Darnold has made me a “believer” to the point I think KO could accomplish similar results with nearly any above average QB available. Darnold has limitations and the roster around him should get plenty of credit. If he gets paid like the 5-10th best QB in the league on like a three year deal they can walk away from the next couple years I’m not mad at all though. 💜💛
The 2025 franchise tag for QB is estimated at $41m - so that's pretty much the ceiling. Kwesi can negotiate down from there because anything that Sam wants will cost some discount, otherwise Kwesi can just go, sorry I'm tagging you for $41m and will trade you if I want. Kwesi has all the leverage. Sam wants to stay. The team wants him to stay. It's in his best long term interests to stay and prove he's not a one year wonder. I'd be surprised if we didn't see a pretty team friendly 2-3 year deal.
I think this “quarterback whisperer” talk has gone overboard. At some point you have to give the player credit. I’m starting to wonder if it’s actually Sam that has done more for KOCs reputation than the other way round. Darnold is a physically gifted QB. He has impressive arm strength & pocket mobility that Cousins & many other NFL QBs lack. He can throw on the run laterally or vertically. He was taken 3rd in the draft for a reason. He was only 20 yrs old when he came into the league so he’s still young. He wasn’t prepared to start bang out of college. His biggest weaknesses were teachable things…decision making, discipline, don’t force the ball into tight coverage, etc. This isn’t a plug & play situation. Not many qbs have his skill set or physical gifts (he was a prospective linebacker at one point). The Vikings were picked by virtually all prognosticators to finish bottom of the NFC North with between 4-6 wins. All these pundits knew who the coach & skill position players are on this team. The main reason is #14.
Darnold was 8-9 as the starter in Carolina and would have led them to the playoffs if not for an absolutely horrible DB performance by a Carolina guy who got burned by 3 easy TD passes. Carolina has struggled to win any game in the past few years with other QB’s.
Boonie just wants to hand everybody millions of dollars. Sam and Ben Johnson would get 500 million bucks of Boone was a gm 😂. Love the show. It's the best
39:25 Holy shite! Sirles, your (L) ring finger looks like it's at a 45° angle. Absolutely _loved_ the discussion on QB/OL gifts. The love Sirles has for Phillip Rivers just oozes out of every pore, LOL. Speaking of the 2017 season, I just can't envision Nick Easton or Danny Isidora duck hunting with a Keenum shotgun!😂 *Q for both: If OL guys get gifts from their QBs and RBs, what do the defensive players get?? Do gifts, if any, go to any captains on defense?* I need to hear the Boone story he refused to tell about a QB gifting nothing. I conspicuously noticed he didn't say a word about Kaepernick.🤔
Love me some Phil Mackey, I'm a stan for sure. But Jeremiah taking the helm just works. QB controversy in the OLine committee??? Who's the Rhino going to side with?
They should sign Sam for 3 more years just like JJ starts having Sam is a Bonus he would be the best Substitute QB in the league and he has already proven his worth I hope they see the long term outlook Sam is a great passer and he still has a lot to do contribute...Merry X-mas !!!! SKOL !!!
Y'all are great - funny, informative, enthusiastic - you've got it all. I like that you can give the "been there" perspective, but are clearly just football fans first and foremost. Thanks a bunch. Side note: I became a Vikings fan in 1969, as a kid, so I have suffered a LOT. Do y'all think they really have a legit shot against the other top teams in the league (Phi, Det, Buf, Bal, KC, etc.)? Thanks again.
If Sam keeps playing this well the only reason to run with JJ instead of Sam is if they really believe he can win a SB before his rookie contract is up.
Im 100% with Jeremiah. Tag and prove it. 1 year isnt enough for me to say he is 100% this guy! But 2 then yes he needs to be kept. The only problem with that he will get way more expensive.
Tag costs $41m all against the 2025 salary cap, so it sucks up most of the space for FAs, and means Sam must be traded before the 10 week deadline or Kwesi loses all rights, so it hands the leverage over to all potential trade partners. A short 2-3 year extension will likely cost less per year, will greatly reduce the 2025 cap hit, and will give Kwesi a much bigger trade window, so that he can trade Sam when the situation is most advantageous. If Sam proves it his trade value will likely double, and so will his new deal The tag should be the last resort - but Sam wants to stay, it's in his interest to continue working with KOC, and the team wants him to stay.
I think it’s probable that with Darnold’s NFL experience ( being drafted at 20!), he will understand the advantages of having enough cap space for an elite Oline and defense. Maybe players will begin to assess their choices differently when they realize you can be Tom Brady or Kirk Cousins. You can make as much as you can from your team at its ( and your) detriment. Do you want a career where you take up a quarter of the cap space on one or two players who can’t win enough in the NFL on their own to get your team above “good”. What a different world when you have money to fill needs for your team to truly compete. I trust our management to make the right decision for our team with vastly more information about our players than we have. But I am not ready to go back to overpaying a QB again.
@@pamelajones1083 I think your Tom Brady comparison is very astute. He took a reasonable deal at Tampa so the team could develop around him. Kirk took top dollar and has now constrained two rosters. A short extension gives Sam, KOC and Kwesi options. It's a win all round. I'd say it's inevitable. I'm thinking 2 years $60-70m, but I could see a 3 year deal with an easy out. I'm intrigued waiting to see what Kwesi comes up with. It's also exciting to think about a future draft with multiple 1st and 2nd round picks after Sam has been traded! sKOL!
Yes but look at all the qbs that are good out there and what they are making. Teams make it work when you have talent. They got one hell of a bargain this year with him. He deserves a raise. When Jones made 40 million and got cut that's pathetic.
You'd be a fool to let Sam go.. I think he's different than cousins too. Darnold isn't an idiot. He knows this fit is perfect and MN has money... They will pay him and not as much as he could get somewhere else (where he could potentially suck like Cousins) Cousins failing in Atlanta will inspire Darnold to stay in MN for what MN gives him and they will pay him. He deserves it. I want at least 2-3 more years of Darnold if this is the kind of play we are going to get. JJ is totally unproven at this level and can sit and learn like many other future great QB's did.
Vikings for sure are tagging Sam. There is no way they are going to compete in the open market. They will take all the picks in a trade and if no one bites, they keep him one more year for around 45m. Only reason to sign a different deal is to structure a cap friendly multi-year contract.
