An Introduction to Japanese Buddhism with Robert Sharf (7/24/2012)

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ต.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 74

  • @thesunnyveil
    @thesunnyveil 10 ปีที่แล้ว +19

    Regarding some of the comments here about inaccuracies: I take one of his main points to be that Buddhism has evolved historically and therefore disagreement about what Buddhism "Is" and what its various schools "Have Been and Are" is to be expected and in many ways begs a question that really cannot be answered. I thought it was an excellent lecture. Possibly the best I have heard on the subject.

    • @calypsochilds6448
      @calypsochilds6448 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I think he needs to take a history lesson himself.

  • @todoroki
    @todoroki 10 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    In a nutshell, that was a humble and enlightening lecture by a maestro!

  • @jkoloklkoklokl
    @jkoloklkoklokl 9 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    they should've given him more time. i would really like to know the details about the different schools and about what happened between india and japan.

  • @StevenTham
    @StevenTham 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Interesting lecture. I pursued Buddhist studies before and still am. Prof has shared many key teachings of Buddhism and how it evolved in bite sized forms. Thank you for sharing this recorded lecture to benefit all. Merry Christmas to all and keep safe! From Singapore

  • @JoachimderZweite
    @JoachimderZweite 8 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    One you say "interrupt with your questions at any time" you lose control of the lecture and the time frame. It also empowers the low brows. It is always better to get it all out and then have a good question and answer session and it avoids rambling. This man knows his stuff but more procedural control would make for a better session..

  • @Diario_Brasil
    @Diario_Brasil 8 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Absolutely amazing lecture, I've learned a lot

  • @dingoswamphead
    @dingoswamphead 12 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Great introduction. I am saving this to really listen to later on.

  • @guruladakhi7960
    @guruladakhi7960 9 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Professor Robert Sharf is obviously very scholarly but because he may not be an initiate and a buddhist, he seems to erroneously feel that Buddhism deals only with suffering and just embracing it seems to be the point. If however one were to consider one of that fundamental cornerstones of buddhism which is the view of non-duality, then I think the argument that he proposes on suffering as above becomes itself irrelevant. Dharma also means to see "things as they are" untainted by our prejudices or preferences, hence often it is our view of the world that either binds us to the gross sufferings of samsara or can potentially liberate us from the same and if one were to truly understand the concept of non duality then suffering and joy are made up of the same stuff. However, when our masters speak of happiness they are going beyond a sensory feelings of elation or pleasure and talking of enduring serenity overflowing with compassion and wisdom that at its core has selflessness and therefore the absence of subject and object where you are the universe and the universe is you.

  • @streetcat3411
    @streetcat3411 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Why doesn't he say a word about Soka Gakkai, Japan's largest Buddhist organization?

    • @kuriringdjdhc8352
      @kuriringdjdhc8352 ปีที่แล้ว

      Well he clearly said it... And its a feudal Japan explanation

  • @kidkous
    @kidkous 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    It's a very good talk, for how quick it has to be. The mistake he's making which is making some say he's whatever name, it that he's accepting the critics nihilism accusation. Whereas Buddha strongly spoke about how suffering and nirvana were not nihilism. He's accepting nihilism as literal so extinction of suffering as part of nihilism.

    • @wimalism
      @wimalism 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yes true 😊

  • @aleixssbu
    @aleixssbu ปีที่แล้ว

    Brilliant lecture! 🙏

  • @vfgv4666tf
    @vfgv4666tf 11 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Well I am not an author on Buddhism ,but the definition of' Karma' within Indian context is not based on eventuality.You could say that in Indian context each being will ultimately achieve salvation/enlightenment but when it occurs depends upon his or her own actions.

