Hello Clarke, First-time viewer here-I was referred to your videos because I install and advise other Hans Christian owners with LiFePO4 battery banks on boats. I’m taking the time to write this because it’s easier to address you directly and publicly than to continue answering concerned or curious individuals I’ve already worked with or who are looking to install similar systems. After cruising through your videos, I found your approach to charging interesting. I see no inherent issue with it, but it seems more convoluted than it needs to be in practice. My opinion is entirely based on firsthand experience installing, servicing, and using LiFePO4 chemistry since 2018. Let me go through the reasons to use a DC-DC charger from a cruiser’s perspective. These are points you didn’t quite mention but are essential for a fair argument about their place in a system. 1. Not All DC-DC Chargers Are the Same • I have experience with the exact Renogy model you use, and I can attest it’s not a unit I recommend or would ever use. Its lack of control in charge profiles and the RF pollution it emits while running can disrupt your VHF radio. Specifically, the RF interference dramatically reduces the range of AIS targets at sea, which is critical for safety. • After research and testing, I initially used the Sterling BBW1260. It’s highly efficient (~94%) and waterproof, making it perfect for the marine environment, especially on boats that aren’t completely dry. This was my go-to until recently, when I switched to the Victron Orion-Tr Smart 50A. It’s also IP-rated, equally efficient, integrates with the Victron network, and is fully adjustable via the app. You can even run multiple units in parallel and configure them independently if more output is needed. 2. Redundancy • When designing electrical systems for offshore cruising, redundancy and system separation are critical. • In my setup, the engine is wired directly to the starter battery using the OEM wiring, with a burnout fuse placed within a foot of the starter battery. Optionally, I include a kill switch to isolate the engine leads for maintenance. • From the engine side of the burnout fuse, a lead runs to the DC-DC charger, which is also fused for its appropriate current rating. The DC-DC charger connects directly to the LiFePO4 house bank. These chargers are voltage-sensitive, so they activate only when the engine is running and disconnect when it’s off. Why is this important? If there’s any issue with the lithium bank-such as a cell failure (unlikely) or a BMS failure (more likely in lightning-prone areas)-the starter battery remains unaffected. The BMS and other electronics are sensitive to EMP hits, but with this setup, a mechanically governed diesel engine can still start and run independently. While your system appears to achieve this as well, my design ensures the lead-acid starter battery remains isolated with less wiring. Additionally, the newer Victron Orion has a “backwards start” mode, allowing it to reverse current to help a weak or dead starter battery. Alternatively, a bypass switch can be added to combine the banks temporarily for starting before separating them again. 3. Alternator Considerations • Using a DC-DC charger allows the use of an internally regulated or stock alternator, which simplifies installation and reduces costs when upgrading to lithium. • Sizing the DC-DC charger is straightforward: aim for about 50% of the alternator’s rated output. For example, on a 60A alternator, set the charger to 30A; on a 120A alternator, it can run at full 50A output. This prevents overheating and extends alternator lifespan. Small-frame alternators are particularly sensitive to heat, and pushing them too hard will dramatically shorten their lifespan-or burn them out entirely. Replacing an alternator in a foreign port is expensive and inconvenient, and overloading it compromises your propulsion system’s reliability. While external regulation can increase output, I generally avoid it for smaller setups. Engines with single V-belts are typically limited to 60A. Dual V-belts can handle more, but they’ll generate excessive belt dust from the load. Even serpentine belts transfer significant side-load stress to the crankshaft and water pump bearings, which aren’t designed for such strain. Crankshaft and water pump bearing wear might not show immediate symptoms, but over time, this can lead to significant failures, which are costly and challenging to repair while cruising. 4. Proven Reliability • This design has been 100% reliable in every system I’ve designed and installed. My primary concern is always ensuring the engine and its components remain operational and uncompromised to maximize their lifespan and reliability. If you have any questions or want to discuss this further, please feel free to reach out. Thanks for your videos and for fostering these valuable discussions within the community. - Jon Neely S/V Prism
Thanks for your well thought out comment. I'm not feeling my best today as I just got out of the hospital yesterday but I would like to explain a few things. If you send me an email at sailingtemptress@gmail.com maybe we can set up a call. In short it seems the dc-dc units you are talking about are using an active switching power supply. Good on them for that. But they are still charging the li wrong. The heart of my argument is to protect the li directly with its own charge controller Protect the alternator with protections to make it a true continuous duty device. And then basically the best part is no part.
@@SailingVesselPrism if the lead acid is low or faulty your fixed current guess of appropriate charge current system, that could cause full fielding of the alternator. If Clark recommends a system that reacts to alternator temperature, and you aren't, and make no mention of even measuring it how can you confidently say your system will have a longer alternator life? And the water pump bearings are totally designed for the load, I did validation testing in automotive for over 10 years and can also confidently say if alternator load changes crankshaft wear you have an engine oiling/lube pressure problem.
@@AndrewHemstreetI always recommend monitoring your starter battery voltage. A failing starter battery often shows signs, such as hesitation during starting, as it operates within a closed system. Replacing your starter battery every 5-6 years is good practice, as that is typically their expected lifespan. With nearly 20 years of experience in the marine industry, I can confidently say that small marinized tractor engines are not designed to handle sustained alternator loads above 120 amps. While they can manage such loads, there are inevitable negative effects. For example, the water pump will likely fail sooner when using a 120-amp or higher alternator compared to the original 30-amp setup. It’s also worth noting that higher alternator loads increase the mechanical load on the crankshaft. This added strain can offset the load on the front main bearing and seal, leading to accelerated wear over time. While these components are designed to handle normal operating loads, sustained high loads-such as those from a high-output alternator-can push the system beyond its intended parameters. This is particularly true in marine environments, where engines often run at steady-state RPMs for long periods. The increased side-loading from a higher alternator output can eventually lead to premature wear of the front main bearing and seal. Regarding alternator temperature sensors, I agree they can be beneficial, especially in high-output setups. However, in my experience, they are often unnecessary if you keep the alternator’s load within 50% of its rated output. When properly ventilated, the alternator’s temperature will typically not exceed that of the engine. As for crankshaft wear, I acknowledge that if it were to become a significant issue, it could indicate a separate oiling or lubrication problem. However, the added load from a high-output alternator still plays a role in increasing the stress on the system as a whole, which is something to consider when making modifications.
@@AndrewHemstreet I always recommend monitoring your starter battery voltage. A failing starter battery often shows signs, such as hesitation during starting, as it operates within a closed system. Replacing your starter battery every 5-6 years is good practice, as that is typically their expected lifespan. With nearly 20 years of experience in the marine industry, I can confidently say that small marinized tractor engines are not designed to handle sustained alternator loads above 120 amps. While they can manage such loads, there are inevitable negative effects. For example, the water pump will likely fail sooner when using a 120-amp or higher alternator compared to the original 30-amp setup. It’s also worth noting that higher alternator loads increase the mechanical load on the crankshaft. This added strain can offset the load on the front main bearing and seal, leading to accelerated wear over time. While these components are designed to handle normal operating loads, sustained high loads-such as those from a high-output alternator-can push the system beyond its intended parameters. This is particularly true in marine environments, where engines often run at steady-state RPMs for long periods. The increased side-loading from a higher alternator output can eventually lead to premature wear of the front main bearing and seal. Regarding alternator temperature sensors, I agree they can be beneficial, especially in high-output setups. However, in my experience, they are often unnecessary if you keep the alternator’s load within 50% of its rated output. When properly ventilated, the alternator’s temperature will typically not exceed that of the engine. As for crankshaft wear, I acknowledge that if it were to become a significant issue, it could indicate a separate oiling or lubrication problem. However, the added load from a high-output alternator still plays a role in increasing the stress on the system as a whole, which is something to consider when making modifications.
@@Clarks-Adventure I’m sorry to hear you’ve not been feeling well. I hope you’re recovering quickly. I appreciate your perspective on the DC-DC units and the use of an active switching power supply. From my experience, I’ve found that these chargers have had no ill effect on battery life. In fact, I recently conducted a capacity test on batteries I installed in 2018, and they’re still providing over their rated capacity. To me, this is strong evidence that the charge profiles used by these systems do not damage the lithium chemistry. Additionally, a properly functioning BMS will actively balance the battery at the top of the charge curve, and all the chargers I use and recommend do an excellent job of preventing overcharging, regardless of the current. I truly believe these systems provide a safe and reliable way to maintain battery health, and my philosophy is based on real-world usage. The system I’m talking about has gone through about 500 full cycles, and it’s only a 200Ah bank, which was a significant investment back when LiFePO4 was still quite expensive.
I dunno Clark. You’ve gotta state your implicit bias. You’re selling a direct alternative to the DC to DC charger. The Victron Orion Xs has very high efficiency and I’ve never heard anything but positives re: Victron products in charging Lifepo4. Alternator to lead to DC/DC to LifePo4 is widely accepted as the best approach of mixing lead and lithium without smoking your old alternator.
You are right I should have gone into detail on how I don't like the Victron charging curve for li here in this video. It's covered in the how to charge li video released a month or so back and in some of the BankManager's videos. But of course everyone doesn't watch all my videos. If you are interested it's covered in the BankManager section of MarineDCAC.com
Well maybe, if your alternator is small. But what do you do if you have a 150 Amp alternator or bigger ? How many DC to DC chargers will you need? And at what cost? Many catermarans with large pv arrays don't even bother with connecting the alternator to a lithium bank. But what do you dovif you have a monohull, with limited solar capacity. You need to be able to get meaningful power from your engine. And DC to DC chargers don't cut it if you've got a 150 Amp coming in.
@@markreynolds8630150 amp alternator will rarely charge over 100 amps. It gets hot and starts limiting . 2 Orion Xc dc to dc would work to pull nearly full output
Victron Orion DC-DC seems to work fine with lifepo4. I have one charging a 100ah auxiliary battery on my truck for a fridge, etc. Efficiency is 89% according to the spec.
Victrons DCDC are programable, the max charge voltages etc are set by the user according to batterysytem needs. If set correctly it will not overcharge. They are inefficient but so is any engine alternator creating 50/50 heat/electricity. Why we dont want to push the alternator too much.
