I love the achievement system in Honkai Star Rail. It kinda feels like a conversation with the developers: You try something out of curiosity, then the game replies with an achievement as acknowledgement that, indeed, the devs thought about that. It also serves as a picture album to remind you of that funny sidequest or that tragic backstory.
Achievements can lead down a path of darkness. I remember playing Overwatch obsessively to get the achievements, because when you get an achievement you unlock a spray to show off during matches, so you can flex in spawn while waiting for the match to start. Some aren't too bad, can be obtained with some effort, others are obsurd, like hitting an entire enemy team with one ultimate with a small radius, which consumed hundreds of hours, and while yes I do have the overwatch platinum (Funnily enough I have the platinum achievement in Overwatch 2 despite having played 0 seconds of it) the toll was not worth it, it affected my psychology in an unhealthy way, obsessing over some useless stickers, I am glad I destroyed the disc and haven't played that accursed game in over 5 years now. Though given the actions Blizzard took I would've dipped regardless.
I remember the old days of trying to get kills while wall running as Lucio to get his achievement. It was a good way to encourage players to utilize Lucio's wall running, especially considering how vital it is for his survival and how unintuitive it is to use for a new player to grasp.
Using achievements as data trackers is far more preferable to me than them secretly tracking all your actions. One feels completely reasonable, while the other feels like an invasion of privacy.
You did a decent job on the history of them, but it really can't be emphasized enough that "Achievements" as we understand them today were a complete invention by Microsoft for the X360 and were kind of unfathomable to developers prior to its launch. I know, because I was a QA tester at a major publisher (Activision) at that point, and for both of the games I worked on that were launch title Xbox 360 games, the concept of Achievements was so new that devs didn't know what to do with them at all. On one of the games, Achievements were seemingly an ignorable suggestion for devs, who didn't include any in the game at all until we told them that Microsoft wouldn't certify the game for the console without them. They came back at us and our team with basically "OK, you do it, then" and had us QA Testers create the list for what the game's achievements would be, which, since we were just a QA team who didn't care that much, meant that we included stuff easy enough for us to test, which was basically the "1 Achievement per level" unlocks, some multiplayer mode unlocks that wouldn't take TOO much time to get and some other really basic things. Because there was no standard for the concept, developers were very free to do what they wanted with Achievements - look at Dead Rising 1's achievements system; they went in a TOTALLY different direction than most games ended up going with the idea, for example. But because the two games I worked on were SO early in the 360's life cycle and there were no standards given to devs at first by Microsoft other than A) Achievements had to be in the game, and B) they had to total up to 1000 gamerscore (with a C condition that they had to pass some basic civility tests - I was on another project where some achievements that were kind of cruel jokes were rejected); I often wonder if that list of very basic progression achievements we in QA made for that game started a lot of the trends we see in achievement systems down the line as later devs copied the general concept because they knew it passed Microsoft's certification. Because the rather creative stuff seen in Dead Rising COULD have been the standard type of acheivements, but they obviously were better thought out and took more effort (and were even tied directly to game progression - if you have an unlocked achievement in DR, even a new save file completely cleared of prior user data will have the in-game rewards associated with the achievement avaialble; something basically no other game ever did again) but instead the lazy QA progression achievements absolutely became the standard as time went on. Just like how the Nintendo Wii didn't create, but solidified the concept of a user avatar tied to a console UI that the Xbox 360 copied for Xbox LIVE, Microsoft didn't create but solidified the concept of the intangible braggable award for in-game progress known as an "Achievement" (that Sony and then Valve and then everyone else copied). There had often been in-game rewards for player accomplishment in games (from unlockable skins and costumes and cheats, etc), but none of that had been standardized like how Microsoft implemented them until they did. And this DID work really well BTW. I would chalk up the Xbox 360's unique success over the PS3 largely due to Achievements (and Xbox LIVE Arcade, to be fair). The psychological reward mechanism of the concept was a very compelling draw to that console specifically until Sony copied it a couple years later.
30:36 Likewise I think some of the best achievements are the ones that guides/encourages players towards experiencing the game the way devs fully intended. Challenge achievements like in Half-Life 2 "Go through Ravenholm with only the gravity gun" and in The Enchanted Cave 2 "Beat the game in a single run" made me engage with the game's mechanics more and appreciate the games more as a whole .
Personally I only go for 100% achievement completion when the effort that goes into getting it and my general enjoyment of the game balance each out. The most memorable achievement for me is in the 2nd Deponia game, a Point & Click Adventure. During development the developers made small mistake during planning and at one point it was theoretically possible to have more items in your inventory than you have space, so they had to implement a scrolling bar for it when it happens. Doing that is the achivement.
Achivements made me go out there and play the game in different ways, and I now even pick up learning Mahjong for Yakuza. The games are fun, i want an excuse to play them more :D
the only game i've ever completed all the achievements for is hades. it takes a lot to motivate me to hunt for them, and hades just hits that sweet spot. one thing hades has that's not part of steam achievements but is awesome game design is the fated list of minor prophecies; they're optional goals that encourage you to try EVERYTHING. every boon, every keepsake, every weapon aspect, etc. all these things have a handy little symbol when you haven't selected it yet, so the process of completing them is pretty easy to track. if you've played any hades, you know that this is really valuable bc there's just SO much stuff to play around with, and yet it's organized so well in tidy lists like this. i had fun completing all the prophecies and all the achievements!
Hades is just an incredible game in general, full of all kinds of minor details hidden all over for a player to discover. I eagerly await the full release of the sequel
I will disagree on one thing. Achievements do not have no effect on players who don't care about them when it comes to multiplayer games. Time and time again poorly thought out achievements have had negative impact on such games as the achievement grind and game win state become opposed. Leading to some players actively fighting againt their own team in order to extend matches as they need more time to finish their achievements or simply ignoring the team from the start to go do some side activity that will not help their team but award themselves with achievement points, leaving the other players on their team a man (or more) down and giving them a harder time. A prime example from a long time ago. World of warcraft wrath of the lich king: Kill the dragon Sartharion without getting hit by lava walls that go across the arena. Best way to earn it: Kill your character in the lava moat before any walls appear and let other players kill the dragon. Fun for everyone involved! Obviously not intended but such poorly planned achievements still come up time and time again in multiplayer games making achievement hunters a detriment and nuisance to the team
And then you have games like Garden Warfare 2 where there's a secret that involves going to hidden locations on EVERY. SINGLE. MULTIPLAYER. MAP. to get collectibles, AND achievements that are no longer obtainable as they're tied to events that don't happen anymore because the game is EIGHT YEARS OLD and isn't supported by the devs. I'm forever stuck with "80%" completion despite having a nearly maxed out save file because of 20% of the achievements requiring these events, or worse...having friends in-game. There's literally an achievement for KO-ing a friend in their own backyard. Which I'll never get.
