Amazon Vine Income The IRS & What To Do About It
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ค. 2023
- Hey Viners! In today's video, I will explain what the IRS informed me about Vine Income.
This is my experience and what my conversation with 5 IRS agents went like.
This video is for informational purposes only and for you to take pieces of this to your accountant or CPA.
I have finally gotten my questions answered and I will apply some of what they said going forward.
I hope this helps you with what ever you choose to do moving forward with your tax time in the future.
#amazonvine #amazonvinereview #vinetaxes
Disclaimer: The information shared on this channel is based on my personal experience and should be used for educational purposes only. I am not a financial or tax professional, and the content I provide should not be considered as financial or tax advice.
Please consult with a certified professional for personalized advice tailored to your specific situation. Any action you take based on the information provided on this channel is at your own risk. I make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, suitability, or validity of any information shared. By watching this channel, you acknowledge and agree that I am not responsible for any losses or damages that may occur as a result of the use of the information provided.
I just spoke with a tax adviser from Turbo Tax (an actual tax adviser, not a customer service employee), and she confirmed basically everything in this video as being correct. She said that Amazon should NOT be sending 1099-NECs out indicating in box 1 (Nonemployee compensation) as income, and instead, it should be labeled as "Other income". Further, she confirmed that I would label this "income" as a hobby so that this amount does not go against my earned income for the year, nor would I be taxed for it. Additionally, she said that if the IRS ever came back and questioned me about this, that I would simply write a letter stating that I am not an Amazon employee, there is no contractual obligation between me and Amazon as a self-proprietor, nor a legal agreement as far as me being an Amazon employee. I did not mention this video in my conversation with her, this was information she provided on the basis of me describing the Vine program and my role in it.
@tracy1190 - 👏👏 So happy you took the time to get advice to see what will better suit you with this tax form from Amazon. I used to work with Turbotax, and they are very thorough regarding finding information about your problem and giving you the best solution per the current tax code. I'm delighted you found a solution. Thanks for the update!! 💚
Thank you!!!!!!!!
So should we file it? Would I get on trouble if I don't? I went over 5,000 in eta last year..
@bishibibones6070 From my knowledge, you are always required to file a tax return. State wise, everywhere is different, but pretty sure the same understanding applies.
This is MIND BLOWING that you bring up that Amazon has no legal authority to issue a 1099. I think you might be legally right. I'm sending this to my lawyer. Congrats on figuring it out and thanks for clueing the rest of us in to your conversation.
I'm just a lover of research and I am happy you found something I stated to be useful for yourself possibly. Please share (if you remember) any information you come across (IRS publications included) to add to my thoughts for others to look into as well.
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess Yep, we all have to help each other. Yeah me too on the research. And I love the law....
By the way my lawyer mentioned that he has viewed your vids and was appreciative of this one as he hadn't seen it yet. YAY YOU!! He's very ...... whats the right word....... professionally provoked/interested in the whole vine thing from a tax attorney point of view. He was aware of the legal basis for what you said though he is going to continue to hit MY case from a different direction than that Amazon doesn't have ownership of the items as that is only one of the many problems with this. But here is a blurb from an email this morning about this vid from him.
"IN order for Amazon to claim the goods they shipped you, should be compensation; they must be part of an explicit exchange for your past, present, or future service. I have asked repeatedly for you to provide me with a contract indicating the terms of this exchange. You do not have one. ...
You are neither an employee nor an independent contractor of Amazon. You have no contract with them. Nothing they sent you was for past, present or future services. Therefore, nothing they sent you may be considered compensation, which is the only thing one reports on a 1099-NEC. ...
It makes more sense to attack the validity of the 1099-NEC and portray it as inherently flawed across multiple dimensions."
So we're still on what I said in my video for me plus some other things surrounding that mindset and law constellation.
I've heard that position as well, but I really wanted to find a way to relay to the IRS when filing that this 1099 shouldn't have been generated for me and this income they are claiming isn't valid.
Plus, if I'm wrong, I welcome the IRS to show me where per the tax law and then I'll shutup 🤣
Most would tell me that 'If it's on a 1099, you have to recognize it as income' and that doesn't sit well with me.
No care to my challenge of this 1099, just take the paper and follow what's to be expected. Nah!
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess I agree with you totally. There is so much wrong with this whole tax thing. But in the end we got the items...even if we found them on the street it's an acension to wealth (that is what they call it) and technically we're required to file on that. Did they tell you what law allows to just write it off completely?? I am eaten up with curiosity.
I know, and that's what makes me mad because I read the law and the reason it was enacted, and it frustrated me more. 😂
The agent in the underwriting Department who gave me the steps on how to submit everything to write it off never mentioned a direct law. However, I did ask how this was possible, and the reason he provided was I received a 1099 that had an amount that was incorrect, and Amazon was unwilling to correct it for me.
That reasoning sounds outlandish because if that's the case, anybody could do that. Plus it sounds to simple and easy to just not pay on 1099 income like that. I can't say if people have been doing that or not, but for him to provide those direct steps using those forms for me to challenge the amount placed on that 1099 gives me a feeling of .. maybe this is how it goes, but let's see how this plays out.
I went to the IRS website trying to find a law that coincided with what he stated. I couldn't find one either for it or against it, but I am waiting to see what they say since I submitted the additional tax forms with my written statement and I am waiting to see what they send me because this will be reviewed by a person, not a machine.
1. Without fighting anything, if you read what is on an official 1099-NEC form in the fine print details, it specifically states if this is a sporadic or "hobby" activity and not self employment income, you should claim the NEC on Schedule 1 as Other income rather than as business income. This reduces the tax burden from around 50% (self employment sucks yo) to whatever your normal tax bracket % is as it's lumped with your standard income. But yeah thanks IRS for allowing this form to be used for things it shouldn't be used for and then saying claim it not as the thing it is.... Not like you don't have enough forms that adding one more would hurt. Of course, this should probably be on a MISC not NEC, but that brings us too...
2. Amazon is in fact breaking the law here, and every single Vine user who is NOT a self employed influencer (in which case it could be an NEC) should be filing a report with the IRS. Amazon should be separating out the SE influencers doing this as a job from just random participants just doing it for kicks as part of the sign up program but they are not. Their failure, or on purpose? Well the terms also say you receive FREE products, so they are lying to the program participants or lying to the IRS claiming this is paid compensation. Again, file a report. I also found nothing anywhere from the IRS about claiming random goods as "payment" being anything that is officially taxable. Straight up, 1099 forms of any sort are for actual monetary compensation, so again Amazon is lying to the IRS by filing these forms and needs to be held accountable. Why? Well they are in fact shifting the tax burden of a portion of their business to thousands of users in this scam, so it's just another case of big business trying to abuse vague portions of the tax code to make more profits at the expense of everyone else. All so the owner can build phallus rockets.
Go to apps.irs.gov/app/digital-mailroom/referrals/ and file your incident with the IRS. I uploaded a PDF of the Vine information page and my 1099 along with calling out the key violations:
"If you are completing the information as a business, use the name that appears on the top line of the address on your CP575A notice from the IRS."
- I am not a business and as such did not supply business information
"What is Amazon Vine?
Amazon Vine is a program that enables a select group of Amazon customers to post opinions about newly released items to help their fellow customers make educated buying decisions. Customers are invited to become Amazon Vine Voices based on the trust they have earned in the Amazon community for writing accurate and insightful reviews. Amazon Vine provides members with free copies of products that have been submitted to the program by participating brands."
- No payment, FREE copies of products.
"As stated in the Vine Voice Participation Agreement Amazon employees are not eligible."
- So I'm not an employee, and I have not been paid, and I'm not a business.
That is very true. but didn't apply to my scenario in my video.
I appreciate your thoughts on this. Like many other people, I was unaware of the tax implications of reviewing Amazon products when I signed on, or I would have thought more carefully about what I chose to review from the beginning.
There are some helpful Reddit threads I encountered after the fact that provide history on the Amazon and IRS debate regarding the tax status of Vine reviewers. Apparently, it's actually the IRS that required Amazon to start sending out 1099-NECs to Vine reviewers sometime around 2015-16, and Amazon fought it. I have yet to find official documentation of this, although it seems credible.
That tax liability, of course, skews the whole the Vine Program, too, since in-the-know reviewers are less likely to review items that are risky in terms of estimated value vs. perceived value. I'm less like to review items "for fun" (e.g., that box of cocktail umbrellas) if I know there are taxes to pay if I do.
This has been thee most insightful information regarding legal tax implications & Amazon Vine. Thank you so much for your time to contact the IRS, which I know is consuming at best. I have bookmarked your video along with making notes about what you stated for the upcoming tax year. In addition, I contacted my CPA and explained it all to her. She too was blown away that Amazon is sending anyone 1099-NEC's without contracts or agreements stating we are Independent Contractors for them, which we are NOT. As such, we will follow the IRS's advice given to you until at such time the IRS contacts Amazon and straightens this mess out with them to stop sending 1099-NEC's to Vine reviewers. Who knows maybe there will be a class action at some point as so many Vine reviewers have paid in taxes, along with self-employment taxes, when they were not required to. Bad Amazon!
Thank you very much! I really hope more people would take the time to ask questions instead of following random internet people.(including me 🤣) It never costs to ask questions, just takes a bit of time to get the answers ❤️
I was just invited to join Amazon Vine and after reading all the tax horror stories online, I was very scared about ordering anything because I didn't want to end up in a terrible financial situation where I owed thousands of dollars to the IRS. Thank you so much for the time and effort you put in to get these answers for the rest of the US Vine community. I find it absolutely preposterous that the US is the only country where Vine operates where the reviewers are taxed but it's not surprising seems as how Uncle Sam is the most greedy of them all.
Is TH-cam the only place that you have this tutorial posted? I worry that when I need it for 2023 taxes that it will have been censored out or removed by the authorities that be who do not want us to have this information.
I'm very happy to provide helpful information for Viners to do what's best for them dueing tax time.
If ever any of my videos are removed/censored, I'll update everyone who follows me via community post as well.
I am currently uploading my videos to my blog (including this one) and just in case you can check there.
blog: www.moneystrugglesuccess.com
Thanks for watching!
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess Thank you so much! I just want to add that you are a beautiful person, inside and out! It takes a certain caliber of human being to not only accomplish all that you have but be so humble and kind in the process. Sending positive energy your way. :)
Thank you so much for your kind words! I really appreciate you for this 💛
You deserve it!
