Honda CRF450L v KTM 450EXC - The lightweight ADV bike Test
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 มี.ค. 2019
- Can the new Honda CRF450L keep up with the tried and tested KTM 450EXC? Can an enduro bike really performa as an adventure machine? Adventure Spec took to the UK Trans Euro Trail to give the two bikes a proper testing on the hardest trails they could find...
- ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Back in the day round the world trips were done on XR and XT500's. Then the adventure bike bug bit and the bikes just got bigger and bigger. Now manufacturers are going back to smaller displacement bikes. Glad I'm still riding an old Klr650 and an XR650R.
Great talk, really enjoyed it.
I really likes the way how honest you guys were.
This was fantastic, quickest hour I've had in a long time, felt like I was there with you's, great format :)
That's a great conversation to have sat and listened to. Very interesting view points and observations.
This has been by far the best review (IMO) of the CRF450l that I’ve seen so far. I hadn’t realized the UK / EU version makes only 25HP. Sorry for you guys. As a Yank with plenty of wide open spaces here in the US, the Honda is a bike I’m seriously considering for my next new dual sport ride. Thanks for the in-depth discussion.
awesome video, amazing editing, great drone shots, and bikes.... love it!
Very very interesting review of the bikes. Also love the drone shots. Hopefully look forward to more reviews from you.
Have watched/listened this probably 10 times...love this chat format...would love to see more of this on other bikes and adv topics.
Have you got amnesia
Great video guys! Tons of info. So much variety these days it's crazy!
Enjoyed watching that, thanks for taking the time to make the vid! Hopefully once Honda have more data on how the engine wears with age, they'll increase the oil change intervals. Both seem like great bikes 👍
Amen to that!
Yes a bit long, but i was left wanting more! AWSOME Analysis of two great motorcycles.
Brilliant comparison of the two bikes. I’ve been lucky enough to have a 450L for a year or so now and absolutely love it for the very reasons you gave. Adequate on road, light and a great trail bike. Thanks for the vid! Awesome!
Great to hear!
Awesome no bullshit comparison. The honesty is very refreshing!
Super interesting, many thanks for sharing!
Really appreciated the thoughts on the noise -- agree with your philosophy on trying to be less hooligan and as quiet as possible on the trails.
This was brilliant stuff gents! It is really helpful in many ways.
Superb video, very comprehensive and informative. All the trademark editing splendour from Greg coupled with some very refreshing honesty made this a great watch. Given the passions that get stirred by the CRF vs KTM debate, I'd anticipate some vigorous 'opinion' to result. Personally, I think there's far more important things to get worked up about. Horses for courses, vote with your wallet/credit card and be happy with your choice and have fun.
Oh, and I need Noel to build me a cabin!
+1 on the Cabin...
Really appreciate that honesty, Í want my bike to win, so I was like grrr'. Means a lots. I love that I felt you gave the Honda a chance!
I'm a bit later here, but man this is a good Video! Two Moto-Journalists calmly talking about Bikes for more than 10 minutes. One seemingly actually listening to the other. And both consider their own subjectivity and explain their background. 🙏That's strong, I thing
Excellent balanced discussion. Very informative. Both are really great bikes for different reasons. You make excellent points about why each bike would be a good fit for different types of riders.
Great video chaps. It seems the 450L with the ecu to release its full power would be a great allround bike for adventures and trails.
Fantastic video with lots of great insights. You guys should do bike reviews!
Thanks for the video guys I’m right in that market of light adventure biking so very interesting to hear. I hadn’t thought about the fact that these enduro bikes (exc for example) wear due to lack of cushioning on the rear wheel / transmission... so that’s definitely a recommended mod to make if using for travel... I think the crf uncorked with some of your travel add ons would be a fantastic choice of a bike for a long adv trip. My previous bikes have been 690 and a 701 brutally capable for fast track stuff, but honestly for an off road biased trip such as the TET I’d probably be even happier with a lighter more agile 450. 20kg in the trails does make a difference
I agree with all comments regarding the fair and honest opinion..seems like a thorough review and appreciate the honesty in comparing YOUR personal bike and your attachment to it to the Honda. There is always a better bike out there, but none of them are cheaper than the one you own right now...just keep riding and thanks again.
“None of them are cheaper than the bike you own right now.”
