My old CRM250 was a lot better up technical hills like that 1st one than my mate's 520 EXC. He was always wheelieing off to the side, but i could just chug up in 1st with no clutch needed.
Thanks fellas, That was a superb and in depth view of the two bikes and their individual merits...and there in lies the ultimate conundrum. Individual: it's all about our ( as riders ) individual needs, wants and the acceptable floors of our chosen steed. On a side note it was great to see Jasper Carrott looking so well 😍👍
the lane at 3mins onward - where is this? northumberland area i presume - is this on tet or off? and if off could you point to a map ref: or location please?
Brilliant comparison of the two bikes. I’ve been lucky enough to have a 450L for a year or so now and absolutely love it for the very reasons you gave. Adequate on road, light and a great trail bike. Thanks for the vid! Awesome!
You buy a £9600 CRF 450F but get the same 25HP as a CRF250L .... What the heck ? Thanks for posting the video... brilliant banter. Good luck with your young family John ... being a dad is amazing.
I have had Honda my whole life a Husky couple Yamahas but I am a Honda person I'm going to buy one of the CRF 450L this January 2021 1 Motocross rider friend of mine tells me why don't you get the KTM 500 first of all I have a 92 Honda CR500 1983 XLR 600 so I'm not switching to KTM but that's just me Honda and Chevy trucks cannot change that
They are both a massive fail. From 40 years of adventure riding all over the world and in Australia where I am based. These are the problems: 1. The seats are far too high. An average height person has to be able to put both feet flat on the ground when stationary. 2. They both have miserable excuses for seats. You spend 80% of your time sitting down in adventure riding. 3. Their fuel tanks are far too small. You need a minimum of 20ltr capacity. Both these bikes drink the fuel. You need a range of 500km for an adv biike. 4. The vibration, specially from the KTM, would drive you nuts. Don't they balance these engines? 5. They develop their maximum power far too high in the rev range. You need to be able to cruise all day at 100kph and only be half the way up the rev range. 6. They are very expensive. The KTM here is near $15k. You would pay have of that for a fully kitted 800GS on the used market. In Summay, these are just motocross/enduro bikes with lights. Whats my favourite adv bike? Go light and spend $6k on a Yamaha XT250 and up the gearing. Stone reliable, light weight and a half decent seat. I rode one from Stockholm to Sydney and it never missed a beat. The only thing I replaced was the chain. A mate came with me on an Africa Twin. If it fell over it took two people to lift it up. Thats the test.
The honda is made to be a trail bike, not an adventure bike. People will adventure this bike and good for them. Don't think honda had you in their sights when developing this bike.
You're making a great point. b Besides the obvious suspects "reliability" and "sufficient luggage capacity", highway speed comfort and the ability to get through gnarly situations like rocky / icy mountain passes alike needs to be optimized. GS's are too heavy for the latter but small displacement bikes don't have to poor on road. The WR250R has a smooth engine and strong subfrane but is tall. The XT isn't as capable offroad as either that or these 450s but I bet it beats the heck out of a GS when you're trying to get across the Himalayas, not forget the fuel economy.
@adventurespec how do you manage the ktm's servicing? Every how many hours/miles are you changing oil and filter? And have you got like a spare change of it in your bags?
Thank you for an amazing and honest review, I’ve been on the fence between a CRF300L Rally, and the CRF450L for a while, and being used to big adventure tourers, and getting a small bore was a concern, but the low service intervals on the 450 was putting me off,. But as it is easy I’m moving on from that. So the search begins for a 450L, and advice on year. Do you offer a bundle for AS parts for the 450L
I’ve done thousands of km on an EXC450 in Portugal. It certainly isn’t twitchy! The only drawback with the bike is the dealers are painful to engage with and the bikes are quite expensive. Even for “mildly” talented trail riders the EXC is a great choice. Stump pulling torque and brilliant engineering. I can’t think of a reason to buy the Honda. (Though I’m curious that the Honda may be better on the road)
Hi Guys Thanks for videoing your trip. As we all know a great rider can ride anything us average Joes struggle, it’s what you can afford to get out there & have a go. Practice practice & having a go is the secret, anyhow go the Honda for me as it’s cheaper so I can spend more money on Fuel. Thanks from a Australian
I love the ending, "Choice is a good thing". I love how honda came out with a crf dual sport. Even though KTM seems to have been the leader of aggressive dual sports I like to think that the crf450l is a very good bike in it's own right.
The problem with European emissions are they super suck. You have to uncork all of these bikes to get the full potential power that they are suppose to have. Only then can you do a true review. Period
Back in the day round the world trips were done on XR and XT500's. Then the adventure bike bug bit and the bikes just got bigger and bigger. Now manufacturers are going back to smaller displacement bikes. Glad I'm still riding an old Klr650 and an XR650R.
This has been by far the best review (IMO) of the CRF450l that I’ve seen so far. I hadn’t realized the UK / EU version makes only 25HP. Sorry for you guys. As a Yank with plenty of wide open spaces here in the US, the Honda is a bike I’m seriously considering for my next new dual sport ride. Thanks for the in-depth discussion.
Super interesting, many thanks for sharing! Really appreciated the thoughts on the noise -- agree with your philosophy on trying to be less hooligan and as quiet as possible on the trails.
I was looking at the KLR 650 as my next bike, but decided that it was just too big, too heavy. So I started looking at the CRF450L, but a typical 2019 (near new or new) 650 is 8k-9k and the typical 2019 450 is 9k-10k. Why is the 450 so much more?
Great review, and as there are now an abundance of second hand 450l's. But just an added point on the comparison between the KTM 450/500 on the oil change interval, is the KTM interval just set so low solely because its expected to be raced, What no one mentions, the KTM has double the size oil filter, more oil and a sump screen where as, the Honda has a smaller filter, less oil and just a sump plug. Surely ridden the same way they must have identical service intervals but just not manufacture approved.
Enjoyed watching that, thanks for taking the time to make the vid! Hopefully once Honda have more data on how the engine wears with age, they'll increase the oil change intervals. Both seem like great bikes 👍
Great comparison, thank you very much. Greg, it would really nice to have this comparison again, but this time with your new AJP PR7 against Mark Lewis's Husqvarna 701 Enduro. I would love to see that.
Excellent balanced discussion. Very informative. Both are really great bikes for different reasons. You make excellent points about why each bike would be a good fit for different types of riders.
Great video guys, and although it was done in 2019 I think it is still relevant today. The one thing that is different, is that up until a few months ago, dealers in the UK were selling them for £8600, which included the full power pack and full Honda warranty. I wanted a Husky/KTM, but the dealer wasn't particularly friendly or helpful, so went to my local Honda dealer and bought the CRF450L instead. I must say, I am very happy with it, and it does not disappoint especially with the full power ECU. I might spend the money I saved on purchase to get a Vortex and Yoshi pipe, as that's what most seem to say is the best upgrade. But I'll reserve judgement until Ive ridden it a bit more. Great video though, many thanks.
