My RESPONSE to TWO SET VIOLIN | More DARK SECRETS of the VIOLIN INDUSTRY
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 พ.ย. 2024
- ◾ Commenting on one of latest videos made by TWO SET VIOLIN (Exposing dark secrets of the violin industry) and adding some of my own personal experiences as a violin maker.
I'm clearly not used to making these kind of videos so I'm sure I made some mistakes and some things came accross differently to what I originally intended, but hopefully you get the overall idea 😅.
In case some clarifications might be neccesary I'll be happy to make them 😊
I also forgot to say some things so if you're interested let me know in the comments and I might write them down!
Original video by Two Set Violin:
• Video
Article mentioned in the video (How to Choose a Violin: 7 Expert Tips from a Luthier):
www.myluthier....
◾ Commentando uno dei ultimi video fatto da TWO SET VIOLIN.
◾ Comentando uno de los ultimos videos de TWO SET VIOLIN.
Original video:
• Video
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🎥🎻Online violin making course: obrienguitars....
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The idea of these videos is to give a "realistic" view on the whole process involved in making an instrument and not just the "fun" part, as well as showing how much attention to detail and time is necessary during every step of the construction.
These videos take a long time to make so comment, like, subscribe if you like them so I know to keep making more!
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◾ OTHER MEDIA:
♦ www.lucasfabro...
♦ Instagram: / fabroviolins
♦ Facebook: / ns
Lucas Fabro - Violin maker in Cremona / Liutaio a Cremona / Luthier en Cremona
I'm clearly not used to making these kind of videos so I'm sure I made some mistakes and some things came accross differently to what I originally intended, but hopefully you get the overall idea 😅.
In case some clarifications might be neccesary I'll be happy to make them 😊
I also forgot to say some things so if you're interested let me know in the comments and I might write them down!
I know I'm late but I think it was great and you have earned a subscriber! I don't know much about violins but this may be my chance to learn
Thank you very much for your comment :)
I don’t think you’re late at all! Haha
I’m happy you enjoyed it and to be helpful in this learning process :)
Are you „Tea Set Violin“?
@@uweschollmeyer9409 Hahaha, loved the comment!
Thank you for offering your open and insightful views on the subject.
As you are a luthier, I would love to see a video from you comparing the difference in sound between:
1. A poorly made, but plausible looking violin
2. A basic violin that is set up properly
3. A well made violin that is Not set up properly
4. And finally, a well made violin that is set up properly.
I believe the lack of ability to understand those differences is what makes finding an instrument such a challenge, and of course opens the door to fraud and overpriced instruments.
My first violin teacher wouldn’t teach me because I hadn’t bought my violin through his friends shop, but purchased a secondhand violin from my cousin. I ended up having to find a new teacher with only 3 weeks experience 😂 lucky for me that I got a secondhand violin because I ended up changing to cello within the year.
Wow! That's definitely another story for the list...
Guess he ended up losing not only the commission but also the client haha
Hope you're enjoying playing the cello and thanks for your comment :)
@@LucasFabro Well at least it wasn't the viola LOL (TSV joke).
Sounds like “dodged a bullet” to me!
I find it interesting that most of these videos are violin makers and not instrument stores. I also think it is such a small industry that regulation for transparency is near impossible.
Thanks for your comment!
To be fair on them, I'm sure they're pretty busy as well and they don't really have to. Also, same as there are many luthiers and only a pinch use TH-cam I'm not really sure if there are shops that are actually active (should probably check that haha). That being said I'd love to hear their stories as well.
I completely agree! It's such a small industry that regulation for transparency would probably only harm the small shops/individual makers and the only ones to survive are would be those who can afford to skip/deal with the regulations.
I've only seen response videos from people who active TH-cam channels, I don't think any stores have what I would call an "active" TH-cam channel.
Yes, that's exactly what I tried to say but you did it in a much better and clearer way, hahaha. So thanks for that!! :)
I love his complete and fancy tea set XD
Thank you very much!
I actually wanted to put an arrow and text saying that I was having “silver needle” but then I forgot 🤦♂️😂
That set is amazing looking indeed and quite large. Cleaning and upkeep must be a nightmare!
@@Hingspiration Thank you! It's quite large that one. I have a smaller one that's the one I use for shorter or individual sessions (yeah, I know that the one on the video was individual as well, but I had to find a place to put the tablet hahaha) or while I'm working.
I guess I'm so used to now that I don't find it annoying the cleaning and upkeep, although I have to admit that as it's on the workshop and it obviously gets dusty very quickly then I have to make sure that it's clean every time before I use it which is a bit annoying haha.
Thanks for your comment!
Nobody:
Me, a Chinese: dayyymmmnnn that’s pro level tea set!
Hahaha, I like my teas, what can I say? 😬🙃
Thanks for your comment :)
I totally second that! /envy :D/
Same!!
haha I read that as pro LEVI tea set
I came from twoset channel. I’m happy to know another channel of an expert in the musical field.
