Fit is how you get your average up. Had all my thumbs redrilled a couple of months ago. It cost about as much as a new ball. But it was worth it. Changed slug type, drill type, and zero taper. Bowled 698 tonight with 24 strikes. 💯
Actually good to see these informational videos with CORRECT UP TO DATE info. Good PSO's are so hard to find. Hopefully, PSO's will watch this video. Funny, but not really funny, story. My first bowling ball I walked into a pro shop, the pso told me to put my fingers in his bowling ball. Mind you, he was 6'4" 250-300 lbs and I'm 5'8" 190 lbs. He looked at me hand in the ball and said ok, "I can get you taken care of." Not a mention of pap, span, pitches etc... You can imagine how good that fit was.🤦 At the time I lived in po dunk West Virginia, population 2200. There was only one psi within 2 hours of where I was. Eventually I drove that two hours because my wrist hurt so bad I thought I was going to have to quit bowling, before I really even started. My span was still too long but was usable. I moved to Raliegh, NC where PSO's aren't hard to find. I tried 3 different PSO's, all with glowing recommendations, half a dozen fits and easily $2000 on drilling over 2 years. Finally found an amazing PSO. The second I threw the ball it was magical how perfect it fits. Point being, different PSO's have different experiences and ways of doing things. Just because fit isn't perfect doesn't mean the pso is bad. Just may not be a good PSO for you. Unless of course it's the first variety of PSO I mentioned. He was terrible and lazy. So many people walk in and say, "I want this this and this changed." I have built trust with my PSO to walk in and say, "this is what I'm feeling, what do you think we should do?" Part of building that trust is him watching me throw the ball, each time I think something is off. Sometimes it's a physical game thing and not my fit at all. It takes a good PSO to be able to know the difference.
Grip checked last week. I started having a pain on base of my thumb for last 2 months. My span is way too long and needs reverse pitch in fingers due to inflexibility. This video is SPOT ON!
As a no thumb two hander I've been experimenting with my pro shop operator to put a small mark near where the base of my thumb would be in my one handed grip. I use this mark to line the ball up the same way on my palm each time. When I was in a coaching session with Mark Baker (when he was in town) we experimented with moving that mark left and right in my palm (but keeping the X covered by my palm) to see if it makes different ball reactions. I'm still learning what that does, but one way did seem to help create more sideroll naturally.
Great video. So, I have only been bowling since late 2019. But the 1st 20 months (including COVID) was spent finding the proper fit FOR ME. Took 3 pro shops to find someone willing to guide, but also listen. Thank you Mike Sarandrea! Only you know and can tell someone how a fit feels on the hand, so find a shop that is willing to work with you. Again, great job JR staff. One day I hope to visit your shop in BC.
Very good info. Most important for the regular bowlers is we do not have the option/money to drill a ball 2,3, or 4 times until it fits good. So, for me the question is: How do you know 'your ProShop' knows what they are doing. I came back to bowling after a 35 yr lay off and of course the ProShop had changed owners. I won't give details but without a doubt my fit/drilling is not correct. And prior to drilling the only thing that was done was a hole size and span length....he did not come over to the lanes to see how I threw a ball, nothing. So now I'm stuck with a $200 investment that is not as good as it could be, I have no confidence that he can make it any better and no idea of where I can go to get things corrected ( i live in a rural area with only one Proshop).
Great question. To measure a hand from scratch it should take about 10 mins. And then the extra stuff like pap tilt etc should take another 15 mins. So 30ish mins for you for your first time if you’re serious about it
Yeah same thing happened to me. First person to fill my gear, fit perfectly, never had an issue. Now I have you wear tape, drill the thumb differently, change my whole approach… it’s been a mess.
This is the exact video ive been looking for and needing for years! Excellent video. Watched luis napoles video on the top channels and came here to check it out. Ive never had a fit check since i started bowling 50 yrs ago. Im excited now to get checked out.
Got fitted in November, alongside my PAP. I figure I'll do it every year at the same time, during my Thanksgiving break, since they local PSO recommends doing it that frequently.
This is a very good explanation for those of us who only know what a good fit feels like and how light a properly fit ball feels upon release. I wish I had access to your expertise. I'm right handed who had a serious injury to my right hand when I was 1½ years old. My hand does not open flat, it is the natural shape of a ball sitting in it. My middle finger is bent at my last joint near my finger tip toward my index. Looking down at the top of my knuckles, it also rotates clockwise about ³/¹⁶. This knuckle gets sore and achy inside thus knuckle after 3 games of league. Also my thumb hole is mostly round, not oval. I always thought it should be oval, but I could not get a shop to spend the time to get it or to understand my abnormal hand issues. I've always rolled a finger tip drilled ball. I bowled until my early thirties. Looking back, I started out naturally as a cranker, perhaps to alleviate some of my hand pain issues. I had a side impact in a car accident, with my seat belt and shoulder strap properly worn. Unfortunately, the belt kept my hips locked in, but the shoulder strap allowed my shoulders to violently rotate to the right. I had to stop bowling at that time because my lower back and sciatica hurt all season. 25 years later, my grandson looked at me after I explained I can't bowl because of my accident and post bowl, back issues. He looked at me and asked why I couldn't just learn to bowl another way. 💡 came on. I did learn to become a stroker. That was 24 years ago. Unfortunately this is when my hand issue started to become a real problem. My span was too long at first, and each new shop would tell me the span was too long and reduce it. The last time finally got it, I think. After my 4th Shop fitted my span, I had the middle finger pain issue get worse. I really enjoy bowling, but because of my specific fit issues, I struggle, but vow not to stop until I get it fit for my issues, so I can continue to enjoy this great game. I would love it if you could look at pictures of my hand and make some suggestions, that a local shop could follow, to help me obtain the joy, with reduced pain, of my favorite game. Thank you, Tom
I haven't bowled in about 15 years, but I want to get back into the game while also changing how I throw (formerly 2 handed, want to switch to 1 handed). I'm heading into my local shop next weekend, and the question Jungo asked at 11:54 is exactly what has been going through my mind, since the last ball I had drilled for me would just fall off my thumb on the backswing. I'm planning on having them start with a spare ball and once happy with the layout, have it drilled into a reactive. That way, in case it's wrong, I'm not plugging/drilling a $150 ball just to make sure I'm comfortable.