We are gathered here today to remember our dear comrades that haven't cleared Snezhnaya Does Not Believe in Tears: Series I for years. In honor of their suffering, all players shall press F to pay respect.
As a completionist, achievements are a huge thing for me. I hate when games have online achievements (like Pokemon X and Y's medals), limited time achievements (like League of Legends' seasonal medals), or achievements that require you to restart your save if you missed it (like Assassin's Creed 2's Fly Swatter achievement that comes at the end of the story). None of this is to mention the achievements that are just bad. Achievements that require dozens of hours of mindless grinding. Get the number 1 spot in a leaderboard where the top spots are exclusively held by cheaters. Achievements that require rare RNG results might be more painful than ordinary grindy achievements. But the achievement system that I enjoyed the most was probably Kirby Air Ride's checklists. Even though they do require some RNG, I've never had to wait long to get the right setups. Those achievements often could be made much easier by changing the game's settings to aim for a specific outcome. Maybe you play with 1 CPU instead of 3, maybe you turn off items, maybe you turn rubberbanding on high and wait for the CPUs to lap you a couple times, it truly felt like a puzzle that you had tons of control over.
I'm someone who does best with direction, so chasing trophies certainly has extended the enjoyment I've gotten out of many games. Also I always laugh at Atelier Rorona's "Item Complete". Astrid says "Congratulations. Here you go", and nothing happens in-game but that's when the trophy appears. Pretty good gag.
I think my favourite kind of case study achievements are ones tied to using certain game mechancis in ways that the player wouldn't think to do, but not as a fun novelty, but to try to push them to better understand the systems, only for the suggested p;lay pattern to be, not good. For example, guilty gear strive has an achievement for doing a fast roman cancel into a special move 5 times while in a match. This technique is very character specific and most of the cast have zero eason to ever be doing this aside from going for this achievement, as usually going for a fast rc into a normal attack is better in most cases where a fast RC is suited. So to get this achievement I had to hook up a second controller and put an inactive player 2 in on local play just to do the achievement because there is no reason for my character to ever do this (I had thought this when I had like 300 hours of playtime, 500 hours later I still think this)
The system similar to achievements for shaping player behavior that I really like is the post-battle bonus type, for games that are experienced in discrete matches. Smash Bros. Melee had this for its single-player and as the deciding factor in one multiplayer type (the first game had it to a lesser extent, too?), where players gained/lost points not only for KOs but also for their behavior - using a variety of attacks, using only a single attack, getting KOs via certain items, getting KOs in certain situations, taunting after you KO someone, not taking damage, taking a lot of damage, and plenty more. Some were indicative of a player's performance and habits, allowing them to show off or see where they might need to improve; others were amusing incidental occurrences or outright luck, such as KOing someone with 64% damage or ending a match under a flower's effect; a few were challenges that wouldn't likely be stumbled upon, such as Switzerland for completing a match without attacking or being attacked, or Mrs. Saturn for holding the same Mr. Saturn for 30+ seconds. The NDS-era Yugioh games did this as well, granting bonuses for stuff like only having one Type or Attribute of monsters in your deck, summoning certain monsters (generally ones with difficult summon conditions), achieving specific instant-win conditions or otherwise notable finishes, removing cards from the opponent's hand or deck, using many (or no) Spells/Traps, using certain summon methods, etc. There's incentive to get as many bonuses in a duel as you reasonably can, because each one earned grants you a bit more DP for buying new cards and stuff, so this influences deckbuilding and playstyles. The challenge aspect for many bonuses is somewhat more involved, as achieving many of them requires not just changing how you play, like with Melee's challenges, but building new decks around each goal (also meaning you need to have the cards to build that new deck). As an incidental contrast, I play Yugioh Master Duel from time to time. As a live service, it largely uses the grind-style "Missions" and some secret challenges alongside short-term goals, though there's a very simplified bonus system as well. Despite a decent amount of playtime, several of these lifetime missions are quite low on my account: activating cards from the GY, summoning cards from the GY, destroying monsters by battle, and activating Trap cards. This is because the deck I use almost exclusively is a janky Spell Counter Pendulum deck, where my monsters usually don't enter the GY to begin with, opponents' monsters are usually destroyed by effects before they can be run over, and I don't run Traps at all in favor of more Spells and Pends to gain more Spell Counters; while, at the time of writing, I have over 2000 Spell card activations, I've activated a Trap card _once_ (when testing a different deck for fun). While the bonus system of the DS games would've rewarded this behavior, Master Duel doesn't, and I just find it interesting.
One of the most memorable and interesting achievement/trophy implementation I've ever seen is in a game called "A Rose In the Twilight" by NIS for the PSVita. The game itself is a 2D Puzzle-Platformer. And most of it's trophies are fairly straightforward. Some story based one, a couple bonus objective ones, a couple speedruns, etc. There is one puzzle in the game that unlocks after you basically complete the game, like beating it and getting every collectible. The puzzle itself involves returning to a prior room with 3 stain glass windows (one of a bird, one of a starry sky, and one of a rose) which suddenly are now interactable. Clearly, interacting with them in a certain order is the code...but what is the hint? Well, if you look at the trophies, you will see trophy names such as: The Beautiful & Final Rose Bouquet of Roses Fly Away Little Bird Quick Star Canary's Knowledge Thorn Road Unheard Song Red Moon The answer is a 28 input long code in the order of going down the trophy list. Once you think you are done with the game, it throws you one last riddle using almost literally everything you've done up till then.
The achievement I remember the most is from Garden Warfare 2: "Time to Go Outside:" "Promote a single character 5 times." Getting this achievement invovles maxing out a single character's level, and I recall this being one of the first achievements I ever got in the game, despite being one of the harder ones. Until I needed resources earned from character promotion, there was exactly one out of the 120+ characters in the game I actually used, since it's one of my favorites in the franchise. Definitely felt nice getting a little reward for being so thoroughly dedicated to being a Plasma One-Trick
I remember working so hard for those call of duty 2 and 4 veteran achievements and spending hours in the sniper mission where you fight waves of Spetnaz or whatever. As an adult, I totally stopped caring about achievements.
