highly doubt it would be 10 times better!
Those sub $1K bikes aren't "twice a year" bikes. I have over 11,000km on a one year old Trek Marlin that's used for trail riding and primary urban transport. Why a "mountain" bike for transportation? Our path system is garbage and road bikes can't hop obstacles, etc. These entry level bikes are durable and the consumable components are inexpensive. Replacing a cassette for me is $20, not $300. Cranksets with new chain rings are $30. A new rear mech is $30 if I smash it, but my original one is rocking it out, thanks. For a lot of people, cycling is about inexpensive transportation and fun.
I love all of this! Much Respect John & thank you sharing.
700$ isn't entry level.
There's a glut of good used bikes out there that should be the "entry level" introduction to new riders.
I feel exactly the same, forgetting a $14,000 bike or full suspension mountain bikes for a moment and compare this Cannondale to a 90’s MTB, a lot of bike for the money and lovely construction.
It’s all down to what you want to do, and these are definitely not twice a year bikes, I was out every weekend on my F400 in the 90’s at my local off road track.
And I still have it!!
Would be interesting to see what a $4000 bike is against a $14000 bike.
The difference would be minimal, assuming comparable bike type. A $4000 trail bike would mop the floor with the BMC at Sandy Ridge (the trail system they're testing on), Sandy Ridge is mostly rowdy DH trails with a paved fire road for your climb.
GCN has some videos to that, but I think more gravel stuff.
Agree on upgrading-but really-the 10 seconds advantage of the BMC costs 13,300-that’s 1330 dollars a second………
In a real life situation. If I had just hammered on a 5-6 minute section of trail on a Superbike like that, then turned around and saw the guy on the entry level was basically on my ass the whole time!? I'd be embarrassed.
Honestly, its more damning than that. its a pretend mtb vs a bike literally designed for nothing but going fast on trails. And still only 10 seconds?
@@fiatfixie4344 embarrassed. And asking myself a few questions
With the chain falling off I imagine it was more than 10 seconds on the whole ride. 😂 but let’s ignore that.
I think tests like these aren’t very scientific, I imagine the % difference becomes larger when the distance increases. Carrying a more heavy bike with less comfort will wear on you, riding for 5 minutes won’t capture that properly.
Look at it like this, the high end bike is going to hold together over months of riding and as you improve will handle everything you through at it. that being said I wouldn't pay that much but again I'm a hardtail guy and my top end hardtail only set me back $4500 and handles everything I do.
"Entry level" is not "garbage"... well said.
A 1x clutch derailleur system would go a long way on the C-dale.
Deore M5100 11 speed will get you 11-51 on the regular HG freehub.
These are brilliant suggestions!
Microshift advent X, 10 speed, 11-48 is another great budget upgrade for this bike.
@@samc.8616 I guess Cannondale 8 freehub support 7 speed only.
@@marciooki5820 It's 11-34, which has me leaning towards HG driver, I don't think the old freewheels can go that big on range, it's a Sunrace cassette but OEM only model
@@mrvwbug4423 yes my friend.i can't agree more.
But i don't said that's a freewheel...
I got myself the same bike and I can say upgrade is impossible if you don't get a complete new wheel set.
Seems you're getting more confident on the trails and jumps
I would upgrade the drive train. I had a similar bike and the fork was the same, not good but it works. The drive train held me back more than the fork did because of the constant gear skipping, loosing the chain and having to service it way more than my current bike. The frames are surprisingly sturdy on those entry level bikes. I love aluminum bikes.
Microshift is pretty hit or miss on their drivetrains, their 2x stuff is meh but they actually make pretty good 1x drivetrains, especially the Advent X 10 speed which is a perfect upgrade for an entry level hardtail. Dropper is also a huge upgrade for these bikes
the trail 8 is the kinda bike that will always hold a spot in my heart. it's a great bike for people trying to get into the sport but it an also teach people how to work on their bikes and upgrade and overall get them accustomed to mountain biking.
