Heavy Shaping Action
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Getting in some more heavy shaping, testing different tool grades and tool grinds to compare results between cuts. The material I used is a 10" block of mild steel. I'm also testing the use of the Noga Mini cool on the shaper.
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My second TH-cam channel that covers our fun explorations and traveling.
Abom Adventures / @abomadventures
"let's see how big we can go on this shaper" = Best Quarantine-Era activity/video I've seen thus far. The acoustics on that slow-mo drop is like bells ringing
Back in the day (wails of anticipated horror!) we used a tool very much like the second negative/positive grind you had on the 1" Mo-Max. It was very effective on brass, soft and cast bronze, aluminum, and lower strength steels like MIL-S-871B (Navy) steel plate. Hot rolled steel plate, rounds, and shapes (A36) commonly found in steel yard racks are a stronger. The acute edge angle might be a bit fragile in your application. I suggest you break your tool's keen edge to a 0.005" champher to strengthen it against crumbling.
If I recall correctly, the shaper tool grind we used back before dinosaurs rode skateboards (that was the actual extinction event: Chixilube is a myth of convenience) was 7 degrees side clearance, 10 end clearance, -15 degrees edge rake, 40 degrees top rake, and 0.40 nose radius, edge honed to a bright line champher..
Upvote this guy! Adam needs to see!
March 29th, 2020 - Florida man injured from rolling his ankle on what he calls "some chips"
I need to clean off my shaper and do something with it. Your inspiring me Adam
Interesting how the chip gets compressed. It's not as long as the stroke of the cut.
Yup. That's how chip formation works. When a cutting edge is forced through ductile metals a chip of deformed metal is produced curling off the tool as it follow the feed path.
Imagine a coin stack toppled into an overlapping row representing the undisturbed metal to be cut by the passing tool before its deformed into a chip. As the tool passes, the metal shears along descrete planes that slip and realign our metaphorical row of overlapping coins into a stack. Apply a strip of tape up one side of the stack to represent the shiny side of the chip where weakly fused metal holds the slip planes together. The overlapping row of coins is rearranged into a shorter thicker stack and our metaphor is complete.
It's interesting to see how much the chips are compressed. I.e. 10" block, but the chip looks to be about 3-4" long.
Yah i was wondering why does this happen?
@@stevieray667 I think it’s because the metal gets compressed as it’s being cut away.
The groan of metal being sheared, and the “tock” of the clapper box...ASMR! 💆♂️⚙️🧠❤️
Especially in SLO-MO. They sound like manly wind chimes at the end.
*(Does Tim Allen grunts)*
Robot toe nail clippings all over the floor
I'm not the only one that thinks this is beautyful right?
Slow mo looks like one of those snakes you buy for 4th. of July.
If you want to get a gauge on how "hard" you're pushing machine - hook up an ammeter/amp-clamp to one of the motor leads. Watch the current as it enters the cut. How close it is to the motor's rated current should give you an idea of the "load".
American Locomotive You are certainly correct! Look at the current when the ram cycles but not cutting vs. taking a heavy cut. That difference gives you an idea of the power (voltage x current = power in watts) required for the cut. Knowing the time to make the cut, one can approximate the energy (watt-seconds or joules) required. Finally, since we know the length of cut, one might be able obtain a reasonable estimate of the cutting tool force. Just a thought. Be well! Gottfried
Sweet! You should make a chip collector that uses a big electro magnet that turns on 1/2” before the end of cut to collect the chip and turns off when the ram retracts 1/2’ dropping the chip into a funnel leading to a bucket on the floor. That would be so 1940s manufacturing.
Adam,
There is something almost meditative watching the first 4- 5 minutes. This behemoth of a machine ,taking these delicate
cuts off a chunk of steel like it was modeling clay . The same satisfaction a fine furniture maker gets from that last shave with a plane that makes the joint vanish . Stay healthy brother ,
already waiting on your next post .
Just what we need right now! Thanks
What a beast! Maybe you could make a wind chime from the chips
Great video. Heavy cuts. Good camera location. Thank you for sharing
That is impressive, I am a former truck driver, and found your channel while recovering from a leg amputation. I really like listening to all your explanations and most of all how easy you are at moving and setting things down. If I could ever afford to send you a post to my prosthetic I would love to have you turn a design into what is exposed. It's a titanium piece. I might suggest a set of screens to set up around the shape. It will offer you the ability to move around the machine without that big box to work around and lift up. Yeah you still have to sweep the floor but unrestricted movement and lightweight frames with screen material of some sort seems to be the answer. Good show for tig welding 45's at the corners
When the included angle of the clearance and rake
angles become too small
it creates two problems.
