Cliburn's the best. But the problem mostly is in sonata, not in interpretation. Rachmaninoff created absolutely genial music idea but couldnt bring it to genial music text. Thats why exists 2 authors editions & different versions (horowitz, kocsis, etc)
Only those who have tried to learn this piece know how stupidly, ridiculously hard it is to play it like Kocsis did here. This is one of the highest things you could achieve as a pianist.
Sometimes, I think about which pieces I might try to learn in the next few years. For a while, this was on the list. Then I finally realised that there was no chance that I could do anything with it that Kocsis hadn't already done better.
@@flyingpenandpaper6119 even then, we should still play the pieces we love because with great effort we may be able to play these monsters at a professional level, even if it's not the best interpretation 💪
Its one of my biggest dreams to one day play this piece like kocsis did. Do you guys have any pieces that i should have played before playing this one?
1:05 sounds f*cking awesome! The way Kocsis plays this climax, the steady bb octave in the right hand and the changing chords and harmonies in the left just mesmerises me. I have to repeat this section multiple times every time I listen to this masterpiece.
Ashamed I knew little about this distinguished conductor and pianist, Zoltan Kocsis. What a marvelous person, just read his biography and obituary; he died in 2016 of cancer.
This is so indescribably good! I've been listening to this performance since I was 10 years old. I've heard a great many things in the intervening years but this probably remains my favourite piano recording of all time. Thanks Zoltán.
I haven't listened to this piece in a very long time. In the 1970s I bought the LP of Horowitz playing his version. As I listen to this excellent performance, so many memories of my "favorite" bits come back to me, after decades of not having heard them. A wonderful composition, and two wonderful pianists. High, high level music-making.
WOW !!! A Steinway and pianist in perfect cohesion. Kocsis shines yet again by relying on all feel and balance, no showy hokum. Rachmaninov would be duly proud.
Zoltan Kiddos, incredible pianist! Rachmaninoff's cello/piano sonata is beautiful as well as his piano sonata 1. Rach was a conductor at the Bolshoi Theater for 2 years and he had fantastic Russian musical training at conservatory.
Oh my god, thank you so much for posting this. Kocsis is the reigning champ, IMO, when it comes to the Rachmaninov 2nd sonata, followed closely by Horowitz.
This is one of the very few performances that does justice to the peace, and there is no other video on TH-cam anywhere near this class. Thank you for uploading it and giving this piece a great champion on TH-cam.
Mind boggling, jaw dropping, magnificent, definitive performance of this sublime work. Why do jealous gods snatch away our best and brightest before their time?
os4mike, Kocsis explains very clearly in the interview with Rácz why he prefers this version and makes I think a very compelling case. Kocsis is not one of those concert hall hyenas who play for the sake of difficulty or being different. He is a highly analytical musician and prefers this version for sound musical reasons.
@@CalamityInAction I'm just learning about this watching this video. His recording of Rachmaninoff's 4th piano concerto is still one of the best to ever be recorded imo.
I frequently come back to this performance, either on CD or via the vid, as it really reminds me what a phenomenal talent was lost in ZK. The coda in the last movement, with his interpretation, captures some of the best romantism of Rachmaninov. If you are a pianist, then you know that playing R's snt no 2 is actually a joy for the hands as he was a pianist composer who composed beautiful music in a manner that just sits naturally for the hands. That being said, the 3rd mvmt coda is a bit tricky!
Zoltán úgy zongorázott, ahogyan vezényelt. Az egészet nézte, és ahhoz rendelte a sebességet, dinamikát. Nem veszett el a kis részletekben, ahol lehet megmutatni, hogy mekkora zongorista vagyok. Ritka, elképesztő tehetséggel fogott hozzá minden műhöz. Ha ezt meghalljátok, rájöttök, hogy egy ritka nagy művészt hallgattok.
WONDERFUL I consider Koczis a TRUE GENIUS...Bach, Liszt Debussy Bartok, conducting operas, chamber music everything this man touches becomes gold. Is it possible to purchase this video in dvd format?
I pay my respects to both versions. If Rachmaninov didn't make 2nd version, would any of us say anything about the lacks in structure, form etc. of the original version? I don't believe so..
This is absolutely wonderful!!! Seeing Kocsis play this has changed my mind about learning the revised version :) And I agree with @madlovba03,I would love to see the interview if you have it!
