Stress-Free Cycling With Auto-Shift Gears!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- Automatic bike gears...really?! Hank recently purchased a bike for our cheap commuter challenge video over on GCN a month or so ago and completely unbeknown to him it had this wonderful auto-shift dérailleur installed, but how does it even work? Alex is here to explain!
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Would you fit automatic gears to your bike? ⚙
Yes. I've ridden a Rolhoff equipped bike and enjoyed it. Great for cycle touring.
I probably would IF 1) It can be easily retrofitted to an existing bike. 2) It is reliable. 3) The cadence is adjustable. 4) You can select on the fly what high gears not to shift into (particularly important when climbing or towing something).
It would be great if the new systems could keep you at a preset cadence that you’ve said you want to cycle at, automatically changing with feedback from power/speed/cadence etc…..
@@drevo50 Rolhoff has automatic gear switching?
I for one really think this would work great on a 13 speed cassette, as long as it's not a climbing style one, the finer the changes the smoother it could function I think :).
i shall like this video simply for the fact that George listened to the will of the people and made a video about the bike, as requested when we all saw it :)
We listened and you provided 🙌 Can you think of any other bits of tech that we should do a deep dive into? ⚙
@@gcntech how about GT's I-drive?
@@gcntechcan you explain how microwave ovens actually generate the microwaves which heat the food? I think it’s witchcraft
Cheers Alan!
We sold these back in the late 90's at the bike shop I worked at. The ones we had used a front freewheel, the chainring would spin when you weren't pedaling. This allowed the system to to shift when you weren't pedaling. They rode fine around town.
Different bicycle. Columbia bicycles, slowly dying at this point, introduced their version. Single front chain ring and the rear shift system was encased in a bubble to keep it from being damaged. Both were great systems and were amazingly reliable, provided they were properly serviced.
My friend had one . If in low gear biggest rear gear..just pedal fast and would change to higher gear...vice-versa..not too bad....kinda liked it
It's a great bit of cycling history! Did they sell well?
@@gcntech It appears they didn't. Columbia Bicycle Company is no more.
@@jamesmckenzie3532 I don't remember the brand of the bike, but they had the same derailleur system.
I had one of these. They had a slogan. I think it was “the bicycle built for you” but I thought it should be “always in the right gear” because that’s what it did. Whatever speed you went, it put you in the right gear. And because it automatically shifts up, it would kind of encourage you to accept higher gears and go faster. The shifting was not very smooth at all, but it did work as advertised. You would want to anticipate stops and slow down so that it would downshift. But being in the wrong gear after a sudden stop is a problem with any derailleur system. I don’t recall how long it lasted but it did eventually break. It was fun while it lasted, but I eventually moved on.
GCN remembered we asked for an autoshift video thanks for this good to have it explained and wouldn't it be wild to see how someone like SRAM or Shimano could have progressed the concept.
We make content for your guys 🙌 Great to hear you enjoyed it! Do you think this could be the future of cycling tech?
@@gcntech it's probably inevitable.
Sram had the automatix until 2017, a 2speed automatic gear hub. I would love one but can't find it on ebay
@@zedddddfuldepends. Even fully automatic cars eventually progressed instead to have manual gear paddle-shifting.
@@angelobartolomeu5679I'm told that Sturmey Archer are making one now, in addition to their 2 speed kickback hub. Odd thing is that it's not shown on their site, but Sturmey officianados in the UK insist that they've bought it new there recently.
Never heard of this component until this video. However, my A-level technology project was a similar automatic gear system for bikes. My design also had spinning weights but used a linkage instead to move the derailleur. Ultimately it was really cumbersome, just like this video illustrates, I’m amazed someone rode round the world using this. Wow.
Sounds like a A-level project only you could complete Stuart! Would you like to get your hands on this automatic set-up? ⚙
@@gcntech thanks 🙏😃👍
I bought one in the 90s with an ingenious centripetal shifting system. The weights pulled a twisted lever attached to a ring around the outside of the cassette that advanced the chain.