Great comparison. Thanks much. As a 250L owner, I would highly recommend the Dobeck Performance Electronic Jetting Controller to others. It completely brings the bike to life and is well worth every penny. I resisted buying it for quite a few years because I just wasn't sure it would make that much difference for the price, but it's absolutely night and day. It goes from lugging in the low end to spinning the rear wheel with ease. Haven't test ridden the new 450L yet, but looking forward to doing so. Thanks again for bringing us along on this adventure!!
100% Yes. The Dobreck EJK is the third thing I would buy for a CRF250l if I bought another bike (we bought a new 2103 model when they first arrived). It transforms its behaviour without making it loud or intrusive. The first thing would be a bashplate, the second handguards...
@@adventurespec I noticed there was little or no mentioned about the throttle response of the CRF, which I've heard is on/off, not smooth, which I have found similar to my CRF Rally. Does the Dobreck smooth out the throttle mapping and response? I put a Throttle Tamer on my Rally and while it helps, it certainly doesn't eliminate the on/off response. Recently road a KTM 500 and it was so much smoother, albeit stronger.
That technical bit I could destroy on my supermoto I've been through way worse and I have an swm 650r and if you want to compare it I'd beore than happy to come out for a ride and compare it
I agree with all comments regarding the fair and honest opinion..seems like a thorough review and appreciate the honesty in comparing YOUR personal bike and your attachment to it to the Honda. There is always a better bike out there, but none of them are cheaper than the one you own right now...just keep riding and thanks again.
Loved this review, thanks chaps… I’m at a point where my riding on/off road has changed, but still doing the long adventure trips is key, and selling my Africa Twin and getting the CRF450L has been on the cards, and THIS video has helped confirm I’m about to make the right decision, so THANKS
Honda will always tell you to service it at a time line for max performance an longevity having said that you would get 250 Hr with min ware on the barrel i have a CRF 450 X & CRF 250 X and CRF 250 R lot of Hrs on my 1st 450 I also put 9 sets of rings & 5 pistons on my 1st CRF 450X so I had them apart a lot also the skirt on the piston has marking on it to see how much ware it has the CRF 450 L has a 3 ring piston so it should not ware as fast. in Oz the bike shop change the ECU I have ridden a CRF 450 L and it has as much power as my CRF 450x. PS its a Honda it will run for 20 years
You say that ktm is lowered, than there is no point in comparing geometry / steering / stability. By lowering a bike you totally change the geometry the manufacturer had in mind. So it will handle completely different.
True, but as we say in the film I noticed that the KTM immediately handled differently from a standard bike and we explained the modifications at length to ensure everyone understood exactly what we were reviewing. Luckily, I have also regularly ridden enough new Huskys at the AdventureRiderCentre in Spain to know that the standard bikes are even twitchier than Gregs, as he has done everything he can to 'Adventurise' and calm his down.
thank you for such an indepth review. maybe 2 more questions - to what older model Honda´s would you compare crf450l to and which bikes would you, from KTM and from Honda, recommend for daily commute, longer weekend trips and trails together?
Thanks for the video guys I’m right in that market of light adventure biking so very interesting to hear. I hadn’t thought about the fact that these enduro bikes (exc for example) wear due to lack of cushioning on the rear wheel / transmission... so that’s definitely a recommended mod to make if using for travel... I think the crf uncorked with some of your travel add ons would be a fantastic choice of a bike for a long adv trip. My previous bikes have been 690 and a 701 brutally capable for fast track stuff, but honestly for an off road biased trip such as the TET I’d probably be even happier with a lighter more agile 450. 20kg in the trails does make a difference
I bought the CRF for 6788,- £ new, can‘t resist for this price. Only thing i did not like is the seat. It is narrow and hard as a rock. So have to spend another 350,- for a Seat Concepts Comfort XL. I think it is also hard but a lot wider. Maybe there will be a Seat from you, so i could buy in the UK.😃
I'm a bit later here, but man this is a good Video! Two Moto-Journalists calmly talking about Bikes for more than 10 minutes. One seemingly actually listening to the other. And both consider their own subjectivity and explain their background. 🙏That's strong, I thing
I was leaning 450 or 500 EXC and ended up pulling the trigger on a 450L. I am waiting on the new race ECU and then I will install the FMF pipe and header and start ripping around on this machine. So pumped!
Now that we have CRF450RL (in the US), KTM came out with 450 EXC-F, Yamaha with with 450F and Suzuki with RMX 450...competition is getting intense but its a good day for customers!
Great video guys. I own a WR250R and considering an "upgrade" to a CRF450L. It's so weird how the 450L is 25 hp in Europe, but 45 hp in USA. That's such a huge difference. As you say the 25 hp version is "electronically strangled". The Honda shop near me in Australia said they could do the power mod before delivery, so I think most people here in Australia will opt for the 45 hp version, for $250 extra. Do you think your review would be any different, if you had the 45 hp version, which is a lot closer to the KTM.
100% yes. I think I'd probably think the Honda was as close to perfect as I would ever expect to get for a current bike to suit my needs (except for those service intervals and a Seat Concepts seat!).
Great conversation. Thank you. I would like to add that 2017 and newer EXCFs (250, 350, or the 500) are about 40-45 lb. (20 kg) lighter than the 450L in fully fueled and stock condition. Having said that the EXCFs don't have a subframe so probably much less suitable for adventuring. I also would like to add a comment about the KTM service intervals. I don't race my 2017 250 EXCF, it has done almost 10 000 km and 210 hours. I've checked the valves twice and they are mint. I change the oil about every 1000 km. In my experience so far, the KTM service intervals are race intervals. I am considering adding the 450L as a lightweight adventure bike.
As far as servicing, it depends totally on the amount of dust that the bike is in as far as engine oil changing and most of the time just a filter change will extend the amount of oil usage. After all, oil doesn't lose viscosity, it just gets dirty and needs to be cleaned and replaced when it is low. Fair interview on these two products. I'm in the U.S. and we have the CRF 450L that has more power and as the KTM they have more power over here as well but the Honda is wining more races on the flat track than the KTM is, so I would buy a Honda before the KTM.
No oil does need to be replaced. Go check out any oil analysis videos on youtube. th-cam.com/video/8sIxaqyDfuk/w-d-xo.html This is a video of CRF450l at a 1000 mile oil change. Some good info there. Wish there were more people trying out 1.5k - 3k mile change just to see what happens. As for why to change oil, here are some, not all, of the reasons why: The clutch and other parts of the engine wear out if theres rough use (like slipping of the clutch). This introduces metal particles that wear on the engine. Also the oil itself does wear out. As the oil breaks down, they form acidic compounds in it, which is obviously not good for the engine. Thus the oil itself has alkaline additives in it to combat this process. The measure of amount of alkaline substance in it is the TBN number. I think you need a TBN number of >1. Most oils' TBN starts at around 5 - 15.
