Cut-Off tool, Gear Hobs, Grinder Dust Collecting and a Funky Old Drill Press
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ย. 2024
- A recap on my Cut-off tool and plans for future videos - Including a 1918 friction Drill Drill Press
LINK to Previous Video on Cut-off Tool:
• Spring Cut-Off, A near...
Link to the cut off blade used: amzn.to/3YV6qWn
Link to measured drawings of this tool - REV. 3 (Includes AXA and both Dorian and Non-Dorian BXA Drawings)
drive.google.c...
NOTE FOR USING:
1) The feed rate I used was .0018 per turn and it seemed to work well.
2) RPM is set for the surface speed of the full diameter (very forgiving)
3) The tool angle was set to about 3-4-degrees in all my tests and it worked well (experiment)
4) Tool was grounds to about 5 or 6 degrees
5) The blade Stick-out needs to be 3/4" to 1" *
6) Oil is a must. The little needle tip bottle like I used in the video is ideal.
I know this seems counterintuitive but it works. When the blade is shorter it effects the amount of pressure needed to deflect the blade and it chatter.
I think you should keep the wood dust and metal dust separated, make a separate dust collection system for the grinder dust. Possible explosive situation by combining the two
I agree
Gorgeous drillpress - look forward to your upcoming projects
Thanks!
Well, I have a large Home made Bead blast Cabinet- and I kept burning up shop vac motors trying to suck the cloud of dust while blasting so you could see-
So I rigged up a 5-gal Lowes Bucket with the snap on lid, and put two PVC fittings in the lid, facing up, one ended just inside the lid, the other has a pipe that extends down into the bucket and just falls 1/8" short of touching the bottom of the bucket- The pipe that goes to the bottom, you attach INCOMING air and trash, the fitting that stops just under the lid you attach your suction source and fill the bucket 1/2 to 2/3's the way up with water, which you change periodically-
Basically I made a Bubbler BONG kind of thing, so all stuff goes thru WATER before progressing on, since doing this I have never burned up and other shop vac motor ever again in the past 10+ years in my bead blaster, where-as before I was burning up two a year? Bet it would stop sparks..........
The BONG collector! I like it 😜 the water bath is a idea.
I looked into making a metal/wood dust collector and cyclone a while ago and found out a few things, although I never actually made it. 1) use flexible metal conduit for the metal. Supposedly any hot metal cools at this stage. 2) route the conduit through a box where larger metal pieces will collect before it reaches the cyclone.
Maybe a system more like a grader (used for grading stone) would work.
That drill press looks like it needed rescuing, so looking forward to seeing how that works out.
There is no issue with large metal partials. Its for the belt grinder and wire brush. I think I need to get a separate blower and to not use the larger cyclone.
Looking forward to seeing the drill press restoration.
Have a Jesus filled day everyone
Greg in Michigan
Thanks
Really interesting drill press. Dixon ZTR lawn mowers used this concept, and they called it "Cone Drive". the concept goes back to the early days of sawmilling also. It's basically what variable ratio transmissions are designed on. As far as the cyclone collectors we used them on our Flame spray and Plasma spray machines. We sprayed molten ceramic powder onto rotating ceramic parts. Because of the abrasiveness the steel was armor plate, and the concept is the heavy particles fall to the bottom and the light particles are filtered via a bag house system. The bag houses and blowers were a substantial distance from the intake to allow cooling of the hot particles before hitting the bags. Bags were pulsed with air blast on a timer system. Sawdust should not be abrasive or hot, so the extra travel distance is not necessary. The tweaking of tools such as the cut off tool holder and gear hob are excellent content. I just finished making a drive dog for a gear shaft so I can re-machine the teeth on an antique lathe I am rebuilding. In doing so I have an idea swirling in my head of making some mandrels from discarded shafts from electric motor armatures... Most of those shafts are already center drilled and ground to press fit dimensions of ball bearings. So why not make good use of them instead of just throwing them away. Armatures come in all sizes from automotive fuel pumps /starter motors/alternators and single-phase motors. Sure could save a lot of machining time by re using them.
