Hi Josh, don't let the adverse comments effect you. It's the internet and it's full of "Experts" who probably don't know which end of a hammer to hold, I learn stuff from every one of your video's. It's great to see a highly skilled pro doing his thing. Keep smiling. Best regards Sarah
@@TopperMachineLLC Just arm chair machinists. I watched your setup and you did fine. One thing I would do is level your machine so the Quill doesn't have that error when it extends.
To quote the illustrious Teddy Roosevelt “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena…” You are that man and I appreciate your craftsmanship.
I'm not a machinist by trade . I was a welder, pipefitter for 35 years now retired. In my experience take 3 different tradesman give them a project and they will go about it 3 different ways and use different tools according to what is personal preference and tools available. Not saying any of the ways are wrong. YOU decided what would work best for YOU! YOU are happy with the results so who cares what anyone else thinks! I love your content. Wish we were closer I have a couple of pins I need grease ports machined however shipping from eastern WV would be cost prohibitive, best wishes and happy holidays from Rexy.
On shipping, do you not have things shipped to you all the time? Order online and a few days later it arrives? You don't have to go anywhere to get what you need. Shipping is far cheaper than your time and fuel to drive around to find a shop to do the job. I'd be happy to help with your pins.
A steam loco recently going through the same, cylinders bored, new pistons, new piston rings, super heated cylindrical slide valves bored, new pistons, piston rings, all packings remade from scratch. The loco got assembled, tested, adjusted and pulled a train september 30, year 2024. Great success. Much of the work was done like You did it. All piston rings were made from cast iron, pistons made in steel. Good work!
Josh, You go to great lengths to explain your processes and for many we appreciate it, I suspect however you are allowing the Internet Trolls to get under your skin because you are genuinely concerned to do a good job. Please don't let them get to you, treat them as they are - like an annoying barking dog or living next to a railway yard after a while the Trolls are just background noise you don't even hear. The Trolls never thank you for taking the trouble to reply and revel in the fact they got a rise out of you. Keep up the good work.
I actually find their comments amusing. They show just how little they actually know. I'd love to see them try even a quarter of the things I do on a regular basis.
Josh, my piece of advice is to not acknowledge, respond or interact with any of the trolls and haters. You are obviously the professional and as they say everyone has an opinion. Some are good and some are not worth reading. Delete the offensive one and ignore the rest. Great channel and keep the videos coming.
Hey Josh You're a pretty sharp dude. Don't let the internet get you down. Just keep "doing right the first time". The internet has soooo many "back seat drivers. Looking forward to your next video.
Good to see you today. You did the best that you could do with what you have. As long as you are happy with it, that is all that matters. You took off what was needed and it is still safe to use. Thanks for the extra work that you do to make the videos. Your videos are always interesting and educational.
Josh, you did it the right way! There wasn’t anything wrong with the way you did it. You do the job with the machines that you have. Forget the comments from the would be machinists.
I'll second that. You know best what tooling you have available and what's worked for you in the past. There's always a different way if you have different tools available. But, better? I'll also comment that maintenance shops for steam engines a hundred years ago did not have all the fancy equipment that we have available today. And certainly did not have indexable carbide tools. This was built using tools that we'd consider to be crude today. And, it's lasted a hundred years. I will admit that I'd wondered at if there were other surfaces that would benefit from truing up. But again, this was built to different standards than we have today. And, the design was probably made taking into account that rebuilds might be a bit crude. So, you've looked at those surfaces and would have noticed pitting to the point of not sealing and would do something about it if needed. In my case, I spent some time in a small lot, high precision shop doing mostly military subcontract work. And a bit of maintenance work for a client that rebuilt canning and packing equipment. Working on those different types of equipment taught me that machining is not the same in all vocations. And that you have to work to the standards of that specific equipment. Some of the work that you do is interesting to me simply because it's so different to what I'm used to.
The only criticism worth your attention would come from those who had re-built their own steam engine. All others are noise. You're doing great! I look forward to watching your project come together.
I always read all the comments as there are generally some good comments with actual knowledge I can take away. Sometimes those knowledgeable comments come across as a-holes, but I still take away some good info. The really dumb comments you can tell they have no idea about anything.
Hi Josh, you've done well. I fully machined a half scale Burrell Agricultural Traction Engine Cylinder and Weighshaft Bracket earlier this year, big job about 150 hours total. Yes big job setting up and dialing in. I tried using the spindle feed and found the bore to be tapering, locked the spindle and used table feed, perfect. I use a Brazed Tool with 60 degree included angle, sharp point for roughing, 1mm radius for finish pass, then hone. We use Alloy pistons in the models, 6160 Alloy nice to machine. Plenty of clearance and plain Cast Iron Rings. Remember that the crosshead holds the piston central so the piston doesn't really touch the bore. I use a combination of Co-Axial and Dial Indicator for set up. What we do today is more than accurate for what was done 100 years ago. Looking forward to seeing it in steam. All the best from Brisbane Australia.
From a guy who has boiled water for a living starting in 86 in the US Navy two 600 MW power plants. I have been designing a quadruple expansion, reciprocating steam engine. To power a generator. Doomsday kind of thing to prevent having to use oil in the steam to lubricate the cylinders I have investigated using PTFE/bronze piston rings, actually just square O-rings since they can be stretched over the piston. As far as the piston I’ve investigated using 7075 aluminum or bronze or breast. I do not want to introduce oil into the steam because I was going to design a closed loop system to eliminate or greatly reduce water consumption.
A condensing system, A.D. Baker actually experimented with that, but it failed due to oil separation issues. Google, A.D. Baker Steam Tractor. A few still exist, they were 300PSI systems. Pretty cool, too bad it failed.
did 1 steam cylinder myself, it was a hard setup and clock in and the wear was bad, had to take out a lot more than the customer anticipated and yes they had to make a new piston and rings. Well done Josh. AAA+
To anyone criticizing the use of the horizontal boring mill for the piston bore. I would reference them to watts steam engine, as one of the first machine tools ever made was a horizontal boring mill for steam engine bores. So you could say that machine was literally built for that job. 😊😊😊
Thanks for answering the questions good and bad. Your set up looked fine to me. And the results looked perfect. I think the honing was above and beyond but as you had a friendly shop that could do it, it just finished the job off. As you mentioned the conditions for saturated steam in a cylinder are quite different to internal combustion engines, as even without emulsified oil the steam, the vapour droplets act as a lubricant in their own right. For various reasons I’ve been unable to get my own Mclaren single cylinder traction engine out in the UK for a number of years but it’s safely under cover and periodically I turn the flywheel over with one hand to make sure the piston remains free. It still moves so freely that it still comes to rest on the the weight of the unbalanced crank axle. Looks like you have another 300 years of life in your cylinder yet.