Rachmaninov moved to the United States, and was a traditional man who was being heavily pushed by critics who wanted to go for more modernist ideas and aesthetic values (ex. people desired to see clear functionality in art, and to not become lost in apparent redundancies). So, he cut away any part of the sonata that could be viewed as "fat", and left only the notes which held their ground as being essential. Nothing ever to do with how playable the original version was.
He plays a hybrid version of the 1913 original and the 1931 revision. Horowitz adamantly claimed that his arrangement was done with the composer’s explicit permission, but evidence for this is circumstantial at best and complete baloney at worst. Anyhow, Horowitz had a penchant for grossly overdramatizing some aspects of his career (think of the “Rachmaninov was my best friend” quote), so I wouldn’t be surprised if the latter was the case. The whole sheet music is available on scorser.com if you want to check it out. Some Japanese fellow took the time a while ago to compile an edition based on Horowitz’s rendering. I myself - if it counts for anything - still prefer the original. The revision is filled with truncated, out of place sections that come from nowhere and arrive at nothing, awkward transitions and ridiculous non-sequiturs as a result of Rach reinventing some *measures* of a given passage but not all of them. The kitschy, Hollywood film score-y reharmonizations are just the icing on the cake. Not to mention, why discard ca. 5 minutes of perfectly beautiful musical material? It makes no sense to me. Why Seryozha felt the need to touch this piece again remains as much of a mystery as how the pyramids were built.
@@Kris9kris I am a little ignorant when it comes to the history for this musical piece and I am also not an expert at evaluating music. Is the version Horowitz plays the 1940 version? Why specifically do you think Horowitz is lying when he says he was given permission to play the work this way and he says he and Rachmaninoff were good friends? Isn't it true that he and Rachmaninoff were good friends?
@@chris93703 The only source I could find for Rachmaninov supposedly giving permission to Horowitz to rework and rearrange the piece is the latter’s testimony. That’s it. The Wikipedia article says that Horowitz rearranged this piece in 1940 then performed it three years later at a concert, just two weeks before Rachmaninov’s death, but I found no textual evidence of this concert even taking place or the transcription existing at that particular time - although I admit, the internet is still not exactly the best place to unearth these facts. If any counterevidence may be presented to me in the future, I’ll be happy to stand corrected. I’m only saying it’s a little suspect when the only recording available of Horowitz’s reworking was introduced two and a half decades after the composer’s passing. With that said, it’s certainly possible (and my father theorized this in an interview with Zoltán Rácz) that at one time, in a conceivably great state of inebriation Rach did succumb to Horowitz’s request *verbally* to “do what he wants” with the piece as he viewed the sonata a lost cause. He wasn’t happy with the first version and I can’t for the life of me imagine that he made his 1931 revision in good faith. It’s strikingly substandard patchwork for a genius of his calibre. The only good thing about it is the music in the 1913 version he didn’t delete from it. If you want to know more about the history of this piece, here is a 237-page long treatise about the 2nd Sonata which compares the three versions in great detail and length. vital.seals.ac.za:8080/vital/access/manager/PdfViewer/vital:8527/SOURCEPDF?viewPdfInternal=1 I’ll say this for Rachmaninov: he did get it right with his 1941 revision of the 4th concerto. In a way, it achieved what the 2nd sonata revision couldn’t, so he showed repentance.
@@Kris9kris i am very interested in studying your 237pdf page in details However link seems broken (at least, i cannot load it...) Do you have it somewhere still ?
Az utóbbi pár napban folyamatosan ezt hallgatom; annyira jó, hogy Kocsis az eredeti, vágatlan verziót játssza! Még egyszer köszönet a feltöltésért! Esetleg fel tudod tölteni az interjút is?
@@sziklaszilard8413 Lehet, hogy azóta te is megfejtetted. A video egyik kommentelőjének írt válaszában maga lebbenti fel a fátylat róla, amikor azt mondja @Chris-nek, h "apám a Rácz Zoltánnal folytatott beszélgetésben....." Ebben a beszélgetésben/interjuban Rácz Z. Kocsis Z-nal beszélget, és ez is itt van a yt-on. Krisztián nyilván túl szerény ahhoz, h ezzel" reklámozza magát," de mivel é ppen itt utalást tesz az édesapjára, nyilván nekünk sem tiltja meg, hogy ezt észrevegyük és ha vki rákérdez, akkor felvilágosítsuk. Igen, sejthető volt egy pár dologból - a névazonosság, az egészen rendkivüli zenei/zenetörténeti tájékozottság és az emberekhez való hozzáállás, amilyen fáradhatatlanul, lelkiismeretesen és alapossággal válaszol minden egyes hozzáintézett kérdésre.Ő is kiváló zongorista - ezt egy zong.tanárnő ismerősömtől tudom - és egy lelkiismeretes, nagyszerü ember.