The armatures are an excellent idea! I've fixed a few broken teeth on gears and it's worked very well. I used to original teeth to index from. The replacement teeth looked perfect but I always hear them while running. Gears are very critical. .002 or .003 off and the gear is noisy. Cyclones separators work amazingly well and as long as the dust that gets through it goes into a bag and not a drum of fine well airyated saw dust. I think I need to use another blower and keep them separate. I always liked the Dixon drive system. Cones are really better than a disk. The surface speed within the contact area is a lot closer to the same which allows you to have more contact area. If I remember right the Dixon has a 2" contact. I think a 2" wide drive wheel on a disk would burn up.
I used a plastic traffic cone as the collector. Works very well for me.
Cool, that would work well.
I’m speaking from ignorance and guesswork here, so my comments may be of no use, but… surely your grinders are producing a mixture of metal dust and carborundum grit. That makes it a tricky mix for recycling, and a nasty mix to have floating in the air in your workshop, and also, if not collected, a horrible problem that has to be swept up or you tread it into the house. I wouldn’t want that mixed with wood dust (which can be recycled or pressed into wood briquettes for burning). So a separate collection system would be my choice - though, as I say - from ignorance. Your stuff is always good and makes me think. Or wish! Les in UK 🇬🇧
Yes, the small cyclone would capture the grinding dust before it got to the wood. The would cyclone would only be for the vacuum. Yes it is nasty stuff, makes a mess.
@@WinkysWorkshop Powdered aluminum is one of the "most explosive " ingredients in the making of non Nuclear bombs. Grain dust is another. It would certainly be prudent to put a spark arrester in line with the intake.
@@terrycannon570 Yes aluminum is bad. I think with a separate system putting a little water in the dust bin would solve this issue. Its a shame to not utilize the blower in the woodworking collector but it's not worth the risk.
Mark,
How about using the cyclone vacuum and diverting it into a split system. One for wood, one for metal.
Also, what is a good email address for you?
I have a copy of Craftsman 1932 tool catalog and it shows your bandsaw.
I replied to your cover video and you responded back.
Thanks for the videos.
Congratulations on your retirement. What was your profession?
It sort if is two streams. It would be like a pre-separator. If there was a way to divert the exhaust of my woodworking cyclone I'd feel fairly safe. So far the only safe way I see is to get a separate blower.
I've been retired for almost 7 years now. Glad to be away from the job. It was actually a good job but I had enough. I retired from a Web Offset printing company that printed magazines. I ran a press for a while but the last 15 years was working as a troubleshooter resolving machine problems. Most the time this involved redesigning machines. You might say it was an engineering jobs but I have no degree. I learned a LOT about machining, machine design, CAD and about specific areas in printing. I think I had my hands in just about every aspect involving the presses and stacking machines. It was overwhelming. Send an email to winkysworkshop@GMX.com
@@WinkysWorkshop
For the metal dust collector, why not put some liquid in the bottom? Not sure what the liquid would be, probably water treated with some rust inhibitor? Might introduce additional humidity into the extraction system.
I agree... although I'm not going to use the woodworking for the vacuum source.
Looking forward to seeing the gear hobber project very interesting
Thanks, me too!
excelente video , saludos desde argentina. me podras explicar como ubicas el centro de la herramienta con la reglita¿¿¿¿
Sí, se coloca la regla entre la punta de la herramienta y la pieza de trabajo. Si la regla está en posición vertical, la herramienta está centrada. No es necesario que sea perfecta, solo aproximadamente vertical.
O.K.@@WinkysWorkshop
I'll be looking forward to seeing the gear hob project; sounds interesting.
Have to agree with others, mixing metal dust extraction with wood is not a good thing. Bet your insurance company wouldn't like it either!
I was rather shocked to see that you had put the Hardinge lathe up for sale! But I'm sure you have your reasons.
Maybe right on the wood/meta; dust. The lathe is simple, I need the space and almost never use it. If I was making small parts only it might be useful but honestly, the South Bend will do the same.