Words of financial wisdom.
Thanks fellas,
That was a superb and in depth view of the two bikes and their individual merits...and there in lies the ultimate conundrum.
Individual: it's all about our ( as riders ) individual needs, wants and the acceptable floors of our chosen steed.
On a side note it was great to see Jasper Carrott looking so well 😍👍
Thanks for watching!
Great video with all the bases covered very thoroughly. It would seem with a couple hundred quid spent on the US spec ECU and throttle tube the 450L would be an all conquering trail bike.
Many thanks for the vid, yes I did stick with it>-) Fair and honest assessment. very good point about the crf service interval and the hp difference. I hadn't thought about that. puts a different perspective on the crf now. many thanks for taking the time. cheers.
Great video guys, and although it was done in 2019 I think it is still relevant today. The one thing that is different, is that up until a few months ago, dealers in the UK were selling them for £8600, which included the full power pack and full Honda warranty. I wanted a Husky/KTM, but the dealer wasn't particularly friendly or helpful, so went to my local Honda dealer and bought the CRF450L instead. I must say, I am very happy with it, and it does not disappoint especially with the full power ECU. I might spend the money I saved on purchase to get a Vortex and Yoshi pipe, as that's what most seem to say is the best upgrade. But I'll reserve judgement until Ive ridden it a bit more. Great video though, many thanks.
Be a good laugh to see one of the bigger adventure bikes try the technical gully :-)
"gully" that's a wet river bed! :)
Thank you both. This is so refreshing compared to the shouting that’s been going on in YT vids and comments by people whose opinions are almost certainly not really worth listening to regarding the Honda. I will never be in the market for either bike (I’ll be either stopped riding or stopped living by the time a decent Honda drops into my price bracket). But to see you ride the two machines, and then listen to your opinions was great. Long video, but worth it. Les
The Rekluse auto clutch combined with the traction control of the Vortex ECU and the CRF450RL will walk right up those technical sections 👍😊
I love the ending, "Choice is a good thing". I love how honda came out with a crf dual sport. Even though KTM seems to have been the leader of aggressive dual sports I like to think that the crf450l is a very good bike in it's own right.
Definitely! Thanks for watching
Great vid. One thing I could say is you should really strive to keep at least one foot on a peg at all times. I know it can be tough in a really rocky segment like this, but if you're quick you can switch back and forth. This will give you so much more control over the bike. When you have both feet off, you will not have much control over the bike anymore, and will be at the mercy of the track.
I was leaning 450 or 500 EXC and ended up pulling the trigger on a 450L. I am waiting on the new race ECU and then I will install the FMF pipe and header and start ripping around on this machine. So pumped!
Great review, ride hard, be safe.....
Excellent video gents. Not in the market for either but a lot of the points you raise are relevant for anyone considering what bike to buy. Am building an ‘adventurised’ DRZ400 at the moment as it suits what I want to do and will be heading out on the UK and Europe TET later in the year. Keep up the good work :)
Great comparison. Thanks much. As a 250L owner, I would highly recommend the Dobeck Performance Electronic Jetting Controller to others. It completely brings the bike to life and is well worth every penny. I resisted buying it for quite a few years because I just wasn't sure it would make that much difference for the price, but it's absolutely night and day. It goes from lugging in the low end to spinning the rear wheel with ease. Haven't test ridden the new 450L yet, but looking forward to doing so. Thanks again for bringing us along on this adventure!!
100% Yes. The Dobreck EJK is the third thing I would buy for a CRF250l if I bought another bike (we bought a new 2103 model when they first arrived). It transforms its behaviour without making it loud or intrusive.
The first thing would be a bashplate, the second handguards...
@@adventurespec I noticed there was little or no mentioned about the throttle response of the CRF, which I've heard is on/off, not smooth, which I have found similar to my CRF Rally. Does the Dobreck smooth out the throttle mapping and response? I put a Throttle Tamer on my Rally and while it helps, it certainly doesn't eliminate the on/off response. Recently road a KTM 500 and it was so much smoother, albeit stronger.
Great video, really appreciated the candid approach. To be fair, though, to people like myself that would never consider taking a bike off of the showroom floor and getting on with it straight away. Upgrading the suspension is always on the list of performance items followed by wheels and tires before power upgrades.