You just gave one of the main reasons for a multi year deal - cheaper overall, significantly reduces the 2025 cap hit, and a much bigger trade window gives Kwesi much better leverage over potential trade partners.
I've always believed that everything starts in the trenches and the way you talk about how you plan, the grading and train for you next opponent really confirms how important the line is.
Imagine Darnold having a whole off-season with KOC and Josh McCown to really dial it in . I'm onboard with the tag and prove it scenario. Last thing I want is to ship Darnold and JJ ends up having the Burrow Injury bug.
Look at how happy Ziggy looks in the locker room speeches. He even made it into the edit standing next to Sam beaming two weeks ago. That doesn’t just happen by chance. It’s all the evidence I need, we’re keeping America’s Quarterback.
Go back at the past two years' locker room speeches, and you'll see the same thing with them standing next to Kirk. Don't read too much into this stuff. KO hitched his wagon to JJ, that's who they're going with.
@BM-si2ei - remind me how long Rodgers sat behind Farve? Or Love behind Rodgers? Perhaps that's a better plan than pushing a 22 yr old QB to the Lions/Packagers and Bears? Oh my!
Happy Holidays, gentlemen. *Q for Boone: When Mike Grant retires, which should be in a couple years, would you seriously consider applying to head coach the EP Eagles HS team and continue the tradition of excellence?? BTW, they've run 55 times a game for nearly 30 yrs now, so you don't even need to create a playbook.*
I think it’s hilarious that after one good year they wanna throw the bag at Sam darnold especially since you haven’t built this team to where you want it yet, this is not a Super Bowl roster just yet, we still have some holes and I think 1 year of Sam doesn’t override his other 6 years or whatever it is
I'm convinced there will be a meeting between Kwesi, KOC, McCown, Zygi, and Mark Wilf, and a few others, which will decide the fate of Sam Darnold and the Minnesota Vikings sometime thus coming February. When it happens, the meeting's results will almost completely depend on Darnold's playoff performance.
I think if Sam manages to get this team to the NFC title game, his chances of returning here skyrocket. Even moreso if he wins that game and gets the team to the Superbowl.
Funny how other teams seem to find a way to pay their top players and be perennial powers but according to the much smarter fans somehow the Vikings just won't be able to figure it out.
Great show! Agree they sign him or tag him .... but he doesnt leave. They will loose the locker room if they dont keep him. Flores is the other one they can't let go.
I like what Sam is doing, but if we pay him its going to mess up the future of us paying 6 mill a year for a QB. We want to be able to afford more pieces on the team.
Im with you nobody talks enough about van ginckle and johnathon greenard signings from an empty pass rushing room with daniel hunter to having luxary problems there and Blake cashman if they can fill out the corners and trenches this is an even more legit roster
Why don't you guys wait and see how the playoff goes. The problem is that oline is too weak. If he can take Vikings to the NFC championship game then you sign him. But you need to restructure that oline for sure.👍
That's just based on so many false assumptions. Extending Sam won't affect the 2025 cap space to add new pieces. The Vikes have JJ for 5 years, one or two more years isn't going to hurt that. Also playing a rookie might save on the QB contract but it could also waste a year or more of Jefferson, Addison and TJs deals while he has a Caleb or Drake Maye year. Sam's trade value will be worth much more in draft picks that could impact the team over 4 or 5 years than any short term cap space will do.
I'll be honest part of me thought you guys weren't going to bring anything up about the Vikings this week because Mackey's pretty Good about that. But it does make sense. The Vikings are hot right now.
Question for you two..... Campbell is a great leader in Detroit, he can motivate his guys to run through a wall, dive on a live grenade. My question watching their defense this season, they fly into tackle with wild abandon, great anticipation but with wild energy that their bodies are flailing....hence a lot of injuries from basically good tackling technique reduced to poor tackling technique I watch Vikings and a few teams who swarm as good as Detroit, but more calm, focused, less injuries. Is my take an incorrect one?
DFQ: Can you guys explain any/ all sides of the locker room & coaching staff when someone gets plucked from your practice squad? Like does the player meet with the HC or mgmnt?
Tag him, ask him what contract he wants, and what teams are on his short list, then go to those teams, tell them what Sam wants, and you’re going to need a 2nd rounder and some change for him, the draft Kaleb Johnson from Iowa
That is ridiculously off the mark. Sam got much more than that when he left the Jets - a 2nd, 6th and 4th. Titans 1st rounder and Jeffrey Simmons is the minimum to even pick up the phone. We're talking a top 5-10 QB here. Russ Wilson got two 1sts and two 2nds. Deshaun Watson got three 1sts and three day 3 picks
@@trevormiller4508 40 year old Rodgers went for picks 13, 42, 207 and 41. I don't think folks have any idea how valuable Sam is starting become - and how much a 1st round pick is over 4 or 5 years in cash. Chicago Bears CB pick 44 Jaylon Jones was just extended for 4 years at $76m. I think his 4 year rookie deal was about $8m. If Kwesi should be able to get 2 or 3 top 50 picks for Sam in a year or so which could transform the roster.
It can't be 60 per year. The tag is $41m so if Sam wants more than that Kwesi just needs to go - you're tagged, 1 year $41m, no discussion, so any deal will be lower than that.
They will FRANCHISE TAG. So obvious they will try to trade and if the value isn’t right they will roll with Darnold another year. If we keep him and balls out AGAIN, you have to pay him. Crazy to think they’d let him walk after this year.
Finally someone that agrees with me. If they think McHandoff would have half the season Darnold has this year they better think again. A HUGE UNPROVEN IN THE NFL...
@@laredolassoo Yeah never understood that comparison. Sam has more talent in his wrapped-up pinky than Keenum had in his entire body. Zimmer may have been an a-hole but he was right about one thing regarding Keenum during that magical run : "He has a horseshoe stuck up his azz" and he was right..
Dude, that is so wrong it's laughable. The tag is $41m. Kwesi can execute that without asking. It is all guaranteed. The $60m number isn't a possibility. Sam can win elsewhere. He won 5 times as often as any other QB in Carolina, and he's a better player now. I don think you are right that Sam will likely agree to a team friendly deal. He wants to stay. The team wants him to stay. It's in his interest to keep learning from KOC. I'd suggest a number between $30-35m is likely because it has to be under $41m to be any advantage to Kwesi.