Edit: deleted my electromagnet idea it wouldn't catch the wheel dust. How much dust is there to collect, is it mainly just a problem with the sparks? I'd be happy with that.
There is tons of dust from the grinder and wire brush and spark are not attracted by a magnet.
Mate, I would look at a water trap for the dust collector as aeriated saw dust and a spark may go off like a spark in a flour mill. Great to see a gear hob and the variable speed drill press. If ever you ever get interested in tangential tools for the lathe that would be interesting as they are suited to small machines like your cut off tool. Tangential fly cutters work well too.
The water trap would work well I think. However I think I will keep the two systems separarte. Can you link me to an example of a Tangential tool
Hello Winky, thanks for sharing, I will look forward to the new drill rebuild video's, cheers from me. 😃👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks 👍
Fire risk. Enough said.
Yep... I think the best approach is a separate blower
Wood saw dust can get on fire by itself - for example, if it gets dump. For metal dust it would be sufficient to attach just tin can to grinder. Cyclone sounds really cool but I believe it is overkill for grinder.
I wanted a way to collect grinder dust as well as the wire brush and buffer. I have the setup you described for the belt grinder and it catches about 80% but the wire brush and buffer will need more air flow. I've decided to keep the two systems separate.
Yep, fires aren't fun, you would need some kind of filter material or magnets to catch the metal, Kurtis from Cutting Edge Engineering channel just built a big one for his Spray Weld setup, love the old Drill Press, i'm trying to find a big old heavy one to build a Slotting Machine..
I'll check out Cutting Edge Engineering! Slotting? For what?
@@WinkysWorkshop Keyways and internal Splines etc, like a vertical Shaper..
@@65cj55 I've done that but most drill presses are a bit wimpy
01996 SIP METAL DUST EXTRACTOR / COLLECTOR 230VOLT👍.I had a idea using electromagnetic .
Looks like a stand alone cyclone. Yeah... a magnet might help but rust and aluminum might be an issue.
You'll need some sort of spark arrestor, perhaps a series of screens at different angles, as well as a shield to force the metal dust downward. I'm sure you will figure something out.
The small separator will be very effective for separating but I have to be absolutely certain. Screens might work... just not positive.
@@WinkysWorkshop the screen holes would need to vary in size from one screen to the next. Perhaps sheet metal with a bunch of holes could act as the screen. The key is to slow down the hot metal particles enough to cool them down, perhaps a combination of screen and an assortment of baffles for the metal particles to hit. I have the idea of how it could work locked in my head, I just don't have a good way of conveying those ideas, my apologies. I'm more like the build it and try it sort.
The drill press drive system works like a snowblower and some lawn mowers.
I have a vintage Delco 1/4HP motor which may be underpowered, but would look right with the machine. I think it is a repulsion type. Starter windings within the stator. Runs well. Oiled bearings. 1750rpm. You can tell the age because the voltage on the nameplate is 110V. Happy to send this to you if you can use it. If you are interested, let me know in a reply and I will email some pictures.
I have a Steel City grinder purchased back in 2015 sometime after they went out of business. It has dust collector hose designed into the grinder wheel housing. At the time I thought this would be handy to mount to the shop vac. I then watched the sparks from grinding and decided I did not want to take the risk of a spark and small dust particles deciding to get together can cause a fire, or worse a bit of a boom. I removed the dust collector hose.
Some time back you showed an inexpensive tachometer for one of your machines. I purchased one after seeing the video. Works well. If the Hall effect sensor signal is "readable" by an Arduino, this would be an easy solution to part of the future project. I can program Arduinos if you need help.
Dave.
Thanks aa bunch for the offer on the motor but i think you're right, a bit under powered. Also I have an old 1/4 HP I think. I'm using an Arduino but you're right, the halls effect would work. It would need to be a gears to provide a much higher resolution though.
Wow! The gear hobbing project sounds interesting. That's going to be one to watch.
Fingers crossed! Mechanically I'll have no problem but the electrical part I struggle with.