Great content. This is the best ball fitting video out right now! Very informative and really helpful for those looking to dial in the right fit! My feeling is that if the fit is poor or not optimized it leads to pains and strains and lower scores. And in turn people start to experiment with no thumb bowling, due to frustration with not having a proper fit. We need educated and patient Drilling professionals in order to take the game to another level. To me two handed bowling is born of a bad fit and people want to get more rotation and tilt variations more quickly. It will not grow the game as it takes less talent to roll the ball without the thumb. Obviously there are exceptions to this, however I feel this is the trend. Along with having more marketing in the different balls leading to the misconception that its the "ball".
This video prompted me to get fit last week. Prior to that, my most recent fit check was pre-COVID. My span was too long. Getting one ball plugged and redrilled to check. My PSO didn't tell me how much it was off. But later at home when I checked, the 1st knuckle didn't even reach the finger hole! Will update when I try the new fit next week. I'll take Mark's advice and get fit at least every 18 months
Came out of 5 year bowling retirement 3 weeks ago. Had to start completely over. I need to work on making thumb hole tighter. Always kinking thumb to hang on.
I enjoyed this video a lot! A huge part of a bowling game is the fit of a bowling ball, and I think that you managed to explain a big part of it here. It is so personal, and different from player to player, that it makes it extremely hard to get a proper fit without the help of an expert pro shop operator, who has the knowledge, but especially the patience and goodwill, to take the time and find out what a bowler needs. One of your better videos, can't wait for another one on a similar topic! :))
I just had my hand refitted by a different PSO than the one I've been going to my entire life and they shortened my span a little, added a little more reverse pitch on the thumb and also went a size smaller on the thumb hole and WOW. the ball feels so much better in the hand and there is a lot less stress on my thumb, which I was having a couple of issues with.
4:13 - This can't be spoken about enough. I have a spatulate thumb, but I bowled for _decades_ with a round thumb hole. The PSO I used to go to would make the hole snug on the sides and simply remove the extra with a bevel tool. I thought that was all that could be done, so I dealt with it. I don't use tape. I've never used tape. I don't want to use tape. Don't tell me to use tape, because I'm not going to use tape. I went to a new pro shop four years ago where the PSO actually drilled me an oval thumb hole. OMG! Did you ever have a pair of shoes that fit you so well, you forgot you were wearing them? That's what a thumb hole _that actually fits your thumb_ is supposed to feel like. All the blisters and calluses he's talking about, I had a lot of these at various points in my 40 years of bowling when I had a round hole. The last four? Nothing. No calluses, no bruising, not even a dimple and, except for lockdown, I've bowled at least two leagues a week. Even better, I get that perfect fit with no tape. If your thumb isn't round, find a PSO who can drill oval thumb holes. You will not regret it.
The callous on the inside of my thumb has been there since I was 15 (35 years). I took twenty years off in the middle and it never went away. I beat the hell out of my thumb in my teenage years.
I haven’t had my bowling fit checked in about 2-3 years. It would be nice to be able to throw more revs but I’m physically unable to. It’s okay though I try to make the best with what I have
Really great video I watch a lot of bowling videos and in my opinion your Chanel is by far my favorite. You give great advice and I love your videos. Thank you so much for all the time effort and energy you put out to make these videos to help all of us
Another informative tutorial. Well edited. I do appreciate my local pro shop. My family and friends just started bowling this year and our local pro shop has been great. Thank you Will from King Pins. You guys are awesome!
When I bought my ball in 1993. 😁 (I am actually looking at getting a new ball, because I recently started bowling again and it just doesn’t feel right. It was a cheap ball, so if I buy a new one I won’t shed a lot of tears over it.)
Thank you for this very informative video. I'm just getting back into bowling after a 30-40 year absence. Looking forward to getting fitted for my first ever personal ball.
I am just getting back in to bowling because of my grandsons. My ball from the past feels like it is going to tear my knuckle off of my thumb on release. I had the local pro shop look at it and he opened it up a little but not enough.
Been looking at going back to league bowling after 10 years not playing regularly. Last ball I had drilled was a good 12-13 years ago and I want to get a new ball done to start out fresh with all of the ball technology changes to include lane oiling patterns. Every ball I had from starting bowling at 3-4 years old to the last one I have are all conventionally drilled. How hard is it to switch from conventional drilled to finger tip based? Looking for some opinions here to decide how to have a new ball drilled.
I actually got my grip checked a week or so ago. I tried sarge Easter grip due to some pain I was having in the first joint of my ring finger, which prompted my grip check three years ago. I used it for almost a week now and I like the feel of it.
I've only had my ball fit checked the day I got it drilled... ten plus years ago. Brunswick Slingshot black and silver pearl. Feels kinda odd playing with now that I've started bowling again. I've also lost 160 lbs, so that might be why it feels different.
Super informative video once again guys! Been a while since I’ve had a fit check, but being two handed makes it easier. For all the two handers out there, PLEASE apply some form of reverse pitch if you like to dig. Its a complete game changer!
Cool to see you guys together. Get Rambo Ray on be of your shows. Thanks 2 fits since I returned to bowling in 2019. RH 4 1/4 middle 4 3/8 ring; now 4 1/2 middle and ring.