Josh I have no knowledge of the details of steam engines but in my 50+ years of gasoline and diesel experience the cylinder wall finish is dependent on the ring material used and clearance needed for the piston. Just my two cents, I'm very interested in the rest of the build.
Hi Josh: I am an EE Have worked with fellows that have “Golden hands”. I do believe that you do also. The name of the game is “You have to have the tools” to do most work, like yourself. You have to work with what you have and are familiar with. This is what you do deserves an "ATTABOY"!! Don’t allow people to second guess you. You do take the time to weigh the options and take the one that you are most familiar with. Believe me when I say - If I needed either a new part or one fixed, you would be the first one I would go to. I do watch another fellow, who is also good, but you really are a very nice and good at what you do. Keep up the good work.
Hey Josh, I enjoy your videos and always learn something. I am a woodworker and marvel at the precision to which machinists work. Hope your work load picks up.
A few years ago we rebuilt a rusted 9x14 Tangye engine. Had the cylinder bored on a boring mill at the local company A&G Price in Thames. Removed about 0.125 in diameter from the bore hence most of the rust pits. A few pits remained but the ring width was wide enough to pass over. No honing not required. Piston was increased in diameter by braising and re machined. New rings were turned from a cast iron ring to size then heated to make correct gap. No machine to reface the slide valve surface so used the D valve that I had machined and scraped to match. A new piston rod was made also. Engine runs well at the Goldmine experience in Thames New Zealand. Your set up was correct, SQUARE to the gland end of cylinder and clocked to cylinder length.
Hello Josh. I think the way you did it was probably the best way when using an HBM. Assuming the valve chest surface is square to the cross head-end flange of the cylinder it makes for an easy, rigid set up. If those surfaces were not square then the valve chest surface could be shimmed to get the flange square, again relatively simple and rigid. I learned a valuable lesson about dialing in bores early on when I first started using my HBM. If you want to dial in both ends of a bore (to align the axis of the bore with the spindle of the HBM) then extend the spindle out far enough to reach the far end and then move the table, not the spindle, to get to each end of the bore for dialling. This ensures that any spindle droop (and there is always spindle droop) is constant at each end. This is similar to boring by feeding with the table, not the spindle. Spindle droop has the effect of lowering the axis of rotation at the end of the spindle relative to that part of the spindle nearest the headstock. If you dial in one bore with the spindle retracted you are essentially dialing in to that axis and when you extend out to the far end of the bore you end up dialling it in to a lower axis. This gives a false indication on whether the bore is parallel to the table in the vertical plane. There are so many traps and pitfalls a guy can get into when using a HBM it is no wonder that traditionally the machinists that ran them were the highest paid in the shop. Keep up the good work. Ken
Thanks Josh for a fine video. I agree with Loyd. I watched the other video too and maybe I'll watch again. I like many of your viewers learn things that we don't think about normally. Thanks for your fine business
Personally, I think it turned out beautiful. I'd bet the farm that it's better than when it was new. For some reason there's a lot of recliner machinists out there that know everything about things they've never even seen before. The honing was icing on the cake. I probably would have hit it with a 320 flapper wheel to knock the peaks off and ran it! Nice job, Josh!
I really enjoy your videos! I've done some machining in my life and fully understand what you're doing, and why. Don't let the know nothings get you down, I wish I could be there to work with you to learn more about a craft that I love doing.
Spot on Mr. Topper. Real superheated steam is a Dry Hot and can be invisible, dangerous gas and power is exponential to Steam pressure to the piston surface area that as you stated is driven on both sides. Seeing Jay Leno Steam shop and steam cars especially the Doble he tells it as it is a huge powerful push like The Hand of God.. so all the steps you are taking Josh are the correct ones .
I used to run a machine shop for an absentee owner. The shop owned the patterns for 35 Liberty Ships built in Portland Oregon during WWII.... We'd receive an order from a repair yard for all of the live steam parts as needed for overhaul. We'd pull the drawings, search and pull patterns, and send them to the foundry for casting. We would specify the formula of gray iron, receive back the patterns with parts... We often made pistons, rings, sleeves, and other cast parts for pulleys, capatans, etc The closest we came to doing anything with the bore was a low feed rate, light cut with either the lathe or horizontal boring mill. We package and wood crate the parts as requested and ship open accout to all kinds of strange companies all over the world that still had these old ships in service. Of course, with time the orders slowed as these old ships were scrapped... We knew by the master part brake down, what parts fit what ships... The owners dad, had bought the whole package at auction at the end of WWII as the ship yard closed... I've often ponder a lot of questions I never asked... Thought your readers might like my thoughts... that was 60's - 70's.... Enjoy your work, thanks
Nice finish, Josh. Hope you didn't "bored" while you were getting it honed (I know it's old and corny, but I'm old and couldn't help myself!)! Thanks for the update and I hope you and yours have a peaceful and merry Christmas. Cheers.
Hi Josh, Did it work? Yes. Are you happy with the result? Yes. Then however you did it was not stupid. In fact it was perfect because it worked which is all that matters in the end. Let's see the whiners actually get this job done. Yeah... Thought so. On a different note... I am all for cooling but DANG! That was some nasty looking coolant on that boring machine! I would not want to clean that up afterwards! :) Take care and all the best from California!🧡
Thanks, Josh. I appreciate these follow up videos. I know only a little about steam engines in general, so this satisfies my curiosity a bit more. Learning is living and living is learning. I never read the comments or replies on other's videos, so I have no idea the level of lunacy that your viewers are portraying. There was a channel I watched for years that recently had his account terminated. 1000+ videos. 80M views. 220K subs. Almost 20 years of effort. From what I gather, he repeatedly violated community standards in his replies to comments from people who wouldn't know the difference between their anal sphincter and a steam cylinder bore. Not that you are doing that, my point is that, it is my humble opinion that everytime you respond to them, it feeds the fire. I don't even acknowledge their existence.
Hi Josh, Really great to see you working on your engine. I'm a steam fan myself and my job was making copper boilers, for model locomotives, up to 7.5" gauge ,traction engines in fact any engine that needed a boiler. I shipped them all over the world. So i know like you what its like to work long hours. Please make more vidioes of ypur engine, looking forward to them.😢😢6😮
1. Well done. As you said, it'll be the best it possibly can be now. The larger angle plate with the smaller hole in it might have been used to set up but I enjoyed your method. If you ask a dozen engineers how to do something you'll get a dozen methods. I probably would have bought some inserts for cast as they do work really well. Keep working and producing the videos. Always interesting. Bob UK.
Hi Josh, Some of those people making stupid comments and probably haven't worked on anything like that. Welding up ??? One word - ridiculous. Anyway it looks good and should work 100%.Cheers Ian
You’re right it is yours. You did it best way possible I think you’re right on the money and it’s probably just as good or even better than when it rolled out of a Baker’s plant when it was built job well done we never had to get into that depth of rebuild with our engine. Ours was just steering issues and clutch shoes, which were a nightmare on a Port Huron.