  • @beatDPJ
    @beatDPJ 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Kofun is a pure Japanese thing because the oldest and newest and largest Kofuns are found in Japan while Kofuns in Korea were all smaller and hundreds years younger than in Japan. This is because Japanese controlled around the southern Korea, which is also recorded in Chinese/Japanese ancient history books, and there were many Japanese ppl including higher-ups who were buried in Korea in their homeland (Japanese) way (Kofun). Japan was warmer than Korea with lots of rice output so Japan had stronger military but behind civilization as China was far away in comparison with Korea. So Japan gave military supports to one of the Korean kingdom which gave Chinese/Indian civilization (Buddhism, Chinese characters, Temple construction)

  • @monjeconbotas4636
    @monjeconbotas4636 11 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    For example for Mahayanist we don't think that the teachings applied in the original schools was "crap". Mahayana and Hinayana were originally intentions to follow during its own practice. Monks of both intentions lived in the same temples and same orders in peace. Later, it became a pejorative term as is shown in many Mahayana sutras. Nevertheless, even if Mahayanist consider them less efficient the original teachings of the Buddha are holy and praised.

  • @monjeconbotas4636
    @monjeconbotas4636 11 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Finally the speaker mentions something important, many schools converted Buddhism into a "science of happiness". The original message of Buddhism is to accept the world as it is, the happiness that is mention in the Buddhism is not the concept that we regularly use in the west. It is more an issue with the translation and should be something like passionless state of bliss and satisfaction, where there is no dualism between happiness and sadness.

    • @SergioSanchez-og7ms
      @SergioSanchez-og7ms 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Monje Con Botas it is because judeo-cristian thinking is like, we are going to get all in the name of god. Because we are the good guys.

  • @siana1000
    @siana1000 9 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    You can read Buddha and his Dhamma By Dr B R Ambedkar. It has different story about why Buddha left his kingdom.

  • @ShaneyElderberry
    @ShaneyElderberry 11 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    All Buddhist sutras admire the acts of Buddha(s) and/or Bodhisattvas with intended focus. Some sects have and do worship specific bodhisattvas, just as some Christian sects worship Mary, Christ's mother. The point of relating Buddhism to Christianity to a supposed Western influenced audience that probably includes some Christians and people aware of its faith systems is only demonstrable for the purpose of the lecture. Some themes are incredibly similar, like Guanyin worship with Christ/Mary.

  • @vfgv4666tf
    @vfgv4666tf 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Of course, That is why I admitted beforehand that I am not an author on the subject of Buddhism per se, but rather the Indian context of what what 'karma' is which is where the basic concept comes from even though it might have a very different meaning for certain sects of Buddhism and very similar meaning to what I have described for others.

  • @ShaneyElderberry
    @ShaneyElderberry 11 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Please share the corrected information.

  • @monjeconbotas4636
    @monjeconbotas4636 11 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    As a westerner and a Buddhist priest following Japanese schools of thought (sects if you want to call them) I really like this lecture for the very basic and common public. However, I agree with some of the viewers there is some inaccuracy in the data offered mainly based in the fact the speaker is a little bit bias by his own opinions.

  • @BrownusGirl
    @BrownusGirl 12 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Great speaker.

  • @ShaneyElderberry
    @ShaneyElderberry 11 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The details of how they maintained their rule are different (as were the times, locations, and circumstance), but the authoritative conversion of the sovereign and his State are similar enough to make the comparison. No doubt, both men had councilors and considered the repercussions of conversion with pros and cons calculated. Ashoka and Constantine were not lone islands, they were really archipelagos, as are all influential autocratic figures.

  • @ShaneyElderberry
    @ShaneyElderberry 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think his point was asserting the proselytizing spirit of Asoka as an absolutist monarch. Exact persons are impossible to produce, so the effects of such a leader are relatable. It's not as though Asoka liquidated his military after becoming a Buddhist, he protected his reign and empire, and encouraged conversion. Because Constantine was not opposed to killing with Roman belief and Christian belief, that is what happened.

  • @ShaneyElderberry
    @ShaneyElderberry 11 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    To suggest a highly mystic religion has static descriptions and interpretations, as the youtube commenter Jarvinajoku has, is indeed inline with dogma. Such a suggestion assumes without question that other understandings of the Buddhist faith(s) are wrong; this is a sectarian belief/opinion. Japanese Buddhism is, of course sectarian. This doesn't mean that Professor Sharf is wholly incorrect, simply because he has described salient details of the Japanese Buddhist faith systems.

