Does it obviate the need for the stator to be pinned or the mobo to be replaced, though? Not that I’ve any interest in either to be fair. Both wheels have had a somewhat difficult birth, arguably the S22 more so. The Master has plenty of upsides, matched by its disadvantages. The Hero is too complicated to disassemble for changing tyres. There are better options available, and sunk investment makes for a poor substitute for better alternatives. Just my tup’worth.
Thank you so much for going through it, plus the math. It's also a bonus that you talked about it from the "western frame" pov. This was really helpful!
The top brackets you will have to turn in reverse. Then the firewood up the area you would have to use thread tight tape. To make sure the compressor doesn't seek out. Then pump it up and you should have any problems. You can cut a little plastic inserts between the bracket Bolts so the suspension don't shake around. I have done it and it works perfectly without shaking or anything I weigh 230 lb
appreciate the explanation - I was also formulating a question about the linkage sold at Torque Pads before completing the video...😂 - glad I kept watching before asking. Helpful
thanks for your explanation, now I finally understand why my new Begode master wheel sucks at jumping, it is worse than my Kingsong S18, so I think I am back to Hardware mode, make a new suspension linkages to my Begode Master.
I'm tempted to get a Master V4 because of their really great price. They are being advertised with "new suspension geometry" or "updated suspension." Have you tested the suspension on the Master V4, or, which version of the wheel is it that you are looking at the suspension for in this video?
I still feel the Master is an excellent wheel, especially the V4 Master. But I still do not like their stock Begode suspension. I just bought a new Blitz and the first thing I did was replace the suspension linkage and shock. I am not tracking all the folks who are making and selling various "X-link" style suspensions, but all of them are pretty good and can be bought for $300 to $600 with a replacement shock. With the suspension upgraded a V4 Master would be an excellent trail wheel for just about anyone.
Here’s a link to the video I helped Kingsong make, that explained the non-linear linkage design of the S18. It’s the reason why their design works so well. the ratio varies from 2.7:1 to 1:1, so for greater shock travel the suspension becomes stiffer. So it has good small bump sensitivity, as well as good big bump absorption ability without bottoming out. th-cam.com/video/MP7l9KvP-Lg/w-d-xo.html
Wow, that was an awesome and simple explanation! Thank you.
ปีที่แล้ว +1
Very nice explanation. But I wonder where you got 35mm potential travel for the shock? 190 x 35? As it can physically move much more than 35mm. Also, when I measured travel I got 70mm wheel travel = 24mm shock. Still not good. As a "bandaid" I designed a volume reducer for the stock shock. Still does not make it a good shock, but Soooo much cheaper than Kuba links and new high class shock.
Good point. When I was fiddling with it I was only able to compress mine 35mm. After reading this I tried again and got about 40mm before I hit the internal bump stop.
The link to the CAD files seems to be cut off, could you edit with the correct link? Also very nice video going into the deeper details of suspension ratios!
It seems the bad geometry is especially noticeable with heavier riders but not for a lighter 150lb one. The weight of the rider is the most important variable when setting up a better than stock suspension and maybe lighter riders would require only a coil shock change to achieve similar results requiring a geometry change for heavier riders?
What do you reckon of the Begode T4 suspension? From my image references, the geometry looks basically the same, maybe there are slight differences because people have been saying that it doesn’t bottom out as easily but I haven’t been able to find a direct comparison.
I've not yet torn my T4 apart to check it's ratios, but I really like it. I don't really even know if uses the same linkage as the Master or not. But my T4 is a LOT of fun on the trails!
Not to worry, the other main competitors in the Uwheel world are fast clueing in to fancy products. They DO care about maintenance, waterproofing etc. Begode(Gotway) won't be around in 5 years. All those pro Begode TH-cam influences same.
I would have liked to see the geometry on the bike too just for a visual reference. There are a lot of different bike frame designs to utilize the shock differently. not that your info is incorrect, I just like to see the frame design too
Generally, despite differences in the mounting positions of shocks and the geometry round them (rocker links vs rhe chainstays driving the shock vs co or opposed links etc. Etc.), the leverage ratio will be in the same ballpark, as they're designed to all use the shocks available to the consumer
Unfortunately, to buy the Torque Pads suspension linkage now on their website, I'd have to spend $400 Cdn before shipping! And then, who knows if there would be duties, brokerage fees, etc. tacked on. I'll wait until someone in North America fabricates a similar set up at a much cheaper cost thank you.
Hope that will happen soon, had to jump through hoops with my bank to not get it blocked to pay for my order from Poland when i got my grizzla system. Still be 600 bucks
So if I understood correctly: The stock suspension geometry is dumb, but salvageable. Just by replacing the stock shock with a shock with twice the travel makes it perform much better?