Underestimating the Qb whisperer.. he can do this again with Daniel Jones if he wants.. JJ was a better QB in the preseason.. there is a plan.. also, any rookie would thrive in KOCs system..
I think if they sign Darnold, the chance of fixing the Oline goes kaput. I want them to sign Darnold but I just dunno if its the best thing for the team. If you look at the best teams in the league, lions, chiefs, eagles, they have excellent Olines...except the Vikings. Darnold is back there every week getting mashed almost every time he drops back. He's a tough dude, which is another reason to want him back there. Tough decision.
23:05 i 100% fisagree on trading JJ, if he is OUR GUY regardless of sam, we could do BETTER than green bay…we have KOC…the QB whisperer, the QB career saving super hero….so i think jerimiah is right, franchise tag “do it again” and JJ goes QB2 for an extra year getting garbage time, and preseason
Question for both of you Oline tight net of guys....now you guys are motivated, but I get one of you is slow to react, his focus is good but just not as solid as it need to be. Is there a way as a group you help someone get his level up? Focus?
Boone since he has insight into Harbaugh, has to tell me why they refuse to play DJ Chark . He's a big play WR and he's gonna not be as questionable as Quentin Johnston is.
No one is going to make a decision on JJ in 9 weeks. All 41m of the franchise tag hits the 2025 salary cap - so chops the FA spending in half, before they even re-sign their own guys. Kwesi will lose much of his draft leverage if other teams know he needs to take a deal before week 10 or get nothing. It is by far the most stupid and only desperation option. Signing a short 2-3 year deal avoids ALL of those problems.
It would be a franchise mistake to sign sam to a deal. U sign him to 50m, the rest of the team stays as is with no cap room. JJ might be worst until he develops but he will have a helluva team with the cap space and we will be better. You build the trenches. Sam needs this infrastructure to win, u cant guarantee he will repeat this. Just like brock. U cant run this team emotionally, gotta think long term.
Dude, you should at least learn the basics. You are so wrong in nearly everything you say that it's difficult to know where to start. The franchise tag is $41m which Kwesi can apply without even discussing with Sam, so it is not possible for them to pay $50m. The team would be much better long term with the haul of draft picks they could get for trading Sam if they extend him, much, much better than a minor bit of cap space - which won't really be much different whether they extend Sam or let Sam walk.
@@robe2504 Franchise tagging him $41m? Thats not much cheaper and you handicap yourself to improve this next year in FA. Trading him is not much easier either? The market has to have the demand, you cant buy everything the media is saying with how much teams would want him or even the situation overall disgruntled player etc can severely affect trade leverage. Fact of the matter, regardless if you want him to stay or not, lets see if he can lead us in the post season. This is how we fall into the “Kirk” type of purgatory. You have to think of cost opportunity, if u spend alot here, u lose elsewhere. It takes a wholeass team to win. Stop acting like Sam has been doing this for years lmao
@@MrJustinMN You have missed the point. The Vikes won't pay him $50m, because they don't have to. If they want to keep him they can just enforce the tag which is $41m which means the maximum they would have to pay if they wanted to keep him is $41m - there is no circumstance where the Vikes will pay $50m. Also Sam will not hit the market, unless the Vikes decide not to sign or tag him. That's that. The Vikes have rights over him. The disadvantage of the franchise tag is that the whole $41m hits the 2025 salary cap, and if they want to trade Sam they will have to do it before the trade deadline in week 10. The smarter and more likely move would be to extend Sam on a 2 or 3 year deal. Kwesi can easily construct a contract that would hardly affect the 2025 salary cap - so the Vikes could have Sam and still have all the cap space that you are worrying about. It is possible to have both. You are probably unaware that the Vikes will get a $5m dead cap hit if Sam leaves in FA, and it will probably cost $5-10m to sign Daniel Jones as a bridge back up. So the total cost if Sam leaves will be $10-15m against the 2025 cap. It would be pretty straightforward for Kwesi to construct a contract that has a similar net cost against the 2025 cap. Justin Jefferson's $140m 4 year deal starts in 2025 and his 2025 cap hit is only $15m, and Sam's deal will likely only be half that. Trading him will be much easier under a 2 or 3 deal for many reasons. The Vikes will be able to sign him cheaper than any other team, because the tag sets a ceiling that other teams don't have, and Sam wants to be at the Vikes. A 2 or 3 year extension also means that Kwesi has a much wider trade window - all through FA, during the draft, pre-season and up until the dead line in week 10 of 2025, and all of those same periods in 2026, and even 2027 if it's a 3 year deal. Please don't be obtuse. Sam is performing at a top 5-10 QB level and at least 7 teams don't even have a Daniel Jones level starting QB next season. Plus multiple teams typically lose their QB during the season - Dak, Carr, DeShaun, Lawrence are all out this season. Having a 2-3 year window means that Kwesi can just wait for a quality opportunity. Every game that Sam plays likely just makes him more valuable, as he continues working with KOC and consolidates his new reputation. And stop being silly about his level of play. He is up their with Goff, Burrow, Lamar, Allen, Mahomes in virtually every category, ahead in many. You can't fluke 13 wins and you can't fluke the high level of play that he is producing. It is nothing like the Kirk purgatory. It is stupid to even make that comparison because Kirks contract was set up by Spielman, and Kwesi has worked from day 1 to get out of it, and turned it down point blank when push came to shove in FA this year. Kwesi has already shown you that he won't make deals like that. Time to catch up with the real world. If you had been watching Sam play in Carolina you would have seen him playing like this down there too, just with a worse team, and coaching, and not as consistently. KOC has improved his play, but so has he and Sam has always had elite talent. The extension will confirm that anyway.
@@robe2504You cant fluke 13 wins? Have you seen the Vikings? Better yet, have you seen football? Lmao you can get bounced the first round and be terrible the following year. You must be high, to compare Sam to the top QBs in our league off of one year stats. Theres such thing of “catching lightning in a bottle”. You can mess around with the cap all you want and make up trade scenarios in a “perfect world”. Fact of the matter is, Sam will most likely want the most money he can get just like 99% of players. If we franchise tag him and keep him from getting his money / risking a year of potential injury, any player would he disgruntled in that position and that always hurts trade value. You can say whatever you want about stats this year, but you cant assume he will continue to repeat this without any history prior of real success outside of a couple of good games. Keep living in the moment man, cant fault you on that. Im happy too we are playing great. But this is the type of stuff that keeps the Vikings mediocre long term. We will just see how this plays out, we should always be on the side of building the trenches up if we ever want to keep SB windows open longer. Stop with the Kirk type nonsense that sends us into mediocre purgatory.