  • @vfgv4666tf
    @vfgv4666tf 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    As far as known their was no ' authoritative conversion ' of the state(as in 'the people').
    Yes,He did support Buddhism and did proselytize the religion for which the comparison can be made but again the point here is to make audience understand the difference before giving an analogy.

  • @AirSandFire
    @AirSandFire 12 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Can you be more specific and state which things he said are inaccurate?

  • @vfgv4666tf
    @vfgv4666tf 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Sorry if gave a reply to any of the comments not directed towards me.
    I am not used the whole discussion system for you tube comment section.

  • @illarraza
    @illarraza 11 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    "Nichiren a nut". Nuts are left to their own devices. They are ignored. Save for the Buddha, no Buddhist leader has encountered more persecutions than Nichiren and few have come to experience a greater popularity. I contend that one ignores Nichiren at his own peril. Conversely, those who follow the Master Nichiren enjoy wisdom and good fortune from ten thousand miles afar.

    • @brahilly
      @brahilly 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm late to this lecture Mark, so excuse me for commenting on your remark in an untimely manner.
      I agree with your complaint about Sharf's dumb characterization of Nichiren. As far as I'm concerned, and unlike many here, he's not a gifted teacher.
      However, Your "ten thousand miles afar" quote, which you didn't place in quotation marks, is somewhat immature and reveals an American tendency towards fundamentalism.

    • @illarraza
      @illarraza 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@brahilly Probably so. Hope I have matured a bit since then.

  • @tejusingh627
    @tejusingh627 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great king buddhist samrat ashoka 🇮🇳🙏🙏🙏
    Namo buddha 🙏🙏🙏

  • @ShaneyElderberry
    @ShaneyElderberry 11 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    In one hour? This is an improbable expectation. I've not found any faults in your observations, but these are out of place for such a short introduction. I would expect all these details to be explained in comprehensive outlines spanning four or more hours. I have no intention to simply squabble over details that interest specialists - in juxtaposition to this ~72 minute video. I appreciate your comments, but they might be more fitting to essays on Buddhism or an in-depth video series.

  • @vfgv4666tf
    @vfgv4666tf 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Well the point regarding easy accessibility for western audience does makes sense.But even when making such concessions the essence of the subject must not be diluted to the point where the student learning the subject thinks of it as nothing more than a copy/version of their own history/religion.

  • @vfgv4666tf
    @vfgv4666tf 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Also talking about the correct meaning of something does not mean supporting dogma .People can have different interpretations but that does not permit wrong propagating wrong definition of a philosophical thought.

  • @nirbhaynandan72
    @nirbhaynandan72 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    whatever these people don't understand or don't make sense to them they ASSUME IT! This man doing this a lot....and biases is a lot here....he seems to putting his understanding not what actually Buddhism is....using story according to your convenient!

  • @vfgv4666tf
    @vfgv4666tf 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Well if that is the argument than yes the whole discussion stops as japan is not India and vice verse. Both have different histories.
    But in that case a distinction must b e made when treating as subject such as this for which both civilizations have different meaning.

  • @ShaneyElderberry
    @ShaneyElderberry 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    But it is deterministic, since the nine or so levels surmised by certain Buddhist sects are said to be eventual by all karma beings (Mahayana derived sects). Indian religions outside of Buddhism were the inspiration for Karma, but that doesn't mean they follow the same path. On top of this, because some of the sects maintain the belief that Bodhisattvas will eventually provide salvation for all beings, then eventual salvation is determined by time, however long that may be for those believers.

  • @anjeevmaurya
    @anjeevmaurya 9 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    At many places factual data is wrong.....

  • @vfgv4666tf
    @vfgv4666tf 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    2.To term 'karma' as deterministic is also a fallacy.
    The philosophy 'karma' provides you with an option to change the course of your life(present and others) according to your actions meaning it gives you the choice of making your own destiny.

