1997 Darwin Wind Turbines - Is Bigger Better?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2023
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Inserting a small darwin turbine into every street lamp in the country with grid feed in during the day is my idea of the day.
I've seen that suggested for all along highways to capture the wind from passing vehicles.
Yes! I think Ventum would do very well to pick a few standard sizes and mass produce them to get the costs onto a learning curve. That's how you land geometric price improvements over time.
I'd LOVE to see a little one of these on every light post, telephone, and electric pole!!
@@mookiemorjax887-3412
good idea
@mookiemorjax Imagine that, hundreds of thousands of these working in unison. Those are dangerous thoughts. It almost as if you'd remove the fear of a central power attack and go green all at the same time. No, I've got to stop yee, before it's too late.
There and back again, Mr. Smith! Thanks for these adventures!
by the time you have taken into account transmission losses and transformer losses, generating nearer the point of use makes considerable sense
Generation of energy via any abundant untapped existing source is a win regardless of losses, since wind is created by the uneven heating of the planet it's a solar driven process and as show can be easily built and remain mostly passive, some farm land with a wall of these charging a battery bank would be nice and excess generation could be used to heat a sand battery that a heating system could use to heat ducted air off of like a cars heating system
for sure mate
I love your videos. You give practical applications for the laws of physics and you present them in an easily understandable format. These should be atop every building in cities to diversify the grid, and to lessen the load on the grid.
Watching Robert wander around the pier with one arm out, in his Dr Who outfit, while he narrates math and science; it's just blissful.
Additional benefit is that the bearing wear is more uniform when the shaft is oriented vertically.
Im not quite sure that's entirely accurate since bearings have tight tolerances
No mate, if bearing wear is an issue, this design will increase that wear since the loading on the fan blades will be lopsided due to the ducting.
Downside being ice buildup during winter storms.
thrust bearings are what you would use in this application
nice one mate - cheers
What i really like about this is that when its rotating the wind is "lifting" the turbine against gravity which should in turn place less weight and friction on the bearings ,if this means faster speed and less required maintenance then i feel its a winner on soo many levels!! Love your work Rob!!🤓🙌💫
did it?
Well done Rob, it does remember me of our trip to England and Scotland in our Mobile Home Van driving all around in the lovely lake district and later in the highlands... Nice trip.❤❤❤
I Remember watching sea lions on the Shore line in northern England, but I don't remember anymore where exactly it was..
But it was just great and also really windy there... So these new Wind turbines could really help 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻❤️❤️❤️
the lake district is awesome mate
Hahaha, this is so amazing! I'm actually now applying for a job at one of those offshore wind farms as a maintenance service tech😁
Please keep your fingers crossed 😊
And as personally i much preffer your idea about much more small and local units, I think it would be an amazing experience to find out how those bigh things work.
This is the one I have always liked wind concentrating devices. Reduce the dynamic stresses and the size of the moving parts. This one also has the advantage that if the actual turbine fails and flies apart it is contained in a structure.
Great stuff, really nice to see. That paving almost looked like sand too. 😄
It does!
That suit looks like you should be in H.G. Wells The Time Machine,, classics never go out of style.
no they don't lol
This also improves on the wind-catcher cooling ventilation system seen in Iran (aka badgir). If the bottom of this wind catcher is places on top of a chimney, it will help draw warm air up and out of the home. In times of low wind, the turbine may be run as a motor to cool the home still. Best for dry climates where a humidity difference between inside and outside the climate-controlled area is not priority. Although perhaps the darwin might still have utility for flowing air across air conditioner coils in a closed-window home without inside-outside air exchange, but that's likely not an important use case since power is needed continuously to run the air compressor motor and continuous air flow across the coils is needed
for sure
Love your shows, sir! You do love your generators, and I appreciate that.
One thing you do *not* talk about...the dirty little secret of the Green Energy movement. Those gigantic wind turbine blades - they do not last long....the blades wear out rather quickly, more so as they get larger. Given that they are made of composites, and mostly Carbon Fiber, and none of them are *recyclable* , the worn out blades do tend to be trucked off and dumped *where no-one can see them* . This, in itself, is an argument against BIGGER - and for other methods of turbine generation, and power generation in general.