Thank you very much for your comment and I’m happy about that :)
My grandmother couldn't bring her cello with her when she left her boarding school, when she went back to pick it up, it turned out that her teacher had taken it home, and died, so she couldn't get her 200 year old inherited cello back. It grinds on me, what sort of teacher would do something like that? Nice to get an inside view on this industry here, an interesting reaction video!
That's crazy!! Although it sounds like that was not only her teacher, but also the teacher's family or something like that!
Thanks for your comment :)
@@LucasFabro I think you're right about the family, thank you for the reply!
Too late now, but you go to the life and complain of theft. The family returns it or can be charged with handling stolen goods. What a pity.
When I started to learn the violin I asked my teacher after 6 months if I should continue to rent or buy a violin. Like a set for beginner’s around 600€. She told me not to buy the beginners set and instead to buy a violin from her. She told me her violin would be worth 3000€ but she would sell it to me for 1000€. I trusted my teacher and thought it’s a good Deal. Short after our deal she passed me to another teacher and left the music school. One year later I had to take this violin to a violin maker to get some small things fixed. By the way I found out that this violin was worth maximum 200-300€ . She has tricked me so hard. Same story happened to my friend who’s teacher tried to sell her an overpriced instrument. It’s just a shame. How can you use your own students to make some profit?😤
I'm really really sorry to hear this and thank you very much for sharing your experience!!
I guess it's one of those cases of "if it's too good to be true, it probably is"
It's unbelievable to think that people can do that...also because if they're already getting payed for the lessons in a moral way, is it really worth doing that, risking losing that the student stops coming and maybe even damaging their own reputation?
I guess that unfortunately easy money is a strong incentive for some people and some get away with it all their life :/
Thanks for your comment and I hope you're well!
@@LucasFabro thx for your concern. I learned my lesson the hard way, I guess. Bought my current violin from a luthier and it’s a great Instrument with a beautiful sound. After this bad experience I wouldn’t recommend anybody to show interest in any private sale. Especially if you have no experience like I had.
@@jasminhacker7243 That's good to hear!
I'm glad that you're happy with your current instrument :)
That tea set made me want to join him watching TwoSet videos
Hahahaha, it's a big tea tray and was using a big Gaiwan, so there's definitely some space for people to join!
Thank you for this. I suppose that the musical instrument sales traditions have always been the same. Like the Skating world or the Tennis world there is this autocratic attitude borne by teachers to their students. My Mother was a professional singer and she studied and worked hard. One time she was taken to Denmark and she met Mrs. Grieg. Mother had been working on Lieder and loved Grieg and Brahms especially. She was asked by Mrs. Grieg to sing a few of her husband’s Lieder for her. In her delight she gave my Mother some copies of some unpublished manuscripts.
Mother moved to New York to work at the Met. A well known singer befriended my Mother and she asked her about her European study experience. Mother in her star struck enthusiasm told her about the manuscripts. The Older singer asked if she could take them to look at. Of course Mother being trusting gave her them. The Singer promised to return them and promised that she wouldn’t sing them at a public performance. A few days later Mother read in the NY Times that this person was singing a performance of some unknown Grieg lieder just discovered.
Mother never got the manuscripts back. The singer told her:”Don’t be so trusting next time.”
Thank you very much for sharing your story and I'm sorry to hear that it's not one with a great ending. However, as well as it's true that there are some really shady things in this environment and people who want to take advantage of others or some particular situations, I must say that there are also some really good and honest shops, dealers, teachers and makers! (So it's not all lost haha)
Thanks for the comment! It helps the channel a lot :)
This was really informative. Definitely keep making these types of videos. If anything, your perspective is very valuable.
Thank you very much for your comment and I'll try to! :)
Many years ago a parent came to our music school with two violins (one of German origin and one French). The parent asked the orchestral conductor (who was a significant violinist also) to try the to help decide which to buy for his daughter. When my friend played the first it sounded ok but a little muted the second was rich with beautiful overtones. This was the recommended instrument. My friend however said the other instrument would probably better serve the child as they would have to work harder to produce a good sound. There was also a very large difference in the price. Five years later, the young lady had become a good violinist and my friend suggested it was time for her to move to a more compliant instrument. Always a good idea to ask a player to try the instrument(s) before making a purchase.
Hi! Thanks for your comment!!
I definitely agree with that, but I'd only add that it's much much better if the other musician playing it has a similar style and technique as the person who's interested in purchasing the instrument!
I've seen many times musicians who don't find themselves with a certain instrument or sound and they literally struggle to produce a nice tone with it, but then the same instrument sounds lovely in the hands of a different musician.
Olaf did a similar video with agreement with this viewpoint. I also agree with this assessment of this situation.
I switched from violin to trombone because of issues with my string teacher. He was a well known violinist and orchestra leader but had a miserable temper and insisted that the instrument dealer the school used didn't have quality instruments, we should buy from his cousins shop. Some students did buy their violins from him but I switched to the trombone. My sister changed to the coronet and trumpet. The instructor for brass instruments was much more inspirational and just as famous.
I bought my violins from a luthier and one I bought from a Facebook market place and was a very lucky find which was an antique French violin sold to me by someone who obviously knew nothing about violins for a very cheap price but a very valuable violin.
I’m glad you hear you had a good experience!!