I think the achievements that left the biggest impact on me were the ones for the boss fights in Tales of Vesperia. The original game was on the 360, so it was a relatively fresh experience for me as a player and the team at Bandai Namco developing the game. What they did was have an achievement for every required boss fight, but it wasn’t for simply beating them, there were gimmicks for each fight you had to pull off. And while on paper most boiled down to “hit the boss at a certain point” or “break the tool the boss is using”, in execution you had to pull off some nifty tricks get the job done. Actually getting the achievement before the party killed the boss was a far greater challenge than winning the fight. It made the experience one of the most unique I’ve ever had in a JRPG.
I have all possible achievements in Genshin and i don't regret it one bit, there are many things that you won't realize unless you go for those achievements
The only time I ever went out of my way to get achievements was when Halo 3 was at its peak. I simply loved the game so much that I wanted to experience everything it had to offer and show that off to my friends. Outside of that one time, I’ve pretty much ignored achievements in all games I play.
I enjoy achievement hunting, but I don't enjoy fighting against incredibly specific RNG in order to even stand a chance at attempting an achievement. Looking at you, HSR Swarm Disaster achievements. Absolute insanity.
I like achievements as a form of proof of conquest and superiority being one of a select group of only a few hundred maybe a thousand of the billions of people on earth who can and ahve done something even something niche is a feeling like no other. Everyone can say the completed a game but proving it can be kind of a pain while not perfect as cheating does still exist and several games don't have achievement systems or don't record their actual hardest feats in the system achievements still serve as a sort of mark of mastery over a game that is instantly recognizable. The introduction of achievements is also what pushed me to go from simply finishing games to completing them which has been a net positive as some games only truly shine when really dug into like that as well as revealing any cracks they have, it's made me a better critic and better able to sort what I like and why and better able identify design choices and philosophies. It's also one of the few things keeping me motivated at all really pretty much everything else in life is vague, ill defined, unclear on how to do even if defined, and often puts one at severe risk to attempt and or is one and done if you miss the chance that's it there is no retry nor chance to apply pracitcal knowledge gained from other attempts and requires years to a lifetime to get ergo isn't something one does and moves onto the next conquest and thus feel limiting and usually insanely expensive.
I did the Tarf achievement in Ys 2 Chronicles Complete where you have to grind this temporary character that you're supposed to escort to the maximum level. It was pain.
First! Can't wait to watch! Edit: okay so I finished the video (and also accidentally deleted the first draft of this edit which really hurts but the show must go on). I have only found one game (so far) where I went insane over collecting achievements and that was genshin lol. It's apparently the only game I cannot be normal about. I initially justified it by saying I was collecting primos for my next pulls especially because I am free to play (and indeed those primos are a nice motivator, even though you don't get an awful lot per achievement, but it does add up when you have 1200 achievements) but let's be honest, you were right, I do it to flex the big number on my ingame profile. It is not the first thing I have done as a flex in a game and I highly doubt it will be the last, I am just insufferable like that. I will admit recently I have slowed down on intentionally getting the achievements you don't just get through quests because it started to feel like a chore (ESPECIALLY the fishing achievement, I HATE fishing, fishing as a mechanic in a non-fishing game should die in a fire I hate it) but there is nothing quite like hearing that chime and seeing the achievement pop up, especially when you are not really hunting for it haha. Oh and before I forget I really do appreciate tht extra captions you add in there (I always love it when there are extra captions lol). To anyone who watches without captions: turn them on, some of the extra ones are really funny imo. Thank you for the video and I hope you'll enjoy the rest of your day! Edit edit: do I get an achievement too for first comment or am I pushing my luck?
Even some of the almost entirely bad achievements like tedius grinds that take double digits worth of hours and no actual skill still have a silver lining as a sort of almost initiation ritual where people who have gone through the same feel a sort of unspoken kinship with each other for having gone through a similar trial. Even pure skill ones which are almost always better for achieving a similar result without needing to put basically put intentionally bad design into a game, by their nature as a skill based accomplishment do exclude some people whereas grinds as tedious as they are are something anyone of any ability can do given enough time.
The most memorable achievement to me has very little to do with the challenge of actually getting it, and in fact it is one of the achievements you get from naturally progressing through the story of the game. The achievement is Thermal Activity in Subnautica. The reason why it is so memorable to me is that I didnt get the achievement even though I should have it.
I play FFXIV, and as an MMO the game have an overwhelmingly high amount of achievements, some of which are super simple and take less than 5 min to complete, however some of them are very challenging and could take several days or even weeks to complete, and then there's a few achievements that quite literally take years to complete. However, the good thing with MMO's and the vast amount of achievements is that you can just browse the achievement list and find something that you want to complete, and have that as your targeted goal, even some of the ludicrous achievements can be considered good if you have a good time collecting them, and in particular to MMO's the rewards are usually worth the effort, and you can usually find new ways to play the game.
6:10 this is exactly how i play games without achievments lol, with achievments stacked on top of that, i'm very glad most games i like don't have them lol
Said it before and I'll say it again: achievement lists give me anxiety, I hate to-do lists and I DO NOT need more in games. I disable achievement popups whenever possible and ignore them to the best of my ability. I play games as much as I feel like and stop when I don't want to play anymore. The one time a friend of mine convinced me to join in achievement hunting in a game, I ended up hating that game and never playing it again even tho it used to be one of my favorites... So yeah, never again.
I have my own experience with achievements. Im Autistic and Trohy hunt because of the dopamine and liked seeing the number go up and it make me achievements hunt like no other to try and 100% a game which hurt my enjoyment of a game at times and focus more on grinding. When I got a switch the urge to 100% wasnt as strong without the achievements there. Sure I do with stuff like pokemon but thats because they have an actual reward like shiny pokemon that i can use and train. There are games i play currently like skyrim and i dont 100% everything because of the characters I roleplay as. So I believe their is a discussion how dopamine like mechanics such as achievements or lootboxes can effect thise who are neurodivergent.
Be warned: some of the funnier footage (like the intro and the butt-smash) comes from a fan mod for Yakuza Kiwami 2 ("The Silly Mod" by Totomojang). It's not always like that, I swear 😅
I’ve never 100% completed a game. It’s fun whenever I get the pop up saying I got an achievement, but that’s only while I’m playing the game. I rarely go out of my way to complete an achievement, unless I’m like 90% there or something. It’s never really bothered me.