Just purchased one yesterday (July 2024) at REI for $530. Honestly don't know the last time I have purchased a new bike. YEARS!!! But for my use, I am not an avid true mountain biker by any means but to me the perfect entry level mt bike with disc brakes, nice components, etc. Will I be going down a beast of hill in the Rockies, NO. For my light trail/park use it will be perfectly fine to ride with my boys. To have REI Tune it before rolling out of the store and to tune it for the first year is a nice extra too. I scoured marketplace for used bikes and for their cost of older ones and potentially worn out components, I felt for a couple of hundred dollars more to get a brand new one. I did NOT want to go the Walmart/Academy Sports avenue either! 🤢
Series idea: Affordable Mountain GOAT. you upgrade the Cannondale with entry level only parts, max 10 speed and see how badass you can make it. Test it on group rides and see if any fellow riders know any hacks or tips or can loan parts for making a bike better without breaking the bank.
To be honest, bikes companies have gotten out of control. There is no way a bicycle, yes a bicycle cost this much. $14,000 -- shit, I can buy a BMX motorcycle for that kind of money and way more have gone into designing, engineering, and building of a motorcycle then a bicycle.
I can buy a brand new 2025 Honda CRF450R dirt bike for less than this and almost have enough leftover to purchase a 2025 Honda small trail bike! Way more engineering and cost into a modern 4 stroke Motocross bike than a 25 lb bike?
@@TN_HondaDad You are 100% correct there. It i snuts what the cycling industry has become.
I own a Trail 8. So far, I've replaced the fork (did the SR Suntour fork upgrade program), a 1x drivetrain (had to replace the rear wheel because the one that came with the bike only supports a 7 speed cassette), and swapped out the mechanical disc brakes for a set of mt200's with 180mm rotors. It's been a pretty decent bike - it got me out on the trails.
The C-dale, as others have mentioned, 1x decent drivetrain (Deore), cheap air fork, and some Shimano mt420 (or higher brakes). Oh, and tubeless. Those few things would make a huge difference
Should have got like a Giant Talon with a 1x, air fork and hydraulic brakes to give the entry level category a better shot. Good video though, I always love these comparisons.
First, a Manitou Markhor fork, then a Box 3 Prime 9 drivetrain, and a Raceface Aeffect Cinch crankset with a 32 tooth steel Cinch chainring. Use the tires and wheels til you wear them out. With that quick release seatpost, do you really need a dropper?
The Cannondale would respond well to upgrades, a dropper, 1x drivetrain (Microshift Advent 10s or Shimano Deore 10 or 11s would work well) and tubeless conversion would go a long way even with the suntour fork, and an entry level air fork like a RS Recon would be a massive upgrade. Also funny seeing you test an XC bike at Sandy Ridge, that's not really a trail system that screams XC haha, that's more of an endurobro paradise, though Quid Pro Flow would probably be a good test loop for seeing how a bike handles tech climbs and pedally rock gardens.
The 8 deserves some better shifting and a clutch. Dropping a chain can be a total mood killer for anyone. Get a microshift advent X on there for a simulated budget upgrade.
6:45 from this point on all I was thinking about is how it could be upgraded!
1. $250-$300 on a Rock Shox Yari fork
2. $400 on a SRAM NX drivetrain.
3. $150 on a PNW dropper post
4. $25 on a shorter stem
Been using my Decathlon RC100, a ~300 bucks road-ish bike converted to gravel with wider wheels.
Been doing great on light trails.
Nice comparison!!! I’d change, seat, fork, and tires first. Then run it again
My suggestion is don't go over the brand. For $700 you can easily buy a XC bike with great geometry, air suspension fork + Thruxel boost + 1*11 or maybe 12 setup...
I volunteer for an org leading rides for ppl in recovery and we’ve got a couple Microshift Trail 8s as loaners. I keep em washed and tuned but so far I have an equal number of compliments and complaints, which is to say zero. And I appreciate that.
I got a Cannondale Catalyst 2 from 2018 (bought it like year and a half ago but only recently could start using it a lot for commuting and light trail, want to get more off-road once I build more stamina) for 400 USD (in Chile). Comes with Altus 3x9, same fork as the one in the video and hydraulic brakes.
Doing small upgrades ATM, better and wider pedals (came with plastic ones) and a stem that fits me better. Having slight shifting issues but using the Rd until it dies then getting a Deore 9 speed derailleur. FD has been reliable so far. Gonna use the fork until it collapses then upgrading to an affordable air fork. Getting wider tires when the ones it has wear off (27.5x2.1, getting 2.3 or 2.4 later) but not sure about tubeless since tubes are really easy to just swap if I get a puncture and I'm far from home.