I just wanted to ask you something from the seller’s perspective, as there was some information that I came about regarding promotional items. From my understanding, the items that we receive as vine voices are promotional items that are directly owned by the companies who offer the products on Vine. When looking up tax law surrounding promotional items and taxes, it appears that the seller would be responsible for paying the taxes on these items. Has that been your experience on the seller side or have you entered into the vine program as a seller? Just curious what, if any, experience you have with this. The specific case that kept popping up as precedent was Cincinnati Reds, LLC v. Testa, Ohio concerning this matter.
As a seller, I see many brands gripe about Viners not reviewing their products and or not picking their products. As of yet, I havent seen anyone ask questioms regarding taxes for giving away their products through the vine program.
Sellers are just told they would need to provide free products to Vine voices inorder to use the Vine program. As a business myself, I can only assume they could be claiming these as a loss (I've seen these words used) of inventory. I don't deal with inventory so I don't have much knowledge of this topic.
I did come across something on the IRS website about the owners handling the taxes, but it was a short paragraph with very little context. This is what peaked my interest to do more research because its just wasn't smelling right!
For everyone arguing the merits of this video, the worst that can happen is she gets audited. The IRS contacts her and she goes through correspondences, and if the IRS says she's wrong, she pays taxes that she would have otherwise paid. The penalties may be some late interest payments, but that shouldn't be that much. And, if that was all there was to that, I would say everyone should give this a try. And contrary to what someone else said, the IRS doesn't go back forever years in an audit. Most audits have a look back period of just 3 years, and in some rare instances, a look back of 6 years. That's really not that bad if you mostly take the standard deduction and have regular income.
As simple as that.
Lol really you want to get audited by the IRS. That is terrible advice.
@@chadjackson5113 Selection for an audit does not always suggest there's a problem. In my scenario, what was stated above would be the likely recourse.
At this point, you're just commenting because you don't agree and that's fine!
As you said everyone's tax situation is different who cares if she decides she'll take the risk of an audit. it's her business what she wants to do based on the research incredible information that she's found in her situation.
here's the deal she has stated multiple times this is her unique situation, consult tax officials, call the IRS yourself, shes simply sharing her situation because it can some people could go and investigate this further and possibly get it cleared with the IRS as well for their tax situation. if someone tried to claim her video and only her video as a reason why they didn't do their due diligence and just decided not to pay taxes or get it cleared then that's on them. she disclaimers it many times in the video pin comment at the top second comment at the top multiple times throughout the comment thread it just feels like you want to be right calling her irresponsible is ridiculous
Tysm for all this info!! You have saved me a boatload of time and trouble ♡
You are so welcome!
Thank you. I never heard of the Vine voice program until it was offered to me tonight. After looking into it the best I could on short notice, I decided to give it a try. Obviously the tax situation is the concern for me because I haven't needed to file taxes in a number of years, being on social security with no other income. If this turns out to be super stressful for me re taxes, I'll need to back out. If it's something I can navigate with little stress, I'm very thankful for this opportunity. Again, thank you.
You're very welcome.
100% True. There is NO employment contract, no pay for service, there is NO obligation that we will leave a review, overstated value by like 200% or 80% total garbage.
I've been saying this all along, and did a ton of research to be very clear about the law, and nearly everyone thinks I'm spreading dangerous information, and that I'm crazy. I know it's easy to just let others tell you what to do, but having worked in government myself, and in non-profits that work with governments, and just generally been an activist since I was a teenager in the 80's, (and having been screwed over by my employer claiming I was a contract worker) I'm very familiar with standing up for people's legal rights. So I'm really, really glad to hear others also speaking out about the problem. Thanks!
I don't understand the "Overstated value" Part? Most the products I look at on vine are listed with anFMV BELOW the price they are selling for on Amazon. What am I missing?
Example - If I select a product from vine with a $50 ETV, then click on the link to see the sales page on Amazon.com and the product has a $30 coupon. Vine states value of product is $50, but if I buy it at retail the price it's $20. Viners cant get the ETV to reflect current true price of the products ordered.
Plus, coupons come available after we order a product which is lower than amount Vine claims to be the true value of the item.
Does this explanation help some?
@@thewiseturtle Have you been able to successfully avoid paying all taxes for Vine (or having deducted from your returns)? Just wondering if someone else has done this and how it went, as I'd love to know a little more detail on exactly what to do or say in a letter about this when it's time to file (for purposes of both federal and state taxes, as I live in a state that taxes personal income).
yep wondering the same @@Sis.Sweets
It's all too trifling and complicated for me; I was just invited to join the Vine program, but it just isn't worth it---and I am a disabled low-income senior.
It sure is a shame.
If you're interested, I will be sharing some websites that act like Vine in a sense of giving massive discounts on products if this is what you was hoping for from the program.
Many people look at Vine as a 60 - 70% discount. You can check back when you have the time to see those videos.
Would it be smart for all of use to have a consistent letter? Can we craft one and share so when they see it they know? Seems like it would streamline it for them.
Can you elaborate on this thought?
You mean a copy of the letter she included with her taxes as the explanation. That would make sense. Also, the exact forms used.
Due to my rambling in sections of my video, I decided to condense and clarify my thoughts and position on this matter with a new video.
Update For Clarity Video - th-cam.com/video/WFuP9F-UHTI/w-d-xo.html (fast forward as much as you like)
I appreciate all the comments (those who agree & disagree)
As always, this is my personal situation, and before you act on anything anyone says, do your own research and ask a CPA, Tax Attorney, the IRS, or an accountant about anything I or anyone else say to be sure it can benefit or be applied to your tax situation. You can browse tax laws on the IRS website 24/7 if you want to read a law or two.
Thanks for watching, and I will continue to share my personal Vine journey!
DANG, you're the only one I've seen be so successful with going around the tax implications of Vine. Again thanks, this is great and super, SUPER helpful for us newcomers. I knew from the very beginning vine voices could probably wiggle out of (as the should) paying out the wazoo on our self-employed taxes
I'm glad this information will help you going forward with whatever you choose to do tax wise. I'm a fan of research and asking questions when things dont look right.
Terrific job! You are totally on the right track.
One thing to look up is form 11652 which is what you should file with your supporting letter. There are spaces to cover cover most of it. You can then provide additional information like the Vine user agreement and anyother supporting info. This should help us make sure it will get to the right place to be evaluated.
As a backup, and the IRS still wants to tax us, review publications 535 and 526 on Restricted Property as payments and how you can be assessed FMV at the time of payment and then again at the end of the Restrictions. In this case Anazon says we do not have full use of the product until after 6 months. Which is the point the FMV is assessed. At which point you can assess everything as $0 FMV because they require us to use the product to do reviews and remain in the program.
Ohhh, see I came across this a little bit, but didn't give it much time.
I will look more into this for sure. Thank you so much for sharing this additional information.
@MoneyStruggleSuccess I'm not a CPA. That's just what I came across which gives us other options to make our case. Baffle them with their own B.S.
Understood! I'm doing my research and I took your comment not as tax advice but as information. 💜
@@LisaKnobel I wish everybody suffering this nonsense shared your spirit. The level of utter complacency is unsettling, I try to find answers and instead it's just been one comment after another from forum to forum of people going, "Yes sir I accepted free items on a 1099-NEC sir, please take my money sir, thank you sir, just paying my fair share sir, please don't cage me sir, cage those people instead they're over here trying to understand the tax code sir!"
@@momosey247 Of course, the deal is, they are afraid. It does take some courage to step out and do things differently when we believe it's the correct way to do it (especially if we have spent significant time researching). The second part is: these people really want everyone to be in the same "crowd," because it reinforces their "correctness." Third, some people have a lot more to lose (or don't understand WHAT they have to lose) if they do it wrong.
I haven't yet decided exactly how to handle my tax return for 2023 (my first Vine year) but before I file it, one way or the other, I'll be sure that any additional tax/penalty is saved in advance, JUST in case, though I will certainly report income in the way I consider to be most reasonable. Oh, and one more thing: MANY people just want to e-file and be done with it (and likely are counting on any refund they might get). Sending an explanatory letter makes it impossible to e-file, and some of the delays in manually processing taxes back in 2020/2021 were daunting.
Very helpful! Thanks!
Amazon did not used to send out 1099s and nobody paid income tax on the items way back in the day. The IRS made Amazon change that because the IRS specifically considers vine products to be compensation.
It literally does not matter what an anonymous IRS representative told you because the people on the helpline are often wrong, and the IRS has said that if you rely on the incorrect advice given by the IRS helpline, you are still responsible for the error even though it's the IRS's fault - as someone giving out financial advice, you should know that and warn your audience that the advice you got cannot necessarily be relied on.
Anyone interested in reducing their tax burden should consult a tax professional, one who will help them in an IRS audit should they get audited for using any of the methods mentioned in the video.
You must have been watching my video on mute because you are just talking nonsense.
I'm very intrigued to see the article or post from either the IRS or Amazon that specifically states the IRS sees the VINE program as income when the Vine program itself doesn't state such verbiage. Don't claim things without backing them up with proof from either source! ( No, he say, she say stuff flies here😤)
I would suggest you watch my video in its entirety before commenting and assuming I'm giving tax advice of any sort. ( Oh Gerard, how could you🗣) Sharing isn't giving tax advice, Gerard!
Hearing a personal experience allows individuals to seek clarity on the possibility of that information being of some help to them when the time comes. (Sharing is caring👍)
Your strong disapproval of my video is noted, but you are anonymous, and it doesn't matter what you say. (In Gerard's voice)
Also, stop being the hype man for IRS Audit fear!
📢 Attention! Other readers of this comment
Gerard, here is a prime example of someone who goes around commenting with no personal experience to bring to the table to help you or me with any reliable or factual information to research or look up to dispute anything I'm saying or what the "anonymous" IRS agents stated.
Don't bring me or anyone who reads these comments your PERSONAL OPINION; bring cited source information for your claims! (excluding the words: assume, possibly, could be, etc)
Lastly, my fellow readers... Always do your own research to the best of your ability because the biggest mistake many have made concerning taxes is relying 100% on a CPA, Accountant, or even an IRS agent. Have some base-level knowledge to ensure they are knowledgeable.