Sorting out fitment... a ball is going to have to be a test platform - no way around it. Choose a cheaper/older one to sacrifice. Make each change, and maybe bowl 20 games with it over a few weeks to see. Getting the span/pitch combo that works and doesn't make the hand complain is the primary goal. I went through two major landmarks. First was a span just a little too long for the pitch. It seemed ok in the shop but... somewhere early in game 3, and the tendons in my fingers complained from stretch. Had to do something. Solution? For me, it was about 1/16 span reduction plus more reverse finger pitch [1/4 and 3/8 if I remember]. Second was the thumb [I used switch grips at the time]. I observed going past 3 games was annoying regardless of which grip used, or tape - thumb chafing on the side was an issue arising from side pitch/pressure during release. [Thumb was comfortable just holding the ball]. That problem made me try something new: "offset ring finger". Personally, I like to call it an offset thumb, because that's how I lay it out: [for my hand] I draw a line hinging away from the midline starting at where it meets the line under fingerholes + 12 degrees. That offset maps centerline where thumbhole is measured to and drilled. Side pitch now being reduced, no more problems - bowl a half dozen games and the side of my thumb [primarily near nail bed] quit being an issue. We all have different hand sizes, so I won't ever say 12 is "it" - some might use 14, others 8. Short/wide hands need a bigger relief, long/narrow hands need less, if going this route.
Had thumb stick 4 weeks ago pulled everything all the way up arm thumb swollen badly for weeks. Had to change everything after. Lesson, don't make do get it checked early and often
Great video. I've been having pain in my right wrist that could be a result of work related issues. Would you consider doing a video on someone transitioning from being a right handed bowler to a left handed bowler due to injury? I would like to know your thought or suggestions.
IBSIA method works for the majority of bowlers but their technique really doesn't take into account how to fit for people with odd thumb hinges. It just works because their method will just happen to work for the majority of people and then you can fudge the fit with a lot of bevel. In my opinion bevel should be for comfort, but almost all operators use it to get people out of the thumb when they hang up because of improper span and pitches. Been bowling for 35 years, flown around the country, and I've yet to find an operator that can look a my hand and drill me a ball that I can get out of.
I love vacus and think experimenting is important. I used an old ball to try out a lot of things like vacu fits and stuff. I've mostly been changing insert sizes on top of that and I've even tried adding a quarter inch span and settled on 1/8 since it is a nice middle ground that has a lot of versatility to me. My pro shop has even gotten to where they don't charge me for all my inserts or other things I'm doing because I'm in so much lol. Thumb shape and size is one of the last things I am working on right now since I like a piece of tape or two for texture but if I'm layering 4 or 5 pieces it's off by a fair bit and that's not so good. I even got a set of high grit sandpaper to try finish in the thumb hole because too low eats up my skin since it's sensitive but too high it just sticks too much haha
i have the finger tip inserts in my ball, watching your video when i put my thumb all the way in my joint is really close to the bottom of the hole, not even close to the middle , i have asked before at my local shop and they say its fine. . Is there a way to correct this this fit
Great vid as always, would be awesome to have mark on the lanes with you guys, to really help visualize the difference between a great and not so great fit. Also what a good and bad layout would do out on the lanes.
I just went through a fit change, a shorter span feels and fits better, however, my hand is more meaty on my palm around my thumb and it caused callouses under my thumb and palm. Loved the feel and additional rev rate but had to go back to a longer span😢. Thought about trying reverse in the pitch in thumb hole but my gut feeling said to just go back to a longer span with shortening my middle finger a little. Thoughts?
Have you ever drilled for someone with a vert inflexible thumb? I fail to bend my thumb at the base at all. If i want to hold something between thumb and fingers i have to move the whole area below the base of the thumb. I tried forward pitch and i cannot release the ball at all that way, i always hang up in it. Been playing reverse because of that my whole life, but i feel i can never completely relax my hand inside, cause i'ts not sticking 100% to the thumb because of the reverse
Ok I have a good question is I bowl with my pinky finger and ring finger I never use my birdie finger and I had problems with my fitting about 14 years and I went to 7 pro shops gave up. They all look laugh at me but I think my pinky hole needs to be further down but they never do that can you tell me why look at your hand and look how far your pinky finger is down
Hmm I would suggest measure your hand normally. Then put your thumb in and mark where the pinky should go. Since there really isn’t a measuring tactic for the pinky
i got my first ball a couple months ago, and what i notice is 2 things: first- the finger grips fit well the first game, but by the second game my fingers swell and i can no longer fit them properly. how do i remedy that? second- it seems as if the thumb hole is too loose. what can i do to make it a bit tighter?
I had my fit checked when i drilled the hyraod hybrid about a month ago. Question for you guys, do you have any tourney 3 ball bags and any sst boa's? They are really hard to come by in california. Please let me know, thank you and have a good day!
How many times can you change your layout for a bowling ball before ruining it? My original layout was recommended by the proshop when I said how I bowl ?
There is almost no information about lateral pitches. How do you calculate lateral pitches, and how would you go about adjusting lateral pitches if needed?
Just started bowling after 10 yrs off. I'm starting to have pain in middle and ring finger after a few games and stays for a few day after. Dropped down to 15 lbs from 16 and it didn't seem to help.
On the thumb oval, how much play left to right should there be? Meaning, should you be able to move your thumb either direction before the oval stops it from moving? 5 degrees? 10 degrees? Each way?
The oval angle won't necessarily be a left to right issue. My offset is about 45 degrees. Hands have a bit of variation. When your thumb is in the hole with hand in, you should be able to mark with a grease pencil where the width is. This is where you need to open the oval up. I usually start with the back side oval.. the side of the thumb that points away from the fingers. I open that more than the front side. I spend a good hour or more slowly working a new thumb to oval fit. Always had problems with thumb sticking until I realized my thumb is 15/16ths wide and only 13/16ths high. tape was never enough to give a good fit.
My entire life I've had issues with the skin on the outside of my thumb tearing after 5 or 6 games. I try to use baby powder as much as I can without affecting my grip too much to help prevent tearing, but I don't know what else to do to prevent it. My thumb hole looks round, not oval.