Dumb football question. I’ll start by saying I know you can’t judge a player by one game but let’s do it anyway. After their bowl games who do you like better? Shedeur Sanders who didn’t get a touchdown until the game was basically over but played the whole game or Cam Ward who had a great first half but quit on his team with the outcome still in question?
You do the smart thing and let Darnold keep the starting job and let JJ learn. JJ hasn’t been getting reps because of his injury. Let him sit and learn. More teams need to learn from the Packers method. The issue is how much money is darnold gonna want
What "ifs" are you talking about? Have you watched one minute of the season? And apparently you've seen all you need to in that one preseason game to know McCarthy is a sure thing?
@usa91787 hes not played 1 snap in the playoffs so I'm not ready to hand him the franchise. I don't trust McCarthy either I trust KOC. Also the roster will be far less good when you are paying sam 50-60 mil a year. We just got off a qb that couldn't get it done at a high salary and you're ready to go right back to that with ZERO playoff success. All I'm saying is wait to the end of the season before crowning next years qb
@@bestbakana24 "hes not played 1 snap in the playoffs so I'm not ready to hand him the franchise." >>> Well he's GOING TO play 1 snap in the playoffs now. Get ready to be proven right or wrong, one way or the other. " We just got off a qb that couldn't get it done at a high salary and you're ready to go right back to that with ZERO playoff success. " >>> Technically, Kirk did win them a Playoff game so there was some success there. I think Sam (assuming he continues his great performance) can win more this postseason.
Agree with J, they franchise Darnold. If JJ is the real deal, the Vikes can trade Darnold and get some compensation for him as well. Merrry Christmas!!!
Darnold 60 MILLION?? I was figuring $50 was the tops. He’s been lights out tho…and doesn’t even turn the ball over anymore. 16 tds and 1 interception last 6 games, with a leaky offensive line! I knew he could be good in this system…but not a stretch this good! 🔥
The biggest question is, can Sam perform making that much of the salary cap because you will lose players and your guard situation will remain the same and Cam Bynum needs to get paid. They must not let Cam leave. I’d pick Cam over Sam, no offense to Sam.
You don't take points off the board because you might score a touchdown. In case that went over your head - They know what they have in Darnold and hope they're right with McCarthy. If they let Darnold walk they're taking points off the board. Besides, let's say they do let Darnold walk and McCarthy IS good. Do you let him walk too after the rookie deal because he's too much money? Because that's the culture you're creating if you do.
The only reason I can think to not keep darnold is if defenses just havent had enough time to scheme verses the vikes new look. Isnt he doing everything youd want JJ to do? Can JJ be better and cheaper for 4 years?
Congrats on 30.1K subs for Christmas! Well deserved.
Darnold has made me a “believer” to the point I think KO could accomplish similar results with nearly any above average QB available. Darnold has limitations and the roster around him should get plenty of credit. If he gets paid like the 5-10th best QB in the league on like a three year deal they can walk away from the next couple years I’m not mad at all though. 💜💛
Dan Jones has all the physical tools too. KOC can probably do the same with him.
@@everlastinglife5978 Maybe, but would you swap a winning lottery ticket for just another lottery ticket?
The 2025 franchise tag for QB is estimated at $41m - so that's pretty much the ceiling. Kwesi can negotiate down from there because anything that Sam wants will cost some discount, otherwise Kwesi can just go, sorry I'm tagging you for $41m and will trade you if I want. Kwesi has all the leverage. Sam wants to stay. The team wants him to stay. It's in his best long term interests to stay and prove he's not a one year wonder. I'd be surprised if we didn't see a pretty team friendly 2-3 year deal.
I think this “quarterback whisperer” talk has gone overboard. At some point you have to give the player credit. I’m starting to wonder if it’s actually Sam that has done more for KOCs reputation than the other way round. Darnold is a physically gifted QB. He has impressive arm strength & pocket mobility that Cousins & many other NFL QBs lack. He can throw on the run laterally or vertically. He was taken 3rd in the draft for a reason. He was only 20 yrs old when he came into the league so he’s still young. He wasn’t prepared to start bang out of college. His biggest weaknesses were teachable things…decision making, discipline, don’t force the ball into tight coverage, etc. This isn’t a plug & play situation. Not many qbs have his skill set or physical gifts (he was a prospective linebacker at one point). The Vikings were picked by virtually all prognosticators to finish bottom of the NFC North with between 4-6 wins. All these pundits knew who the coach & skill position players are on this team. The main reason is #14.
Darnold was 8-9 as the starter in Carolina and would have led them to the playoffs if not for an absolutely horrible DB performance by a Carolina guy who got burned by 3 easy TD passes. Carolina has struggled to win any game in the past few years with other QB’s.
Boonie just wants to hand everybody millions of dollars. Sam and Ben Johnson would get 500 million bucks of Boone was a gm 😂. Love the show. It's the best
NFL: Player Safety is our #1 priority
Also NFL: Yeah have fun with a short week
39:25 Holy shite! Sirles, your (L) ring finger looks like it's at a 45° angle.
Absolutely _loved_ the discussion on QB/OL gifts. The love Sirles has for Phillip Rivers just oozes out of every pore, LOL.
Speaking of the 2017 season, I just can't envision Nick Easton or Danny Isidora duck hunting with a Keenum shotgun!😂
*Q for both: If OL guys get gifts from their QBs and RBs, what do the defensive players get?? Do gifts, if any, go to any captains on defense?*
I need to hear the Boone story he refused to tell about a QB gifting nothing. I conspicuously noticed he didn't say a word about Kaepernick.🤔
Merry Christmas big guys. Happy to listen to your insight and all the work you do.
You guys teach me so much when you share your football experience and wisdom with us. I so appreciate that you help me realize what I don't know!
Love me some Phil Mackey, I'm a stan for sure. But Jeremiah taking the helm just works. QB controversy in the OLine committee??? Who's the Rhino going to side with?