It used a freewheeling front chainring, so I had to transfer the whole kit when I put it on another bike, but it was super reliable.
Much appreciated. I've been waiting for this episode since Your reaction to Hank bringing the bike. Love this content!
Now is relatively easy to think about a system like this electronic, using the sensor for power meter. You could decide what torque you are willing to make and then the gears should shift to adjust. Or just get an E-Bike
Something something CVT
I thought the same thing of just get an e bike then I saw the price of them and quickly reconsidered.
With electronic shifting, plus power and cadence date, it’s only a matter of time until Erg mode comes to IRL riding
I'd say it's high time it came.
Probably the only thing holding automatic shifting back is racing, where it'd become a major controversy.
@@Zirriusz yeah that’s probably true. Maybe they’ll let it develop through the e-bike space then.
It will be very interesting to see if this is the way gears go! Would you be happy to let your bike do the shifting or do you prefer to have the control?
I could actually attempt to program my bike to do Erg mode as it has a CVT and automatic shifting with cadence and power data available. Maybe I'll have a go just for fun.
My knees hurt just seeing this video in my feed. Those shifts are really hard and unexpected with that derailleur. Worked on a few in my time as a mechanic.
Interesting concept! But in reality, not everyone is comfortable at the same cadence and the adjustability looks like it could be rather random! Nonetheless, always great to see tech like this.
That's why I designed mine to change my cadence depending on my power output. With modern electronic shifting this is very doable.
Barry did mention that it's adjustable, so you'd be able to tune it to your preferred cadence.
@@glenni249 yeah, I feel it could result in lots of trial and error. But a great concept
@@JonCannings yeah I imagine it was a pain in the arse to get dialed. Must have spent 90% of the time between gears too considering it wasn't indexed.
@@glenni249 , I've had several through the shop I run. The set up isn't actually that hard to do as long as you don't try to rush it, and once they are set up they seem to hold adjustment pretty well.
finally .... been waiting to geek out to this since Alex spotted the mech on the commuter bike challenge
I borrowed one of these bikes for a senior project in high school. The technology is impressively elegant, even if it didn’t ride too smoothly at times. I like the simple mechanical ingenuity of it.
A few years later, in 2008, Shimano came out with the Coasting system, which combined a dynamo front hub with electronics and a 3 speed rear hub to make possibly the first (only?) electronically-controlled automatic bike. The launch was coordinated with Trek and several other brands to put multiple Coasting bikes on the market at once. The program ultimately folded just a couple years later, but that would be a fun bike to get your hands on!
I have an 80s road bike with worn friction shifters and I swear it becomes automatic on uphills… but in the wrong way.
I had a chance to repair one of these bikes a couple of years back. Still in really decent shape all things considered. An incredible piece of kit, Ive never seen anything like it.
It's one of a kind that's for sure! How was it work on? 👀
This is soooo sick and I’ve never even heard of it!
CSA AutoBike had a freewheel system in the crankset so when you stop pedaling it'll start shifting down to the lowest gear before you even stopped. And instead of the weight on the side of the derailleur it used weights that slid along the spokes attached to a disc that would move the mech inboard n outboard. It appeared you could use ANY rear mech, if memory serves me correctly. No rubber belt to degrade over time or get caught in something to rip it.
Another top job Adam ☺
Thanks Alex...and crew...Disraeli Gears.....Cream album ? and pretty cool idea..., eh ?
The 80s and 90s were the best times to be alive!
And this video proves that!
Never look back at the best times, look forward to the present moment as the best times." I'm sure people were living their best moments back then as they are today as you and I should be.
This should be re-assessed, additional research and development for it’s modernization. This is such a cool idea from wayback.
Are auto gears the future?
@@gcntech It's not the future, but it's one of the best alternatives.
I bought mine off Facebook for $30 for a motorized bike project, and I thought it was just missing a gear selector and cable until I looked at the derailleur. But I don't know how I feel about not being able to control what gear I'm in, but it's so cool I'll let it slide.