So for most grips the pilot hole that the grips go in is 31/32. Vacu grips uses a 1 1/32 bit to start then steps down to a normal 31/32. What this does is gives more room at the top of the hole for the finger insert (grip) to expand
i've had two fits, by two different "pro" shop opps here in the UK, and they've both been terrible, thumb hurts like heck, even when saying it, they didn't do anything to make it better. very discouraging especially since here in the UK there isn't a billion pro shops next to eachother. edit: forgot to add, because of it being so discouraging that two "pro shops" can't seem to actually get the thumb-hole right/comfortable, i'm gonna learn how to 2hand bowl and eliminate the problem of the pro shop.
Say ? You said at the end your finger doesn’t bend. Question for you. My ring finger at the 1st knuckle doesn’t bend. At All. Broke it in high school & had surgery. Two pins inserted. Been struggling getting a good fit Was wondering ur thoughts
So here is a unique issue. I am missing half of my ring and pinky finger on my right hand, so I use the first two fingers. Every pro I have seen doesn't seem to be sure how to drill my balls. I've thought a out going 2 handed but I'm over 60.
Last time was about 5 months ago and I just gave up no pro shop can't fit me in a ball. I bowl with my pinky finger I don't use my birdie finger my ring finger and pinky in the hole I went through 8 pro shops like I said I gave up
I been bowling with no thumb. I been told I will have more control and my Ave will go up with my thumb or become a two handed bowler. Not really trying to bowl two handed. Was also told I can use my thumb but half way. So my thumb but to the 1st joint. Any help or advise.
It’s probably not the right idea, but I actually switched to two handed because i felt like it had a lot less tear on my hands and fingers by removing the thumb hole and using more of my body to bowl
What do I do if I have one foot 1.2 inches short wish is my right leg so am not able to walk in blanched and my left leg is still the one I sided with and my ball is not the way I what it to be my pro shop did not drill the ball the way I would like
It's been at least 10 years since I actually bowled in League cuz of family money etc I want to get back in it but I felt my grip wasn't right to help me get to the next level The problem I was having was when I would stick my fingers in the ball when I reached back to put in my thumb I felt like my fingers were coming a little out of the ball to meet the grip but at the time the pro shop was a good pro shop but I don't think I had anybody to really help me as I needed so I feel it was a wrong spand what's your opinion
Mark stated that he has all this access to the equipment, yet no changes are made. All that told me is that waste is minimal in that shop, that he is a great employee and stays busy selling.
Is the thumb supposed to go all the way into the hole. I have been bowling a year now and I can only get the thumb to above the first joint. Any deeper and it sticks and I throw junk.
Generally you should be able to get your thumb close to or down to the base. There are some bowlers that are “thumb tippers” though. Mainly it’s about what is comfortable for you and how you want to throw the ball.
Are you gripping with your thumb? At release you should have the thumb relaxed, if anything pushing the back of the thumb against the hole so it comes off nicely. Try doing this with the yo-yo test they did and if it comes off okay you're probably gripping too much. If it doesn't it may be the wrong fit
I get the callus/blister on the out side of my thumb. Would squeezing the ball to much cause that? The squeeze is an old habbit I'm still struggling with.
Another great video guys! I really appreciate your knowledge and reaction videos. I’ve been having some wrist pain issues lately, I actually do find my self gripping the ball. Would fixing that help with my wrist pain?
When you said you have your thing’s fit a little more forward, are you still in a reverse pitch or is it actually forward? I just got my thumb done with an interchangeable but my PSO has it at a 5/16th reverse when I had a 1/4 reverse before. Feels like I have to grab on both. Worse now.
QUESTION: When was the last time you had your bowling fit checked?
It was probably in September or October of 2021
Last Thursday. Got a Roto Grip Rubicon uc2 drilled. My pro shop operator is amazing
10 years lol, gonna definitely need a new fit for my next ball.
Way too long ago.. 🤣🤦🏼♂️
6 weeks ago and found my span was 1/4 of an inch short, my game has improved greatly
The last time my hand was fitted, was about 3 months ago, when I bought my spare ball from Barks! Spare accuracy has gone up substantially!
Fit is how you get your average up. Had all my thumbs redrilled a couple of months ago. It cost about as much as a new ball. But it was worth it. Changed slug type, drill type, and zero taper. Bowled 698 tonight with 24 strikes. 💯
Actually good to see these informational videos with CORRECT UP TO DATE info. Good PSO's are so hard to find. Hopefully, PSO's will watch this video. Funny, but not really funny, story. My first bowling ball I walked into a pro shop, the pso told me to put my fingers in his bowling ball. Mind you, he was 6'4" 250-300 lbs and I'm 5'8" 190 lbs. He looked at me hand in the ball and said ok, "I can get you taken care of." Not a mention of pap, span, pitches etc... You can imagine how good that fit was.🤦 At the time I lived in po dunk West Virginia, population 2200. There was only one psi within 2 hours of where I was. Eventually I drove that two hours because my wrist hurt so bad I thought I was going to have to quit bowling, before I really even started. My span was still too long but was usable. I moved to Raliegh, NC where PSO's aren't hard to find. I tried 3 different PSO's, all with glowing recommendations, half a dozen fits and easily $2000 on drilling over 2 years. Finally found an amazing PSO. The second I threw the ball it was magical how perfect it fits. Point being, different PSO's have different experiences and ways of doing things. Just because fit isn't perfect doesn't mean the pso is bad. Just may not be a good PSO for you. Unless of course it's the first variety of PSO I mentioned. He was terrible and lazy. So many people walk in and say, "I want this this and this changed." I have built trust with my PSO to walk in and say, "this is what I'm feeling, what do you think we should do?" Part of building that trust is him watching me throw the ball, each time I think something is off. Sometimes it's a physical game thing and not my fit at all. It takes a good PSO to be able to know the difference.
Which pro shop/PSO do you recommend in the Raleigh area?
Great idea to have Mark to give his opinion on fit in your proshop. Not sure many shops would do that. Very informative 👏 👌
Most do not. It's their way.
or the highway. You feel like they don't have the time for you.
Grip checked last week. I started having a pain on base of my thumb for last 2 months. My span is way too long and needs reverse pitch in fingers due to inflexibility. This video is SPOT ON!
