What you basically want, is what a torquesensor (druksensor) does. The more you press the pedals, the more power the engine gives. So that's like a full automatic range setting and just like the 25%-50%-75%-100% range. Only then from 0%-100%. Even when your are stopped. As soon as you start cycling, it instantly kicks in the engine. If you like this idea, the cowboy bike has this, or the +2200€ models from Batavus, Giant, Gazelle etc.
If you have an iPhone, it's extremely easy to switch back to US mode by changing your region setting to USA and then switching the region setting on the bike in the VM app. After that, you can switch back you region setting on the phone and the bike will stay in US mode. On Android, you'll have to get a VPN, which is slightly more cumbersome, but still not that complex.
@@karelnoe2419 For Android there's a new 3rd-party app called "Moofer" that allows you to hack your bike in a number of ways, including getting US speeds. They're working on an iPhone version also.
I don't think that the electronics built in is able to manage other power outputs than 250(EU) , 350(US) and 500W(Boost EU or US) . What should be possible is to modify the regulated speeds for each of the assistance modes, but I guess they are defined inside the firmware and thus not available to modify from outside, via an App...
Fully agree Karel with your findings. I made a test drive yesterday on VM S3 and experienced the same issue; You also always have to drive at max speed at assist mode 3 or 4. You can not pedal below the max speed, unless you stop complete pedaling. My wife has a middlemotor e-bike with torque sensor and this bike gives you assist depending on the assist level setting and the pressure on the pedal. You can also drive slowly in max assist mode, as long as you pedal slowly. As soon as you accelerate with your pedals the assist picks up. This works really good and natural and I think this is the only natural way for driving an e-bike. That's why I am now drawn towards the new Veloretti Ace with middle motor and torque sensor! no VanMoof!
I think if the current were limited the assist would be limited. It might generate some heat regulating the current but that shouldn’t be hard to solve in a bike made of aluminum.
Good points Charlie , I agree with you. US mode did give longer range and smoother riding on level 1 & 2. As another viewer commented, I would get the moover app. It works on my android phone , you need to close the vanmoof app if you’re operating it. The app creator is very receptive to suggestions as well. Hope this helps. By the way your videos have been very good , keep on the good work.
At the moment I'm trying to sell the bike just because of this. I've asked vanmoof several times what the purpose is of these settings. Received a mail this morning from a person who finally understands the question and it's going to find out higher up in the chain. Also annoying is, when you ride in 3 or 4 and you have enough speed you don't have to give any effort to speed up. Just move the pedals around with the feeling the chain fell off and you will go slowly faster and faster. I've had the electrified S for a long time and that one was what you would expect from an ebike. It also had the torque measure.
Dit kreeg ik zojuist door van vanmoof: Hi Joop, Om je van een concreet antwoord te voorzien, op de vraag: Waarom stopt de ondersteuning in stand 1&2 bij 8&13Km/h? En velen collega's het antwoord gegeven om jouw rijcomfort te verbeteren zodat jij het oude plezier weer terug zou vinden in het rijden op een VanMoof. De antwoorden bleken niet naar wens. Om toch met een concreet antwoord te komen die niet naar het rijcomfort is gericht maar op het ontwerp en waarom dit is bedacht, is er contact opgenomen met het design team, om de vraag letterlijk te stellen zoals geschreven. Antwoord: Mate van ondersteuning is in vrijwel alle levels gelijk omdat de vrij snel/ hard optrekt naar het snelheidslimiet van het gekozen level. Als alle levels tot 25KM zouden gaan zouden er geen levels hoeven zijn. Dit is het verschil met de S1 minder levels minder verdeling. Er is gekozen de snelheden (max 25KM) per uur ter verdelen in 4 omdat er 4 versnellingen zijn. Waarbij 13KM de helft is en dus de motoraandrijving op dat punt stopt (zelf moet trappen) zodat er een keus is in hoe hard je wilt gaan, en het seintje is dat je dus harder gaat dan 13KM per uur als de motorsupport stopt. Dus wil jij constante motorsupport in level 2 dan blijft deze niet op 13 KM per uur en ga je automatisch harder. Het ligt aan het ontwerp van de fiets. De mate van ondersteuning is dus in alle standen hetzelfde, alleen stopt het bij 8,13,19, 25 Km/h
@@Kampernaut Hi Bertie, here is the english translation. To provide you with a concrete answer to the question: Why does the support stop in position 1 & 2 at 8 & 13Km / h? And many colleagues have given the answer to improve your driving comfort so that you can find the old pleasure back in driving a VanMoof. The answers turned out not to be satisfactory. In order to come up with a concrete answer that is not focused on driving comfort but on the design and why this was conceived, the design team was contacted to literally ask the question as written. Answer: Degree of support is the same in almost all levels because it accelerates fairly quickly / hard to the speed limit of the chosen level. If all levels would go up to 25KM there would be no levels. This is the difference with the S1 less levels less distribution. The speeds (max 25KM) per hour have been chosen to be divided into 4 because there are 4 gears. Where 13KM is half and so the motor drive stops at that point (you have to pedal yourself) so that there is a choice in how fast you want to go, and the signal is that you go faster than 13KM per hour when the motor support stops. So if you want constant motor support in level 2, it will not stay at 13 KM per hour and you will automatically go faster. It depends on the design of the bike. The whole point in this story is; there is no torque measuring, so they had to do something with the 4 levels. There is only 'on' and 'off'.