I have a question, is Hank able to ride the route of a mega Tour de France mountain stage from the era that this system was invented in, using this bike?
Is he able...? Well, there is only one way to find out 😉
@@gcntechhe did choose the bike, it’s only fair that he should go on a mega ride with it perhaps the North Coast 500? Or JOGLE (the correct way, everyone knows it’s downhill from north to south.)
I remember seeing infomercials for this bike when I was a kid over here in the US. The commercials always showed elderly people riding them.. at least I think so, my memory may be playing tricks on me.
Maybe adults (30's, 40's) looked elderly to you at that time 😅
@@lomicwindThat is probably the case. 😂😂
Some other shifting systems of the past that you guys should look into for a future video are the front freewheeling systems, and the different positron shimano shifting that was early index shifting found on lower level bikes.
Finally, this vid! I thought you guys might forget about it…
Finally, it's here!!
That's cool, I like that it works sustainably without dependency on battery charging/electrical components.
Well done. Very interesting
I remember that infomercial! omg throwback
I remember the Browning Smartshift system from 30 years ago.
This unlocked a memory in the back of my brain. I forgot these existed i rode one when i was in jr high it was crazy.
Great video, but please tell Hank to wash his bike for the close ups!
Cyclists do not have constant power like a car engine. The peak power for one second load is very high. For extremely long distances like Paris-Brest-Paris, the performance is relatively low. You would also need a power meter and a heart rate monitor as well as the user's performance data so that the computer can specify optimal switching points.
Sort of indexing with something like slight indents like in the Shimano Positron, but way lighter would've probably been ideal for the system to stay in gear on those odd rpm's. Then add an Shimano FFS -system in the mix and no worries about pedaling. That would've also lightened the amount of rotating mass at the rear wheel. Then beef up the RD construction a bit, add a sort of casing for protection from grime and you would have a modern day auto city/trekking bike with decent quality.
Being waiting for it since Alex teased about doing a video on it. Wonderful walk through of the tech.
i actually have this exact bike its really good for wheelies and i ride it over my other ones. really smooth
I love the '80s retro style music for a bike from the '00s
You have to admire the ambition and gumption. And from such a while back. As with cars though, manual suits me better.
I just realized that we could relatively easily add a mW level generator to a rear derailleur. I don't exactly know what we can do with it, but replacing the tension wire with electric cables is an option. Lighter, and more reliable. The only problem is too make sure the generator is perfectly isolated. I guess not the most difficult thing with a mW level generator.
Great to see the explanation of how this works - I thought I knew a bit about old bike tech but when this came up in the Commuter Challenge video I'd never heard of it!
It's a shame it wasn't developed/ refined as I can't help thinking it would work better/ be less intrusive with modern 11sp systems and their correspondingly smaller steps. But as somebody else has said, it could probably be done today with electronic shifting & torque sensors. I like stuff that just works with belts & wheels & basic physics though :-)
It will be interesting to see if this tech re-surfaces with modern parts! Do you think there would be a market for automatic gears? Could be a great on commuter!
@@gcntech well I don't think I would have a use for them personally but I've met plenty of people who claim they "don't understand gears" and if it's a choice between this and a NuVinci hub, well, this is about 2kg lighter!
Interesting tech! Thanks for the 5 minutes video, no time wasted :)
Clever system :) I always envisioned a system where the tension on the chain (or lack thereof) would be translated to the derailer. If the chain is in motion, with a certain positive or negative tension, a switch would flick the derailer to the next best gear.
Someone tried to market an automatic chainset in the 80s. A 1x set up but the chainring wasn’t continuous and made of segments of 6-10 teeth (I think). The gap between each segment increased/decreased depending on load? speed? I don’t know - I guess that’s why it never got beyond the marketing/prototype stage. 🤷🏻♂️
I deleted one of these years back off a garage sale find for a friend. Found a 6sp Grip Shift shifter and some clamp on cable stops, she road it for years afterwards.