@@LucasFabro I have also had an opposite experience buying a "German" instrument that had a fake label and was only worth the rubbish bin. Didn't know what to do with it until I had the guts to smash it.
Wow, your Chinese tea table and tea set look legit! Very professional.
Thank you very much :)
Hopefully it is! Hahaha
it's funny how most comments are now turning into tea ones :p
it is not a commission, this is an extortion racket. thank you for a very informative video.
awesome! zero dislikes yet. the crooks haven't found this.
Haha, I guess that gets to prove that the TH-cam community can be really great! That and the fact that I’m a very very small channel 🙃
First one just arrived 🙌😂
I'd definitely be interested in your opinion on old versus new instruments. Personally, even though I love making new instruments as well as the whole idea of it, I would always prefer an old instrument myself. Right now I'm playing my new cello instead of my antique cello, but that's partly because it needs playing in and because quite frankly it's probably more precisely made and sounds better in many ways, which I'm utilising to grow as a player on either of the two. However, when comparing new and old cellos of very similar models and craftmanship, I have always felt more attracted to the older one. It's not so much just because it's old, but often you can feel that the cello has been through many hands, and at a good level of instrument, it's been played by great players too. And all these people have played the cello in for you, and the cello guides you somehow and "wants" to vibrate in certain ways. It frustrates me as a scientist that I can't more accurately pinpoint what happens, but I definitely think that your playing shapes the instrument (well, that I know from playing in a few new and old cellos), and in turn that old cello can shape your playing. That for me, combined with the additional texture of very old wood in the sound, is worth all the problems that come with playing an old instrument.
Please do convince me otherwise, that would be much cheaper for me once I go shopping for a Testore instead of a house one day :-P
Guess I’ll eventually make a video about it then, because I’d already have enough material for one just by answering to your comment haha.
But I’m not sure I’d be able to convince you, a Testore is still a Testore and it’s not like you’re going to live in a house...oh wait 🤦♂️😜
Exactly, right? I mean, if I had that one cello I'm thinking of, I would honestly not mind playing it on the street. I had the good fortune to play a pretty solid lineup of old and expensive cellos a few times. Absolutely hated a few of them, but especially a certain small Testore and a very loud Bernadel grew on me quite quickly! It's a bit sad, because I almost think of one of them every day, yet I have no way of buying any of them. But you know, it is what it is, at least I have a goal for my own cellos which will keep me building forever before I get there :-P
But seriously, I think it's a very interesting topic, and I have tons of opinions myself based on what I like and what I've played. I do like new cellos, don't get me wrong. Now, I'm sure I would love yours, but the best I think I have played so far is one made recently by Yann Besson, do you know him? Very big model, which I will happily admit inspired me to make my second cello on the Vuillaume mould as well, but try an arching more similar to the Besson. One great thing about new instruments is of course that they're "clean" in terms of playing experience as well as healthy and reliable. Consistency should not be overlooked, it is definitely worth considering when making that decision. I like a bit of fighting with my instrument, but not too much!
Hahaha, well, you could play on the streets for some time and eventually get your house as well (?
I agree that’s a very interesting topic, and it’s not that I’m an old instrument hater either, but I do believe that for most people a modern one is the best option!
Guess I’ll really have to think about a script about this now 😅
At least with all your comments you give me ideas as well haha
Haha, you're welcome ;-)
And no, I really don't think one is better than the other or that I don't like new instruments. Like I said, I have actually been playing my new cello exclusively since I finished it, even before I git the setup to sound as good as it does now. But for me personally there is just something about the age that speaks to me enough that I would usually prefer it if given the choice. Lots of disclaimers here, I think you know what I mean, right? :-P
I'll be looking forward to it whenever you decide to film it anyway. I do enjoy hearing other opinions, and even better if thy change mine! At the very least, I think having a broad understanding of your choices and the advantages of each is very important in any situation.
I would be interested in your reasons for liking modern instruments more.
I guess I’ll be preparing that video rather sooner than later then 🙃
I imagine a lot of this can apply to almost any niche profession or hobby. Especially the part about investors coming in and manipulating prices.
Probably! But at the same time I don't want to be negative and say they're all bad. So on a more positive vibe I also have to say that there are great people and investors who made it possible to many makers, musicians and artists in general to make a career! I wouldn't like to imagine how the world of classical music would be if it wasn't for some people who support both small and big orchestras, as well as professional and young musicians 🙃
Hi Lucas, I just stumble upon your video through my TH-cam algorithms, and this gave me a good insight about violin making and how to spot the difference. I may be not a violin player, but I do understand how important to always check your violin with your local luthier. I am looking forward as well to get my own violin in the near future. Everything that I have learn from this video is also applicable somewhat with piano buying.
PS: I am also a 2set fan
Haha, yeah, the almighty TH-cam algorithm. Seems to have gone mad for this video a week later after I posted it haha 🤷♂️
I’m glad you found it useful I really hope you have a good purchase :)
I think it applies for most instruments to be honest, and I’d almost dare to say for every business hahaha.
Thanks for your comment!!