I hear you. Then again, when I had a high performance motocross bike, I paid more for a good one. I would venture almost half the cost of the motorcycle was the cost of the suspension. In performance sports, good suspension is historically expensive. I suspect that we could have a correct suspension using the stock shock if they changed the linkage. That would functionally cost Begode nothing. However, I also think the "top 1% riders" would find real value in paying $300 - $700 for a true high performance shock, and maybe paying a little more for some professional assistance setting it. What do you think?
@@noelleonard2498 It's GotwayBegode. Their entire brand is about being cheap and low quality, but also fast and dangerous. It wouldn't be fitting for them to make an expensive high detail suspension.
Yep, at best it’s putting lipstick on a (reasonably attractive) pig, given all the other details where poor execution and material choice which Begode are now infamous for are considered. Great conceptually, but appallingly realised in production. That’s just what happens though when they try to make it affordable to the many, fundamental corners such as the suspension (and waterproofing) get cut. Great potential, stymied somewhat.
Yesterday begode published files to update your linkage. Haven’t looked at it yet. Did a deepdive myself is the suspension setup, you explained it very well. Underneath the link to some begode update drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-7Fv4bge8eDnlygpQ6PHLKdKVuh7EnC5
Thank you for this explanation. It completely answers why my master suspension feels so inferior to my S22.
Does it obviate the need for the stator to be pinned or the mobo to be replaced, though? Not that I’ve any interest in either to be fair. Both wheels have had a somewhat difficult birth, arguably the S22 more so. The Master has plenty of upsides, matched by its disadvantages. The Hero is too complicated to disassemble for changing tyres. There are better options available, and sunk investment makes for a poor substitute for better alternatives. Just my tup’worth.
Thank you so much for going through it, plus the math. It's also a bonus that you talked about it from the "western frame" pov. This was really helpful!
Very intuitive observation. Congratulations!!!
This is NEEDED!! Great job on this video man, keep it up ^^
The top brackets you will have to turn in reverse. Then the firewood up the area you would have to use thread tight tape. To make sure the compressor doesn't seek out. Then pump it up and you should have any problems. You can cut a little plastic inserts between the bracket Bolts so the suspension don't shake around. I have done it and it works perfectly without shaking or anything I weigh 230 lb
Thank you for this explanation. I really need it, now everything is so clear. Thank you bro
Thank you, it helped me to understand my issue with wheel and you educated me on suspension in general. Cheers.
appreciate the explanation - I was also formulating a question about the linkage sold at Torque Pads before completing the video...😂 - glad I kept watching before asking. Helpful
I just wish you had what you were talking about so you could display the solution
thanks for your explanation, now I finally understand why my new Begode master wheel sucks at jumping, it is worse than my Kingsong S18, so I think I am back to Hardware mode, make a new suspension linkages to my Begode Master.
I'm tempted to get a Master V4 because of their really great price. They are being advertised with "new suspension geometry" or "updated suspension."
Have you tested the suspension on the Master V4, or, which version of the wheel is it that you are looking at the suspension for in this video?
I still feel the Master is an excellent wheel, especially the V4 Master. But I still do not like their stock Begode suspension. I just bought a new Blitz and the first thing I did was replace the suspension linkage and shock. I am not tracking all the folks who are making and selling various "X-link" style suspensions, but all of them are pretty good and can be bought for $300 to $600 with a replacement shock. With the suspension upgraded a V4 Master would be an excellent trail wheel for just about anyone.
Hi Steven. This was very helpful. If the Master uses the Kuba linkage, would the suspension be good enough to use as a wheel for jumping like Shibby?
Combined with the right shock & mad skills, yes.
Here’s a link to the video I helped Kingsong make, that explained the non-linear linkage design of the S18. It’s the reason why their design works so well. the ratio varies from 2.7:1 to 1:1, so for greater shock travel the suspension becomes stiffer. So it has good small bump sensitivity, as well as good big bump absorption ability without bottoming out. th-cam.com/video/MP7l9KvP-Lg/w-d-xo.html
Wow, that was an awesome and simple explanation! Thank you.
Very nice explanation.
But I wonder where you got 35mm potential travel for the shock? 190 x 35?
As it can physically move much more than 35mm.
Also, when I measured travel I got 70mm wheel travel = 24mm shock.
Still not good.
As a "bandaid" I designed a volume reducer for the stock shock. Still does not make it a good shock, but Soooo much cheaper than Kuba links and new high class shock.
Good point. When I was fiddling with it I was only able to compress mine 35mm. After reading this I tried again and got about 40mm before I hit the internal bump stop.