As a no thumb two hander I've been experimenting with my pro shop operator to put a small mark near where the base of my thumb would be in my one handed grip. I use this mark to line the ball up the same way on my palm each time. When I was in a coaching session with Mark Baker (when he was in town) we experimented with moving that mark left and right in my palm (but keeping the X covered by my palm) to see if it makes different ball reactions. I'm still learning what that does, but one way did seem to help create more sideroll naturally.
this sounds like a great idea! i'll have to talk to my pro shop guy.
Sorry, your "fit" means nothing with a thumbless and two handed bowling.... You are not a bowler. You a bocce ball player.
Great video. So, I have only been bowling since late 2019. But the 1st 20 months (including COVID) was spent finding the proper fit FOR ME. Took 3 pro shops to find someone willing to guide, but also listen. Thank you Mike Sarandrea! Only you know and can tell someone how a fit feels on the hand, so find a shop that is willing to work with you. Again, great job JR staff. One day I hope to visit your shop in BC.
Been about 5 years looking at it this summer. You guys do a great job with the channel
Thanks brotha!
I had a bad fit for a few years, I started having someone else drill my stuff for me and it’s a world of difference
One question please.
When your fingers and thumb are in the ball, how much space, if any, should I have between my hand and the surface of the ball.
from what i know the finger holes (not thumb) should not go in deeper than the first crease in your finger
Should be able to fit a pencil between it snugly
This is the best video on the topic I have seen in a long time. Bill Taylor and Mo would be proud. Bravo!
Updated my fit from scratch last year. So far so good 👌
Very good info. Most important for the regular bowlers is we do not have the option/money to drill a ball 2,3, or 4 times until it fits good. So, for me the question is: How do you know 'your ProShop' knows what they are doing. I came back to bowling after a 35 yr lay off and of course the ProShop had changed owners. I won't give details but without a doubt my fit/drilling is not correct. And prior to drilling the only thing that was done was a hole size and span length....he did not come over to the lanes to see how I threw a ball, nothing. So now I'm stuck with a $200 investment that is not as good as it could be, I have no confidence that he can make it any better and no idea of where I can go to get things corrected ( i live in a rural area with only one Proshop).
Great question. To measure a hand from scratch it should take about 10 mins. And then the extra stuff like pap tilt etc should take another 15 mins. So 30ish mins for you for your first time if you’re serious about it
I’m in the same situation. I don’t think the local pro shop wants to delve into Al the science of ball fit and drilling. What’s a guy to do?
@@jrproshop They only have a few holes to test your thumb in at mine 😭
Yeah same thing happened to me. First person to fill my gear, fit perfectly, never had an issue. Now I have you wear tape, drill the thumb differently, change my whole approach… it’s been a mess.
Ask other bowlers where they get their balls drilled.
Amazing video! Mark Buffa, you can really tell you know what you’re doing and this is some of the best fit advice I’ve ever heard.
This is the exact video ive been looking for and needing for years! Excellent video. Watched luis napoles video on the top channels and came here to check it out. Ive never had a fit check since i started bowling 50 yrs ago. Im excited now to get checked out.
Got fitted in November, alongside my PAP. I figure I'll do it every year at the same time, during my Thanksgiving break, since they local PSO recommends doing it that frequently.
This is a very good explanation for those of us who only know what a good fit feels like and how light a properly fit ball feels upon release. I wish I had access to your expertise.
I'm right handed who had a serious injury to my right hand when I was 1½ years old. My hand does not open flat, it is the natural shape of a ball sitting in it. My middle finger is bent at my last joint near my finger tip toward my index. Looking down at the top of my knuckles, it also rotates clockwise about ³/¹⁶. This knuckle gets sore and achy inside thus knuckle after 3 games of league. Also my thumb hole is mostly round, not oval. I always thought it should be oval, but I could not get a shop to spend the time to get it or to understand my abnormal hand issues. I've always rolled a finger tip drilled ball. I bowled until my early thirties. Looking back, I started out naturally as a cranker, perhaps to alleviate some of my hand pain issues. I had a side impact in a car accident, with my seat belt and shoulder strap properly worn. Unfortunately, the belt kept my hips locked in, but the shoulder strap allowed my shoulders to violently rotate to the right. I had to stop bowling at that time because my lower back and sciatica hurt all season. 25 years later, my grandson looked at me after I explained I can't bowl because of my accident and post bowl, back issues. He looked at me and asked why I couldn't just learn to bowl another way. 💡 came on. I did learn to become a stroker. That was 24 years ago. Unfortunately this is when my hand issue started to become a real problem. My span was too long at first, and each new shop would tell me the span was too long and reduce it. The last time finally got it, I think. After my 4th Shop fitted my span, I had the middle finger pain issue get worse. I really enjoy bowling, but because of my specific fit issues, I struggle, but vow not to stop until I get it fit for my issues, so I can continue to enjoy this great game.
I would love it if you could look at pictures of my hand and make some suggestions, that a local shop could follow, to help me obtain the joy, with reduced pain, of my favorite game.
Thank you,
Tom
@DarrenTangs187
I haven't used telegram. I'll need to see if I can figure it out. Thank you for listening and caring.
Tom
*callus Calais is a city in France. Just helping out.
I haven't bowled in about 15 years, but I want to get back into the game while also changing how I throw (formerly 2 handed, want to switch to 1 handed). I'm heading into my local shop next weekend, and the question Jungo asked at 11:54 is exactly what has been going through my mind, since the last ball I had drilled for me would just fall off my thumb on the backswing.
I'm planning on having them start with a spare ball and once happy with the layout, have it drilled into a reactive. That way, in case it's wrong, I'm not plugging/drilling a $150 ball just to make sure I'm comfortable.
Jungo & Barks provided me with the best fitment to date & made me realize how bad my other balls were drilled 🙏🙏
This was great to hear some of these questions and answers. Thank you!
Great content. This is the best ball fitting video out right now! Very informative and really helpful for those looking to dial in the right fit!
