The Big Build 18. How I hang joists and make a triple ply beam using a router to flush joist hangers
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ส.ค. 2024
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In this episode of The Big Build I am making a supporting beam that will catch the end of some of the Posi Joists near the stairwell. The metal hangers are quite thick and when you factor in the twist nail head thickness the flooring will not sit flat when being laid, my solution is to use a router to accommodate the metal thickness and the nail head, its takes no time at all but the result is a perfect floor, something really important to me!!
The wife is watching Celebrity Bake Off and I am getting no grief watching The Big Build . Pure Bliss.
and me lol
Couldn't agree more mate
We're all out of the same mould 😂👍
🤣👏👍
I am very impressed by how he speaks to his apprentice and helpers ie Respectfully!!
You get better results from people by having respect for those who are there to learn, not screamed at or shouted at!
Well done Master Clevett
There's nothing like watching a master craftsman at work. Sheer pleasure.
@@stephenwalters8006 "A person who is skilled, especially someone who makes things by hand."
"hugeye and the Clash of the Hangers" coming to a cinema near YOU!
I love the way you are always thinking ahead, and what looks like pedancy to detail will pay you back in time savings later on in the job. It a good lesson for any building project.
I love the attention to detail in routing out the top of the beam for the folded over joist hangers; I suspect many wouldn't bother.
Thank you John, I believe that if you can improve the final outcome by spending a small amount of time improving the build process then do it!!! Thanks for the comment
It’s this attention to detail that sets you far above of others.Its a shame the client does not see this detail , other trades will admire and learn though.
Spectacular Robin …. The vids are so professional and match your excellence … great job to your team too it’s so wonderful you’ve contributed this way sharing your knowledge and bright personality
Robins favourite song bar none! Spandau ballet - True 😆😆♥️
Really good to see a lengthy video. Great insights as always, Robin.
Glad you enjoyed it!
To Stephen who replied. What I was trying to ask was the 16" on centre that the Americans use. When they show the lay out for the studs, they measure 16" from the end of the bottom plate then subtract 3/4" which becomes the edge where they put the stud. Using 4x2s which are apparently 1&1/2" x 3&1/2" true measure they use this system so that when they nail on the stud, it is their 16" on centre. I am not a builder and in Australia we are metric but this is the easiest way I could explain my question.
"Clash of the Hangers", you know that's a film name.
Showing experience as always Robin 👍
Simple man me, I see a new RC upload. I click.
Have to admit, I am a fanboy of Robin and his vids. Wife is worried ! : ) I just like to see skilled tradesmen/craftsmen in whatever field. I think it all stems back to the late Seventies when ( as a kid) I was at a glass blowing factory with my dad; it was fascinating.
Spent five years in apprenticeship from 1961-1967shopfitting. Why do we not have proper apprenticeships today, turn out more guys like Robin?
Looking very snazzy in your new diamondback Robin! 😊 Picked up quite a few tips too, very clear and precise. Thanks 👍👍
Very neat and precise as usual. Going the extra yard.
..and the extra couple of millimeters..total pleasure to watch and learn 👍
@ Robin Clevett .Robin, when you are marking out the hangers, have you considered squaring your lines over with the *square of choice*, then going over with the hanger to mark the tab taper. Saves it creeping as you tip it over the shoulder. Never tried routing them out though! saw and chisel is enough precision for a oik like me
A true craftsman and a brilliant carpenter i would really learn loads of tips and tricks of you thanks mate 👍
Great to watch & I love the attention to detail!
Hello Robin awesome work mate, little
Update on my apprentices I took them to enroll and just like our journey to this point is was absolutely ridiculous, nobody knew what happening and I got told they start at 9 Friday. That was it, I asked do they need PPE aswell as a few more questions etc no one could tell me anything, the tutor wasn’t even there he’d been “ double booked “ 🤦🏼♂️
Ridiculous!!!!
There is an old film called 1941 where Peter Cushing does the magazine glass gag well funny, he takes it away from his eye and has s massive eye!!!!! Pleasure to watch you work sir!
I'd expect nothing short of perfect (no less)
luv your work Robin
Troy
Robin, curious-have you ever attempted screwing (with Spax) into hard wood GL Beams as most of your jobs entail utilising softwood. I'm feeling a comparison vid !