Keep up the good work sir!
Composites can be recycled via pyrolisis or some weird reaction with their resins.
Modern blades are composed of half fiberglass and carbon and are recyclable into fiberglass and synthetic gas, which is already being commercially done.
But they did find a way to recycle those blades and turn them into gummy bears for our kids!
Isn’t that wonderful?
For what it's worth, there was some recent news about recyclable blades that were *inflatable*! In any case, I do like the idea that nearer is better.
i have done videos on it mate
2023 and the videos still looks like super8 movies ^^. but i like the content everytime
These types are good because they can easily be mounted on the top of flats, shopping centres, schools, etc where it is just impossible to put the tall windmill style ones.
i agree mate
Imagine a bunch of these dispersed on one of those giant, flat factory roofs...
"Nearer is better" I can't agree more. Remote locations for power production come at the cost of huge inefficiencies due to increased electrical resistance over long distances. I'd like homes to be capable of producing and storing the energy they need.
me too!
Hello from Detroit Michigan USA Great video Brother thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise and for taking us on your adventure through Science
i am glad you enjoyed it mate
Great video! Answered my questions about the origin of the design that I had from watching your other vids... Thanks...
I think that you may be the "new" Professor Julius Sumner Miller that I grew up watching about physics on public television...
We are living in a very good times indeed Robert. The number of improvements are really just impressive for the wind turbines. This will definitely give humanity the upper hand over the fossil fuel industry for sure. Way to go fella with the great news .... Thanks ....
i thought it was awesome too mate
@@ThinkingandTinkering I like you calling things as you see them fella.....
0:34. The walk of confidence
'Robert .. the wiz......he's the wizard'
I walk like that when I've slipped a disk in my back.
@@xMeta4x lol
lol - cheers mate
oddly enough I have a slipped disk
@@ThinkingandTinkering That's my internet medical degree completed!
Looking at the design, I wonder if a track bearing mounted snorkel mounted on top would increase the pressure differential across the rotating member.
Thinking you've got a structurally sound parabolic venturi array to collect and redirect the captured air vertically through the turbine blades.
The effective pressure on the turbine blades is a direct effect of the velocity of the captured air mass.
Let's say just for giggles, that at sea level, the collector processes 3500 cubic meters of air at 30 kg/sq, meter input pressure as measured at the turbine blades.
A snorkel in the wind would act as a venturi; increasing the pressure differential across the blades thereby increasing the overall torque to overcome starting and loaded resistance.
you could try a model mate
Your best video ever. Thanks.
Great video , thank you
cheers mate
Hey Robert, love what you do and am inspired every video! Didn't quite know how to reach you ohterwise. I noticed that you're quite light hearted about sharing locations and where you film. I appreciate how open you are and that you're just thinking about taking us along the journey with you. Just do be careful with the size of your fanbase (and especialy where I think you're going fanbase wise), most are careful not to share things that can lead strangers who feel like they know you to your home. (Feel free to delete my comment when you've read it ;) )
You are right there a crazy people out there.
Yes! Drop your smile, your laughter and your good humour and start living un fear. You will feel so much better !
@@sylviekoenig9960 Of course not. Just be aware of it.
I meet folks all the time who are followers - just on the street - It's nice to say hi
Thank you for the uplifting video. The vest and pocket watch was fun to see. The casual English attire. I guess they only turn it turbine on at night to light the lights, no back up batteries I guess.
i think the test period was over so thy locked it down
Brilliant Rob
Bless Up
glad you liked it mate
What sort of outputs were they getting at Skegness Pier? One of the various wind power operators in 2015 used this concept with a bunch of one meter diameter turbines stacked in the gathered flow. and even then the idea looked pretty sane- I don't think that company survived itself- but having a great idea and actually bringing it to market, price point and all of that.
RMT, heat loss from roads and buildings will be generally higher. Putting a row of DWTs above the road or buiilding would create a draft, bringing a breeze from the sides to remove the waste heat. The town would get cooler and produce electricity from waste heat. Win - Win! Cheers!
there is a win win mate
What happened to the Ventum Dynamics wind turbine at the end of the Skegness pier in Skegness, England? A November 2023 video showed a rope tied to the wind turbine blades, which prevented the blades from turning. An April 2024 video showed that the turbine had been removed from the pier.