My Favorite Achievement by FAR are the ones that invite you to play the game in a different way. For example I LOVE speedrunning achievements in Metroidvanias! Breezing through the game again on a second playthrough in a fraction of the time is so Satisfying! In my case I am talking about Hollow Knight and Ori 1 and 2. 😃
if you want a game with good achievements pizza tower is one becaeuse of its chef tasks there mostly in the challeging type of achievement. I'm going to describe the first level john gutter's chef tasks on is awarded for breaking every john block wich are all on the main path and is hard to mess up. also it is most likely to signal to the player that there are achievements since it is one of the easy ones. now for the next two is defeat every enemy while maintaining your combo the exect number is 100 i bgelieve. as for the other it's beat the level in under a minute. Now both of these achievements are esentially training to get the best rank for a level wich is the p rank since you need to keep your combo going from the first room till the end whit getting everything important in a level (5 toppings,3 secret, and the single treasure) plus getting a high enough score. Now since this is the first level after the tutorial these achievements where propably chosen to get the player acostumed to the game and controls before giving them more specific level achievements.
In games I actually play, I either play until I reach the ending credits or I play for 100% achievements. The games with 100% achievements include 2 "Sniper" games, Ace Combat 7 and 2 "Jedi" games.
as a pirate gamer i couldn't care less about achievements, what i like are secrets broken itens for replayability. you can see the damage of bragging numbers in the mastery points of league of legends
I hear the reason Nintendo has yet to create a unified achievement system is because they want a system that is unique to their platforms. I.e. something that distinguishes their achievement system from the other major players.
I don’t really think that’s the case. Nintendo have some of the most creative game developers out there, and have a corporate culture which actively encourages innovation from employees due to their business model. If they really wanted an achievement system, they have more than enough creative ability, resources, money and time to invest into making one. The likely reason why they don’t is more likely because they just don’t want one
@@GoldenOwl_Game I paraphrase. I think I got that tidbit from a Did You Know Gaming video. I'm sure Nintendo looked into making a unified achievement system but decided not to implement one at the time. Of course, they may change their mind some day. Not that I have any complaints about the lack of such a system right now; such a system was never a draw for me.
hm, i was hoping for more talk about people like me that absolutely dont care about achievements at all. i usually forget they even exist and that people play games for them tbh. i get why theyre put into games but not why people like me dont care about them glad theyre not a waste of dev time tho
I faintly recall _some_ achievements even rewarded you for unlocking them. On Xbox it could be themes or avatar pieces, in TF2 it’s usually unlockable hats or weapons. But 99% of the time all it is is bragging rights
I don't want to check how many games I have 99% of the trophies or achievements in that are blocked by a single ANNOYING gnat of a challenge that is just too annoying to deal with...
I do wanna say though that at least for my understanding, achievements that are "launch the game" have a bad reputation. especially for achievement hunters on steam, since the first achievement makes it so you have to 100% the game in order to keep your Average Game Completion Rate statistic high on your profile. its better (in my opinion) if the game gives you a moment to check if you are able to interact with it properly, if you can see yourself enjoy it given the controls etc. before throwing an achievement into your face, having you commit to getting more if thats your achievement hunting philosophy. just for my personal view games that give out an achievement for launching the game have a bad achievement game design to them. it feels weak, it feels besides the point of what an achievement is and i usually immediatelly like such a game less than i otherwise would.
No, achievements are not the art of gamifying suffering. They are the art of gamifying conscientiousness. Only people lacking conscientiousness call them 'suffering' and if you are the one, you don't have to bother with achievements.
I 100%’d Danganronpa on Steam, and I hate that I did it because it involved numerous rounds of gacha and a stupid cleaning game I wish J never had to play again in order to collect (and this is not a joke) every character’s underwear
"tests of RNG and a player's willingness to put up with the game's bullshit" Hsr player, am not gonna touch "Nick of Time" and "the Predator" with 10-ft pole 💀
I hate achivments with passion. Even since they started showing in wow. Genshit is even worse. They put limited gatcha currency under those. And some of them are such a pain to do that 5 feels like a insult from devs. (wuwa is even worse as some feel broken) No i still havent done the one where you have to talk to a single npc 1000 times. Oh if you want a realy shitty achivment --- Golden Nut in satisfactory. People refuse to spend 300 hours in single game just to get those 1000 tickets to obtain it and rather just use a bug in game to duplicate tickets. Pokemon black and white 2 achivments were whatever. Press A to skip as fast as possible. If as a dev you have to add those in game: DO NOT MAKE THEM F ANOYING --- like wasting your time doing X thing X times DO NOT PUT ANY CURRENCY UNDER THEM --- something like titles are fine EITHER KEEP ALL OF THEM HIDDEN OR NONE Timed and area non-sense ... stand here at exact time and place for something to happen to get it DO NOT PUT TUTORIAL INTO IT
I thought Achievements are the things Asian parent leverage against their children in order to arbitrarily use in order to brag at their neighbours But ya know, barely reward their children for it, nor actually do the "acknowledging" thing
I don't quite understand why players say hate achievements so much. The players are typically not stupid but sometimes you need achievements to remind them "You can do this" or "have you tried this combination" . I understand people hating "collect all 80 feathers" achievements but the achievements should A) reward the player for meeting milestones in story or skill & B) incentivise them to play the game in the most fun way possible. C) inform them there's more to enjoy Ninja garden does this with Thier speedrun or A rank achievements. The game is at its best dodging and not getting hit. And lastly let them know they haven't explored or seen everything . Gamers complain about cluttered UI and being hand held but Achievements are a good way of communicating all of this with putting it in your face, it's outside of the game. People love speedrunning and achievement hunting yet the most pervasive talking point is people saying they don't like these things. It's very odd
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This video contains perfectly ordinary Yakuza series gameplay footage
There is absolutely nothing unusual here.
insert "SO UNUSUAL" from Kurohyou soundtrack
Shout-out Totomojang!
I love the achievement system in Honkai Star Rail. It kinda feels like a conversation with the developers: You try something out of curiosity, then the game replies with an achievement as acknowledgement that, indeed, the devs thought about that. It also serves as a picture album to remind you of that funny sidequest or that tragic backstory.
Achievements can lead down a path of darkness. I remember playing Overwatch obsessively to get the achievements, because when you get an achievement you unlock a spray to show off during matches, so you can flex in spawn while waiting for the match to start. Some aren't too bad, can be obtained with some effort, others are obsurd, like hitting an entire enemy team with one ultimate with a small radius, which consumed hundreds of hours, and while yes I do have the overwatch platinum (Funnily enough I have the platinum achievement in Overwatch 2 despite having played 0 seconds of it) the toll was not worth it, it affected my psychology in an unhealthy way, obsessing over some useless stickers, I am glad I destroyed the disc and haven't played that accursed game in over 5 years now. Though given the actions Blizzard took I would've dipped regardless.