  • @ShaneyElderberry
    @ShaneyElderberry 11 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Agreed. This is an academic historian. Most of them do not fall into this problem.

  • @vfgv4666tf
    @vfgv4666tf 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    But the way in which the lecturer puts this point is belittles the difference between the two which is facially inaccurate.
    Also,why would a emperor liquidate the whole empire and military.I am not trying to suggest that Ashoka was the next Buddha or a paragon of all good virtues.He tried to follow his own beliefs and preach them but that does not make him equivalent to Constantine for whom the whole focus was to achieve his political goals through any means which included killing his own kin.

  • @vfgv4666tf
    @vfgv4666tf 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    3.Comparing Christianity to Buddhism so far as in they both have different sects,but failing to mention that story of Jesus is central to all the Church denominations and sects.No one strays away from that while in case of Buddhism it about the choice because of diff rent propensity of different individual.

  • @SachinKumar-lk4ey
    @SachinKumar-lk4ey 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good 👍💕

  • @Qwerty-z7v6z
    @Qwerty-z7v6z 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Shallow understanding and explanation of Buddhism,nevertheless good effort.

  • @mdamon06
    @mdamon06 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great lecture, wish he wouldnt of been taking open questions during it, just derailed the entire thing

  • @ShaneyElderberry
    @ShaneyElderberry 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Right, but we should remember that this is Japanese Buddhism (i.e. this includes esoteric Mikkyo), and has been filtered through at least 500 years of Chinese adaptation and reformulated beyond the clean recognition of its strong attributes in India, Sri Lank, and so on. In Japan, Avalokitesvara is a female/mother bodhisattva, whereas in India the same bodhisattva is male and a prince-like figure. Combine Shinto kami belief and Confucianism with Buddhism and you have a stew of beliefs in Japan.

  • @ShaneyElderberry
    @ShaneyElderberry 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    You do realize that he is a specialist, and that it is his career? Some people have done more than assimilate to the teachings of orthodox dogmas alone.