I really think that this type of wind collector/ generator would work especially well set back a little bit on industrial rooftops. There are so many unused square feet/meters of space that are completely out of public view that can be used for unobtrusive power generation. You could conceivably attach them to large squares of material to keep them in place and run cabling supported off the deck with smaller sealed materials that could just be set on the roof and have a no drilling installation with properly spread weight distribution causing no roof damage, essentially overcoming any logical arguments building owners might have against something like this. I think it could really have a chance especially given that businesses are actively trying to reduce their environmental impact.
your suit is very dapper
cheers mate
I did not know that you were a Time Lord. Good on-ya sir.
lol - only in my dreams mate lol
Given the design, it looks like there is a potential to make it collapsible for portability. Has anyone seen one that does?
No, but you gave me some ideas...
I haven't but a scotch yoke as a track would make it collapsible, in four sections.
i like the thinking mate - you have given me an idea too!! cheers
You mean like, pancake the funnel sections together? Maybe with some kind of scissor mechanism it could be done in one piece, but I'm pretty sure those 4 solid sheet metal vanes around it serve an aerodynamic purpose. Maybe you could make something that snaps together...
@@ThinkingandTinkering waiting for the video then
You're a wizard Robert Murray Smith
This got me thinking... Would it be beneficial to hade one or two more of the "collector rings" above the fan too, to make sure that we get a low pressure above the blades, improving efficiency?
Perhaps using a swivel or a dome anchored above the fan not only protect it from the ring, hail and snow, but can use the venturi effect.
Yes a swivel dome tilted forward about 15° to 30° , adjustable maybe?
With a stylish wind vein to direct it.
Could mount on a lazy Susan berring
Then not only using the pressure and but also the vaccum drawing the wind threw.
A bulging wing and put an elevation and trim tabs too they could help? Not sure...
interesting ideas mate thanks for sharing
Would a cone over the exhaust be a benefit by causing a low pressure area above it?
Having pondered the benefits and disadvantages of both an Upflow Darwin Turbine and a Downflow one, I am thinking that the Upflow is the easiest and most secure.
By the simple fact that the wind it captures shoves it harder into the ground, rather than trying to turn it into a heavy kite.
I think that for urban environments wind walls are the best choice. Unfortunately, I live in a area where wind blows occasionally.
Rob for energy minister.
i wish lol
Love this Wind Catcher VAWT Darwin system. Would you consider devising two connected and opposite direction Darwin turbines - one facing up connected to one facing down?
Memories of catching the train to Herne Bay to work on the old pier skate rink.. :)
Anyway back to the topic.. I wonder if there’s any mileage in an appropriate sized device to sit atop our chimney. I’m aware there’s potential limitations regarding height that might cause issues but seems less invasive than a traditional turbine..
@martinsmallridge4025
Kindly do not mount on said chimney as it will probably cause the chimney to fall and break the turbine as well. If that doesn't happen the chimney heat along Will set it on fire or burn out the generator.
@@reypolice5231 Obviously I'd check the actual stresses for the chimney and we don't use any fires for our chimney now as it's kind of common sense here but I take your points..
like a rotating ventilator?
@@ThinkingandTinkering Something like that I guess. Can't find any information on limits though. Still an interesting question.
@@martinsmallridge4025 A brick chimney will require reinforcement, since there will always be an upwards pull on the windward side, and mortar doesn't handle any appreciable pull. It must be feasible, though: We have setups of that nature on several 19th century buildings' chimneys (chimnies? Ech, grammar) in Denmark 😉
Am wondering whether the Ventum design would increase the wind pressure linearly with the height, if you were to add more funnel layers... 🤔
I would still like to see this coupled to video 1998 The Archimedes Turbine!! This would be an interesting combo.
The disadvantage is the size and weight of the wind turbine with this design. You solve the directional issue but adding a huge amount of additional materials that also cost money. Additionally you are capturing a lot of wind so your structure has be be very very sturdy to survive harsh wind conditions.