The Honda has a ton of crap you do not need, that you can take off and get the weight down. I'm talking 25 LBs of junk. That is free performance. It is far superior to the Husky FE350S which is what I had. Way more motor, stock suspension is by far better. I do not dump money into my bikes. I ride them stock and just keep them in perfect condition, with fresh tires, chhains and sprockets and other wearing items. That being said, I replaced the ECU $700 US. This has to be done. The bike ran like crap stock. It ran very hot and stalled out easier than any boke I ever had. The fan has not ran since thenew ECU and I ran a 60 mile, tight technical songle track recently and the bike is very good. I also ride a KTM 250SX 2 stroke and think the Honda is definitely slower but not much. For ADV touring as long as there is no extended road sections this bike is very good.
Superb video, very comprehensive and informative. All the trademark editing splendour from Greg coupled with some very refreshing honesty made this a great watch. Given the passions that get stirred by the CRF vs KTM debate, I'd anticipate some vigorous 'opinion' to result. Personally, I think there's far more important things to get worked up about. Horses for courses, vote with your wallet/credit card and be happy with your choice and have fun. Oh, and I need Noel to build me a cabin!
I'm looking at a crf450l and have pondered the ktm450/500. Only thing that keeps me from getting the ktm is that parts prices are quite a bit more than honda. Everything has to be from the dealer for ktm it seems like. I can get an aftermarket top end rebuild for a honda no problem but I can't find any aftermarket top end kits for ktm 4 strokes. I know you should go with oem but an oem honda piston is ~$230 and ktm is like $400. The ktm is probably a better bike but it lacks the road-ability that the honda has. Honda has the rubber filled swingarm and more of a cush drive. I also see lots of old xr650's still running around and I rarely ever see an early 2000's ktm on the road cause parts for them are scarce so I wonder what parts will be like in 10-15 year for the new ktm's when they change their engines every 2-3 years? I think the ktm will cost more per mile than the honda.
So where does the mighty DRZ-400S sit (set up similarly as these 2 steeds - air box mod and jetted - stock pipe - stock fuel tank but similar range to these two tested - Magadans and minimal rack - small windscreen - hand guards, bash plate - lighter weight battery - low seat concepts saddle) maybe 8-10kg's heavier than these 2 all in - consider greater road distances - think western US - posted road speed limits of 75 mph and 150-200 miles to the next long trail section - I have 14,000 miles on my DRZ - do all my own meticulous maintenance - should I spend the $ to get the Honda CRF450L (US version), look at something else entirely or ride the DRZ until it dies ... I'm short - 173cm - ride alone most of the time and have intermediate + off road skill - as an example I would attempt the H trail in the video solo without hesitation on the DRZ - came from a DR650 and found it restricted my adventurous nature off road - kept getting in to trouble riding alone with the weight - any opinion appreciated given Dave's DRZ experience - great video Greg - in for a podcast if it happens ...
This is a simple question to answer. If the DRZ is in good condition and reliable then stick with it. I think that the CRF450l is very much a high-tech successor to the DRZ. It does everything the DRZ does, but just a little better (except the service intervals!). You might say that the DRZ would sit really well between the CRF450l and CRF250l. If you really have to have more fuel economy or a more relaxed top speed or better suspension or a quieter ride then yes, the CRF will do all of that...but, the DRZ is a great trail bike. It's superbly reliable, can have a kick start and has a far better service interval. Truthfully, if I could get a new DRZ 'E' model and sort the suspension vs. a CRF450l...it'd be a tough decision that'd keep me awake at night. When the time comes for the DRZ to hit the bike graveyard in the sky I think you'd feel right at home on the CRF, but for me I'd stick with what you have right now.
Excellent video gents. Not in the market for either but a lot of the points you raise are relevant for anyone considering what bike to buy. Am building an ‘adventurised’ DRZ400 at the moment as it suits what I want to do and will be heading out on the UK and Europe TET later in the year. Keep up the good work :)
Honest real world review but do not see where the comparison between these bikes is, the KTM is to quote KTM “ready to race” where as the Honda has a much more relaxed geometry a trail bike in the truest sense. So for me even though both bikes look similar they from very different ends of the spectrum. I don’t think you could even compare the Honda to the 690/701 the power difference is huge whereas the weight difference is similar to the two bikes here in standard trim. I think it’s safe to say Honda once again has produced another good motorcycle but it will still come down to the elephant in the room why oh why did they strangle the power from this bike with the 40 bhp this would be a completely different ball game
Peter, if they wanted to sell the CRF450l in the EU as fully road legal bike they had to ensure emissions and noise levels met the required EU regulations. Luckily a few Honda parts and an hours work and you have a full factory 45hp version...
@@gnarlybadger690 1. Honda sell the two parts you need to change the spec of the bike from their parts catalogue. and the part numbers are readily available ( I think someone posted them on our last CRF TH-cam review when I bought the bike back from Africa). It's just that running the bike in this trim will theorectically make it fail EU 'MOT' tests. 2. The KTM/Husky bikes are not fully road legal bikes when they are in the trim that you consider 'normal'. When dealers get them they come with lights, indicators, reflectors etc. and a far softer/lower power engine map, this is their true 'Road Legal' state. But, dealers remap them and strip off all the EU regulated bits before you buy a bike from them that actually doesn't pass EU road regulations, but as the UK doesn't test power, noise or emissions during a motorcycle MOT in the UK we can 'get away' with it. At this point the KTM you probably ride is in a non-road legal 'Enduro/Race off-road' trim, which has a far less strict EU noise/emissions requirement. As an example, in Spain you have to remap each time you 'MOT' so that the bike is put back into road trim if you want to be strictly legal. To make a like-for-like comparision you'd either have to get your KTM dealer to provide a KTM450 with it's original 'soft' road map or remap the CRF to its unrestricted US form. The interesting point about this from my perspective is the reason for this difference. KTM sell their bikes as 'ready to race'...but, they can also be road legal if you want (and they have to be for Enduro use). Whereas Honda say that the CRF is a road legal bike and it can be used off-road if you want. Ironically this captures the difference between the bikes brilliantly is reflected in the underlying theme of the entire review above!
@@adventurespec wow thanks for the info brought my KTM new from an official KTM dealership didn't have anything like indicators or the switch gear for them. Really surprising about the Honda puts it in a different light and shows how little I know about it, wonder how much the parts will cost added on to the £9500 price tag. Knowing that Honda has obviously brought this bike into the UK covering the whole European market rather than country is understandable, I knew we were leaving the EU for a reason 😁 have you thought about informing the Prime minister maybe she could use it as part of her Brexit strategy 🤣🤣🤣
Fantastic review and discussion guys. Certainly puts the CRF450L on the list of bikes to consider. You should of mentioned that the CRF450L only needs 1.1L of oil (+filter), which is not too expensive for the type of adventure trail riding you guys do.
Great video, you've addressed lots of my niggles about the CRF as a potential weekend-trailbike-that's-good-for-the-TET-too. I'd love to see a follow-up with an uncorked bike though.