Troy
👍 did I hear you say you can use twist nails in a gun , have to show that ,it was always a job for the apprentice 😁👋🇮🇪☘️🤟
Next video John!!
Really enjoying the build! A joy to watch.
Good to see a longer video
Job done, properly! Great job guys.👏👍😀
Nice work Robbin you have brains
Robin showing off the right bicep from 0.00 to 1.45
Why not just request / specify face fix hangers onto your solid trimmer and save all the time routing? Face fix hangers can achieve exactly the same performance? If your joist supplier stocked a solid LVL beam to match the depth of the posi joist, it would also reduce the number of multiple ply beams you are using with a softwood solution and improve quality. LVL isn’t as expensive as you may think with timber at the current prices. Great video👍🏻 I’ve just subscribed.
The weight of the joist would be on the hanger as it’s rests against the beam. Face fix hanger would be relying on the screws or nails to hold it
@@Tomherbs yes, that’s exactly what they are designed to do. There are typically light / medium / heavy versions of the face fix hangers, nail spacing and quantity of nails vary depending upon incoming loads. 👍🏻
Beautiful job and a great video Robin 👍
Thank you so much 😀
I tell you what, rob and Andy need to take some fashion tips from young Ed with his spiffy looking duds. Best dressed chippy award goes to the young fella
Thanks mate! 😂👍🏻
I'm sure that they are both devastated not to win this prestigious award, 😂😂
Hi Robin,
Have you used the the “ Squi Jig “ they would attach to your roofing square, they can be approx 35mm long and are a larger version of the stair nobs they are quite expensive and you will find them on google, they come in various colours, just wonder if they are a gimmick or the real deal ?.
I have been at this chippy work for 43 yrs now and if I new half of what you know I would be happy.
Great stuff mate, keep well.
Dermot.
Hope you’ve updated the Risk assessment Potential Hot Works/Magnifying Glass
It's all about coming together nicely 😜
Bueno notches there Robin😁
Awesome Robin 👌 Housing the tops like this is particularly good around stair wells as there is less chance of catching the twist nail heads when cutting back the chipboard to fit your apron capping😎 (plus the capping will sit nice and flat on the joist👊). Proper job 👍
someone is watching robin, mister tall carpenter well done
Nice one Del, loving your channel bro!!!
@@ukconstruction Cheers Robin😎
thats great quality timber. you didnt even notice that you turned on of the tripple upside down when you marked it. if you used the timber we get somtimes you would need cones and seftety tape due to the trip hazard in the floor
Planning for success.👍
Wow! What a difference a tool belt can make! 🤩
Hi robin,
You are right , speed squares ain’t all that , I wish I could afford one of your roofing squares, maybe some day 😩
Hi Dermot, I will try to make my roofing square and app affordable mate!! thanks for commenting, have a good weekend
3.5m standout on the tape. No need to show off😄
Good stuff!
Lovely looking Job at the end EH?? :-)
Huiji was a team mate of kingdong.
Ed has a great teacher. He will become a master following you. I wonder how many builders would go to the extent that you do just to make sure the nails heads remain below the level of the floor boards? Last bit, when you do the 400 on centre do you the go back half the thickness of the timber like the Americans do with their 16" on centre?
Very nice
Can’t believe I watched the whole thing and didn’t get to see the hangers go into the Rebaits 🥺 that would have been very satisfying to watch 😂 what would you do over a steel with the hanger? My loft floor Squeaks over the hangers on the steels?
There is a couple of houses locally to me with the similar engineered joists you have been using Robin. They have not used a timber wall plate at all. The wall plate is just a course of engineers bricks which they sit on like a long pad. They have also been fitted by using a standard block as a spacer between each of the joist sitting on the engineering course, no rim board
I have no idea how they are tying it all together 🤷🏻♂️
Sounds like the wall is going up another storey? Wall plates usually only at the top, ready for the roof...
Great Vedio I really appreciated :)
Robin I have one question for you how we connect the timber flitch beam with the steel beam if you make a vedio on this it is very thankful. If you have information regarding this connection kindly reply me I am very thankful to you :)
Nice work, looks very good.