WHEN I HAVE A JOB.... I look at what i have, and what I have to do to complete the job, or if I can. I dont ask, "What would Jesus do"? Or, what would a shop with every tool ever made, ran by NASA, and demanding .00005 tolerance with calculated expansion to 1500f. I do what I can. I applaud your work, and as you said, most dont know how steam works, or they would have no clue how it ran at all with that egg shaped gouged up cylinder, stuck rings and shaft seal leaks. Great Job!
hi Josh i am baker by trade but i build 4" Traction engine made my own bronze rings and honed my bore with a drill driven hone stones but my bores are 2.250 diameter many thanks for all your videos they help me with my jobs STEVE FORM THE UK
Thanks for the follow up video, my 42 inch Bullard VTL would have loved to bore the cylinder. Only 500 miles from you hope things pick up soon , have a Merry Christmas
Good discussion on your methods and the reason for your route. Unbelievable someone suggested bore welding on graphite cast iron. Thanks for sharing Josh.
I enjoyed your video. From my scale model machining of 2 steam engines I'm certain you're the right track. I bet it was hissing a lot and lacked a "bark". The proper sealing of the cylinder and a good slide valve face will greatly improve it. My little 3/4" bore engines can run on 2 psi. I do cheat with polymer O-rings though.
Hi Josh, I appreciate your sharing the work you are doing on your engine. It's nice to see work being performed on a larger steam engine that isn't a locomotive. I made a 10" diameter aluminum Low Pressure piston for our 1909 Doty compound Marine Steam engine in out 40' steamboat. It is a two-piece piston hollowed out as much as i was comfortable, made out of 6061 aluminum, and sized with thermal expansion at450*F steam temp in mind.. I sealed it on the mating surface where the two pieces met, and had it hard anodized. After 7 years and 5,000 miles of steaming at 6mph and 200rpm (minimal internal lubrication because it's a condensing steam plant), there has been no wear to the piston or cylinder. Mind you, this is a vertical engine, versus your horizontal. The ring heights are obscenely tall (Dad was insistent on using same height rings... 5/8"!!!), and even with those heavy rings the ring lands have not suffered. The initial intent was a lighter piston and more closely match the HP and LP piston weights as the cast iron original was 30lbs heavier than the HP! With being pretty conservative with the piston thickness I was still able to get the weight within 5lbs of the HP piston. Well worth the time and effort.
Good morning Josh. I absolutely agree with you and "Your" decisions to do everything you did from setup to machining. There was nothing wrong with your way and procedures in boring the steam engine. You did it yourself, the best way you could. I am certainly glad you decided to hone the cylinder. Do you know how much was removed during honing and was it pretty true? Looks great. Thanks Josh have a great week. 👍🇺🇸👍
I don't know what we actually took out. I'll be measuring it when I order the rings. Hopefully, it will be around the first of the year. I'll use the bore Guage and check out everything.
Looks good Josh! Keep on keeping on. There is more than one way to skin a cat. If I had to do the same thing you did here I would have done it much the same. As you said, HBMs are made for boring!!. Honing is one of my favorite little niches in machining. I don't have a hone large enough for that cylinder though!
Oil-circuit-engines are quite different from steam-engines concerning the lubrication. On the other hand: honing is mandatory for 2-stroke-cylinders, too. I don't know if honing makes sense in a steam cylinder, but I assume that honing should create no problems at least... Finally: VERY interesting content!!! 👍👍👍
6 millionths of an inch per degree per inch for steel and 12 millionths of an inch per degree per inch for aluminum. Those are the numbers we use to compensate for measuring aluminum with steel tooling. These numbers will work for all steels and all aluminum.
yes, but this is cast iron. My concern is how accurate will these numbers be? Different grades of cast iron, different grades of aluminum? I have some research to do.
Excellent response to the idiotic critics who know nothing about the cost of tooling! I really liked this video for putting them in their place 😁. Like you said, you work with what you've got. Wishing you and yours all the very best. Cheers.
I know that some steam cylinders were not honed or cross hatched, just a good finish from the boring as you had done and they worked just fine. Don't listen to the nay sayers! I personally have recently become very interested in ceramics for cylinders and pistons for steam... The possibilities are amazing!
Steam cylinders was normally sleeved with cast iron, but this was only where water quality was very bad, . Steam cylinder best practice was to chrome the sleeve thickly as , it being shiny ,it reflected more heat back to steam that would otherwise condense,esspecialy with wet steam. Dry steam would obviously need more oil of higher quality ( good steam oil) With new pistons the amount of piston-rings can be doubled up by making them thinner and of course they must be the exact diammeter of the sleeve with zero pressure on the sleeve walls when fitted . One very small hole in each ring seat open to each steam side wil press each ring lightly to the sleeve walls by means of pressure underneath the pistonring. Say 6-8 rings per piston will make it about 100% steam tight during operation. In the steam days practice was 2 or 3 rings on the piston and in opperation they lost about 25% of available steam from one side to the other and being tollerated was a major reason why diesels came along. Ithink , steam, when properly designed is much more efficient than diesel as the SouthAfrican 25 class locomotive that became the sole 26 class called the "Red Devil" proved in the early eighties.
I personally appreciate you videos. However, I am going to have bill you for several large older machines. And a new building to house them. Various tooling as well! I plan to make a ton of small pieces out of a few big pieces! Thanks Josh, keep the faith.
Steam engine technology has been in existence since the start of the 19th Century - it was maintained by machine tools that barely worked back in the day. Virtually anything you do will be better than existed when your steam engine was manufactured.
Unfortunately if you do something or don't do something, no matter how high a standard you work to, there will always be people out there who reckon you are dumb and they know better. It comes with the territory of making TH-cam videos. Keep doing what you are doing. Self taught 73 yr old machinist/mechanic in Land Down Under.
Can you please explain why you will be making an aluminum piston rather than cast iron which would avoid different coefficients of expansion? I'm sure you have a VERY good reason from which we can learn. Keep up the good work.
I don't do full size steam but have made a couple dozen model steam engines including a couple of 1/8 scale locomotives. I didn't see anything you did that i wouldn't do.
Cross hatch is not needed, your seals will work well enough in there, and the rings, with a good coating of bronze, will want to run on a smooth surface anyway to reduce wear. Remember the original was cast, rough machined and then honed with coarse grit, then just polished a little, then was run. A little bit of bypass steam will make no difference, the original one would have, from new, had a lot less perfect surface than what you have now, and it will be moot anyway in 6 months of running, as there will always be slight pitting from the steam and condensed water, so, as long as the outside seals are good and do not leak, and the shaft seal is packed nicely with graphite packing, or PTFE, which works well over the old oakum, lead and wax with oil seals they had back then, it will be better than new.