Totally agree
I don't think Sirles wants to be QB lol he's good at it, but they're good how they're normally set up
They should sign Sam for 3 more years just like JJ starts having Sam is a Bonus he would be the best Substitute QB in the league and he has already proven his worth I hope they see the long term outlook Sam is a great passer and he still has a lot to do contribute...Merry X-mas !!!! SKOL !!!
Y'all are great - funny, informative, enthusiastic - you've got it all. I like that you can give the "been there" perspective, but are clearly just football fans first and foremost. Thanks a bunch. Side note: I became a Vikings fan in 1969, as a kid, so I have suffered a LOT. Do y'all think they really have a legit shot against the other top teams in the league (Phi, Det, Buf, Bal, KC, etc.)? Thanks again.
If Sam keeps playing this well the only reason to run with JJ instead of Sam is if they really believe he can win a SB before his rookie contract is up.
This is the best football show I have ever watched Love these old line guys
Im 100% with Jeremiah. Tag and prove it. 1 year isnt enough for me to say he is 100% this guy! But 2 then yes he needs to be kept. The only problem with that he will get way more expensive.
Tag costs $41m all against the 2025 salary cap, so it sucks up most of the space for FAs, and means Sam must be traded before the 10 week deadline or Kwesi loses all rights, so it hands the leverage over to all potential trade partners.
A short 2-3 year extension will likely cost less per year, will greatly reduce the 2025 cap hit, and will give Kwesi a much bigger trade window, so that he can trade Sam when the situation is most advantageous.
If Sam proves it his trade value will likely double, and so will his new deal
The tag should be the last resort - but Sam wants to stay, it's in his interest to continue working with KOC, and the team wants him to stay.
I think it’s probable that with Darnold’s NFL experience ( being drafted at 20!), he will understand the advantages of having enough cap space for an elite Oline and defense. Maybe players will begin to assess their choices differently when they realize you can be Tom Brady or Kirk Cousins. You can make as much as you can from your team at its ( and your) detriment. Do you want a career where you take up a quarter of the cap space on one or two players who can’t win enough in the NFL on their own to get your team above “good”. What a different world when you have money to fill needs for your team to truly compete. I trust our management to make the right decision for our team with vastly more information about our players than we have. But I am not ready to go back to overpaying a QB again.
@@pamelajones1083 I think your Tom Brady comparison is very astute. He took a reasonable deal at Tampa so the team could develop around him.
Kirk took top dollar and has now constrained two rosters.
A short extension gives Sam, KOC and Kwesi options. It's a win all round.
I'd say it's inevitable. I'm thinking 2 years $60-70m, but I could see a 3 year deal with an easy out.
I'm intrigued waiting to see what Kwesi comes up with.
It's also exciting to think about a future draft with multiple 1st and 2nd round picks after Sam has been traded!
sKOL!
Yes but look at all the qbs that are good out there and what they are making. Teams make it work when you have talent. They got one hell of a bargain this year with him. He deserves a raise. When Jones made 40 million and got cut that's pathetic.
@@robe2504Brady was already well off that was not in fact a good comparison
I love your show so much bc I learn so much, especially never having had the opportunity to play the game.
Detroit hasn't lost a road game. They come out more pumped up on the road
Been saying it since he signed... SAM's the MAN! 🏈 👍
You guys are the best just enjoy your crazy ways, make my day always 😂...
Tag and trade. I’ll take a second for Sam and throw in a fourth
You'd be a fool to let Sam go.. I think he's different than cousins too. Darnold isn't an idiot. He knows this fit is perfect and MN has money... They will pay him and not as much as he could get somewhere else (where he could potentially suck like Cousins) Cousins failing in Atlanta will inspire Darnold to stay in MN for what MN gives him and they will pay him. He deserves it. I want at least 2-3 more years of Darnold if this is the kind of play we are going to get. JJ is totally unproven at this level and can sit and learn like many other future great QB's did.
There is no way Darnold asks for less than $40 million / year after this season.
Good point
Congrats on 30k subscribers 🎉
Love listening to you guys. Merry Christmas to all 3 of you guys.
Now what crazy thing is going to happen for the Vikings to lose in the playoffs.
Vikings for sure are tagging Sam. There is no way they are going to compete in the open market. They will take all the picks in a trade and if no one bites, they keep him one more year for around 45m. Only reason to sign a different deal is to structure a cap friendly multi-year contract.
You just gave one of the main reasons for a multi year deal - cheaper overall, significantly reduces the 2025 cap hit, and a much bigger trade window gives Kwesi much better leverage over potential trade partners.
You guys are the best!!!!!
Merry Christmas to you guys & thank you for all you do ❤
If Sam win's us and a SB and Sam walks for an unproven rookie I'll be pissed
Feed the Algorithm!!!! Merry Christmas OLC family!!!!!
I've always believed that everything starts in the trenches and the way you talk about how you plan, the grading and train for you next opponent really confirms how important the line is.
Merry Christmas podcasters!
I know Mackey wasn't on PD but for some reason it surprised me he wasn't on here. Ding bud... Ding.
He is traveling for Christmas is what they said on PD
No excuses
If Harbaugh can make it after a heart attack, Mackey can send in a video clip…🤣
Imagine Darnold having a whole off-season with KOC and Josh McCown to really dial it in . I'm onboard with the tag and prove it scenario. Last thing I want is to ship Darnold and JJ ends up having the Burrow Injury bug.
Love hearing from the O-line. Merry Christmas
great show guys
Awesome as usual.
Merry Christmas guys, grats on 30k!
Look at how happy Ziggy looks in the locker room speeches. He even made it into the edit standing next to Sam beaming two weeks ago. That doesn’t just happen by chance. It’s all the evidence I need, we’re keeping America’s Quarterback.
Not if you're trading him for a 1st and a 3rd
@@miamisasquatch If not more because Qbs come at a premium.
Go back at the past two years' locker room speeches, and you'll see the same thing with them standing next to Kirk. Don't read too much into this stuff. KO hitched his wagon to JJ, that's who they're going with.
@BM-si2ei - remind me how long Rodgers sat behind Farve? Or Love behind Rodgers? Perhaps that's a better plan than pushing a 22 yr old QB to the Lions/Packagers and Bears? Oh my!