4:20 if im right, isn't this small little section removed from the revised version? If so, then thats a shame because its my favorite part. Horowitz's version is the best imo. It captures the best of both renditions
There are approximately 5 minutes of material (which translates to around 10 pages of sheet music) removed from the second version. If you like Horowitz’s version, more power to you. I just find it mind-boggling that Rachmaninov and Horowitz felt the need to tinker with what is in my opinion a masterpiece in its original form. It’s like if Mozart shortened and revised Don Giovanni later in his life to make it more “modern”. 😞
@@Kris9kris personally I agree with the argument that the original version perhaps doesn't feel as "natural" to me, though I might be bias as I listened to the revised version and Horowitz's version first. Its still a gorgeous and intense piece of music regardless and probably my favorite sonata ever tho.
Kocsis, alone with Richter, is able to make Rachmaninov sound like a great composer. That's no mean feat, and shows what a very great musician and pianist Kocsis was. The last great pianist of the C20th.
Rachmaninov himself could make his own music sound good, and I certainly consider him one of the all-time great geniuses in Western music, but I agree with you. So many modern pianists grossly misunderstand the essence of what Rachmaninov was about and play his music like a Warsaw Concerto calibre soapy film score: ponderously and unbearably stilted, or like empty showpieces blurred with the sostenuto pedal to satisfy their ego.
@@Kris9kris Music did not flow from Rachmaninov, composing was a great struggle for him, and it shows I think mainly pianists program Rachmaninov because audiences fall for its languor, and the more overblown and "sentimental" it sounds the better they believe the pianist is. His work is much easier on the pianist than it appears, He composed mainly for himself after all, not for others. Kocsis's healthy and brisk Rach 3 is precisely how it should be played, but audiences today are used to the hand wringing melodrama of pianists not fit to wipe Kocsis's keyboard. Another pianist who famously made a terrible work of Rachmaninov sounds like something absolutely astonishing was Benedetti Michelangeli in the 4th concerto........a work which should never have seen the light of day in my humble opinion
@@jeremyd1021 Forgive me if I sound pedantic, but I’m sensing a logical contradiction in your comments. If a piece can be made to sound like something “absolutely astonishing” then maybe it isn’t the piece’s fault that people play it badly, plus shouldn’t we judge a piece based on the best performance available? After all, music is just ink on paper before anybody actually performs it. If I based my judgment concerning Mozart’s music off of Uchida’s recordings, or my assessment of Bach based on Gould’s recordings, then I surely would think Mozart and Bach are bad composers. I love Debussy, but Michelangeli’s Debussy Prelude recordings should be set on fire and ejected into space. I concede that it’s much harder to bring out the full potential of any piece rather than the opposite. I also disagree about the 4th: Rachmaninov was a master storyteller when it came to music, and no composition of his exemplifies this better than the 4th concerto, I’ve actually grown to like it very much (the second version is much better unlike the Second sonata's 1931 version). Regarding your first sentence, Rachmaninov wrote and fully orchestrated his first opera Aleko within a timespan of a week. This kind of prolificity isn’t usual for a person who “struggled with composing”.
@@Kris9kris Hard to imagine why Michelangeli recorded the 4th concerto. There is no record of him ever having played anything at all of Rachmaninov in concert, and certainly not this concerto, and so he could not have cared for it. So he learnt it purely for the recording. Hard to understand given ABM's taciturn nature why he would bother. He was already very famous by the late 1950's and so would not have been under any pressure to play anything he did not want.There must be some story behind it. A bet maybe? I am sorry but It is a terrible concerto which is why it is very rarely played unless all 4 concertos are being programmed. Aleko bombed by the way. You can't seriously think Rachmaninov was one of the greatest geniuses because then you are saying he is on a par with Schumann, Schubert, Mozart, Beethoven and Bach, or the next rank, Chopin, Liszt, Wagner and so on. I am sure Rachmaninov himself would have regarded such a suggestion as not worthy.