I remember the old days of trying to get kills while wall running as Lucio to get his achievement.
It was a good way to encourage players to utilize Lucio's wall running, especially considering how vital it is for his survival and how unintuitive it is to use for a new player to grasp.
Achievements are even harder to get nowadays as well cause they buffed the health of all heroes lol
Achievements in multiplayer games should be illegal
Using achievements as data trackers is far more preferable to me than them secretly tracking all your actions. One feels completely reasonable, while the other feels like an invasion of privacy.
As I game dev I get much better data using telemetry "tracking" then achievements. I know what you did but not the context that lead you to do it
You did a decent job on the history of them, but it really can't be emphasized enough that "Achievements" as we understand them today were a complete invention by Microsoft for the X360 and were kind of unfathomable to developers prior to its launch.
I know, because I was a QA tester at a major publisher (Activision) at that point, and for both of the games I worked on that were launch title Xbox 360 games, the concept of Achievements was so new that devs didn't know what to do with them at all. On one of the games, Achievements were seemingly an ignorable suggestion for devs, who didn't include any in the game at all until we told them that Microsoft wouldn't certify the game for the console without them. They came back at us and our team with basically "OK, you do it, then" and had us QA Testers create the list for what the game's achievements would be, which, since we were just a QA team who didn't care that much, meant that we included stuff easy enough for us to test, which was basically the "1 Achievement per level" unlocks, some multiplayer mode unlocks that wouldn't take TOO much time to get and some other really basic things.
Because there was no standard for the concept, developers were very free to do what they wanted with Achievements - look at Dead Rising 1's achievements system; they went in a TOTALLY different direction than most games ended up going with the idea, for example. But because the two games I worked on were SO early in the 360's life cycle and there were no standards given to devs at first by Microsoft other than A) Achievements had to be in the game, and B) they had to total up to 1000 gamerscore (with a C condition that they had to pass some basic civility tests - I was on another project where some achievements that were kind of cruel jokes were rejected); I often wonder if that list of very basic progression achievements we in QA made for that game started a lot of the trends we see in achievement systems down the line as later devs copied the general concept because they knew it passed Microsoft's certification. Because the rather creative stuff seen in Dead Rising COULD have been the standard type of acheivements, but they obviously were better thought out and took more effort (and were even tied directly to game progression - if you have an unlocked achievement in DR, even a new save file completely cleared of prior user data will have the in-game rewards associated with the achievement avaialble; something basically no other game ever did again) but instead the lazy QA progression achievements absolutely became the standard as time went on.
Just like how the Nintendo Wii didn't create, but solidified the concept of a user avatar tied to a console UI that the Xbox 360 copied for Xbox LIVE, Microsoft didn't create but solidified the concept of the intangible braggable award for in-game progress known as an "Achievement" (that Sony and then Valve and then everyone else copied). There had often been in-game rewards for player accomplishment in games (from unlockable skins and costumes and cheats, etc), but none of that had been standardized like how Microsoft implemented them until they did.
And this DID work really well BTW. I would chalk up the Xbox 360's unique success over the PS3 largely due to Achievements (and Xbox LIVE Arcade, to be fair). The psychological reward mechanism of the concept was a very compelling draw to that console specifically until Sony copied it a couple years later.
Oh snap. Golden Golden Owl
For the extra gold
30:36 Likewise I think some of the best achievements are the ones that guides/encourages players towards experiencing the game the way devs fully intended. Challenge achievements like in Half-Life 2 "Go through Ravenholm with only the gravity gun" and in The Enchanted Cave 2 "Beat the game in a single run" made me engage with the game's mechanics more and appreciate the games more as a whole .
Personally I only go for 100% achievement completion when the effort that goes into getting it and my general enjoyment of the game balance each out.
The most memorable achievement for me is in the 2nd Deponia game, a Point & Click Adventure. During development the developers made small mistake during planning and at one point it was theoretically possible to have more items in your inventory than you have space, so they had to implement a scrolling bar for it when it happens. Doing that is the achivement.
Achivements made me go out there and play the game in different ways, and I now even pick up learning Mahjong for Yakuza. The games are fun, i want an excuse to play them more :D
the only game i've ever completed all the achievements for is hades. it takes a lot to motivate me to hunt for them, and hades just hits that sweet spot. one thing hades has that's not part of steam achievements but is awesome game design is the fated list of minor prophecies; they're optional goals that encourage you to try EVERYTHING. every boon, every keepsake, every weapon aspect, etc. all these things have a handy little symbol when you haven't selected it yet, so the process of completing them is pretty easy to track. if you've played any hades, you know that this is really valuable bc there's just SO much stuff to play around with, and yet it's organized so well in tidy lists like this. i had fun completing all the prophecies and all the achievements!
Hades is just an incredible game in general, full of all kinds of minor details hidden all over for a player to discover. I eagerly await the full release of the sequel
I will disagree on one thing. Achievements do not have no effect on players who don't care about them when it comes to multiplayer games.
Time and time again poorly thought out achievements have had negative impact on such games as the achievement grind and game win state become opposed. Leading to some players actively fighting againt their own team in order to extend matches as they need more time to finish their achievements or simply ignoring the team from the start to go do some side activity that will not help their team but award themselves with achievement points, leaving the other players on their team a man (or more) down and giving them a harder time.
A prime example from a long time ago. World of warcraft wrath of the lich king: Kill the dragon Sartharion without getting hit by lava walls that go across the arena.
Best way to earn it: Kill your character in the lava moat before any walls appear and let other players kill the dragon.
Fun for everyone involved!
Obviously not intended but such poorly planned achievements still come up time and time again in multiplayer games making achievement hunters a detriment and nuisance to the team
And then you have games like Garden Warfare 2 where there's a secret that involves going to hidden locations on EVERY. SINGLE. MULTIPLAYER. MAP. to get collectibles, AND achievements that are no longer obtainable as they're tied to events that don't happen anymore because the game is EIGHT YEARS OLD and isn't supported by the devs.
I'm forever stuck with "80%" completion despite having a nearly maxed out save file because of 20% of the achievements requiring these events, or worse...having friends in-game. There's literally an achievement for KO-ing a friend in their own backyard. Which I'll never get.