Thank you very much!
I knew a bloke called Hugh Jampton-Wick. Played rugby with him. When we were in the showers after a match, I figured out where he got his name from.
Hes like the mark botham Trex camp as fuck but utterly brilliant
top draw as always robin :)
lmao, glasses and a magnifying glass, I feel your pain Robin.
Yeah, me too! Damn those pesky mm's for getting smaller every year ;-)
Worst comes to the worst, I'll have to leave my beloved carpentry and go back to laying bricks lol!
I’m following your guidance and using egger protect throughout my Renovation and extension. I didn’t have a router when I put the joists in so I had to router the bottom of the boards to miss the hangers. The glue fills the voids but it’s not a mistake I’ll make again, what a nightmare! The Milwaukee router is great though now I’ve finally got it!
Hey Robin, I know that you are always keen to appeal to our Atlantic cousins and bridge the language gap. Can’t help noticing the new Diamond Back rig. My wife says she loves seeing you in suspenders 😀
Yes this is my new @diamondbacktoolbelts I really have taken to it, I now know just how comfortable suspenders are, my wife is pretty keen on me wearing them too!!!
Great presentation, like your style 👍👍
Great workmanship. If only more construction work was done to such high standards.
I noticed the timber grade was T26? Unusual to see that grade. Normally C24 is specified.
This is from my specialist supplier
The TR26 (TR stands for trussed rafter) is a higher grade than C24 and is specifically used for trussed Rafter and Metal Web joist manufacturers. It is not usually available from timber merchants.
Have you ever thought about fitting out a boat, with your skills it would be the best on the waters!
One day mate, I would like to buy an old military boat, they look awesome and obviously very sea worthy! and then strip it and do a proper job on the interior!!!!
I've been watching your vids for a long time now, and learned so much.
My question is, would you swap all your tools for festool or are there some tools you think are just as equally as good, if not better?
Hi James, I have loads of festool tools and I tend to use them for mainly interior works, there are so many similar quality tools especially the 18v gear and I would happily pick up a Hikoki, Milwaukee, Metabo equivalent circular saw for example as long as the batteries are well charged and the blades are sweet then there is not much between the platforms any more!!!
Nice work Robin. Have you had any problems with the Posi joists. My father had a chippy fit some approx 4.5m long (albeit wrong as he didn't fit the strongback in the right place) and they had an awful lot of bounce even after I retrofitted a couple of strong backs in that floor. All TGV flooring was also glued and screwed? Really liked the look of the joists but they just didn't seem up to the job
Hi Robin. I know this question I'm about to ask is not something you could answer without knowing the loads and so on, but just as an idea let me put it to you, and see what you think. I am thinking about putting a new gable roof over my pre-existing house. its a simple rectangular shaped house but as it happens halfway along the length of one of the external load bearing walls, the wall juts in by 600mm, so that wall will need to be 400mm higher to reach up to support the rafters (the roof pitch is 34 degrees, 8:12 pitch). Does that make sense; if your looking at the gable end front on, and imagine on one side one of the walls juts in closer in towards the centre of the house by 600mm, so that section of wall will need to be 400mm taller to reach up to support the pitch of the roof above. (its true when they say that a picture paints a thousand words). So my thought is, could I use a posi-joist, a 400mm deep pose-joist as a lintel, a kind of beam running along that section of wall to support the rafters running down the gable roof. That section of wall is 6.5m long as it happens, and has two 1.8m wide windows. So that post-joist could act as a lintel all the way along the length of the wall. Its going to be a corrugated metal deck roof, so less than 40kg /m2. It's just when I saw you moving that posi joist about, it occurred to me that this may be a simple answer in dealing with this alteration in wall height, simplifying the structural detail. what do you think Robin. Could it work in principle. thanks for bearing with me once again.
I reckon that you could make a simple ladder frame clad in structural sheathing on the outside, insulated between and maybe clad with structural ply on the inside thus becoming a box beam, this with the correct nailing detail would be super strong and easily pass over your existing windows as these will have their own lintel/ beam beneath this new raised box beam, hope this helps mate!!