@@jeremyd1021 Do you know what else bombed? Carmen, and we know how that turned out. Also, this obsequious, snobbish ranking of great composers into neat little tiers as the be-all and end-all argument really needs to stop in the classical music community. It kills what is good and important about music in my opinion. These “ranks” of yours are totally arbitrary if you don’t mind me saying. Even if we defer back to public opinion and the “experts”, those “experts” can be wrong at any given point in time. Mozart wasn’t considered a top echelon composer in his day (contemporaries described his music - believe it or not - as noisy and incomprehensible), and don’t even get me started on Beethoven who was looked upon as a madman. Rachmaninov’s oeuvre was greatly reevaluated/rehabilitated since the days of the Fuller Maitlands and other such pompous bellends. My opinion is great music - whoever and whenever wrote it - is eventually discovered and finds its way into the concert halls by forces that aren’t necessarily in anyone’s control while others perish. I have a particular distaste towards Mahler’s music and everything those overblown, bloated, self-congratulatory “symphonies” stand for but I won’t proclaim that he’s a C-tier composer just because my intuition tells me to or I’ve heard it from some self-proclaimed “connoisseur”.
Rachmaninov revised this sonata for the reason to be played. At the same time he deprived the piece from its original structure giving way to cheap solutions which can be performed by the weaker executants. The "V2" is weaker as the mule is weaker than a blood-horse.
I couldn't disagree more, V1 requires very little if any more virtuosity than V2, while V2's structure is far superior to V1. V1 is full of many unresolved sections and lacks the heart of V2. The excluded/ammended V1 sections give V2 much more character and melodic brilliance.
he was never a strong technician,not by todays standards anyway, but he always played with heart and enthusiam which made up for his technical shortcomings.
![Zoltán Kocsis on Schönberg and his own completion of the opera Moses and Aron [🇭🇺Hungarian]](/img/n.gif)
What a genius, crystal clear polyphony and form guidance, and that all in an unheard orchestral sound quality... we miss him !
BY FAR the best interpretation of this piece! Amazing!
horowitz
@@eliplayer2122I would probably agree if he played the 1913 version. As someone has put it mildly: I am a purist for this Sonata.
the best evidence for playing the original 1913 version, this is just perfect.
RIP Kocsis. Best interpretation of this piece by far.
I agree!
I thought so too and then I watched Matsuev's and almost fell from my chair :D
Cliburn's the best. But the problem mostly is in sonata, not in interpretation. Rachmaninoff created absolutely genial music idea but couldnt bring it to genial music text. Thats why exists 2 authors editions & different versions (horowitz, kocsis, etc)
Agreed. What he does with Beethoven's op. 111 is similarly stunning. His trills are unbelievable.
I like Ashkenazy’s the most. Van Cliburn’s is also very good, especially the slow movement.
Only those who have tried to learn this piece know how stupidly, ridiculously hard it is to play it like Kocsis did here. This is one of the highest things you could achieve as a pianist.
Sometimes, I think about which pieces I might try to learn in the next few years. For a while, this was on the list. Then I finally realised that there was no chance that I could do anything with it that Kocsis hadn't already done better.
@@flyingpenandpaper6119 even then, we should still play the pieces we love because with great effort we may be able to play these monsters at a professional level, even if it's not the best interpretation 💪
That’s me! 😂
I’m Learning the first movement now and even the first 3 pages took me a month to get over with
Its one of my biggest dreams to one day play this piece like kocsis did. Do you guys have any pieces that i should have played before playing this one?
A phenomenal pianist who is greatly missed!
1:05 sounds f*cking awesome! The way Kocsis plays this climax, the steady bb octave in the right hand and the changing chords and harmonies in the left just mesmerises me. I have to repeat this section multiple times every time I listen to this masterpiece.
No one played this piece as perfect as him. He was born for it.
The fearsome Rachmaninov sonata played to perfection....live!
Ashamed I knew little about this distinguished conductor and pianist, Zoltan Kocsis. What a marvelous person, just read his biography and obituary; he died in 2016 of cancer.
This was astonishing! Kocsis was a bona fide genius! Bravo to him and to his memory! I'm so sorry we lost him!
This is an incredible performance by Kocsis! Very impressive!
best interpretation i’ve ever heard of this piece
0:10 - I. Allegro agitato;
9:25 - II. Non allegro - Lento;
16:07 - III. Allegro molto.
This is so indescribably good! I've been listening to this performance since I was 10 years old. I've heard a great many things in the intervening years but this probably remains my favourite piano recording of all time. Thanks Zoltán.
Can't listen without tears 😥. The best.
It remains to this day as the ultimate reference for this complicated music. Kocsis was like Midas: Everything that touched became gold.
Agreed.
Agreed
This interpretation is simply amazing.
