Interesting - my take away was to try 100:1 :). The test I think would be really interesting is to put them against each other, given they have identical set ups, to see if there is a practical pushing power. In our matches we get a number where the pushing match is the decider, so knowing the relative strength would be interesting. Also, the speed to push a 100g/150g static weight over that same distance would be good to know too.
Great video! Thank you for all the wisdom you share! Could the 30:1 be spinning the tires at the start? Is the torque test showing traction? Could you try 20:1 or even 15:1?
Theres a good chance the 30:1s spin the tires at the start. Yes, kind of, its showing at what point the traction breaks at least with the current set up. I need to refine the test some I'd be interested in trying 20 and 15 to 1 but they arnt as common so I dont have any to hand. I'd need to find some online to order in
Keep in mind that because of the form factor, these gearboxes have a different amount of gears.. meaning that they can also loose some torque when they have a higher gear count. However, if the torque is high enough to loose grip, then more torque will not have any benefits I think. I would pick the lowest gear ratio that is enough to loose grip and drive it slower, this should save you some battery power.
It is very interesting seeing how each of the different ratios perform in different situations. Just curious, the gearboxes themselves are screwed on, making them detachable. Knowing that there are other N20s with even greater ratios like "1000:1", does that mean they can be interchangeable with each other, and open up the possibility of a super-high torque motor that can run say... an antweight 360° lifter, or maybe a crusher? If so, how do you think it'll compare to a servo of similar weight?
Sorry to butt in, guys... 🙂 I was just thinking that the high torque achieved by mega-gearing wouldn't really be usable with such small and nippy bots. The force created would be high, but the speed of actuation would be so slow that whatever you were trying to lift or crush would have zoomed out of the way long before the geared-down weapon could engage it. A fast-acting servo is probably a better bet in this weight class.
Yes the gearboxes are screwed on, but unfortunately no they are not interchangeable at least not all of them. I've tried in the past, but the pinion gear on the output of the motor is a different size for the different gearboxes If you got lucky and found a high ratio box that used the same pinion gear as one of the dfrobots ones, then it would be fairly powerful. If you found one that matched to the exact speed of a 9g servo, it would probably be a little heavier then the servo, as the servo uses a smaller motor size and plastic casing for the gear box rather then brass. But then again maybe not, the servo does also need the position sensor... hmmmm... might be one to look into later
Yes! There is a club in Melbourne, they have held a bunch of events in the past, but have been struggling to have events due to covid, but they are doing what they can, including virtual build nights You can find them on FB: facebook.com/groups/melbournecombatrobotics
Love the channel but I have a question. I am new to robotics and RC and have no idea what I'm doing. I purchased some of the 50:1 n20 motors from DFRobotics recently, can these be plugged directly into a receiver or do they need to work with an arduino board? If they can be plugged right in how would you power them without an external BEC? Sorry if this is confusing. I am very confused by all this myself but super excited to build some bots!
It depends on the receiver you are using, some can run on the full 2s lipo voltage, in which case you just plug the dfrobot motors in If your receiver runs on 5v you will need an external bec and to run power from the switch straight into the motors, this is a lot more work and i highly encourage you to get a receiver that can run on 2s voltage like this one: th-cam.com/video/npt4z8P3CeY/w-d-xo.html
That honestly depends on the voltage If the motor is "rated" for 6v and its 1000 RPM then its 30:1, or if its 300RPM then its ~50:1 If the motor is rated for 12v and is 300 RPM then its too slow, it will be something like ~100:1
awesome video and really great, just for question, are these motor 6v or 12v rated are you running on 2s or 3s? the video came right on time since i ordered a couple of 12V 1000rpm (so should be 30:1) but i will run them at 2s also little suggestion, even if the teoretical pushing power could be derived from the datasheet, i think the improved test will give us really nice data to understand better the real life scenarios, so are you able to mold some slick tyres? my idea is that they will have a more stable reading but also giving an idea of how much tyre thread impact grip and so pushing power
6v or 12v ratings on these motors are meaningless. As far as I can tell the motors are built exactly the same, and the "rated voltage" is just the voltage that they tested the speed at. I've bought some n20s labelled as 3v motors, ran them on 2s and noticed no difference in them at all I run all n20s I own on 2s because all of my ants run on 2s If I get the improved test set up working reliably, I will be doing a bunch of testing including if tyre tread impacts grip (personally I use treads rather then slicks because my first experiment with them I used both, and found the treads had a little more grip, I think because the tread helps clear some of the dust/dead robot junk out)
50:1 but watch the video because in all things like this there are compromises at each gear ratio and what someone else thinks is worth trading up for to lose something else, your needs might be different.
"Heeello everybody, I am Ben from Team Panic and today I am doing God's work"
Interesting - my take away was to try 100:1 :). The test I think would be really interesting is to put them against each other, given they have identical set ups, to see if there is a practical pushing power. In our matches we get a number where the pushing match is the decider, so knowing the relative strength would be interesting. Also, the speed to push a 100g/150g static weight over that same distance would be good to know too.
I like all of those ideas, definitely want to build a new test rig, make some new tires and revisit this one
Great video! Thank you for all the wisdom you share! Could the 30:1 be spinning the tires at the start? Is the torque test showing traction? Could you try 20:1 or even 15:1?