Sean has it right as far as I know. The nice cross hatch pattern is just the honing finish. You've gone beyond that and anything you do would just rough up the nice surface that you have. As I understand it, you do want a bit of roughness when using steel rings so the rings actually wear a bit as they seat into the bore. That gives a machined in place seal. But, with fancy rings like you are considering that may indeed be bad. I'd talk to the folks making the rings and ask them what finish they suggest. If they say that you are too smooth, then roughing things up a bit might make sense. Based on the original video I was thinking that you were just getting some form of steel ring and that the bore that you had would be great to seat them in. The one thing that I would consider is that these machines were designed to be used daily. So, they were getting fresh steam with steam oil every use. No time for corrosion to build up. In your case, this will probably sit a lot between uses. So, running an oil rich mix has a better chance of leaving oil in place while this sits for weeks or months between uses.
Oh and please do go into detail about the differences between the reciprocating components of steam vs IC engines. There are plenty of people like me who have a decent working knowledge of IC engines but have no more than basic conceptual knowledge of reciprocating steam engines.
Great, vid man, I like to see many different approaches to a problem and thats what you give to us mortals because the available tools is a must for many of us as we all dont have a fully equipped machine shops. As my old boss once said: Everyone has an opinion but it doesn't make that opinion right and, of course, there are many ways to skin a cat. Maybe you could leave the negative comments in and just add a donkey icon in the reply so we can all have a good laugh. 😂
Aluminum seems unusual for a steam engine piston. Sure, models are often made out of aluminum because of its ease of machining. I would stick to oem materials. Making a pattern and having a piston cast is not an ordeal. The balance of reciprocating parts would be different if an aluminum part was inserted where designers before had cast iron.
I'm curious why aluminum just for ease of machining? Durabar is readily available in disks that would work to make a piston as well. The piston in my Ames engine appears to be hollow cast iron which seems odd but maybe done to keep weight down since it is a fairly large engine at 11" bore? Is that normal or are most solid
I'm also curious about the choice of aluminum vs iron. Does it simply come down to availability? And you're definitely right about whether folks understand steam or not, there's a world of difference between steam and internal combustion engines; almost the only similarity is the shape of the cylinder :).
While we are discussing boring ... A while back, you mentioned that drilling holes was boring. I've just been putting up shelves, so I had to drill 400 holes in 3/4" square tubing on my drill press, but as I was drilling right through, that's actually 800 holes. Then light countersink with a hand drill to de-burr the 800 holes. Then 80 shelves, drilling out the four 3/16" holes to 1/4" on each shelf, then de-burring with a countersink bit, 320 holes. How's that for boring. Can anyone top that?
Josh Great job on the cylinder 👍 Great job on getting it done done with what you had to work with. That cylinder is bored way more accurately than it was new I’d like to know how many of the “experts’ have ever run a HBM let alone own one
Josh I have my own shop. We have a Ceruti AB 75 HBM that we have had for over 25 years. Probably getting a little past it’s prime but it gets the job done. We have done cylinders, vacuum pump housings, pump housings, bearing housing exactly the same way. I’m sure you have seen how boring tools were positioned 100 years ago. Locked in with wedges You did a fine job 👍
@ I made an adapter to mount a Bridgeport head on the Ceruti as well as my #3 CH K&T horizontal mill. I’ve done some interesting projects on both let alone it can be handy in a pinch. The Head came from a free Bridgeport save. It was missing the table. Have no idea of the history. Didn’t ask a whole lot of questions
I'm confused. Did the job get completed and is it round? So what difference does it make how you set it up and what machine you used. If you could have designed a tool so you could accomplish the same thing on a shaper, then that's the way it got done. The outcome is all that matters. Good on you Josh.
On a combuston engine cross hatch is to wear the cylinder to match the rings quicker. that reduces pressure to the crankcase where is oil is quicker. I assume you know this. With oil infused steam l dont think it would be needed. I would talk to the ring manufacture to get there opinion
Hi Josh, don't let the adverse comments effect you. It's the internet and it's full of "Experts" who probably don't know which end of a hammer to hold, I learn stuff from every one of your video's. It's great to see a highly skilled pro doing his thing. Keep smiling. Best regards Sarah
Thanks Sarah! I actually find it amusing how stupid these people really are. I'd love to see them try have the stuff I do.
@@TopperMachineLLC Just arm chair machinists. I watched your setup and you did fine. One thing I would do is level your machine so the Quill doesn't have that error when it extends.
On the project list.
One of the definitions of an EXPERT: In math, science, and engineering, X is an unknown quantity; a SPURT is a drip under pressure. Go figure.
To quote the illustrious Teddy Roosevelt “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who
points out how the strong man stumbles, or
where the doer of deeds could have done
them better. The credit belongs to the man
who is actually in the arena…”
You are that man and I appreciate your craftsmanship.
I'm not a machinist by trade . I was a welder, pipefitter for 35 years now retired. In my experience take 3 different tradesman give them a project and they will go about it 3 different ways and use different tools according to what is personal preference and tools available. Not saying any of the ways are wrong. YOU decided what would work best for YOU! YOU are happy with the results so who cares what anyone else thinks! I love your content. Wish we were closer I have a couple of pins I need grease ports machined however shipping from eastern WV would be cost prohibitive, best wishes and happy holidays from Rexy.
On shipping, do you not have things shipped to you all the time? Order online and a few days later it arrives? You don't have to go anywhere to get what you need. Shipping is far cheaper than your time and fuel to drive around to find a shop to do the job. I'd be happy to help with your pins.
The honing was very interesting to see. The cylinder is going to be a long lasting part... nice job.
two sayings come to mind; it ain't stupid if it works and necessity is the mother of invention.
A steam loco recently going through the same, cylinders bored, new pistons, new piston rings, super heated cylindrical slide valves bored, new pistons, piston rings, all packings remade from scratch. The loco got assembled, tested, adjusted and pulled a train september 30, year 2024. Great success.
Much of the work was done like You did it. All piston rings were made from cast iron, pistons made in steel.
Good work!
Josh, You go to great lengths to explain your processes and for many we appreciate it, I suspect however you are allowing the Internet Trolls to get under your skin because you are genuinely concerned to do a good job. Please don't let them get to you, treat them as they are - like an annoying barking dog or living next to a railway yard after a while the Trolls are just background noise you don't even hear. The Trolls never thank you for taking the trouble to reply and revel in the fact they got a rise out of you. Keep up the good work.
I actually find their comments amusing. They show just how little they actually know. I'd love to see them try even a quarter of the things I do on a regular basis.
Josh, my piece of advice is to not acknowledge, respond or interact with any of the trolls and haters. You are obviously the professional and as they say everyone has an opinion. Some are good and some are not worth reading. Delete the offensive one and ignore the rest. Great channel and keep the videos coming.