You can't charge LiFePO4 safely to any voltage. There is more to it than that. For example if you charge at .5C you need to charge to 14.6v. If you charge at .01C you are overcharged and doing damage at 13.7v You have to account for the loads on while charging. Your dc-dc can be putting out a known current but your refrigerator might be burning half of that so the safe target voltage needs to be much lower
I use a Victron Orion to charge my windless battery (Lead-Acid) using my LiFePo4 main battery bank. This way I have smaller gauge wire for the long distance from aft to bow. Because the windless is used typically once or twice a day at most, the Orion does a good job of slow charging over the 23hrs plus that the windless is not used.
Clark, I found that a DC to DC charger is an easy way to isolate an auxiliary battery from the starting battery in my pickup truck. Quick, easy and only 4 wires not counting the remote if needed. Not that a voltage sensitive rely wouldn't work but the compact package and simplicity of the setup works for me. Like many things in electricity there are many ways around the block. Keep the good stuff coming.
Yep lots of ways to solve the problem. But $200 to turn 24 amps into 20 vs $20 to move unlimited current (OK, gets hot over 140a). Not a hard decision for a cheap guy like me.
I would be interested in how the DC/DC charger is overcharging LFP. I own a Victron DC/DC Charger? I can custom all the charging parameters. (Main reason why I went for Victron instead of Renogy) Have never had a problem with overcharging.
You don't know you have a problem with over charging ... Yet... My issue includes that they try to charge the li to a voltage. That just doesn't work. It causes shortened battery life. To understand why these don't charge correctly you would first have to understand how to charge LiFePO4 correctly. I suggest this video th-cam.com/video/3USAqjntxIs/w-d-xo.html
Hi Clarke, got to comment on this. From the setup on my sailboat i can only say i am very pleased with my Mastervolt DC-DC Charger. It serves to protect the engine-alternator-lead starter battery setup by coupling the starter battery with the LFP-bank. So you can charge at max 50A at 12V (adjustable, i use 13,8V) you're LFP with no worries for your engine-circuit. While you are running your engine, you can operate the charger if necessary (eg turn off if you're LFP Bank is allmost full, or turn the amps down when motoring to your mooring takes longer then anticipated). The programmable output can be parametrised so the charge stops automatically, the BMS at the LFP kicks in only as emergency-stop, not as normal procedure to stop charging. It works great, needs very little attention (only when you plan to motor for a longer trip) en is quite fool-proof! On longer motor sessions 8-12 hours I tipically put it to 15A (from a 115A alternator) (on my small 280Ah-Lfp). Second benefit is that the Charger can function as an electric source for the boats Service Circuit with the engine as generator backing up the LFP-bank if necessary, without the need to manually cross the engine circuit to the service circuit. This is a marine grade piece of kit which is not cheap but very functional, and desirable!
Thanks for your note Martin, I agree they fit a use case that must be addressed But I offer another solution that addresses these issues in other ways, better ways. You may like to see my li kills alternators and my charging li videos. The three of these together show what I claim is a better solution to these issues. Basically it has been found that charging li batteries to a voltage is not good for them in an active installation. And basically the charge controller guys marketing department put a LiFePO4 label on a lead charging mode and called it a day because, frankly, the proper solution is really difficult. I attest that I found the proper solution. MarineDCAC.com
@Clarks-Adventure Hi Clarke, as others point out there are different use cases that might have different preferred solutions. Using the DC-DC solution when replacing the lead Service Batteries with LFP (as part of total rewiring and overhaul of the electrics aboard) has worked flawlessly for the past 4 years. Don't see how being able to couple the small starter battery to the household system would have any significance, apart from running kWatt household appliances on board (which i don't). My 'usecase' being in a climate prohibiting the PV-panels to provide any support to crank the lead battery to the 'coupling Voltage' of 13,2V, at least from mid Octobre till March.... Don't agree that Marine grade DC-DC chargers are unfit to charge LFP, as long as they can be programmed to stop charging at the correct(!) parameters (% residual/tail current over x minutes)
Well I offered my videos. Do as you wish it's your investment. I have an upcoming video planned where I'll be listing the academic papers and studies that explain how charging to voltage shortens life.
I recently upgraded from lead to Lfp my battery charger which I only use when using a Generator it puts out 29.2 battery specs says 29.2 and it seems to be doing an excellent job do you think Itcan over charge the battery? I also wanna add I put it on AGM settings so that it do go into desulphation mode.
I go into that and my charging lithium video and a lot of other places. In short, I've found you simply can't charge LiFePO4 cells correctly to a voltage. There is so much more to it than that if you want the longest life from those cells.
Thanks a lot for all your explanations. If I can ask you a question: I got one of those Renergy 40 Amps for my van (didn't install it yet) I was thinking about putting the on/off switch like you did, but I was wondering if switching off and on when engine is running can damage the 190 Amps alternator? I have a Lithium- Gel 300-250 Amps battery bank. (I learn from you how to combine, no bbm in my design, I charge as Gel type from solar). Blessings!
I see no problem with using it that way from an alternator point of view. The alternator will just see a load going on and off. It would look similar to turning your headlamps (maybe a big light bar) on and off.
I assumed this would mostly be watched by fans and the details are covered in other videos "li kills alternators" and "how to charge li". So I made a short video for once. I guess lots of people only click on short videos so this has become popular. Because it's short. So it's not liked because it's short...
What do you think about putting one of these between my dumb 12v alternator on the starter battery to bump up to 24v to charge my lead house bank but before the BBMS and lithium
Absolutely not. It's likely to kill the diodes in the alternator and could burn out the dc-dc. Both systems expect a battery on the source side. And you would severely limit the current generated. Get a stock sized 24v alternator.
@Clarks-Adventure yes I already have a very large alternator for the BBMS house system. I just thought I could put one of these between my start battery bank and the lead in my house bank since the only thing the start bank does is start the motors and run the gauges for the boat so after I start the motor they pretty much do nothing but recharge the start batteries fairly quickly
I love mine. Doubles as a solar controller. With a 460AH, I have power for days, and it's charged up again after I get to my next camping spot. The solar just extends my time a little bit, I could do without it. And the stock 160 amp alternator has no trouble with it at all.
The Victron Orion XS 50 amp dc to dc is great! The REAL reason to use one is so you don’t trash your alternator because of BMS disconnect when the battery is full. That will burn the diodes. Don’t need it with the bbms because the lead will stay in, but without it this is the thing. This Victron unit produces very little heat and no fan.
Yes I should have talked about that. There is a lot I should have done better on this video. I filmed it while sick but I didn't realize it at the time. I just got out of the hospital today, had my appendix out so I expect to feel better soon Funny story, I woke up in my own bed. It was 7:30. Dark out I was confused as to if we're 7am or 7pm (on Saturday!). So I released the video. Turns out it was Friday night. That's why the video is so early. There were painkillers involved....
The battery lead battery provides a constant load for your alternator. Li doesn't. I have a video on this that goes into detail. It's popular, and should be easy to find. Search on Clark's adventure li kills alternators
A pair of Victron Orion XS 50s paired with a 350 amp alternator totally changed my Truck camper life. I reliably get 85 amps at 12 volt with my Diesel f250 at idle and full 100 amps at just above idle.We stay at no hookup harvest host and state parks a lot and if we run the AC it hits our 1000 amp hr lipo4 bank hard. Before the Orion's we were forced to get a plug every few nights to recharge because the 540 watts of solar were overwhelmed. I wired the system for up to four Orion XS 50s but only could get two when they first came out due to availability. I think I will stick to just the two with our travel style it seems to be sufficient with three to four hours of travel fully recovering the batteries from running rooftop AC overnight. I originally had a Renogy like you were talking about and I can tell you it is not in the same league as the Victron Orion XS 50. By the way it was me that gave you the tip on the Ford charging limit to trailer connection. Enjoy your videos but you need to check out the Orion before condemning all DC-DC chargers they serve a purpose in mobile systems as a safe bridge between the vehicle and camping unit.
But they just don't charge the li correctly for a long life. That's my biggest issue. To understand why these don't charge incorrectly you would first have to understand how to charge LiFePO4 correctly. I suggest this video th-cam.com/video/3USAqjntxIs/w-d-xo.html
So, if I'm running an electric boat, with no alternator, 48V bank for the motors, and 12V for the house, how would you keep both banks charged? If I had a mixed lead/lithium setup, I might use your Bank Manager, but assume both banks are lithium only.
We would have to talk about your specific requirements but I'd suggest you just don't use the 12v battery at all. A simple switching power supply gives you a cheap reliable 12v source. You still pay the heat loss but now you are only paying that for your actual loads and not having to maintain a 12v battery
If you want real handholding I have a Patreon tier called Dream Believers that has morphed into a system design consult thing. We go through whatever you want over the phone. 50 bucks a month, drop out or down to a cheap tier when you think you paid enough for the help you got. Honor system.
I have a Renogy DC-DC charger and a Victron DC-DC charger. They do exactly what they claim to do and from my experience they do it well. In my Honda Odyssey I definitely wanted to limit the draw off the alternator and changing the alternator was out of the question at the time. I’ve used the Renogy as a temporary power supply for some led lights and it worked great. I’m not really sure what the issue is and what he thinks the solution would be. I plan to go to 48 volts in another van build and will be using Victron dc-dc units full time for 12 volts. I’m about to redo a van build and will adding a Victron dc-dc as a power supply to sensitive equipment that I don’t want to see over 13.6 volts. I already have one running off my alternator to charge my lithium batteries and it works great.
My issue includes that they try to charge the li to a voltage. That just doesn't work. It causes shortened battery life. To understand why these don't charge correctly you would first have to understand how to charge LiFePO4 correctly. I suggest this video th-cam.com/video/3USAqjntxIs/w-d-xo.html
You can't charge LiFePO4 safely to any voltage. There is more to it than that. For example if you charge at .5C you need to charge to 14.6v. If you charge at .01C you are overcharged and doing damage at 13.7v You have to account for the loads on while charging. Your dc-dc can be putting out a known current but your refrigerator might be burning half of that so the safe target voltage needs to be much lower I'm glad you are happy with it and that's fine But I'm saying your batteries will be happier being charged correctly. And after you don't have to replace them you might be happier
Whats wrong with using a high output alternator to charge the huge lifepo4 48v house bank and the dc to dc to charge the two dumb 12v lead starter batteries? Barely any use (and therefore loss), will keep the starter batteries topped off, and lets you have a 48v house bank.