So, the Honda is 10 kg heavier than the 450 KTM, and we all agree weight doesn't matter. The KTM 690 is 20 kg heavier (much of which is a bigger tank making the wet weight higher, more like 10 kg once you fit a long range tank to the Honda) than the Honda, and we can all agree that weight is very important... I actually think they're all tanks, I ride a 200exc
A lot of the "weight" people feel is in the engine size and frame geometry. The XR650R is lighter than a DRZ400 but everyone calls the 650 the big red pig and people say it tires them out on single track. And there definitely is such a thing as too much off idle torque lunging a bike forward that will make it feel heavier because it's more difficult to place, turn and control.
Very well put opinion on big bikes on the TET, I ride a 1200gs on the TET, and finished 2nd in the GS Trophy world championships, but agree with you completely. Its how I always describe it to people, there’s a sliding scale of bikes from trials bikes to big Adventure bikes, where do you want to be on that comes down to your choice and needs. Great video 😊
Ide love a lighter adventure bike over my xt660z... But I can get up most hills and manage most green lane... I have massive fuel range and 6k miles between service intervals... Its hard to give it up!
Many thanks for the vid, yes I did stick with it>-) Fair and honest assessment. very good point about the crf service interval and the hp difference. I hadn't thought about that. puts a different perspective on the crf now. many thanks for taking the time. cheers.
I was torn between a Husky, KTM and the 450L, having decided to change my 250L. After thinking about what I wanted from the bike, I went with the 450L and have no regrets. You certainly wouldn’t think it only has 25BHP, for my purpose it doesn’t need anymore. As for price, plenty of dealers willing to do deals, I paid less for the 450L than I would have for the KTM/Husky.
You paid less because it's not the same quality, don't get me wrong a Honda is a honda, good solid platform, but the ktm, husky is top notch, just sayin, take care, and ride safe....
I guess it depends what you mean by the word ‘quality’. For me, Honda’s build quality and reliability are second to none. Hence why they offer a 2 year warranty, KTM/Husky offer 30 days or 6 months?). Horses for courses, if I wanted an MX track bike, then I would have chosen a KTM/Husky, but as I wanted a Dual Sports, I chose the Honda. If we all liked the same thing, the world would be a boring place.
Nick Hants I’m with you on this. The honda is a more modern platform than the venerable drz. I don’t need the super high performance of the euro bikes. It’s all in what you want/need from the bikes.
Great video guys. A very comprehensive assessment indeed and it just reaffirms my opinion that the Honda is a legend in the making and a real game changer.
@@mcriser First of all you loose insurance coverage because you changed the power. So every accident you cause is on you. -Driving/riding without operating license is ~50€ -Excessive noise ~10€ -Exceeding of emissions ~60€ And the killer is driving without insurance. Which, depending on the case can be up to 180 days wage fine or up to 6 months in prison. Of course this is the worst that could happen, but it's not unheard of... Oh and since you will exceed the noise limits it's quite likely that they will have your bike towed. These are the rules for Germany mind you
@@mcriser Oh and 1 point on your license for the fine exceeding 60€ plus op to 6 points on your license for riding without insurance. @8 points you loose your license for at least 6 months and have to take a special test (Medical Psychological exam, which is quite hard to pass) in order for you to reapply to get a new license. By the way getting a license in Germany takes a couple of months and costs around 2000-2500€
With the US spec ECU (45hp) if you're fairly fit (it is 10kg heavier than the KTM in race trim) then it'd be great for a few Enduros a year. I don't think you'd win against a similar level of rider to yourself on a KTM450, but on the ride home you'd be laughing! For the rest of your time on the local trails or out for longer trail trips it'd be great. I'd say test ride one first if you can, but my gut feeling would be that as an occasional racer it'd be a good swap.
I love the idea of testing it against the CB500x, here’s a plan: TET ride CRF450 310gs (Rally Raid) CB500 (Rally Raid) KTM790 Adventure R Yamaha Tenere 700 KTM 1090 Adventure R BMW 1200gs With good riders on, particularly on the big stuff, to see what they are really capable of against one another. Now that would be an epic test 😎
Great vid. One thing I could say is you should really strive to keep at least one foot on a peg at all times. I know it can be tough in a really rocky segment like this, but if you're quick you can switch back and forth. This will give you so much more control over the bike. When you have both feet off, you will not have much control over the bike anymore, and will be at the mercy of the track.
Great discussion. Thanks guys.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video gents 😊
Glad you enjoyed it
Amazing review
Thank you!
My old CRM250 was a lot better up technical hills like that 1st one than my mate's 520 EXC. He was always wheelieing off to the side, but i could just chug up in 1st with no clutch needed.
450L vs a Tenere700.
I would be curious on that one.
Amazing scenery. Living in Southern California all I get is dry deep sand! Lol
Thanks for watching! Sand is fun at least 😂
Thanks fellas,
That was a superb and in depth view of the two bikes and their individual merits...and there in lies the ultimate conundrum.
Individual: it's all about our ( as riders ) individual needs, wants and the acceptable floors of our chosen steed.
On a side note it was great to see Jasper Carrott looking so well 😍👍
Thanks for watching!
Please !
2.15 or 2.5 inch rim ? Why ?
the lane at 3mins onward - where is this? northumberland area i presume - is this on tet or off? and if off could you point to a map ref: or location please?
Brilliant comparison of the two bikes. I’ve been lucky enough to have a 450L for a year or so now and absolutely love it for the very reasons you gave. Adequate on road, light and a great trail bike. Thanks for the vid! Awesome!
Great to hear!
This was fantastic, quickest hour I've had in a long time, felt like I was there with you's, great format :)
Great talk, really enjoyed it.
I really likes the way how honest you guys were.
You buy a £9600 CRF 450F but get the same 25HP as a CRF250L .... What the heck ?
Thanks for posting the video... brilliant banter. Good luck with your young family John ... being a dad is amazing.
I have had Honda my whole life a Husky couple Yamahas but I am a Honda person I'm going to buy one of the CRF 450L this January 2021 1 Motocross rider friend of mine tells me why don't you get the KTM 500 first of all I have a 92 Honda CR500 1983 XLR 600 so I'm not switching to KTM but that's just me Honda and Chevy trucks cannot change that
They are both a massive fail. From 40 years of adventure riding all over the world and in Australia where I am based. These are the problems:
1. The seats are far too high. An average height person has to be able to put both feet flat on the ground when stationary.
2. They both have miserable excuses for seats. You spend 80% of your time sitting down in adventure riding.
3. Their fuel tanks are far too small. You need a minimum of 20ltr capacity. Both these bikes drink the fuel. You need a range of 500km for an adv biike.
4. The vibration, specially from the KTM, would drive you nuts. Don't they balance these engines?
5. They develop their maximum power far too high in the rev range. You need to be able to cruise all day at 100kph and only be half the way up the rev range.
6. They are very expensive. The KTM here is near $15k. You would pay have of that for a fully kitted 800GS on the used market.
In Summay, these are just motocross/enduro bikes with lights.