@@ukconstruction That makes sense, and like you say, still need the required lintel, so yes, why not just tac up a box beam, fill it with insulation, sheath the outside, and Bobs your Uncle. Thanks mate. Really appreciate it.
I've added a magnifying app to the smarter-than-me-phone to read drawings... but I still carry a flip out pocket magnifier as back up...
I notice (and it’s really a testament how much respect your clients give your trade; especially tech a-depth such as cutting a roof, doors, cabinets, ect.,.) no customer, is in the background staring at you?
Often here in the states someone is eyeing you? I mean I charge fairly as you do but your carpenters seem to hv much more respect there from the public?
Am I wrong?
It's the same here mate, I do everything on a price so the client has no worries!! They can leave me to it knowing what it will cost regardless of duration of my working time etc, thanks for getting in touch mate
@@ukconstruction oh you see the General I Sub out to wants time & material? And here it seems a lot of ppl want that?? (However not my Cabinet jobs).
I was curious I appreciate your time!!
FYI I do not do roofs but I enjoy watching the precision it takes to pull off a nice cut custom roof! Like a massive cabinet on top of the house perfectly arranged to hold together 👊!
@@ukconstruction I guess you have to be on a price, because you're recording some of the time which must add hours some days. Lovely to watch a fellow pro who cares about the quality :-)
excellent video as usual Robin ,quiet audio tho ??, keep them coming
Hugh arrs
was benny hill
never had to use wrap over the top hangers, even with larger spans than in the video. Either UK engineers are to cautious or North American engineers are too lax :)
Its all down to the hangers. The USA hanger manufacturers may be using a heavier gauge steel that does not require the hang over.
I'd be so curious to know what Robin's actual favourite tool brand is as I'm sure he gets free tools from a few companies. Seems he used hitachi before the endorsements. The milwaukee stuff looks good, I've used Makita for 15 years but am considering a switch to milwaukee for the power, especially in the saws. My cordless makita skil saw couldnt cut through butter
I would say what ever he gets given is he’s favourite 😉
Dunno whether the tools and timber are massive or if robin is a dwarf
Sorry if it’s a daft question if you did say in video I might of missed it but could a steel beam be used instead of the 3ply beam, cheers robin 👍
Yes but timber is lighter and easier to fire proof and fix too and probably more cost effective, we design as much steel out of a building as we can
I can’t remember the last time I had to mark face-side, face-edge. Don’t really need it shuttering
Did you get Ed to knock them saw horses up? Also is the diamond back comfy and which one did you go for?
Hi Brian, the next time I do a toolbox type talk for my channel (a new feature coming soon) I will go through me new @diamondbacktoolbelts rig without going to my van I cannot remember all the names of the component parts!!!
@@ukconstruction thanks for the reply, that will be great 👍
Aren’t the screws going to stop the three ply from coming completely together. Or r u driving them in to flush? Sorry I know it’s a dumb question.
Hi Bill, you guessed it correct mate, we drive the screw flush!!
Robin, do engineers specify the British Standard method of using timber toothed connectors with bolts and washers for forming the 3ply joists?
Not for flat beams, we don't see the toothed washers much now, we used too years ago!!
@@ukconstruction Agree, I used them frequently in the late 80’s early 90’s. But screw and torque drill technology have come along way since I last used toothed connectors or “dogs” as we called them.
@@Elfin4 This is an interesting observation. I don't know the reason for sure, but wood, steel and physics haven't changed all that much in the last few decades, so I reckon it's more a practical thing than anything else. Unless you really need the additional strength, you're not going to specify a connector which takes additional time and expense to install. Personally I think helping the beams act as one is much better from a design perspective, but with people always wanting to build faster and cheaper I can see how this might go by the wayside.
FWIW, EC5 (or, as far as I can see, the older BS 5268-2) doesn't have any specific requirements for the use of toothed connectors; just rules for determining the load-carrying capacity, should you need them: "8.10(1) The characteristic load-carrying capacity of connections made using toothed-plate connectors should be taken as the summation of the characteristic load-carrying capacity of the connectors themselves and the connecting bolts"
@@nathan87 Yes I agree. I also think it is because as in this instance both ends of the joists are end bearing. The toothed connectors were predominantly for remedial works for example where a decayed joist end was cut off and a section was bolted on parallel with the original joist. Thanks for joining the discussion.