Mark as a volunteer fireman back in the day I would highly recommend not mixing the metal shavings with the sawdust , your asking for a fire. Back when I was a volunteer fireman the number one cause of a house fire was a dryer where the lent trap hadn't been cleaned. Hot metal chips in sawdust is very risky. It could lay there for hours smoldering then ignite . And wow do I remember the old snapper lawnmowers that's the only mower my mother would own and boy did I hate them just for there clutch design . she kept them in business buying the round rubber disk. I do believe she could burn one up every week . And they were a pain to change. But I got good at it as many as she made me change. Lol. I would change the new drill press to a pulley drive. On my 3 bench grinders I have metal hoses coming off the back of them going into a five gallon metal bucket sitting on the floor behind them. Just a though.
Yeah, I agree, a separate dust collector. As for the Snapper, i had a 30 HiVac riding mower for about 10 years and the drive never failed. I remember looking at it and thinking, that is going to fail someday but it never did. I wonder if there was a pressure setting adjusted wrong on your moms?
A lot of walk behind snowblowers use that drive setup too. The advantage is you can change speed on the fly. @@WinkysWorkshop
@@patrickoquin7215 Fortunately I have never needed a snow blower but I have heard they have this drive.
My HF cyclone is mounted on top of a Dewalt vacuum and works great. I vacuum cold metal chips and wood sawdust off my Bridgeport all the time. I’ve never had any problem with the mixture. In fact I’ve never even thought about it being dangerous. Now sparks with sawdust is a different story. Don’t do it!
I was wanting higher volume but good information. Thanks
Recently, twice this year I’ve seen metal containers that catch and contain wood sanding dust that hadn’t been touched in days catch fire.
No metal sparks, just combustion on its own so I can’t say if fine metal dust would do the same but after seeing this I will always utilize the dust pan .
Yeah, I'm not taking chances. I've decided NOT to use the larger cyclone. If I do this I'll use a separate blower and cyclone.
About your metal dust collector. That is kind of how my father lost his garage. He was cutting ceramic tile with his table saw, he thought that he had all of the sawdust cleaned out of everything. He would clean it after each day of cutting. Well one night they got woke up to the garage being on fire. a piece of tile had found some sawdust and caught on fire enough to get other things on fire and that was the end of his wood shop, truck and all of his tools, also the greenhouse which was attached to the garage. I wish you luck with doing that, but I don't see how you are going to make it work. Maybe to use a strong magnet to collect it, and have a way to easily clean off the magnet. Electronic magnet maybe.
I've decided not to use the larger cyclone. If I do this I'll use a separate blower and cyclone.
I've got a few gear Hobbs and a couple old old motors.need a address..
Wow... send me an email at winkysworkshop@GMX.com
Definitely interested! winkysworkshop@GMX.com
Utilize a pre-filter setup, one like you would find on an exhaust fan for over a stove...(?!) You'll probably have to design it.
Maybe... but I think maybe a risk.
👍👍😎👍👍
🙂
Will the gear hob just cut one tooth at a time for a spur gear or will it all spin somehow and cut helical teeth?
A gear hob (cutter) has cutting teeth arranged like a screw around a cylinder kind of like a tap. The mill head is tilted to a specified angle and rotating gear blank is fed into the cutter. In this arrangement the gear will be a straight spur gear. You can also cut helical gear by also tilting the gear blank. I'm building mine just to cut straight gears. The required tilting spindle is more involved to build and I don't have much need for helical gears. In a pinch I can shim and tilt the gear blank and spindle.
Hi ! Make a small stand alone dust setup with a separate vacuum instead of the wood setup. No fire worries and less mess for the wood setup.
There would never be metal getting to the wood collector but never say never. I agree, a separate blower.