@@LucasFabro I will try to check you store online soon and consult you as well if I am about to buy my first violin.
I don’t really have an online store as I’m just an individual maker and mainly working under commission now so making around 5-6 instruments a year top (this year will be 4 if I’m lucky because two of them are cellos). But feel free to message me and ask me about any instruments you see around and I’ll be happy to help :)
@@LucasFabro Thank you so much! I will add you on my social media as well..
@@CrescentiaSonate Great! No probs :)
I’m usually more active in there as well so go ahead!
Woah, I am so glad that I went directly to a luthier to buy my instrument. He was so patient and let me have an extended tryout period to ensure I liked it enough to invest that amount of money 💰. The maker is William John in London.
Funnily enough, I did browse in some shops and the violas I liked best were made by William John, but dimensions not quite right for me.
It was also fascinating to visit his workshop and see his work in action.
It’s good to hear some of the nice stories as well! And as a maker (or at least in my experience as a maker haha) let me tell you what even a musician comes the workshop and you can show it all the process and you can see that the person really appreciates it and that way gets to appreciate the instrument even more, then that’s probably one of the nicest feelings you can get in this profession.
OMG I AM WATCHING THIS WHILE DRINKING OOLONG WITH MY GONGFU TEA SET TOO WAOOWWW ---- WHAT ARE YOU DRINKING???!
Sorry I am so excited but when you do future videos you should talk about the tea you're gonna make too :DDD that gaiwan is so BEEFY! And I thought mine was big, haha
Hahaha, Initially I actually wanted to talk more about it but I figured who’s gonna care and as the video was already quite long decided not to include that. But I really wanted to put an arrow and name of the tea that I was having and completely forgot about it! Anyways, it was a “simple” silver needle which I love and also didn’t want to brew something too complicated or that I don’t have often or else I’d have been focusing on the tea instead 😂
What oolong were you having?
Thank you very much for your comment!
@@LucasFabro I would LOVE to watch a video just about tea! I love tea so much but unfortunately, a good quality loose leaf tea is hard to come by in my country, therefore I try to make the best with my little cast iron teapot (which I cherish with my heart). Now you know you'll have at least two viewers for tea related videos :D
@@mariaanmo I still have some small projects I'd like to finish but after that I'll make sure to post some videos having some tea while violinmaking so stay tuned ;)
I'm curious to know where you're based now though!
Good video.. many times bad /overpriced/ fraudulent purchase have happened.. best way to purchase is to investigate and be patient before purchase...thank you
The way u drink tea, I think u r an Asian with a western face ☺️☺️☺️☺️ holy molly, u got the whole set
Hahaha 😂
No asian roots in my family (that I know of 🙃), which is unfortunate because if not it could have meant another language for me to speak and to learn as a kid!
I do, and have a lot more tea stuff 😅
I know this video is about instructors. But my experience with local violin shops has not been good. I used to work in one, and I heard the conversations between the owner and customers, and the back stabbing , as soon as the customer left. Just awful. It was so toxic. I don't go in shops anymore.
I’m sorry to hear that!
I’m not gonna say that all customers are nice or the idea that the client is always right because I’d be obviously lying, but still why talking rubbish about the person who’s giving you some work, and who’s basically trusting you with one of the most precious thing they have which is their instrument...
I’m really happy to say that with most of my clients we ended up in really good terms/friendship and some of them I even get to see often...but I guess it can also be different the relationship shop - customer where they see loads of people a month, than luthier - musician when it’s once in a while and you obviously build a different connection.
Honesty, kindness, and servanthood, vs. dishonest, rude, prideful, slander, and delight in gossip.
this is so so very interesting. I haven't been playing much as an adult but I distinctly remember one of my childhood private teachers telling me horror stories of luthiers messing up the violin's tone by moving the sound post without asking the client's permission, and that's really stuck with me to feel wary about violin shops. It's a shame really. I'm an American and I'm going to take my old instrument to a luthier with my stimulus check... poor thing has some damage near the bridge due to badly carved bridge. I was a child and my parents wouldn't really know much better.
Thank you very much for your comment!
Unfortunately both things can be true, and by that I mean poor work made by luthiers and doing things that they shouldn’t and people advising not to do anything to the instrument so as not to mess it up when the instrument should actually get some work done if not that’s what messes it up 😅
Good luck with the restoring!
You appeared in my reccomended and... hey I'm from Cremona too!! ciaoooo
Ciao!!! Credo sei la prima persona di Cremona che mi scrive qui!
Ma anche liutaio o è stata una raccomandazione a caso per parte di TH-cam? Haha
Ora sono curioso di sapere chi sei 🙃
@@LucasFabro Heilaa! credo che sei apparso nei miei raccomandati perché seguo Twoset violin haha xD
No non sono liutaio ma mi piace molto la musica e suonare diversi instrumenti! :D
Allora sicuramente sarà per quello si!
Strano però trovare un cremonese che abbia interesse per la musica però che non faccia ne il liutaio ne il musicista hahaha
You were offered 20-50% commission for your violins?! That's disgusting. I think it is immoral to try to ruthlessly profit from the hard work of violin luthiers and only offer a potential client in exchange.