In general I'm pretty happy and looking forward to the incremental upgrades which will make the bike truly feel like it's mine :D
No idea how sensible these upgrades are but the bike is similar to the video one and getting budget in consideration (and not upgrading too much before I get into shape myself hahaha) those are the ones that make sense from my point of view.
I work at a Cannondale dealer and I have mixed feelings about them. I do like that they come with Shimano (and some with Microshift)parts over SRAM. I think one of the first things that would make the bike more enjoyable for a lot of people would be swapping the entry coil fork for something with more adjustment. It would also help shed some of the weight. It would be nice if it was through axle instead of quick release but there is nothing wrong with that. I haven’t seen a pedal fall off of one yet though so that is new. Definitely a worthy bike to upgrade if that is what the rider is wanting to do.
Or just buy a higher end C'dale bike of the Trail series - even the Trail 1 now runs around $2000. It would still be seven times cheaper than the XC bike tested, and offers a worthy moderate trail riding experience.
Great video.. Thank you.. 👍
So, first of all a shout out to Tektro brakes. They are inexpensive and very reliable. Ask any mechanic in a bike shop if they have had issues with any of Tektro's brakes and you would get a solid "no". Their mechanicals, hydraulic and the TRP cable actuated hydraulics are pretty damn good. Throw a RockShox REBA on that Cannondale and some Microshift components and you have something.
I have a trail 6 I bought last spring and have done some upgrades to it, for other people wondering about the lower end trail series.
The drivetrain is straight up terrible, I replaced it with a 1x9, black ops crankset and actually nothing fancy, a sunrace 9 speed cassette, shifter and derailleur. Cheap stuff, massive improvement.
I do kinda miss having a 2x, being able to drop a chainring to climb was nice. However I don’t miss the endless issues I had with the stock setup eating into my frame and struggling to shift even not under load.
I replaced the fork with a fox 32 performance, a fork that costs as much as the bike. It’s just that it’s substantially lighter, and having a lockout as well is a great addition. Probably a bit overkill, but the front end weight is noticeable and lightening it up helps a lot.
Some ergonomic stuff, different saddle, grips, shorter stem, spank oozy 780mm bars, personal preference kinda stuff. I actually use the stock saddle and bars on a second bike because they’re fine.
The tires on mine from the factory, same WTB option, wore out very fast. Less than 200 miles. I got onza porcupines for a specifically off road tire, though I also have kenda happy mediums which I switch to from time to time, they’re much better on asphalt and still pretty ok off road. The porcupines are exclusively off road tires.
That’s a lot in hindsight for a cheap bike. But I think it’s worth it. It fits me well.
Doing upgrades to a cheap bike like this over time can absolutely be worthwhile. I don’t go mountain bike every day, and I’m not going super hard. I don’t need a high end bike, but I want some of the features that cheap bikes don’t have.
For sure the drive train and saddle. I’m sure you have another seat laying around. than the fork, than maybe the stem bar combo. Go Deore 11x pretty cheap right now
Great vid 🏁🏁
Thank you Player!
All those OEM bits (stem, HBs, SP, wheels...) are HEVVY. Compare the cost of upgrading the Cannondale to buying a different bike that solves those problems out of the gate? How much does THAT bike cost?
I think you sould reduce some weight of the cannondale and change the fork, next wheel-set and the maybe handlebar and seatpost (carbon?)
How about upgrading the Cannondale’s fork, the pedals, and maybe a dropper post?😀
If you put one or two of your stickers on the BMC is it worth more? Is it faster ? I surmise yes it is the trail 8 first upgrade stickers 😅
The 1x craziness...
It gives me some mixed feelings because bigger chainrings mean more speed - obviously. The issue of weight, I'll take that as a training encouragement...
I'll take the Trail 8, give it 10-44 in the rear and 48-35 in front.
To me, my bike should be able to go... any and everywhere.
How bout compare the 17k bike with a 17k e-cross motorcycle, they should cost around the same.
KTM's eSX should be about that money.
Obviously you need to make a drop bar gravel bike out of that Trail 8!!
Dunno, you could throw a midlevel fork and upgrade to deore 1x and still have enough to buy a really decent FS bike. Then you would have 2 bikes. Heck still enough to get a rad used SS too. So many options with that kind of coin.
Hey, what's wrong with quick release?
Get a better saddle and suspension seat post, then get a new set of front forks and swap out the cassette for an 11 speed 11/52 with an 11 speed shifter, you will need a wolf tooth derailleur extender to reach 52 teeth and an 11 speed chain then your budget bike will be good to go. You should be able to get all this done for less $500.