Hey Josh
You're a pretty sharp dude. Don't let the internet get you down. Just keep "doing right the first time". The internet has soooo many "back seat drivers. Looking forward to your next video.
Thank you. I appreciate your support.
Good to see you today. You did the best that you could do with what you have. As long as you are happy with it, that is all that matters. You took off what was needed and it is still safe to use. Thanks for the extra work that you do to make the videos. Your videos are always interesting and educational.
Josh you made it right . Please continue in your work. Greetings from Germany.
Glad you enjoyed it! I appreciate the support!
Josh, you did it the right way! There wasn’t anything wrong with the way you did it. You do the job with the machines that you have. Forget the comments from the would be machinists.
I'll second that. You know best what tooling you have available and what's worked for you in the past. There's always a different way if you have different tools available. But, better?
I'll also comment that maintenance shops for steam engines a hundred years ago did not have all the fancy equipment that we have available today. And certainly did not have indexable carbide tools. This was built using tools that we'd consider to be crude today. And, it's lasted a hundred years.
I will admit that I'd wondered at if there were other surfaces that would benefit from truing up. But again, this was built to different standards than we have today. And, the design was probably made taking into account that rebuilds might be a bit crude. So, you've looked at those surfaces and would have noticed pitting to the point of not sealing and would do something about it if needed.
In my case, I spent some time in a small lot, high precision shop doing mostly military subcontract work. And a bit of maintenance work for a client that rebuilt canning and packing equipment. Working on those different types of equipment taught me that machining is not the same in all vocations. And that you have to work to the standards of that specific equipment.
Some of the work that you do is interesting to me simply because it's so different to what I'm used to.
Thanks for the videos! I love learning about things like this! Sorry to hear people are skeptical about things they don't know about.
The only criticism worth your attention would come from those who had re-built their own steam engine. All others are noise.
You're doing great! I look forward to watching your project come together.
I always read all the comments as there are generally some good comments with actual knowledge I can take away. Sometimes those knowledgeable comments come across as a-holes, but I still take away some good info. The really dumb comments you can tell they have no idea about anything.
Hi Josh, you've done well. I fully machined a half scale Burrell Agricultural Traction Engine Cylinder and Weighshaft Bracket earlier this year, big job about 150 hours total. Yes big job setting up and dialing in. I tried using the spindle feed and found the bore to be tapering, locked the spindle and used table feed, perfect. I use a Brazed Tool with 60 degree included angle, sharp point for roughing, 1mm radius for finish pass, then hone. We use Alloy pistons in the models, 6160 Alloy nice to machine. Plenty of clearance and plain Cast Iron Rings. Remember that the crosshead holds the piston central so the piston doesn't really touch the bore.
I use a combination of Co-Axial and Dial Indicator for set up. What we do today is more than accurate for what was done 100 years ago. Looking forward to seeing it in steam. All the best from Brisbane Australia.
Fascinating project expert workmanship 👏 Congratulations from Aotearoa New Zealand 🇳🇿
I'm glad you like the video!
From a guy who has boiled water for a living starting in 86 in the US Navy two 600 MW power plants. I have been designing a quadruple expansion, reciprocating steam engine. To power a generator. Doomsday kind of thing to prevent having to use oil in the steam to lubricate the cylinders I have investigated using PTFE/bronze piston rings, actually just square O-rings since they can be stretched over the piston. As far as the piston I’ve investigated using 7075 aluminum or bronze or breast. I do not want to introduce oil into the steam because I was going to design a closed loop system to eliminate or greatly reduce water consumption.
A condensing system, A.D. Baker actually experimented with that, but it failed due to oil separation issues. Google, A.D. Baker Steam Tractor. A few still exist, they were 300PSI systems. Pretty cool, too bad it failed.
did 1 steam cylinder myself, it was a hard setup and clock in and the wear was bad, had to take out a lot more than the customer anticipated and yes they had to make a new piston and rings. Well done Josh. AAA+
To anyone criticizing the use of the horizontal boring mill for the piston bore. I would reference them to watts steam engine, as one of the first machine tools ever made was a horizontal boring mill for steam engine bores.
So you could say that machine was literally built for that job. 😊😊😊
Your work will always speak for itself.
Thanks for answering the questions good and bad. Your set up looked fine to me. And the results looked perfect. I think the honing was above and beyond but as you had a friendly shop that could do it, it just finished the job off. As you mentioned the conditions for saturated steam in a cylinder are quite different to internal combustion engines, as even without emulsified oil the steam, the vapour droplets act as a lubricant in their own right. For various reasons I’ve been unable to get my own Mclaren single cylinder traction engine out in the UK for a number of years but it’s safely under cover and periodically I turn the flywheel over with one hand to make sure the piston remains free. It still moves so freely that it still comes to rest on the the weight of the unbalanced crank axle. Looks like you have another 300 years of life in your cylinder yet.
Thanks for the video Josh. Always interesting to hear your feedback and point of view.
Wishing you all the best!
I'm enjoying watching the progress and trying to learn about steam engines for fun.
Josh I have no knowledge of the details of steam engines but in my 50+ years of gasoline and diesel experience the cylinder wall finish is dependent on the ring material used and clearance needed for the piston. Just my two cents, I'm very interested in the rest of the build.
Hi Josh: I am an EE Have worked with fellows that have “Golden hands”. I do believe that you do also. The name of the game is “You have to have the tools” to do most work, like yourself. You have to work with what you have and are familiar with. This is what you do deserves an "ATTABOY"!! Don’t allow people to second guess you. You do take the time to weigh the options and take the one that you are most familiar with. Believe me when I say - If I needed either a new part or one fixed, you would be the first one I would go to. I do watch another fellow, who is also good, but you really are a very nice and good at what you do. Keep up the good work.
Hey Josh, I enjoy your videos and always learn something. I am a woodworker and marvel at the precision to which machinists work. Hope your work load picks up.
Thank you.
Great listening to your theories on how and why you've done the machining operations a particular way. Cheers Tony
A few years ago we rebuilt a rusted 9x14 Tangye engine. Had the cylinder bored on a boring mill at the local company A&G Price in Thames. Removed about 0.125 in diameter from the bore hence most of the rust pits. A few pits remained but the ring width was wide enough to pass over. No honing not required. Piston was increased in diameter by braising and re machined. New rings were turned from a cast iron ring to size then heated to make correct gap. No machine to reface the slide valve surface so used the D valve that I had machined and scraped to match. A new piston rod was made also. Engine runs well at the Goldmine experience in Thames New Zealand.
Your set up was correct, SQUARE to the gland end of cylinder and clocked to cylinder length.