@@vankooten52 thank you. I still don’t get it. Surely they could run the motor at % of maximum assistance? What happens when you push the right button? Full power irrespective of speed?
Been watching your videos this morning. I stumbled upon the VanMoof as it just looks like a modern regular bike and still has some special features that seem to work. Your valuable updated content is of interest for everybody and especially VanMoof. So thank you very much for that! Pure facts and sharing experience lead to better products and a better community support. There are 2 things which I have a question/comment about. 1 is the electronic shifting. Does it still work if the battery is completely empty or will it go to a certain gear and be stuck in that one? Second one. the grips on the handlebar seem to be very narrow. Swapping them over to thicker ones seems to enhance comfort I would guess ... or am I wrong? Do they use standard size for handlebars and the rest? As you said you are 300km away from the nearest dealer would parts be an issue or can you fix most things with standard stuff? (damn that's 3 questions)
Parts never has been an issue Vanmoof support is second to none. The power assist switches off when there is only 5% juice left to keep the electronics, lights, and shifter going on. If the battery is dead I assume everything is dead too. ill do a 9000 km update soon when the weather is a bit better.
Charlie no, I think Vanmoof failed only on e-shifter. The different speed assistances are working great. Helping to start from a traffic light, assisting to get a certain speed which is hard for some people and then they can maintain the speed with their own effort. Due to regulations what are you asking ain’t gonna happen
Regarding the need to remove some links in your chain, how much of the chain guard did you have to remove to accomplish that? Also, how did you do remove it? I know how to remove the bit at the rear that goes over the top of the sprocket, but I'm unsure how separate the rest of it. I ask because I'd like to clean my chain, but I don't want to break the guard.
I took out 2 screws in the back and a clip that holds the chain guard together. then one can take out the the front half of the chain guar. Not too difficult
I see this matter just the same as you. Assist level 1-3 in EU setting are pretty much useless, therefor I only go in level 4. Being able to have a continuous assist of 25% in level 1, 50% in level 2 and 75% in level 3 would make these levels finally useful. Every ebike I know offers assist levels just like that, and does not cut off at lower speeds. It just does not make sense! VanMoof, do you read this ?
I think it makes sense when you know you're not going to make it home before the battery runs out. If you preserve some power and run it at level 1 then at least you can still get more than just first gear.
That makes all the sese that pedal assist levels give you different power and not different speed. I can't believe pedal assist levels work this way. I just ordered my VanMoof yesterday and watching this video now is making me anxious(I did the test ride on level 4 only). I am 100% agree with your point and it makes sense than each level of assist give you an extra 25% engine power. Top speed is anyway cut on 25 km/h. If that's really the case, then I will be using my bike 100% of the time on assist 4 and so the battery range of this bike is maximum 60km and the level 4 assist is the only useful setting.
Dat is idd beter, ik heb ook een vanmoof s3 maar heb hem niet geupdate. Ik heb ook nog een specialized Levo mtb, deze werkt wel op basis torque fietst erg fijn je kan dit gewoon aanpassen in de app op het percentage ondersteuning wat je wil.
there is a company that makes belt drives for the vanmoof. here is a video about it: th-cam.com/video/Pn9mwfzKLdA/w-d-xo.html . way more durable and smooth than a normal chain. way less maintenance.
What you basically want, is what a torquesensor (druksensor) does. The more you press the pedals, the more power the engine gives.
So that's like a full automatic range setting and just like the 25%-50%-75%-100% range.
Only then from 0%-100%. Even when your are stopped. As soon as you start cycling, it instantly kicks in the engine.
If you like this idea, the cowboy bike has this, or the +2200€ models from Batavus, Giant, Gazelle etc.