Put a RockShox Recon Silver. Great fork for an entry level that works as it should.
7:26 That was underwhelming! I was expecting something like "Beaurice Monteclair Biclicletta" or something along those lines. And, by the way, very well-put-together video!
in no particular order
1. go tubeless for a better ride
2. air fork , you'll shed a bunch of weight
3. drivetrain, 1x10 deore with a narrow wide chainring
4. hydraulic brakes, even entry level Shimano will make a huge difference in stopping
Upgrade the rear derailleur. Hopefully to one with a clutch. Or the fork
Lol the AXS removes cables and the silly lock outs add more back.
Add marzocchi dirt jumper and formula hydraulic breaks it must be fun 😁
Did BMC not start out as Bob’s Mountain Company before being bought out and the name changed but the initials maintained?
What happened?!?! in 2019 For $50 less than the cannondale I got a hardtail with 100mm rockshox air fork, Shimano Hydraulic Disc Brakes, and Deore XT Drivetrain!?
Drivetrain: 1x with clutched mech will be a game changer for bringing that bike into the modern era
Fork upgrade to something mid-tier?
Lastly, gotta add the dropper.
ooh yeah
I got the connendale trail 8 for my wife back in 2021 she doesn't use it much so I did this bike a favor and upgraded everything but the wheels. 120mm fox fork a 32 1x11
203mm rotors hydrologic 4 piston caliper new bar and stem rockshox dropper post. Sram derailleur and shifter. Skinwall maxxis tubless. bet she's gonna rude 10 times better. Cus it sux. Good for a ride at the park
LOVE THIS!!
Well I did upgraded the cannondale I went with 140mm travel fox factory.
Bike turned out to be way better than I expected for me. Bike performed so good. I was able to climb areas I couldn't clear in my specialized bike. I'm not a TH-camr but I did upload a video of it. She looks nice.
A better bike in most cases means someone had more money than the other guy, not necessarily more skill
you can get hugely better value with a trek marlin 5 for 700 bucks, obviously not the only bike that destroys the cannondale's specs
Tires and wheels first! and fix the rattling plus whatever causes the drivetrain to fall apart so much
I didn't know Truman Capote was a mountain biker
Hope you stopped in Sandy for Joe's donuts!
Fork, dropper and tires would be where I would start. I don’t believe in upgrading drivetrains until they are broken.
For me, i would like to spend $700 hardtail mtb to upgrade some parts and it is worth it in money rather than buying expensive one.
My life is in your hands 🤣
Drivetrain to a 1x just to eliminate literally any chain drops. Second would be the suspension to better the ride experience and drop weight. Third would be the brakes since they seem to work decently. Lastly in my opinion wheelset whenever the originals need replaced
Yes,you can't upgrade the gears without changing the wheels
@@marciooki5820 Depends on the freehub body. If it's 35mm, you could possibly upgrade to an Advent Acolyte 8 speed drivetrain.
Did someone say donuts?!!?
Bet upgrading fork and wheels would change the ride a ton and still cost less than the BMC.
yeahhhhhh! Upgrade...wheelset, front fork, 1x, groupset and a few carbon bits here and there. Get this bike's weight to single figures in kg and your in business.
not a fair comparison, the cheap one wasn't even a full sus.
I've been using my bike that is only $350 mountain bike (about 15,200 pesos) I always use it for trailing
Where’s this fun trail!!
Sandy Ridge on Mt Hood
So the chain drops wasn't just with me 😂
as a professional thief I really do appreciate the quick release system♥ stop hating it
Maybe upgrade the fork, something that could lock out would probably be nice... Might even help balance it out so it isn't as front-heavy.
Also definitely upgrade whatever was rattling 🙉
That rattle was so bonkers 😖
I think you're going to find by the time you upgrade wheels, tyres, fork, headset, brakes and drivetrain, that you could have just bought a slightly better bicycle.
Decathlon has a good range and for 2400 euro you get a carbon full suspension
Just throw on a better fork, wheelset & drivetrain. I did this on my $800 Carbon frame MTB (Felt 9) & built a sub 18lb beast for under $3k using quality parts. I could have gone cheaper route but didn’t want to risk safety
Trail se1 would have been a more interesting comparison I think.
Sandy Ridge??