Sweet! It would also benefit from being atop a pole, or course, gvien the increase in wind speeds at elevation. Tha real bonus is that it can be used effectively without one. Cheers Robert
Higher is better for wind speed, but I think part.of the appeal is that it's so much simpler and requires less big machines to install at a lower height. If ventum is going for a one-size, or several select sizes approach, mass producing many of the same size will get the cost reductions on a learning curve.
So while up on a pole is certainly better from a raw production perspective, I think it would lose out in many cases to the simplicity.of plunking many of these down easily, and right where you need them. Be well and go have a great day!
for sure mate - or on a roof?
@@mookiemorjax Indeed. About the best Iwind genee I've seen and I got a Post Grad Diploma in Energy Efficient Building 25 years back. Ultimately, each siting would present it's own unique optimum solution. The vertical range of this one is a game changer. I think the point I wanted to make was that the cost of the raised element would have some payback period from the extra power generated for the same wind and a no brainer if finances and regs. allow it. The lateral loads on it would be far less than a standard turbine so the stack could be lighter allround, too. They will form a standard component or even a feature of architecture in no time I reckon. Lets hope its not too late! Cheers pal
@@ThinkingandTinkering Now youre talking, I'm an architect / hippy and this got me commenting! Cheers Robert, all the best
@@davidshelley6598 awesome mate lol
Your last comment is so true. That’s one reason that community solar is a great idea.
solar suffers from similar problems - especially at night! - I suspect a combined approach would be best
@@ThinkingandTinkering of course I agree with you. The advantage of solar in Australia is that for us in urban environments (and over 90% of us here are) solar is quiet. I’m a yacht ie at heart and remember a time when yachts with wind generators were barred. Nobody wants noisy power generators (and I remember your video on nomenclature) nearby.
If we can get small wind generators that output useful amounts of electricity without noise pollution and that don’t cost the earth we would jump on it.
Just curious, what advantage does having multiple cones have over a top and bottom funnel with the space between open?
Do you have any ideas on scrap/waste that could be used to create the louvers for a diy Darwin tower for a small farm power project?
What about a U shaped shroud that pivots with the wind to provide the leeward side with wind to capture?
@RobertMurraySmith >>> FWIW, while watching this video I recalled something, which I HOPE I am remembering correctly, from a science fiction novel I read years ago. I _think_ it was a novelization from the first season {series} of the 1970s British science fiction TV show *SPACE: 1999.*
In the novelization someone briefly discusses a type of wind collection tower for channeling wind through a vertical axis wind turbine. I also think _"Grumman Aerospace"_ was mentioned, but I am not sure. {I have all the first season novelizations. I need to go back through them all and verify this.}
Some years after reading this I found the patent online that details this wind capture system.
Unfortunately, I later read online this type of system does not work as well as originally thought. I am NOT an engineer, so I cannot say for certain if that is correct or not.
It is would be great to direct the wind from it over the A/C radiators to improve efficiency there as well.
Is there any comparison for the Ventum system to conventional wind turbines? Their website appears somewhat low in specs.
Very well dressed sir :)
I don't know if you will see this post, but I just had a thought. What about turning the Darwin turbine upside down? You could possible get it to generate power just by the rain that would fall on the blades. Of course that is when is it raining. Could even be a slight boost when the wind is moving as well.
Anything but a bird mincer! Thank you.
You bet!
How big could these go , if mounted on a barge or floating platform either in estuaries, coastal or off shore ,
And are you olanning on combining one of these with a vertical Archimedes screw ?
The _186 miles_ thing reminded me of a saying:
_"In the UK,_ *100 MILES* _is a long distance."_
_"In the USA,_ *100 YEARS* _is a long time."_
Great video! Always enjoy your videos and your enthusiasm is wonderful. Do you think you could possible make a smaller version for testing? I would like to try myself but my cnc machines don't like the hot temps we have right now, yesterday we hit 122 degrees, the computers that run my machines don't like those temps. I guess I will have to wait until things cool down. Thanks again.
He has done many videos on the Darwin wind tower, particularly with 3D printed designs.