We are gathered here today to remember our dear comrades that haven't cleared Snezhnaya Does Not Believe in Tears: Series I for years.
In honor of their suffering, all players shall press F to pay respect.
Hehe, merely 4 years...
People say the achiever's true currencies are blood and tears...
As a completionist, achievements are a huge thing for me. I hate when games have online achievements (like Pokemon X and Y's medals), limited time achievements (like League of Legends' seasonal medals), or achievements that require you to restart your save if you missed it (like Assassin's Creed 2's Fly Swatter achievement that comes at the end of the story).
None of this is to mention the achievements that are just bad. Achievements that require dozens of hours of mindless grinding. Get the number 1 spot in a leaderboard where the top spots are exclusively held by cheaters. Achievements that require rare RNG results might be more painful than ordinary grindy achievements.
But the achievement system that I enjoyed the most was probably Kirby Air Ride's checklists. Even though they do require some RNG, I've never had to wait long to get the right setups. Those achievements often could be made much easier by changing the game's settings to aim for a specific outcome. Maybe you play with 1 CPU instead of 3, maybe you turn off items, maybe you turn rubberbanding on high and wait for the CPUs to lap you a couple times, it truly felt like a puzzle that you had tons of control over.
I'm someone who does best with direction, so chasing trophies certainly has extended the enjoyment I've gotten out of many games. Also I always laugh at Atelier Rorona's "Item Complete". Astrid says "Congratulations. Here you go", and nothing happens in-game but that's when the trophy appears. Pretty good gag.
I think my favourite kind of case study achievements are ones tied to using certain game mechancis in ways that the player wouldn't think to do, but not as a fun novelty, but to try to push them to better understand the systems, only for the suggested p;lay pattern to be, not good. For example, guilty gear strive has an achievement for doing a fast roman cancel into a special move 5 times while in a match. This technique is very character specific and most of the cast have zero eason to ever be doing this aside from going for this achievement, as usually going for a fast rc into a normal attack is better in most cases where a fast RC is suited. So to get this achievement I had to hook up a second controller and put an inactive player 2 in on local play just to do the achievement because there is no reason for my character to ever do this (I had thought this when I had like 300 hours of playtime, 500 hours later I still think this)
The system similar to achievements for shaping player behavior that I really like is the post-battle bonus type, for games that are experienced in discrete matches.
Smash Bros. Melee had this for its single-player and as the deciding factor in one multiplayer type (the first game had it to a lesser extent, too?), where players gained/lost points not only for KOs but also for their behavior - using a variety of attacks, using only a single attack, getting KOs via certain items, getting KOs in certain situations, taunting after you KO someone, not taking damage, taking a lot of damage, and plenty more. Some were indicative of a player's performance and habits, allowing them to show off or see where they might need to improve; others were amusing incidental occurrences or outright luck, such as KOing someone with 64% damage or ending a match under a flower's effect; a few were challenges that wouldn't likely be stumbled upon, such as Switzerland for completing a match without attacking or being attacked, or Mrs. Saturn for holding the same Mr. Saturn for 30+ seconds.
The NDS-era Yugioh games did this as well, granting bonuses for stuff like only having one Type or Attribute of monsters in your deck, summoning certain monsters (generally ones with difficult summon conditions), achieving specific instant-win conditions or otherwise notable finishes, removing cards from the opponent's hand or deck, using many (or no) Spells/Traps, using certain summon methods, etc. There's incentive to get as many bonuses in a duel as you reasonably can, because each one earned grants you a bit more DP for buying new cards and stuff, so this influences deckbuilding and playstyles. The challenge aspect for many bonuses is somewhat more involved, as achieving many of them requires not just changing how you play, like with Melee's challenges, but building new decks around each goal (also meaning you need to have the cards to build that new deck).
As an incidental contrast, I play Yugioh Master Duel from time to time. As a live service, it largely uses the grind-style "Missions" and some secret challenges alongside short-term goals, though there's a very simplified bonus system as well. Despite a decent amount of playtime, several of these lifetime missions are quite low on my account: activating cards from the GY, summoning cards from the GY, destroying monsters by battle, and activating Trap cards. This is because the deck I use almost exclusively is a janky Spell Counter Pendulum deck, where my monsters usually don't enter the GY to begin with, opponents' monsters are usually destroyed by effects before they can be run over, and I don't run Traps at all in favor of more Spells and Pends to gain more Spell Counters; while, at the time of writing, I have over 2000 Spell card activations, I've activated a Trap card _once_ (when testing a different deck for fun). While the bonus system of the DS games would've rewarded this behavior, Master Duel doesn't, and I just find it interesting.
31:12 It's not worthless. I love it! 🥰🤩
One of the most memorable and interesting achievement/trophy implementation I've ever seen is in a game called "A Rose In the Twilight" by NIS for the PSVita. The game itself is a 2D Puzzle-Platformer. And most of it's trophies are fairly straightforward. Some story based one, a couple bonus objective ones, a couple speedruns, etc.
There is one puzzle in the game that unlocks after you basically complete the game, like beating it and getting every collectible. The puzzle itself involves returning to a prior room with 3 stain glass windows (one of a bird, one of a starry sky, and one of a rose) which suddenly are now interactable. Clearly, interacting with them in a certain order is the code...but what is the hint?
Well, if you look at the trophies, you will see trophy names such as:
The Beautiful & Final Rose
Bouquet of Roses
Fly Away Little Bird
Quick Star
Canary's Knowledge
Thorn Road
Unheard Song
Red Moon
The answer is a 28 input long code in the order of going down the trophy list.
Once you think you are done with the game, it throws you one last riddle using almost literally everything you've done up till then.
The achievement I remember the most is from Garden Warfare 2: "Time to Go Outside:" "Promote a single character 5 times." Getting this achievement invovles maxing out a single character's level, and I recall this being one of the first achievements I ever got in the game, despite being one of the harder ones. Until I needed resources earned from character promotion, there was exactly one out of the 120+ characters in the game I actually used, since it's one of my favorites in the franchise. Definitely felt nice getting a little reward for being so thoroughly dedicated to being a Plasma One-Trick
I remember working so hard for those call of duty 2 and 4 veteran achievements and spending hours in the sniper mission where you fight waves of Spetnaz or whatever. As an adult, I totally stopped caring about achievements.