  • @hendrawijoyo4464
    @hendrawijoyo4464 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    TA PEI COU namo tee cang wang phusa ,namo kwan im phusa,amithofo
    大 悲 咒
    Maha Karuna Dharani
    NA MO HUA LA TA NA TUO LA YE YE
    南 無 喝 囉 怛 那 哆 囉 夜 耶 °
    Aku bersujud ke hadapan Triratna,
    NA MO O LI YE PHO LU CIE TI SUO PO LA YE
    南 無 阿 唎 耶 ° 婆 盧 羯 帝 ° 爍 缽 囉 耶 °
    Aku bersujud ke hadapan Yang Mahatahu,
    PHU THI SA TUO PHO YE MO HE SA TUO PHO YE
    菩 提 薩 埵 婆 耶 ° 摩 訶 薩 埵 婆 耶 °
    Bodhisattva, Makhluk Agung,
    MO HE CIA LU NI CIA YE
    摩 訶 迦 盧 尼 迦 耶 °
    Yang Maha pengasih,
    AN SA PO LA FA I SU TA NA TA SIE
    唵 ° 薩 皤 囉 罰 曳 ° 數 怛 那 怛寫 °
    Om, Beliau yang serba tak- kenal-gentar,
    NA MO SHI Cl LI TUO I MENG O LI YE
    南 無 悉 吉 栗 埵 伊 蒙 阿 唎 耶 °
    Aku bersujud dengan memasuki
    PHO LU Cl TI SE FO LA LING THUO PHO
    婆 盧 吉 帝 ° 室 佛 囉 楞 馱 婆 °
    Batin Yang Mahatahu,
    NA MO NA LA CIN CHE SI LI MO HE PO TUO SA MI SA PHO HO
    南 無 那 囉 謹 墀 ° 醯 唎 摩 訶 皤 哆 沙 咩 ° 薩 婆 阿
    Aku bersujud ke hadapan Beliau Yang Berleher-biru Yang Memiliki Kebajikan Agung, Demikian adanya.
    THA TOU SU PHENG O SE YIN SA PHO SA TUO
    他 豆 輸 朋 ° 阿 逝 孕 ° 薩 婆 薩 哆 °
    Memiliki Kemuliaan Tak-terkalahkan. Yang memberikan kebahagiaan kepada
    NA MO PHO SA TUO NA MO PHO CIE MO FA THE TOU
    那 摩 婆 薩 哆 ° 那 摩 婆 伽 ° 摩 罰 特 豆 °
    semua makhluk dar keluarga apa-pun di seluruh alam
    TA CE THA AN O PHO LU SI LU CIA Tl CIA LUO TI
    怛 姪 他 ° 唵 ° 阿 婆 盧 醯 ° 盧 迦 帝 ° 迦 羅 帝 °
    Demikian : Om, Yang Mahatahu Yang mengatasi dunia ketidakkekalan ini
    I SI LI MO HO PHU THI SA TUO SA PHO SA PHO MO LA MO LA
    夷 醯 唎 ° 摩 訶 菩 提 薩 埵 ° 薩 婆 薩 婆 ° 摩 囉 摩 囉 °
    Oh, Hari bodhisattva agung semua mustika
    MO SI MO SI LI THUO YIN Cl LU Cl LU CIE MENG
    摩 醯 摩 醯 唎 馱 孕 ° 俱 盧 俱 盧 羯 蒙 °
    Yang Berhati-agung,membuat kesuksesan, kesuksesan (bagi pembacanya),
    TU LU TU LU FA SE YE TI
    度 盧 度 盧 罰 闍 耶 帝 °
    Kemenangan yang gemilang,
    MO HO FA SE YE TI
    摩 訶 罰 闍 耶 帝 °
    kemenangan yang agung,
    THUO LA THUO LA TI LI NI SE FU LA YE
    陀 囉 陀 囉 ° 地 唎 尼 ° 室 佛 囉 耶 °
    Seru-sekalian-alam, waspada, waspadalah,
    CE LA CE LA MO MO FA MO LA MU TI LI
    遮 囉 遮 囉 ° 麼 麼 罰 摩 囉 ° 穆 帝 隸 °
    Guncang, guncanglah, bebaskan aku dari noda batin,
    I SI I SI SE NA SE NA
    伊 醯 伊 醯 ° 室 那 室 那 °
    Datang, datanglah, dengar, dengarlah
    O LA SENG FU LA SE LI
    阿 囉 僧 佛 囉 舍 利 °
    kegembiraan yang muncul.
    FA SA FA SENG FU LA SE YE
    罰 沙 罰 僧 ° 佛 囉 舍 耶 °
    Terjadilah, terjadilah dari awal,
    HU LU HU LU MU LA
    呼 嚧 呼 嚧 摩 囉 °
    awal yang baik,
    HU LU HU LU SI LI
    呼 嚧 呼 嚧 醯 利 °
    Esa, Esa, pergi,
    SA LA SA LA SI LI SI LI SU LU SU LU
    娑 囉 娑 囉 ° 悉 唎 悉 唎 ° 蘇 嚧 蘇 嚧 °
    bencana, bencana, iri, iri, lenyap, lenyap
    PU THI YE PHU PHI YE PHU THUO YE PHU THUO YE
    菩 提 夜 ° 菩 提 夜 ° 菩 馱 夜 ° 菩 馱 夜 °
    Cerah, cerahlah ; bangun, bangunlah
    MI TI LI YE NA LA CIN CHE TI LI SE NI NA
    彌 帝 唎 夜 ° 那 囉 謹墀 ° 地 利 瑟 尼 那 °