Whats my favourite adv bike? Go light and spend $6k on a Yamaha XT250 and up the gearing. Stone reliable, light weight and a half decent seat. I rode one from Stockholm to Sydney and it never missed a beat. The only thing I replaced was the chain. A mate came with me on an Africa Twin. If it fell over it took two people to lift it up. Thats the test.
The honda is made to be a trail bike, not an adventure bike. People will adventure this bike and good for them. Don't think honda had you in their sights when developing this bike.
You're making a great point. b
Besides the obvious suspects "reliability" and "sufficient luggage capacity", highway speed comfort and the ability to get through gnarly situations like rocky / icy mountain passes alike needs to be optimized. GS's are too heavy for the latter but small displacement bikes don't have to poor on road. The WR250R has a smooth engine and strong subfrane but is tall. The XT isn't as capable offroad as either that or these 450s but I bet it beats the heck out of a GS when you're trying to get across the Himalayas, not forget the fuel economy.
Wonderful
You need to stand up on the technical
This was brilliant stuff gents! It is really helpful in many ways.
@adventurespec how do you manage the ktm's servicing? Every how many hours/miles are you changing oil and filter? And have you got like a spare change of it in your bags?
I have the same question as I plan doing longer trips with my Husky 450. Oil change per day keeps the mechanic away?
He answers this starting at 53:00
Hey.....how do you guys rate the 390 Adv against the CRF450L, given the former can be purchased direct in India for about £3k?
We have not ridden the KTM 390 ADV yet
Awesome no bullshit comparison. The honesty is very refreshing!
Thank you for an amazing and honest review, I’ve been on the fence between a CRF300L Rally, and the CRF450L for a while, and being used to big adventure tourers, and getting a small bore was a concern, but the low service intervals on the 450 was putting me off,. But as it is easy I’m moving on from that. So the search begins for a 450L, and advice on year. Do you offer a bundle for AS parts for the 450L
Great to hear! Sorry we don't currently have any bundle offers on the 450L.
I’ve done thousands of km on an EXC450 in Portugal. It certainly isn’t twitchy!
The only drawback with the bike is the dealers are painful to engage with and the bikes are quite expensive.
Even for “mildly” talented trail riders the EXC is a great choice. Stump pulling torque and brilliant engineering.
I can’t think of a reason to buy the Honda. (Though I’m curious that the Honda may be better on the road)
Interesting, I find my EXC 450 a real chore for longer duration road work. Stops me riding it further afield and sticks me to local trails.
The Rekluse auto clutch combined with the traction control of the Vortex ECU and the CRF450RL will walk right up those technical sections 👍😊
Hi Guys
Thanks for videoing your trip.
As we all know a great rider can ride anything us average Joes struggle, it’s what you can afford to get out there & have a go.
Practice practice & having a go is the secret, anyhow go the Honda for me as it’s cheaper so I can spend more money on Fuel.
Thanks from a Australian
awesome video, amazing editing, great drone shots, and bikes.... love it!
I love the ending, "Choice is a good thing". I love how honda came out with a crf dual sport. Even though KTM seems to have been the leader of aggressive dual sports I like to think that the crf450l is a very good bike in it's own right.
Definitely! Thanks for watching
Please tell me where I can get the 450L can’t get hold of one for love nor money great vid guys
The problem with European emissions are they super suck. You have to uncork all of these bikes to get the full potential power that they are suppose to have. Only then can you do a true review. Period
Back in the day round the world trips were done on XR and XT500's. Then the adventure bike bug bit and the bikes just got bigger and bigger. Now manufacturers are going back to smaller displacement bikes. Glad I'm still riding an old Klr650 and an XR650R.
This has been by far the best review (IMO) of the CRF450l that I’ve seen so far. I hadn’t realized the UK / EU version makes only 25HP. Sorry for you guys. As a Yank with plenty of wide open spaces here in the US, the Honda is a bike I’m seriously considering for my next new dual sport ride. Thanks for the in-depth discussion.
Super interesting, many thanks for sharing!
Really appreciated the thoughts on the noise -- agree with your philosophy on trying to be less hooligan and as quiet as possible on the trails.
Ktm new piston every 5000 km Honda 20 000 km
I was looking at the KLR 650 as my next bike, but decided that it was just too big, too heavy. So I started looking at the CRF450L, but a typical 2019 (near new or new) 650 is 8k-9k and the typical 2019 450 is 9k-10k. Why is the 450 so much more?
Great review, and as there are now an abundance of second hand 450l's.
But just an added point on the comparison between the KTM 450/500 on the oil change interval, is the KTM interval just set so low solely because its expected to be raced, What no one mentions, the KTM has double the size oil filter, more oil and a sump screen where as, the Honda has a smaller filter, less oil and just a sump plug.
Surely ridden the same way they must have identical service intervals but just not manufacture approved.
Enjoyed watching that, thanks for taking the time to make the vid! Hopefully once Honda have more data on how the engine wears with age, they'll increase the oil change intervals. Both seem like great bikes 👍
Amen to that!
Very well thoughtout and presented , i loved the long format , id love an adventure spec podcast.
You're not the only one to ask about that...standby!
Great video guys! Tons of info. So much variety these days it's crazy!
Great comparison, thank you very much. Greg, it would really nice to have this comparison again, but this time with your new AJP PR7 against Mark Lewis's Husqvarna 701 Enduro. I would love to see that.
Thanks. We will do a PR7 review as soon as we can
Excellent balanced discussion. Very informative. Both are really great bikes for different reasons. You make excellent points about why each bike would be a good fit for different types of riders.
Great video guys. thanks so much for your unbiased views.
Was it the same tires mate.
If the honda is 71db and the ktm is 94db then the KTM is over 4 times louder than the Honda.
Crazy isn't it...
Great video guys, and although it was done in 2019 I think it is still relevant today. The one thing that is different, is that up until a few months ago, dealers in the UK were selling them for £8600, which included the full power pack and full Honda warranty. I wanted a Husky/KTM, but the dealer wasn't particularly friendly or helpful, so went to my local Honda dealer and bought the CRF450L instead. I must say, I am very happy with it, and it does not disappoint especially with the full power ECU. I might spend the money I saved on purchase to get a Vortex and Yoshi pipe, as that's what most seem to say is the best upgrade. But I'll reserve judgement until Ive ridden it a bit more. Great video though, many thanks.
Great comparison. Thanks much. As a 250L owner, I would highly recommend the Dobeck Performance Electronic Jetting Controller to others. It completely brings the bike to life and is well worth every penny. I resisted buying it for quite a few years because I just wasn't sure it would make that much difference for the price, but it's absolutely night and day. It goes from lugging in the low end to spinning the rear wheel with ease. Haven't test ridden the new 450L yet, but looking forward to doing so. Thanks again for bringing us along on this adventure!!
100% Yes. The Dobreck EJK is the third thing I would buy for a CRF250l if I bought another bike (we bought a new 2103 model when they first arrived). It transforms its behaviour without making it loud or intrusive.
The first thing would be a bashplate, the second handguards...