I think the achievements that left the biggest impact on me were the ones for the boss fights in Tales of Vesperia. The original game was on the 360, so it was a relatively fresh experience for me as a player and the team at Bandai Namco developing the game. What they did was have an achievement for every required boss fight, but it wasn’t for simply beating them, there were gimmicks for each fight you had to pull off. And while on paper most boiled down to “hit the boss at a certain point” or “break the tool the boss is using”, in execution you had to pull off some nifty tricks get the job done. Actually getting the achievement before the party killed the boss was a far greater challenge than winning the fight. It made the experience one of the most unique I’ve ever had in a JRPG.
Golden OWL Video including Yakuza Thumbnail....
SAY NO MORE!
I have all possible achievements in Genshin and i don't regret it one bit, there are many things that you won't realize unless you go for those achievements
The only time I ever went out of my way to get achievements was when Halo 3 was at its peak. I simply loved the game so much that I wanted to experience everything it had to offer and show that off to my friends. Outside of that one time, I’ve pretty much ignored achievements in all games I play.
I enjoy achievement hunting, but I don't enjoy fighting against incredibly specific RNG in order to even stand a chance at attempting an achievement.
Looking at you, HSR Swarm Disaster achievements. Absolute insanity.
I like achievements as a form of proof of conquest and superiority being one of a select group of only a few hundred maybe a thousand of the billions of people on earth who can and ahve done something even something niche is a feeling like no other. Everyone can say the completed a game but proving it can be kind of a pain while not perfect as cheating does still exist and several games don't have achievement systems or don't record their actual hardest feats in the system achievements still serve as a sort of mark of mastery over a game that is instantly recognizable. The introduction of achievements is also what pushed me to go from simply finishing games to completing them which has been a net positive as some games only truly shine when really dug into like that as well as revealing any cracks they have, it's made me a better critic and better able to sort what I like and why and better able identify design choices and philosophies. It's also one of the few things keeping me motivated at all really pretty much everything else in life is vague, ill defined, unclear on how to do even if defined, and often puts one at severe risk to attempt and or is one and done if you miss the chance that's it there is no retry nor chance to apply pracitcal knowledge gained from other attempts and requires years to a lifetime to get ergo isn't something one does and moves onto the next conquest and thus feel limiting and usually insanely expensive.
I did the Tarf achievement in Ys 2 Chronicles Complete where you have to grind this temporary character that you're supposed to escort to the maximum level.
It was pain.
First! Can't wait to watch!
Edit: okay so I finished the video (and also accidentally deleted the first draft of this edit which really hurts but the show must go on). I have only found one game (so far) where I went insane over collecting achievements and that was genshin lol. It's apparently the only game I cannot be normal about. I initially justified it by saying I was collecting primos for my next pulls especially because I am free to play (and indeed those primos are a nice motivator, even though you don't get an awful lot per achievement, but it does add up when you have 1200 achievements) but let's be honest, you were right, I do it to flex the big number on my ingame profile. It is not the first thing I have done as a flex in a game and I highly doubt it will be the last, I am just insufferable like that. I will admit recently I have slowed down on intentionally getting the achievements you don't just get through quests because it started to feel like a chore (ESPECIALLY the fishing achievement, I HATE fishing, fishing as a mechanic in a non-fishing game should die in a fire I hate it) but there is nothing quite like hearing that chime and seeing the achievement pop up, especially when you are not really hunting for it haha.
Oh and before I forget I really do appreciate tht extra captions you add in there (I always love it when there are extra captions lol). To anyone who watches without captions: turn them on, some of the extra ones are really funny imo.
Thank you for the video and I hope you'll enjoy the rest of your day!
Edit edit: do I get an achievement too for first comment or am I pushing my luck?
Even some of the almost entirely bad achievements like tedius grinds that take double digits worth of hours and no actual skill still have a silver lining as a sort of almost initiation ritual where people who have gone through the same feel a sort of unspoken kinship with each other for having gone through a similar trial. Even pure skill ones which are almost always better for achieving a similar result without needing to put basically put intentionally bad design into a game, by their nature as a skill based accomplishment do exclude some people whereas grinds as tedious as they are are something anyone of any ability can do given enough time.
The most memorable achievement to me has very little to do with the challenge of actually getting it, and in fact it is one of the achievements you get from naturally progressing through the story of the game. The achievement is Thermal Activity in Subnautica. The reason why it is so memorable to me is that I didnt get the achievement even though I should have it.
This is the highest honor. 31:05 🙃
I WANT PHYSICAL ACHIEVEMENT BADGES
PLEASE BRING THIS CONCEPT BACK
I play FFXIV, and as an MMO the game have an overwhelmingly high amount of achievements, some of which are super simple and take less than 5 min to complete, however some of them are very challenging and could take several days or even weeks to complete, and then there's a few achievements that quite literally take years to complete.
However, the good thing with MMO's and the vast amount of achievements is that you can just browse the achievement list and find something that you want to complete, and have that as your targeted goal, even some of the ludicrous achievements can be considered good if you have a good time collecting them, and in particular to MMO's the rewards are usually worth the effort, and you can usually find new ways to play the game.
6:10 this is exactly how i play games without achievments lol, with achievments stacked on top of that, i'm very glad most games i like don't have them lol
Said it before and I'll say it again: achievement lists give me anxiety, I hate to-do lists and I DO NOT need more in games. I disable achievement popups whenever possible and ignore them to the best of my ability. I play games as much as I feel like and stop when I don't want to play anymore. The one time a friend of mine convinced me to join in achievement hunting in a game, I ended up hating that game and never playing it again even tho it used to be one of my favorites... So yeah, never again.
I have my own experience with achievements. Im Autistic and Trohy hunt because of the dopamine and liked seeing the number go up and it make me achievements hunt like no other to try and 100% a game which hurt my enjoyment of a game at times and focus more on grinding. When I got a switch the urge to 100% wasnt as strong without the achievements there. Sure I do with stuff like pokemon but thats because they have an actual reward like shiny pokemon that i can use and train. There are games i play currently like skyrim and i dont 100% everything because of the characters I roleplay as. So I believe their is a discussion how dopamine like mechanics such as achievements or lootboxes can effect thise who are neurodivergent.
I always thought yakuza was a extremely serious game but looking at this video footage I might give it a try
Be warned: some of the funnier footage (like the intro and the butt-smash) comes from a fan mod for Yakuza Kiwami 2 ("The Silly Mod" by Totomojang). It's not always like that, I swear 😅
I’ve never 100% completed a game. It’s fun whenever I get the pop up saying I got an achievement, but that’s only while I’m playing the game. I rarely go out of my way to complete an achievement, unless I’m like 90% there or something. It’s never really bothered me.