These tax laws aren't for rocket scientists to only understand. You and I can read and comprehend just as anyone else. Always ask questions to be informed because, as Gerard has stated, an audit could be in your future, and you will know how to proceed with the tax law as a reference. This is what those tax professionals will do as well. 👍
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess Cognitive dissonance? Prizes are also taxed based on their ETV. Why would this be any different? Amazon wouldn't have started snitching unless the thugs threatened them into it. This makes their position crystal-clear IMO.
th-cam.com/users/shortsHUOZ0kpR5T4?si=md8qElZRRj8Xnl4J
@@gblargg Why are "prizes" different from "gifts" for tax purposes? Because the US legal system is a mess, and intentionally confusing, so that most folks will pay for lawyers and accountants to do things for them.
And also, because the legal system is made by centralized committee, meaning it's mostly useless and nonsensical.
Gifts are rarely taxed because life is pretty much all gift giving, as we're all part of a larger system that depends on specialization of work. In the rare times when gifts are taxed, it's nearly always the giver who's taxed (for extremely large gifts over a lifetime). Prizes are apparently taxed because they're treated as being compensation for work done (winnings).
One could make a case that Vine is "winnings" for us having made supposedly useful reviews in the past (for free). But Amazon isn't making that claim now, as that form would be the 1099-MISC not the 1099-NEC. (It might have done so in the past, from what I understand of the reviewer rankings that no longer exist.)
What I'm starting to think is that because Amazon doesn't know what we do with these promotional items, they have to file as if we're selling them (after 6 months) to make a profit, which would be taxable. But if we don't sell anything, there's no profit, only gifts, so no taxes. So what we file depends on what we do with the items.
@@thewiseturtle Removing 100% of the value could be wrong. But the item certainly is not that full retail value. Using the item to create a review depreciates it. No different from a car, the product is being used as a legitimate business purpose that generates revenue for Amazon and the seller. And an item can't be worth full market value if you can't sell until six months. That is a huge restriction. It could be worth nothing by then. Probably discounting it by 50% would be fair.
Thanks so much! You have the best video on this! So, I just want to make sure, if I'm filling a new return, not an amendment, I would list the 1099 as hobby income AND THEN fill out the schedule C form? Or would I just NOT list the 1099 form and go right to the schedule C and only that?
You are asking me to give you tax advice and that is a no no. It would be better to call the IRS as I did or mention what you want to do with a CPA or Accountant so they can guide you. ❤️
Thank you so much for your informative videos. Definitely will have to do some of my own research on the matter. I have no taxable income, so normally I don't file taxes, so I've been really wondering what to do if and when I receive a tax form from Amazon. I can't help but wonder if I could just continue to not file, as the IRS website says an individual only has to file a return if they make a certain minimum gross income, which for me would be $12,950, and the Vine items won't come anywhere near that amount.
I would assume that would still apply, but as you stated do your own research. I'm happy to have helped in some small way ☺
Just want to say THANK YOU for this!! I even watched your last video around tax time and very much had the same argument. I hired a CPA and raised the argument, for which they said I would still owe. Understandably though, programs like vine are so bizarre, and without any supporting documentation on handling, it’s basically a game of which of the TWO situations allow me to pay the least, since this fancy coffee maker ain’t gonna cut it as payment. 😅
I’ll be filing a amended return this weekend, that’s for sure.
You're so welcome! Vine in on a whole nother planet with this tax stuff that no CPA, accountant or even some IRS agents I've spoken too can specifically cite any tax law to justify this vine tax form.
I'm still baffled, but until someone in a position of power specifically does.. This is what I got 🤷♀️
You are AMAZIIIINNNGGG!!!! So one question I was going to do all my affiliate marketing stuff under a business should I not do that?
Asking for clarity.. This have nothing to do with Vine correct?
So Amazon should be sending out 1099-B forms instead of 1099-NEC forms to Vine members since the transaction is bartering rather than monetary? Why the hell are they sending 1099-NECs?! Why aren’t they just sending 1099-Bs?!
Since everyone will file Vine tax forms how they see fit based on their individual situations, Amazon doesn't answer questions about why they do the things that they do.😕 They ignore you and tell you to speak with a tax professional.
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess Well I’m glad I saw your video before I filed my taxes! I’ll be looking further into this to make sure I don’t screw myself by labeling free products as a source of income! Thank you!! 🙏🏻
@@tracy1190 You're welcome, Tracy.
Thank you very much for this video. I wish I knew all these before I joined the Vine program.
Glad it was helpful!
I wish the powers-that-be would use common logic here: the whole point of 1099s are to declare INCOME received in order for the IRS to take a 20-30% cut of that income. OK I'm fine with that. But what income are you receiving via Amazon Vine? None. You are receiving products. It would be more logical to send the IRS 20-30% of the physical products we receive along with our tax return. If they are defining these products as "income", don't they want their cut of that "income"?
I 100% agree, and the fact that years ago, somebody decided to find a way to make us pay them taxes on a product that cannot enrich us in any way financially blows my mind. The mere fact of someone saying... If you received a pin from a company, now you are richer because you own this pen, and you owe us taxes because you accepted that pen. 😤
It has been stated time and time again that our taxes are complicated for a reason. It has been shown time and time again that taxes rarely benefit the working class, but they go out of their way to enact tax laws to extract more money from the working class, even in instances of receiving a pen.
I will never agree with this logic even if it pertains to a house or car because on paper I can be rich, but until I sell that asset or product, you need to leave me alone until I get money to pay taxes on it since it's in the form of physical cash. My thoughts!
When I say "No Crumbs". Girl, this makes so much sense. How is me getting a free product income? I can't pay my light bill with a couple free items. Even if I were to sell the items I would not even get the ev back. It should be that I pay 0 in taxes however if I sell the item that I was given for free then I should be taxed on that total value as income! Thank you!
You're so welcome! People.just be making up stuff with these tax laws.
Love your videos! What about the state sales tax? I live in Washington and they supposedly collect sales tax. My tax accountant was clueless as he only deals with Federal Income tax.
I cant speak on sales tax because that's not something I deal with nor need to pay towards.
Thank you. I keep reading about the 3 ways we will be taxed. So, very confusing.@@MoneyStruggleSuccess
Happy to share!
Would you feel comfortable putting some sample verbiage for the explanatory letter here in the comments?
Sad to say, but no in this instance. If I did so, that would be seen as me giving you tax advice in some form.
Regarding the letter that you were told to include for explanation: When you mentioned stating amazon refusing to send a corrected form 1099NEC, is that to say that they should have sent the same form but with 0 as the amount of 'income' or a different form entirely (as in not the 1099)?
Also, it looks like you may have filed it as self employment income rather than hobby. If that's correct, is there a reason you would say that doing one is better/easier to zero than the other? And even if zeroing out self employment income, would you still have to pay the self employment tax..? I would assume not if there's no income to pay it on, but just checking. Thanks again for your sharing.
I don't know what they potentially would have done if they acknowledged my email regarding my tax form. I can only assume it would likely still be a 1099 as this is the form they mention on their website.
I didn't file it as self-employed income. I filed Vine as a hobby because that's what is is for me personally on thr appropriate tax form.
If you file it as income per the 1099 that will generate self employment tax as well thatbwould be due.
As I mentioned in my video, I filed as a hobby so I didn’t generate self employment taxes.
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess Thanks for clarifying, I must have forgotten that part from the video as to which you filed as. Hopefully services like TurboTax will allow for it to be filed as hobby rather than self employment as well for those who opt to do so. I also realized from another of your videos that you tried to get them to remove the ETV for the un-reviewed products that you got them to remove from your list. Not a bad idea! Too bad the amount wasn't removed though, and I figure maybe that's what you meant by them not correcting it. It wouldn't surprise me if Voices got varying responses to that same request depending on who they end up getting for support though, maybe not even getting them to remove things from the list.
If any Voices aren't going to try and completely zero out the income and hopefully not get in trouble over it, it's at least a good idea to keep track of the selling price including any coupons for regular customers of each item at the time that you request it so it can be figured in to deductions at least. At least. It's crazy to think that a few years ago this wasn't an issue for anyone at all in the program!
I understand when you said you've been audited and it went fine and you were okay with it because you'd made a mistake. But it's awful that it can happen when it isn't one's fault and they did all they could to make sure there wouldn't be any issues, including reaching out to the IRS, getting wrong or little or no advice on their own policies, having a return accepted and then still later may get audited. Impossible to know how to move forward the next year and how cautious to be if they can come back at you later like "Oh, oops, nevermind, we don't accept that thing we said we did that we also didn't inform you properly on or make clear enough in any way. You owe more money than you can ever pay since you understandably thought it was fine since we said it was and because it also makes total sense and so you went and did it the following few years which we are also coming after you for now." As it seems like could happen, though I've not experienced it.
The random IRS audits can happen at any time, thats the nature of the beast. This shouldn't be a things nor should we accept that this can happen randomly, but we the people don't press our elected officials to change random audits and or future audits from old returns.
Turbotax will provide the tax form to file to claim the income as a hobby.
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess Of course, it shouldn't be a thing, and it is so maddening. As far as filing as hobby, I'm actually wondering if one could zero it out without issue (with a letter of explanation) even without having been denied a requested corrected form based on things removed from the needs reviewed list (such as yourself), rather simply due to the fact that no profit was made or is intended to ever be, and that there is no contract where the items had to be reviewed in order to be received and kept in the first place either, as you've said. Hopefully we'll find out in Voices' favor.
Just joined Vine yesterday, did I make a mistake or am I just worried? What do I have to pay then, the taxes?
I hope nothing I stated scares you, I just want you and anyone else to be educated and prepared for what this program is all about.
Watch my Vine Playlist if you want to understand the program more. A few videos I made to help new reviewes like yourself in your spare time.
Although Amazon stated you will get 'free' products, nothing is free and instead of you paying the price of the you choose in full, you will pay taxes on a ETV (determined by Amazon solely) which usually is the current price of the item, reduced or sometimes $0.
This ETV value will generate a 1099 for you to file if it goes over $600. (This acts as income due to the form used to report this amount by amazon.)
Thanks for this. I just got invited to vine recently.
Welcome to the cazy Vine world! Tip: Just be VERY mindful of the items you choose because not all products (quality wise) are good.
Same here!