Veloretti Ace/Ivy has that type of pedal support that you like to see on a Vanmoof
yeah i have watched a few videos might be my next bike
If you have an iPhone, it's extremely easy to switch back to US mode by changing your region setting to USA and then switching the region setting on the bike in the VM app. After that, you can switch back you region setting on the phone and the bike will stay in US mode. On Android, you'll have to get a VPN, which is slightly more cumbersome, but still not that complex.
i cant do it , or am i missing something ? I changed my iphone to US but cant change anything in the Vanmoof app My app version is 3.8
@@karelnoe2419 For Android there's a new 3rd-party app called "Moofer" that allows you to hack your bike in a number of ways, including getting US speeds. They're working on an iPhone version also.
@@gospelgroupie I know
I don't think that the electronics built in is able to manage other power outputs than 250(EU) , 350(US) and 500W(Boost EU or US) . What should be possible is to modify the regulated speeds for each of the assistance modes, but I guess they are defined inside the firmware and thus not available to modify from outside, via an App...
Fully agree Karel with your findings. I made a test drive yesterday on VM S3 and experienced the same issue; You also always have to drive at max speed at assist mode 3 or 4. You can not pedal below the max speed, unless you stop complete pedaling. My wife has a middlemotor e-bike with torque sensor and this bike gives you assist depending on the assist level setting and the pressure on the pedal. You can also drive slowly in max assist mode, as long as you pedal slowly. As soon as you accelerate with your pedals the assist picks up. This works really good and natural and I think this is the only natural way for driving an e-bike. That's why I am now drawn towards the new Veloretti Ace with middle motor and torque sensor! no VanMoof!
Are you aware of the new VanMoof S5? it comes with a force sensor on the pedals so now you can also drive slowly in max assist mode
I think if the current were limited the assist would be limited. It might generate some heat regulating the current but that shouldn’t be hard to solve in a bike made of aluminum.
Great review. Do you think how much more km this bike can do?
Good points Charlie , I agree with you. US mode did give longer range and smoother riding on level 1 & 2. As another viewer commented, I would get the moover app. It works on my android phone , you need to close the vanmoof app if you’re operating it. The app creator is very receptive to suggestions as well. Hope this helps. By the way your videos have been very good , keep on the good work.
I already use it good app
I keep mine in pedal assist 5, thats 37Km/h
I was convinced that the power levels worked in power and not in speed.. I always ride in Level 4, that´s why i was wrong.
At the moment I'm trying to sell the bike just because of this.
I've asked vanmoof several times what the purpose is of these settings.
Received a mail this morning from a person who finally understands the question and it's going to find out higher up in the chain.
Also annoying is, when you ride in 3 or 4 and you have enough speed you don't have to give any effort to speed up.
Just move the pedals around with the feeling the chain fell off and you will go slowly faster and faster.
I've had the electrified S for a long time and that one was what you would expect from an ebike.
It also had the torque measure.
Dit kreeg ik zojuist door van vanmoof:
Hi Joop,
Om je van een concreet antwoord te voorzien, op de vraag: Waarom stopt de ondersteuning in stand 1&2 bij 8&13Km/h?
En velen collega's het antwoord gegeven om jouw rijcomfort te verbeteren zodat jij het oude plezier weer terug zou vinden in het rijden op een VanMoof. De antwoorden bleken niet naar wens. Om toch met een concreet antwoord te komen die niet naar het rijcomfort is gericht maar op het ontwerp en waarom dit is bedacht, is er contact opgenomen met het design team, om de vraag letterlijk te stellen zoals geschreven.
Antwoord: Mate van ondersteuning is in vrijwel alle levels gelijk omdat de vrij snel/ hard optrekt naar het snelheidslimiet van het gekozen level. Als alle levels tot 25KM zouden gaan zouden er geen levels hoeven zijn. Dit is het verschil met de S1 minder levels minder verdeling.
Er is gekozen de snelheden (max 25KM) per uur ter verdelen in 4 omdat er 4 versnellingen zijn. Waarbij 13KM de helft is en dus de motoraandrijving op dat punt stopt (zelf moet trappen) zodat er een keus is in hoe hard je wilt gaan, en het seintje is dat je dus harder gaat dan 13KM per uur als de motorsupport stopt. Dus wil jij constante motorsupport in level 2 dan blijft deze niet op 13 KM per uur en ga je automatisch harder.
Het ligt aan het ontwerp van de fiets.
De mate van ondersteuning is dus in alle standen hetzelfde, alleen stopt het bij 8,13,19, 25 Km/h
I can’t read the Dutch, but if the English translation given by Google is anything to go by, that design doesn’t make any sense to me.
@@Kampernaut Hi Bertie,
here is the english translation.
To provide you with a concrete answer to the question: Why does the support stop in position 1 & 2 at 8 & 13Km / h?