I agree, but I guess not everyone has the same morality standards!
And it hasn't happened to me, but I guess you can imagine that it has happened to some of my colleagues that some musicians asked for a "free" instrument in exchange of publicity...
@@LucasFabroah, the good old “I pay in exposure” a$$holes, lovely…
Great video! Thanks for posting!
different but very interesting video Lucas. Keep on with this matters
Thank you very much for your nice comment :)
New to you and your channel...TwoSet sent me here from watching their video. Massive TSV fan and been subbed, supported and watching them for years now.
Absolutely loved your response to all points. You just gained a new sub! Just from watching this one video.
I haven't been able to watch more videos of yours as of this moment, because this is the first video that popped up in recommended...but I bet this gets you a lot more traffic/viewed video stats... and hopefully significantly boosting more subs and opportunities for you. Look forward to now begin watching your other content here and hope heaps of fellow LingLinghead's / TwoSetViolin fans see it too, because just this one video made me like,comment,subscribe straight up. Keep it up!
Also, I'd love to see your responses to certain bits of "The Secret Of The Violin ( Stradivarius - Guarnerius )" youtube video...Especially from what transpires at 34:09 onward, that workshop. That seems totally "exploitable"....and if those guys are or could be a part of the Dark Secrets gang or be somewhat associatively..
Lucas, your O’Brien course is excellent. The best violin is the one I’ve made myself. The journey has been amazing and when I’ve carved and tuned my own plates I guarantee they aren’t fake 🤣Thank you!!
Thank you very much!! I'm glad that you enjoyed it and I'm sure that those ones are not fake hahaha
I only buy newer instruments . vintage instruments have vintage problems . I've been looking to get a double bass , I have played electric bass for many years and I have never felt comfortable trusting the String shops that I have been in so far. Most of them seem to push their rental programs and have very few choices to apply your rental fees to when you are to buy a instrument.
That’s a good way of putting it, vintage instruments tend to have vintage problems, unless they’re massively and properly fixed, in which case you’d be paying much more than what it’d cost to get a much better quality modern one.
I’m sorry to hear about your negative experiences with shops though, I don’t deal much with them as I tend to sell to musicians directly, but I’m sure there are some nice ones too! :)
Thanks for your comment by the way!
Are you a tea fan too? Would love to see some content around tea if you're willing to share. Don't see many people around here doing so :)
I am and was thinking on doing so!! Although I'm not sure how it'd exactly "bond" with the rest of the people that follow the channel haha.
In some of my videos you'll see me having some (think mainly on a recent one where I show my workshop and on the tools or changing violin strings one).
Thanks for your comment and yeah, I might make a nice tea video :)
Love your opinion and point of view about the subject! Also ur whole tea set 😂 New sub
Thank you very much for your comment! I'm glad that you enjoyed it :)
Absolutely loved your video!
Thank you very much!
Absolutely loved your comment 😁
I've never touched a violin but this is so fascinating. Thanks!
Hahah, thanks for you comment! I'm glad that you enjoyed it despite that :)
Great video Lucas. Thank you.
Thank you very very much for your comment!
I’m glad you enjoyed it :)
If I knew then what I know know. I just bought a stellar and pristine Saxony violin and a wonderful French violin made in 1850 on Ebay. Both were from known makers referenced on Tariso and found on Martin Swan's site with two star voices. I paid half for each what I paid for a good violin from a major Violin that you all have heard of and my new old ones out class my newer one.
Thank You so much! You are honest and really display your love and passion for violins, their history and also real advice for new and seasoned violin enthusiasts.
Thank you very much for your kind comment!! I'm glad that you enjoyed the video and that you found it useful :)
Excellent Video, Sir! Even though I do not play any of the stringed instruments, I learn so much from Two-Set Violin - Olaf, The Violin Maker - and, now, you!
I am no expert on musical instruments (especially those in the String Family) but it appears to me that Wind Instruments may be more difficult to counterfeit. I'm still learning, though, and my opinions are quite likely to change.....
By the way, I play the Clarinet and Saxophone, so I'm not a complete Music Novice.
Thank you very much for your very nice message! It helps the channel a lot :)
I'm glad that you can learn something from the videos, although I'm afraid I can't help you commenting anything about wind instruments haha
@@LucasFabro I wasn't looking for information about Wind Instruments ;-) and didn't expect that information from you. I enjoy the videos on how instruments are made and about instruments of the Baroque, Renaissance, and early Classical Periods. I'm especially interested (fascinated would be a better description) in some instruments in the Violin/Viola/Cello Family - they had the 4 (sometimes, up to 7 strings) that were bowed. However, under those strings were more strings (running along the upper body of the instrument) that were not bowed but they, instead, would vibrate sympathetically with those that were being played. I saw these instruments in the private collection of a Music Store (recently closed due to the Pandemic and Internet sales). So far, I haven't found much information on these instruments.
Anyways, I have seen several of your videos on making Violins and find them very interesting. Thank You!