@@roryolson61 And there's a reason why they have only won two Superbowls despite having HOF QB play for 30 years.
Merry Christmas 🎅🏻and thank you 🙏
Happy Holidays, gentlemen.
*Q for Boone: When Mike Grant retires, which should be in a couple years, would you seriously consider applying to head coach the EP Eagles HS team and continue the tradition of excellence?? BTW, they've run 55 times a game for nearly 30 yrs now, so you don't even need to create a playbook.*
My DFQ is, Did you prefer your OC in the booth or on the sideline as a player? Also if you were to be an OC where would you be and why?
I think it’s hilarious that after one good year they wanna throw the bag at Sam darnold especially since you haven’t built this team to where you want it yet, this is not a Super Bowl roster just yet, we still have some holes and I think 1 year of Sam doesn’t override his other 6 years or whatever it is
Love you guys. Thanks!
I'm convinced there will be a meeting between Kwesi, KOC, McCown, Zygi, and Mark Wilf, and a few others, which will decide the fate of Sam Darnold and the Minnesota Vikings sometime thus coming February. When it happens, the meeting's results will almost completely depend on Darnold's playoff performance.
I think if Sam manages to get this team to the NFC title game, his chances of returning here skyrocket.
Even moreso if he wins that game and gets the team to the Superbowl.
"It's not the gift; it's what the gift represents." Kirk Cousins 😂
the Eagles aren’t a strong enough team mentally to come back from any adversity. starts with the coach
The problem with paying darnold isn't darnold. It's the roster.
Funny how other teams seem to find a way to pay their top players and be perennial powers but according to the much smarter fans somehow the Vikings just won't be able to figure it out.
@@usa91787 Yeah. Everyone else seems to turn into an armchair GM all of a sudden. lol
Great show! Agree they sign him or tag him .... but he doesnt leave. They will loose the locker room if they dont keep him. Flores is the other one they can't let go.
49:36 fukn love Boone. Just truths. ❤️
Alex please share more 49ers stories I love them
Give JJ the Jordan Love treatment.. sit him 3 years and have JJ earn his next contract by his play??
Great stuff.
I like what Sam is doing, but if we pay him its going to mess up the future of us paying 6 mill a year for a QB. We want to be able to afford more pieces on the team.
Im with you nobody talks enough about van ginckle and johnathon greenard signings from an empty pass rushing room with daniel hunter to having luxary problems there and Blake cashman if they can fill out the corners and trenches this is an even more legit roster
Why don't you guys wait and see how the playoff goes. The problem is that oline is too weak. If he can take Vikings to the NFC championship game then you sign him. But you need to restructure that oline for sure.👍
Franchise tag him!
That's just based on so many false assumptions. Extending Sam won't affect the 2025 cap space to add new pieces. The Vikes have JJ for 5 years, one or two more years isn't going to hurt that. Also playing a rookie might save on the QB contract but it could also waste a year or more of Jefferson, Addison and TJs deals while he has a Caleb or Drake Maye year.
Sam's trade value will be worth much more in draft picks that could impact the team over 4 or 5 years than any short term cap space will do.
it us about winning sb not winning the budget you change plan when conditions change
I'll be honest part of me thought you guys weren't going to bring anything up about the Vikings this week because Mackey's pretty Good about that. But it does make sense. The Vikings are hot right now.
On the next episode can you rank all the QB gifts to their O-Line this year? Who cheaped out?
Question for you two.....
Campbell is a great leader in Detroit, he can motivate his guys to run through a wall, dive on a live grenade. My question watching their defense this season, they fly into tackle with wild abandon, great anticipation but with wild energy that their bodies are flailing....hence a lot of injuries from basically good tackling technique reduced to poor tackling technique
I watch Vikings and a few teams who swarm as good as Detroit, but more calm, focused, less injuries. Is my take an incorrect one?
28:20 he got it from a highschool team word for word bar for bar 😂
DFQ: Can you guys explain any/ all sides of the locker room & coaching staff when someone gets plucked from your practice squad? Like does the player meet with the HC or mgmnt?
Question how hard is it to go from c to g to tackle like how Joe thuny is doing for Kansas City especially in the middle of a game
Tag him, ask him what contract he wants, and what teams are on his short list, then go to those teams, tell them what Sam wants, and you’re going to need a 2nd rounder and some change for him, the draft Kaleb Johnson from Iowa
That is ridiculously off the mark. Sam got much more than that when he left the Jets - a 2nd, 6th and 4th.
Titans 1st rounder and Jeffrey Simmons is the minimum to even pick up the phone. We're talking a top 5-10 QB here.
Russ Wilson got two 1sts and two 2nds.
Deshaun Watson got three 1sts and three day 3 picks
At least a 1st and change
@@trevormiller4508 40 year old Rodgers went for picks 13, 42, 207 and 41. I don't think folks have any idea how valuable Sam is starting become - and how much a 1st round pick is over 4 or 5 years in cash.
Chicago Bears CB pick 44 Jaylon Jones was just extended for 4 years at $76m. I think his 4 year rookie deal was about $8m. If Kwesi should be able to get 2 or 3 top 50 picks for Sam in a year or so which could transform the roster.
@@robe2504 exactly. Which is a 1st and change…
@@robe2504 why wouldn’t a team just wait out another year after we use the tag?
Which position in the NFL can benefit the most from great coaching?
4 weeks ago I suggested 90million over 3 years.. and I was laughed at. Now we are talking 60 per year.. 😅
It can't be 60 per year. The tag is $41m so if Sam wants more than that Kwesi just needs to go - you're tagged, 1 year $41m, no discussion, so any deal will be lower than that.
I suggested 90/3 after week 4, just in case he kept up his hot start. He might have done it at that point.
Q: Why do some teams seem to have more injuries than others year after year #dumbfootballquestions
At the very least they need to bring Sam back for another year.
Let someone else pay him. No WAY the Vikings even pay him 50 million /year. JJ is KOC's guy
They will FRANCHISE TAG. So obvious they will try to trade and if the value isn’t right they will roll with Darnold another year. If we keep him and balls out AGAIN, you have to pay him. Crazy to think they’d let him walk after this year.
Finally someone that agrees with me. If they think McHandoff would have half the season Darnold has this year they better think again. A HUGE UNPROVEN IN THE NFL...