Beware of items with coupons. This has become an annoying tactic sellers are taking. They jack up the price then offer a 40-50% off coupon to make it look like a bargain, meanwhile the Vine reviewer gets to send a big donation to Uncle Sam... I'm starting to wonder if IRS agents are running shops on Amazon, that was supposed to be a joke, but now I think I'm serious...*cringe*
Thanks for this. I'll try to be watching to see if you or others are successful in avoiding any taxes (or reductions of your returns) from the vine program. I saw why you said you don't want to specifically state what you were told to put in the letter, and I plan to speak with the IRS as well on this situation, but it would be appreciated of anyone who has been through this without issue to provide any information they feel comfortable with that can help others, even if they have to state it in a way that makes it 'clear' enough that they're not giving 'advice.'
As far as potentially being misinformed by an IRS agent, I think just like with anything that should be something that they as the one making the mistake or those they work for should be accountable for in some way, not the person who did what they could in order to properly do what they're being forced to deal with by that entity in the first place. But what 'should' be isn't always as it is, such as the IRS being an issue in the first place. I wonder if requesting an email or something in writing when talking to an agent would work, just as potential back up, though I figure they can probably do pretty much whatever they want to us anyway, regardless. But we can try.
My opinion is getting the information is good, but verifying the information being told to you is best. The IRS could get laws mixed up or confused, but what you read in black and white will always win because these tax laws are used when lawyers defend someone in court for tax related issues.
I figure just like in normal criminal and civil trials, if the law on the books that we can see is used to justify your position, then surely it works the same when dealing with taxes. At least this is what lawyers that deal with taxes have told me.
I'll always try because the biggest mistake anyone can make is to never try.
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess Do you or your lawyer have an opinion on the legality of Voices being taxed due simply to the black and white text in the program agreement where Amazon says you're responsible for paying taxes on these items (based on their estimated value at the time)? Technically that is 'agreed' upon when joining. And to sit and deduct for each and every item for unfair etvs and/or value depreciation, if any value is left at all, after the item review period, is so much work and doesn't seem worth it.
Yet to call this taxable income would make it seem that Voices are getting paid for reviews, which isn't okay and not something allowed. So... hm.
@Sis.Sweets My position is clear and until proven wrong, I'll keep my stance on the 1099 not being a valid tax document.
It 100% depe ds on the individual because some people are low income. maybe don't have to pay Federal taxes and fall within the limits to avoid state taxes as well. For those people, it wouldn't make sense.
When the Vine income moves you into a higher tax bracket, this is when you start scanning the tax laws to apply the ones to help you disregard some ( or all) of this ETV income.
It all depends on that individual persons situation and tax obligation.
Great video. Did you have to pay income tax? because if you file as a hobbyist you dont pay self employment tax but would have to pay income tax
Yes, because I am a small business with other business related income.
I even paid on the state level since the amount is on a 1099-NEC.
For fun, I asked my state why I must pay taxes on this imaginary income and they stated since that amount is on a 1099-NEC, they will treat all amounts on that form as income PERIOD. They only cared about the form and nothing else matters.
They understood everything, but that form specifically is what made me have to pay taxes on that amount.
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess thats insane! Well keep fighting the good fight :)
So did you get ZEO taxes in the end? Even if you declare an amount perceived as a hobby?
Due to my personal 1099 issue, I paid 0 dollars in taxes.
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess I hope this is the same in my country (France). Do you think it will the same for you in 2024 since 2022/2023 were years where Amazon changed their rules and tries to comply with tax laws.
If I have future 1099 issues, YES! Based off my research and my tax team, I expect this to not have a balance due in the future unless the tax law changes to make my tax strategy become a balance due.
So my question for clarity, this would cause a person previously capable of 1040ez form to no longer be able to file as such, or separate filing?
I had to fight tax prep that i did not have to file with service fees because i solely have a hsa account without payouts. I didnt have to in years past, come to find out, h and r block, turbotax, and others are doing a money grab of sorts. I went with freetaxusa and they clarified if i did/did not receive payouts, and processed electronically without any issue at all. So the above is my assumption.
I am not qualified to give any sort of answer for your situation. I do recommend using this AI accountant which helped me get the outcome with the IRS to ask your question, take the information given and look it up or call the IRS for clarity.
www.keepertax.com/ask-an-ai-accountant
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess oh for sure, I have zero expectation of solid answer. I am also assuming you do not follow the filing 1040ez on an annual basis. I would not expect you to be anyway. I would not be surprised if you found a legal way to do so. But the situations with this topic is indeed unique and interesting. I hope irs is understanding on filing routes you and others have taken satisfactorily.
I don't file form 1040ez personally, but before I file my taxes I research any new tax law changes, plus I speak with my accountant and my CPA (because I need more than 1 person's opinion) to dictate how I will file my taxes that will benefit me most.
Until the tax laws change to make my assumptions and what was clarified by the IRS agents I spoke with regarding Vine "Income", I will continue to file how I and my team see fit.
Thanks for watching!
I don't think they even offer the EZ forms anymore. When I was trying to file last year I couldn't find it. I just checked again, and it looks like it was discontinued in 2018, I think.
I'm so sorry - do you mind clarifying for me? I understand that they helped with explaining how to file an amended return. What was the conclusion they came to for how it should be filed to begin with so that you can avoid having to do an amended return in the future? Was the hobby income the correct thing to do? I appreciate all the time you've sunk into this!
Rewatch the section showing the schedule C and if you need to, slow the video down so you can watch it step by step slower.
I don't know how to clarify it any better that a video step by step.
Great follow up on your previous video!
I am very confused on filing the NEC as an income, and glad to see your followup video after you filed as an hobbyist initially. I'm am also very inclined to follow suit, and wonder what points did you write in your letter. I know you've mentioned not to load up on details, but should an intro on vine, the facts that you've mentioned about why this shan't be treated as income be listed?
Thanks for watching!
You don't need to write a letter to file as a hobby. This video mentions that because I had received a 1099 that wasnt correct and tried to get it corrected but Amazon gave me the run around.
This video specifically talks about it and I share hot to do it. Skip through to get to the demo if you like.
th-cam.com/video/eRJOg4W_ZpY/w-d-xo.html
I hope that works.
Pardon my ignorance 😊 I was under the impression that I should report the amount on line 1, line 7 and then also on line 28 as expenses, which zeros out this 'income' on line 29, right?
But as you've mentioned, attach a letter justifying why this shouldn't be considered as an income.
Also, what do write on lines A, B, C etc. Nothing I think. And I don't want to file as a hobby, wonder why you mentioned.🤔
@@Khans-in-va Only if you have a 1099 that is not accurate as per my video. I gave you the link if you have chosen to file this income as a hobby.
You do not submit a letter to the IRS if you file as a hobby.
OK, since I don't file this 1099 as a hobby, I should submit a letter in which I state why I am zeroing out the income correct. Thanks.
@@Khans-in-va That's what I have been told and seen others do when attempting to zero out that income.
THANK YOU!!!!!!!❤
Happy to share all that I can.🙂
What I got from this video, and it makes sense, is instead of preemptively correcting Amazon's amounts in my filing, I should file as is, pay, then amend and hope for the best. Is that right? It makes sense because the IRS would probably flag discrepancies in my filing and treat it much differently than me requesting a correction, right?
That is one option and it takes more time of course. If I was facing this problem again I would file how I was told to zero out the income due to the incorrect 1099 form from the start including the letter. This is what I would do if this happened to me again.
Hi fellow Viner! I'm glad I read your comment because I think what you're suggesting seems like the logical preferred way for me personally. Even though this video has got me excited and I hope to utilize the information in the way suggested.......I'm just scared. Especially in knowing how the IRS likes to access giant fees sometimes if you don't dot all the i's and cross all the t's just the way they like, even if sometimes it is just a way to scare you into action. The fact is, I just don't know what I'm doing and that's scary when dealing with an entity like the IRS. I don't want the stress of worrying if I did it wrong, or wondering for months if maybe I missed an audit letter (sometimes my mail gets lost) or if one might still be on the way. This way I can have it all done in time, the safest way and end the worrying now, instead of wondering if things may be about to get much worse by taking a chance and doing it wrong. I'll do a little more research and submit a non-rushed, carefully done amendment and if it works then it will just be a pleasant surprise and then I'll also have much more confidence in how to submit it from the start, next time around. Thank you for putting the idea in my head!
I understand your apprehension and I would do the same in your shoes. The one piece of advice I want to give is you are never in the dark when you ask questions. The ITD has a phone number to reach agents who can pull your tax return and inform you of whatever you are seeking most times.
After seeing my CPA and Accountants always calling them for information, I thought why dpnt I do that as it will be much faster. Get comfortable calling them and asking questions. Pay for a tax filing service like Turbotax that includes an Accountant or CPA to ask questions while filing your taxes. I wish you luck!
For anyone arguing against the fact that a 'service' isn't being provided, consider what's been stated: If a Voice chooses any given amount worth of products and then decides not to review any in the time-frame given to do so after getting them (not sharing details here), the only downside is likely not getting more promotional products through the program. The products received are kept regardless. CHOOSING to continue writing reviews shouldn't be the basis for being punished with taxes (based on an often unfair ETV which you can find people talking about elsewhere) on something that otherwise one wouldn't have to pay based on guidelines that everyone else is allowed to go on. But that's what's happening with this program thanks to (in my a opinion) a generic and/or uninformed and inconsiderate response by amazon to the IRS's rules whether out of lack of care of what they're doing or a way to avoid liability themselves, or some ill-intent by the IRS to get those who won't question it to give up more money.
'Service' is defined by the IRS and to my knowledge at other places so I still shake my head in disbelief at those those who work tirelessly to rework the definition of 'service' per the IRS to make it include Vine.
However, it's not my place or business on how they choose to kove with their tax returns.
Am I understanding you correctly, that when you file as Self Employed you exclude the Amazon Vine details and instead just include them in your taxes as "Hobbies"? I understand what you're saying. Unfortunately some of the products we receive from Vine are used as raw materials in the products we create for a home business. Any ideas there?
Thanks a ton for posting this video. The more I thought of the entire thing as income the less is jibed with me.
You either file as self employer OR you file as a hobby. Here is a video on filing as a hobby. Fast forward as much as you need to find what you're looking for.
Filing Vine As A Hobby -th-cam.com/video/eRJOg4W_ZpY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=8KoGDY9DJixsTzXo
Using Vine products for a business doesn't grant you write off or anything for the federal side. (solely my understanding).
After speaking with my state and local, I am able to deduct against Vine 'Income'.
This is my personal experience and hopefully this information can help you find solutions specific to you when speak to CPA (etc) or researching for these tax related answers.