You know ... and this may seem a little out there, but it does link up ... I wonder if this doesn't have something to do with the traditional extreme, extreme antipathy of classical music teachers to left-handed players and instruments? I mean, it changes nothing if the instrument is also mirrored -- bowing, fingering, everything is exactly the same. But teachers will traditionally sh*t themselves at the idea, and it's soaked into the culture in a way that it never was in the past, as in Baroque times. It was typical in that time to make and play left-handed instruments, but today, a teacher won't get a commission off a lefty student because we typically have to buy new instruments (which is shockingly easy) or harder to find old ones. (I'd love to take a look at old Strads and see if there aren't signs on the interior that the bass bars were glued into the other side on a few. I doubt anyone would be allowed to do that research, though.)
Anyhow, this so so gross and shady. :-( I'm glad I play instruments where this sort of nonsense doesn't take place or can't. My personal attitude is that musical instruments are technology, and in every other case of technology, it gets better as people become more educated. Why would this not be the case with string instruments as well?
That is a very very interesting topic!
I'm not sure, or let's say that I don't think they're related in the sense that one came because of the other (but I really don't know so if you have more background to this please feel free to share it!).
That being said there's definitely a "personality" or "behaviour" pattern that correlates both things on the way that decisions are made (or even better, how they are made by someone else and have to have their approval).
In fact the only times (and I can't count them with one hand) that I've been asked for information for a left-handed instrument were made by amateur musicians and never professionals.
@@LucasFabro It's extremely common among period flute players since those flutes (the 8-key simple system flutes) have gone out of the modern orchestra and been absorbed by folk music, mostly Irish. Folk music, Irish or otherwise, never cares if you're left-handed. So what's happened is that 8-key flute makers all make left-handers whenever needed; it's just accepted in that world. And almost everyone in that world plays new instruments, although people do sometimes use old ones. (Old wood flutes don't survive as well as old violins.)
I have some experience on viola and had a few really nice mirror instruments, but the blowback and hostility to bowing left-handed, plus the weight and pain of playing it, made me decide to stop. The 8-key flute is lighter, more pleasant, and playing left-handed is just part of that world so I do that.
The ironic thing is I don't even play folk music anymore! I've ended up playing classical and opera tunes!
Yeah, the folk environment is completely different and wider in a way, but I wouldn’t say it’s the mainstream or the most popular thing (as if classic music was 😅😂).
Only now I see your technology question!
I think there’s something of what I mentioned in the video involved...romanticism and the narrative that older instruments are better!
It’s easy to understand the romanticism part and I think we all have some of that so I can’t really say anything about it haha, but I’ve seen people “defending” their instruments regarding sound, comfort or even from the construction point of view as if they were an actually Strad when they were actually very bad! And again, behind this there’s a lot of misinformation/lack of education in regards to instruments (I wish music schools taught a bit more of that), a lot of that narrative I said, and another thing that I said in the video which is that’s harder to prove someone that it’s wrong than to fool that person 🙃
Wow amazing video nice to know.
Thankyou for make this response
And thank you very much for your comment :)
Hello Lucas! Lovey video and very interesting feedback too!
Thank you Nadia! I hope you're doing weel :)
I have chosen my own violins. My teacher has never suggested any particular violin or bow for me. I have made mistakes in the past and also been scammed too which was my mistake.
Unfortunately that's sometimes the best way to learn...making mistakes. However, I'm sorry to hear you had these bad experiences!
@@LucasFabro the scam was a "German" violin but when it arrived at my home it certainly wasn't by the way the terrible so called varnish looked on it and the varnish looked more like glue. I took it to the local luthier and he said it was a fake label and only worth the rubbish bin. I didn't know what to do with it until I had the guts to smash it.
I took my violin to the pawn shop, and they were only able to offer me only $30 for my violin, bow, and case.
Thanks for your comment! I guess they never know what they are buying as they're no experts so they have to offer low prices, but then again they also might not know what they're selling afterwards.
My friend's violin was stolen. It was insured for $10,000 and was sold back to her by the pawn shop for $100.
This is why pawn shops can actually be a gold mine, if you have a keen eye for certain things. Many don't really do deep research into what they buy, and pick what they think is a safe low price and sell it for what they think they can get from a cursory glance at prices online. Which is often pretty low or extremely high.
I sometimes go to pawn shops for videogames, and I've seen fake game copies sold for top value and real copies sold for bargain DVD/toy prices.
Really Interesting, Thank you!
Thanks and thank you for the comment too! It helps the channel a lot!
I'm glad you found it interesting :)
Tinder came from nowhere lol. Subbed
Hahaha, I couldn’t resist making that joke 🙃
Link to the online course 🎻
obrienguitars.com/courses/violin
OTHER MEDIA:
- www.lucasfabro.com
- Instagram: instagram.com/fabroviolins/
- Facebook: facebook.com/fabroviolins
No, he said it’s thicker wood in relation to the Sartory Bow… :) it got lost in translation…
I had a teacher that was convicted of selling stolen instruments.