Very well thoughtout and presented , i loved the long format , id love an adventure spec podcast.
You're not the only one to ask about that...standby!
Amazing review
Thank you!
Fantastic review and discussion guys. Certainly puts the CRF450L on the list of bikes to consider. You should of mentioned that the CRF450L only needs 1.1L of oil (+filter), which is not too expensive for the type of adventure trail riding you guys do.
Hi Guys
Thanks for videoing your trip.
As we all know a great rider can ride anything us average Joes struggle, it’s what you can afford to get out there & have a go.
Practice practice & having a go is the secret, anyhow go the Honda for me as it’s cheaper so I can spend more money on Fuel.
Thanks from a Australian
Great video, you've addressed lots of my niggles about the CRF as a potential weekend-trailbike-that's-good-for-the-TET-too. I'd love to see a follow-up with an uncorked bike though.
Lovely to watch, thank you very much for sharing! You both are that kind of guys I would love to ride with 🤓🤙 I’m just back from two weeks desert training in Morocco and had the chance to try out an ˋ19 ECX-F 500 in deep sand and steep dunes and I was quite impressed how smooth this bike to ride is. So soon I found myself checking my savings and wondering, whether I can and will affort it. Today I had a nice conversation with a local KTM dealer and he told me I should consider the 450 EXC-F as well which in his opinion is more capable for the kind of stuff I like to ride. That’s the reason why I watched your video today...
Best regards from freezing f...king cold Germany
You buy a £9600 CRF 450F but get the same 25HP as a CRF250L .... What the heck ?
Thanks for posting the video... brilliant banter. Good luck with your young family John ... being a dad is amazing.
I’ve done thousands of km on an EXC450 in Portugal. It certainly isn’t twitchy!
The only drawback with the bike is the dealers are painful to engage with and the bikes are quite expensive.
Even for “mildly” talented trail riders the EXC is a great choice. Stump pulling torque and brilliant engineering.
I can’t think of a reason to buy the Honda. (Though I’m curious that the Honda may be better on the road)
Interesting, I find my EXC 450 a real chore for longer duration road work. Stops me riding it further afield and sticks me to local trails.
Great discussion. Thanks guys.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video. The only think i don't like from the CRF is the oil change every 1000 kms. For long distance travelers that will be a pain in the ass. Regards from Chile!
It's not a long distance travel bike. And 1000 km is quiet a long interval compaired to KTM's excs.
Great conversation. Thank you. I would like to add that 2017 and newer EXCFs (250, 350, or the 500) are about 40-45 lb. (20 kg) lighter than the 450L in fully fueled and stock condition. Having said that the EXCFs don't have a subframe so probably much less suitable for adventuring. I also would like to add a comment about the KTM service intervals. I don't race my 2017 250 EXCF, it has done almost 10 000 km and 210 hours. I've checked the valves twice and they are mint. I change the oil about every 1000 km. In my experience so far, the KTM service intervals are race intervals. I am considering adding the 450L as a lightweight adventure bike.
Actually, Honda advertises wet weight where ktm advertises dry weight. Big different, you’re talking 20 pounds with that distinction
I would love to do that gully, looks great ! But I’d love to do it on a proper bike...
XR400 😉
Ide love a lighter adventure bike over my xt660z... But I can get up most hills and manage most green lane... I have massive fuel range and 6k miles between service intervals... Its hard to give it up!
Great video! Thank you
Great comparison, thank you very much. Greg, it would really nice to have this comparison again, but this time with your new AJP PR7 against Mark Lewis's Husqvarna 701 Enduro. I would love to see that.
Thanks. We will do a PR7 review as soon as we can
Great video gents 😊
Glad you enjoyed it
Very keen on hearing more about the CB500X; especially comparing it to the CRF450L - I know it's apples to oranges but unless Honda comes out with a CRF450 Rally that little X holds more promise for me.
I was torn between a Husky, KTM and the 450L, having decided to change my 250L. After thinking about what I wanted from the bike, I went with the 450L and have no regrets. You certainly wouldn’t think it only has 25BHP, for my purpose it doesn’t need anymore. As for price, plenty of dealers willing to do deals, I paid less for the 450L than I would have for the KTM/Husky.