My feeling is that if the fit is poor or not optimized it leads to pains and strains and lower scores. And in turn people start to experiment with no thumb bowling, due to frustration with not having a proper fit. We need educated and patient Drilling professionals in order to take the game to another level. To me two handed bowling is born of a bad fit and people want to get more rotation and tilt variations more quickly. It will not grow the game as it takes less talent to roll the ball without the thumb. Obviously there are exceptions to this, however I feel this is the trend. Along with having more marketing in the different balls leading to the misconception that its the "ball".
This is the guy we all want to be our pro shop guy wow the knowledge is unreal
This video prompted me to get fit last week. Prior to that, my most recent fit check was pre-COVID.
My span was too long. Getting one ball plugged and redrilled to check. My PSO didn't tell me how much it was off. But later at home when I checked, the 1st knuckle didn't even reach the finger hole!
Will update when I try the new fit next week. I'll take Mark's advice and get fit at least every 18 months
Came out of 5 year bowling retirement 3 weeks ago. Had to start completely over. I need to work on making thumb hole tighter. Always kinking thumb to hang on.
Been working with our top Storm rep lately, and he's in tuned to my needs and his knowledge... facts..stay in the game completely..great job.
very informative ball fit instruction...sure helps in my finger and thumb hole concerns...thanks jr--
Fantastic info. Thanks a lot
I enjoyed this video a lot!
A huge part of a bowling game is the fit of a bowling ball, and I think that you managed to explain a big part of it here. It is so personal, and different from player to player, that it makes it extremely hard to get a proper fit without the help of an expert pro shop operator, who has the knowledge, but especially the patience and goodwill, to take the time and find out what a bowler needs.
One of your better videos, can't wait for another one on a similar topic! :))
This is excellent content Gents. I always learn a lot from Mark.
I just had my hand refitted by a different PSO than the one I've been going to my entire life and they shortened my span a little, added a little more reverse pitch on the thumb and also went a size smaller on the thumb hole and WOW. the ball feels so much better in the hand and there is a lot less stress on my thumb, which I was having a couple of issues with.
4:13 - This can't be spoken about enough. I have a spatulate thumb, but I bowled for _decades_ with a round thumb hole. The PSO I used to go to would make the hole snug on the sides and simply remove the extra with a bevel tool. I thought that was all that could be done, so I dealt with it. I don't use tape. I've never used tape. I don't want to use tape. Don't tell me to use tape, because I'm not going to use tape.
I went to a new pro shop four years ago where the PSO actually drilled me an oval thumb hole. OMG! Did you ever have a pair of shoes that fit you so well, you forgot you were wearing them? That's what a thumb hole _that actually fits your thumb_ is supposed to feel like. All the blisters and calluses he's talking about, I had a lot of these at various points in my 40 years of bowling when I had a round hole. The last four? Nothing. No calluses, no bruising, not even a dimple and, except for lockdown, I've bowled at least two leagues a week. Even better, I get that perfect fit with no tape. If your thumb isn't round, find a PSO who can drill oval thumb holes. You will not regret it.
Great timing crew! I'm current experiencing fitment issues. Nice tips!
The callous on the inside of my thumb has been there since I was 15 (35 years). I took twenty years off in the middle and it never went away. I beat the hell out of my thumb in my teenage years.
wow I think it has been about 3-4 years but have had no problems but should get it looked at.
I haven’t had my bowling fit checked in about 2-3 years. It would be nice to be able to throw more revs but I’m physically unable to. It’s okay though I try to make the best with what I have
Really great video
I watch a lot of bowling videos and in my opinion your Chanel is by far my favorite. You give great advice and I love your videos. Thank you so much for all the time effort and energy you put out to make these videos to help all of us
Got my first ball on Wednesday! Hammer effect is awesome 🤩
Another informative tutorial. Well edited. I do appreciate my local pro shop.
My family and friends just started bowling this year and our local pro shop has been great. Thank you Will from King Pins. You guys are awesome!
When I bought my ball in 1993. 😁
(I am actually looking at getting a new ball, because I recently started bowling again and it just doesn’t feel right. It was a cheap ball, so if I buy a new one I won’t shed a lot of tears over it.)
Thank you for this very informative video. I'm just getting back into bowling after a 30-40 year absence. Looking forward to getting fitted for my first ever personal ball.
I am just getting back in to bowling because of my grandsons. My ball from the past feels like it is going to tear my knuckle off of my thumb on release. I had the local pro shop look at it and he opened it up a little but not enough.
Thanks for this video,loads of safety infos!
Been looking at going back to league bowling after 10 years not playing regularly. Last ball I had drilled was a good 12-13 years ago and I want to get a new ball done to start out fresh with all of the ball technology changes to include lane oiling patterns. Every ball I had from starting bowling at 3-4 years old to the last one I have are all conventionally drilled. How hard is it to switch from conventional drilled to finger tip based? Looking for some opinions here to decide how to have a new ball drilled.
I actually got my grip checked a week or so ago. I tried sarge Easter grip due to some pain I was having in the first joint of my ring finger, which prompted my grip check three years ago. I used it for almost a week now and I like the feel of it.
Great info. Keep up the good work. Thanks
I've only had my ball fit checked the day I got it drilled... ten plus years ago. Brunswick Slingshot black and silver pearl. Feels kinda odd playing with now that I've started bowling again. I've also lost 160 lbs, so that might be why it feels different.
Super informative video once again guys! Been a while since I’ve had a fit check, but being two handed makes it easier. For all the two handers out there, PLEASE apply some form of reverse pitch if you like to dig. Its a complete game changer!
Last year, some issue with outside of thumb bump- hurts, now using tape
Cool to see you guys together. Get Rambo Ray on be of your shows. Thanks
2 fits since I returned to bowling in 2019. RH 4 1/4 middle 4 3/8 ring; now 4 1/2 middle and ring.