Oh my gosh lol I definitely laughed out loud when you said "Tinder" in response to their intro about "dating" XD Oh, not that type of dating lol
Thanks for the comment! It helps the channel a lot :)
I'm glad that you laughed! As soon as he said that my mind went directly there to that joke so I had to add it! Hahaha
Cool video
Thank you very much! Glad you enjoyed it :)
Lucas you did amazing keep up the good work
Thank you very much! (as always)
2:23 "the teacher secretly takes a cut" . Well. I don't. So there are some people trying to grab money wherever they can, and then there are people with morals.
Edit: the issue IS real though.
Hahaha, I’m happy to hear that you have morals, but to be fair, I think that most teachers and people in general do. It’s just that those that don’t are the ones that make it to the “news”.
very helpful man
Thank you very much! I'm glad you enjoyed it :)
I follow you on instagram. Your sharing of violin making is great.
Thank you very much!
Violin making is my passion so I’m always trying to spread the word the best possible way :)
I remember my friend got scammed by someone selling "italian violins". The maker made a public statement saying that it was not his instruments.
Anyway, new subscriber here!!
It's sad to read all these stories! At the same time I'm sure that they're most likely the exception and that the only reason why they seem a lot is because people are not as loud about the good ones :)
Thanks for your comment and for the sub!
@@LucasFabro welcome! Is there anyway to contact you outside of youtube?
Good video 👍
Thanks for your comment! It helps the channel a lot :)
Glad you enjoyed it!
@@LucasFabro I just came across your channel via autoplay and I loved it. Good videos and quality content.Keep it up...
Lots of love and support from 🇮🇳
By the way nice Tea set👌
That drinking bowl you were using, made me think you were drinking sake
Hahaha, no, that’s a proper tea cup! Although I have a couple of what I think are sake cups that I use as tea cups instead 😅
@@LucasFabro I'm not well versed when it comes to tea cups as you can see. The only tea cups I know are the common ones, and the japanese ones
Also, I've been watching a couple of your video, and I've just suscribed
Haha, same with me but about sake cups 😂
excellent content--grazie!
Thank you so much! Glad you enjoy it :)
Hi Lucas. Just wondering how I can tell if a luthier is good or not? I need to get a crack fixed, but I'm worried about getting my violin ruined.
That’s a very difficult question, specially when asking about fixing a crack because in theory if it’s on the inside you shouldn’t be able to see the fix even if it’s not done right.
So, I’m going to start with the most honest and probably most negative part of the answer, which is that for the untrained eye it’ll be almost impossible to tell if some of these things are done right or wrong, only over time if it “fails” is when you’d realise.
That being said, some advices I could give you are to try and get different opinions and valuations from different restorers. Ask them to explain you exactly what and how they would do to fix it. Ask them to see if they have any other instruments that they are restoring with the same problem and try to look closely at how the fix looks like and also ask if you can take photos (if they’re not restoring something like that then ask them to see other things they’re working on anyway and try to take pics). After that you can even ask online to sone more restorers if the process you’ve been told is the best one and what they thinking of the work they are doing (keep in mind that some makers might not be willing to help when they know there not getting anything out of it and that some others can be negative about the work they’re doing because we can all be a pain and meticulous about some things hahaha).
Probably the most obvious thing would be to ask colleagues who you really trust if they had something done by that person and if it was good. Sometimes when trying to get as much information as possible you can tell who’s being honest and who’s trying to hide stuff even if you don’t understand what they’re doing haha.
Of course a lot of what they tell you can also depend on what instrument you have, how bad the crack is and if it’s worth fixing it or not.
Also depending on where you are you can ask some makers (not restorers) who they’d recommend and where they’d take their instrument to get fixed if they didn’t do it themselves.
Anyway, sorry for the long answer...specially because I’m not exactly sure it’ll help you deal with this any better 😬
I will always buy modern instruments. or like no name japanese ones that you find in some second shop.
Thank you very much for your comment, it helps the channel a lot!!
And I'm glad to hear that you enjoy modern instruments too!
A commission system between instrument sellers and teachers isn't inherently bad. Many teachers and retailers both individually want to match players with appropriate instruments, especially with new students, who can potentially become life long clients. A young student starting on a 1/2 sized violin can turn into 2-3 additional sales over the years as they move up sizes to a full sized instrument. I believe most of the corruption occurs amongst instructors/retailers recommending instruments to higher skilled players.
And a young student pushed into the wrong instrument can easily simply make them quit. While this can happen at the higher levels too, beginners are the ones who need the most guidance and thus have to put the most trust in the teacher.
Thanks for your comment :)
As you said, I don't think it happens (at least often) with people who are buying 1/2 sized instruments, as those ones always tend to be cheap and people know they'll have to be changed rather soon so nobody really spends much on them, so that also removes the incentives (money) for being nasty about them. And I also agree that it's not necessarily bad, but it would definitely be much better if everybody was transparent about it, also because that way the student (or parents) know that the teacher, even if it's super honest, can be subconsciously biased.
I think that most of the scamming is students who are just starting a music school or young adults entering a college as it's when they usually have to change the instrument and also older people tend to go more their own way.
Hope you're well!!
How can we buy a violin directly from the maker?
Well, I guess that depends on the maker haha. But in my case (and I guess for most ones is the same) the first step would always be to send a message or email to the maker and start arranging things from there (whether it’s an instrument that’s already been made, a commission, shipping details or the possibility of visiting the workshop!)