@@adventurespec I noticed there was little or no mentioned about the throttle response of the CRF, which I've heard is on/off, not smooth, which I have found similar to my CRF Rally. Does the Dobreck smooth out the throttle mapping and response? I put a Throttle Tamer on my Rally and while it helps, it certainly doesn't eliminate the on/off response. Recently road a KTM 500 and it was so much smoother, albeit stronger.
That's a great conversation to have sat and listened to. Very interesting view points and observations.
That technical bit I could destroy on my supermoto I've been through way worse and I have an swm 650r and if you want to compare it I'd beore than happy to come out for a ride and compare it
I agree with all comments regarding the fair and honest opinion..seems like a thorough review and appreciate the honesty in comparing YOUR personal bike and your attachment to it to the Honda. There is always a better bike out there, but none of them are cheaper than the one you own right now...just keep riding and thanks again.
“None of them are cheaper than the bike you own right now.”
Words of financial wisdom.
Loved this review, thanks chaps… I’m at a point where my riding on/off road has changed, but still doing the long adventure trips is key, and selling my Africa Twin and getting the CRF450L has been on the cards, and THIS video has helped confirm I’m about to make the right decision, so THANKS
Honda will always tell you to service it at a time line for max performance an longevity having said that you would get 250 Hr with min ware on the barrel i have a CRF 450 X & CRF 250 X and CRF 250 R lot of Hrs on my 1st 450 I also put 9 sets of rings & 5 pistons on my 1st CRF 450X so I had them apart a lot also the skirt on the piston has marking on it to see how much ware it has the CRF 450 L has a 3 ring piston so it should not ware as fast. in Oz the bike shop change the ECU I have ridden a CRF 450 L and it has as much power as my CRF 450x. PS its a Honda it will run for 20 years
TheFastphill how often would you change oil of cfr450l ? Manual says 1000km on road use?
@@NoobRoutzthe oil is not separate in the 450L it would depend on the clutch use for me lots of clutch more changes
You say that ktm is lowered, than there is no point in comparing geometry / steering / stability. By lowering a bike you totally change the geometry the manufacturer had in mind. So it will handle completely different.
True, but as we say in the film I noticed that the KTM immediately handled differently from a standard bike and we explained the modifications at length to ensure everyone understood exactly what we were reviewing.
Luckily, I have also regularly ridden enough new Huskys at the AdventureRiderCentre in Spain to know that the standard bikes are even twitchier than Gregs, as he has done everything he can to 'Adventurise' and calm his down.
Not necessarily. If you lower a bike the proper way both parts (front and back) are included and the geometry will remain.
I have only ridden in the US Southwest, I would love to do that trail one day soon.
thank you for such an indepth review. maybe 2 more questions - to what older model Honda´s would you compare crf450l to and which bikes would you, from KTM and from Honda, recommend for daily commute, longer weekend trips and trails together?
But his Husqvarna is 6 years older.
Thanks for the video guys I’m right in that market of light adventure biking so very interesting to hear. I hadn’t thought about the fact that these enduro bikes (exc for example) wear due to lack of cushioning on the rear wheel / transmission... so that’s definitely a recommended mod to make if using for travel... I think the crf uncorked with some of your travel add ons would be a fantastic choice of a bike for a long adv trip. My previous bikes have been 690 and a 701 brutally capable for fast track stuff, but honestly for an off road biased trip such as the TET I’d probably be even happier with a lighter more agile 450. 20kg in the trails does make a difference
I bought the CRF for 6788,- £ new, can‘t resist for this price. Only thing i did not like is the seat. It is narrow and hard as a rock. So have to spend another 350,- for a Seat Concepts Comfort XL. I think it is also hard but a lot wider. Maybe there will be a Seat from you, so i could buy in the UK.😃
I'm a bit later here, but man this is a good Video! Two Moto-Journalists calmly talking about Bikes for more than 10 minutes. One seemingly actually listening to the other. And both consider their own subjectivity and explain their background. 🙏That's strong, I thing
what year is that 450exc? I have an 08 450exc and love it!
Its a 2013. I myself had a 530 from 2008, and loved that too..
I was leaning 450 or 500 EXC and ended up pulling the trigger on a 450L. I am waiting on the new race ECU and then I will install the FMF pipe and header and start ripping around on this machine. So pumped!
The background music is TOO LOUD. I can't hear what the guys are saying.
Bad audio output on your end buddy. Just watch the entire video with earbuds and not once was the music volume an issue.
Have watched/listened this probably 10 times...love this chat format...would love to see more of this on other bikes and adv topics.
Have you got amnesia
Really appreciate that honesty, Í want my bike to win, so I was like grrr'. Means a lots. I love that I felt you gave the Honda a chance!
Now that we have CRF450RL (in the US), KTM came out with 450 EXC-F, Yamaha with with 450F and Suzuki with RMX 450...competition is getting intense but its a good day for customers!
Great video guys. I own a WR250R and considering an "upgrade" to a CRF450L. It's so weird how the 450L is 25 hp in Europe, but 45 hp in USA. That's such a huge difference. As you say the 25 hp version is "electronically strangled". The Honda shop near me in Australia said they could do the power mod before delivery, so I think most people here in Australia will opt for the 45 hp version, for $250 extra. Do you think your review would be any different, if you had the 45 hp version, which is a lot closer to the KTM.
100% yes. I think I'd probably think the Honda was as close to perfect as I would ever expect to get for a current bike to suit my needs (except for those service intervals and a Seat Concepts seat!).
Very very interesting review of the bikes. Also love the drone shots. Hopefully look forward to more reviews from you.
Great conversation. Thank you. I would like to add that 2017 and newer EXCFs (250, 350, or the 500) are about 40-45 lb. (20 kg) lighter than the 450L in fully fueled and stock condition. Having said that the EXCFs don't have a subframe so probably much less suitable for adventuring. I also would like to add a comment about the KTM service intervals. I don't race my 2017 250 EXCF, it has done almost 10 000 km and 210 hours. I've checked the valves twice and they are mint. I change the oil about every 1000 km. In my experience so far, the KTM service intervals are race intervals. I am considering adding the 450L as a lightweight adventure bike.
Actually, Honda advertises wet weight where ktm advertises dry weight. Big different, you’re talking 20 pounds with that distinction
As far as servicing, it depends totally on the amount of dust that the bike is in as far as engine oil changing and most of the time just a filter change will extend the amount of oil usage. After all, oil doesn't lose viscosity, it just gets dirty and needs to be cleaned and replaced when it is low. Fair interview on these two products. I'm in the U.S. and we have the CRF 450L that has more power and as the KTM they have more power over here as well but the Honda is wining more races on the flat track than the KTM is, so I would buy a Honda before the KTM.
No oil does need to be replaced. Go check out any oil analysis videos on youtube.
th-cam.com/video/8sIxaqyDfuk/w-d-xo.html
This is a video of CRF450l at a 1000 mile oil change. Some good info there. Wish there were more people trying out 1.5k - 3k mile change just to see what happens.