I haven't listened to this piece in a very long time. In the 1970s I bought the LP of Horowitz playing his version. As I listen to this excellent performance, so many memories of my "favorite" bits come back to me, after decades of not having heard them. A wonderful composition, and two wonderful pianists. High, high level music-making.
Straordinaria tensione e tecnica 🤩
makes everything seem simple❤
WOW !!! A Steinway and pianist in perfect cohesion. Kocsis shines yet again by relying on all feel and balance, no showy hokum. Rachmaninov would be duly proud.
懐かしいですね
当時コチシュ派とラーンキ派にわかれ、
金子さんはコチシュ先生から直接教わったのですね
どちらかというとラーンキに雰囲気は似ている気がします。
先生のお若い頃の貴重な映像ありがとうございます
圧巻です
Best recording!!!! I’m glad we got it before he passed 😢
Before hearing the original I had the impression Sergei had no idea how to write a piano sonata. Thank you Kreis9kris for this musical revelation.
You need to listen to his first sonata
Zoltan Kiddos, incredible pianist! Rachmaninoff's cello/piano sonata is beautiful as well as his piano sonata 1. Rach was a conductor at the Bolshoi Theater for 2 years and he had fantastic Russian musical training at conservatory.
Incredible. Just incredible.. I can’t believe it
Oh my god, thank you so much for posting this. Kocsis is the reigning champ, IMO, when it comes to the Rachmaninov 2nd sonata, followed closely by Horowitz.
Thanks for sharing! I cannot tell how good is this. It’s just precious❤
This is one of the very few performances that does justice to the peace, and there is no other video on TH-cam anywhere near this class. Thank you for uploading it and giving this piece a great champion on TH-cam.
this is VERY VERY good recording.
my favourite.!!!
he tames this beast and brings it under control
Mind boggling, jaw dropping, magnificent, definitive performance of this sublime work. Why do jealous gods snatch away our best and brightest before their time?
The best version ever!
Рекомендую следующую версию: канал Марина Ларичева , март 1996 г. Япония Лучший 5:37 пианист Алексей Султанов
os4mike, Kocsis explains very clearly in the interview with Rácz why he prefers this version and makes I think a very compelling case. Kocsis is not one of those concert hall hyenas who play for the sake of difficulty or being different. He is a highly analytical musician and prefers this version for sound musical reasons.
Awww I didn’t know he passed away ,,, what a huge loss for the world ,, rest it peace ,,,
amorosso Me neither. I just learned know. It’s a shame. He was so amazing. I fell in love with his 2 Czardas renditions (Macabre and Obstine)
@@CalamityInAction I'm just learning about this watching this video. His recording of Rachmaninoff's 4th piano concerto is still one of the best to ever be recorded imo.
he died 6 years ago...
edit: accidentally wrote 60 🤣
@@ConcordMass you meant six years... he was born in 1952 and died in 2016. He was a marvel.
@@soozb15 oh yep sorry!
The best!! No one will ever reach Zoltan. There are other pianists, and there is Zoltan!
Very good Rachmaninov
I frequently come back to this performance, either on CD or via the vid, as it really reminds me what a phenomenal talent was lost in ZK. The coda in the last movement, with his interpretation, captures some of the best romantism of Rachmaninov. If you are a pianist, then you know that playing R's snt no 2 is actually a joy for the hands as he was a pianist composer who composed beautiful music in a manner that just sits naturally for the hands. That being said, the 3rd mvmt coda is a bit tricky!
PIANISTA ECCELLENTE! COMPLIMENTI VIVISSIMI 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
i LOVE THIS INTERPRETATION OF THIS PIECE lUGANSSKY NICOLAI IS ALSO EXTRAORDINAIRE LISTEN TO IT TOO.
Insane rhythmic drive, one that I would think unachievable by humans if this did not exist.
Zoltán úgy zongorázott, ahogyan vezényelt. Az egészet nézte, és ahhoz rendelte a sebességet, dinamikát. Nem veszett el a kis részletekben, ahol lehet megmutatni, hogy mekkora zongorista vagyok. Ritka, elképesztő tehetséggel fogott hozzá minden műhöz. Ha ezt meghalljátok, rájöttök, hogy egy ritka nagy művészt hallgattok.
halljuk :)
WONDERFUL I consider Koczis a TRUE GENIUS...Bach, Liszt Debussy Bartok, conducting operas, chamber music everything this man touches becomes gold. Is it possible to purchase this video in dvd format?
I pay my respects to both versions.
If Rachmaninov didn't make 2nd version, would any of us say anything about the lacks in structure, form etc. of the original version? I don't believe so..