Sorting out fitment... a ball is going to have to be a test platform - no way around it. Choose a cheaper/older one to sacrifice. Make each change, and maybe bowl 20 games with it over a few weeks to see. Getting the span/pitch combo that works and doesn't make the hand complain is the primary goal. I went through two major landmarks. First was a span just a little too long for the pitch. It seemed ok in the shop but... somewhere early in game 3, and the tendons in my fingers complained from stretch. Had to do something. Solution? For me, it was about 1/16 span reduction plus more reverse finger pitch [1/4 and 3/8 if I remember]. Second was the thumb [I used switch grips at the time]. I observed going past 3 games was annoying regardless of which grip used, or tape - thumb chafing on the side was an issue arising from side pitch/pressure during release. [Thumb was comfortable just holding the ball]. That problem made me try something new: "offset ring finger". Personally, I like to call it an offset thumb, because that's how I lay it out: [for my hand] I draw a line hinging away from the midline starting at where it meets the line under fingerholes + 12 degrees. That offset maps centerline where thumbhole is measured to and drilled. Side pitch now being reduced, no more problems - bowl a half dozen games and the side of my thumb [primarily near nail bed] quit being an issue. We all have different hand sizes, so I won't ever say 12 is "it" - some might use 14, others 8. Short/wide hands need a bigger relief, long/narrow hands need less, if going this route.
Had thumb stick 4 weeks ago pulled everything all the way up arm thumb swollen badly for weeks. Had to change everything after. Lesson, don't make do get it checked early and often
never been fitted! new to bowling going to get a ball fitted tonight. looking for info good video
Just getting back into the sport, and its been since '06-'07 probably... only slightly over due for a new fit.
Great video. I've been having pain in my right wrist that could be a result of work related issues. Would you consider doing a video on someone transitioning from being a right handed bowler to a left handed bowler due to injury? I would like to know your thought or suggestions.
Good info. Any fit suggestions for when after a few frames the ball just falls off your thumb, even with tape?
IBSIA method works for the majority of bowlers but their technique really doesn't take into account how to fit for people with odd thumb hinges. It just works because their method will just happen to work for the majority of people and then you can fudge the fit with a lot of bevel. In my opinion bevel should be for comfort, but almost all operators use it to get people out of the thumb when they hang up because of improper span and pitches. Been bowling for 35 years, flown around the country, and I've yet to find an operator that can look a my hand and drill me a ball that I can get out of.
I love vacus and think experimenting is important. I used an old ball to try out a lot of things like vacu fits and stuff. I've mostly been changing insert sizes on top of that and I've even tried adding a quarter inch span and settled on 1/8 since it is a nice middle ground that has a lot of versatility to me. My pro shop has even gotten to where they don't charge me for all my inserts or other things I'm doing because I'm in so much lol. Thumb shape and size is one of the last things I am working on right now since I like a piece of tape or two for texture but if I'm layering 4 or 5 pieces it's off by a fair bit and that's not so good. I even got a set of high grit sandpaper to try finish in the thumb hole because too low eats up my skin since it's sensitive but too high it just sticks too much haha
Two months ago changed my span 3/16 for my ring and 1/4 on my middle finger because I grew lol
When you said you went “a little more forward” in your thumb, what was the final measurement?
What is your overall span?
i have the finger tip inserts in my ball, watching your video when i put my thumb all the way in my joint is really close to the bottom of the hole, not even close to the middle , i have asked before at my local shop and they say its fine. . Is there a way to correct this
this fit
Great vid as always, would be awesome to have mark on the lanes with you guys, to really help visualize the difference between a great and not so great fit. Also what a good and bad layout would do out on the lanes.
Last time was last December by Mr Frank Buffa. Everything bowling wise got better once i got the right fit!
Frank is the man!
About a year and a half ago when I got my first bowling ball
I just went through a fit change, a shorter span feels and fits better, however, my hand is more meaty on my palm around my thumb and it caused callouses under my thumb and palm. Loved the feel and additional rev rate but had to go back to a longer span😢. Thought about trying reverse in the pitch in thumb hole but my gut feeling said to just go back to a longer span with shortening my middle finger a little. Thoughts?
I found out my favorite ball is band from usbc league phaze 4 and trend 2 what a good ball to use at the usbc league
Have you ever drilled for someone with a vert inflexible thumb? I fail to bend my thumb at the base at all. If i want to hold something between thumb and fingers i have to move the whole area below the base of the thumb.
I tried forward pitch and i cannot release the ball at all that way, i always hang up in it. Been playing reverse because of that my whole life, but i feel i can never completely relax my hand inside, cause i'ts not sticking 100% to the thumb because of the reverse
Ok I have a good question is I bowl with my pinky finger and ring finger I never use my birdie finger and I had problems with my fitting about 14 years and I went to 7 pro shops gave up. They all look laugh at me but I think my pinky hole needs to be further down but they never do that can you tell me why look at your hand and look how far your pinky finger is down
Hmm I would suggest measure your hand normally. Then put your thumb in and mark where the pinky should go. Since there really isn’t a measuring tactic for the pinky
i got my first ball a couple months ago, and what i notice is 2 things:
first- the finger grips fit well the first game, but by the second game my fingers swell and i can no longer fit them properly. how do i remedy that?
second- it seems as if the thumb hole is too loose. what can i do to make it a bit tighter?
Span was just readjusted. Thumb felt good until league started and the ball was trying to keep my thumb. Should I open thumb hole a little more?
I had my fit checked when i drilled the hyraod hybrid about a month ago. Question for you guys, do you have any tourney 3 ball bags and any sst boa's? They are really hard to come by in california. Please let me know, thank you and have a good day!
Email us! Jrproshop2017@gmail.com
AWESOME VID!!!!
How many times can you change your layout for a bowling ball before ruining it? My original layout was recommended by the proshop when I said how I bowl ?
There is almost no information about lateral pitches. How do you calculate lateral pitches, and how would you go about adjusting lateral pitches if needed?
I'm still experimenting with mine, but as of now, I have something that's workable.