    Aku bersujud ke hadapan Beliau Yang Penuh Welas-asih, Yang Berleher-biru, Yang Patut Dipandang,
    PO YE MO NA SA PHO HO SHI THUO YE SA PHO HO
    婆 夜 摩 那 ° 娑 婆 訶 ° 悉 陀 夜 ° 娑 婆 訶 °
    Yang Tak kenal gentar, demikianadanya. Yang Gaib, demikian adanya.
    MO HO SHI THUO YE SA PHO HO
    摩 訶 悉 陀 夜 ° 娑 婆 訶 °
    Yang Maha- gaib, demikian adanya
    SHI THUO I I SE PO LA YE SA PHO HO
    悉 陀 喻 藝 ° 室 皤 囉 耶 ° 娑 婆 訶 °
    Beliau, Pertapa Yogi Gaib Yang Selalu mendengar, demikian adanya.
    NA LA CIN CHE SA PHO HO
    那 囉 謹 墀 ° 娑 婆 訶 °
    Yang Berleher-biru, demikian adanya.
    MO LA NA LA SA PHO HO
    摩 囉 那 囉 ° 娑 婆 訶 °
    Beliau Yang Laksana-banteng, demikian adanya.
    SHI LA SENG O MU CHE YE SA PHO HO
    悉 囉 僧 阿 穆 佉 耶 ° 娑 婆 訶 °
    Yangberwajah - singa,demikianadanya.
    SA PHO MO HO O SHI THUO YE SA PHO HO
    娑 婆 摩 訶 阿 悉 陀 夜 ° 娑 婆 訶 °
    Beliau yang memiliki kemampuan gaib agung, demikian adanya.
    CE CI LA O SHI THUO YE SA PHO HO
    者 吉 囉 阿 悉 陀 夜 ° 娑 婆 訶 °
    Beliau yang memiliki kegaiban cakra,demikian adanya.
    PO THUO MO CIE SHI THUO YE SA PHO HO
    波 陀 摩 羯 悉 陀 夜 ° 娑 婆 訶 °
    Pemegang Bunga - teratai, demikian adanya.
    NA LA CIN CHE PO CIE LA YE SA PHO HO
    那 囉 謹 墀 ° 皤 伽 囉 耶 ° 娑 婆 訶 °
    Pencipta Berleher- biru, demikian adanya.
    MO PHO LI SEN CIE LA YE SA PHO HO
    摩 婆 利 勝 羯 囉 夜 ° 娑 婆 訶 °
    Maha mulia nan agung yang penuh kasih sayang, pemurah, demikian adanya.
    NA MO HUA LA TA NA TUO LA YE YE
    南 無 喝 囉 怛 那 哆 囉 夜 耶 °
    Aku bersujud ke hadapan Triratna
    NA MO O LI YE PHO LU CIE TI SUO PO LA YE SA PHO HO
    南 無 阿 唎 耶 ° 婆 羅 吉 帝 ° 爍 皤 囉 夜 ° 娑 婆 訶 °
    Aku bersujud ke hadapan Yang Mahatahu, demikian adanya.
    AN SHI TIEN TU MAN TUO LA PA THUO YE SA PHO HO
    唵 ° 悉 殿 都 ° 漫 多 囉 ° 跋 陀 耶 ° 娑 婆 訶 °
    Om, semoga terjadilah semuanya yang baik karena Mantra ini, demikian . metta (alm hong tjong tjiang & huang shien yong)🙏🙏

  • @vfgv4666tf
    @vfgv4666tf 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    1.Comparing Asoka to Constantine is very disingenuous as Constantine conquered in the name of Christianity while Asoka did the opposite i.e he left the life of king and conquest in the name of Buddha.

  • @orientalmusicchannel
    @orientalmusicchannel 10 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    :)

  • @nationalist7347
    @nationalist7347 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This is always a biggest mistake to analyse Eastern traditions with western lens you always bound to misunderstanding.

  • @1001orpheus
    @1001orpheus 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    The shoguna? I doubt he watches his own lectures. But if he did he'd probably cringe.

  • @LamaKungaChoedak
    @LamaKungaChoedak 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    many inaccuracies

  • @wonderfullife737
    @wonderfullife737 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It’s not Budda, it’s Buddha, dh not just d

  • @badlucksoma
    @badlucksoma 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    yo