I am trying to file my taxes and what I have come across is, if you file as a hobby, THEN you can't file a Schedule C and zero out the amount. If someone files a Schedule C and zero's out the total amount, then you can't file as a hobby. Does that sound right? Cause when I enter the 1099 NEC and file as a hobby, it doesn't allow me to then file a Schedule C to zero it out. Just want to make sure I am understanding it. And I'm guessing that since you have to send a letter of explanation for the Schedule C, you won't be able to file electronically anymore?
Yes, its one or the other not both.
Yes, anytime you submit written documents you cant efile as of right now.
Thank you for sharing this information! It's a lot of work to do the research & put this all together & it shows. Your videos are the most informative I've found on the Vine/IRS topic!
Thanks so much! Glad it was helpful! I try to share as much as possible so people can see they have options and it's good to research and ask questions.
Brilliant!!! I'm subscribing!!! Huge thanks. I wish you total success.
Awesome, thank you!
Thank you for this. This is my first full year as a Vine Voice and I’ve already racked up a few grand worth of stuff. I would consider it income if I could sell what I review but I don’t want to bother with that. I use or gift what I order. Calling this a hobby for tax sake is fine with me.
Glad it was helpful!
This is great, I just watched your first video! My question is, is the IRS going to notify Amazon that they shouldn't be expecting Vine users to pay taxes, if they're saying these 1099's aren't really legal?
No! My opinion is the IRS will gladly continue to take all money given to them until a reason is given. Typically, it has to be a public outcry and such. Even then they might not change a thing because as long as people choose not to ask questions and search for answers, why would any business tell people to stop paying them? 🤔
This is 100% my opinion as well.
And after reviewing the item, it's used. It's market value is substantially less. If we're reviewing a consumable item, then there is no real compensation for our service as a reviewer. Everything wears out, and needs maintenance. We should be seen as custodians of these items for the purpose of free review. If there is any benefit to ownership, then it should fall under the gift tax exemption, and at a used fair market value. The 1099 for retail price is a scam.
@@qua7771 I'm still looking into the 'gift tax' scenario because it fits Vine 100%, yet Amazon found a way to pass responsibility to the reviewers.
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess I'm seeing people claiming that the 6 month review period can't be considered actual ownership since we only have custody of it until the review period has expired. Then we get what value the used item is worth, which is usually next to nothing. My issue is that once amazon issues a 1099 for full retail, we are stuck with the burden of proof. Absolutely nothing has full retail value after review. With proper record keeping we can bet it, but the risk isn't worth the reward to anyone who doesn't want to be audited, is receiving low income benefits, disability, or military benefits, etc...
@@qua7771 Based on the law as it is written I agree with that. however Amazon also says you take ownership once you receive the item after delivery. Both verbiage passages are listed on the website, but then you question 🤔 .. If I take posession after delivery, you (Amazon) can’t restrict or dictate how I use these product ( ie Giving away, selling, gifting etc) They do this as well which makes it a bit confusing because they say multiple things which contradict itself.
The burden of proof is easy since they law all of this online. It just gathering this information to state your case and so far, I've had luck with the Federal side. It's the state side that makes things more complicated.
Thank you 😊
I am happy you found some of this information helpful.
Can I still do this even if I already file self employment for other gig work
If you already filed you taxes, typically you would need to amend them if you want to make changes.
Even tho on the products the "taxable value" is shown u still dont need to pay tax ?
In my situation, I choose to challenge the value and I have found success based on the current tax law.
Everyone will do their taxes how they see fit. In my video I was able to zero out that income as shown.
Thank you for this video. It definitely didn't feel right when I was being charged the self employment tax.
Glad you found my experience helpful in some way.
Uncle Jeff needs to fix these shenanigans
I am still a bit confused after reading and watching many different views on vine taxes. As an example, if the total ETV is 5K for 2023 what would I actually be paying in taxes? Is there a straight up percentage?
The % is not identical for everyone.
Here is a tax calculator from TT that shows you what you potential tax % will be.
Plus you can check your prior year yax return as well.
turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tools/calculators/self-employed/
Thanks and subscribed.
@@theearloffunk7223 You're welcome! I appreciate it 😀
So, the question is, if i haven't filed my taxes yet, after choosing hubby how to fill up form 1040 schedule c?
Hobby isn't considered a business and Schedule C traditionally is used for business to report income and other such numerical figures.
turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/self-employment-taxes/-what-is-a-schedule-c-irs-form/L7v0iDelI
The experience I shared was based on a specifc issue with my 1099 form and I was showing the solution given to remedy that issue using the schedule C form as instructed by not only the IRS.
If you had the same tax form issue, you may benefit from the one solution I showed in this video. To get specific instruction, call the IRS as I did, speak with an accountant or do your research to figure it out as i did. I can't guide you since that is a no-no.
Amazon is not giving you a 1099-NEC because your are an independent contractor. They are giving you one because the IRS "told them to". In the past, Amazon did not issue a 1099 for Vine members, but they were told to do so people could report the value of the goods they were given on their taxes. IRS publication 525 describes the types of property (including found and stolen property for example) received that should be considered income, and the items you receive from Vine is considered "Other Income" in that publication. Amazon is only acting as a record keeper in this capacity. They do not own the products you are given (with some exceptions), rather the 3rd party sellers are the ones giving it to you in hopes of getting a review. Amazon is simply keeping track of the value of all the products you receive and reporting it to you and the IRS so you can pay the taxes on it accordingly.
Thanks for your input as all opinions and tax publications are helpful for people to choose what will work best for them.
This was 7 months ago... any word from the IRS on your filing?
Nothing to report
I was wondering the same thing. If this was done as a correction to a previous tax filing, was a corrected tax rebate received?
My amended return was processed. No issues here.
Does this apply still since now Amazon is issuing 1099-EC?
This is what I follow. You'll have to figure out if it would be best for you or not if Amazon will not give you a updates tac form.
I just got invited. But the tax portion/language scares the bejesus out of me. Is the Vine program worth the trouble?
Honestly, it depends on your tolerance and if you have self control. 🤷
I think everyone could benefit from this program, but many are not able to hold back from ordering a bunch of stuff. Hence the self control part..
Tolerance, meaning having to worry about how you will handle the taxes from Vine (Contest them and or Use methods to zero out the income, file as independent contractor and pay additional self employment tax or file as hobby). It's a headache for some after they join.
So i have two questions you might be able to answer me. Which for is the actual one we are supposed to get from amazon. And on the schedule c for accounting method what do i put, cash, accrual or other, and specify
I can only answer the first part which is Form 1099 NEC from Amazon.
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess so they never gave you a 1099nec ?
@shimmy1284 I never said that in the video.
This is what i am asking you lol which for you did not receive
Form *
Again thanks for posting this and helping make up my mind to do a HARD PASS on joining Vine(recently invited too join) I don't need the headaches and don't want to declare myself a Business/Hobby either. If they handled this with a 1099-MISC or 1099-K, I'd consider it, but 1099-NEC and making me open to possible SE Taxes as well...PASS.
I do find it funny that given what I assume are Thousands of Amazon Vine members out there the IRS has not defined a specif "rule" regarding Filing. Pretty certain that Amazon paid lots of $$$ to Tax Attorneys to get a ruling for the IRS for using the 1099-NEC as means for filing and that it's the best for Amazon but not really for Vine users.
My goal was to lay it all out there so those who have yet to join get all the details to make the best decision before joining. I have some assumptions on how they came about uaing the 1099 NEC, but they are my opinions and not facts/truth so I keep them to myself. I do agree the way they handle the tax for Viners is in Amazon’s best interest. You and I typically always get the short end of the stick.
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess What I have learned is that Amazon, and/or the sellers, would owe use tax in at least some instances in some states. (Use tax is like sales tax, but it's for wholesalers and retailers who use products for their own purposes that they'd otherwise be selling. This includes giving away the products for promotional purposes (as in free samples to consumers). There are a ton of exceptions, and not all states have use tax, but at least in some situations some use tax would be owed by either Amazon (stuff listed on the Available For All section, which are Amazon's own offerings) or the third party sellers (everything other than sold by Amazon stuff). So, yeah, that's extremely likely why Amazon is pretending to the IRS that these promotional products are money paid to contractors for jobs being done.
I 1000% agree; it's just that specific law is transparent, so I don't know if Amazon has found a way to be included in the 'exceptions' area. I
do feel they are passing the tax to the Viners. I always have felt that way since day one.
When you don't have specific, you just assume all the time, and I stopped caring about what they did and focused on how to make sure I am not paying taxes 'just cause' without a mandatory reason. Why would you want to do that?
@@thewiseturtle Yes, look up Nexus....this was a huge issue for Amazon, online retailers for years as they didn't charge sales tax. Also look at the Wayfair judgement regarding this.
You are a blessing to society. Don't quit what you're doing. Bless you! 🧑🏻
Thank you for your kind words! 💚
I appreciate this validation of some things I had long suspected. Many thanks for taking the time to investigate with the IRS directly, and then offer your and their takes here. There are Viners on Reddit that really, really, passionately want to pay taxes, and think you should want to, too, or you are just a big stupid.
I genuinely appreciate your comment. I, too, witness Viners in a Discord group fight amongst each other and, dare I say, be mean to those who choose to look into the law and ask questions versus freely handing over their money to the government.
I applaud those who choose to be individuals and take the steps to do their own research vs. following the masses.
This! The Reddit Viners are tax insane god forbid you try to justify why you feel this isn’t right.. they all must have 6 figure incomes and be especially financially stable and good with money so they don’t care if they have to pay
@debramedina2496 I've come to terms that there are some people who have strong feeling about paying taxes mostly out of fear or audit. I could never allow fear to hinder me from asking questions and seeking information to make sure what I am being presented is correct.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I've been saying this all along, especially after doing a ton of research on tax laws, gifts, promotional products, and old education I got on independent contract work (when I had an employee claiming me as a temp while I was permanent). I filed my taxes this year with paper forms and sent a ton of printouts from the Vine agreement and related stuff and explained that these are not compensation but promotional products (free samples) offer to consumers with no requirement for anything in return, so I was reporting the amount on the 1099-NEC form as "0" for my taxes. I got my refund, but nothing else, so it seemed likely that no human even looked at it all (plus, it wouldn't have made a difference anyway, this year, because I didn't have any other taxable income at all, and had less than the minimum amount needed for income taxes to kick in. So my test didn't really offer much of any information.