I have a vacuum for the garage that collects the dust and metal in a homer bucket. The vacuum comes from a horrible freight vacuum cleaner which I almost never change the filter on. In a wooden box I have the homer bucket and the vacuum hose from the outside world (the one sucking up the metal and dirt) comes in the top of the box aimed at the center of the homer bucket. At the other end of the box also on the top is the hose to the vacuum cleaner. Since I am vacuuming mostly metal it is too heavy to need a centrifuge action as the metal hits the bottom of the bucket just straight on and stays there. Any wood dust that gets through mostly stays there as well because the oily metal chips stick to the wood or vice versa. I empty it about once a year. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.
Thats kind of the direction I'm heading except I want more air volume. I plan to put a shroud around my wire brush and buffer wheels and i need to volume. The belt grinder would need less vacuum. I'm thinking a 1hp blower with the cyclone.
A workshop isn't complete without at least 27 drill presses :)
Wow am I way behind!
Haha... I tend to agree, more than one is good
Me too
I bet you lay awake at night thinking of all this cool stuff you do!
it has kept me awake but thats when I did it for a living .
I made one and it works great.
I know it will work well. Did you tie yours to a wood dust collector?
Grizzly sells some metal dust collectors. No cyclone, but you may want to see what you can borrow from the design. They also sell replacement filters.
I've seen them but never the insides. In the shop at the company I used to work at they had a 12 x 60 belt grinder for steel with a blower and bag. They never had a fire but there was also nothing in the bag flammable. The bag looked like cloth but i never looked closely at it.
In theory you could connect the exhaust of the metal cyclone to the wood dust collector pipework however it would need a spark arrestor between the two to control the ignition hazard. It would typically be a wire mesh or pad, however that's going to need cleaning to maintain operation and should ATEX certified this side of the pond, I believe that's HAZLOC where you are.
However considering the consequences of a dust cloud explosion can be very lively (look it up on YT if you aren't familiar) I would keep the two separate for the incremental cost of a shop vac.
That would be my choice having worked in the chemical and O&G industry as a Process Engineer for quite a while now.
I think a separate collector is the way to go. Hazloc/Atex..?. they will never see my home shop. OSHA would have field day in my shop. Thankfully they are not allowed.
@@WinkysWorkshop 🤣 nobody wants a visit from OSHA, seriously though separate systems is the way to go, I use one of the small plastic cyclones from scamazon with a shop vac, does a great job on separating and keeping the vac almost clean
@@Paul-FrancisB I agree, cyclones work well and keeping it separate is better. I worked in Printing most my life. In the late 80's I was begging for better guards. Exposed rollers with a surface speed or 1800 FPM that would take half your arm in a split second. Then in mid 90s they changed the rules on guards. Printers had to meant specific guard requirements or face drastic fines. Common sense went out the window and sadly there was no significant change in injuries. Some of the new guard created more hazard! I told to modified a guard one time and argued that it would create a pinch hazard. The supervisor said, do it anyway. When I completed the modification I went at got the supervisor and told him to look at it. He came out to the press and said, "wonderful". He then proceeded to lay his arm on the conveyor with the new guard and it took a plug of skin out of his arm. What flipped me out is that I took the guard off while he was at the hospital and when I came in the next day the guard was again installed. It was more important to meet the osha guidelines than actually have a safe machine.
@@WinkysWorkshop that is a great example where just following the "rules" can lead to a false sense of security. It also explains why you did such a good job with the band saw restoration for example. Thanks for taking the time to share your experience and the entertaining videos.
@@Paul-FrancisB The false sense of security was part of the problem but there were a few other factors involved as well. Part of the issue was that adjustments on the machines were covered by interlocked guards so people would go to great extents to get around guards. Printing is a complex process and you can not simply turn off a press and then turn in one. There was a sequence involved and a lot of time and waste. People would do what was needed to avoid doing this. So poorly designed guards were a huge part of the problem. Another problem was a changing work force. A lot of cell phone experts that had never turned a bolt in their lives. They simply did not see the risks involved with the machinery. A danger that seemed totally obvious to many simply did not seem dangerous to others.
I would definitely keep the wood dust and metal dust separate due to fire risk. You could use a separate metal body shop vac (without bags) on your cyclone so that it is a stand alone unit that should have no issues with sparks etc. going into it.