Wonderful !!!!!!!!
Fantastico! 🎼🎶👏👏👏👏
This is absolutely wonderful!!! Seeing Kocsis play this has changed my mind about learning the revised version :) And I agree with @madlovba03,I would love to see the interview if you have it!
Fantasztikusak a feltöltések, remélem, még folytatod!
Lehetne, hogy a darabok végét nem vágod le ilyen hamar? Olyan, mintha egy falnak ütköznénk.
Ezért nem szeretem hallgatni a Klasszik rádiót. Ott a lecsengésbe beleüvölt az a borzasztó zenének nem nevezném valami.
15:00 - Touching
Quite marvelous.
Ritkasag; koszonom !
Rachmaninov moved to the United States, and was a traditional man who was being heavily pushed by critics who wanted to go for more modernist ideas and aesthetic values (ex. people desired to see clear functionality in art, and to not become lost in apparent redundancies). So, he cut away any part of the sonata that could be viewed as "fat", and left only the notes which held their ground as being essential. Nothing ever to do with how playable the original version was.
impressive and yes the revised version is a hack job ,compared to this one.
I love the way Kocsis lets the music speak for itself ,no showy bullshit.
13:46 - 14:20 My favorite part.
Supreme!
Phantastic!
Genius
He is just...best for Rachmaninoff
+++
KOCSIS. As far as I know there have been no DVD published.
My fav...! Followed by hamelin and sultanov's!
i think hamelin played it too fast and rushed
@@fredericchopin6445 well yeah he played it fast, and missed some voicings. But really dynamic, exciting and didn't really lose his control!
0:10 0:22 21:50 22:14
Super
Had not idea he died! :-( RIP
Does anybody know where one can find the conversation that is referenced in the description?
th-cam.com/video/3WCfenUVPLI/w-d-xo.html&t Here it is. Won't be much help though if you don't speak Hungarian.
Which version does Horowitz play in 1968? Does he play the 1913 version of this sonata? What is the difference between the two versions?
He plays a hybrid version of the 1913 original and the 1931 revision. Horowitz adamantly claimed that his arrangement was done with the composer’s explicit permission, but evidence for this is circumstantial at best and complete baloney at worst. Anyhow, Horowitz had a penchant for grossly overdramatizing some aspects of his career (think of the “Rachmaninov was my best friend” quote), so I wouldn’t be surprised if the latter was the case. The whole sheet music is available on scorser.com if you want to check it out. Some Japanese fellow took the time a while ago to compile an edition based on Horowitz’s rendering. I myself - if it counts for anything - still prefer the original. The revision is filled with truncated, out of place sections that come from nowhere and arrive at nothing, awkward transitions and ridiculous non-sequiturs as a result of Rach reinventing some *measures* of a given passage but not all of them. The kitschy, Hollywood film score-y reharmonizations are just the icing on the cake. Not to mention, why discard ca. 5 minutes of perfectly beautiful musical material? It makes no sense to me. Why Seryozha felt the need to touch this piece again remains as much of a mystery as how the pyramids were built.
@@Kris9kris I am a little ignorant when it comes to the history for this musical piece and I am also not an expert at evaluating music. Is the version Horowitz plays the 1940 version? Why specifically do you think Horowitz is lying when he says he was given permission to play the work this way and he says he and Rachmaninoff were good friends? Isn't it true that he and Rachmaninoff were good friends?
@@chris93703 The only source I could find for Rachmaninov supposedly giving permission to Horowitz to rework and rearrange the piece is the latter’s testimony. That’s it.
The Wikipedia article says that Horowitz rearranged this piece in 1940 then performed it three years later at a concert, just two weeks before Rachmaninov’s death, but I found no textual evidence of this concert even taking place or the transcription existing at that particular time - although I admit, the internet is still not exactly the best place to unearth these facts. If any counterevidence may be presented to me in the future, I’ll be happy to stand corrected. I’m only saying it’s a little suspect when the only recording available of Horowitz’s reworking was introduced two and a half decades after the composer’s passing.
With that said, it’s certainly possible (and my father theorized this in an interview with Zoltán Rácz) that at one time, in a conceivably great state of inebriation Rach did succumb to Horowitz’s request *verbally* to “do what he wants” with the piece as he viewed the sonata a lost cause. He wasn’t happy with the first version and I can’t for the life of me imagine that he made his 1931 revision in good faith. It’s strikingly substandard patchwork for a genius of his calibre. The only good thing about it is the music in the 1913 version he didn’t delete from it.