You, on the other hand, actually talked to real IRS agents! And you knew what to explain to them! So thank you so much!
You are the reason I did my own research after your post in Discord was being (shall I say in a nice way) 'Questioned from many passionate individuals '.
Look, I know people want to state their opinions, but if you are not talking or researching directly to the source aka the IRS, I dont understand how they have such pushback when they won't take the time to get educated?!?!
It boils down to three truths.. People will be paying taxes unnecessarily, People will be zeroing for taxes based on tax law and finally an audit will happen and another human at the IRS will confirm or deny the people who the people who zero out the Vine income.
Being sure to include the letter is what the IRS agent stated is very important for those possible 'audit' scenarios to provide context.
I’m reading some of the comments and I’ve had issue with the tax thing and probably because I’m stressing. I have no income right now. Family is helping me due to some bad circumstances. Vine invited me in March and being depressed from the above situation I got my 8 items a day fast forward I’ve racked up 68 grand! I have no pot to piss in and can’t pay taxes on this. I have tried to figure out how this can be income when I can’t pay my light bill with the mattress I got etc. Here is my justification for the IRS . If I go to my regular Amazon page and go to an item I purchased it shows the amount and my form of payment which is a debit/credit card generally. The items from Vine show there as well however they show as costing $0 and form of payment is a gift card! How can they show that a gift card was applied but then give us a 1099?! Anyone think this is a loophole?
My opinion is Amazon is doing what it needs to do to not pay taxes.
How on earth did you rack up that much when you can only order 3 items a day for less than $100 for the first 6 months???
@anonymous6180 Believe me, it's very possible. When starting in March, 6 months fasy forward would be September, and then the bump up to 8 items a day from September moving forward with unlimited amount to be requested (ETV wise)
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess I guess it's just difficult to understand because at silver level there's so much junk and very few expensive items.
@@anonymous6180 I agree!
Fantastic video! And such a great representation of the facts. My sister, an MBA and CPA, laughed when I asked her how I had to pay taxes on this. She said, "Um, you don't. You got free stuff sent to you. That's not on you. Imagine if you said, "I would love a yacht!" Then I sent you a $100,000,000 yacht. Would you be libel for it? No. What if I was a billionaire and wanted to punish people I hated for making wishes and sending me letters could I just sent them 100 million dollar boats and force them to pay the taxes? No, I can't. You got free stuff, for free, enjoy. Also this is not legal advice; you do you bro."
I appreciate this and your last sentence. 🤣 When you take the time to educate yourself, you truly see things differently.
omg, thank you so much, you are awesome, you go girl
You're so welcome!
If you look at the price on your order, each item shows as zero dollars. So we can deduce from this that the product is a promotional product with no dollar value. So it seems to me you could just print out a list of all the items showing zero dollar cost and include them with a letter saying you did not receive any money whatsoever as a result of receiving these products. But the problem with writing a letter to explain it is that your state won't get that letter. Plus I like to do my taxes electronically so I don't know how you'd send a letter electronically. I like staying out of trouble, so I'm thinking I'll claim the "income" as HOBBY income. I'll owe about $1k on that "income," and I'll just buy an IRA for $1k to avoid paying the taxes. I feel like the IRS is out to get us by making rules very murky then allowing themselves to be the sole judge and jury. The IRS is making Amazon assign a value because working people like us need to be fleeced in every possible way while rich people get out of everything.
You have to remember that Congress enacts these tax laws, and the IRS enforces them. This has been true way before I was born and it will likely never change especially for our benefit.
The USA is a business and if you aren't a business you are typically screwed tax wise. That's a historical fact because political parties favor big corporations over working class. 🤷♀️
Amazon states in black and white tax authorities told them to give these 1099 and just because it says 'tax authorities ' it's not clear if it was the IRS or another known entity.
All letters are required to be filed by mail, so based on your personal tolerance during tax filing season you may just pay up to getnit over with amd thats totally fine.
Any accompany documents you create for taxes on the state level would typically need to be submitted via the mail unless your state has different rules. I talk to mine all the time, so I know how to move come tax time.
Good luck overall however you choose to kove forward.
List as other income. It says this year to put on box 1 on Schedule 1. Most of us cannot zero it out!
Everyone files Vine taxes how they see fit. I'm just sharing in this video.
Prizes are also taxed based on their ETV. Why would this be any different?
Simple answer.. These are not prizes.
The tax law is in black and white and refers to how specific transactions should be handled based on the current law.
If you object, that totally fine but instead of comparing a non related tax law, call the IRS or look on their website at the tax laws and find the specific law relating to Vine that the IRS themselves, CPAs and Accountants are also unable to find.
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess The point is, if you don't think this should be taxed (products in exchange for reviews), you really shouldn't think that prizes should be taxed (products given without any work on your part). Thus any objections to taxing Vine items based on technicalities about contractor, who owns it, etc. could be countered by pointing out that none of this exists with prizes yet they're still taxed.
The conclusion seems inescapable so the endless attempts to find around it seem like a lot of wasted time and emotion. I think that the only way you won't be taxed on Vine items (in the USA) is by slipping under the radar, perhaps by misfiling and making a good excuse for it, and nobody notices. As others have stated, what some IRS agent tells you is not their rules/laws. Individuals can give bad advice, or good advice based on a misunderstanding of your situation.
I appreciate your opinion even though I don't agree or understand your conclusions and that's okay.
It's not a prize. You didn't enter a contest and you didn't win anything.
@@gblargg As it currently stands, the closest thing you could say that vine products are is gifts. Definitely not prizes. And on a gift the tax liability falls on the gift giver. Obviously, I don't agree with this sentiment either but just pointing out that either way the tax liability wouldn't fall on the person receiving the item.
Good luck with this. I was invited to Amz vine but I will pass. Dont need to complicate things with the IRS. You do not have anything in writing from the IRS so come tax time one can only hope this works out. People in govt departments can tell you one thing today and tomorrow someone else will tell you something different. I wonder what legal right Amz has to claim they're paying people. Do they deduct this from their tax liability ? The whole situation is just too questionable. This vine program is more or less just an offer to buy unproven products at a discount, products that you can't sell or return. When you factor in that vine members are taxed on full price of overpriced products that are available to regular buyers for much less with discounts, the so called vine discount isn't really as much as it may seem. Some say there's good products, some say its a bunch of junk. I've decided after reading about all the confusion over this tax nonsense that I'll pass on this program. I need something that will actually make me money, not cost me money and irs headaches to fill my house up with a bunch of stuff.
Oh yes!! Although I was told to do this, I am confident and unafraid to move forward becuase there is nothing in black and white (as of now) that makes what I was told to do wrong based on the current tax law.
On another note, the Vine program has made me money from these products. Many items are junk from 1x sellers looking for quick reviews, but some very popular brands also use the Vine program. Knowing what I do now, everything I order is strategic that will boost my income moving forward.
Thanks for your comment!
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess there is another lady here that has also consulted with irs who couldnt give a clear answer and has gone ahead filing taxes and deducting everything, says she’ll be following up.
th-cam.com/video/77iRfEvaZTA/w-d-xo.html
I seen that video and her approach is she wants to get audited to get clarity and I applaud her for that. I'm not afraid of audits, they always went through all my past tax returns when I called them for these answers. I don't see the IRS as a boogeyman, I'll question them down to get what I need.
I decided to analyze the program as a whole and found (as I mentioned in my video) legal areas that make the tax form incorrect based on current tax laws. The information provided to me by each agent based on my specific questions was so much more insightful than what I shared because it was alot, but I am 99% confident that my approach will be a non-issue. That 1% will always be there lingering around, but I have the tax law on my side, until it isn't ya know!
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess Good luck, I applaud your efforts. Will check back to see how it goes. Hopefully your efforts will establish a clear way to avoid the taxes. This free stuff program sounded too good to be true but maybe you can make it a real deal.
Right there with you, just got invited to join, saw they wanted our Tax ID and decided to look into this further. Hard Pass for me as well....retired and don't need the hassles or really the "free" stuff either.
I won't be doing Vine. I feel it hurts the small business and unfair when I read reviewers saying the price is too high when Vine reviewers are getting products for free. In good conscience I can't do it.
I really appreciate your comment and as a small business myself I want to hug you for your compassion.
To make you feel more at ease, the products given to Viners from small businesses are all apart of a marketing ploy to gain more exposure for their products.
They give these items away for free the same as if you get a t shirt, bobblehead, a free ice cream cone for ice cream day to help spread the word about a brands new product or to get eyes on them in general.
This type of marketing is a gamble for businesses and they are well aware before they choose to sign up for the Vine program.
I also want to point out that taxes are always on small businesses sides in these situations when dealing with marketing. 💛
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess I’m only one person but really wish more ppl would look at all sides before making these bad decisions. I did go to another YT vid about taxes and put my 2cnts in saying I won’t be doing it and saying why. It takes food out of the mouths of small biz and only benefits Amazon. Also commented about them complaining about high prices when they get the items free. I’m old so I say it like it is and learned to step in others shoes. Im on small biz side and sick of Corp and their dirty deeds against them when there’s plenty of money to go around. Hang in there and take care.
I totally agree that most if not all things will always benefit the big guys! Thank you for your comment and take care 🧡
Exactly. Same here!
@@adriankap2978 As an unbiased Vine reviewer, yes we get the products for 'free' however we also are able to evaluate the value proposition in purchasing the product, and I do take that into account when picking a rating as consumers should be made aware if a product may be priced too high vs. competition. I won't go into where they should get it or from whom, but if you post a part that retails most places at $10 and you're trying to sell the exact same thing for $25+ I'm going to call you out on it if there is no additional value-add for it.
Thank you so much for taking the time to investigate and make this video for the rest of us. Your time is valuable and I am truly grateful for how diligent you were with your questions and research. I’m new to the Vine program and also felt the tax situation was sketchy. It just didn’t jibe with me- it’s not earned income, I’m not an affiliate or employee. I was wondering- could you share a copy or example of the letter you submitted? That would really help a sister out. Feel free to get in contact with me. Again, thank you so much for this informative response 🙏🏽
I appreciate your kind words. I don't share my letter because it is specific to my personal situation. However, I did exactly as I was told per the IRS rep hitting many points I stated in this video. 🩷
I don't have a business and not self-employed, so file as hobby?