It weakens the cutting edge and is more prone
to chip. Second,it doesn't
disperse heat away from
cutting edge as well and
is more prone to burn.
Keep the shear it cuts
smoother with less chatter. A wide or long
cut can bang when it
enters the work .
I am a tool & cutter grinder by trade .
That's very nice video for me. I am from China and I have many old machines for crankshaft produce. Now I am selling CNC machines and sometime I feel the old machine is garbage，but now I feel that I got some golds! Thank you.
Hey man I really love your Channel, I love listening to you explain stuff, you don't bullshit or drool over subjects you get straight to the point and that way we could watch the work actually being done which is great, particularly love this session, awesome watching the work being done on that block, thanks man keep up the good work, Cheers...👍
"Keep em CONTAMINATED right here" I think you meant contained but everyone has the virus on their mind lol
You can hear that machine working
A possible source of income - bag or box some of those chips for craft use; or even art.
HI Adam, regarding the damage to the tool, please take a look at the video starting at approx 18:27.
My (extraordinarily uninformed/uneducated) supposition is that the tool is being damaged on the backstroke as it rubs against the workpiece.
When the tool returns on the backstroke it is rubbing on the workpiece. When the next forward stroke happens you can see that the tool is leaving a wavy/imperfect cut (a horizontal line) in the same section of the tool where the tool was rubbing against the workpiece on the backstroke.
Chips, nah.. Those aren't chips, they are chunks. Sounds like if one falls on your toe, its good bye toe.
From pre dinorsors a time lost.
System changes. My time in steal manufacturer 1960s when the metal was plentiful CUTS were CUTS time was premium.
Mill rolls were BIG .
Now Concast no need for 6 meter rolls to shape INGOTS.
A cut could be 100mm or 4 inches deep. Feed rate / step over started at 10% cut ie. 10mm /0•4inch that is the way it was. Tools were made to wear and stay effective for hours.
Billet steel holding the cutting edge. Turning the tool was tungsten carbide. Shaping usually low grade HSS the speed of the chip leaving the tool was important. Heat building on the tool is death. The chip must take the heat away. Often faster cutting speed reduces wear.
REDUCES wear. Longer chips made by leaning the tool over increases tool life with the same step over. It is better to take small cuts like this quickly, rarther than deeper cuts slowly (heat transfer)
Power is needed. When the chip is too heavy for man to lift a railway car is used under the machines.
The noise is deafening when the chip falls.
These sizes are real. The technology obsolete now.
Reminds me of an old Axelson lathe we had in our shop. That thing had enough torque to pull over a house I believe. Guy running set it with 1 inch depth of cut, 2 inches off the diameter. Had a carbine insert tool with an adjustable chip breaker. You could literally hear that thing popping chips across the whole machine shop. :)
To prove your table movement theory causing chatter, could you put a toe jack under table whilst taking a heavy cut to see a before and after?
Easier than stripping a machine down.
Also, could you try your LNMX in shaper head as a video clip?
Really nice stuff.
With that machine, you need a hardhat with your safety glasses!
@3:23 that hanging chip was triggering my OCD! I wanted to swipe it away!
every time it takes a pass, it sounds like unrolling some packaging tape. lol
A very impressive amount of power at your disposal. But be great fun to operate.
Other content: Let’s dial in ten thou and see what happens.....
Abom: Lets just take a 1inch skim cut......
There, done and fixed:)
I haven't seen an operational shaper since my apprenticship from mid to late 70's. Is it just me or can anyone else smell the heat in the chips ?
where does one even get a cube of steel like that?
Ping Pong
From the shop his brother works at! Adam explains that right at the beginning.
Great shots on the shaper! Does the shearing action compact the chip? It doesn't appear the chips have the full 10" length after they come off the end. They look to be 3 or 4 inches?
I think you'll need heavy equipment to pick up those chips!
You should see if any other makers who work with resin would want to make anything with the colorful chips.
Have you seen the hydraulic monster that Kurtis over at Cutting Edge down under has got set up? :D th-cam.com/video/fNH8ztBgd30/w-d-xo.html
Not bad. Someday you'll be ripping those 2" 0.030 chips off like Cincinnati had in that one photo. Just need some A12 steel like they had lol.
Hey Abom79, when will you show us the flexarm working. Let's tap some holes.