@@Clarks-AdventureYou can use the ElectroMaax Surge Suppressor (SSP) to protect the alternator against all causes of voltage spikes. Great insurance in Lithium installations.
I have been using this Renology 40 amp DC to DC Charger for 4 years on my Sailboat to charge my 700 amp/hr battery bank on days when there is just no sun. I have a 80 amp alternator on my Yanmar 3ym30. It would diminish the output with the group 27 lead acid battery so I would have to switch off and on every 30 minutes to keep the out put up (recharging the start Battery) I recently replaced the Start battery with a new 150 amp hr AGM. Now it will run for hours before the output drops and brings my systems voltage up to 13 volts..... I monitor this with my Victron shunt. I know that in the winter with my aging solar panels My batteries would be damaged with out the the ability to use this 40 amp DC To DC . One of the best additions to my house system i have installed. I am still trying to understand Clark's logic of running a Lead acid battery in my LiFePo4 House bank.I would never mix and match LifePo4 ....WTF??? If you have a internally regulated alternator (like my stock Mitsubishi) You need this to charge off your alternator. . LiFePo4 batteries will make the alternator run full tilt and suck the life out of it. (danger Will Robisin)The other way to go is to install a high output alternator Like a Balmar with a external regulator ..( $2k) I love my Renology DC to DC charger..Just remember to use one that is 1/2 the output of your Alternator's ...
My issue includes that they try to charge the li to a voltage. That just doesn't work. It causes shortened battery life. To understand why these don't charge correctly you would first have to understand how to charge LiFePO4 correctly. I suggest this video th-cam.com/video/3USAqjntxIs/w-d-xo.html
My victron one works great. It saved me the massive cost of having to purchase an additional solar panel and an additional charge controller for my lithium battery. You're right about the output though. They do limit the capacity that they are advertised.
It's a great solution if you are using LiFePO4, and TBH I can't see why anyone would not upgrade to that chemistry as soon as possible. As far as overcharging LiFePO4, it has a LiFePO4 mode, so it outputs the correct voltage and the BMS in the battery is going to prevent overcharging. I would not buy any LiFePO4 that doesn't have an integrated BMS. Integrated BMS does potentially cause an additional point of failure, but I assume most people will have 2 batteries and if I was doing Bluewater cruising, I would bring a backup BMS. I would get the 40A DC-DC though or just get something like a Victron Energy MultiPlus 12/3000/120-50. But I have to disagree, the unit you mention has it's place, with any chemistry, and certainly is not a problem for most of reasons you list. As far as heat, well any buck-boost device is going to generate heat, that is why they have fans, and sure they are not 100% efficient but they are above 90%, you really can't get much better than that in this application. I mean you can't hook a LiFoPO4 directly to the alternator anyway, so not sure why this device doesn't make sense to you.
I strongly suggest you watch my charging LiFePO4 video from this summer. I show why you simply can't charge LiFePO4 safely to a voltage. Just because the marketing department put a li setting on a charge controller doesn't make it correct for charging LiFePO4. Or the story is available in text under the MarineDCAC.com page.
I have being using 2 small solar controllers for years one from the van battery to the LiPo and other from the LiPo to the engine battery with on/off switches.
Yes the mppt versions are also a switching power supply in their heart. But two things. If the panels are putting out a close to optimal voltage a pwm controller is actually more efficient. But, usually since solar input can be all over the place (clouds and such) and we might want to use strings of panels running at a higher voltage. This loss can be greatly offset by the savings. So I argue it makes more sense in that application
I didn't realize you were selling a $550 device; I think I get it now. I will stick to CC from a properly sized DC-DC charger and let the BMS do the work. All you need here is a 40amp CC DC-DC power supply that is voltage limited to 14.6v. Ohms law does the rest. People make this way too hard. For that matter you can charge these batteries with a bench CC power supply. You turn the knob to 14.6v and 40 amps and forget about it. Another important thing is that these batteries are extremely tolerant of less that optimal charging at the top as long as you don't exceed 14.6v input voltage. You are much more likely to have problems from calendar aging than from not managing top balancing with Apollo lunar mission precision. Let's face it, these batteries are relatively cheap and will only get cheaper. Buying two of thes 100Ah or 150 Ah $200ish batteries every 10 years instead of every 12 years is a non-issue. Don't sweat the small stuff. I am much more concerned about being able to make a great gin and tonic when I am chilling at anchor in Avalon.
I guess I realize you aren't learning about li life from the academic papers or forums of experts Best of luck to you but you won't be getting 12 years of daily cycle life from these charging them that way. More like 3 to 6. But we all make our own decisions in life. I am sorry for the cost of the device (and there is a version that costs $330). But when you produce things we'll in small quantities that what they cost.
Seems like that one is using an active switching power supply. They are more efficient so they do better in the DC DC part but still not as good as a plain wire. This still lacks in the battery charger part You can't charge LiFePO4 safely to any voltage. There is more to it than that. For example if you charge at .5C you need to charge to 14.6v. If you charge at .01C you are overcharged and doing damage at 13.7v You have to account for the loads on while charging. Your dc-dc can be putting out a known current but your refrigerator might be burning half of that so the safe target voltage needs to be much lower
Thanks for another great video Clark. I'm curious, you have mentioned your truck camper before, how do you have it set up? "How does the expert do his own stuff"? Maybe an idea for another video. I would purchase a bank manager if I could see how it works in a setup like mine.
I am a CT and I have built my own Buck regulators and have yet to have negative results. Alternators can take a 60 amp and up load so not too likely a little battery is going to draw enough to damage it and I have them fused and I have active current limiting so no quick peaks of current. Anything better than analog series LM317 or 7805. Buck regulators are very much overrated by sellers by about 5 times but account for that and they are still efficient.
My 1980 48" ketch with leadAcid system, has a separate battery bank for the thruster, with a 40A DC-DC "charger" in between, and it will not charge the leadAcids for the thruster as long as the voltage for the rest of the boat is below a certain treshold (that is, it will charge when the generator is running or when I'm on shore power). Everything you say is correct of course, but I kind of fail to see how that could have been done in a better way ?,........ some kind of voltage control relay with the addition of a shunt to make sure the current is only allowed one way maybe, but do'no if there's such products around ;-) .......
Yours is a great use of this device. It charges lead fine as I say in the video and as long as you are ok with the power loss, and I would be in this application, it's what I would use.
They are very helpful for battery mismatches. Eg a 12V vehicle, with a 48V nominal LiFePO4 battery bank. But they come in varying grades of quality, efficiency, and capabilities like proper charging
Ahoy Clark ... Quick battery question. I'm ready to pull the trigger on the Bank Manager system to add Lithium aboard my liveaboard. I followed a lot of your battery reviews as they were unfolding for a while, went away on other projects and am now back and ready. Main Question: Which battery company did you finally land on to recommend as the best value? I'm wanting 2 - 200 Ah Lithium. These will be added to my 3 existing 200Ah Prevailer Sorenson gel cell's. Thanks in advance .... PS: Here's wishing you a swift recovery! ⛵
Thanks Bill I'm still in bed but off the painkillers so I'm answering comments The leaderboards are up to date except for price as that changes so fast. For cheapest I like the elefast but for best at a fair price using my discount code I prefer the VoltGo
@@Clarks-Adventure Ahoy again Clark.... Firstly, good to know you're off the pain meds ( maybe some Milk Thistle for a liver cleanse after those, just for good measure?) Thanks for the swift reply, I appreciate your suggestions. If I might add that I never again plan to have my keel in freezing weather, for me if the palm tree doesn't grow there, I don't go there is a motto I adopted a while back. Also I'm needing the configuration of 2 200ah cases to get through the opening one at a time, for my planned mounting spot. If I could impose again on your thoughts, with those two things in mind, would the Redodo be the next in line of best for me? Thanks again if you have time to respond ... Bill ... and oh yeah since I'm on decade 8 that VoltGo 400 is likely a bit above my wrestling weight in tight spaces these days methinks ha-ha.
@@billpeterson7446 voltGo has a 200ah offering. I believe my coupon still works And you could get 4 of the elefast. The new Redodo seem to have Bluetooth (good) but though I haven't seen one myself yet they seem to use the same BMS LiTime uses. I really don't like the one I reviewed (So bad).
@@Clarks-Adventure Thanks very much Captain Clark, and yes your coupon works on the VoltGo 200ah. Also, looking into it, Elefast now has a 200ah offering at Amazon price of $339 free shipping. (the link in your leaderboard led to an "unavailable" batt). Looks like I've got some wallet checking and deciding to do. :) Cheers and I hope you're feeling even better today. Bill
Yep and it needs to be. But there there is a value as solar voltage can be all over the place If your panels are very constant in output a pwm charge controller is better. But in this case we should be competing with a plain piece of wire. And the loss of a switching power supply fails to the wire and a better charge controller.
As a retired engineer, my DC-DC charger works great in my Van. Their is absolutely not wrong with these units when installed correctly. Check your alternator size first. Have 300@ lithiums. I see skinny wires attached to your Renogy charger, hope you didn't install it that way.
Those wires are fully up to the task I described in the video. To understand why these don't charge incorrectly you would first have to understand how to charge LiFePO4 correctly. I suggest this video th-cam.com/video/3USAqjntxIs/w-d-xo.html
I use a Renogy DC/DC charger on my trawler to charge my windlass battery. I only turn it on when my engine is running. Both systems are lead acid so I have had no problems in the year I've been using it.
I bought the 40/60A version when I first installed LiFePO house batt. I removed the DCDC soon after. Too expensive to throw away so it sits in my parts shelf maybe one day I find use for it.
I’d like to charge an e-bike (48v)battery from my car. (Prius) Maybe I should just use an inverter and my stock AC charger or a bench power supply….. If there is a better method I’d appreciate being pointed in the correct direction. Thanks!