As for why to change oil, here are some, not all, of the reasons why: The clutch and other parts of the engine wear out if theres rough use (like slipping of the clutch). This introduces metal particles that wear on the engine. Also the oil itself does wear out. As the oil breaks down, they form acidic compounds in it, which is obviously not good for the engine. Thus the oil itself has alkaline additives in it to combat this process. The measure of amount of alkaline substance in it is the TBN number. I think you need a TBN number of >1. Most oils' TBN starts at around 5 - 15.
The Honda has a ton of crap you do not need, that you can take off and get the weight down. I'm talking 25 LBs of junk. That is free performance. It is far superior to the Husky FE350S which is what I had. Way more motor, stock suspension is by far better. I do not dump money into my bikes. I ride them stock and just keep them in perfect condition, with fresh tires, chhains and sprockets and other wearing items. That being said, I replaced the ECU $700 US. This has to be done. The bike ran like crap stock. It ran very hot and stalled out easier than any boke I ever had. The fan has not ran since thenew ECU and I ran a 60 mile, tight technical songle track recently and the bike is very good. I also ride a KTM 250SX 2 stroke and think the Honda is definitely slower but not much. For ADV touring as long as there is no extended road sections this bike is very good.
Pretty technical stuff?!?! For a 75 year old..... maybe.
But would you buy that honda off them rather than give it back?
Yes, I would. For me it's my perfect bike.
Great video chaps. It seems the 450L with the ecu to release its full power would be a great allround bike for adventures and trails.
Superb video, very comprehensive and informative. All the trademark editing splendour from Greg coupled with some very refreshing honesty made this a great watch. Given the passions that get stirred by the CRF vs KTM debate, I'd anticipate some vigorous 'opinion' to result. Personally, I think there's far more important things to get worked up about. Horses for courses, vote with your wallet/credit card and be happy with your choice and have fun.
Oh, and I need Noel to build me a cabin!
+1 on the Cabin...
I'm looking at a crf450l and have pondered the ktm450/500. Only thing that keeps me from getting the ktm is that parts prices are quite a bit more than honda. Everything has to be from the dealer for ktm it seems like. I can get an aftermarket top end rebuild for a honda no problem but I can't find any aftermarket top end kits for ktm 4 strokes. I know you should go with oem but an oem honda piston is ~$230 and ktm is like $400. The ktm is probably a better bike but it lacks the road-ability that the honda has. Honda has the rubber filled swingarm and more of a cush drive.
I also see lots of old xr650's still running around and I rarely ever see an early 2000's ktm on the road cause parts for them are scarce so I wonder what parts will be like in 10-15 year for the new ktm's when they change their engines every 2-3 years? I think the ktm will cost more per mile than the honda.
So where does the mighty DRZ-400S sit (set up similarly as these 2 steeds - air box mod and jetted - stock pipe - stock fuel tank but similar range to these two tested - Magadans and minimal rack - small windscreen - hand guards, bash plate - lighter weight battery - low seat concepts saddle) maybe 8-10kg's heavier than these 2 all in - consider greater road distances - think western US - posted road speed limits of 75 mph and 150-200 miles to the next long trail section - I have 14,000 miles on my DRZ - do all my own meticulous maintenance - should I spend the $ to get the Honda CRF450L (US version), look at something else entirely or ride the DRZ until it dies ... I'm short - 173cm - ride alone most of the time and have intermediate + off road skill - as an example I would attempt the H trail in the video solo without hesitation on the DRZ - came from a DR650 and found it restricted my adventurous nature off road - kept getting in to trouble riding alone with the weight - any opinion appreciated given Dave's DRZ experience - great video Greg - in for a podcast if it happens ...
This is a simple question to answer. If the DRZ is in good condition and reliable then stick with it. I think that the CRF450l is very much a high-tech successor to the DRZ. It does everything the DRZ does, but just a little better (except the service intervals!). You might say that the DRZ would sit really well between the CRF450l and CRF250l.
If you really have to have more fuel economy or a more relaxed top speed or better suspension or a quieter ride then yes, the CRF will do all of that...but, the DRZ is a great trail bike. It's superbly reliable, can have a kick start and has a far better service interval.
Truthfully, if I could get a new DRZ 'E' model and sort the suspension vs. a CRF450l...it'd be a tough decision that'd keep me awake at night.
When the time comes for the DRZ to hit the bike graveyard in the sky I think you'd feel right at home on the CRF, but for me I'd stick with what you have right now.
Thank you for sharing the wisdom! Will be on the DRZ for many more miles - more $ for AS riding suit! Truly appreciate the response - cheers!
The half power is a bummer!
I love the CRF450L but I’d prefer to go riding with Greg...Dave smile buddy 🤗
You're not the first person to mention my lack of smiles in my life. I like to think that I'm doing a lot of smiling inside...!
Excellent video gents. Not in the market for either but a lot of the points you raise are relevant for anyone considering what bike to buy. Am building an ‘adventurised’ DRZ400 at the moment as it suits what I want to do and will be heading out on the UK and Europe TET later in the year. Keep up the good work :)
Really hope there will be a crf 450l rally version
How often do you have to change oil on the CRF450l after the way you are riding the bike?
I know it says 600 miles, but that surely can be stretched?
Honest real world review but do not see where the comparison between these bikes is, the KTM is to quote KTM “ready to race” where as the Honda has a much more relaxed geometry a trail bike in the truest sense. So for me even though both bikes look similar they from very different ends of the spectrum. I don’t think you could even compare the Honda to the 690/701 the power difference is huge whereas the weight difference is similar to the two bikes here in standard trim. I think it’s safe to say Honda once again has produced another good motorcycle but it will still come down to the elephant in the room why oh why did they strangle the power from this bike with the 40 bhp this would be a completely different ball game
Peter, if they wanted to sell the CRF450l in the EU as fully road legal bike they had to ensure emissions and noise levels met the required EU regulations. Luckily a few Honda parts and an hours work and you have a full factory 45hp version...
@@adventurespec 1.then why don't Honda sell the kit?
2. How can KTM sell the exc as road legal it's sold all over Europe
@@gnarlybadger690 1. Honda sell the two parts you need to change the spec of the bike from their parts catalogue. and the part numbers are readily available ( I think someone posted them on our last CRF TH-cam review when I bought the bike back from Africa). It's just that running the bike in this trim will theorectically make it fail EU 'MOT' tests.
2. The KTM/Husky bikes are not fully road legal bikes when they are in the trim that you consider 'normal'. When dealers get them they come with lights, indicators, reflectors etc. and a far softer/lower power engine map, this is their true 'Road Legal' state. But, dealers remap them and strip off all the EU regulated bits before you buy a bike from them that actually doesn't pass EU road regulations, but as the UK doesn't test power, noise or emissions during a motorcycle MOT in the UK we can 'get away' with it.
At this point the KTM you probably ride is in a non-road legal 'Enduro/Race off-road' trim, which has a far less strict EU noise/emissions requirement. As an example, in Spain you have to remap each time you 'MOT' so that the bike is put back into road trim if you want to be strictly legal.