Hello Josh. I think the way you did it was probably the best way when using an HBM. Assuming the valve chest surface is square to the cross head-end flange of the cylinder it makes for an easy, rigid set up. If those surfaces were not square then the valve chest surface could be shimmed to get the flange square, again relatively simple and rigid.
I learned a valuable lesson about dialing in bores early on when I first started using my HBM. If you want to dial in both ends of a bore (to align the axis of the bore with the spindle of the HBM) then extend the spindle out far enough to reach the far end and then move the table, not the spindle, to get to each end of the bore for dialling. This ensures that any spindle droop (and there is always spindle droop) is constant at each end. This is similar to boring by feeding with the table, not the spindle.
Spindle droop has the effect of lowering the axis of rotation at the end of the spindle relative to that part of the spindle nearest the headstock. If you dial in one bore with the spindle retracted you are essentially dialing in to that axis and when you extend out to the far end of the bore you end up dialling it in to a lower axis. This gives a false indication on whether the bore is parallel to the table in the vertical plane.
There are so many traps and pitfalls a guy can get into when using a HBM it is no wonder that traditionally the machinists that ran them were the highest paid in the shop. Keep up the good work. Ken
Thanks Josh for a fine video. I agree with Loyd. I watched the other video too and maybe I'll watch again. I like many of your viewers learn things that we don't think about normally. Thanks for your fine business
Personally, I think it turned out beautiful. I'd bet the farm that it's better than when it was new.
For some reason there's a lot of recliner machinists out there that know everything about things they've never even seen before.
The honing was icing on the cake.
I probably would have hit it with a 320 flapper wheel to knock the peaks off and ran it!
Nice job, Josh!
Yep, watch some TH-cam videos and become an expert. I'd love to see these people attempt a quarter of what I do. Lol. Would make some comical videos.
I really enjoy your videos! I've done some machining in my life and fully understand what you're doing, and why. Don't let the know nothings get you down, I wish I could be there to work with you to learn more about a craft that I love doing.
Spot on Mr. Topper. Real superheated steam is a Dry Hot and can be invisible, dangerous gas and power is exponential to Steam pressure to the piston surface area that as you stated is driven on both sides. Seeing Jay Leno Steam shop and steam cars especially the Doble he tells it as it is a huge powerful push like The Hand of God.. so all the steps you are taking Josh are the correct ones .
I used to run a machine shop for an absentee owner. The shop owned the patterns for 35 Liberty Ships built in Portland Oregon during WWII....
We'd receive an order from a repair yard for all of the live steam parts as needed for overhaul. We'd pull the drawings, search and pull patterns, and send them to the foundry for casting. We would specify the formula of gray iron, receive back the patterns with parts...
We often made pistons, rings, sleeves, and other cast parts for pulleys, capatans, etc
The closest we came to doing anything with the bore was a low feed rate, light cut with either the lathe or horizontal boring mill.
We package and wood crate the parts as requested and ship open accout to all kinds of strange companies all over the world that still had these old ships in service.
Of course, with time the orders slowed as these old ships were scrapped...
We knew by the master part brake down, what parts fit what ships...
The owners dad, had bought the whole package at auction at the end of WWII as the ship yard closed... I've often ponder a lot of questions I never asked...
Thought your readers might like my thoughts... that was 60's - 70's....
Enjoy your work, thanks
haters gotta hate... don't let it get you down!!!
Thanks for sharing. Thanks for the question and answer of the comments. Yes your engine your best work.
Opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one...keep up the great work and don't concern yourself with the backseat drivers and know-it-alls 💪
I honestly find their comments and suggestions amusing. Shows just how little they know.
You got the job done with the equipment you had available and it turned out right. What more could anyone want?
Nice finish, Josh. Hope you didn't "bored" while you were getting it honed (I know it's old and corny, but I'm old and couldn't help myself!)! Thanks for the update and I hope you and yours have a peaceful and merry Christmas. Cheers.
Lol. I actually enjoyed learning about honing and even learned how to use the honing bench. Merry Christmas to you too.
Hi Josh,
Did it work? Yes. Are you happy with the result? Yes. Then however you did it was not stupid. In fact it was perfect because it worked which is all that matters in the end. Let's see the whiners actually get this job done. Yeah... Thought so.
On a different note... I am all for cooling but DANG! That was some nasty looking coolant on that boring machine! I would not want to clean that up afterwards! :)
Take care and all the best from California!🧡
Honing oil gets ugly fast. Nasty stuff.
As an old diesel fitter, i fully agree that honing was the right option.
Thanks, Josh. I appreciate these follow up videos. I know only a little about steam engines in general, so this satisfies my curiosity a bit more. Learning is living and living is learning.
I never read the comments or replies on other's videos, so I have no idea the level of lunacy that your viewers are portraying. There was a channel I watched for years that recently had his account terminated. 1000+ videos. 80M views. 220K subs. Almost 20 years of effort. From what I gather, he repeatedly violated community standards in his replies to comments from people who wouldn't know the difference between their anal sphincter and a steam cylinder bore. Not that you are doing that, my point is that, it is my humble opinion that everytime you respond to them, it feeds the fire. I don't even acknowledge their existence.
Hi Josh,
Really great to see you working on your engine. I'm a steam fan myself and my job was making copper boilers, for model locomotives, up to 7.5" gauge ,traction engines in fact any engine that needed a boiler. I shipped them all over the world. So i know like you what its like to work long hours. Please make more vidioes of ypur engine, looking forward to them.😢😢6😮
Thanks for the support! I have a lot of work to do on this engine. More videos will be coming in the next year.
1. Well done. As you said, it'll be the best it possibly can be now. The larger angle plate with the smaller hole in it might have been used to set up but I enjoyed your method. If you ask a dozen engineers how to do something you'll get a dozen methods. I probably would have bought some inserts for cast as they do work really well. Keep working and producing the videos. Always interesting. Bob UK.
I agree, there are many ways to do the same job.
The first video and this explanation all seemed logical to me. Thank you for sharing and I hope your workflow picks up.
I hope it does too!
Well sometimes......it doesn't have to be perfect, doesn't even have to be good, it just has to be good enough. Really enjoy the videos.
It is definitely perfect compared to what they did in 1917. Lol
Greetings from the oldest town in Texas, Nacogdoches. Hope you’re keeping warm up there. Nice work.
It's awful cold. 20s and high humidity. I'd take -20 anyway over this.
It is 57 and rainy here. Fortunately East Texas winters are incredibly mild, because we are not used to cold and icy weather.
Hi Josh, Some of those people making stupid comments and probably haven't worked on anything like that. Welding up ??? One word - ridiculous. Anyway it looks good and should work 100%.Cheers Ian
Thank you Josh!
Hey Josh, I really enjoy your content, especially how you talk about the real financial challenges your area is facing... keeping it real. Thank you.