@@mookiemorjax And at least one more on the way!
cheers mate - i have already done a few though
@@ThinkingandTinkering I will have to go and take look for them. I have not seen some of you videos. A big thank you for all the work you do!
Put one high up on a mountain, use an MHD and run a ground wire to the negative plate for a wind generator without moving parts.
How well do you think the Darwin design would work if we combined it with the Archimedes design?
Hi,
So what if we stack multiple devices on top of each other? Will we get benefit of caught wind from wind capture from the bottom to the top? Will second wind capture create vacuum for the bottom one?
no idea
Me: super inspired, wanting to build wind turbines. The local weather: wind speed 0m/s for days at a time.
it happens - that's the issue with renewables
Walks with the pomposity and swager the suit dictates while wearing a back pack😅👌
Right smart mate - never heard of that thing…
they are Norwegan
It would be nice to see the actual power generation data from these turbines... but still nothing is forthcoming from the manufacturers.
Dear Robert,
Great a day out,Thank you
Racking my brain how to make one out of plastic barrels
I am going to film a short sequence and upload
In short order (could be fortnight,) Harvest time etc
Showing the motors, plastic barrels, plastic pipe, the telegraph pole, the location,my dad perhaps
and get real about this project.
Enjoying my brain away from the past
Standby
Don’t hold your breath
Henry
i have been pondering that for a while mate would love to see what you do
Robert, again, you have presented an excellent historical overview of the Darwin Wind Turbine. I would like you to now research and also talk about the pros and cons of "Industrial Rotating Roofing Turbine Ventilators" (Google Search) for outdoor sheds. Mine have been spinning every day for over 15 years with maximum or minimum wind speed to keep the air inside the sheds from becoming stagnant. These compact turbines seem to be perfect for their durability and ease of modification to make a generator. Take a look at them! Their ball shape allows wind, from any direction, to spin them easily.
that is a great idea
i have already done that mate
what is the wattage range on the Ventum product ?
Could this be used as a venturi effect chimney cowl?
Ive heard criticism that turbines in urban environments are so inefficient due to inconsistent wind speeds, that its almost not worth the effort. To get around it, you need to mount the turbine at least twice as high as the nearest tall structure. So, twice the height of the roof, if it is mounted on one. This is to get consistent, high speed wind. And given that power output is more or less cubed in relation to wind speed, it does make sense. What are your thoughts? Is there a way to overcome this challenge to make urban turbines worthwhile?
I notice the turbine wasn't going round in your video.
Me too.Wonder how well it actually works.
Yes. Sorry, but this sounds like an advert for Ventum. I've thoroughly scanned their websites. No real field test data to be found. None. Thats a big red flag right there. I'm willing to bet that installation will eventually be removed. Or vandalised... 😉
At 2:11 you can see its tied up with a rope i have no idea why but it looks like a rope
@@jaapjetheeDidn't notice @ 1:55 That's kinda weird to have that during a testing phase clearly impeding the rotor.... 🤔
@@saiello2061 i bet its broken and they dont have a brake in it so they tied it up
That looks like a great design, plus it is bird friendly. Are you planning to build a model to test this generator concept, Robert?
He's built many flavors of the Darwin wind tower/pipe/turbine!
@@mookiemorjax
Yes, you are correct,.
This design looks like it may be more efficient than previous models.
Would it not be safer if it was covered with a net?
I may well mate
Is any data available from this Darwin turbine?
I believe the one featured in this vid was placed specifically to gather such data. I don't know if it will be available publically. However, Rob has made videos featuring various iterations of a small model and comparison with standard designs and I believe there will be more.
yes but not to the public lol - this was a paid for test so the client s keeping the data I guess
It would be interesting turning this into a hubless generator. I would think you'd get better airflow as you wouldn't need to support the generator from the center.
No, you need to get as much as possible flow/pressure at the outside of the turbine. You need torque more than speed
i saw in this video one flaw. it is windy but no turning of that turbine on the pier.
does he have a video on how big we could possible make these?