Hobby would be a good option especially if you treat it like a hobby and not a business.
That is an option for you as long as you treat this as a hobby. I have a video on this, take a look for more information so you can make the best decision for yourself.
There is no max to my knowledge, but that amount ($20,000) is possible to claim as a hobby. The IRS has guardrails that are unknown to people like us on what may trigger them to come asking questions due to past bad actors, but as long as you have your ducks in a row and can justify your tax return - you may be good. The burden of proof is essential when dealing with taxes as I have learned. You should look at the IRS website and also speak with a tax professional to get better understanding if you need to.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
It seems from some of the comments, people are under the impression that this video is about "How to avoid paying taxes on your Vine "income" " I am not getting that impression myself. All of us Vine users owe income tax on the Vine Products that we receive. However "How to file/declare it" is the question, the answer, Hobby Income on Schedule 1, Line 8z. This video seems to be about how to amend a return, if you filed the Vine amount incorrectly, not on "zeroing out" your Vine income altogether.
Correct in regards to using Schedule 1 to file Vine income as a hobby if it applies to you individually. The ending of my video shows and explained my need to amend my return to zero out the income due to my incorrect 1099. The pinned link in my comments also directs people to a video further explaining this video as well as people are confused or choosing to hesr what they want.
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess Good videos. People just need to "follow the Money" ;) I really do think that some have a hard time accepting that Vine items are not "free" to them. It is like someone winning a car and thinking they don't owe taxes on it. Vine members should be thankful for the 72% discount, but still shop prudently and wisely.
Come on now, THANKFUL. If anyone or entity should be thankful is Amazon sellers and Amazon. You can get these same discounts or even more from various places from the actual sellers themselves without the tax obligation.
Well some items are 100% FREE with no ETV value and I focus on those more because I or family can use them, I still blame Amazon for keeping the 'FREE' language in all advertisements regarding Vine when it is not true. I felt dupped because I only signed up because they said it would be "free items", only to find out once I signup and started working my way through the resources tab, I found out about the tax obligation.
I disagree with the "it's like winning a car " analogy because I've discussued with tax professionals and the IRS and each made it clear this isn't compariable circumstance especially for tax purposes.
Everyone will compare Vine to what ever circumstance that makes the most sense to them to better understand this program and that's okay.
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess Well, as I have told others, they can quit Vine at anytime if they don't like it. I'm a pretty frugal shopper, even in Vine. While I am able to get 8 items a day, with no $ value limit, 1-5/week is an average.
I do appreciate your videos and point of view. :) Hope you didn't think I wasn't grateful for your vids!
@michaelfagan5229 Not at all! I appreciate those like yourself who comment good or bad. I appreciate all points of views on topics I discuss.
It's fun and I learn something sometimes. 😁
You are sharing very valuable experiences - thank you! But, it's funny how in some comments below that people feel it's wrong or dangerous to be disseminating this information. OF COURSE everyone's situation is different and we have to do our due diligence. I don't believe in cancel culture and I think everyone should use their own God-given brains to make their own choices. Hey, I like your energy and appreciate you sharing your research. Did you get to Gold level yet with Vine? I just started on Silver but was wondering what it's like reaching Gold. Have a blessed New Year ahead.
I genuinely appreciate your comment, and I am totally fine with people not agreeing with me. Many would rather complain and spit out trigger words to get people riled up because they don't like that I am doing things differently.
I made the gold level halfway through my first year, and the product selection is way better. I now focus on getting $0 products mostly just cause I don't need half the things offered to me. Plus, I donate 98% of the stuff I get because I don't need 80+ products every six months sitting in my house collecting dust. 😀
If you have questions about something Vine-related, I would be happy to find that information and answer them as best I can!
I've been in since 2020. That was a short year for me, I don't even think we had to pay. 2021 was a big year, we paid a few thousand (both of our stimulus checks.) 2022 we haven't even filed because things are crazy in our house and we just don't have the money to pay taxes on $40K worth of stuff. I'm tempted to do what they told you to do but at the same time, what if they come back and say it's wrong? They blame us as a taxpayer and expect us to pay all the back taxes. That's even worse. My only alternative is to spend everything we've got and also charge the rest to credit cards to pay the tax bill though. :( I wish we had a crystal ball to know if this was gonna come back to haunt us.
I've been audited before and I can say from personal experience that the IRS works with you because at the end of the day THEY WANT THEIR MONEY!
Ever business has workers who are terrible, but I've never (as of yet) come across one from the IRS when I needed assistance.
When you send in documents and or tax forms into the irs it will be examined, but sometimes that computer get your stuff, finds no issue and you think your good. Just call them and ask questions, dont be afraid to contact them.
When I called for the information I shared in this video, I did exactly what I did before (mostly).. Ask them to look at my tax return to confirm things look fine.
I was only able to get 1 agent to go back 5 years and the agent in the underwriting department went further back, but I didnt ask them to deep dive into my return. I only had this done when I was audited before, but I must have called at the perfect time to get those ywo specific people to do that extra work. The underwriting agent reviewed to ensure no errors was present.
I personally never choose to ignore the IRS, but when you don't have the money to pay them it doesn't stop them from fining you for not filing and working out an agreement plan with them.
Many people make the IRS out to be a monster, but in my experience 'Even when I was audited' I had a good experience, I researched and found my error and agreed with their findings. I even reached out to a tax lawyer at the time to run my situation past them for some guidance, but they told me to do exactly what I did in this video because it was minor:
1. Determine what they said I did wrong
2. Call them and get answers / ask questions
3. I chose to research the tax law in question and either agree or dispute it
4. Pay what they say or follow the dispute process and call them back for any other assistance.
Good luck!
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess Just as an aside, during my career as a CPA, I was the ONLY CPA employed in my office who had not previously been an IRS agent, including the owners. Boy, did I learn a lot, and one of the most valuable lessons I learned was that these are people who get up in the morning, drink their coffee, get dressed just like you and I do, and go to work. It's a job, and of course if they are GOOD agents, they CARE about their job. In my experience, most of them do.
Back when I was a new CPA and still had a lot to figure out, there was one particular agent assigned to the Dallas district who 99% of the time answered the phone when I called. She was SO GOOD. And if she noticed I was about to make a mistake (happened more than once), she'd explain until I understood the concept she was talking about, and made sure I did not only the right thing legally, but I handled it in the best way to get it through the IRS properly (just like your agents did for you on your phone calls.). It was a very sad day for me when they consolidated the call centers and that wonderful, stern-voiced lady was assigned to do something else.
PS I'm enjoying the discussion here.
@@georgene6767 This was the same experience (in a sense) when I worked with Turbotax as a call center agent. I only did that work to learn about taxes as much as possible. I met some very smart people, and I continue to learn every single day.
I enjoy the comments as well (good or bad)!
so let me get this straight-so if I put this Amazon vine 1099-nec form as HOBBY income on my taxes instead of self employment, I WON’T get taxed? Is that what I’m understanding?
Based on your comment, I'll clarify what I have said.
If you choose to file Vine income as a HOBBY, you are not seen as self-employed and will NOT pay self-employment taxes. This is, of course, if you meet the hobby requirements per IRS factors listed here.
www.irs.gov/newsroom/heres-how-to-tell-the-difference-between-a-hobby-and-a-business-for-tax-purposes
If you need clarity on anything else I've stated, just let me know 💚
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess ah okay, thank you so much for clarifying! 😅 I just wanted to make sure I understood you right. I’m still kinda new to this vine stuff and just started paying my own taxes last year. Thanks for sharing the link! That was really helpful 😊
@@piscespoet13 You're very welcome.
you absolutely pay income tax but not as much
@@yesimarabbit EXACTLY! From reading through the comments, I think some people are trying to hear "You don't pay taxes on Vine income if you do it this way." When in reality, the video is just telling people what to do if they filed incorrectly in the past. Filing it under Hobby Income, doesn't avoid taxes, but yes, it reduces them by not being in self-employment tax on them.
I get annoyed with Amazon vine coz every timei give s negative review such as 3 stars, just about everything gets rejected! So what am i supposed to do, do not give review at all or make a fake, untruthful review! Plus so many items are junk!
I could only ly assume it's certain words you use that trigger a decline. I can admit that when ever my reviews are rejected I resubmit all of them and it has always been accepted the second time. I think it's human vs machine when it comes to these reviews sometimes.
Does anyone know what happens if i dont even file the taxes for this year at all? I used to sometimes not do taxes until a year later and then do all my w2s at the same time but now im scared if i dont do ig ill be kicked out? I think amazon shouldnt even be aware if i file or not? So idk does anyone know.
Amazon isn't told you you file taxes or not. That's you choice to file taxes or not. It could hurt you down the road if you should've filed, but didn’t. Just be smart about you choices and calculate the risks of putting off filing now vs later.
I don't understand. Why are you filing an amended return if it was already filed it as a hobby?
Because I had an incorrect amount on my 1099 for Vine. I elaborate about that part right before I showed the tax form walk through. Not everyone will experience that issue, but since I did amended my return.
Add to all of this how, when you call Amazon and finally speak to a live representative, they tell you they've never even heard of this program and don't know anything about it, then send you off to email some sort of "community help" email address to ask your questions... Anyway, thank you for posting your videos about this! I have no interest in participating in their program. So shady! I'm not more thankful than ever that I turned down two CSR positions they offered me. Who knows *what* they're doing to screw those poor people over?!
I've had that same experience a few times when I contacted support about a shipping issue from a vine product. Most had no clue what I was talking about, now I just stick to emailing Vine support.
@7:09 thats on you, i'm afraid. You must assume that unless you are speaking specifically to the Office of the Taxpayer Advocate, that anyone you talk to at the IRS would be in an adversarial position to you.
The agent in question was nothing but helpful and willing to educate me with my questions I threw at him. Don't mistake his snarky comment that I deemed 'smart' to be anything more than him poking me because I 'knew' better. He was wonderful and fun to speak with.
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess I'm glad if that's your takeaway, but the role of the IRS is a collection agency with wide powers so people would be wise to be very cautious about unrepresented conversations with anybody but that particular office of the taxpayer advocate.
That's one side of the IRS and shouldn't be used as a means to deter people from using it as its other intended purpose... a resource for tax payers, accountants and CPAs.
Your caution of the IRS is very clear in this message, but this video deals nothing with collections but as a resources that everyone is privy too.