Yes likely. E bike batteries aren't LiFePO4 typically so my device can't help you. So do the best you can and charge it in a safe place. Fire scares me with those
Unfortunately batteries do not charge themselves and need external input. That input will vary based upon your circumstances. In fact, a person may have several "inputs" based upon their current situation. I have a very nice Victron Orion XS that is pretty darn efficient, will do 50 amps to the battery bank, has no fan and no big heat sink. My alternator has to power a lot of things, not just send energy to my battery bank so having the ability to control the load to the battery bank can be very helpful especially when the vehicle is sitting at idle. This unit is designed to work for a wide sub-section of people with a variety of alternators and use cases so, again, having the ability to control the load allows it to be useful for many use cases.
I agree they fit a use case that must be addressed But I offer another solution that addresses these issues in other ways, better ways. You may like to see my li kills alternators and my charging li videos. The three of these together show what I claim is a better solution to these issues.
What about how they charge li? After hearing my point you can't really say that without explaining your position. Or it just comes off as false confidence.
I get what you're saying. I have an Ecoflow Delta Pro and Extra Battery for home backup only. My alternator charger is a good thing to supplement it power if needed. That is my use case.
Sure. It will put the power in but slowly and isn't good for finishing the charge on a daily basis. But if this is for special case charging I think it's a great idea. Charging li imperfectly is damaging but only slightly so per instance. So every day it is proven to greatly shorten the life of li. But like 10 times a year. No worries. I'd set mine up that if BankManagers weren't free for me Just make sure your daily charger is treating your li right
There isn't a lot you can do with those power stations. I just got something similar in for review that I'm planning to use for hurricanes in my Florida house. I feel that their batteries will die sooner than a well cared for component system but these aren't really for daily use are they, so it just matters less
@Clarks-Adventure I just got mine for Emergency backup only. Had system 2.5 years and never lost power. But I have loaned them out multiple times for family that did lose power.
Like everything, these devices are not a silver bllet to fix everything. They are a tool that solves a problem. And problems can usually be solved in multiple ways. People who use these tools need to have some responsibilty and accountability to their particular problem. Long runs between an alternator and a battery system means the 12v alternator will deliver a high enough voltage to charge a battery. Especially if the battery is a lithium or otherwuse has a higher resting voltage. But this tool might also be overkill for supplying a 12v battery system. Like with most things, the answer is "it depends".
I have a battery to battery charger to save my alternator when I upgraded to lithium. It doesn't over charge my lithium battery as with a Victron you can set the charge levels. It only charges when the engine switch is on, saving my lead acid batteries. No better budget solution, other than changing my alternator.
My issue includes that they try to charge the li to a voltage. That just doesn't work. It causes shortened battery life. To understand why these don't charge correctly you would first have to understand how to charge LiFePO4 correctly. I suggest this video th-cam.com/video/3USAqjntxIs/w-d-xo.html
This video doesn't Show anything about Why the device is bad. I share your Opinion. But, hook it up to some of that test equipment you have, and show me exactly Why the 60 amp version of that same brand device almost destroyed the electrical system in my new truck.
Yes sorry. I usually dive too deep and get complaints my videos are too long I tried the simple approach and I hear the opposite. I can't go deep without going on for half an hour But if you look at my how to charge li correctly video I think it will fill in the blanks.
You are fast and loose with the details. Problem issues you mention are avoided by proper selection and application of charging systems. Bottom line: Some people have no business putting together a power system. They need a knowledgeable person to do it for them.
I was surprised this video is doing so well. I thought that this would mostly be seen by fans that had already watched my "how LiFePO4 kills alternators" and "charging LiFePO4 correctly" videos. My stuff tends to run long so I tried to make this one short. I guess that's why it got attention. To charge li correctly there is actually a lot to it
pure nonsens a Dc-DC charger have the job to take the the Power from a Lead acid "starter battery"to charge a LFP in the RV. and the trash that a LFP can not be charger right is only your conspiracy theorie. and again any LFP have a build in a BMS so overcharge is about this not possible and for people like you.... and to your question why not put 4 meters across a RV 100 Amps . so anyone have put 4-6 meters AWG 0 wires mount across his camper? pointless the consumer pbattery can be anywhere in a RV..... thats why all DC-DC or boost chargers are in the range from 20-40 Amps more is pure nightmare in wireing and can be a safty problem to pump insane currents across a RV... here you get a real world video why its the most important part for RVs or boats S03E33 - Making an Alternator Play Nice with Lithium (LiFePO4) Batteries (Part 01/02) yes to not burn the alternetor !!! and next part my DC-DC have ~90% effizenz so a basic value for any sort of typical DC-DC converters......
@@Clarks-Adventure glad you caught that in time. feel better. first time viewer. will be watching our referenced videos and will gladly subscribe to patreon b4 asking questions!
I dont know what you talk about I messure my victron orion by myself at home. Efficiency i get ~95% across different voltages. Next i check how it Charge a. LiFePo4 an it charge it perfect to any set voltage. More then peefect job a DC to DC comverter+charger can not be done. And i am from this Industrie and have to do in my job wirh batterys. Your talk that a perfect charge for an LiPoFe4 is not perfect coz you not like it......😂
You can't charge LiFePO4 safely to any voltage. There is more to it than that. For example if you charge at .5C you need to charge to 14.6v. If you charge at .01C you are overcharged and doing damage at 13.7v You have to account for the loads on while charging. Your dc-dc can be putting out a known current but your refrigerator might be burning half of that so the safe target voltage needs to be much lower
I am a first time viewer and I was curious on your view point. Unfortunately, I was serious underwelmed by your explaintion. Telling me that it will overcharge a LiFe battery is nice, but I want to see WHY. Can you not adjust the settings enough for LiFe? Bottomline, not giving a full explaintion and then telling me that you have a product that does a better job, this makes me NOT trust you. I not sure I will be watching anymore of your videos.
To understand why these don't charge correctly you would first have to understand how to charge LiFePO4 correctly. I suggest this video th-cam.com/video/3USAqjntxIs/w-d-xo.html
Its to save your alternator. They make them in different amp sizes to match you alt. Lithium battery's will draw as much charge as they can get. Maybe you should check the facts first before you give bad advice.
Maybe you should finish your research before you comment. I suggest you watch my alternator and li videos and my charging LiFePO4 video. My point is there are better solutions.
I didn't see any waffles or any food. I thought the content was representative of the title, he told a story, people's common (miss)use of these and how he prefers to get around those problems without repeating himself making the video longer because he's already covered how to thermally shutoff an alternator without complicated circuitry. What were you expecting? He's talking about a pretty simple device. What would you like to have seen?
Thanks Andrew. I guess I have to choose from complaints that I talk too long or don't say enough. I feel so guilty stealing these people's video watching and trolling time
This video is a sales pitch for your junk. Do you warranty yours like renogy does. I am sure considering I am a retired shipwright the big issue you have is not properly setting your dc2dc
I'm an electronic engineer, I have a dc-dc like this in my boat. Everything he says (except his emotions maybe) is 100% correct,... he has his views, but everything he's reporting is true. ... He is in between the lines saying that there are better solutions (or should have been) than using a dc-dc, and by doing so he's indirectly promoting his own product, which is o.k.,.... but there still are applications in our boats where you would need a dc-dc like this, and where his product is not gonna solve it. ........ But everything he says is correct. Clark can be trusted 100% :-) ....
Explain then his statement you are. Onstantly overcharging your lifepo4 battery. Properly set it will not even come close or have you never heard of a BMS and how it works wrt an HVC event
There is so much more to charging li correctly than voltage. The BMS is there to prevent immediate cell failure and that's it. They allow overcharge. Think of this, if you charge at .5C you need to charge to 14.6v to get 100 percent. If you charge at .01C you have gone over 100 percent by 13.8v. overcharging li above capacity shortens life. There are more issues in the full picture like history and time. My device takes care of this and is designed to be added to any system that can currently charge lead saving you the replacement costs of all your charge controllers. And yes I'm proud of it. It's still the only thing out there that addresses charging of li in an active use environment successfully. Battery companies are starting to try but so far failing (EPOCH, LiTime...)
Thanks. Basically I'm now getting hit by "you didn't cover enough" complaints. But at least the short attention span crowd is clicking on this video and a lot of people have subscribed.
@ You are the easiest to understand ENGINEER I remember reading… Especially explaining BOAT electrical systems & DC AirConditioning/refrigerator “stuff.”
Thanks Stephen. That means a lot especially today. I think I'm letting the insults get to me. Probably harder on my first day off painkillers. I just had that appendectomy surgery.
Hello Clarke,
First-time viewer here-I was referred to your videos because I install and advise other Hans Christian owners with LiFePO4 battery banks on boats. I’m taking the time to write this because it’s easier to address you directly and publicly than to continue answering concerned or curious individuals I’ve already worked with or who are looking to install similar systems.
After cruising through your videos, I found your approach to charging interesting. I see no inherent issue with it, but it seems more convoluted than it needs to be in practice. My opinion is entirely based on firsthand experience installing, servicing, and using LiFePO4 chemistry since 2018.
Let me go through the reasons to use a DC-DC charger from a cruiser’s perspective. These are points you didn’t quite mention but are essential for a fair argument about their place in a system.
1. Not All DC-DC Chargers Are the Same
• I have experience with the exact Renogy model you use, and I can attest it’s not a unit I recommend or would ever use. Its lack of control in charge profiles and the RF pollution it emits while running can disrupt your VHF radio. Specifically, the RF interference dramatically reduces the range of AIS targets at sea, which is critical for safety.
• After research and testing, I initially used the Sterling BBW1260. It’s highly efficient (~94%) and waterproof, making it perfect for the marine environment, especially on boats that aren’t completely dry. This was my go-to until recently, when I switched to the Victron Orion-Tr Smart 50A. It’s also IP-rated, equally efficient, integrates with the Victron network, and is fully adjustable via the app. You can even run multiple units in parallel and configure them independently if more output is needed.
2. Redundancy
• When designing electrical systems for offshore cruising, redundancy and system separation are critical.
• In my setup, the engine is wired directly to the starter battery using the OEM wiring, with a burnout fuse placed within a foot of the starter battery. Optionally, I include a kill switch to isolate the engine leads for maintenance.
• From the engine side of the burnout fuse, a lead runs to the DC-DC charger, which is also fused for its appropriate current rating. The DC-DC charger connects directly to the LiFePO4 house bank. These chargers are voltage-sensitive, so they activate only when the engine is running and disconnect when it’s off.