Theres a good chance the 30:1s spin the tires at the start.
Yes, kind of, its showing at what point the traction breaks at least with the current set up.
I need to refine the test some
I'd be interested in trying 20 and 15 to 1 but they arnt as common so I dont have any to hand. I'd need to find some online to order in
Keep in mind that because of the form factor, these gearboxes have a different amount of gears.. meaning that they can also loose some torque when they have a higher gear count. However, if the torque is high enough to loose grip, then more torque will not have any benefits I think. I would pick the lowest gear ratio that is enough to loose grip and drive it slower, this should save you some battery power.
The torque is definitely high enough to loose grip, all of these do
(mostly because there is not enough weight in the robot)
I haven't got any notifications from this guy for ages I forgot this guy even existed!
I took a small break and TH-cam is trash at notifying people of videos
It is very interesting seeing how each of the different ratios perform in different situations.
Just curious, the gearboxes themselves are screwed on, making them detachable. Knowing that there are other N20s with even greater ratios like "1000:1", does that mean they can be interchangeable with each other, and open up the possibility of a super-high torque motor that can run say... an antweight 360° lifter, or maybe a crusher?
If so, how do you think it'll compare to a servo of similar weight?
Sorry to butt in, guys... 🙂 I was just thinking that the high torque achieved by mega-gearing wouldn't really be usable with such small and nippy bots.
The force created would be high, but the speed of actuation would be so slow that whatever you were trying to lift or crush would have zoomed out of the way long before the geared-down weapon could engage it.
A fast-acting servo is probably a better bet in this weight class.
Yes the gearboxes are screwed on, but unfortunately no they are not interchangeable at least not all of them.
I've tried in the past, but the pinion gear on the output of the motor is a different size for the different gearboxes
If you got lucky and found a high ratio box that used the same pinion gear as one of the dfrobots ones, then it would be fairly powerful.
If you found one that matched to the exact speed of a 9g servo, it would probably be a little heavier then the servo, as the servo uses a smaller motor size and plastic casing for the gear box rather then brass. But then again maybe not, the servo does also need the position sensor... hmmmm... might be one to look into later
Hay mate I'm from Melbourne and wondering if there is any robot fighting clubs here in Melbourne that u know of
Yes!
There is a club in Melbourne, they have held a bunch of events in the past, but have been struggling to have events due to covid, but they are doing what they can, including virtual build nights
You can find them on FB: facebook.com/groups/melbournecombatrobotics
What a great video Ben!
What voltage did you do the speed test on?
fully charged 2s lipos (charged between each test) so 8.4v
Love the channel but I have a question. I am new to robotics and RC and have no idea what I'm doing. I purchased some of the 50:1 n20 motors from DFRobotics recently, can these be plugged directly into a receiver or do they need to work with an arduino board? If they can be plugged right in how would you power them without an external BEC? Sorry if this is confusing. I am very confused by all this myself but super excited to build some bots!
It depends on the receiver you are using, some can run on the full 2s lipo voltage, in which case you just plug the dfrobot motors in
If your receiver runs on 5v you will need an external bec and to run power from the switch straight into the motors, this is a lot more work and i highly encourage you to get a receiver that can run on 2s voltage like this one: th-cam.com/video/npt4z8P3CeY/w-d-xo.html
what RPM is the 30:1 and the 50:1
i just purchased some 300 rpm N20 gear motors and was hoping you could shed some light on them
thanks
That honestly depends on the voltage
If the motor is "rated" for 6v and its 1000 RPM then its 30:1, or if its 300RPM then its ~50:1
If the motor is rated for 12v and is 300 RPM then its too slow, it will be something like ~100:1
awesome video and really great, just for question, are these motor 6v or 12v rated are you running on 2s or 3s? the video came right on time since i ordered a couple of 12V 1000rpm (so should be 30:1) but i will run them at 2s
also little suggestion, even if the teoretical pushing power could be derived from the datasheet, i think the improved test will give us really nice data to understand better the real life scenarios, so are you able to mold some slick tyres? my idea is that they will have a more stable reading but also giving an idea of how much tyre thread impact grip and so pushing power
6v or 12v ratings on these motors are meaningless.
As far as I can tell the motors are built exactly the same, and the "rated voltage" is just the voltage that they tested the speed at.
I've bought some n20s labelled as 3v motors, ran them on 2s and noticed no difference in them at all
I run all n20s I own on 2s because all of my ants run on 2s
If I get the improved test set up working reliably, I will be doing a bunch of testing including if tyre tread impacts grip
(personally I use treads rather then slicks because my first experiment with them I used both, and found the treads had a little more grip, I think because the tread helps clear some of the dust/dead robot junk out)
Go full yolo: Try 10:1 like I do with Mundane Rutabaga
Haha I've done that once,
My problem was that if the robot is hit while spinning 10:1 gearboxes tend to break, which is not fun
can somebody just comment the short answer? it would make sense
50:1 but watch the video because in all things like this there are compromises at each gear ratio and what someone else thinks is worth trading up for to lose something else, your needs might be different.
Such a pity that nobody makes a titchy-witchy teeny-weeny Formula One-style V10 petrol engine...
I'm using 90:1 motors!
And they're awful.
Ooooff yeah those are super slow