To make a like-for-like comparision you'd either have to get your KTM dealer to provide a KTM450 with it's original 'soft' road map or remap the CRF to its unrestricted US form.
The interesting point about this from my perspective is the reason for this difference. KTM sell their bikes as 'ready to race'...but, they can also be road legal if you want (and they have to be for Enduro use). Whereas Honda say that the CRF is a road legal bike and it can be used off-road if you want.
Ironically this captures the difference between the bikes brilliantly is reflected in the underlying theme of the entire review above!
@@adventurespec wow thanks for the info brought my KTM new from an official KTM dealership didn't have anything like indicators or the switch gear for them. Really surprising about the Honda puts it in a different light and shows how little I know about it, wonder how much the parts will cost added on to the £9500 price tag.
Knowing that Honda has obviously brought this bike into the UK covering the whole European market rather than country is understandable, I knew we were leaving the EU for a reason 😁 have you thought about informing the Prime minister maybe she could use it as part of her Brexit strategy 🤣🤣🤣
You shouldn't be able to walk faster up a bridleway than a bike... that's not a test
Yes a bit long, but i was left wanting more! AWSOME Analysis of two great motorcycles.
Fantastic review and discussion guys. Certainly puts the CRF450L on the list of bikes to consider. You should of mentioned that the CRF450L only needs 1.1L of oil (+filter), which is not too expensive for the type of adventure trail riding you guys do.
Great video, you've addressed lots of my niggles about the CRF as a potential weekend-trailbike-that's-good-for-the-TET-too. I'd love to see a follow-up with an uncorked bike though.
Fantastic video with lots of great insights. You guys should do bike reviews!
So, the Honda is 10 kg heavier than the 450 KTM, and we all agree weight doesn't matter. The KTM 690 is 20 kg heavier (much of which is a bigger tank making the wet weight higher, more like 10 kg once you fit a long range tank to the Honda) than the Honda, and we can all agree that weight is very important...
I actually think they're all tanks, I ride a 200exc
gasdive 😂
A lot of the "weight" people feel is in the engine size and frame geometry. The XR650R is lighter than a DRZ400 but everyone calls the 650 the big red pig and people say it tires them out on single track. And there definitely is such a thing as too much off idle torque lunging a bike forward that will make it feel heavier because it's more difficult to place, turn and control.
Very well put opinion on big bikes on the TET, I ride a 1200gs on the TET, and finished 2nd in the GS Trophy world championships, but agree with you completely. Its how I always describe it to people, there’s a sliding scale of bikes from trials bikes to big Adventure bikes, where do you want to be on that comes down to your choice and needs. Great video 😊
Ide love a lighter adventure bike over my xt660z... But I can get up most hills and manage most green lane... I have massive fuel range and 6k miles between service intervals... Its hard to give it up!
Waiting for a WR450R or maybe the CRF450L Rally if the engine proves itself worthy for round the world travel.
Make comparision after 10 years of hard use please. Both good but.....
Be a good laugh to see one of the bigger adventure bikes try the technical gully :-)
"gully" that's a wet river bed! :)
Many thanks for the vid, yes I did stick with it>-) Fair and honest assessment. very good point about the crf service interval and the hp difference. I hadn't thought about that. puts a different perspective on the crf now. many thanks for taking the time. cheers.
I was torn between a Husky, KTM and the 450L, having decided to change my 250L. After thinking about what I wanted from the bike, I went with the 450L and have no regrets. You certainly wouldn’t think it only has 25BHP, for my purpose it doesn’t need anymore. As for price, plenty of dealers willing to do deals, I paid less for the 450L than I would have for the KTM/Husky.
You paid less because it's not the same quality, don't get me wrong a Honda is a honda, good solid platform, but the ktm, husky is top notch, just sayin, take care, and ride safe....
I guess it depends what you mean by the word ‘quality’.
For me, Honda’s build quality and reliability are second to none. Hence why they offer a 2 year warranty, KTM/Husky offer 30 days or 6 months?).
Horses for courses, if I wanted an MX track bike, then I would have chosen a KTM/Husky, but as I wanted a Dual Sports, I chose the Honda.
If we all liked the same thing, the world would be a boring place.
Nick Hants I’m with you on this. The honda is a more modern platform than the venerable drz. I don’t need the super high performance of the euro bikes. It’s all in what you want/need from the bikes.
Great video guys. A very comprehensive assessment indeed and it just reaffirms my opinion that the Honda is a legend in the making and a real game changer.
Need a better match up..2 different bikes ..
You guys should have someone from the US mail you a proper ECU.
No need to send one over. You can open it up. The problem is that riding it on the street becomes illegal then
How much is the fine?
@@mcriser First of all you loose insurance coverage because you changed the power. So every accident you cause is on you.
-Driving/riding without operating license is ~50€
-Excessive noise ~10€
-Exceeding of emissions ~60€
And the killer is driving without insurance. Which, depending on the case can be up to 180 days wage fine or up to 6 months in prison.
Of course this is the worst that could happen, but it's not unheard of...
Oh and since you will exceed the noise limits it's quite likely that they will have your bike towed.
These are the rules for Germany mind you
@@mcriser Oh and 1 point on your license for the fine exceeding 60€ plus op to 6 points on your license for riding without insurance.
@8 points you loose your license for at least 6 months and have to take a special test (Medical Psychological exam, which is quite hard to pass) in order for you to reapply to get a new license.
By the way getting a license in Germany takes a couple of months and costs around 2000-2500€
In Arizona we ride two stroke dirtbike’s down the street with a tag on the back.
Nice Honda crf 450L and 450X
What are your thoughts on the 450l replacing my 690 enduro and 300xcw? Is it up to the task of an occasional enduro at race pace?
With the US spec ECU (45hp) if you're fairly fit (it is 10kg heavier than the KTM in race trim) then it'd be great for a few Enduros a year. I don't think you'd win against a similar level of rider to yourself on a KTM450, but on the ride home you'd be laughing!
For the rest of your time on the local trails or out for longer trail trips it'd be great.
I'd say test ride one first if you can, but my gut feeling would be that as an occasional racer it'd be a good swap.
I love the idea of testing it against the CB500x, here’s a plan:
TET ride
CRF450
310gs (Rally Raid)
CB500 (Rally Raid)
KTM790 Adventure R
Yamaha Tenere 700
KTM 1090 Adventure R
BMW 1200gs
With good riders on, particularly on the big stuff, to see what they are really capable of against one another.
Now that would be an epic test 😎
There are a LOT of bikes there! Perhaps we could split it into two. The top 3 plus an Enfield Himalaya and then the bottom 4?
Great vid. One thing I could say is you should really strive to keep at least one foot on a peg at all times. I know it can be tough in a really rocky segment like this, but if you're quick you can switch back and forth. This will give you so much more control over the bike. When you have both feet off, you will not have much control over the bike anymore, and will be at the mercy of the track.