Why is this important?
If there’s any issue with the lithium bank-such as a cell failure (unlikely) or a BMS failure (more likely in lightning-prone areas)-the starter battery remains unaffected. The BMS and other electronics are sensitive to EMP hits, but with this setup, a mechanically governed diesel engine can still start and run independently.
While your system appears to achieve this as well, my design ensures the lead-acid starter battery remains isolated with less wiring. Additionally, the newer Victron Orion has a “backwards start” mode, allowing it to reverse current to help a weak or dead starter battery. Alternatively, a bypass switch can be added to combine the banks temporarily for starting before separating them again.
3. Alternator Considerations
• Using a DC-DC charger allows the use of an internally regulated or stock alternator, which simplifies installation and reduces costs when upgrading to lithium.
• Sizing the DC-DC charger is straightforward: aim for about 50% of the alternator’s rated output. For example, on a 60A alternator, set the charger to 30A; on a 120A alternator, it can run at full 50A output. This prevents overheating and extends alternator lifespan.
Small-frame alternators are particularly sensitive to heat, and pushing them too hard will dramatically shorten their lifespan-or burn them out entirely. Replacing an alternator in a foreign port is expensive and inconvenient, and overloading it compromises your propulsion system’s reliability.
While external regulation can increase output, I generally avoid it for smaller setups. Engines with single V-belts are typically limited to 60A. Dual V-belts can handle more, but they’ll generate excessive belt dust from the load. Even serpentine belts transfer significant side-load stress to the crankshaft and water pump bearings, which aren’t designed for such strain. Crankshaft and water pump bearing wear might not show immediate symptoms, but over time, this can lead to significant failures, which are costly and challenging to repair while cruising.
4. Proven Reliability
• This design has been 100% reliable in every system I’ve designed and installed. My primary concern is always ensuring the engine and its components remain operational and uncompromised to maximize their lifespan and reliability.
If you have any questions or want to discuss this further, please feel free to reach out. Thanks for your videos and for fostering these valuable discussions within the community.
- Jon Neely S/V Prism
Thanks for your well thought out comment. I'm not feeling my best today as I just got out of the hospital yesterday but I would like to explain a few things.
If you send me an email at sailingtemptress@gmail.com maybe we can set up a call.
In short it seems the dc-dc units you are talking about are using an active switching power supply. Good on them for that. But they are still charging the li wrong.
The heart of my argument is to protect the li directly with its own charge controller
Protect the alternator with protections to make it a true continuous duty device.
And then basically the best part is no part.
@@SailingVesselPrism if the lead acid is low or faulty your fixed current guess of appropriate charge current system, that could cause full fielding of the alternator. If Clark recommends a system that reacts to alternator temperature, and you aren't, and make no mention of even measuring it how can you confidently say your system will have a longer alternator life? And the water pump bearings are totally designed for the load, I did validation testing in automotive for over 10 years and can also confidently say if alternator load changes crankshaft wear you have an engine oiling/lube pressure problem.
@@AndrewHemstreetI always recommend monitoring your starter battery voltage. A failing starter battery often shows signs, such as hesitation during starting, as it operates within a closed system. Replacing your starter battery every 5-6 years is good practice, as that is typically their expected lifespan.
With nearly 20 years of experience in the marine industry, I can confidently say that small marinized tractor engines are not designed to handle sustained alternator loads above 120 amps. While they can manage such loads, there are inevitable negative effects. For example, the water pump will likely fail sooner when using a 120-amp or higher alternator compared to the original 30-amp setup.
It’s also worth noting that higher alternator loads increase the mechanical load on the crankshaft. This added strain can offset the load on the front main bearing and seal, leading to accelerated wear over time. While these components are designed to handle normal operating loads, sustained high loads-such as those from a high-output alternator-can push the system beyond its intended parameters. This is particularly true in marine environments, where engines often run at steady-state RPMs for long periods. The increased side-loading from a higher alternator output can eventually lead to premature wear of the front main bearing and seal.
Regarding alternator temperature sensors, I agree they can be beneficial, especially in high-output setups. However, in my experience, they are often unnecessary if you keep the alternator’s load within 50% of its rated output. When properly ventilated, the alternator’s temperature will typically not exceed that of the engine.
As for crankshaft wear, I acknowledge that if it were to become a significant issue, it could indicate a separate oiling or lubrication problem. However, the added load from a high-output alternator still plays a role in increasing the stress on the system as a whole, which is something to consider when making modifications.
@@AndrewHemstreet I always recommend monitoring your starter battery voltage. A failing starter battery often shows signs, such as hesitation during starting, as it operates within a closed system. Replacing your starter battery every 5-6 years is good practice, as that is typically their expected lifespan.
With nearly 20 years of experience in the marine industry, I can confidently say that small marinized tractor engines are not designed to handle sustained alternator loads above 120 amps. While they can manage such loads, there are inevitable negative effects. For example, the water pump will likely fail sooner when using a 120-amp or higher alternator compared to the original 30-amp setup.
It’s also worth noting that higher alternator loads increase the mechanical load on the crankshaft. This added strain can offset the load on the front main bearing and seal, leading to accelerated wear over time. While these components are designed to handle normal operating loads, sustained high loads-such as those from a high-output alternator-can push the system beyond its intended parameters. This is particularly true in marine environments, where engines often run at steady-state RPMs for long periods. The increased side-loading from a higher alternator output can eventually lead to premature wear of the front main bearing and seal.
Regarding alternator temperature sensors, I agree they can be beneficial, especially in high-output setups. However, in my experience, they are often unnecessary if you keep the alternator’s load within 50% of its rated output. When properly ventilated, the alternator’s temperature will typically not exceed that of the engine.
As for crankshaft wear, I acknowledge that if it were to become a significant issue, it could indicate a separate oiling or lubrication problem. However, the added load from a high-output alternator still plays a role in increasing the stress on the system as a whole, which is something to consider when making modifications.
@@Clarks-Adventure I’m sorry to hear you’ve not been feeling well. I hope you’re recovering quickly.
I appreciate your perspective on the DC-DC units and the use of an active switching power supply. From my experience, I’ve found that these chargers have had no ill effect on battery life. In fact, I recently conducted a capacity test on batteries I installed in 2018, and they’re still providing over their rated capacity. To me, this is strong evidence that the charge profiles used by these systems do not damage the lithium chemistry.
Additionally, a properly functioning BMS will actively balance the battery at the top of the charge curve, and all the chargers I use and recommend do an excellent job of preventing overcharging, regardless of the current. I truly believe these systems provide a safe and reliable way to maintain battery health, and my philosophy is based on real-world usage. The system I’m talking about has gone through about 500 full cycles, and it’s only a 200Ah bank, which was a significant investment back when LiFePO4 was still quite expensive.
I dunno Clark. You’ve gotta state your implicit bias. You’re selling a direct alternative to the DC to DC charger. The Victron Orion Xs has very high efficiency and I’ve never heard anything but positives re: Victron products in charging Lifepo4. Alternator to lead to DC/DC to LifePo4 is widely accepted as the best approach of mixing lead and lithium without smoking your old alternator.
You are right I should have gone into detail on how I don't like the Victron charging curve for li here in this video. It's covered in the how to charge li video released a month or so back and in some of the BankManager's videos. But of course everyone doesn't watch all my videos.
If you are interested it's covered in the BankManager section of MarineDCAC.com
Well maybe, if your alternator is small.
But what do you do if you have a 150 Amp alternator or bigger ?
How many DC to DC chargers will you need?
And at what cost?
Many catermarans with large pv arrays don't even bother with connecting the alternator to a lithium bank.
But what do you dovif you have a monohull, with limited solar capacity.
You need to be able to get meaningful power from your engine. And DC to DC chargers don't cut it if you've got a 150 Amp coming in.
@@markreynolds8630150 amp alternator will rarely charge over 100 amps. It gets hot and starts limiting . 2 Orion Xc dc to dc would work to pull nearly full output
@@markreynolds8630 yep.
Victron Orion DC-DC seems to work fine with lifepo4. I have one charging a 100ah auxiliary battery on my truck for a fridge, etc. Efficiency is 89% according to the spec.
Victrons DCDC are programable, the max charge voltages etc are set by the user according to batterysytem needs. If set correctly it will not overcharge. They are inefficient but so is any engine alternator creating 50/50 heat/electricity. Why we dont want to push the alternator too much.
@@Sailingengineer74inefficient? The Orion XS doesn’t have a cooling fin or fan.
You can't charge LiFePO4 safely to any voltage. There is more to it than that.
For example if you charge at .5C you need to charge to 14.6v. If you charge at .01C you are overcharged and doing damage at 13.7v
You have to account for the loads on while charging. Your dc-dc can be putting out a known current but your refrigerator might be burning half of that so the safe target voltage needs to be much lower
I use a Victron Orion to charge my windless battery (Lead-Acid) using my LiFePo4 main battery bank. This way I have smaller gauge wire for the long distance from aft to bow. Because the windless is used typically once or twice a day at most, the Orion does a good job of slow charging over the 23hrs plus that the windless is not used.
Good use of this device. It charges lead fine and it's the easiest current control device to use
Clark, I found that a DC to DC charger is an easy way to isolate an auxiliary battery from the starting battery in my pickup truck. Quick, easy and only 4 wires not counting the remote if needed. Not that a voltage sensitive rely wouldn't work but the compact package and simplicity of the setup works for me. Like many things in electricity there are many ways around the block. Keep the good stuff coming.
Yep lots of ways to solve the problem.
But $200 to turn 24 amps into 20 vs
$20 to move unlimited current (OK, gets hot over 140a). Not a hard decision for a cheap guy like me.
I would be interested in how the DC/DC charger is overcharging LFP. I own a Victron DC/DC Charger? I can custom all the charging parameters. (Main reason why I went for Victron instead of Renogy) Have never had a problem with overcharging.
You don't know you have a problem with over charging ... Yet...
My issue includes that they try to charge the li to a voltage. That just doesn't work. It causes shortened battery life.