You’re right it is yours. You did it best way possible I think you’re right on the money and it’s probably just as good or even better than when it rolled out of a Baker’s plant when it was built job well done we never had to get into that depth of rebuild with our engine. Ours was just steering issues and clutch shoes, which were a nightmare on a Port Huron.
I'm glad you never had to go this deep. It's been a job for sure. I had to repair the clutch on a Nichols a vmfew years ago. There is a video.
WHEN I HAVE A JOB.... I look at what i have, and what I have to do to complete the job, or if I can. I dont ask, "What would Jesus do"? Or, what would a shop with every tool ever made, ran by NASA, and demanding .00005 tolerance with calculated expansion to 1500f. I do what I can. I applaud your work, and as you said, most dont know how steam works, or they would have no clue how it ran at all with that egg shaped gouged up cylinder, stuck rings and shaft seal leaks. Great Job!
hi Josh i am baker by trade but i build 4" Traction engine made my own bronze rings and honed my bore with a drill driven hone stones but my bores are 2.250 diameter many thanks for all your videos they help me with my jobs STEVE FORM THE UK
Thanks for the follow up video, my 42 inch Bullard VTL would have loved to bore the cylinder. Only 500 miles from you hope things pick up soon , have a Merry Christmas
I would love a 52 Bullard. Sadly no need for one.
Hi Josh & it's is Randy and i like yours video is Cool & Thanks Josh & Friends Randy
Always great Josh…is that a big Lathe Dawg barking at the beginning of honing…cheers, Paulie❤
Lol. That just sonny. He is a pup yet. Not mine.
@@TopperMachineLLClove all you do Josh…Paulie
Good discussion on your methods and the reason for your route.
Unbelievable someone suggested bore welding on graphite cast iron.
Thanks for sharing Josh.
I know, there were a few dumb comments like that. You can tell who's channels they watch. LOL
Go with what works. GOOD JOB.
glad you did it.
Love the sound of a BAKER!!!
Howdy from France.
Thanks!
Thank you very much
Job well done!
I enjoyed your video. From my scale model machining of 2 steam engines I'm certain you're the right track. I bet it was hissing a lot and lacked a "bark". The proper sealing of the cylinder and a good slide valve face will greatly improve it. My little 3/4" bore engines can run on 2 psi. I do cheat with polymer O-rings though.
Yup, that's cheating. Lol
Piss on the haters. Keep up the great channel. I really hope you get more work soon.
Hi Josh, I appreciate your sharing the work you are doing on your engine. It's nice to see work being performed on a larger steam engine that isn't a locomotive. I made a 10" diameter aluminum Low Pressure piston for our 1909 Doty compound Marine Steam engine in out 40' steamboat. It is a two-piece piston hollowed out as much as i was comfortable, made out of 6061 aluminum, and sized with thermal expansion at450*F steam temp in mind.. I sealed it on the mating surface where the two pieces met, and had it hard anodized. After 7 years and 5,000 miles of steaming at 6mph and 200rpm (minimal internal lubrication because it's a condensing steam plant), there has been no wear to the piston or cylinder. Mind you, this is a vertical engine, versus your horizontal. The ring heights are obscenely tall (Dad was insistent on using same height rings... 5/8"!!!), and even with those heavy rings the ring lands have not suffered. The initial intent was a lighter piston and more closely match the HP and LP piston weights as the cast iron original was 30lbs heavier than the HP! With being pretty conservative with the piston thickness I was still able to get the weight within 5lbs of the HP piston. Well worth the time and effort.
Thanks for the information, it's very helpful.
@@TopperMachineLLC you're very welcome. I look forward to watching your progress
Good morning Josh.
I absolutely agree with you and "Your" decisions to do everything you did from setup to machining.
There was nothing wrong with your way and procedures in boring the steam engine.
You did it yourself, the best way you could.
I am certainly glad you decided to hone the cylinder.
Do you know how much was removed during honing and was it pretty true?
Looks great.
Thanks Josh have a great week. 👍🇺🇸👍
I don't know what we actually took out. I'll be measuring it when I order the rings. Hopefully, it will be around the first of the year. I'll use the bore Guage and check out everything.
Really ool project👍
Love the little Carlton in yhe background
Hello from San Antonio, TEXAS!
Looks good Josh! Keep on keeping on. There is more than one way to skin a cat. If I had to do the same thing you did here I would have done it much the same. As you said, HBMs are made for boring!!. Honing is one of my favorite little niches in machining. I don't have a hone large enough for that cylinder though!
Nice, Good job
Oil-circuit-engines are quite different from steam-engines concerning the lubrication. On the other hand: honing is mandatory for 2-stroke-cylinders, too.
I don't know if honing makes sense in a steam cylinder, but I assume that honing should create no problems at least...
Finally: VERY interesting content!!! 👍👍👍
One question. Did it work?
Answer, yes.
No more questions.
6 millionths of an inch per degree per inch for steel and 12 millionths of an inch per degree per inch for aluminum. Those are the numbers we use to compensate for measuring aluminum with steel tooling. These numbers will work for all steels and all aluminum.
yes, but this is cast iron. My concern is how accurate will these numbers be? Different grades of cast iron, different grades of aluminum? I have some research to do.
So many keyboard experts. You are sharp. 👍
Yep, it's funny how little people know.
Excellent response to the idiotic critics who know nothing about the cost of tooling! I really liked this video for putting them in their place 😁. Like you said, you work with what you've got.
Wishing you and yours all the very best. Cheers.
I really had to laugh when you said that someone suggested welding up the bore and boring it with a line borer. That must be the joke of the century!
There were a few of them. Dumb, just dumb.
I know that some steam cylinders were not honed or cross hatched, just a good finish from the boring as you had done and they worked just fine. Don't listen to the nay sayers! I personally have recently become very interested in ceramics for cylinders and pistons for steam... The possibilities are amazing!
Steam cylinders was normally sleeved with cast iron, but this was only where water quality was very bad, . Steam cylinder best practice was to chrome the sleeve thickly as , it being shiny ,it reflected more heat back to steam that would otherwise condense,esspecialy with wet steam. Dry steam would obviously need more oil of higher quality ( good steam oil) With new pistons the amount of piston-rings can be doubled up by making them thinner and of course they must be the exact diammeter of the sleeve with zero pressure on the sleeve walls when fitted . One very small hole in each ring seat open to each steam side wil press each ring lightly to the sleeve walls by means of pressure underneath the pistonring. Say 6-8 rings per piston will make it about 100% steam tight during operation. In the steam days practice was 2 or 3 rings on the piston and in opperation they lost about 25% of available steam from one side to the other and being tollerated was a major reason why diesels came along. Ithink , steam, when properly designed is much more efficient than diesel as the SouthAfrican 25 class locomotive that became the sole 26 class called the "Red Devil" proved in the early eighties.