If you want to know more about the history of this piece, here is a 237-page long treatise about the 2nd Sonata which compares the three versions in great detail and length.
vital.seals.ac.za:8080/vital/access/manager/PdfViewer/vital:8527/SOURCEPDF?viewPdfInternal=1
I’ll say this for Rachmaninov: he did get it right with his 1941 revision of the 4th concerto. In a way, it achieved what the 2nd sonata revision couldn’t, so he showed repentance.
@@Kris9kris i am very interested in studying your 237pdf page in details
However link seems broken (at least, i cannot load it...)
Do you have it somewhere still ?
@@pierreolivaux It works for me still, but here you go: drive.google.com/file/d/1eRvz7_TDENGxDYMDDy-P8cmAEAiwHiUd/view?usp=sharing
Powerful pianist.
Az utóbbi pár napban folyamatosan ezt hallgatom; annyira jó, hogy Kocsis az eredeti, vágatlan verziót játssza! Még egyszer köszönet a feltöltésért! Esetleg fel tudod tölteni az interjút is?
Ki lehet ez a Kris9kris?
Szikla Szilárd Kocsis Krisztián, a fia.
@@sziklaszilard8413 Lehet, hogy azóta te is megfejtetted. A video egyik kommentelőjének írt válaszában maga lebbenti fel a fátylat róla, amikor azt mondja @Chris-nek, h "apám a Rácz Zoltánnal folytatott beszélgetésben....." Ebben a beszélgetésben/interjuban Rácz Z. Kocsis Z-nal beszélget, és ez is itt van a yt-on. Krisztián nyilván túl szerény ahhoz, h ezzel" reklámozza magát," de mivel é ppen itt utalást tesz az édesapjára, nyilván nekünk sem tiltja meg, hogy ezt észrevegyük és ha vki rákérdez, akkor felvilágosítsuk. Igen, sejthető volt egy pár dologból - a névazonosság, az egészen rendkivüli zenei/zenetörténeti tájékozottság és az emberekhez való hozzáállás, amilyen fáradhatatlanul, lelkiismeretesen és alapossággal válaszol minden egyes hozzáintézett kérdésre.Ő is kiváló zongorista - ezt egy zong.tanárnő ismerősömtől tudom - és egy lelkiismeretes, nagyszerü ember.
4:20 if im right, isn't this small little section removed from the revised version? If so, then thats a shame because its my favorite part. Horowitz's version is the best imo. It captures the best of both renditions
There are approximately 5 minutes of material (which translates to around 10 pages of sheet music) removed from the second version. If you like Horowitz’s version, more power to you. I just find it mind-boggling that Rachmaninov and Horowitz felt the need to tinker with what is in my opinion a masterpiece in its original form. It’s like if Mozart shortened and revised Don Giovanni later in his life to make it more “modern”. 😞
@@Kris9kris personally I agree with the argument that the original version perhaps doesn't feel as "natural" to me, though I might be bias as I listened to the revised version and Horowitz's version first. Its still a gorgeous and intense piece of music regardless and probably my favorite sonata ever tho.
@@Kris9krisagreed. I never wanted to learn the "remix". I went for the original. It's so much more complete overall.
There’s a reason he revised it. That’s the benefit of growing older: we fix our mistakes.
9:22 Mov 2
As compared to the original the 2nd version is like a skeleton (or a sketch).
Kocsis, alone with Richter, is able to make Rachmaninov sound like a great composer. That's no mean feat, and shows what a very great musician and pianist Kocsis was. The last great pianist of the C20th.
Rachmaninov himself could make his own music sound good, and I certainly consider him one of the all-time great geniuses in Western music, but I agree with you. So many modern pianists grossly misunderstand the essence of what Rachmaninov was about and play his music like a Warsaw Concerto calibre soapy film score: ponderously and unbearably stilted, or like empty showpieces blurred with the sostenuto pedal to satisfy their ego.
@@Kris9kris
Music did not flow from Rachmaninov, composing was a great struggle for him, and it shows
I think mainly pianists program Rachmaninov because audiences fall for its languor, and the more overblown and "sentimental" it sounds the better they believe the pianist is.
His work is much easier on the pianist than it appears, He composed mainly for himself after all, not for others.
Kocsis's healthy and brisk Rach 3 is precisely how it should be played, but audiences today are used to the hand wringing melodrama of pianists not fit to wipe Kocsis's keyboard.