To understand why these don't charge correctly you would first have to understand how to charge LiFePO4 correctly. I suggest this video th-cam.com/video/3USAqjntxIs/w-d-xo.html
@ like every other battery charger on the market
Not mine!
MarineDCAC.com
Renogy sells DCDC chargers with user programmable charging settings using mppt technology, also allowing a separate solar input, solar priority.
But I bet it still charges li to a voltage. Not good
Hi Clarke, got to comment on this. From the setup on my sailboat i can only say i am very pleased with my Mastervolt DC-DC Charger. It serves to protect the engine-alternator-lead starter battery setup by coupling the starter battery with the LFP-bank. So you can charge at max 50A at 12V (adjustable, i use 13,8V) you're LFP with no worries for your engine-circuit. While you are running your engine, you can operate the charger if necessary (eg turn off if you're LFP Bank is allmost full, or turn the amps down when motoring to your mooring takes longer then anticipated). The programmable output can be parametrised so the charge stops automatically, the BMS at the LFP kicks in only as emergency-stop, not as normal procedure to stop charging. It works great, needs very little attention (only when you plan to motor for a longer trip) en is quite fool-proof! On longer motor sessions 8-12 hours I tipically put it to 15A (from a 115A alternator) (on my small 280Ah-Lfp). Second benefit is that the Charger can function as an electric source for the boats Service Circuit with the engine as generator backing up the LFP-bank if necessary, without the need to manually cross the engine circuit to the service circuit. This is a marine grade piece of kit which is not cheap but very functional, and desirable!
Thanks for your note Martin,
I agree they fit a use case that must be addressed
But I offer another solution that addresses these issues in other ways, better ways.
You may like to see my li kills alternators and my charging li videos. The three of these together show what I claim is a better solution to these issues.
Basically it has been found that charging li batteries to a voltage is not good for them in an active installation. And basically the charge controller guys marketing department put a LiFePO4 label on a lead charging mode and called it a day because, frankly, the proper solution is really difficult.
I attest that I found the proper solution. MarineDCAC.com
@Clarks-Adventure Hi Clarke, as others point out there are different use cases that might have different preferred solutions. Using the DC-DC solution when replacing the lead Service Batteries with LFP (as part of total rewiring and overhaul of the electrics aboard) has worked flawlessly for the past 4 years. Don't see how being able to couple the small starter battery to the household system would have any significance, apart from running kWatt household appliances on board (which i don't). My 'usecase' being in a climate prohibiting the PV-panels to provide any support to crank the lead battery to the 'coupling Voltage' of 13,2V, at least from mid Octobre till March.... Don't agree that Marine grade DC-DC chargers are unfit to charge LFP, as long as they can be programmed to stop charging at the correct(!) parameters (% residual/tail current over x minutes)
Well I offered my videos. Do as you wish it's your investment.
I have an upcoming video planned where I'll be listing the academic papers and studies that explain how charging to voltage shortens life.
I recently upgraded from lead to Lfp my battery charger which I only use when using a Generator it puts out 29.2 battery specs says 29.2 and it seems to be doing an excellent job do you think Itcan over charge the battery? I also wanna add I put it on AGM settings so that it do go into desulphation mode.
I go into that and my charging lithium video and a lot of other places.
In short, I've found you simply can't charge LiFePO4 cells correctly to a voltage. There is so much more to it than that if you want the longest life from those cells.
Thanks a lot for all your explanations. If I can ask you a question: I got one of those Renergy 40 Amps for my van (didn't install it yet) I was thinking about putting the on/off switch like you did, but I was wondering if switching off and on when engine is running can damage the 190 Amps alternator? I have a Lithium- Gel 300-250 Amps battery bank. (I learn from you how to combine, no bbm in my design, I charge as Gel type from solar). Blessings!
By the way, I pray for your safe and quick recovery and healing Clark. So, be healed in the Name of YESHUA! Amen!
I see no problem with using it that way from an alternator point of view. The alternator will just see a load going on and off.
It would look similar to turning your headlamps (maybe a big light bar) on and off.
I can see the no effort. You also left any information out.
What is obvious is that you promote your bank manager in every video
I assumed this would mostly be watched by fans and the details are covered in other videos "li kills alternators" and "how to charge li".
So I made a short video for once.
I guess lots of people only click on short videos so this has become popular. Because it's short. So it's not liked because it's short...
What do you think about putting one of these between my dumb 12v alternator on the starter battery to bump up to 24v to charge my lead house bank but before the BBMS and lithium
Absolutely not. It's likely to kill the diodes in the alternator and could burn out the dc-dc.
Both systems expect a battery on the source side.
And you would severely limit the current generated.
Get a stock sized 24v alternator.
@Clarks-Adventure yes I already have a very large alternator for the BBMS house system. I just thought I could put one of these between my start battery bank and the lead in my house bank since the only thing the start bank does is start the motors and run the gauges for the boat so after I start the motor they pretty much do nothing but recharge the start batteries fairly quickly
Oh sorry I misread.
I thought you meant directly to the alternator.
Yep that's what these are for
I own one, but I am in the cold north. And yes I use it for my lead acid semi batteries. It seems to work good at our off grid camp.
For charging lead batteries and when you accept the loss these are fine.
I love mine. Doubles as a solar controller. With a 460AH, I have power for days, and it's charged up again after I get to my next camping spot. The solar just extends my time a little bit, I could do without it. And the stock 160 amp alternator has no trouble with it at all.
The Victron Orion XS 50 amp dc to dc is great! The REAL reason to use one is so you don’t trash your alternator because of BMS disconnect when the battery is full. That will burn the diodes. Don’t need it with the bbms because the lead will stay in, but without it this is the thing. This Victron unit produces very little heat and no fan.
Yes I should have talked about that. There is a lot I should have done better on this video. I filmed it while sick but I didn't realize it at the time. I just got out of the hospital today, had my appendix out so I expect to feel better soon
Funny story, I woke up in my own bed. It was 7:30. Dark out I was confused as to if we're 7am or 7pm (on Saturday!). So I released the video. Turns out it was Friday night. That's why the video is so early.
There were painkillers involved....
The diodes in your alternator don't burn when you turn your headlights off. What am I missing about the BMS disconnect?
The battery lead battery provides a constant load for your alternator. Li doesn't.
I have a video on this that goes into detail. It's popular, and should be easy to find.
Search on Clark's adventure li kills alternators
A pair of Victron Orion XS 50s paired with a 350 amp alternator totally changed my Truck camper life. I reliably get 85 amps at 12 volt with my Diesel f250 at idle and full 100 amps at just above idle.We stay at no hookup harvest host and state parks a lot and if we run the AC it hits our 1000 amp hr lipo4 bank hard. Before the Orion's we were forced to get a plug every few nights to recharge because the 540 watts of solar were overwhelmed. I wired the system for up to four Orion XS 50s but only could get two when they first came out due to availability. I think I will stick to just the two with our travel style it seems to be sufficient with three to four hours of travel fully recovering the batteries from running rooftop AC overnight. I originally had a Renogy like you were talking about and I can tell you it is not in the same league as the Victron Orion XS 50. By the way it was me that gave you the tip on the Ford charging limit to trailer connection. Enjoy your videos but you need to check out the Orion before condemning all DC-DC chargers they serve a purpose in mobile systems as a safe bridge between the vehicle and camping unit.
But they just don't charge the li correctly for a long life. That's my biggest issue.
To understand why these don't charge incorrectly you would first have to understand how to charge LiFePO4 correctly. I suggest this video th-cam.com/video/3USAqjntxIs/w-d-xo.html
So, if I'm running an electric boat, with no alternator, 48V bank for the motors, and 12V for the house, how would you keep both banks charged?
If I had a mixed lead/lithium setup, I might use your Bank Manager, but assume both banks are lithium only.
We would have to talk about your specific requirements but I'd suggest you just don't use the 12v battery at all. A simple switching power supply gives you a cheap reliable 12v source.
You still pay the heat loss but now you are only paying that for your actual loads and not having to maintain a 12v battery
Hi Clark about to start electric system for my boat would love your advice consult what’s best way to connect
If you want real handholding I have a Patreon tier called Dream Believers that has morphed into a system design consult thing. We go through whatever you want over the phone. 50 bucks a month, drop out or down to a cheap tier when you think you paid enough for the help you got. Honor system.
Oh and there is now an hourly "Clark Time" item on the BankManager sales page. MarineDCAC.com. But it costs more.
I have a Renogy DC-DC charger and a Victron DC-DC charger. They do exactly what they claim to do and from my experience they do it well. In my Honda Odyssey I definitely wanted to limit the draw off the alternator and changing the alternator was out of the question at the time. I’ve used the Renogy as a temporary power supply for some led lights and it worked great. I’m not really sure what the issue is and what he thinks the solution would be. I plan to go to 48 volts in another van build and will be using Victron dc-dc units full time for 12 volts. I’m about to redo a van build and will adding a Victron dc-dc as a power supply to sensitive equipment that I don’t want to see over 13.6 volts. I already have one running off my alternator to charge my lithium batteries and it works great.
My issue includes that they try to charge the li to a voltage. That just doesn't work. It causes shortened battery life.
To understand why these don't charge correctly you would first have to understand how to charge LiFePO4 correctly. I suggest this video th-cam.com/video/3USAqjntxIs/w-d-xo.html
We have a victron DC-DC and it’s fully programmable . Pretty happy with it, we run it off the engine to power the house when under way.
You can't charge LiFePO4 safely to any voltage. There is more to it than that.
For example if you charge at .5C you need to charge to 14.6v. If you charge at .01C you are overcharged and doing damage at 13.7v
You have to account for the loads on while charging. Your dc-dc can be putting out a known current but your refrigerator might be burning half of that so the safe target voltage needs to be much lower
I'm glad you are happy with it and that's fine But I'm saying your batteries will be happier being charged correctly. And after you don't have to replace them you might be happier
Whats wrong with using a high output alternator to charge the huge lifepo4 48v house bank and the dc to dc to charge the two dumb 12v lead starter batteries? Barely any use (and therefore loss), will keep the starter batteries topped off, and lets you have a 48v house bank.
I have a video on that. Basically all is well until the BMS shuts off the lib battery during charge and your alternator diodes instantly fail
@@Clarks-AdventureYou can use the ElectroMaax Surge Suppressor (SSP) to protect the alternator against all causes of voltage spikes. Great insurance in Lithium installations.