What if it's just a Case Keenum year guys!!?? I'm just a fan, but go with JJ and let him and Daniel Jones fight it out 🤷🏽♂️
He is twice the QB Keenum was.
@@laredolassoo Yeah never understood that comparison. Sam has more talent in his wrapped-up pinky than Keenum had in his entire body.
Zimmer may have been an a-hole but he was right about one thing regarding Keenum during that magical run : "He has a horseshoe stuck up his azz" and he was right..
$60 M a year - he will agree to$39 with generous guarantees- the only place he can win is here - not all about money
Dude, that is so wrong it's laughable. The tag is $41m. Kwesi can execute that without asking. It is all guaranteed. The $60m number isn't a possibility. Sam can win elsewhere. He won 5 times as often as any other QB in Carolina, and he's a better player now.
I don think you are right that Sam will likely agree to a team friendly deal. He wants to stay. The team wants him to stay. It's in his interest to keep learning from KOC. I'd suggest a number between $30-35m is likely because it has to be under $41m to be any advantage to Kwesi.
Underestimating the Qb whisperer.. he can do this again with Daniel Jones if he wants.. JJ was a better QB in the preseason.. there is a plan.. also, any rookie would thrive in KOCs system..
The Vikings would be lucky to be .500 if McCarthy had been the starter this year.
I think if they sign Darnold, the chance of fixing the Oline goes kaput. I want them to sign Darnold but I just dunno if its the best thing for the team. If you look at the best teams in the league, lions, chiefs, eagles, they have excellent Olines...except the Vikings. Darnold is back there every week getting mashed almost every time he drops back. He's a tough dude, which is another reason to want him back there. Tough decision.
And if you look at those teams they're doing it while paying their QB. So there's that little flaw in your theory.
@@usa91787 Everyone's a friggin' Armchair GM now. It's hilarious.
23:05 i 100% fisagree on trading JJ, if he is OUR GUY regardless of sam, we could do BETTER than green bay…we have KOC…the QB whisperer, the QB career saving super hero….so i think jerimiah is right, franchise tag “do it again” and JJ goes QB2 for an extra year getting garbage time, and preseason
Question for both of you
Oline tight net of guys....now you guys are motivated, but I get one of you is slow to react, his focus is good but just not as solid as it need to be. Is there a way as a group you help someone get his level up? Focus?
Merry Christmas
What would have been the terms of two-year contract with Darnold? A three-year?
Boon, KOC has already done this twice with 2 different qbs. JJ McCarthy is the 2025 vikings starting QB
Boone since he has insight into Harbaugh, has to tell me why they refuse to play DJ Chark . He's a big play WR and he's gonna not be as questionable as Quentin Johnston is.
He’s washed. He’s not getting open and he’s physically borderline. Too many miles.
DFQ: Would an 18 game schedule work if games were 7, 8, or 9 days apart with only 1 bye week? (NFL every day of the week)
12-2 record? THEY'RE 13-2, guys. It's basic math.
Franchise tag is a prove it deal, and if Darnold is beat out by JJ or JJ it looks really good, the Vikings would have until week 9 to trade either or
No one is going to make a decision on JJ in 9 weeks. All 41m of the franchise tag hits the 2025 salary cap - so chops the FA spending in half, before they even re-sign their own guys. Kwesi will lose much of his draft leverage if other teams know he needs to take a deal before week 10 or get nothing.
It is by far the most stupid and only desperation option.
Signing a short 2-3 year deal avoids ALL of those problems.
Someone has to be in charge when dad’s away! 😂
To me I am fine with tagging Sam and giving JJ a full year to develop with no injuries.
It would be a franchise mistake to sign sam to a deal. U sign him to 50m, the rest of the team stays as is with no cap room. JJ might be worst until he develops but he will have a helluva team with the cap space and we will be better. You build the trenches. Sam needs this infrastructure to win, u cant guarantee he will repeat this. Just like brock. U cant run this team emotionally, gotta think long term.
Amen!!!
Dude, you should at least learn the basics. You are so wrong in nearly everything you say that it's difficult to know where to start.
The franchise tag is $41m which Kwesi can apply without even discussing with Sam, so it is not possible for them to pay $50m.
The team would be much better long term with the haul of draft picks they could get for trading Sam if they extend him, much, much better than a minor bit of cap space - which won't really be much different whether they extend Sam or let Sam walk.
@@robe2504 Franchise tagging him $41m? Thats not much cheaper and you handicap yourself to improve this next year in FA. Trading him is not much easier either? The market has to have the demand, you cant buy everything the media is saying with how much teams would want him or even the situation overall disgruntled player etc can severely affect trade leverage. Fact of the matter, regardless if you want him to stay or not, lets see if he can lead us in the post season. This is how we fall into the “Kirk” type of purgatory. You have to think of cost opportunity, if u spend alot here, u lose elsewhere. It takes a wholeass team to win. Stop acting like Sam has been doing this for years lmao
@@MrJustinMN You have missed the point. The Vikes won't pay him $50m, because they don't have to. If they want to keep him they can just enforce the tag which is $41m which means the maximum they would have to pay if they wanted to keep him is $41m - there is no circumstance where the Vikes will pay $50m. Also Sam will not hit the market, unless the Vikes decide not to sign or tag him. That's that. The Vikes have rights over him. The disadvantage of the franchise tag is that the whole $41m hits the 2025 salary cap, and if they want to trade Sam they will have to do it before the trade deadline in week 10.
The smarter and more likely move would be to extend Sam on a 2 or 3 year deal. Kwesi can easily construct a contract that would hardly affect the 2025 salary cap - so the Vikes could have Sam and still have all the cap space that you are worrying about. It is possible to have both. You are probably unaware that the Vikes will get a $5m dead cap hit if Sam leaves in FA, and it will probably cost $5-10m to sign Daniel Jones as a bridge back up. So the total cost if Sam leaves will be $10-15m against the 2025 cap. It would be pretty straightforward for Kwesi to construct a contract that has a similar net cost against the 2025 cap. Justin Jefferson's $140m 4 year deal starts in 2025 and his 2025 cap hit is only $15m, and Sam's deal will likely only be half that.