You paid less because it's not the same quality, don't get me wrong a Honda is a honda, good solid platform, but the ktm, husky is top notch, just sayin, take care, and ride safe....
I guess it depends what you mean by the word ‘quality’.
For me, Honda’s build quality and reliability are second to none. Hence why they offer a 2 year warranty, KTM/Husky offer 30 days or 6 months?).
Horses for courses, if I wanted an MX track bike, then I would have chosen a KTM/Husky, but as I wanted a Dual Sports, I chose the Honda.
If we all liked the same thing, the world would be a boring place.
Nick Hants I’m with you on this. The honda is a more modern platform than the venerable drz. I don’t need the super high performance of the euro bikes. It’s all in what you want/need from the bikes.
I have only ridden in the US Southwest, I would love to do that trail one day soon.
thank you for such an indepth review. maybe 2 more questions - to what older model Honda´s would you compare crf450l to and which bikes would you, from KTM and from Honda, recommend for daily commute, longer weekend trips and trails together?
I love the idea of testing it against the CB500x, here’s a plan:
TET ride
CRF450
310gs (Rally Raid)
CB500 (Rally Raid)
KTM790 Adventure R
Yamaha Tenere 700
KTM 1090 Adventure R
BMW 1200gs
With good riders on, particularly on the big stuff, to see what they are really capable of against one another.
Now that would be an epic test 😎
There are a LOT of bikes there! Perhaps we could split it into two. The top 3 plus an Enfield Himalaya and then the bottom 4?
Loved this review, thanks chaps… I’m at a point where my riding on/off road has changed, but still doing the long adventure trips is key, and selling my Africa Twin and getting the CRF450L has been on the cards, and THIS video has helped confirm I’m about to make the right decision, so THANKS
I'm looking at a crf450l and have pondered the ktm450/500. Only thing that keeps me from getting the ktm is that parts prices are quite a bit more than honda. Everything has to be from the dealer for ktm it seems like. I can get an aftermarket top end rebuild for a honda no problem but I can't find any aftermarket top end kits for ktm 4 strokes. I know you should go with oem but an oem honda piston is ~$230 and ktm is like $400. The ktm is probably a better bike but it lacks the road-ability that the honda has. Honda has the rubber filled swingarm and more of a cush drive.
I also see lots of old xr650's still running around and I rarely ever see an early 2000's ktm on the road cause parts for them are scarce so I wonder what parts will be like in 10-15 year for the new ktm's when they change their engines every 2-3 years? I think the ktm will cost more per mile than the honda.
Hi guys your in the valley where I was born..a 'wardler '...for many years I trailed back in 80s ..90s on cumbrian fells...on xl250s. xl 250r. ..the 450 is the modern( if expensive) equivalent. .softer power..cheers from dave
So if your EXC do 30+ hour oil changes then how often have you done engine rebuilds? Checked valve clearance?
Great review, and as there are now an abundance of second hand 450l's.
But just an added point on the comparison between the KTM 450/500 on the oil change interval, is the KTM interval just set so low solely because its expected to be raced, What no one mentions, the KTM has double the size oil filter, more oil and a sump screen where as, the Honda has a smaller filter, less oil and just a sump plug.
Surely ridden the same way they must have identical service intervals but just not manufacture approved.
Great comparison, covered just about everything.
I can see the pros and cons of both bikes but I think a single cylinder 650 is maybe a better option, more of a better balance of performance and weight.
But at the end of the day it comes down to usage and how much money you have, one bike to do everything or a bike for every occasion.
One day the unicorn may appear but I will not hold my breath.
We can dream!
Great video guys. I own a WR250R and considering an "upgrade" to a CRF450L. It's so weird how the 450L is 25 hp in Europe, but 45 hp in USA. That's such a huge difference. As you say the 25 hp version is "electronically strangled". The Honda shop near me in Australia said they could do the power mod before delivery, so I think most people here in Australia will opt for the 45 hp version, for $250 extra. Do you think your review would be any different, if you had the 45 hp version, which is a lot closer to the KTM.
100% yes. I think I'd probably think the Honda was as close to perfect as I would ever expect to get for a current bike to suit my needs (except for those service intervals and a Seat Concepts seat!).