Your arguments are well made as are many of the comments. Constructive discourse is good for everyone.
Could you use a MPPT Solar charger for 48 volt to 12 volt
I don't see why not. It's basically the same circuit and a little more.
I have been using this Renology 40 amp DC to DC Charger for 4 years on my Sailboat to charge my 700 amp/hr battery bank on days when there is just no sun. I have a 80 amp alternator on my Yanmar 3ym30. It would diminish the output with the group 27 lead acid battery so I would have to switch off and on every 30 minutes to keep the out put up (recharging the start Battery)
I recently replaced the Start battery with a new 150 amp hr AGM. Now it will run for hours before the output drops and brings my systems voltage up to 13 volts..... I monitor this with my Victron shunt. I know that in the winter with my aging solar panels My batteries would be damaged with out the the ability to use this 40 amp DC To DC . One of the best additions to my house system i have installed. I am still trying to understand Clark's logic of running a Lead acid battery in my LiFePo4 House bank.I would never mix and match LifePo4 ....WTF??? If you have a internally regulated alternator (like my stock Mitsubishi) You need this to charge off your alternator. . LiFePo4 batteries will make the alternator run full tilt and suck the life out of it. (danger Will Robisin)The other way to go is to install a high output alternator Like a Balmar with a external regulator ..( $2k) I love my Renology DC to DC charger..Just remember to use one that is 1/2 the output of your Alternator's ...
My issue includes that they try to charge the li to a voltage. That just doesn't work. It causes shortened battery life.
To understand why these don't charge correctly you would first have to understand how to charge LiFePO4 correctly. I suggest this video th-cam.com/video/3USAqjntxIs/w-d-xo.html
My victron one works great. It saved me the massive cost of having to purchase an additional solar panel and an additional charge controller for my lithium battery.
You're right about the output though. They do limit the capacity that they are advertised.
It's a great solution if you are using LiFePO4, and TBH I can't see why anyone would not upgrade to that chemistry as soon as possible. As far as overcharging LiFePO4, it has a LiFePO4 mode, so it outputs the correct voltage and the BMS in the battery is going to prevent overcharging. I would not buy any LiFePO4 that doesn't have an integrated BMS. Integrated BMS does potentially cause an additional point of failure, but I assume most people will have 2 batteries and if I was doing Bluewater cruising, I would bring a backup BMS. I would get the 40A DC-DC though or just get something like a Victron Energy MultiPlus 12/3000/120-50. But I have to disagree, the unit you mention has it's place, with any chemistry, and certainly is not a problem for most of reasons you list. As far as heat, well any buck-boost device is going to generate heat, that is why they have fans, and sure they are not 100% efficient but they are above 90%, you really can't get much better than that in this application. I mean you can't hook a LiFoPO4 directly to the alternator anyway, so not sure why this device doesn't make sense to you.
I strongly suggest you watch my charging LiFePO4 video from this summer. I show why you simply can't charge LiFePO4 safely to a voltage. Just because the marketing department put a li setting on a charge controller doesn't make it correct for charging LiFePO4.
Or the story is available in text under the MarineDCAC.com page.
@@Clarks-Adventure I will do that, take care.
Makes me wonder what the minimium solar input of most solar charge coltrolers are. They would work as a DC-to-DC charger if they can take 10-14 volts.
I have being using 2 small solar controllers for years one from the van battery to the LiPo and other from the LiPo to the engine battery with on/off switches.
@@Jerusalemsaints Cheapo amazon ones?
Yes the mppt versions are also a switching power supply in their heart. But two things.
If the panels are putting out a close to optimal voltage a pwm controller is actually more efficient.
But, usually since solar input can be all over the place (clouds and such) and we might want to use strings of panels running at a higher voltage. This loss can be greatly offset by the savings.
So I argue it makes more sense in that application
@@Clarks-Adventure That's not really what I was talking about.
Than I don't know what you mean.
I didn't realize you were selling a $550 device; I think I get it now. I will stick to CC from a properly sized DC-DC charger and let the BMS do the work. All you need here is a 40amp CC DC-DC power supply that is voltage limited to 14.6v. Ohms law does the rest. People make this way too hard. For that matter you can charge these batteries with a bench CC power supply. You turn the knob to 14.6v and 40 amps and forget about it. Another important thing is that these batteries are extremely tolerant of less that optimal charging at the top as long as you don't exceed 14.6v input voltage. You are much more likely to have problems from calendar aging than from not managing top balancing with Apollo lunar mission precision. Let's face it, these batteries are relatively cheap and will only get cheaper. Buying two of thes 100Ah or 150 Ah $200ish batteries every 10 years instead of every 12 years is a non-issue. Don't sweat the small stuff. I am much more concerned about being able to make a great gin and tonic when I am chilling at anchor in Avalon.
I guess I realize you aren't learning about li life from the academic papers or forums of experts
Best of luck to you but you won't be getting 12 years of daily cycle life from these charging them that way. More like 3 to 6.
But we all make our own decisions in life.
I am sorry for the cost of the device (and there is a version that costs $330). But when you produce things we'll in small quantities that what they cost.
what about the new vicron orion xs 50A?
Great unit. Fully programmable. So efficient it doesn’t have a cooling fin or fan!
Seems like that one is using an active switching power supply. They are more efficient so they do better in the DC DC part but still not as good as a plain wire.
This still lacks in the battery charger part
You can't charge LiFePO4 safely to any voltage. There is more to it than that.
For example if you charge at .5C you need to charge to 14.6v. If you charge at .01C you are overcharged and doing damage at 13.7v
You have to account for the loads on while charging. Your dc-dc can be putting out a known current but your refrigerator might be burning half of that so the safe target voltage needs to be much lower
Thanks for another great video Clark. I'm curious, you have mentioned your truck camper before, how do you have it set up? "How does the expert do his own stuff"? Maybe an idea for another video. I would purchase a bank manager if I could see how it works in a setup like mine.
I did a camper trip summer before last
There are some videos about the rig then and from this summer a video of me putting a Gen3 in the camper
I am a CT and I have built my own Buck regulators and have yet to have negative results. Alternators can take a 60 amp and up load so not too likely a little battery is going to draw enough to damage it and I have them fused and I have active current limiting so no quick peaks of current.
Anything better than analog series LM317 or 7805. Buck regulators are very much overrated by sellers by about 5 times but account for that and they are still efficient.
My 1980 48" ketch with leadAcid system, has a separate battery bank for the thruster, with a 40A DC-DC "charger" in between, and it will not charge the leadAcids for the thruster as long as the voltage for the rest of the boat is below a certain treshold (that is, it will charge when the generator is running or when I'm on shore power). Everything you say is correct of course, but I kind of fail to see how that could have been done in a better way ?,........ some kind of voltage control relay with the addition of a shunt to make sure the current is only allowed one way maybe, but do'no if there's such products around ;-) .......
Yours is a great use of this device. It charges lead fine as I say in the video and as long as you are ok with the power loss, and I would be in this application, it's what I would use.
They are very helpful for battery mismatches.
Eg a 12V vehicle, with a 48V nominal LiFePO4 battery bank.
But they come in varying grades of quality, efficiency, and capabilities like proper charging
Ahoy Clark ... Quick battery question. I'm ready to pull the trigger on the Bank Manager system to add Lithium aboard my liveaboard. I followed a lot of your battery reviews as they were unfolding for a while, went away on other projects and am now back and ready. Main Question: Which battery company did you finally land on to recommend as the best value? I'm wanting 2 - 200 Ah Lithium. These will be added to my 3 existing 200Ah Prevailer Sorenson gel cell's. Thanks in advance .... PS: Here's wishing you a swift recovery! ⛵
Thanks Bill
I'm still in bed but off the painkillers so I'm answering comments
The leaderboards are up to date except for price as that changes so fast.
For cheapest I like the elefast but for best at a fair price using my discount code I prefer the VoltGo
@@Clarks-Adventure Ahoy again Clark.... Firstly, good to know you're off the pain meds ( maybe some Milk Thistle for a liver cleanse after those, just for good measure?) Thanks for the swift reply, I appreciate your suggestions. If I might add that I never again plan to have my keel in freezing weather, for me if the palm tree doesn't grow there, I don't go there is a motto I adopted a while back. Also I'm needing the configuration of 2 200ah cases to get through the opening one at a time, for my planned mounting spot. If I could impose again on your thoughts, with those two things in mind, would the Redodo be the next in line of best for me? Thanks again if you have time to respond ... Bill ... and oh yeah since I'm on decade 8 that VoltGo 400 is likely a bit above my wrestling weight in tight spaces these days methinks ha-ha.
@@billpeterson7446 voltGo has a 200ah offering. I believe my coupon still works
And you could get 4 of the elefast.
The new Redodo seem to have Bluetooth (good) but though I haven't seen one myself yet they seem to use the same BMS LiTime uses. I really don't like the one I reviewed (So bad).
@@Clarks-Adventure Thanks very much Captain Clark, and yes your coupon works on the VoltGo 200ah. Also, looking into it, Elefast now has a 200ah offering at Amazon price of $339 free shipping. (the link in your leaderboard led to an "unavailable" batt). Looks like I've got some wallet checking and deciding to do. :) Cheers and I hope you're feeling even better today. Bill
Any mppt charger is dc-dc what do you mean?
Yep and it needs to be. But there there is a value as solar voltage can be all over the place
If your panels are very constant in output a pwm charge controller is better.
But in this case we should be competing with a plain piece of wire. And the loss of a switching power supply fails to the wire and a better charge controller.
As a retired engineer, my DC-DC charger works great in my Van. Their is absolutely not wrong with these units when installed correctly. Check your alternator size first. Have 300@ lithiums. I see skinny wires attached to your Renogy charger, hope you didn't install it that way.
Those wires are fully up to the task I described in the video.
To understand why these don't charge incorrectly you would first have to understand how to charge LiFePO4 correctly. I suggest this video th-cam.com/video/3USAqjntxIs/w-d-xo.html
You are looking stronger and more healthy!