Just started bowling after 10 yrs off. I'm starting to have pain in middle and ring finger after a few games and stays for a few day after. Dropped down to 15 lbs from 16 and it didn't seem to help.
Yes check your fit. Probably the issue
On the thumb oval, how much play left to right should there be? Meaning, should you be able to move your thumb either direction before the oval stops it from moving? 5 degrees? 10 degrees? Each way?
The oval angle won't necessarily be a left to right issue. My offset is about 45 degrees. Hands have a bit of variation. When your thumb is in the hole with hand in, you should be able to mark with a grease pencil where the width is. This is where you need to open the oval up. I usually start with the back side oval.. the side of the thumb that points away from the fingers. I open that more than the front side. I spend a good hour or more slowly working a new thumb to oval fit. Always had problems with thumb sticking until I realized my thumb is 15/16ths wide and only 13/16ths high. tape was never enough to give a good fit.
@@chasbari thank you…how did final figure out your thumbs dimensions that you posted?
There should be no play, your thumb should be snug in the oval
My entire life I've had issues with the skin on the outside of my thumb tearing after 5 or 6 games. I try to use baby powder as much as I can without affecting my grip too much to help prevent tearing, but I don't know what else to do to prevent it. My thumb hole looks round, not oval.
Oval helped me a ton. They Have to manually work thumb out to fit properly and I've never seen a round thumb 😆
Yea sounds like a thumb hole shape or pitch problem. Find a pro shop that can drill an oval on the drill press. It’ll be very accurate and repeatable
Great information. Unfortunately for me, according to this video I've never had a good fitting bowling ball.
What exactly do vacu grips do?
So for most grips the pilot hole that the grips go in is 31/32. Vacu grips uses a 1 1/32 bit to start then steps down to a normal 31/32. What this does is gives more room at the top of the hole for the finger insert (grip) to expand
i've had two fits, by two different "pro" shop opps here in the UK, and they've both been terrible, thumb hurts like heck, even when saying it, they didn't do anything to make it better.
very discouraging especially since here in the UK there isn't a billion pro shops next to eachother.
edit: forgot to add, because of it being so discouraging that two "pro shops" can't seem to actually get the thumb-hole right/comfortable, i'm gonna learn how to 2hand bowl and eliminate the problem of the pro shop.
Say ? You said at the end your finger doesn’t bend. Question for you. My ring finger at the 1st knuckle doesn’t bend. At All. Broke it in high school & had surgery. Two pins inserted. Been struggling getting a good fit Was wondering ur thoughts
So here is a unique issue. I am missing half of my ring and pinky finger on my right hand, so I use the first two fingers. Every pro I have seen doesn't seem to be sure how to drill my balls. I've thought a out going 2 handed but I'm over 60.
Last time was about 5 months ago and I just gave up no pro shop can't fit me in a ball. I bowl with my pinky finger I don't use my birdie finger my ring finger and pinky in the hole I went through 8 pro shops like I said I gave up
Me to I bowl with my pinky finger too and had this problem for 7 years
I been bowling with no thumb. I been told I will have more control and my Ave will go up with my thumb or become a two handed bowler. Not really trying to bowl two handed. Was also told I can use my thumb but half way. So my thumb but to the 1st joint. Any help or advise.
It’s probably not the right idea, but I actually switched to two handed because i felt like it had a lot less tear on my hands and fingers by removing the thumb hole and using more of my body to bowl
What do I do if I have one foot 1.2 inches short wish is my right leg so am not able to walk in blanched and my left leg is still the one I sided with and my ball is not the way I what it to be my pro shop did not drill the ball the way I would like
It's been at least 10 years since I actually bowled in League cuz of family money etc I want to get back in it but I felt my grip wasn't right to help me get to the next level The problem I was having was when I would stick my fingers in the ball when I reached back to put in my thumb I felt like my fingers were coming a little out of the ball to meet the grip but at the time the pro shop was a good pro shop but I don't think I had anybody to really help me as I needed so I feel it was a wrong spand what's your opinion
Mark stated that he has all this access to the equipment, yet no changes are made. All that told me is that waste is minimal in that shop, that he is a great employee and stays busy selling.
Is the thumb supposed to go all the way into the hole. I have been bowling a year now and I can only get the thumb to above the first joint. Any deeper and it sticks and I throw junk.
Generally you should be able to get your thumb close to or down to the base. There are some bowlers that are “thumb tippers” though. Mainly it’s about what is comfortable for you and how you want to throw the ball.
@@jeremiegrund thank you, I’ll talk to my PSO next time I see him
Are you gripping with your thumb? At release you should have the thumb relaxed, if anything pushing the back of the thumb against the hole so it comes off nicely. Try doing this with the yo-yo test they did and if it comes off okay you're probably gripping too much. If it doesn't it may be the wrong fit
I definitely got bruising on my middle fingernail. I guess I need a different pitch? Or span? Or both?
Either the span is too long or you need more reverse pitch in that finger
I get the callus/blister on the out side of my thumb. Would squeezing the ball to much cause that? The squeeze is an old habbit I'm still struggling with.
Another great video guys! I really appreciate your knowledge and reaction videos. I’ve been having some wrist pain issues lately, I actually do find my self gripping the ball. Would fixing that help with my wrist pain?
It might yes. You want a nice snug fit so you don’t have to grip it and squeeze it
Does this really apply for two handers is there anything different I should be doing ??
Did you decide to use the vacu-grips?
Yes
Not sure what the terminology is but what is best? A finger drilled for the first knuckle or the second knuckle
the terminologies are conventional drill (second kunckle) and fingertip drill (first knuckle)
I get a callous on the inside tip of my thumb, is that normal?
As long as it’s just a callous
When you said you have your thing’s fit a little more forward, are you still in a reverse pitch or is it actually forward? I just got my thumb done with an interchangeable but my PSO has it at a 5/16th reverse when I had a 1/4 reverse before. Feels like I have to grab on both. Worse now.
Are some of the storms in bowling balls so bad from USBC tournaments