I personally appreciate you videos. However, I am going to have bill you for several large older machines. And a new building to house them. Various tooling as well! I plan to make a ton of small pieces out of a few big pieces! Thanks Josh, keep the faith.
Steam engine technology has been in existence since the start of the 19th Century - it was maintained by machine tools that barely worked back in the day. Virtually anything you do will be better than existed when your steam engine was manufactured.
The best players are sitting among the spectators it's said in sports....
Lol
I would be interested to see this cross hatching tool and how it's used
Unfortunately if you do something or don't do something, no matter how high a standard you work to, there will always be people out there who reckon you are dumb and they know better. It comes with the territory of making TH-cam videos. Keep doing what you are doing. Self taught 73 yr old machinist/mechanic in Land Down Under.
Most people with there comments are those that only see steam coming off there coffee cup,lol 😂. Just do what you do, great video.
Can you please explain why you will be making an aluminum piston rather than cast iron which would avoid different coefficients of expansion? I'm sure you have a VERY good reason from which we can learn. Keep up the good work.
I will address all of this when I make the piston.
I don't do full size steam but have made a couple dozen model steam engines including a couple of 1/8 scale locomotives. I didn't see anything you did that i wouldn't do.
Cross hatch is not needed, your seals will work well enough in there, and the rings, with a good coating of bronze, will want to run on a smooth surface anyway to reduce wear. Remember the original was cast, rough machined and then honed with coarse grit, then just polished a little, then was run. A little bit of bypass steam will make no difference, the original one would have, from new, had a lot less perfect surface than what you have now, and it will be moot anyway in 6 months of running, as there will always be slight pitting from the steam and condensed water, so, as long as the outside seals are good and do not leak, and the shaft seal is packed nicely with graphite packing, or PTFE, which works well over the old oakum, lead and wax with oil seals they had back then, it will be better than new.
Thanks for the information, I appreciate the advice!
Sean has it right as far as I know. The nice cross hatch pattern is just the honing finish. You've gone beyond that and anything you do would just rough up the nice surface that you have.
As I understand it, you do want a bit of roughness when using steel rings so the rings actually wear a bit as they seat into the bore. That gives a machined in place seal. But, with fancy rings like you are considering that may indeed be bad. I'd talk to the folks making the rings and ask them what finish they suggest. If they say that you are too smooth, then roughing things up a bit might make sense.
Based on the original video I was thinking that you were just getting some form of steel ring and that the bore that you had would be great to seat them in.
The one thing that I would consider is that these machines were designed to be used daily. So, they were getting fresh steam with steam oil every use. No time for corrosion to build up. In your case, this will probably sit a lot between uses. So, running an oil rich mix has a better chance of leaving oil in place while this sits for weeks or months between uses.
Oh and please do go into detail about the differences between the reciprocating components of steam vs IC engines. There are plenty of people like me who have a decent working knowledge of IC engines but have no more than basic conceptual knowledge of reciprocating steam engines.
Shit hot very well done 👍
Great, vid man,
I like to see many different approaches to a problem and thats what you give to us mortals because the available tools is a must for many of us as we all dont have a fully equipped machine shops.
As my old boss once said: Everyone has an opinion but it doesn't make that opinion right and, of course, there are many ways to skin a cat.
Maybe you could leave the negative comments in and just add a donkey icon in the reply so we can all have a good laugh. 😂
I only remove the really nasty and attacking comments. Most of the stupid ones stay. Generally I reply with something about the follow-up.
Can you show us the old piston?
When I do the piston video.
@@TopperMachineLLC I think many of your viewers will be surprised when they see what a steam engine piston looks like.
Aluminum seems unusual for a steam engine piston. Sure, models are often made out of aluminum because of its ease of machining. I would stick to oem materials. Making a pattern and having a piston cast is not an ordeal. The balance of reciprocating parts would be different if an aluminum part was inserted where designers before had cast iron.
Many engines are out there with aluminum pistons now. Many with several years of run time. I'm not concerned.
I'm curious why aluminum just for ease of machining? Durabar is readily available in disks that would work to make a piston as well. The piston in my Ames engine appears to be hollow cast iron which seems odd but maybe done to keep weight down since it is a fairly large engine at 11" bore? Is that normal or are most solid
I'm also curious about the choice of aluminum vs iron. Does it simply come down to availability?
And you're definitely right about whether folks understand steam or not, there's a world of difference between steam and internal combustion engines; almost the only similarity is the shape of the cylinder :).
While we are discussing boring ... A while back, you mentioned that drilling holes was boring. I've just been putting up shelves, so I had to drill 400 holes in 3/4" square tubing on my drill press, but as I was drilling right through, that's actually 800 holes. Then light countersink with a hand drill to de-burr the 800 holes. Then 80 shelves, drilling out the four 3/16" holes to 1/4" on each shelf, then de-burring with a countersink bit, 320 holes. How's that for boring. Can anyone top that?
Josh
Great job on the cylinder 👍
Great job on getting it done done with what you had to work with.
That cylinder is bored way more accurately than it was new
I’d like to know how many of the “experts’ have ever run a HBM let alone own one
Right on
Josh
I have my own shop. We have a Ceruti AB 75 HBM that we have had for over 25 years. Probably getting a little past it’s prime but it gets the job done. We have done cylinders, vacuum pump housings, pump housings, bearing housing exactly the same way. I’m sure you have seen how boring tools were positioned 100 years ago. Locked in with wedges
You did a fine job 👍
@GeorgeBracht ceruti is a neat machine. If I didn't already have the Lucas, I would have bought a ceruti with a vertical attachment.
@
I made an adapter to mount a Bridgeport head on the Ceruti as well as my #3 CH K&T horizontal mill. I’ve done some interesting projects on both let alone it can be handy in a pinch. The Head came from a free Bridgeport save. It was missing the table. Have no idea of the history. Didn’t ask a whole lot of questions
Hi Josh, I was curious what the piston to cylinder wall clearance would be on an engine that size ?
To be determined yet.
I'm confused. Did the job get completed and is it round? So what difference does it make how you set it up and what machine you used. If you could have designed a tool so you could accomplish the same thing on a shaper, then that's the way it got done. The outcome is all that matters. Good on you Josh.
If the oil is there already, is cross hatch necessary? Or. Is it to breakin rings? Very interesting, love your thought process!
That is the real question. Oil is atomizer in the steam, carried into the cylinder. Cross hatching may not be necessary.
On a combuston engine cross hatch is to wear the cylinder to match the rings quicker. that reduces pressure to the crankcase where is oil is quicker.
I assume you know this.
With oil infused steam l dont think it would be needed.
I would talk to the ring manufacture to get there opinion
Me, I enjoy these follow-up videos, hoping you get too busy for the midweek updates
Hi, Siri.
In this application, honing would be a good idea?