Adam, I’m not a machinist but I really enjoy your channel. Thanks for all the great content. Would it be fair to say that when making these long cuts that, ideally, if you unrolled the chip, you’d want it to be as close to the length of the cut as possible? That would mean that you are more cutting the metal off than pushing/compressing it out of the way. I noticed on some of the earlier heavy cuts with a big step over the chips were really thick and much shorter than the overall cut. Like a 6” long cut was yielding at 2” long chip. Just curious. Also, when building the new chip tray, would a funnel at the bottom be useful? That way you could put a bucket/bin below and not have to remove the tray periodically to empty it, just change out buckets. Thanks!
I would love to see this with a FLIR/TIC
When abom goes to the store to buy chips, he walks past the lays giggling, he then grabs a bag of whole russet potatoes and says “now these are chips!”
Each chip equals one Nissan Micra front fender 😅
Nissan MicrA
COULD WATCH THIS KIND OF THING FOR HOURS.
That ol' girl defines 'cool" ! How many factors come into play when the Shaper is just repeating the cut and yet not one chip lands in the same place?
Some REALLY complicated physics? 🤷🏻♂️
There is something oddly satisfying about watching a shaper run. Thank you for taking us along! 👊😉📸
Can you put your makers mark on one of them bigger chips and sell it to me?
Hey, Abom. How about a raffle for those heavy chips for charity?
If by "chip" you mean enough steel to forge a 10mm wrench...
you're so good at making satisfying videos in this domain of mechanical process, well done Abo, well done! ⚙️💪
oooh, lets take a hunk of steel and make huge chips. I am down with that
I see "Heavy Shaping Action" and I click on it faster than "Free Toilet Paper Giveaway."
Yeah, i especially miss the old shop videos of the big lathe and mill jobs. So damn entertaining. It's like ASMR for your eyes!
My Cincinnati Heavy duty 24 shaper book shows it cutting a chip .030 feed x 2 inch cut.
Thinking you have lots more capacity in your machine.
Cutting curly fries. LOL
Listening to this machine makes me sleepy.
Now he’s just showing off 😱😳😂
I still think you should make something out of that block on the shaper, such as a regulation size gaming die (as dice). That would requires lots of 'heavy shaping action'!
That's amazing metal being shaved like that machine has massive power I'm surprised hss can cut like that for that long
Your close up shots of working machinery are so good I have to wear safety glasses while watching! 🤓
You'll be finding chips for years to come. In boxes, under tables.
Don't forget about the soles of your boots
Abom, I really enjoy all of your videos. In watching this one I noticed the tool dragging on every return stroke. I think that if you tilted the clapper box over to left of center rather than having it right of center you'll find that the tool swings out and away from the work on the return stroke. Then the spm cold be increased a little and it would really fly out on the return stroke. Of course your tool alignment would be same as your using now, it just wouldn't drag at all on the backstroke.
Thanks for the feedback it kind of hurt me to see his tool dragging on every backstroke. Yours was the only feedback. Also many people are surprised to learn that the backstroke is faster that the forward stroke. I pointed that out to an old hand who was running a 48 inch shaper. He asked me what I'd been smoking. I had him count the forward strokes and backstrokes during one minute. He couldn't believe it.@@mjm7187
Oh good, new episodes of The Shaper Channel, er, I mean Abom79! Fun to see machines used to their capacity.
The sound of the tool holder clapping back down before the next cut is so soothing
abom could you explain why the length of chip isnt the same as the length of cut.
jason s it pushes material into itself
I noticed that too. The chips also seem to be thicker than the cut.
@@paulfredericks6477 you just explained the chip length being shorter than the cut answering Jason’s question and agreeing with Nicco’s observation.
If you look at the chip when the shaper approaches the end of the block, you can see that the chip is being compressed. You can see that the surface finish changes from shiny to this dull finish, like if you are pushing a lathe too much. I wonder you didn't notice that, even though you noticed the size difference
One of your chips has more mass than half of Gotteswinter's projects combined
Heavy shaper cuts are really a controlled tool crash. I love it! I could watch a shaper or planer cut for hours. First machinist job I ever had was running a 30’ planer marching press brake and shear tool platens. That was 45 years ago and I’ve missed it ever since.
Pot those chips in resin and make keychains, I'd buy one
Careful...those chips look they could knock some teeth out
Yup, no need for introduction, straight to the good stuff!!
Thanks for sharing, Adam.
I love the sound in slow motion.