Trading him will be much easier under a 2 or 3 deal for many reasons. The Vikes will be able to sign him cheaper than any other team, because the tag sets a ceiling that other teams don't have, and Sam wants to be at the Vikes. A 2 or 3 year extension also means that Kwesi has a much wider trade window - all through FA, during the draft, pre-season and up until the dead line in week 10 of 2025, and all of those same periods in 2026, and even 2027 if it's a 3 year deal.
Please don't be obtuse. Sam is performing at a top 5-10 QB level and at least 7 teams don't even have a Daniel Jones level starting QB next season. Plus multiple teams typically lose their QB during the season - Dak, Carr, DeShaun, Lawrence are all out this season. Having a 2-3 year window means that Kwesi can just wait for a quality opportunity. Every game that Sam plays likely just makes him more valuable, as he continues working with KOC and consolidates his new reputation.
And stop being silly about his level of play. He is up their with Goff, Burrow, Lamar, Allen, Mahomes in virtually every category, ahead in many. You can't fluke 13 wins and you can't fluke the high level of play that he is producing. It is nothing like the Kirk purgatory. It is stupid to even make that comparison because Kirks contract was set up by Spielman, and Kwesi has worked from day 1 to get out of it, and turned it down point blank when push came to shove in FA this year. Kwesi has already shown you that he won't make deals like that. Time to catch up with the real world.
If you had been watching Sam play in Carolina you would have seen him playing like this down there too, just with a worse team, and coaching, and not as consistently. KOC has improved his play, but so has he and Sam has always had elite talent. The extension will confirm that anyway.
@@robe2504You cant fluke 13 wins? Have you seen the Vikings? Better yet, have you seen football? Lmao you can get bounced the first round and be terrible the following year. You must be high, to compare Sam to the top QBs in our league off of one year stats. Theres such thing of “catching lightning in a bottle”. You can mess around with the cap all you want and make up trade scenarios in a “perfect world”. Fact of the matter is, Sam will most likely want the most money he can get just like 99% of players. If we franchise tag him and keep him from getting his money / risking a year of potential injury, any player would he disgruntled in that position and that always hurts trade value. You can say whatever you want about stats this year, but you cant assume he will continue to repeat this without any history prior of real success outside of a couple of good games. Keep living in the moment man, cant fault you on that. Im happy too we are playing great. But this is the type of stuff that keeps the Vikings mediocre long term. We will just see how this plays out, we should always be on the side of building the trenches up if we ever want to keep SB windows open longer. Stop with the Kirk type nonsense that sends us into mediocre purgatory.
Dumb football question. I’ll start by saying I know you can’t judge a player by one game but let’s do it anyway. After their bowl games who do you like better? Shedeur Sanders who didn’t get a touchdown until the game was basically over but played the whole game or Cam Ward who had a great first half but quit on his team with the outcome still in question?
Fun Show Boys/: I love you so
The mistake was not signing him to a multi-year contract in the first place.
You do the smart thing and let Darnold keep the starting job and let JJ learn. JJ hasn’t been getting reps because of his injury. Let him sit and learn. More teams need to learn from the Packers method. The issue is how much money is darnold gonna want
Who's and what game was in the 90s Jeremiah?
Theres still a whole lot of IFs with Sam. At the end of the day it should be up to KOC, that's why you hired him after all
What "ifs" are you talking about?
Have you watched one minute of the season?
And apparently you've seen all you need to in that one preseason game to know McCarthy is a sure thing?
@usa91787 hes not played 1 snap in the playoffs so I'm not ready to hand him the franchise. I don't trust McCarthy either I trust KOC. Also the roster will be far less good when you are paying sam 50-60 mil a year. We just got off a qb that couldn't get it done at a high salary and you're ready to go right back to that with ZERO playoff success. All I'm saying is wait to the end of the season before crowning next years qb
@@bestbakana24 "hes not played 1 snap in the playoffs so I'm not ready to hand him the franchise."
>>> Well he's GOING TO play 1 snap in the playoffs now. Get ready to be proven right or wrong, one way or the other.
" We just got off a qb that couldn't get it done at a high salary and you're ready to go right back to that with ZERO playoff success. "
>>> Technically, Kirk did win them a Playoff game so there was some success there. I think Sam (assuming he continues his great performance) can win more this postseason.
Agree with J, they franchise Darnold. If JJ is the real deal, the Vikes can trade Darnold and get some compensation for him as well. Merrry Christmas!!!
Kwesi isnt paying 40 a season maybe 25 a year for qb
40 mill is worth a top 60 pick if they can trade him.
No comment about Mackey not working on a Tuesday in season?
What % of the the time do the vikings pull guards and should they pull more
Darnold 60 MILLION?? I was figuring $50 was the tops. He’s been lights out tho…and doesn’t even turn the ball over anymore. 16 tds and 1 interception last 6 games, with a leaky offensive line! I knew he could be good in this system…but not a stretch this good! 🔥
This is a positive comment
Cant wait for trenches this week
The biggest question is, can Sam perform making that much of the salary cap because you will lose players and your guard situation will remain the same and Cam Bynum needs to get paid. They must not let Cam leave. I’d pick Cam over Sam, no offense to Sam.
You don't take points off the board because you might score a touchdown.
In case that went over your head -
They know what they have in Darnold and hope they're right with McCarthy.
If they let Darnold walk they're taking points off the board.
Besides, let's say they do let Darnold walk and McCarthy IS good. Do you let him walk too after the rookie deal because he's too much money?
Because that's the culture you're creating if you do.
The Rhino has been unleashed without Phil to police the language for the sponsorships lol
We sure he was a o-line men and not a trucker?!?!
The only reason I can think to not keep darnold is if defenses just havent had enough time to scheme verses the vikes new look. Isnt he doing everything youd want JJ to do? Can JJ be better and cheaper for 4 years?
I come here for the Chiefs hate from J. I stay for THAT @ 2:12 from B. - Chiefs fan -
Phil who? Great show guys
Dumb football question: are you guys still fans of your childhood team or do you have more allegiance to teams you’ve played for?
Don’t know how lsu wasn’t better with Malik Nabers, Brian Thomas, and Jayden Daniels. If only they had a little defense.
Ben Johnson to Cincinnati. Can you imagine Ben and Joey B together??
*Looks at the defense*
They need a defensive HC. Offense is obviously not their problem.