@@ukconstruction Bloomin' horrible things weren't they? Difficult to get everything spot on and always running out of thread etc. Don't miss them one bit.
I glue everything these days. Once I saw the effects of gluing down flooring chipboard (on rigidity) years ago, I never looked back!
Why not use a chop
saw when cutting?
It's much quicker with a circular saw as I do not have to lift the material, support the material or build support either side of the chopsaw, we do use a chop saw for many jobs where we are doing lots of strait cutting say studwork or noggins or second fix as you see in my channel
@ukconstruction Really enjoy watching your channel as a woodworking hobbyist - speed is something I don't possess. My dad was a carpenter, and he also likes your videos. Thanks so much for making them!
It's worth taking you drawings into a print shop and get them blown up to A0....
Any update on the square Robin? You keep teasing you rascal you!
Do you have any tips to simplify setting out 400/600/X centres… as in, sometimes my brain farts and I feel that I’m not necessarily getting the X/stud the right side of the line. Especially when trying to make it work for plasterboard. I’m not exactly a new chippy but don’t do setting out all the time so wondering if you have any hard and fast rules or helpful tips for making it easier?
Make a marker stick, a bit of batten will do
Just mark it up with what you need and transfer it across 👍
Let’s simplify it. Say for instance you start from a wall stud (standard 95 x 45 ). Hook your tape on and mark 378mm, mark your x to the right or left depending on what side you started. Then mark from the 378mm mark 400mm increments, so when you hook the tape back on the wall stud the stud uprights will be 400mm dead centre of the timber. Same applies for 600mm centres or whatever measurement you need. Hope that helps.
I always mark the second joist location first, measuring from the edge/wall/etc. with your spacing and a cross on the inside. Takes care of the shorter first space. Use a nail to reinforce this mark.
Then from that nail it's plain spacing, mark the measurement and a cross on the inside to indicate the joist.
What do you think of diamond back toolbelts?
I'm loving the comfort and its great on the braces, really forget that I have it on!!
@@ukconstruction I brought the 6” belt and basic suspenders as I have a lot of back problems. So far so good. Thinking about buying pouches but it’s a lot of money.
Did anyone in the building trade find this confusing ? (maybe it was the mic) , couldnt really here what Rob was saying.
Why a three ply beam and not another RSJ?
👍
The clash of the hangers sounds quite painful, or is it just me?
Hi robin, wish I had a bigger van and lots of money then I could get the same tools as you .😩
Whenever I get my timber it’s always like a donkeys hind leg and a good 5mm tolerance 👀😤
31 minutes?
Go on then 😁😁😁😁
any update on the square?
I miss the banter between you and Roger. Are we to believe that branding and ego is getting in the way of 2 old mates? 😞
I believe the plan all along was to give Robins channel a kick-start by appearing on skill builder for a short while.
Hard to understand and the CC is wrong. Spax makes the screws (I'm pretty sure) that he's referring to. They call them "Wirox". It's the new coating. I know HD carries Spax. I don't know about Wirox. I think it's mandatory in GB.
Since you asked: Hu Jia of China - won silver medals in diving at the 2000 Olympic Games in Sydney. Do you do pub quizzes??!
Yes mate!!!
Sometimes Robbie I wonder how you make money being that anal but I’m exactly the same myself it’s a massive burden sometimes but great work mate and I’m still waiting to hear when you’re going to be releasing your roofing square? Thanks :))
Why do you recess the hangers again? haha. Just thought i'd tell you before you get old. You're repeating yourself a bit :-) Probably because of the camera etc , but listen out for people saying " yeah you said" in real life haha
Did I here you let your tape back in without cushioning it with your finger? You little tinker.
Seems to be overbuilt. Engineers tend to make things 10 stronger than needed. It is called safety factor.
Well the engineers need to do this to allow for the varying levels of skill that may be doing the work!!
@@ukconstruction thats a very diplomatic way of saying that they have to allow for clowns to f it up
Talk about over engineered, who is speccing this stuff
Me!!!
👍