Thanks but I'm still in bed. This video was filmed before the surgery
I use a Renogy DC/DC charger on my trawler to charge my windlass battery. I only turn it on when my engine is running. Both systems are lead acid so I have had no problems in the year I've been using it.
Seems like a good use of the device
I bought the 40/60A version when I first installed LiFePO house batt. I removed the DCDC soon after. Too expensive to throw away so it sits in my parts shelf maybe one day I find use for it.
Same with the one I have on the boat.
I think I'll eventually use it along with a custom bankmanager board to charge my portable li battery
I’d like to charge an e-bike (48v)battery from my car. (Prius)
Maybe I should just use an inverter and my stock AC charger or a bench power supply…..
If there is a better method I’d appreciate being pointed in the correct direction.
Thanks!
Yes likely. E bike batteries aren't LiFePO4 typically so my device can't help you.
So do the best you can and charge it in a safe place. Fire scares me with those
Unfortunately batteries do not charge themselves and need external input. That input will vary based upon your circumstances. In fact, a person may have several "inputs" based upon their current situation. I have a very nice Victron Orion XS that is pretty darn efficient, will do 50 amps to the battery bank, has no fan and no big heat sink. My alternator has to power a lot of things, not just send energy to my battery bank so having the ability to control the load to the battery bank can be very helpful especially when the vehicle is sitting at idle. This unit is designed to work for a wide sub-section of people with a variety of alternators and use cases so, again, having the ability to control the load allows it to be useful for many use cases.
I agree they fit a use case that must be addressed
But I offer another solution that addresses these issues in other ways, better ways.
You may like to see my li kills alternators and my charging li videos. The three of these together show what I claim is a better solution to these issues.
They work fine. The better the system, the more it costs, but one can use them with confidence.
What about how they charge li? After hearing my point you can't really say that without explaining your position. Or it just comes off as false confidence.
I get what you're saying. I have an Ecoflow Delta Pro and Extra Battery for home backup only. My alternator charger is a good thing to supplement it power if needed. That is my use case.
Sure. It will put the power in but slowly and isn't good for finishing the charge on a daily basis.
But if this is for special case charging I think it's a great idea. Charging li imperfectly is damaging but only slightly so per instance. So every day it is proven to greatly shorten the life of li. But like 10 times a year. No worries. I'd set mine up that if BankManagers weren't free for me
Just make sure your daily charger is treating your li right
@Clarks-Adventure Thanks! Love your channel!
There isn't a lot you can do with those power stations. I just got something similar in for review that I'm planning to use for hurricanes in my Florida house.
I feel that their batteries will die sooner than a well cared for component system but these aren't really for daily use are they, so it just matters less
@Clarks-Adventure I just got mine for Emergency backup only. Had system 2.5 years and never lost power. But I have loaned them out multiple times for family that did lose power.
Precisely the best use case for these.
Like everything, these devices are not a silver bllet to fix everything. They are a tool that solves a problem. And problems can usually be solved in multiple ways.
People who use these tools need to have some responsibilty and accountability to their particular problem.
Long runs between an alternator and a battery system means the 12v alternator will deliver a high enough voltage to charge a battery. Especially if the battery is a lithium or otherwuse has a higher resting voltage.
But this tool might also be overkill for supplying a 12v battery system. Like with most things, the answer is "it depends".
Yep. What he says
I have a battery to battery charger to save my alternator when I upgraded to lithium.
It doesn't over charge my lithium battery as with a Victron you can set the charge levels. It only charges when the engine switch is on, saving my lead acid batteries.
No better budget solution, other than changing my alternator.
My issue includes that they try to charge the li to a voltage. That just doesn't work. It causes shortened battery life.
To understand why these don't charge correctly you would first have to understand how to charge LiFePO4 correctly. I suggest this video th-cam.com/video/3USAqjntxIs/w-d-xo.html
I hope you're feeling better soon.
Thank you
This video doesn't Show anything about Why the device is bad. I share your Opinion. But, hook it up to some of that test equipment you have, and show me exactly Why the 60 amp version of that same brand device almost destroyed the electrical system in my new truck.
Yes sorry. I usually dive too deep and get complaints my videos are too long
I tried the simple approach and I hear the opposite.
I can't go deep without going on for half an hour
But if you look at my how to charge li correctly video I think it will fill in the blanks.
You are fast and loose with the details. Problem issues you mention are avoided by proper selection and application of charging systems. Bottom line: Some people have no business putting together a power system. They need a knowledgeable person to do it for them.
I was surprised this video is doing so well. I thought that this would mostly be seen by fans that had already watched my "how LiFePO4 kills alternators" and "charging LiFePO4 correctly" videos.
My stuff tends to run long so I tried to make this one short. I guess that's why it got attention.
To charge li correctly there is actually a lot to it
pure nonsens
a Dc-DC charger have the job to take the the Power from a Lead acid "starter battery"to charge a LFP in the RV.
and the trash that a LFP can not be charger right is only your conspiracy theorie.
and again any LFP have a build in a BMS so overcharge is about this not possible and for people like you....
and to your question why not put 4 meters across a RV 100 Amps .
so anyone have put 4-6 meters AWG 0 wires mount across his camper?
pointless the consumer pbattery can be anywhere in a RV.....
thats why all DC-DC or boost chargers are in the range from 20-40 Amps more is pure nightmare in wireing and can be a safty problem to pump insane currents across a RV...
here you get a real world video why its the most important part for RVs or boats
S03E33 - Making an Alternator Play Nice with Lithium (LiFePO4) Batteries (Part 01/02)
yes to not burn the alternetor !!!
and next part my DC-DC have ~90% effizenz so a basic value for any sort of typical DC-DC converters......
Well one of us is very wrong.
You look back in normal health. 🌞🌴⛵
This was filmed just as I was getting sick.
I just got home today
@@Clarks-Adventure glad you caught that in time. feel better. first time viewer. will be watching our referenced videos and will gladly subscribe to patreon b4 asking questions!
I dont know what you talk about
I messure my victron orion by myself at home.
Efficiency i get ~95% across different voltages.
Next i check how it Charge a. LiFePo4 an it charge it perfect to any set voltage.
More then peefect job a DC to DC comverter+charger can not be done.
And i am from this Industrie and have to do in my job wirh batterys.
Your talk that a perfect charge for an LiPoFe4 is not perfect coz you not like it......😂
You can't charge LiFePO4 safely to any voltage. There is more to it than that.
For example if you charge at .5C you need to charge to 14.6v. If you charge at .01C you are overcharged and doing damage at 13.7v
You have to account for the loads on while charging. Your dc-dc can be putting out a known current but your refrigerator might be burning half of that so the safe target voltage needs to be much lower
I am a first time viewer and I was curious on your view point. Unfortunately, I was serious underwelmed by your explaintion. Telling me that it will overcharge a LiFe battery is nice, but I want to see WHY. Can you not adjust the settings enough for LiFe?
Bottomline, not giving a full explaintion and then telling me that you have a product that does a better job, this makes me NOT trust you. I not sure I will be watching anymore of your videos.
To understand why these don't charge correctly you would first have to understand how to charge LiFePO4 correctly. I suggest this video th-cam.com/video/3USAqjntxIs/w-d-xo.html
Its to save your alternator. They make them in different amp sizes to match you alt. Lithium battery's will draw as much charge as they can get.
Maybe you should check the facts first before you give bad advice.
Maybe you should finish your research before you comment.
I suggest you watch my alternator and li videos and my charging LiFePO4 video. My point is there are better solutions.
9 minutes of waffle - try to scan for the point of the vid and no luck
Yea he does that to make money by getting you to watch longer.
I didn't see any waffles or any food. I thought the content was representative of the title, he told a story, people's common (miss)use of these and how he prefers to get around those problems without repeating himself making the video longer because he's already covered how to thermally shutoff an alternator without complicated circuitry. What were you expecting? He's talking about a pretty simple device. What would you like to have seen?
Thanks Andrew.
I guess I have to choose from complaints that I talk too long or don't say enough.
I feel so guilty stealing these people's video watching and trolling time
algorythm comment
Thanks
This video is a sales pitch for your junk. Do you warranty yours like renogy does. I am sure considering I am a retired shipwright the big issue you have is not properly setting your dc2dc
I'm an electronic engineer, I have a dc-dc like this in my boat. Everything he says (except his emotions maybe) is 100% correct,... he has his views, but everything he's reporting is true. ... He is in between the lines saying that there are better solutions (or should have been) than using a dc-dc, and by doing so he's indirectly promoting his own product, which is o.k.,.... but there still are applications in our boats where you would need a dc-dc like this, and where his product is not gonna solve it. ........ But everything he says is correct. Clark can be trusted 100% :-) ....
Explain then his statement you are. Onstantly overcharging your lifepo4 battery.
Properly set it will not even come close or have you never heard of a BMS and how it works wrt an HVC event
There is so much more to charging li correctly than voltage. The BMS is there to prevent immediate cell failure and that's it. They allow overcharge.
Think of this, if you charge at .5C you need to charge to 14.6v to get 100 percent.
If you charge at .01C you have gone over 100 percent by 13.8v. overcharging li above capacity shortens life.
There are more issues in the full picture like history and time. My device takes care of this and is designed to be added to any system that can currently charge lead saving you the replacement costs of all your charge controllers.
And yes I'm proud of it. It's still the only thing out there that addresses charging of li in an active use environment successfully.
Battery companies are starting to try but so far failing (EPOCH, LiTime...)
They're an easy to implement buffer where required.
Yep they can provide current control
Your VIDEOS are NOT too long…! Just saying…
Thanks.
Basically I'm now getting hit by "you didn't cover enough" complaints.
But at least the short attention span crowd is clicking on this video and a lot of people have subscribed.
@ You are the easiest to understand ENGINEER I remember reading… Especially explaining BOAT electrical systems & DC AirConditioning/refrigerator “stuff.”
Thanks Stephen.
That means a lot especially today. I think I'm letting the insults get to me. Probably harder on my first day off painkillers. I just had that appendectomy surgery.
@ Good thinking…. Surgery & pain killers are guaranteed to interfere with OBJECTIVE thinking…. Just RECOVER first!
This video was too long. (just joking) Good info. I will join your Patreon when I buy my boat.☺
I'm getting complaints on this one I didn't go into enough detail!!!