I'm looking forward to a hidden imaginary platinum owl hidden achievement in a future video
My Favorite Achievement by FAR are the ones that invite you to play the game in a different way. For example I LOVE speedrunning achievements in Metroidvanias! Breezing through the game again on a second playthrough in a fraction of the time is so Satisfying! In my case I am talking about Hollow Knight and Ori 1 and 2. 😃
if you want a game with good achievements pizza tower is one becaeuse of its chef tasks there mostly in the challeging type of achievement.
I'm going to describe the first level john gutter's chef tasks on is awarded for breaking every john block wich are all on the main path and is hard to mess up. also it is most likely to signal to the player that there are achievements since it is one of the easy ones. now for the next two is defeat every enemy while maintaining your combo the exect number is 100 i bgelieve. as for the other it's beat the level in under a minute. Now both of these achievements are esentially training to get the best rank for a level wich is the p rank since you need to keep your combo going from the first room till the end whit getting everything important in a level (5 toppings,3 secret, and the single treasure) plus getting a high enough score.
Now since this is the first level after the tutorial these achievements where propably chosen to get the player acostumed to the game and controls before giving them more specific level achievements.
In games I actually play, I either play until I reach the ending credits or I play for 100% achievements.
The games with 100% achievements include 2 "Sniper" games, Ace Combat 7 and 2 "Jedi" games.
The 3D render of Kiryu and Majima in the thumbnail reminds of certain things
Meh, farming achievements is just stupid if it requires stopping having fun to get them.
as a pirate gamer i couldn't care less about achievements, what i like are secrets broken itens for replayability. you can see the damage of bragging numbers in the mastery points of league of legends
I hear the reason Nintendo has yet to create a unified achievement system is because they want a system that is unique to their platforms. I.e. something that distinguishes their achievement system from the other major players.
I don’t really think that’s the case. Nintendo have some of the most creative game developers out there, and have a corporate culture which actively encourages innovation from employees due to their business model.
If they really wanted an achievement system, they have more than enough creative ability, resources, money and time to invest into making one. The likely reason why they don’t is more likely because they just don’t want one
@@GoldenOwl_Game I paraphrase. I think I got that tidbit from a Did You Know Gaming video. I'm sure Nintendo looked into making a unified achievement system but decided not to implement one at the time. Of course, they may change their mind some day. Not that I have any complaints about the lack of such a system right now; such a system was never a draw for me.
I should patent the achivments so they cant use it :P
hm, i was hoping for more talk about people like me that absolutely dont care about achievements at all. i usually forget they even exist and that people play games for them tbh. i get why theyre put into games but not why people like me dont care about them
glad theyre not a waste of dev time tho
I faintly recall _some_ achievements even rewarded you for unlocking them. On Xbox it could be themes or avatar pieces, in TF2 it’s usually unlockable hats or weapons. But 99% of the time all it is is bragging rights
"hah made you look" 💀 🤣
I don't want to check how many games I have 99% of the trophies or achievements in that are blocked by a single ANNOYING gnat of a challenge that is just too annoying to deal with...
I do wanna say though that at least for my understanding, achievements that are "launch the game" have a bad reputation. especially for achievement hunters on steam, since the first achievement makes it so you have to 100% the game in order to keep your Average Game Completion Rate statistic high on your profile. its better (in my opinion) if the game gives you a moment to check if you are able to interact with it properly, if you can see yourself enjoy it given the controls etc. before throwing an achievement into your face, having you commit to getting more if thats your achievement hunting philosophy.
just for my personal view games that give out an achievement for launching the game have a bad achievement game design to them. it feels weak, it feels besides the point of what an achievement is and i usually immediatelly like such a game less than i otherwise would.
reccomend any books on this? Im assuming its game theory.
No, achievements are not the art of gamifying suffering. They are the art of gamifying conscientiousness.
Only people lacking conscientiousness call them 'suffering' and if you are the one, you don't have to bother with achievements.
kinda wish they brought back the real badges would be kinda cool but then again anti cheat...
Ah yes, very important first 10 seconds of this video hm hm😅😅
Erm, why are Genshin Fans in Yakuza?
Perfectly average Yakuza experience
Touhou fans abound as well, if you play it right :)
I 100%’d Danganronpa on Steam, and I hate that I did it because it involved numerous rounds of gacha and a stupid cleaning game I wish J never had to play again in order to collect (and this is not a joke) every character’s underwear
"tests of RNG and a player's willingness to put up with the game's bullshit"
Hsr player, am not gonna touch "Nick of Time" and "the Predator" with 10-ft pole 💀
I hate achivments with passion. Even since they started showing in wow.
Genshit is even worse. They put limited gatcha currency under those. And some of them are such a pain to do that 5 feels like a insult from devs. (wuwa is even worse as some feel broken) No i still havent done the one where you have to talk to a single npc 1000 times.
Oh if you want a realy shitty achivment --- Golden Nut in satisfactory. People refuse to spend 300 hours in single game just to get those 1000 tickets to obtain it and rather just use a bug in game to duplicate tickets.
Pokemon black and white 2 achivments were whatever. Press A to skip as fast as possible.
If as a dev you have to add those in game:
DO NOT MAKE THEM F ANOYING --- like wasting your time doing X thing X times
DO NOT PUT ANY CURRENCY UNDER THEM --- something like titles are fine
EITHER KEEP ALL OF THEM HIDDEN OR NONE
Timed and area non-sense ... stand here at exact time and place for something to happen to get it
DO NOT PUT TUTORIAL INTO IT
I thought Achievements are the things Asian parent leverage against their children in order to arbitrarily use in order to brag at their neighbours
But ya know, barely reward their children for it, nor actually do the "acknowledging" thing
I don't quite understand why players say hate achievements so much. The players are typically not stupid but sometimes you need achievements to remind them "You can do this" or "have you tried this combination" . I understand people hating "collect all 80 feathers" achievements but the achievements should A) reward the player for meeting milestones in story or skill & B) incentivise them to play the game in the most fun way possible. C) inform them there's more to enjoy
Ninja garden does this with Thier speedrun or A rank achievements. The game is at its best dodging and not getting hit. And lastly let them know they haven't explored or seen everything .
Gamers complain about cluttered UI and being hand held but Achievements are a good way of communicating all of this with putting it in your face, it's outside of the game.
People love speedrunning and achievement hunting yet the most pervasive talking point is people saying they don't like these things. It's very odd