My hope for others who read this comment, is to don't allow the heightened fear or caution by others to deter you from using the IRS for its 'other' intended purpose of providing information when needed.
The worst thing anyone could do is write something off based on another persons personal opinion. Always try to form your own opinion as an individual and always get more than one opinion on these tax matters.
The relationship between Vine Voice and Amazon seems simple: Amazon will allow you access to lists of sellers who are in the Vine program so long as they decide they like your quality and quantity of reviews. That's it. Right???
Almost..
There isn't a list because sellers sign up for Vine on a whim without informing or talking to Amazon.
Yes, based on Viners choice to participate in the program per guidelines given by Amazon will keep you in the program wrightfully so, the 'problem' is the 1099 Amazon gives at the end of the year.
Is it a lot of ??? that have answers that fall in a 'Grey or unknown area.'
Most choose to just follow suit and file the form as normal even though the justification of calling the ETV 'income' is debatable.
That's what my stance is in my videos. (more or less) until tax professionals tell me something different.
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess Yeah I am in agreement as it stands at the moment. In agreement at least in spirit though not yet in practice because it's something I'm looking into before next steps.
I have to say, it makes my spidey-sense tingle when I read the part where they chose to write that "the tax authorities" asked them to send the 1099's out. I mean.... is this an old movie? Do they mean the IRS?
I feel like that should not be assumed on the grounds that it sounds like creative writing.
@tvtoms When I read numerous IRS agents that line they all laughed/chuckled. Tax authorities could be anyone honestly. 🤔
Joined the program a few months ago and the more I read up on the tax thing, the more I wonder if it's worth it. I've been trying to order taxable items sparingly (which is not difficult since 90% of the items are Temu cast-off junk) and stick with mostly zero ETV ones. Either that or I might just claim to be Jeff Bezos so not only won't I have to worry about paying taxes, but then the government will actually give me taxpayer money back.
Lol, Yeah I really use this for research purposes as an Amazon influencer. After I told them to removes 5 pages worth of stuff because I didnt want to review the products, I haven't had the urge to order anything. I hokding out just ling enough before I move on. I want to use the program to my advantage as mucb as possible outside of reviewing products.
I’m not sure what to do I started my taxes with h and r block they are saying I owe over 20000 dollars
In federal taxes I didn’t make any money on this I’m on social security not sure what to do next ?
I would first ask them to explain how this number cam about if you are filing with a person face to face. If you are doing your own taxes online, I would double check the numbers and where you placed your totals to make sure you are being taxed correctly.
You have the choice to file Vine income as a hobby or business is the hobby option applies to you.
That number is big and may be scary, but compose yourself and check your numbers and if you are filing as a business or decided if hobby is best for you.
Here is the hobby link ber the IRS: www.irs.gov/newsroom/heres-how-to-tell-the-difference-between-a-hobby-and-a-business-for-tax-purposes
Good luck!
$20,000??? For you to have to owe $20,000 due to Amazon Vine, you would have had to have reviewed over $100,000 worth of items. Are you sure that number is correct???
Well actually it was over 25,000 but with my credit it lowered it to 20,000 I am disabled and I also have a 4 year old who has autism spectrum disorder sever adhd primary cilla dyskinesia and and a rare chromosome disorder so that qualify him as a disabled child I was told you get extra credit for that . I didn’t sell any products I kept them or some came and caught on fire in my living room and some I donated to homeless people after I was done doing the review process so there no way I’ll pull that amount out . I didn’t realize I have to employment tax I thought it was sale tax . My number is not over 100,000 but they said I have to pay sales tax because I revived a 1099 nec
If you filed already your best bet would possibly be amending your return and filing as a hobby as you mentioned.
Follow up and let us know.
Let you know what?
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess if you get audited or what happens after you file 😁
Oh! Nothing 😀 I filed as I stated and I heard back from the IRS but not for Vine, I calculated my estimated taxes paid quarterly wrong, so they wanted their money lol.
you are a wealth of information. Pls keep us updated when you hear back from the IRS on the vine 1099 issue. @@MoneyStruggleSuccess
@flashtwosix7841 Thank you, But please know I don't expect to hear back from the IRS. I already heard from them due to my own error, so at this point I don't anticipate another letter in the mail. If ever in the future I hear from the IRS about Vine I will be transparent and inform everyone.
I will let you be the guinea pig! My accountant has no problem filling the 1099 form as a hobby, but that is it. That saves me self-employment tax but I the rest of the balance carries over to income. I wish that wasn't the case, but this seems way too risky. I do not receive cash for my services, but I receive free products. Similar to someone who receives an auto perk with their company and has to pay the tax value on that as well. Good luck, I am always concerned about Vine Jail, but the IRS Jail is way worse. LOL
This video is me sharing my experience only. What I do is for me only.
Who told you that if you mess up on your taxes you go straight to jail?
I'm so confused why that is the #1 thing mentioned vs paying a balance and a fee.
I really want to know.
Figure of speech. There’s no vine jail. Lighten up!
@box7781 I'm light as a feather! 😁
You just wouldn't believe the # of people who tell me this (not joking), and I never asked them that question.
So you walked right into that based on those interactions.
Oh, and there is something called 'Vine Jail' 🙄 ... I'm not even making it up. It's a term many Viners use when people get cut off and then, after a certain amount of time, gain access again.
@@ChildOfGodInternational The IRS hasn't mentioned any of that on the 'hobby information' website I talked about before. If you consider what you are doing as a hobby, you input whatever amount you personally have and submit. Like all tax-related events, they will reach out if they should ever have any questions.
I have a bad feeling that you’re going to get audited. The mere existence of the 1099-NEC overrides any possible explanations that you will offer them.
I have no reason to fear being audited since my tax returns are being viewed by people not a machine.
The person I spoke with worked in the department my tax return would be received by once mailed in (per him).
Say I do get audited, they will use the law as written that I too have access to to state why I may be wrong, which typically ( from my current knowledge) wouldn't get that far before when whom ever at the IRS physically review my tax return, they will send me a letter stating I'm wrong or they decline my position.
Our rights as tax payers is to challenge an IRS decision if you think they are wrong and I am more than capable to go down that road if this scenario happens.
I'm 10 toes down on my position that this tax obligation is wrong and I will not just take it without pushing the envelope to get answers!
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess And, even if you do get audited, what's the consequences? You will just pay taxes you already knew about. It's not like they're going to penalize you harshly.
@@BLR1GBattlemaster 100% correct!
Saying to file as HOBBY then saying to use a Schedule C form for BUSINESS is an “interesting” approach. And remember, the IRS can go back an unlimited number of years (whether you file or not) if your actions are seen as FRAUDULENT.
Why is Fraudulent in bold?😅
Fraud has no connection to my video, but your opinion may think it is and that's okay.
However, if your reading his comment, dont take the bold 'fraudulent' word as a scare tactic. It's in my opinions an emphasis on being careful however you choose to file your taxes.
You and everyone else can take a few hours out of your day to call the IRS to gather your own information just as I did.
Lady has it straight from The Man that 1099-NEC is for contractors and it does not apply. Why bust like this? I am grateful for this information. It takes time and effort to get the information and then share it with us. Thank you and keep it coming.
Just to clarify - I was never told the 1099 NEC is only for contractors by any one person or entity. I have seen this form used for other tax purposes outside of contractors as well. 🤗
Everything else stated I vibe with 1000% 💚
It's not fraud when things are so murky. It's merely an interpretation of things. Fraud would be knowing you can't do something and being deceptive. I don't see that as what this is.
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess What your told on the phone by an IRS agent doesn't hold up in court. Please stop with these types of videos.
These Vine tax videos remind me of the soverign citizen videos where the soverign citizen carries around papers explaining how they researched and talked to people, till the cops drag them out of their car and arrest them. So this soverign citizen's logic is that since 1099's are for independent contractors and she is not an independent contractor since amazon had no right to make her an independent contractor, blah, blah, blah. Guees what? 1099's are not just for independent contractors. Your argument started with a fallacy. If you win a car in a sweepstakes, they file a 1099, you owe taxes. You win more than $600 in the lottery or on a cruise ship, they file a 1099, you owe taxes. Certainly you are not an independent contractor in those cases, yet you owe taxes. And Amazon didn't file 1099s originally when the Vine program started. It wasn't till the IRS started cracking down. Why would amazon want this? It makes it harder to recuit reviewers. I am in Vine, but I also knew about 1099s and taxes. The best you can do is call it a hobby and at least get out of self employment tax, but you can't deduct anything, and if the amount is more than just a little, the IRS will not accept "it's a hobby". I control it by only reviewing stuff I will actually use.The only way Amazon could get out of the 1099 filing is to ask for the stuff back after the review, but then why would you or I or anyone do it if we are not getting anything in return? They would have to pay us, and then they are back to filing 1099s.:)
I read your paragraph in its entirety, so thanks for commenting. Your 'fallacy' remark is 100% laughable and opinion based.
However, your tax knowledge (like others is limited) and to constantly compare Vine to 'winning a car or the lottery' is not the same in terms of taxes being due.
Unlike the soverign citizen videos you speak of, I'm not holding a position based on my own research and speaking to random people.
My position has been confirmed by those that matter (the IRS) and not solely in my head. Thats a big difference.
Those like yourself, will continue to have a strong opposition and that's okay.
You're not the IRS and your 'opinions' don't matter at the end of the day.
The IRS's conclusions are all that matter since that's who I must deal with on a yearly basis.
I would suggest you be a bit more receptive to my videos and I'm sure you will learn something new.
I'm a big fan of learning and researching and I see you aren't, but you should give it a try. 😀
@@MoneyStruggleSuccess Do you know what a fallacy is? Basically, you are saying that you do not owe taxes because you are not an independent contractor. Whether you are an independent contractor or not has nothing to do with it. What matters is how much and how often. All the IRS agent did is tell you how to state your sovereign citizen's claim. The IRS will simply deny it and send you a tax bill. I suppose when that happens you will make a new video.:)
@roberthansen9876 I've given you my response and that's all I'm giving you. Thanks for watching ❤️
Please read up on the difference in reporting requirements and issuing requirements for a 1099-NEC, 1099-MISC, and W-2G, all of which you have described in your scenario and all of which have different tax treatments. 😏
You can’t be in the vine program without accepting Amazons contract.
What contract?
Vine’s program policies aren’t an employment contract though. So you’re comparing apples to oranges here.