Do you also make violas?
@@kevinhockman1072 yes I do :)
I have recently been commissioned one which I should start in a couple of months actually! An Amati model which is one of my favourites for sure :)
U reacted to TwoSet!! Heyyyyy
Haha, yep! I thought it could be useful to put my input into this topic :)
@@LucasFabro 🖤 very well explanation it was
I didn’t know you use a gaiwan.
Depending on the tea yes, haha. I have several gaiwan, a yixing pear style for some PuErh, dark wulongs and blacks (reds) and also a tokoname Kyushu for my Japanese greens!
This video was recommended to me most likely because I'm a twoset fan.
Probably haha!
But I’m happy to see you around in my channel now :)
@@LucasFabro I also watch their luthier channel Ask Olaf the violin maker. Maybe it could have been. He also made a response video about it.
Hi Lucas, how can I buy one of your violins ?
Hi! Thank you for your message :)
Just send me an email at ljfabro@gmail.com or through my website www.lucasfabro.com and I’ll be happy to give you all the information there!
A bow is just a stick of wood. Ever heard of diminishing returns??
pov: you're here from the reddit post
Are you Italian?
I have something unpopular and politically uncorrect to say: "Made in Cremona" give at least +25% to the price compared to an instrument of the same quality made in Blablabla. Who disagree? Of course luthiers from Cremona 😅
Thanks for your comment, although I'm afraid I'd have to disagree with you.
Of course you can say that I'm just disagreeing because I'm a violin maker in Cremona, but that argument is just a fallacy.
First of all, it's estimated that there are around 350 violin makers working in Cremona, so with that come different qualities and different prices (even within instruments of the same quality).
There can be a difference in price of over 500% between violin makers here as well (and as I said before, that doesn't mean a difference in quality). So in many cases the experience depends on which instruments you got to try.
If you managed to get your hands around one of those makers that "produce" a lot of instruments a year, then you're probably right. But for the same price you can find much better instruments here as well.
Lastly, I have to say that because of my work I was also lucky to travel a lot and see instruments from various cities and countries. And in many cases, I must say that construction wise, some of the most expensive instruments in those places were not even near in quality as some of the most affordable ones in Cremona.
That being said, this doesn't mean that violin making in other places is not good! There are amazing instruments for good prices, and fantastic makers abroad as well!
What I just mean is that there's everything of everything everywhere, and many times it just depends on what you come accross with.
Thanks for your comment again! It really helps the channel a lot :)
Why don't luthiers put RFID chips inside their instruments with a unique code?
Thanks for the comment! It helps the channel a lot :)
Well, I guess there are many reasons and at the same time not many justifications haha.
First of all I'd say that a lot of luthiers are not very technological so they probably don't even know what it is. Another reason I guess that could be the glueing part of it, and the risk of it getting unglued that would be making some strange noises and vibrations inside. At the same time, I guess there could be the fear that it could complicate things in places such as airports and that. But mainly, I'd say that I'm not sure how it could be really "useful", but if you don't mind expanding on the topic, I'm more than happy to hear more!
ohh i'm the 1000.th sub of your channel! ofc i deserve a commission right? :p
Great! Thanks, I was wondering who it could be and was hoping there’d be a message 🙃
Of course, you can place your order and commission an instrument from me 😜😂
@@LucasFabro cheers! i randomly found your channel, after watching original twoset's video, it seems i got scammed pretty hard too when i gifted a violin to my little sister :D didn't check up other videos but this one is really chill and good as quality wise. I hope you get more subs in future :)
You should make another like this. Without 2 set.
Thanks for the comment! Maybe I will then :)
ngl, I clicked on this video because your name sounded very Argentinian 🙈
Hahaha, guess you weren’t very surprised then 😅
Talking about fake instruments...i got a falsely labelled PRS electric guitar from a big music store chain in hong kong....it wasnt cheap. Very disappointed
I'm really sorry to hear that!
And reading the comment section and for what I know, you're not alone on this 😅
Thanks for sharing your experience though!
Never borrow money to buy an instrument.
Sad that people who play and teach music will be dishonest or scheming.. willing to use their position to take advantage of others
Thanks for tor your comment!
It's unfortunate that there are some individuals in the music industry who are dishonest or scheming. However, I still like to believe that it's a "loud minority". There are many honest and ethical musicians and teachers out there who genuinely care about their students :)
Stay well!
Mafia at it's finest.
Indeed!!
I'm guessing you are in Europe. If what you say is true that teachers are giving you names of students that is a huge GDPR breach, fines for which START in the millions.
And if these are under age students too they would almost certainly lose their accreditation.
You if find these kinds of dishonest teachers, you should break their hand. Make them cannot make a living in future.
Hahaha, I'm afraid that could only make them get more into the shady side of the business :p
I don't care who made a violin.
The whole commission thing is dodgy as crap and I bet thousands of people get scammed every year because of this.
I'm afraid to say you're probably right! Although I'm also sure that there are some great people out there who make the best to offer people the best instruments they can!
Thanks for the comment :)