And many colleagues have given the answer to improve your driving comfort so that you can find the old pleasure back in driving a VanMoof. The answers turned out not to be satisfactory. In order to come up with a concrete answer that is not focused on driving comfort but on the design and why this was conceived, the design team was contacted to literally ask the question as written.
Answer: Degree of support is the same in almost all levels because it accelerates fairly quickly / hard to the speed limit of the chosen level. If all levels would go up to 25KM there would be no levels. This is the difference with the S1 less levels less distribution.
The speeds (max 25KM) per hour have been chosen to be divided into 4 because there are 4 gears. Where 13KM is half and so the motor drive stops at that point (you have to pedal yourself) so that there is a choice in how fast you want to go, and the signal is that you go faster than 13KM per hour when the motor support stops. So if you want constant motor support in level 2, it will not stay at 13 KM per hour and you will automatically go faster.
It depends on the design of the bike.
The whole point in this story is; there is no torque measuring, so they had to do something with the 4 levels.
There is only 'on' and 'off'.
@@vankooten52 thank you. I still don’t get it. Surely they could run the motor at % of maximum assistance? What happens when you push the right button? Full power irrespective of speed?
@@Kampernaut Full power US-level.
Been watching your videos this morning. I stumbled upon the VanMoof as it just looks like a modern regular bike and still has some special features that seem to work. Your valuable updated content is of interest for everybody and especially VanMoof. So thank you very much for that! Pure facts and sharing experience lead to better products and a better community support.
There are 2 things which I have a question/comment about. 1 is the electronic shifting. Does it still work if the battery is completely empty or will it go to a certain gear and be stuck in that one? Second one. the grips on the handlebar seem to be very narrow. Swapping them over to thicker ones seems to enhance comfort I would guess ... or am I wrong? Do they use standard size for handlebars and the rest?
As you said you are 300km away from the nearest dealer would parts be an issue or can you fix most things with standard stuff? (damn that's 3 questions)
Parts never has been an issue Vanmoof support is second to none. The power assist switches off when there is only 5% juice left to keep the electronics, lights, and shifter going on. If the battery is dead I assume everything is dead too. ill do a 9000 km update soon when the weather is a bit better.
Charlie no, I think Vanmoof failed only on e-shifter. The different speed assistances are working great. Helping to start from a traffic light, assisting to get a certain speed which is hard for some people and then they can maintain the speed with their own effort. Due to regulations what are you asking ain’t gonna happen
Regarding the need to remove some links in your chain, how much of the chain guard did you have to remove to accomplish that? Also, how did you do remove it? I know how to remove the bit at the rear that goes over the top of the sprocket, but I'm unsure how separate the rest of it. I ask because I'd like to clean my chain, but I don't want to break the guard.
I took out 2 screws in the back and a clip that holds the chain guard together. then one can take out the the front half of the chain guar. Not too difficult
@@karelnoe2419 Thanks Charlie.
I see this matter just the same as you. Assist level 1-3 in EU setting are pretty much useless, therefor I only go in level 4. Being able to have a continuous assist of 25% in level 1, 50% in level 2 and 75% in level 3 would make these levels finally useful. Every ebike I know offers assist levels just like that, and does not cut off at lower speeds. It just does not make sense! VanMoof, do you read this ?
I already sent the link to Vanmoof customer service
I think it makes sense when you know you're not going to make it home before the battery runs out. If you preserve some power and run it at level 1 then at least you can still get more than just first gear.
That makes all the sese that pedal assist levels give you different power and not different speed. I can't believe pedal assist levels work this way. I just ordered my VanMoof yesterday and watching this video now is making me anxious(I did the test ride on level 4 only). I am 100% agree with your point and it makes sense than each level of assist give you an extra 25% engine power. Top speed is anyway cut on 25 km/h.
If that's really the case, then I will be using my bike 100% of the time on assist 4 and so the battery range of this bike is maximum 60km and the level 4 assist is the only useful setting.
Dat is idd beter, ik heb ook een vanmoof s3 maar heb hem niet geupdate. Ik heb ook nog een specialized Levo mtb, deze werkt wel op basis torque fietst erg fijn je kan dit gewoon aanpassen in de app op het percentage ondersteuning wat je wil.
Hey Charlie. What your looking for is a mid drive motor. The vanmoof is using a front hub drive motor and is limited by that technology.
there is a company that makes belt drives for the vanmoof. here is a video about it: th-cam.com/video/Pn9mwfzKLdA/w-d-xo.html . way more durable and smooth than a normal chain. way less maintenance.
belgium?
Yes I’m Belgian
Make a great point !!