That Cannondale is meant for gravel/recreational use
Aren't all cannondales 😂
My friend took that exact same bike down a double black trail at our local trail system. He made it down in one piece surprisingly, just very very slowly.
Only 10 seconds..... This proves it's not "the bike" 100%.
Upgrades to the Cdale- gears first, budget 1x. Then fork, then wheels.
Real talk 🎉
Damn if my bike made those sounds I would be praying to the bike gods not to kill me
What one is the best? Somewhere in the middle....neither are realistic for the vast majority of MTBers out there.
I ride the first gen Ibis Ripley LS but also own a T29 (Tranny). I'm actually not an Ibis fanboi, actually Santa Cruz but I only currently own a Chameleon for SS riding. BUt my Tranny29 does that too in carbon. However, my brother-in-law owns a Giant Fathom 29 that he bought for around $1500. My wife has a Trek Xcaliber that we got on discount for $1200, and I'd say once you get over the $1k mark, you start getting into some great trail capable stuff that you can beat on. I am very impressed with the Fathom 29 even w/ the Giant branded fork, wheels, and Tektro brakes. The Shimano Deore, Praxis crank, Minion/Aggressor WT tires setup tubeless stock.
That bike can handle some stuff and keep going. Its on a short list "$1500 or less MTBs you can truly get rad on"!
I agree mid price is the key!
I'm over here with a $200 mtn bike like dayummm
The mechanical brakes… wait til summer and they overheat on a long descent
Upgrade the Trail8 to 1x to keep the chain from falling off. That would get annoying really fast. Gotta be hard to let go of that BMC.
For their part of the world, any old trail bike is going to be more fun than a $14,000 XC race bike. PDX area is not really XC riding, it's endurobro paradise
@@mrvwbug4423 I just like the simplicity of a 1x setup. I’d be happy with a Marin San Quentin as my all in one XC/Enduro whip.
@@mrvwbug4423 now I’m going down the Trail rabbit hole. 👌 love your handle btw.
@@tevemullins8156 I use an Ibis Ripmo AF as my "everything" bike. I also have a Giant Talon hardtail, but that is basically just a trainer bike now. I've actually done a XC race on my 35lb Ripmo and placed decently in my class
700 bike is probably just for city cruising :-) But for 1200 you can get something with full 1by deore, decent fork with locking etc :-)
Stoic 2 (in US, not sure if its the same in EU) is going for under $1k right now.
Spend a little more for a soft tail. No reason to spend that much money on the BMC unless you're competitive.
For $14000 it better have wings!
Xc racer vs Trail bike ? High speed flowy trails is xc territory, bring it to Moab or Arizona then time it.
>14 000 bucks
>Fox 32
😂😂😂😂
Meanwhile Sam Pilgrim is riding a bed down those trails…
What's wrong with quick release, it's quick!
That trail is not really the ideal type terrain for either of those bikes. Would be interesting to see them on some tamer xc trails
Now you know it can handle that stuff ;)
Dropper number 1
Forks
Chain set
Actually no it’s a hard tail. Gota have full suspension. (Woooo contraverciallllllllll)
Comparing these bikes is like comparing Winston to a Doberman
in Indonesia such bicycles are only $200
could get a sold 3000-4000k dab or enduro (which is what i would get) and spend th rest on some bike to donate.
Air fork, clutch derailleur, 1X - good times
You might say that a $4000 bike would be 20 times better.... Fork on the Cracknfail is my vote.
Player getting a lot o airtime🛩️
Well, this sort of comparison is kind of a no-brainer for results. The C'dale has inferior components through and through, and even if it had more competitive parts, it's a hard tail, and you're comparing it to a full suspension bicycle. Since you have a top level XC full suspension bike, it might be more informative to buy a similarly spec'd top level hard tail for comparison. The high end hard tail would still be considerably less expensive than the top level XC bike, and comparing the two rides would narrow things down to hard tail vs. full sus. for trail riding.
A good air fork with lock out will take a lot of weight off the front end and hydraulic brakes will be well bellow the cost of the other bike and make things more competitive……I’d buy the 700 dollar bike still…..
You need to be crazy to spend 14k on a bike !
Once is sure, it will hurt you 20x times more every scratch on 14.000 piece
Very surprised that the BMC was only 10 seconds faster.
XC race bike out of its element, Sandy Ridge is enduro trails, not XC trails