That is so informative, thank you very much!
The link to the CAD files seems to be cut off, could you edit with the correct link? Also very nice video going into the deeper details of suspension ratios!
IT is working for me?
drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-7Fv4bge8eDnlygpQ6PHLKdKVuh7EnC5
They wont show you that..
It seems the bad geometry is especially noticeable with heavier riders but not for a lighter 150lb one. The weight of the rider is the most important variable when setting up a better than stock suspension and maybe lighter riders would require only a coil shock change to achieve similar results requiring a geometry change for heavier riders?
Hi, could you look into Begode Hero suspension geometry too?
What do you reckon of the Begode T4 suspension? From my image references, the geometry looks basically the same, maybe there are slight differences because people have been saying that it doesn’t bottom out as easily but I haven’t been able to find a direct comparison.
I've not yet torn my T4 apart to check it's ratios, but I really like it. I don't really even know if uses the same linkage as the Master or not. But my T4 is a LOT of fun on the trails!
@@stevenmichaelis aha awesome, I’ve got my T4 coming soon in a few weeks so really looking forward to that😆
👊👊👊👊
Not to worry, the other main competitors in the Uwheel world are fast clueing in to fancy products. They DO care about maintenance, waterproofing etc. Begode(Gotway) won't be around in 5 years. All those pro Begode TH-cam influences same.
I actually love the Begode products. I'm going through all this effort because I care so much.
Is anyone selling better linkages for the T4 and master?
I would have liked to see the geometry on the bike too just for a visual reference. There are a lot of different bike frame designs to utilize the shock differently. not that your info is incorrect, I just like to see the frame design too
You can Google a Begode Master and there are lots of photos available. I'm sorry I didn't include any.
Generally, despite differences in the mounting positions of shocks and the geometry round them (rocker links vs rhe chainstays driving the shock vs co or opposed links etc. Etc.), the leverage ratio will be in the same ballpark, as they're designed to all use the shocks available to the consumer
Unfortunately, to buy the Torque Pads suspension linkage now on their website, I'd have to spend $400 Cdn before shipping! And then, who knows if there would be duties, brokerage fees, etc. tacked on.
I'll wait until someone in North America fabricates a similar set up at a much cheaper cost thank you.
Hope that will happen soon, had to jump through hoops with my bank to not get it blocked to pay for my order from Poland when i got my grizzla system. Still be 600 bucks
Don’t hold your breath meantime….
Very insightful, thank you for the honest assessment
So if I understood correctly: The stock suspension geometry is dumb, but salvageable. Just by replacing the stock shock with a shock with twice the travel makes it perform much better?
That is incorrect. The suspension linkages need to be replaced it completely reworked (and a new shock) to have a correctly functioning suspension.
Why is this video upright?
My weight is on the front wheel of my unicycle
You will have to flip it upside down in order to get the right response.
Huh?
No.
I guess all the euc companies need to consult a suspension company...they don't have the know how to do the job correctly...
You need an affiliate link because you are selling for them
I don't see in what world you would come to that conclusion as you actually have to search
So another 500 bucks at least unfortunately. Ridiculous that they didn't just make it right.
I hear you. Then again, when I had a high performance motocross bike, I paid more for a good one. I would venture almost half the cost of the motorcycle was the cost of the suspension. In performance sports, good suspension is historically expensive. I suspect that we could have a correct suspension using the stock shock if they changed the linkage. That would functionally cost Begode nothing. However, I also think the "top 1% riders" would find real value in paying $300 - $700 for a true high performance shock, and maybe paying a little more for some professional assistance setting it. What do you think?
@@stevenmichaelis begode should send us the properly designed linkage.
@@noelleonard2498 It's GotwayBegode. Their entire brand is about being cheap and low quality, but also fast and dangerous. It wouldn't be fitting for them to make an expensive high detail suspension.
Yep, at best it’s putting lipstick on a (reasonably attractive) pig, given all the other details where poor execution and material choice which Begode are now infamous for are considered. Great conceptually, but appallingly realised in production. That’s just what happens though when they try to make it affordable to the many, fundamental corners such as the suspension (and waterproofing) get cut. Great potential, stymied somewhat.
@@4nlimited3dition_4n3d designing a leverage ratio to work on the shock you supply costs effectively nothing.
There is one guy on youtube the is foreign that will show you that.. i saw it and it work's. You wouldn't have to buy anything.
Yesterday begode published files to update your linkage.
Haven’t looked at it yet.
Did a deepdive myself is the suspension setup, you explained it very well.
Underneath the link to some begode update
drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-7Fv4bge8eDnlygpQ6PHLKdKVuh7EnC5