I realize the shaper is fun to use, just a relaxing piece of equipment. But can you get the sfm up high enough to use a left hand cnmg?
I am happy seeing at least a few people know how to set up the clapper box correctly. I started off in the machining trade running shapers. We always pointed the chips toward a wall. A 16 inch long cut, 1/2 inch deep at .020 feed in 6150 steel would fill up a catch box very quickly. Had to put a sheet of plywood against the wall as the chips were chipping out a hole in the cement blocks.
Great machine for running contours on stamping die sections. Love your videos. Keep up the good work. PS, I still own three. @ bench top Atlas models and a 16 inch Varnamo made in Sweden.
34m05s ... the bells of St. Abom...:)
I noticed that the notch (wear) in the tool coincide with the top edge of the block when in the return stroke. You have to watch the video in slow motion to notice the problem
Wow.. them are some serious chips
If you rig up an amp clamp on your mains feed, that will give you a good number to look at as far a loading up the machine.
Watching a shaper work is like watching a fire or bug zapper. You can't hardly take your eyes off it. I have a small 7 " shaper and always think I'm going to get it cutting on a job while I run the mill or lathe but always end up watching the shaper cutting chips. I love them.
Adam, You should really invite The Slow Mo Guys to your shop. You could probably get some fantastic slow motion action of your machines. I'd watch.
We've all seen them ...now they have a name......the "ABOM CHIP"
All of y’all talking about making something out of those chips: check out Scott Wadsworth’s the essential craftsman channel. th-cam.com/video/RI5JBOsS3AY/w-d-xo.html Adam sent Scott a box of 4140 chips, which (along with some other ingredients) Scott made into an axe head. Very cool content!!
I would love to know how many tons of force it takes the shave that steel like that.
That can be calculated if you know the output of the motor, the ratio in belts and gears and the setting of the stroke. Could be fun to do that.
You only need to know the cut surface and the shear strength of the metal...
High school metal shop, I learned skills on machines like these, Logan shaper, Atlas lathes,milling machines stick welding... they sold off all the equipment put computer stations in . Skilled tradesman, machinists ,fabricators,welders are in demand now. Those that can work with their hands will never lack for a job. Thanks for educating .
I found this relaxing and satisfying 😊 Thanks!
Very interesting how the chip kinda compress and end up being shorter than the actual cut. And that second cut looks like youre manufacturing main bearings for an engine haha
That is a large block of steel. I have no use for one, but I want one.
I'd also need the complementary shaper. Wouldn't have a block of steel for long though.
Have you ever thought about getting in touch with the slowmoguys? Y'all could do an awesome collab!
The Shaper is back. I missed my little buddy. 😂👍👍
Thank you for showing how to grind single bit tools. I set up a fly cutter for the first time last month. After several trips back to the grinder, I was able to get a beautiful glassy smooth cut. I would never have thought a single hand ground bit would preform so well. I like that you show us what dosen't work and how to adjust the geometry to improve the performance.
Your chips are larger than most of my parts
I wonder how much metal per minute is being removed, and compared to what you could do on a mill. Would need to do some math. Pretty sure I've seen you run a 1"" roughing mill cut, not sure the step over and speed though. Is the new S&M shaper more powerful than this one?
so whats the perks of using a shaper as opposed to a mill, other than the coolness factor
I hope you are new here. That is touchy ground you are exploring!
Cost of sharpening a bit.
I'll bet everyone here would pay a couple of bucks for a chip or two! (plus shipping)! Abom merchandise at it's best...
I know the chips curl but the length of the chip does not "appear" to be as long as the cut is
I was thknking the same, maybe the beat causes it to shrink?
I just noticed that!
they look more than 0.020 thick too, so I would wager that the material is packing up, making a shorter but heftier chip.
I think it's compressing the "bar" of steel that's being carved off. It's effectively a 0.040" x 0.5" bar being pushed into itself by the friction against the face of the tool. If you stood a bar that size vertically in the press, or tried to upset it at an anvil, it wouldn't take much force to make it thicker. If you pause at 4:12 you can see that the chip is wrinkled which will make it thicker and shorter too.
I love how the slomo chips sound like bells. Very reminiscent of Pink Floyd's Time.
I love the sound in the slo-mo.. Back in the 70's the Rex AAA was my go to lathe tool.
Man I like watching that shaper run! Not sure why.....just do! Thx Adam!!!
Making piles of robot eyebrows
Finally some Abom sized chips - looks like I see a little collab project on the bench. Keith Rucker’s stoker engine? Doing some spray weld buildup?