They just have to re-do it. Make it lighter with carbon here and there. Make it electronic and thus more precise . . . and BOOM, a new industry toy💥💯!
Is this where the industry is heading 👀
we want to see you ride it!
There's another "auto shift" setup I've seen. Similar concept but it's got 3 weights that are triangulated on the rear wheel and they slide up and down the spokes and push against a plate that in turn push the pre-tensioned rear mech down the cassette.
I remember a paid program for the Autobike. It had these weights attached to the spokes. As the rider went faster, the weights went outward, shifting into a higher gear. They came back in at lower speeds shifting into a lower gear. It made starting from a stop easier. I'd say these are bikes made for non bikers.
Take a look at SRAM Automatix next!
Might be worth a modern day look at this system. Throw some modern day R&D at it new materials a tweek here a tweek there ... who knows where it could end
Now show us hybrid drive trains with internal and external shifting, e.g. SRAM DualDrive
I've got a quick fix for slowing down while coasting and starting from a full stop. The freewheel mechanism should be not in a hub, but in a front sprocket like on trials bikes 😊
I guess a more modern approach to this would be way more software dependent and electronic. So say you have an app that you put a target RPM or RPM range on and whenever you go above or below it either shifts up or down depending on speed and such, would obviously have to be very advanced electronics, but would be cool to see and try.
That’s as smooth as the Apollo Hyperglide system
I've never heard of this system.
I'd like to see how the guys react to the variety of 2 wheel drive systems that have popped up over the years. The one that requires the rider to pump the handlebars was an "idea" 😂
our local as-seen-on-tv shopping sold that bike. ah yes. memories.
Ever since that challenge with hank been waiting for this video
Certainly a fun concept, and I do wonder if it would last a lot longer than normal cable actuated gears without maintenance.
That said, riding over twenty thousand miles on it, with it constantly chattering away when I'm not quite riding at the right speed...my idea of hell!
Yep, better off with a team car carrying 8 bikes.
I did find it interesting!!! very fun!!
Great video . Give me more of this stuff
This is so cool. I miss seeing innovation like this.
An electronic version (via a motor actuated cage), sensing the wheel speed via an encoder, can be programmed to shift gears with index at adjustable sensitivity.
However this just feel like re-inventing DI2 or whatever electronic shifter technology we have right now. Although you won't need that thing on the handlebar.
I found one of these and fitted it to an old 120mm old frame. This called for a bit of adapting as it must have been designed for at least 126mm old dropouts. So I only had 5 speeds.
I found it unsatisfactory in that I had to pedal quite fast (90 plus rpm) to change up and slowly (30ish rpm) to change down. This latter meant that I lost all momentum at the beginning of a climb. I did my best to reduce friction in the system in order to reduce the cadence differential, but nothing seemed to improve it. Another factor contributing to my disappointment was that, when changing down, 3, 2 and 1 all came at once. On the way up it was surprisingly stable in each gear, the derailleur seeming to find the ideal position for silent progress.
That's about all I can say. By the way, I do not believe my modifications contributed to the problem(s) I experienced, which were minor mounting tweeks which did not affect the mechanism or alignment.
If anybody has advice or suggestions I would be interested.
Is that Simon at 3:12 ?
Nah, look at the ankles!
Nowadays it could be implemented with AI and di2 in a smarter way ,why hasn t it been done right now🖐️
@@pramagetable What, Simon? You don't need that level of sophistication to implement a Simon. An early BBC microcomputer and a Sturmey-Archer 3-speed should easily suffice!
Enviolo has a stepless automatic hub gear system
OMG I remember those being advertised!
Quite cool to see
You made the early 2000s look like the 80s 😂
Someone brought one of these bikes to the local community bike repair event and let me ride it. I though it was really interesting, but you definitely need to think about starting out from a quick stop.
If you compare it to modern di2 derailleurs and shifters. Compare it to same period derailleur and shifters and it's way lighter then make it from carbon, titanium and aluminium and it start looking like a really good option. I'm sure we could engineer that these days to work better and work with 10/11 gears.