Thanks for the update on the cut off tool. I have been busy building another workshop, but I have just started building a cut off tool holder from your plans. Of course I have mentioned you and your site again in this video. It is for my larger lathe that uses the 250-201 tool holders. Ill let you know when the video is out. Thanks again for all your testing and the plans.
Thanks on the cut-off tool. Yes, let me know how it works out. I agree about keeping them separate although I'm not too worried about the shop vac being metal. Right now I'm thinking a blower with a cyclone and no filter. Metal separates very well.
Purchase a used Shop Vac at a garage sale to collect the grinder dust. No fire hazard!
I'd like higher volume but yeah... I need a separate collector
Run a shopvac through a cyclone for your metal dust, maybe ending in a metal box with a furnace filter to catch the dust.
I find the driving system(9:00) very interesting to simplify the gear train of the lathe.Thank you,Mark.
I think the drive is interesting but has some limitations. I suspect slippage might be an issue but I'm going to find out.
I would guess that a few fine screens at the vacuum port to the system would make a fine spark arrestor. Seems to work on dirt bikes and chain saws.
You might be right... it might also restrict air flow. I think a separate collector is the best aproach
If you put heavy coarse steel wool, very course, as a filter farther down stream that would stop any sparks. If you use really fine steel wool that could catch on fire.
I've decided to go with a separate blower and keep the systems separate.
You could consider installing a water mist generator to reduce the. Static.That is just as critical as the actual dust itself as far as flame. I would also recommend putting in an adjustable air intake gate at the vertical pipe where it turns into horizontal, this way you could adjust the amount of suction so it is just enough to do the job. That would reduce the chance of going into your main system. Depending on how the mist system would be added, you could also have additional collection system for any water that accumulated. The biggest thing you have going for you is the vertical distance of the pipe before it hits the main line. You could test your set up by installing a Temporary camera in the system at several locations then Generate more sparks than any normal operation to see Exactly what is going on.
Sounds kinda scary 😬
Mark, your cyclone separator will probably work with enough space and air flow for the sparks to burn up before reaching any area of the dust system where wood dust is --- but why risk it. Use an inexpensive shop vac to power your new cyclone and there are no risks.
I need more air flow than a shop vac but yeah... not going to risk it
We use dust collectors on our large indistrial grinders. The collector oem recommended a long pipe riser (20 ft high) and a 180 degree turn back down to the collector. We have never had a fire on those collectors.
Interesting... I think I'll go with a separate blower with water in the tank
I think a stand alone dust extractor is the way to go. All it would take is the right spark to end up in the sawdust and it could smolder for hours until it ignites.
I tend to agree. Thanks
I know nothing about metal dust collection, but a friend of mine (professional luthier) has set fire to his wood dust collection system several times with embers coming off his inverted pin router. So, even wood can set fires. Particularly insidious as ember lands in fuel and has a stiff breeze blowing on it!
Aggressive pin routing! But good point. So far I have never had a fire and the cyclone is about 23 years old. Still I don't want to push my luck. I'll use separate blower.
How about this on your dust collector:
Proceed as planned, with your cyclone behind the grinders, but add a *large* neodymium magnet on the outside of the dust pipe after the cyclone, to capture any metal that makes it through the cyclone.
It could be designed such that it could periodically be checked for buildup and removed, dumping the fine particles out a clean-out port.
I like the magnet idea however aluminum and rust are not very magnetic. I think the only safe method is to use a separate collector.
WINKY, You be the judge:: "Make Everything Workshop - Make Everything Workshop A Dust Collector For Your Metal Shop! The Knifemaker’s Dream Tool!"
I agree, it would be
I’m sure my opinion is the same as everyone else, make the two separate from each other. When I finally get power to my barn, I plan to put my wood shop and my metal shop in there, side by side but separate dust collection.
My opinion too. Not worth taking the chance
the drill press drive system looks like the system in a snowblower for driving the wheels
Fortunately we don't need s snow blower here very often so I have never seen one up close but others have said the same.