Did I miss something or were the blades stationary?
they were stationary - my guess is the test was over and they locked it down
@@ThinkingandTinkering Sorry. That was unfortunate. It would have been much better for your video if it had been working.
@@ThinkingandTinkering This morning, the damage caused by Vandals was inspected to ensure there were no wider issues. Fortunately, the inspection has been completed, and the problems have been resolved. 😊
@@ravir8354 thank you for taking the time to post mate - it s awesome to know - shame i missed it turning it would have been icing on the cake so to speak - but it is super impressive non the less - cheers
Ventum had other same style wind catchers set up over a year ago and still no published results. Wind turbines are designed for using the kinetic energy from the wind. In my mind, any time the wind is diverted in another direction some kinetic energy will be taken out of the wind. I'm still a skeptic when it comes to wind collectors for adding energy.
There is a lot of evidence that wind blockers for the upwind side of a savonius VAWT do help. The question is: for the small gain are they worth the trouble?
according to some research papers i read they are worth the trouble
Bigger isn’t always better as Siemens Energy have found out . They have a catastrophic failure of their bearings and blades . It’s wiped a third off their market value . Maybe Rob could fill the energy requirements
there is always a limit mate
Whats the rope doing on the windturbine? It is keeping it from operating, why?
An ARCHIMEDES and DARWIN becomes ONE. Thats what I want to see tested.Up north where I live, snow and ice are problematic for the Archimedes. The Darwin would house and protect with an added slant roof mounted on the top. Plus the Darwin would amplify wind movement on those slow 1m days. YES PUT THOSE TWO TOGEATHER.
So how close to this device can you scale it in a slightly smaller version without a "patent infringement". I have a large breezy field just waiting for something like this one. BTW do we have any information on the performance?
You can completely ignore patents if it isn't a commercial venture.
if you are using it for personal use or research the patent doesn't matter
Hello Rob
Iv just watched on TH-cam Ancient Tech air conditioning. What a great thing if this wind catcher and turbine could be married together. I suppose in hotter climates
Regards Keith
ancient systems are always an inspiration to my mind mate
Skegness... Sounds a lovely place. LoL 😢
lol
Excellent sir, your videos are amazing. Thankyou so much.
cheers mate
Tempted to try a 3D printed capture devise, but that would mean digging the old cad system out , and trying to remember how to use it ....I took retirement seriously..lol . Computer with cad is buried under other projects .
dig it out mate lol
There's another advantage with a horizontally mounted turbine, which is the lack of gravitational shear force on the entire assembly. When you pivot a fan into an upright position, the entire thing is balancing on its axis, not being pulled downward, like a vertical mount is. With the right engineering, that turbine could literally be floating free of any contact points at all. No wind = the turbine rests on its base. Wind = the turbine lifts and begins to rotate. Think ping-pong ball on a shop vac with the flow reversed... Bernoulli's Principle.
cheers mate
What if put second stage on top but reversing stack with bottom largest, then using helical in center?
you could do that for sure
How big i need to get 1kw? would be great on top of a campervan
Why are non of these going into production - i've ben waiting years?
Energy companies would go bankrupt. no blood of consumers to suck.
would there be any benefit to adding an additional Darwin which is rotated by 90 degree's and attaching a VAWT tip to the HAWT?
i don't know really
@@ThinkingandTinkering Thinking about it, it would probably create a vortex, because the VAWT airflow would encounter the HAWT airflow at the edge and so wouldn't reach the VAWT. However a pelton wind-turbine attached as a rim to the tips of the HAWT would probably work.
Also provides a safety gap above the HAWT.
So the take-away is, for a localized (urban) distributed power generation system using Darwin wind turbines, bigger is not better.
you know... you would make a good next " Dr Who" 🌌🕴
wow - cheers
Hey Robert - why can't these be bought commertially - ive been lookimng for years - and they don't seem to be any closer today as they werer back then?
Did that girl behind you follow you all the way as you went back to Herne Bay? Chance?
se was Canadian - i asked her lol
so you walked all the way up there to see it, and it was tired down and not spinning. Any reason why ?
i didn't walk - i got the train
Lovely day out! 3️⃣
it was fun
Dose anyone know where I can buy an affordable one of these?