More proof we are being had. Such innovation
I rode one of these for a summer when I was younger. The chain dropped all the time, it was pretty frustrating
That sounds like it would be annoying! Did you ever get it to work 100%?
Nope, never!
I like how the company named itself after a Cream album which in turn was named after a malapropism of "derailleur gears".
I remember seeing these ads (actually I think they were infomercials) back in the day. I always wondered how many they sold. Never ever seen one on the road or in a shop. . .
It seems like the headquarters for this company is right down the street from me, next to heavy seas beer. I'll swing by and see if they're open.
Very interesting Alex
And the bike?
Would love to see this with a coaster brake
Great whimsical little episode 👍
Very cool find. First time I have heard of it. Great video
I really thought we were going to see this bodged I to a modern bike and not just a history lesson. Come on, bodge up, this is tech and we want to see you teching things!
That is a whole other video! This BIG question... what bike should we fit this to? 🤔
@@gcntechSome top of the line race bike XD
I feel like we have Variable transmissions in several formats now that accomplish the same thing. What about that internal hub one with the pully belt that they use on vespas for a governor? Or those drive shaft bikes with the spring loaded plunger shifter thing that is controlled by a weight, too?
#That's GENIUS!!! Hope they / someone continue that tech? Make it universal? Lighter while still durable? 🤔
Great bike!
I remember there was an old system like this that worked by weights on the spokes or something.
I'm old enough to remember the generator/headlights of the late 70's and early 80's. never needed a battery change, just flip the lever to make contact with the front wheel and you had light.
Bottle dynamos are a lot older than that, and still sold today.
I would like a bit of manual control over the amount of effort I'd like to put in. On the otherhand it looks like it will change down before stopping as long as you pedal. I run a 4 speed on my lovely 1946 Lenton sports which I can change gear ready to go when I have stopped.
I want a modern version of this, for an 8 speed commuter Bike. I want one badly!
It also works nicely with the Nexus 5 or Alfine 8 or 11 speed Di2, but unfortunately only in combo with an ebike motor.
I'd love this older one for the very clean cockpit it promises. That's what I'd be after... just two cables for brakes. And no electronix.
A modern version could be the perfect city commuter! 👀
I do love the idea of automatic gears but I'm not convinced they'll ever really have a place on road bikes. That said, you should definitely see if you can fit this to a modern road bike and see how/if it would work on it!
Oh, and make sure you clean it before you do, that closeup had me reaching for my brush and cleaner bottle!
I use an sram automatix hub for my winter bike. Only 2 gears but enough for the city.
That is ingenious !
I work as a bike mechanic at a co-op. We work on these once and a while. They're garbage, all stamped steel and plastic, when they're new. By the time I see them they've been abused for years and are rarely salvageable.
you know it would be interesting to see if you can make the bike lighter or switching the auto-shifter onto another bike that is full carbon. I would be interested to see if human or Manual Shifter vs Auto Shifter on one bike.
That's amazing :)
today may have headunits, power, kandance and so on all i a headunit, how big task can it be to let the heardunit control the gearshifting and even know when to go lower gear and starting from a stand....
would not be automatic, but very intiiligent semi-automic
What a great piece of engineering! Never heard of it but wish someone would modernise it for todays leasure cycling market. I think it would sell. Thanks for explaining it so well Alex. More experimental stuff like this would be interesting.
It's insane how fast bike tech changes! I thought for sure this technology was from the 1980's, then you said mid 2000's 😳
The bike might have been built in the 00s but they've been making that rear derailleur since the 80s.
I remember seeing the infomercials for this bike/shifting system back in the day and wondering how it actually worked.
This with nuvinci hub🤔 perfect combo just a bit weighty
if a modernized version (that is indexed, lighter weight, gear shift control not dependent of sprocket rotation but on wheel rotation) of this tech comes, even if its just up to 8 speed....I might just get some for my touring bikes....