Another pianist who famously made a terrible work of Rachmaninov sounds like something absolutely astonishing was Benedetti Michelangeli in the 4th concerto........a work which should never have seen the light of day in my humble opinion
@@jeremyd1021 Forgive me if I sound pedantic, but I’m sensing a logical contradiction in your comments. If a piece can be made to sound like something “absolutely astonishing” then maybe it isn’t the piece’s fault that people play it badly, plus shouldn’t we judge a piece based on the best performance available? After all, music is just ink on paper before anybody actually performs it. If I based my judgment concerning Mozart’s music off of Uchida’s recordings, or my assessment of Bach based on Gould’s recordings, then I surely would think Mozart and Bach are bad composers. I love Debussy, but Michelangeli’s Debussy Prelude recordings should be set on fire and ejected into space. I concede that it’s much harder to bring out the full potential of any piece rather than the opposite. I also disagree about the 4th: Rachmaninov was a master storyteller when it came to music, and no composition of his exemplifies this better than the 4th concerto, I’ve actually grown to like it very much (the second version is much better unlike the Second sonata's 1931 version). Regarding your first sentence, Rachmaninov wrote and fully orchestrated his first opera Aleko within a timespan of a week. This kind of prolificity isn’t usual for a person who “struggled with composing”.
@@Kris9kris Hard to imagine why Michelangeli recorded the 4th concerto. There is no record of him ever having played anything at all of Rachmaninov in concert, and certainly not this concerto, and so he could not have cared for it. So he learnt it purely for the recording. Hard to understand given ABM's taciturn nature why he would bother. He was already very famous by the late 1950's and so would not have been under any pressure to play anything he did not want.There must be some story behind it. A bet maybe? I am sorry but It is a terrible concerto which is why it is very rarely played unless all 4 concertos are being programmed. Aleko bombed by the way.
You can't seriously think Rachmaninov was one of the greatest geniuses because then you are saying he is on a par with Schumann, Schubert, Mozart, Beethoven and Bach, or the next rank, Chopin, Liszt, Wagner and so on. I am sure Rachmaninov himself would have regarded such a suggestion as not worthy.
@@jeremyd1021 Do you know what else bombed? Carmen, and we know how that turned out. Also, this obsequious, snobbish ranking of great composers into neat little tiers as the be-all and end-all argument really needs to stop in the classical music community. It kills what is good and important about music in my opinion. These “ranks” of yours are totally arbitrary if you don’t mind me saying. Even if we defer back to public opinion and the “experts”, those “experts” can be wrong at any given point in time. Mozart wasn’t considered a top echelon composer in his day (contemporaries described his music - believe it or not - as noisy and incomprehensible), and don’t even get me started on Beethoven who was looked upon as a madman. Rachmaninov’s oeuvre was greatly reevaluated/rehabilitated since the days of the Fuller Maitlands and other such pompous bellends. My opinion is great music - whoever and whenever wrote it - is eventually discovered and finds its way into the concert halls by forces that aren’t necessarily in anyone’s control while others perish. I have a particular distaste towards Mahler’s music and everything those overblown, bloated, self-congratulatory “symphonies” stand for but I won’t proclaim that he’s a C-tier composer just because my intuition tells me to or I’ve heard it from some self-proclaimed “connoisseur”.
I also love Hamelin's interpretation. (My opinion)
Bad taste. Hamelin has non-professional approach to the interpretation of this sonata
Vadim when it’s all about preference, but yea hamelin was too fast
@@Alex-oy6ss non-professional? What a BS!
I'm just here to correct wrong information, not subjective statements.
22:01
I also love the Horowitz version (approved by the Rach)
Rachmaninov revised this sonata for the reason to be played. At the same time he deprived the piece from its original structure giving way to cheap solutions which can be performed by the weaker executants. The "V2" is weaker as the mule is weaker than a blood-horse.
I couldn't disagree more, V1 requires very little if any more virtuosity than V2, while V2's structure is far superior to V1. V1 is full of many unresolved sections and lacks the heart of V2. The excluded/ammended V1 sections give V2 much more character and melodic brilliance.
he was never a strong technician,not by todays standards anyway, but he always played with heart and enthusiam which made up for his technical shortcomings.
LMAO, I'd wager you're the first person in the universe to accuse Zoltán Kocsis of having "technical shortcomings."
как-то всё подряд, без каких-то смысловых разделов, фраз
Such a shame he played V1, instead of V2. Incredibly played but this Sonata was revised by Rach for a reason.
this version is played by him for a reason
I still feel this is the better version.
22:00
22:02