Thank you for an amazing and honest review, I’ve been on the fence between a CRF300L Rally, and the CRF450L for a while, and being used to big adventure tourers, and getting a small bore was a concern, but the low service intervals on the 450 was putting me off,. But as it is easy I’m moving on from that. So the search begins for a 450L, and advice on year. Do you offer a bundle for AS parts for the 450L
Great to hear! Sorry we don't currently have any bundle offers on the 450L.
Waiting for a WR450R or maybe the CRF450L Rally if the engine proves itself worthy for round the world travel.
450L vs a Tenere700.
I would be curious on that one.
As far as servicing, it depends totally on the amount of dust that the bike is in as far as engine oil changing and most of the time just a filter change will extend the amount of oil usage. After all, oil doesn't lose viscosity, it just gets dirty and needs to be cleaned and replaced when it is low. Fair interview on these two products. I'm in the U.S. and we have the CRF 450L that has more power and as the KTM they have more power over here as well but the Honda is wining more races on the flat track than the KTM is, so I would buy a Honda before the KTM.
No oil does need to be replaced. Go check out any oil analysis videos on youtube.
th-cam.com/video/8sIxaqyDfuk/w-d-xo.html
This is a video of CRF450l at a 1000 mile oil change. Some good info there. Wish there were more people trying out 1.5k - 3k mile change just to see what happens.
As for why to change oil, here are some, not all, of the reasons why: The clutch and other parts of the engine wear out if theres rough use (like slipping of the clutch). This introduces metal particles that wear on the engine. Also the oil itself does wear out. As the oil breaks down, they form acidic compounds in it, which is obviously not good for the engine. Thus the oil itself has alkaline additives in it to combat this process. The measure of amount of alkaline substance in it is the TBN number. I think you need a TBN number of >1. Most oils' TBN starts at around 5 - 15.
I love the CRF450L but I’d prefer to go riding with Greg...Dave smile buddy 🤗
You're not the first person to mention my lack of smiles in my life. I like to think that I'm doing a lot of smiling inside...!
Now that we have CRF450RL (in the US), KTM came out with 450 EXC-F, Yamaha with with 450F and Suzuki with RMX 450...competition is getting intense but its a good day for customers!
Wonderful
the lane at 3mins onward - where is this? northumberland area i presume - is this on tet or off? and if off could you point to a map ref: or location please?
I was looking at the KLR 650 as my next bike, but decided that it was just too big, too heavy. So I started looking at the CRF450L, but a typical 2019 (near new or new) 650 is 8k-9k and the typical 2019 450 is 9k-10k. Why is the 450 so much more?
Hello, Fantastic explanation!! thanks a lot. I'm planning a trip from Spain to Central Asia, perhaps 18.000 Km. I'm thinking in this bike or a 701....service is my only doubt to choose the honda.
Amazing scenery. Living in Southern California all I get is dry deep sand! Lol
Thanks for watching! Sand is fun at least 😂
@adventurespec how do you manage the ktm's servicing? Every how many hours/miles are you changing oil and filter? And have you got like a spare change of it in your bags?
I have the same question as I plan doing longer trips with my Husky 450. Oil change per day keeps the mechanic away?
He answers this starting at 53:00
Great video guys. thanks so much for your unbiased views.
Watched this twice. I'm really torn between the two camps of thought. The CRF450L would need the 44hp kit, and get rid of that small tank to suit me. And a cush drive sounds really nice on the KTM.
I guess it comes down to which dealer I like the best.
good review and comparison..still can't get round the nigh on 10k for the Honda.. could have a couple of 450 exc and a pocket full of petrol money
Very true. The Honda is not a cheap option.
I'm hearing they are now down to £8k in UK dealers...
Great video guys. A very comprehensive assessment indeed and it just reaffirms my opinion that the Honda is a legend in the making and a real game changer.
How often do you have to change oil on the CRF450l after the way you are riding the bike?
I know it says 600 miles, but that surely can be stretched?
I have had Honda my whole life a Husky couple Yamahas but I am a Honda person I'm going to buy one of the CRF 450L this January 2021 1 Motocross rider friend of mine tells me why don't you get the KTM 500 first of all I have a 92 Honda CR500 1983 XLR 600 so I'm not switching to KTM but that's just me Honda and Chevy trucks cannot change that
I bought the CRF for 6788,- £ new, can‘t resist for this price. Only thing i did not like is the seat. It is narrow and hard as a rock. So have to spend another 350,- for a Seat Concepts Comfort XL. I think it is also hard but a lot wider. Maybe there will be a Seat from you, so i could buy in the UK.😃
That technical bit I could destroy on my supermoto I've been through way worse and I have an swm 650r and if you want to compare it I'd beore than happy to come out for a ride and compare it
Please tell me where I can get the 450L can’t get hold of one for love nor money great vid guys
Very well put opinion on big bikes on the TET, I ride a 1200gs on the TET, and finished 2nd in the GS Trophy world championships, but agree with you completely. Its how I always describe it to people, there’s a sliding scale of bikes from trials bikes to big Adventure bikes, where do you want to be on that comes down to your choice and needs. Great video 😊
Hey.....how do you guys rate the 390 Adv against the CRF450L, given the former can be purchased direct in India for about £3k?
We have not ridden the KTM 390 ADV yet
That wide open and nothing left is the EU hopeless ECU..... I would never buy that bike without the new ECU.; mine has the aftermarket ECU and its amazing;
Here in the USA the CRF 450L goes up against the Husky FE 501 or KTM 500 EXC. The test KTM 450 EXC was 6 years old and a previous generation design. Much has changed since then. The KTM is 30 lbs lighter than the Honda. That is a lot. It also is considerably more powerful. If you mostly want to ride roads, the Honda is more civilized. If you like the technical stuff, want performance, or demand a responsive sporting motorcycle, there is no question which bike. Given the same maintenance intervals, both bikes will last the same. 500 hours out of a KTM 500 engine is expected. Some go much farther before needing any disassembly. As delivered the Honda has stalling issues and lags behind in power, especially at low revs commonly used in technical riding.
Was it the same tires mate.
I realize the displacement is the same but I would compare the 450L more with the ktm's 500. the exc is a true woods race bike, the 500 is a bit more "dual sport". I'm a ktm fanboy but having said that I have much more faith in honda engines.
So the KTM 500 EXC is a dual sport? No.
Please !
2.15 or 2.5 inch rim ? Why ?
Honda will always tell you to service it at a time line for max performance an longevity having said that you would get 250 Hr with min ware on the barrel i have a CRF 450 X & CRF 250 X and CRF 250 R lot of Hrs on my 1st 450 I also put 9 sets of rings & 5 pistons on my 1st CRF 450X so I had them apart a lot also the skirt on the piston has marking on it to see how much ware it has the CRF 450 L has a 3 ring piston so it should not ware as fast. in Oz the bike shop change the ECU I have ridden a CRF 450 L and it has as much power as my CRF 450x. PS its a Honda it will run for 20 years
TheFastphill how often would you change oil of cfr450l ? Manual says 1000km on road use?
@@NoobRoutzthe oil is not separate in the 450L it would depend on the clutch use for me lots of clutch more changes
what year is that 450exc? I have an 08 450exc and love it!
Its a 2013. I myself had a 530 from 2008, and loved that too..
Thanks for the really excellent discussion and quality video. It sounds to me that if you were on the American CRF450L, there would be no contest - the Honda would run away with the win. Right?
For me...100%
Nice Honda crf 450L and 450X
That was refreshing. Thank you for that. (and what about that apparently waterproof AS jacket ?)
AS Waterproof Trail Shells...some arrived in stock today...the rest arrive next week...
@@davejhlomax damn David! i've been waiting for AS come out with goretex shells for a year, and now i finally gave up and bought Klim and you come out with a product next week! do you have/plan goretex overpants or over-gloves?
@@EugeneYunak Sorry!
Really hope there will be a crf 450l rally version
You say that ktm is lowered, than there is no point in comparing geometry / steering / stability. By lowering a bike you totally change the geometry the manufacturer had in mind. So it will handle completely different.
True, but as we say in the film I noticed that the KTM immediately handled differently from a standard bike and we explained the modifications at length to ensure everyone understood exactly what we were reviewing.
Luckily, I have also regularly ridden enough new Huskys at the AdventureRiderCentre in Spain to know that the standard bikes are even twitchier than Gregs, as he has done everything he can to 'Adventurise' and calm his down.
Not necessarily. If you lower a bike the proper way both parts (front and back) are included and the geometry will remain.